Publish to Newswire
Add an EventFrom the Open-Publishing Calendar
From the Open-Publishing Newswire
Indybay Feature
Reasoning for the denouncement of the Christian Right Wing's BattleCry youth gatherings
The government doesn't need to start a military draft when they have the Christian Right Wing busy recruiting for them.
Reasoning for the denouncement of the Right Wing Christian BattleCry Youth Gatherings
*** For Immediate Release ***
By Debra Schaffer Hubert – dshubert [at] gmail.com
There is no military draft yet because the Christian Right is doing the recruiting on behalf of the government.
Ron Luce, and his co-conspirators in the far right wing Christian fundamentalist camps are out there busily glorifying war as if it is the same as godliness. Ron Luce is applauding the Bush Administration’s atrocities when he brings Navy Seals on stage and talks about how noble it is to be a soldier.
BattleCry is so filled with military metaphor and rhetoric that you would think it was a giant pre boot camp designed to entice troubled youth trying to do good in the world to join the military. Sounds like Nazi Germany in the 1930s.
Christian rock bands are used to entice the youth to come to these events. Otherwise, I doubt they would be willing to go. It is like being at a rock concert one moment with feeling happy and open, then a speaker is brought in to brainwash you.
Virtually all of the propaganda used in the BattleCry literature is utilizing military rhetoric; from a hummer sporting a red revolution flag on stage, to dog tags, posters with youth carrying automatic weapons and Navy Seals giving Christian testimony and making “BattlePlans”. Militarism is the epitome of misogyny.
My question is this; if Ron Luce claims he is trying to guide the youth around an evil culture, then why does he openly support the US military war machine with its dumping of weaponized radioactive uranium, known by the misleading name the Pentagon gave it, Depleted Uranium, all over an entire continent, rendering it uninhabitable forever. This, in the name of God?
The BattleCry Christian youth movement is supported by big money from the Christian right wing Fundamentalist industrial complex. They are not only promoting war and thereby military recruitment, but also homophobia and severe sexism by advocating the relinquishment of the right of sovereignty of women over their own bodies.
They have proclaimed they are the definitive deciders as to what God wants and they are furiously working their literal biblical interpretations into the government.
Since the early nineties through the leadership of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Ralph Reed’s Moral Majority and Christian Coalition, the Christian right has taken working control of the Republican party and now the House, Senate, judiciary and Executive branches of government. It is the far Christian right, with the common thread of the belief of the inclusion of the military state with free market corporate influence, which is the type of Christianity in question here.
These leaders are the fathers of the BattleCry movement. Jerry Falwell himself is a guest at BattleCry events. Remember Jerry, he’s the one who said 9/11 is the fault of the gays and feminists?
These Christians believe we are in the end times as prophesized literally, that wars are inevitable, that they must fight Satan and become Christ’s soldiers in their own lives and in the world. They are creating a demented circular argument and self fulfilling prophesies.
The Bush administration being Christian Fundamentalists, have made sure that all of their appointments, if not neoconservative, are persons of Christian or Catholic right wing ideology. Even Condoleezza Rice is upfront about her endtimes beliefs saying in a church in Louisiana after hurricane Katrina, that the hurricane was a sign that Jesus was coming. It is the Christian right who put Bush on his throne, not Ralph Nadar.
It is no mistake that they are taking to the steps of city halls. These people mean to take their biblical values deep into the government. Religious doctrine trumps personal freedom. I’d say this would make us a Theocracy, wouldn’t you. Think about it, when religion ruled the world they called it the dark ages.
In March, before the San Francisco BattleCry gathering, San Francisco Board of Supervisor Tom Ammiano and California State Assemblyman Mark Leno proclaimed an official citywide condemnation of “Battlecry” on the basis of the homophobic rhetoric on its website. The SF Chronicle denounced their condemnation saying we were not being tolerant. Ammiano and Leno are right. The fundamentalist Christian “homosexuality is wrong” stance clearly demonstrates an adamant lack of toleration of sexual diversity and promotes a hate filled public homophobic backlash. They are contaminating the commons with hate inducing attitudes. Our society is in extreme danger as a consequence. Homophobic hate is way up, just ask any school student.
I heard it over and over when I spent a week on a cruise with them and from going to their churches and talking to them, the government is put in power by god and if you question the government you are questioning God. So don’t.
This type of indoctrination insures a free ride to all kinds of governmental abuses from dumping tons of weaponized radioactive genocidal uranium, to the unauthorized and secret wiretapping of millions of citizens, exactly like a KGB, to the abolition of Habeas Corpus, to torture committed by the US military. This behavior of the Christian right makes Nazi Germany look like a side show! Let’s fact it, The Right Wing Christians are the western world’s religious extremists.
The effort we are undertaking of confronting this monstrous wolf in sheep’s clothing is a controversial one because we are challenging the youth and we are challenging organized religion.
People generally think it is part of freedom of religion to be able to believe whatever you want. Ron Luce talks as if he is offering redemption by believing in this hate filled militaristic view of Christianity. Then he makes us out to be intolerant and ridiculous for taking a stand.
We would like to make it clear; we are not suggesting infringing on their religious beliefs. They can have their beliefs, but they cannot force them on us and the world. They make up about 3% of the population. They do not believe in a pluralistic democracy.
What we are saying is if they are going to use your religion to wreak havoc and destruction on the world, we stand adamantly and forthrightly against it. We will not candy coat our opposition. We will not condone sexual orientation prejudice and unrealistic and destructive abstinence only sex based education. Abstinence only sex education is a proven abysmal failure. They are pumping this up inside BattleCry, scaring the kids into thinking if they have any kind of sex except as sanctioned through marriage, they are sure to get an STD.
We will not condone the glorification of war and brainwashing of our youth, fooling them that they are fighting for God. We will not scare our children into thinking it is the end of the world because it is God’s will.
If it is the end of the world it is because the Bush administration through the leadership of the Christian right is on a global crusade claiming to be a regent for God, of establishing economic and environmental dominance by way of this brand of militaristic Christianity. We will not stand idly by and watch, pretending the Luce and his movement are meant to help society. Talk about a wolf in sheep’s clothing, this is the defining example.
If you want to use it for good, to work for nuclear non proliferation, for tolerance, for realistic sex education, to feed and care for the poor and disadvantaged, we stand right with you, but if you use it for oppressive and militaristic ends and claim you are righteous, we stand squarely in opposition.
See http://www.theocracywatch.org for an in-depth analysis of this dangerous vein of Christianity and http://www.warresisters.org for the reasoning for a commitment to nonviolence and radical pacifism.
*** For Immediate Release ***
By Debra Schaffer Hubert – dshubert [at] gmail.com
There is no military draft yet because the Christian Right is doing the recruiting on behalf of the government.
Ron Luce, and his co-conspirators in the far right wing Christian fundamentalist camps are out there busily glorifying war as if it is the same as godliness. Ron Luce is applauding the Bush Administration’s atrocities when he brings Navy Seals on stage and talks about how noble it is to be a soldier.
BattleCry is so filled with military metaphor and rhetoric that you would think it was a giant pre boot camp designed to entice troubled youth trying to do good in the world to join the military. Sounds like Nazi Germany in the 1930s.
Christian rock bands are used to entice the youth to come to these events. Otherwise, I doubt they would be willing to go. It is like being at a rock concert one moment with feeling happy and open, then a speaker is brought in to brainwash you.
Virtually all of the propaganda used in the BattleCry literature is utilizing military rhetoric; from a hummer sporting a red revolution flag on stage, to dog tags, posters with youth carrying automatic weapons and Navy Seals giving Christian testimony and making “BattlePlans”. Militarism is the epitome of misogyny.
My question is this; if Ron Luce claims he is trying to guide the youth around an evil culture, then why does he openly support the US military war machine with its dumping of weaponized radioactive uranium, known by the misleading name the Pentagon gave it, Depleted Uranium, all over an entire continent, rendering it uninhabitable forever. This, in the name of God?
The BattleCry Christian youth movement is supported by big money from the Christian right wing Fundamentalist industrial complex. They are not only promoting war and thereby military recruitment, but also homophobia and severe sexism by advocating the relinquishment of the right of sovereignty of women over their own bodies.
They have proclaimed they are the definitive deciders as to what God wants and they are furiously working their literal biblical interpretations into the government.
Since the early nineties through the leadership of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Ralph Reed’s Moral Majority and Christian Coalition, the Christian right has taken working control of the Republican party and now the House, Senate, judiciary and Executive branches of government. It is the far Christian right, with the common thread of the belief of the inclusion of the military state with free market corporate influence, which is the type of Christianity in question here.
These leaders are the fathers of the BattleCry movement. Jerry Falwell himself is a guest at BattleCry events. Remember Jerry, he’s the one who said 9/11 is the fault of the gays and feminists?
These Christians believe we are in the end times as prophesized literally, that wars are inevitable, that they must fight Satan and become Christ’s soldiers in their own lives and in the world. They are creating a demented circular argument and self fulfilling prophesies.
The Bush administration being Christian Fundamentalists, have made sure that all of their appointments, if not neoconservative, are persons of Christian or Catholic right wing ideology. Even Condoleezza Rice is upfront about her endtimes beliefs saying in a church in Louisiana after hurricane Katrina, that the hurricane was a sign that Jesus was coming. It is the Christian right who put Bush on his throne, not Ralph Nadar.
It is no mistake that they are taking to the steps of city halls. These people mean to take their biblical values deep into the government. Religious doctrine trumps personal freedom. I’d say this would make us a Theocracy, wouldn’t you. Think about it, when religion ruled the world they called it the dark ages.
In March, before the San Francisco BattleCry gathering, San Francisco Board of Supervisor Tom Ammiano and California State Assemblyman Mark Leno proclaimed an official citywide condemnation of “Battlecry” on the basis of the homophobic rhetoric on its website. The SF Chronicle denounced their condemnation saying we were not being tolerant. Ammiano and Leno are right. The fundamentalist Christian “homosexuality is wrong” stance clearly demonstrates an adamant lack of toleration of sexual diversity and promotes a hate filled public homophobic backlash. They are contaminating the commons with hate inducing attitudes. Our society is in extreme danger as a consequence. Homophobic hate is way up, just ask any school student.
I heard it over and over when I spent a week on a cruise with them and from going to their churches and talking to them, the government is put in power by god and if you question the government you are questioning God. So don’t.
This type of indoctrination insures a free ride to all kinds of governmental abuses from dumping tons of weaponized radioactive genocidal uranium, to the unauthorized and secret wiretapping of millions of citizens, exactly like a KGB, to the abolition of Habeas Corpus, to torture committed by the US military. This behavior of the Christian right makes Nazi Germany look like a side show! Let’s fact it, The Right Wing Christians are the western world’s religious extremists.
The effort we are undertaking of confronting this monstrous wolf in sheep’s clothing is a controversial one because we are challenging the youth and we are challenging organized religion.
People generally think it is part of freedom of religion to be able to believe whatever you want. Ron Luce talks as if he is offering redemption by believing in this hate filled militaristic view of Christianity. Then he makes us out to be intolerant and ridiculous for taking a stand.
We would like to make it clear; we are not suggesting infringing on their religious beliefs. They can have their beliefs, but they cannot force them on us and the world. They make up about 3% of the population. They do not believe in a pluralistic democracy.
What we are saying is if they are going to use your religion to wreak havoc and destruction on the world, we stand adamantly and forthrightly against it. We will not candy coat our opposition. We will not condone sexual orientation prejudice and unrealistic and destructive abstinence only sex based education. Abstinence only sex education is a proven abysmal failure. They are pumping this up inside BattleCry, scaring the kids into thinking if they have any kind of sex except as sanctioned through marriage, they are sure to get an STD.
We will not condone the glorification of war and brainwashing of our youth, fooling them that they are fighting for God. We will not scare our children into thinking it is the end of the world because it is God’s will.
If it is the end of the world it is because the Bush administration through the leadership of the Christian right is on a global crusade claiming to be a regent for God, of establishing economic and environmental dominance by way of this brand of militaristic Christianity. We will not stand idly by and watch, pretending the Luce and his movement are meant to help society. Talk about a wolf in sheep’s clothing, this is the defining example.
If you want to use it for good, to work for nuclear non proliferation, for tolerance, for realistic sex education, to feed and care for the poor and disadvantaged, we stand right with you, but if you use it for oppressive and militaristic ends and claim you are righteous, we stand squarely in opposition.
See http://www.theocracywatch.org for an in-depth analysis of this dangerous vein of Christianity and http://www.warresisters.org for the reasoning for a commitment to nonviolence and radical pacifism.
For more information:
http://www.theocracywatch.org
Add Your Comments
Comments
(Hide Comments)
Ron Luce is an agent of the billionaire consensus and Battle Cry is totally integral to their effort to engineer full-blown fascism here. It's OBVIOUS
article by Sunsara Taylor:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/05/1823094.php
She's the one that appeared opposite him on the O'Reilly factor, and this is her report on attending the Battlecry show in Philadelphia this last Friday...
http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/05/1823094.php
She's the one that appeared opposite him on the O'Reilly factor, and this is her report on attending the Battlecry show in Philadelphia this last Friday...
I read your article and I must say that you have been misinformed by someone or have misunderstood the actions of Ron Luce and the BattleCry organization. I will try to go through and answer all the things you have pointed out.
First of all, Christians are not recruiting on behalf of the government. BattleCry uses military rhetoric as a metaphor of the spiritual realm and not the physical realm. If you have been to one of his events, you would know that he does not even talk about that stuff. The closest he gets to mentioning the government is praying for them and standing up for what we believe in. Bringing on a Navy Seal to tell about his experiences as a soldier does not mean that Ron Luce is applauding the Bush Administation's atrocities. In fact, I live about 15 minutes away from Ron Luce and have discussed political issues with him only to find that he partly agrees with you. The atricities you mention, he does not agree with but as far as wanting to provide assistance to other countries, he does agree with. That alone answers your question
"if Ron Luce claims he is trying to guide the youth around an evil culture, then why does he openly support the US military war machine with its dumping of weaponized radioactive uranium, known by the misleading name the Pentagon gave it, Depleted Uranium, all over an entire continent, rendering it uninhabitable forever. This, in the name of God? "
When you find me the quote where he openly admits this, post again, but he never will because it is not true. Ron Luce guides the youth around a spiritual evil culture which does not refer to the U.S. war machine.
This first section of miltarianism of Ron Luce's message can be summed up in the fact that you midunderstood spiritual and physical warfare.
The next thing to answer would be supposed homophobia and sexism of Christians. We are not homophobic as a lot of people would like to think. We do not shun homosexuals but we do not agree with homosexual couples calling themselves married. I think if two people of the same gender want to have a union, good for them, but it is not called marriage and should not be. Marriage has always been, in more religions than Christianity, the union between one man and one woman. This belief, however, does not cause us to hate homosexuals. I have several friends who are homosexual. Just because I disagree with their beliefs does not mean I hate them. As far as sexism goes, we do not want to take away any rights for a women to have. I am not quite sure what you are specifically refering to but if you talk about abortion, it is also the right of the fetus to decide whether it dies or not. A women does not have the right to kill an organism that will turn into a human being.
I hope that answers homosexuals and abortion.
As far as prophesing the end of the world, I do not really believe what some of the Christian leaders believe but calling something punishment to bad people is not to big of a deal. It's just what they believe. Yes, it may be a bit extreme but I think calling Christians Nazis is also extreme. Once 6 million homosexuals have been starved, gassed and burned by the Christians, then your comparison can be logical, but until then, comparing Christians to Nazis is an insult to the 6 million Jews who were killed by the Nazis.
When it comes to questioning authority due to their position implemented by God, Christians do not always agree. You stated that we think that questioning the gov. is like questioning God when in fact it is not always true. We believe that people who are put into power should do the will of God, but unfortunately, some of them do not. If we thought that questioning all people in power would be questioning God then why are we standing up to the gov. for what we believe in?
You also label Christians as the western world's religious extremists which is also farfetched. Take Islam for example. If they were to enter the U.S., the first people to go would be the intellectuals and the homosexuals. They kill people. Innocent people. Although they do not think that intellectuals and homosexuals are innocent, Christians do. Even though I may not agree with your ideals or the ideals of homosexuals, I still respect you as an individual and know that you are innocent. If you think Christians are crazy, just wait until the extremist Muslims take over. AT this point you might label me as someone who hate Muslims but I still understand that some of them are innocent. I do not judge people by what they believe but what they do. An innocent Muslim family who simply lives day to day without any harm is someone I can get along with, but as far as a suicide bomber goes, I do not really like them.
You obviously believe that a pluralistic democracy should be the norm of the world when you say,
"They can have their beliefs, but they cannot force them on us and the world. They make up about 3% of the population. They do not believe in a pluralistic democracy."
This is great since Christians make up the largest percent of the world. I do not know where your stats came from but Christians actually make up 33% of the world's population, followed by Islam with 19% of the world's population. This, according to your words, means that Christians are not imposing upon the world but that others are imposing upon the Christians.
Having sex before marriage is something that Christians do not agree with, as you pointed out. Even though we teach people of the Christian faith not to do that, it does not mean that the world is being pumped up with a guarunteed STD when having sex before marriage. What Ron Luce is doing would be the equivilent of a boss teaching his employees the rules. All religions have rules that are set out for them and Christianity happens to talk about abstinence. If others do not want to listen, then don't but we are not forcing anyone to do anything.
Ron is also not brainwashing anyone. If someone chooses not to be a Christian, then that is their choice. If someone does choose to be a Christian it is their choice. If a waiter tells me that a chocolate covered strawberry is good and I decide to eat it, it doesn't mean that the waiter brainwashed me, it's just that he told me the benefits of eating it and it was good. If I decided not to, it was my choice.
The last issue you tackle is Ron Luce "pretending" to help society and you won't sit around idly and watch. The truth is, BattleCry was meant as a defence rather than an attack. You may think that we are imposing views upon the world when in fact, others are imposing things that are not good in the Christian faith. In order to keep our faith and be supported by others, BattleCry was started to spiritually counter the attack of evil and defend ourselves from worldly ideas that we think are hindering our faith.
Overall, everything you state is a big misunderstanding, ergo the title, "misunderstanding". All the comments put out by non-Christians have not been to Christian events and the people who have think that they are imposing it upon the world when it was really just the people who attended the event, an event in which they chose to come. Go back and read what is
not put into our history text books. Our founding fathers established this country with a church and state separation. That the state would be separated from the church and not the church separated from the state. Unfortunately, today's society seems to think the later. Once we remember this concept in which this great country was built upon, people will continue to bicker about who is imposing who and what needs to be done about it.
First of all, Christians are not recruiting on behalf of the government. BattleCry uses military rhetoric as a metaphor of the spiritual realm and not the physical realm. If you have been to one of his events, you would know that he does not even talk about that stuff. The closest he gets to mentioning the government is praying for them and standing up for what we believe in. Bringing on a Navy Seal to tell about his experiences as a soldier does not mean that Ron Luce is applauding the Bush Administation's atrocities. In fact, I live about 15 minutes away from Ron Luce and have discussed political issues with him only to find that he partly agrees with you. The atricities you mention, he does not agree with but as far as wanting to provide assistance to other countries, he does agree with. That alone answers your question
"if Ron Luce claims he is trying to guide the youth around an evil culture, then why does he openly support the US military war machine with its dumping of weaponized radioactive uranium, known by the misleading name the Pentagon gave it, Depleted Uranium, all over an entire continent, rendering it uninhabitable forever. This, in the name of God? "
When you find me the quote where he openly admits this, post again, but he never will because it is not true. Ron Luce guides the youth around a spiritual evil culture which does not refer to the U.S. war machine.
This first section of miltarianism of Ron Luce's message can be summed up in the fact that you midunderstood spiritual and physical warfare.
The next thing to answer would be supposed homophobia and sexism of Christians. We are not homophobic as a lot of people would like to think. We do not shun homosexuals but we do not agree with homosexual couples calling themselves married. I think if two people of the same gender want to have a union, good for them, but it is not called marriage and should not be. Marriage has always been, in more religions than Christianity, the union between one man and one woman. This belief, however, does not cause us to hate homosexuals. I have several friends who are homosexual. Just because I disagree with their beliefs does not mean I hate them. As far as sexism goes, we do not want to take away any rights for a women to have. I am not quite sure what you are specifically refering to but if you talk about abortion, it is also the right of the fetus to decide whether it dies or not. A women does not have the right to kill an organism that will turn into a human being.
I hope that answers homosexuals and abortion.
As far as prophesing the end of the world, I do not really believe what some of the Christian leaders believe but calling something punishment to bad people is not to big of a deal. It's just what they believe. Yes, it may be a bit extreme but I think calling Christians Nazis is also extreme. Once 6 million homosexuals have been starved, gassed and burned by the Christians, then your comparison can be logical, but until then, comparing Christians to Nazis is an insult to the 6 million Jews who were killed by the Nazis.
When it comes to questioning authority due to their position implemented by God, Christians do not always agree. You stated that we think that questioning the gov. is like questioning God when in fact it is not always true. We believe that people who are put into power should do the will of God, but unfortunately, some of them do not. If we thought that questioning all people in power would be questioning God then why are we standing up to the gov. for what we believe in?
You also label Christians as the western world's religious extremists which is also farfetched. Take Islam for example. If they were to enter the U.S., the first people to go would be the intellectuals and the homosexuals. They kill people. Innocent people. Although they do not think that intellectuals and homosexuals are innocent, Christians do. Even though I may not agree with your ideals or the ideals of homosexuals, I still respect you as an individual and know that you are innocent. If you think Christians are crazy, just wait until the extremist Muslims take over. AT this point you might label me as someone who hate Muslims but I still understand that some of them are innocent. I do not judge people by what they believe but what they do. An innocent Muslim family who simply lives day to day without any harm is someone I can get along with, but as far as a suicide bomber goes, I do not really like them.
You obviously believe that a pluralistic democracy should be the norm of the world when you say,
"They can have their beliefs, but they cannot force them on us and the world. They make up about 3% of the population. They do not believe in a pluralistic democracy."
This is great since Christians make up the largest percent of the world. I do not know where your stats came from but Christians actually make up 33% of the world's population, followed by Islam with 19% of the world's population. This, according to your words, means that Christians are not imposing upon the world but that others are imposing upon the Christians.
Having sex before marriage is something that Christians do not agree with, as you pointed out. Even though we teach people of the Christian faith not to do that, it does not mean that the world is being pumped up with a guarunteed STD when having sex before marriage. What Ron Luce is doing would be the equivilent of a boss teaching his employees the rules. All religions have rules that are set out for them and Christianity happens to talk about abstinence. If others do not want to listen, then don't but we are not forcing anyone to do anything.
Ron is also not brainwashing anyone. If someone chooses not to be a Christian, then that is their choice. If someone does choose to be a Christian it is their choice. If a waiter tells me that a chocolate covered strawberry is good and I decide to eat it, it doesn't mean that the waiter brainwashed me, it's just that he told me the benefits of eating it and it was good. If I decided not to, it was my choice.
The last issue you tackle is Ron Luce "pretending" to help society and you won't sit around idly and watch. The truth is, BattleCry was meant as a defence rather than an attack. You may think that we are imposing views upon the world when in fact, others are imposing things that are not good in the Christian faith. In order to keep our faith and be supported by others, BattleCry was started to spiritually counter the attack of evil and defend ourselves from worldly ideas that we think are hindering our faith.
Overall, everything you state is a big misunderstanding, ergo the title, "misunderstanding". All the comments put out by non-Christians have not been to Christian events and the people who have think that they are imposing it upon the world when it was really just the people who attended the event, an event in which they chose to come. Go back and read what is
not put into our history text books. Our founding fathers established this country with a church and state separation. That the state would be separated from the church and not the church separated from the state. Unfortunately, today's society seems to think the later. Once we remember this concept in which this great country was built upon, people will continue to bicker about who is imposing who and what needs to be done about it.
Everybody who reads Indybay got this far in your PR release, David
"I read your article and I must say that you have been misinformed..."
and then moved on. Go tell it on the mountain.
"I read your article and I must say that you have been misinformed..."
and then moved on. Go tell it on the mountain.
If Christians are as miliant as this essay implies, it appears you have no fear of them. The penis' bowing before the Cruxifix would be a declaration of war if it was Muhammed and Islam being referenced in this fashion. The fact that you are free to bash a religion without fear of retaliation leads me to believe Christians are not the militants you claim them to be. Which means your essay is in fact a lie and you are not credible.
The fact is, nations with a large Christian population offer the most freedoms and free speech to its citizens. You have more freedoms and opportunities to live as you wish in a country with a majority Christian population than any other nation in world. And you are angry about this? If you lived in a country with a majority of Muslims do you think you could have expressed yourself in this manner attacking the Muslim community and displaying penis' worshiping Muhammed?
Your anger is misdirected and you lack knowledge of the internation community. Please study the current world climate and other choices you have. I think you will be thankful to live in country with a Christian majority who you obviously have no fear of--even though you claim they are militants.
The fact is, nations with a large Christian population offer the most freedoms and free speech to its citizens. You have more freedoms and opportunities to live as you wish in a country with a majority Christian population than any other nation in world. And you are angry about this? If you lived in a country with a majority of Muslims do you think you could have expressed yourself in this manner attacking the Muslim community and displaying penis' worshiping Muhammed?
Your anger is misdirected and you lack knowledge of the internation community. Please study the current world climate and other choices you have. I think you will be thankful to live in country with a Christian majority who you obviously have no fear of--even though you claim they are militants.
Yeah, if you're measuring from the bottom w/out an iota of critical thought, you'd say, "Dah, hey, what a grayyyte country we live in, it's not perfect, but there's worse....blah blah blah"
Religion, esp. Christianity (but any supplicative religion) has served the ruling elite to perpetuate this garbage thinking. Don't question, just be grateful, right????
Horseshit.
I question, I critical think, and don't give a shit about Jesus, or any of the hypocrits who claim to be 'saved' by him while they support our war-monger, chickenhawk chimp of a prez, and the neocon/zionist pigs who are running this world into the ground to benefit a few, while basking in the cloak of religion, using rhetoric about "freedom"----those who swallow this pack of lies deserve what they get.
Religion, esp. Christianity (but any supplicative religion) has served the ruling elite to perpetuate this garbage thinking. Don't question, just be grateful, right????
Horseshit.
I question, I critical think, and don't give a shit about Jesus, or any of the hypocrits who claim to be 'saved' by him while they support our war-monger, chickenhawk chimp of a prez, and the neocon/zionist pigs who are running this world into the ground to benefit a few, while basking in the cloak of religion, using rhetoric about "freedom"----those who swallow this pack of lies deserve what they get.
This is what happens when religious people get power and are allowed to run rampant. Religious people are the biggest bunch of hypocrites, liars, morons and evil bastards on the planet. They have a love of war and intelorance and they hate science and reason. Until religion is eradicated from society we will always problems because the cycle of hatred will continue over whose silly "god" is better and powermongers will continue to use nonsense beliefs to control the idiot masses who don't know better.
Another thing why can't religious people (particularly idiotic Christians) keep their stupid idiot beliefs to themselves ? Why do they always feel the need to proselytize and push their beliefs upon everyone else and butt into other people's business ? Not everyone is interested, particularly in the highly liberal Bay Area. Frankly you frakking Christians and frakking Muslims are cut from the same torn cloth and equally screwed up and deserve each other.
Another thing why can't religious people (particularly idiotic Christians) keep their stupid idiot beliefs to themselves ? Why do they always feel the need to proselytize and push their beliefs upon everyone else and butt into other people's business ? Not everyone is interested, particularly in the highly liberal Bay Area. Frankly you frakking Christians and frakking Muslims are cut from the same torn cloth and equally screwed up and deserve each other.
"religious people ... have a love of war and intelorance and they hate science and reason."
Religious feeling per se does not cause someone to have these qualities. I don't think there has ever been a great scientist who didn't have a very spiritual, even (dare I say it?) rapturous feeling about his/her chosen field.
In its most generic sense, 'religion' means a LOT of things
Now if you'd said PATRIARCHAL MONOTHEISM makes people that way, I'd be right on board. It's just very clearly mass insanity. What word other than "insane" best fits people who want the world to end? It's the most brilliant method of brainwashing people into being suicide robots the world has ever seen, that's why states keep pushing it.
Religious feeling per se does not cause someone to have these qualities. I don't think there has ever been a great scientist who didn't have a very spiritual, even (dare I say it?) rapturous feeling about his/her chosen field.
In its most generic sense, 'religion' means a LOT of things
Now if you'd said PATRIARCHAL MONOTHEISM makes people that way, I'd be right on board. It's just very clearly mass insanity. What word other than "insane" best fits people who want the world to end? It's the most brilliant method of brainwashing people into being suicide robots the world has ever seen, that's why states keep pushing it.
On the message boards at the Battlecry website there is a posting asking where"everyone" was...I like to think that Battlecry youth understood that when they create a space of militant evangelism, they understand that the forum they're creating to promote their "spiritual' views is porous and will be entered by those in the Bay Area who have a different view the aims of Christianity. In particular, my hat is off to members of BACORR, Code Pink, WCW, and in particular the Rev. Judy Tergis and Code Pink's Vicki Leidner for organzing amongst the progressive Christian community here in San Francisco. It's worth remembering that this is a political battle, not a spiritual one. For them to counter the antics of Battlecry using a spiritual vision shows true compassion and love.
I was so happy to see progressive Christians and members of other faiths placing themselves on the "frontlines" of this rally in order to remind Christians that spiritual practices are best observed by the willing participant. The shallow worship of the panicked bystander who observes out of fear degrades any religion.
Thank you Rev. Tergis, and members of a coalition that I hope gains in influence and strength! You are to be commended for your showing of generosity and expansive compassion in the face of this conflict.
I was so happy to see progressive Christians and members of other faiths placing themselves on the "frontlines" of this rally in order to remind Christians that spiritual practices are best observed by the willing participant. The shallow worship of the panicked bystander who observes out of fear degrades any religion.
Thank you Rev. Tergis, and members of a coalition that I hope gains in influence and strength! You are to be commended for your showing of generosity and expansive compassion in the face of this conflict.
Of course we know you're trying to overturn it, but a woman does have the legal right to terminate a pregnancy should she so choose.
Ron Luce, Jerry Falwell and their theocracy will not change that, any more than your bigotry towards gay marriages and gay families will mean they are not entitled to exist.
Ron Luce, Jerry Falwell and their theocracy will not change that, any more than your bigotry towards gay marriages and gay families will mean they are not entitled to exist.
That little gem is buried in the above missive from the Battlecry practitioner...a fetus should decide whether it lives or dies.
This is so jaw dropping, so absurd, so...it ranks up there with Holocaust denial in terms of incorporating pure unreasoned fantasy into an explicitly political (not spiritual, I agree with Elizabeth 100%) argument.
Fascinating, but disturbingly so.
This is so jaw dropping, so absurd, so...it ranks up there with Holocaust denial in terms of incorporating pure unreasoned fantasy into an explicitly political (not spiritual, I agree with Elizabeth 100%) argument.
Fascinating, but disturbingly so.
What kind of intellectual high ground is it taking to portray your opponents as penises in a "politcal cartoon"? How is this not deeply bigoted and offensive towards your opponents? Offense can be taken in both directions, guys...if a Christian put up this cartoon with the characters being Islamists or Gays, wouldn't you get angry or offended on their behalf? Why is it OK to bash Christians but not anyone else?
"Everybody who reads Indybay got this far in your PR release, David
"I read your article and I must say that you have been misinformed..."
and then moved on. Go tell it on the mountain."
Isn't this kind of a hypocritical statement? Couldn't I say the EXACT same thing about the article we are commenting on, only from the other side? Its like saying that I wont respond to such-and-such a statement because I believe it to be untrue, rather than actually looking at what was said. If you assume it to be false, then you'll always get the answer you're looking for. At least read with an open mind. THEN, if you still think its untrue, at least you considered it and came to a conclusion.
"Everybody who reads Indybay got this far in your PR release, David
"I read your article and I must say that you have been misinformed..."
and then moved on. Go tell it on the mountain."
Isn't this kind of a hypocritical statement? Couldn't I say the EXACT same thing about the article we are commenting on, only from the other side? Its like saying that I wont respond to such-and-such a statement because I believe it to be untrue, rather than actually looking at what was said. If you assume it to be false, then you'll always get the answer you're looking for. At least read with an open mind. THEN, if you still think its untrue, at least you considered it and came to a conclusion.
If Ron Luce is NOT Homophobic, why does he list Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson as supporters of BattleCry? You remember them...
After the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack, (Falwell)... made comments blaming various groups for the attack... When asked why God would allow such an event to happen to America, Falwell said:
"The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way—all of them who have tried to secularize America—I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."
Falwell has also stated (circa 1991):
AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharaoh's charioteers . . . AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Falwell
"On the June 8, 1998 edition of his show, Robertson denounced Orlando, Florida and Disney World for allowing a privately sponsored "Gay Days" weekend. Robertson stated that the acceptance of homosexuality could result in hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, terrorist bombings and "possibly a meteor."[13] The resulting outcry prompted Robertson to return to the topic on June 24, where he quoted the Book of Revelation to support his claims."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson
A Fine Example of the Intolerance of Ron Luce's best buddies!
After the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack, (Falwell)... made comments blaming various groups for the attack... When asked why God would allow such an event to happen to America, Falwell said:
"The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way—all of them who have tried to secularize America—I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."
Falwell has also stated (circa 1991):
AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharaoh's charioteers . . . AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Falwell
"On the June 8, 1998 edition of his show, Robertson denounced Orlando, Florida and Disney World for allowing a privately sponsored "Gay Days" weekend. Robertson stated that the acceptance of homosexuality could result in hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, terrorist bombings and "possibly a meteor."[13] The resulting outcry prompted Robertson to return to the topic on June 24, where he quoted the Book of Revelation to support his claims."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson
A Fine Example of the Intolerance of Ron Luce's best buddies!
There's a 'new' kid on the block in the religious fundamentalist community. Falwell, Robertson, etc.. now have John Hagee to thank for the formation of a Christian Zionist lobbying group Called CUFI..
AIPAC isn't working alone in the financial/political lobbying support of Israeli apartheid & militarization. Over the past few decades Christian Zionist tele-evangalists like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and others have used their clout with cable media broadcasting (Christian Broadcasting Network, 700 Club, etc..) to raise money in support of Israel apartheid/militarization. Not only the militarization of Israel, also the relocation of Russian/Eastern European Jews to the settlements in the West Bank, thus escalating tensions between Palestinians and newcomer Israelis..
Christian Zionists have formed an alliance with Jewish neo-conservative Zionists for the purpose of supporting relocation and military support of Jewish people in Israel. The Christian Zionists believe that this process (returning Jews to Israel) will influence the "second coming of Christ" aka "Rapture" aka "Battle of Armageddon" (named after a valley in Israel). Most likely the "flames of Rapture" will take the form of some kind of nuclear weapon brandished by the US/Israeli military. Regardless of how silly this sounds to logical people, the Christian Zionists believe this as a real future event and they are wealthy enough to broadcast their voices over various medias and influence many people who are easily misled by misinformation. In other words, Christian Zionists are powerful enough to make their delusion of "Rapture" into a human made reality via military nuclear weapons..
One recent example is John Hagee, another Christian Zionist tele-evangelist with ideology similar to Pat Robertson. Hagee has a church in San Antonio, TX with 500,000 followers, not including his cable television audience. He recently formed a Christian version of AIPAC (CUFI; Christians United For Israel) that will lobby in support of Israeli government's apartheid and increased militarization..
This from Challenging Christian Zionism website;
"So - its official. John Hagee has launched his "Christian AIPAC". To see what he's up to check out the webpage by clicking on the link above.
Here's their statement of purpose:
Statement of Purpose
The purpose of Christians United For Israel (C.U.F.I.) is to provide a national association through which every pro-Israel church, Para-church organization, ministry or individual in America can speak and act with one voice in support of Israel in matters related to Biblical issues.
"The Lord answered me and said: 'Write the vision, And make it plain on tablets. That he may run who reads it.'"
Habakkuk 2:2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments:
Once again a Christian Zionist organization has chosen to co opt the name "Christian" with the suggestion that what they do somehow reflects core Christian principles. Not so. This is power politics operating under the guise of Christianity.
The assumption made is that only those who adopt the extremist agenda of John Hagee are "pro Israel". A much stronger case can be made for the fact that those who support genuine peace making efforts opposed by Hagee are, in fact, more pro Israel than those who will become part of CUFI.
The more troubling assertion is the subtle suggestion that those who come under the CUFI umbrella are operating as agents of God in fulfillment of Habbakkuk 2:2. They alone are able to "run" with what God has written. This is a common claim of Christian Zionists - that they alone are able to interpret scripture rightly. No room for discussion here. They know God's mind . . .
Is there any more proof needed that we are dealing with a troubling phenomenon here? Christians claiming divine imperative for activities which are anything but. . .
Be careful giving any credence or support to this group."
more info on the influence of Christian Zionism;
http://www.christianzionism.org/
also;
Straight outta the jackass's mouth..
"Think of CUFI as a Christian version of American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)," the powerful pro-Israel lobby, Hagee told The Jerusalem Post in an interview a few days before the early February summit. "We need to be able to respond instantly to Washington with our concerns about Israel. We must join forces to speak as one group and move as one body to [respond to] the crisis Israel will be facing in the near future."
While Hagee wouldn't spell out which particular crisis he was concerned with, he did tell the Israeli newspaper that "'the Bible issue,' namely what he considers to be the mistaken policy of trading parts of the biblical Land of Israel for peace," was at the top of CUFI's list."
<-->
Who is paying for the relocation of Russian Jews into the West Bank settlements (source of increasing tension between Palestinians/Israelis as land becomes more densely populated)??
"The Texas Observer reported that "At the climax of the evening, Hagee presented a giant cardboard check for $1.5 million to the President and CEO of the United Jewish Communities," to be used for [the relocation of] Russian Jews to Israel. Hagee believes that bringing Jews to Israel will help to fulfill the biblical prophecy of 'the beginning of the end.'"
Instead of the Book of Revelations, talk of statecraft -- radical Christian Republican-style -- dominated. Together Hagee, DeLay, and [former Israeli prime minister Benjamin] Netanyahu [via a video feed from Israel] hit similar points: Jerusalem belongs to Israel; the west bank belongs to Israel; the Temple Mount belongs to Israel; the U.S. Embassy should be in Jerusalem not Tel Aviv; Yasser Arafat is a terrorist with whom one cannot negotiate; and unconditional support for Israel is the only option. As Hagee repeatedly noted, "Israel is the only nation on earth created by a sovereign act of God."
"
What about the environment, global warming air pollution, etc..? Well, since Hagee believes we're all heading straight into the burnin' flames o' Rapture, guess the ecosystem doesn't matter much anyway. Just so long as people continue burning that good Saudi oil while waiting for the Rapture!!
"In addition to spearheading the launch of Christians United for Israel, and appearing on a panel at the recently concluded National Religious Broadcasters convention, Hagee has aligned himself with a number of Christian right evangelicals who condemned the Evangelical Climate Initiative -- an initiative signed by 86 evangelical leaders acknowledging the seriousness of global warming and pledging to press for legislation to limit carbon dioxide emissions."
entire article @
http://www.mediatransparency.org/storyprinterfriendly.php?storyID=116
AIPAC isn't working alone in the financial/political lobbying support of Israeli apartheid & militarization. Over the past few decades Christian Zionist tele-evangalists like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and others have used their clout with cable media broadcasting (Christian Broadcasting Network, 700 Club, etc..) to raise money in support of Israel apartheid/militarization. Not only the militarization of Israel, also the relocation of Russian/Eastern European Jews to the settlements in the West Bank, thus escalating tensions between Palestinians and newcomer Israelis..
Christian Zionists have formed an alliance with Jewish neo-conservative Zionists for the purpose of supporting relocation and military support of Jewish people in Israel. The Christian Zionists believe that this process (returning Jews to Israel) will influence the "second coming of Christ" aka "Rapture" aka "Battle of Armageddon" (named after a valley in Israel). Most likely the "flames of Rapture" will take the form of some kind of nuclear weapon brandished by the US/Israeli military. Regardless of how silly this sounds to logical people, the Christian Zionists believe this as a real future event and they are wealthy enough to broadcast their voices over various medias and influence many people who are easily misled by misinformation. In other words, Christian Zionists are powerful enough to make their delusion of "Rapture" into a human made reality via military nuclear weapons..
One recent example is John Hagee, another Christian Zionist tele-evangelist with ideology similar to Pat Robertson. Hagee has a church in San Antonio, TX with 500,000 followers, not including his cable television audience. He recently formed a Christian version of AIPAC (CUFI; Christians United For Israel) that will lobby in support of Israeli government's apartheid and increased militarization..
This from Challenging Christian Zionism website;
"So - its official. John Hagee has launched his "Christian AIPAC". To see what he's up to check out the webpage by clicking on the link above.
Here's their statement of purpose:
Statement of Purpose
The purpose of Christians United For Israel (C.U.F.I.) is to provide a national association through which every pro-Israel church, Para-church organization, ministry or individual in America can speak and act with one voice in support of Israel in matters related to Biblical issues.
"The Lord answered me and said: 'Write the vision, And make it plain on tablets. That he may run who reads it.'"
Habakkuk 2:2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments:
Once again a Christian Zionist organization has chosen to co opt the name "Christian" with the suggestion that what they do somehow reflects core Christian principles. Not so. This is power politics operating under the guise of Christianity.
The assumption made is that only those who adopt the extremist agenda of John Hagee are "pro Israel". A much stronger case can be made for the fact that those who support genuine peace making efforts opposed by Hagee are, in fact, more pro Israel than those who will become part of CUFI.
The more troubling assertion is the subtle suggestion that those who come under the CUFI umbrella are operating as agents of God in fulfillment of Habbakkuk 2:2. They alone are able to "run" with what God has written. This is a common claim of Christian Zionists - that they alone are able to interpret scripture rightly. No room for discussion here. They know God's mind . . .
Is there any more proof needed that we are dealing with a troubling phenomenon here? Christians claiming divine imperative for activities which are anything but. . .
Be careful giving any credence or support to this group."
more info on the influence of Christian Zionism;
http://www.christianzionism.org/
also;
Straight outta the jackass's mouth..
"Think of CUFI as a Christian version of American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)," the powerful pro-Israel lobby, Hagee told The Jerusalem Post in an interview a few days before the early February summit. "We need to be able to respond instantly to Washington with our concerns about Israel. We must join forces to speak as one group and move as one body to [respond to] the crisis Israel will be facing in the near future."
While Hagee wouldn't spell out which particular crisis he was concerned with, he did tell the Israeli newspaper that "'the Bible issue,' namely what he considers to be the mistaken policy of trading parts of the biblical Land of Israel for peace," was at the top of CUFI's list."
<-->
Who is paying for the relocation of Russian Jews into the West Bank settlements (source of increasing tension between Palestinians/Israelis as land becomes more densely populated)??
"The Texas Observer reported that "At the climax of the evening, Hagee presented a giant cardboard check for $1.5 million to the President and CEO of the United Jewish Communities," to be used for [the relocation of] Russian Jews to Israel. Hagee believes that bringing Jews to Israel will help to fulfill the biblical prophecy of 'the beginning of the end.'"
Instead of the Book of Revelations, talk of statecraft -- radical Christian Republican-style -- dominated. Together Hagee, DeLay, and [former Israeli prime minister Benjamin] Netanyahu [via a video feed from Israel] hit similar points: Jerusalem belongs to Israel; the west bank belongs to Israel; the Temple Mount belongs to Israel; the U.S. Embassy should be in Jerusalem not Tel Aviv; Yasser Arafat is a terrorist with whom one cannot negotiate; and unconditional support for Israel is the only option. As Hagee repeatedly noted, "Israel is the only nation on earth created by a sovereign act of God."
"
What about the environment, global warming air pollution, etc..? Well, since Hagee believes we're all heading straight into the burnin' flames o' Rapture, guess the ecosystem doesn't matter much anyway. Just so long as people continue burning that good Saudi oil while waiting for the Rapture!!
"In addition to spearheading the launch of Christians United for Israel, and appearing on a panel at the recently concluded National Religious Broadcasters convention, Hagee has aligned himself with a number of Christian right evangelicals who condemned the Evangelical Climate Initiative -- an initiative signed by 86 evangelical leaders acknowledging the seriousness of global warming and pledging to press for legislation to limit carbon dioxide emissions."
entire article @
http://www.mediatransparency.org/storyprinterfriendly.php?storyID=116
have written a separate article for those who are interested in discussing Zionism at length. Anything to say about BattleCry? Just curious...
We are 100% volunteer and depend on your participation to sustain our efforts!
Donate
$210.00 donated
in the past month
Get Involved
If you'd like to help with maintaining or developing the website, contact us.
Publish
Publish your stories and upcoming events on Indybay.
Topics
More
Search Indybay's Archives
Advanced Search
►
▼
IMC Network