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Off Duty U.S. Customs officer shoots unarmed 19-year old Arab-American in head and face.
Off Duty U.S. Customs officer shoots unarmed 19-year old Arab-American in head and face. Authorities state that officer committed no wrong-doing and did not even book him for questioning
This incident happened about 15 minutes from my house in the Madrid apartment complex in Mission Viejo, CA on Feb 5, 2005.
As far as a political discussion, this would probably fall under the same category as Amadou Diallo Case, and Abner Louima in an example of law enforcement brutality bordering on outright criminality. Here are the relevant facts:
Early in the morning on Saturday February the 6th around 1:30 am, Bassim Chmait along with three other friends were walking through an apartment complex heading towards a college house party. As they were walking through the apartment complex one oo the neighbors threw a soda can at them from above. In frustration, one of the young boys threw the can into the street, and continued walking down the pathway of the apartment heading to the party. At that point Douglas Bates, an off duty U.S. Custom's officer, left his home with his badge in hand and gun drawn confronting the group of 4 to 6 friends. . he started to yell at them, and when the group of boys turned around, they saw the provoker yelling at them about laughing and being too loud, he was heading towards them pointing his gun a them with a badge in the other hand, yelling "You don't want to fuck with a cop, do you?" Apparently he was upset at the noise and commotion. Mr. Bates then pistol whipped one member of the group. The aggressor was an off duty border patrol/homeland security officer who was not in uniform, his name is Douglas Bates. The four unarmed boys were questioning him, asking why he was pointing his gun at them and begging him to put it down. One of the four boys that were there kept asking the gunman to stop pointing the barrel of the gun in his friends direction. Because of that, the aggressor pistol-whipped his friend on the forehead w/ the gun. Anticipating that the provoker was going to hit his friend again Chmait Bassim got in front of his friends telling the man to please put the gun down. Almost instantly the off duty cop shot Bassim in the head and face by Douglas Bates. After shooting Bassim, Mr. Bates simply walked back into his apartment. While friends were screaming for Bassim and neighbors dialed 911. About 5 minutes later the murder opened his door, with the gun still in hand and yelled at neighbors to shut up, and he want back inside his apartment.
This story comes straight from four witnesses, and neighbors that were there when the murder took place, they saw and heard everything that occurred that night.
You would think that this would be an easy case to prosecute. You would think that Douglas Bates is in jail right now. But he’s not, he’s a free man, he was never arrested, he was never charged, he was never even asked to come to the police station to give a statement. The Orange County Sheriff's Department Spokesman, Jim Amormino stated, "We treated this the same as we would any case. There was no clear evidence of a crime being committed, so there was nothing to book him on."
Here are the reports that this information was taken from:
-http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-agent6feb06,1,5675134.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
-http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/10839269.htm?1c
-http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2005/02/08/sections/local/local/article_402241.php (registration required) (edit: use Bassim/Bassim for the login and password)
-http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/8/125420/3042
Full disclosure From Eyewitness of the murder:
I know and was casual friends with Bassim Chmait for the short time that I have lived in California. He and his friends were accepting and friendly to a sort of clueless New Englander transplant that I am here in Orange County. To me, this group was a typical group of friends, attending college, partying on the weekends, working crappy mall jobs on the side, even forming their own rap group complete with self-produced CDs. No different than any other group of friends I knew of growing up in suburban Massachusetts. I'm obviously biased towards Bassim and his friends regarding this incident, but that does not mean a reasonable person would not be suspicious after weighing the facts. I just took information from the A.P. and Orange County Register reports above, and didn't include information that I know from 1st and 2nd party sources. There are two independent witnesses not connected at all to the group of friends who saw the shooting, one of whom, a 30-something blonde women, I overheard saying that the authorities would arrest Mr. Bates, but had to go though established procedures. I can't help but think that was empty lip-service paid to a woman who had saw first-hand a violent death. Also, I've heard from members of the group that Bassim was not walking toward Mr. Bates to threaten him, but to aide his friend (whose name wasn't in the report) Mike who was on the ground bleeding from his head after being pistol-whipped.
I attended the candlelight vigil last night at the apartment complex where Bassim was murdered. a scene where typical suburban parents and grandparents mourned the fallen intermixed with younger peers sending off Bassim. All this occurred while Douglas Bates was 100 yards away in his apartment, seemingly unafraid of being arrested for murder. Words cannot express the frustration and anguish for everyone in attendance to know that he was still free while they were attempting to mourn and celebrate his short life.
It is hard not to let the pain of losing someone you know under these circumstances fuel suspicion in the integrity of the legal and law enforcement process. The Arab-American community that Bassim was part of is deeply suspicious of the process, and at various times attendees yelled out "Justice" during the vigil. I can't help but think that if this occurred in the college apartments in Amherst, MA where I attended college, and if the group of kids involved wasn't Arab-American, that there would be no question that an off-duty federal officer would be apprehended immediately. How can there even be the implication that Bates was just defending himself with the facts taken from the incident? But that implication exists in the news reports, where they noted he had a cut lip. The group of young adults had no way of issuing a threat of lethal force; there was no excuse for Bates to use his firearm.
The purpose of posting this is to simply give it more of an audience than Orange County. I figured it would be front page news that a federal officer shot and killed a 19-year old young adult. All that it is has gotten is two A.P. releases, and a write-up in the Orange County Register Local section. In an incident like this, the facts that come out first serve as the template for later attention, and I want to get out the facts that suggest that Douglas Bates behaved in a criminal manner, and not in righteous self-defense. If Mr. Bates receives no punishment, there is the possibility for a news story in the magnitude of Amadou Diallo. If the established media don't look into incident in a more detailed comprehensive way, I would hope that this could be kept alive in blogdom to prevent it from sinking down the memory hole.
And you might think that this is all a single incident, but it isn’t. Orange County, CA happens to be one of the richest and most exclusive communities in the country.. but with wealth and privilege, come power and corruption. Orange County police have been known to cover up for each other. Just a year ago officers tried to hide a run-in with assistant sheriff's son, who faces a rape trial.(See Teen Sex, Cash and Videotape - All of millionaire Don Haidl’s fortune can’t buy his kid a dollar’s worth of sense , and The Game Is Up - Despite daddy’s money, power and influence, gang-rape defendant Haidl runs out of outs) and just 6 weeks ago the wife of San Clemente Sheriff was involved in a hit-and-run accident which killed a 10 year old boy on Camino De Estrella, No charges have been filed, and police refuse to give any statements about the matter.
Attend the Vigil Every Saturday Night @ 9:00 PM until JUSTICE has been served.
DIRECTIONS: In Mission Viejo just take Los Alisos all the way down past Marguerite, and the Madrid Apartments will be on the left hand side, look for a group of people there.
Contact Orange County Sheriff Department and demand that they properly investigate this case.
Orange County Sheriff Department
714-647-7042 OR 949-425-1800 OR 714-628-7170
Inquire why the shooting of Bassim Chmait is not considered a crime. Get them to state publicly that the U.S. Customs Agent was acting is self-defense, which is completely ludicrous, but pin them down on their rationale.
Here is the P.R. guy responsible for covering the sheriff's department's ass. Call and ask questions.
Orange County Sheriff's Department
Michael S. Carona Sheriff-Coroner
Public Information/Public Affairs Office
Jim Amormino, Director (714) 647-7042
I've been told that it would be more effective to make inquires regarding this incident to the Orange County District Attorney's Office. His name is Tony Rackauckas. The Main Office Phone Number is:
714-834-3600
Here is the link to the DA's website:
http://www.ocgov.com/da
Here is some contact information for the U.S. Customs & Border Protection.
First here are links to email complaints the CBP: Make a comment about U.S. Customs and Border Protection by clicking hereRegister a complain with the CBP here Click on the "Ask a Question Tab" to send an email. I have doubts that this will all the effective. But the more the noise directed at the CBP the better.
Here is more general info about the Los Angeles office and the D.C. headquarters:
Los Angeles
Field Operations Office Information
Location Address : 1 World Trade Center
Suite 705
Long Beach , CA 90831
Mailing Address : Same As Above
General Phone : (562) 980-3100
General Fax : (562) 980-3107
Operational Hours : 8:00 AM - 4:30 PM ( Pacific )
Weekdays (Monday-Friday)
Press Office
Name : Michael Fleming, Press Officer
Address : One World Trade Center
Room 723
Long Beach , CA 90831
Phone : ( 562 ) 980 - 3110
Fax : ( 562 ) 980 - 3369
Here is information on CBP Headquarters:
CBP Headquarters
1300 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20229
Commissioner
Robert C. Bonner
Deputy Commissioner
Deborah Spero
Chief of Staff
Gary Shiffman
Chief Counsel
Alfonso Robles
(202) 344-2990
Commissioner's Staff
Equal Employment Opportunity
Special Assistant to the Commissioner
Linda Batts
(202) 344-1610
Policy & Planning
Nicolle Sciara (Acting)
(202) 344-2700
Trade Relations
Michael C. Mullen
(202) 344-1440
Assistant Commissioners
Field Operations
Jayson P. Ahern
(202) 344-1620
Office of Border Patrol
David V. Aguilar
(202) 344-2050
Training and Development
Thomas J. Walters (Acting)
(202) 344-1130
International Affairs
E. Keith Thomson
(202) 344-3000
Information and Technology
(CIO) Rod MacDonald (Acting)
(202) 344-1680
Internal Affairs
William A. Keefer
(202) 344-1800
Office of Public Affairs
Kristi Clemens
(202)-344-1770
Congressional Affairs
Seth Statler (Acting)
(202) 344-1760
Finance (CFO)
Richard L. Balaban
(202) 344-2300
Regulations & Rulings
Michael Schmitz
(202) 572-8700
Human Resources Management
Robert M. Smith
(202) 344-1250
Strategic Trade
Daniel Baldwin (Acting)
(202) 344-2370
Orange County Sheriff's Department Info (none / 0)
Homepage:
http://www.ocsd.org/
Mission Viejo Patrol Area page:
http://www.ocsd.org/PatrolledCities/mviejo.asp
Here is the information for the:
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DIVISION
550 N. Flower Street, Santa Ana, CA 92703
(714) 647-7040
occid [at] ocsd.org
As far as a political discussion, this would probably fall under the same category as Amadou Diallo Case, and Abner Louima in an example of law enforcement brutality bordering on outright criminality. Here are the relevant facts:
Early in the morning on Saturday February the 6th around 1:30 am, Bassim Chmait along with three other friends were walking through an apartment complex heading towards a college house party. As they were walking through the apartment complex one oo the neighbors threw a soda can at them from above. In frustration, one of the young boys threw the can into the street, and continued walking down the pathway of the apartment heading to the party. At that point Douglas Bates, an off duty U.S. Custom's officer, left his home with his badge in hand and gun drawn confronting the group of 4 to 6 friends. . he started to yell at them, and when the group of boys turned around, they saw the provoker yelling at them about laughing and being too loud, he was heading towards them pointing his gun a them with a badge in the other hand, yelling "You don't want to fuck with a cop, do you?" Apparently he was upset at the noise and commotion. Mr. Bates then pistol whipped one member of the group. The aggressor was an off duty border patrol/homeland security officer who was not in uniform, his name is Douglas Bates. The four unarmed boys were questioning him, asking why he was pointing his gun at them and begging him to put it down. One of the four boys that were there kept asking the gunman to stop pointing the barrel of the gun in his friends direction. Because of that, the aggressor pistol-whipped his friend on the forehead w/ the gun. Anticipating that the provoker was going to hit his friend again Chmait Bassim got in front of his friends telling the man to please put the gun down. Almost instantly the off duty cop shot Bassim in the head and face by Douglas Bates. After shooting Bassim, Mr. Bates simply walked back into his apartment. While friends were screaming for Bassim and neighbors dialed 911. About 5 minutes later the murder opened his door, with the gun still in hand and yelled at neighbors to shut up, and he want back inside his apartment.
This story comes straight from four witnesses, and neighbors that were there when the murder took place, they saw and heard everything that occurred that night.
You would think that this would be an easy case to prosecute. You would think that Douglas Bates is in jail right now. But he’s not, he’s a free man, he was never arrested, he was never charged, he was never even asked to come to the police station to give a statement. The Orange County Sheriff's Department Spokesman, Jim Amormino stated, "We treated this the same as we would any case. There was no clear evidence of a crime being committed, so there was nothing to book him on."
Here are the reports that this information was taken from:
-http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-agent6feb06,1,5675134.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
-http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/10839269.htm?1c
-http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2005/02/08/sections/local/local/article_402241.php (registration required) (edit: use Bassim/Bassim for the login and password)
-http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/8/125420/3042
Full disclosure From Eyewitness of the murder:
I know and was casual friends with Bassim Chmait for the short time that I have lived in California. He and his friends were accepting and friendly to a sort of clueless New Englander transplant that I am here in Orange County. To me, this group was a typical group of friends, attending college, partying on the weekends, working crappy mall jobs on the side, even forming their own rap group complete with self-produced CDs. No different than any other group of friends I knew of growing up in suburban Massachusetts. I'm obviously biased towards Bassim and his friends regarding this incident, but that does not mean a reasonable person would not be suspicious after weighing the facts. I just took information from the A.P. and Orange County Register reports above, and didn't include information that I know from 1st and 2nd party sources. There are two independent witnesses not connected at all to the group of friends who saw the shooting, one of whom, a 30-something blonde women, I overheard saying that the authorities would arrest Mr. Bates, but had to go though established procedures. I can't help but think that was empty lip-service paid to a woman who had saw first-hand a violent death. Also, I've heard from members of the group that Bassim was not walking toward Mr. Bates to threaten him, but to aide his friend (whose name wasn't in the report) Mike who was on the ground bleeding from his head after being pistol-whipped.
I attended the candlelight vigil last night at the apartment complex where Bassim was murdered. a scene where typical suburban parents and grandparents mourned the fallen intermixed with younger peers sending off Bassim. All this occurred while Douglas Bates was 100 yards away in his apartment, seemingly unafraid of being arrested for murder. Words cannot express the frustration and anguish for everyone in attendance to know that he was still free while they were attempting to mourn and celebrate his short life.
It is hard not to let the pain of losing someone you know under these circumstances fuel suspicion in the integrity of the legal and law enforcement process. The Arab-American community that Bassim was part of is deeply suspicious of the process, and at various times attendees yelled out "Justice" during the vigil. I can't help but think that if this occurred in the college apartments in Amherst, MA where I attended college, and if the group of kids involved wasn't Arab-American, that there would be no question that an off-duty federal officer would be apprehended immediately. How can there even be the implication that Bates was just defending himself with the facts taken from the incident? But that implication exists in the news reports, where they noted he had a cut lip. The group of young adults had no way of issuing a threat of lethal force; there was no excuse for Bates to use his firearm.
The purpose of posting this is to simply give it more of an audience than Orange County. I figured it would be front page news that a federal officer shot and killed a 19-year old young adult. All that it is has gotten is two A.P. releases, and a write-up in the Orange County Register Local section. In an incident like this, the facts that come out first serve as the template for later attention, and I want to get out the facts that suggest that Douglas Bates behaved in a criminal manner, and not in righteous self-defense. If Mr. Bates receives no punishment, there is the possibility for a news story in the magnitude of Amadou Diallo. If the established media don't look into incident in a more detailed comprehensive way, I would hope that this could be kept alive in blogdom to prevent it from sinking down the memory hole.
And you might think that this is all a single incident, but it isn’t. Orange County, CA happens to be one of the richest and most exclusive communities in the country.. but with wealth and privilege, come power and corruption. Orange County police have been known to cover up for each other. Just a year ago officers tried to hide a run-in with assistant sheriff's son, who faces a rape trial.(See Teen Sex, Cash and Videotape - All of millionaire Don Haidl’s fortune can’t buy his kid a dollar’s worth of sense , and The Game Is Up - Despite daddy’s money, power and influence, gang-rape defendant Haidl runs out of outs) and just 6 weeks ago the wife of San Clemente Sheriff was involved in a hit-and-run accident which killed a 10 year old boy on Camino De Estrella, No charges have been filed, and police refuse to give any statements about the matter.
Attend the Vigil Every Saturday Night @ 9:00 PM until JUSTICE has been served.
DIRECTIONS: In Mission Viejo just take Los Alisos all the way down past Marguerite, and the Madrid Apartments will be on the left hand side, look for a group of people there.
Contact Orange County Sheriff Department and demand that they properly investigate this case.
Orange County Sheriff Department
714-647-7042 OR 949-425-1800 OR 714-628-7170
Inquire why the shooting of Bassim Chmait is not considered a crime. Get them to state publicly that the U.S. Customs Agent was acting is self-defense, which is completely ludicrous, but pin them down on their rationale.
Here is the P.R. guy responsible for covering the sheriff's department's ass. Call and ask questions.
Orange County Sheriff's Department
Michael S. Carona Sheriff-Coroner
Public Information/Public Affairs Office
Jim Amormino, Director (714) 647-7042
I've been told that it would be more effective to make inquires regarding this incident to the Orange County District Attorney's Office. His name is Tony Rackauckas. The Main Office Phone Number is:
714-834-3600
Here is the link to the DA's website:
http://www.ocgov.com/da
Here is some contact information for the U.S. Customs & Border Protection.
First here are links to email complaints the CBP: Make a comment about U.S. Customs and Border Protection by clicking hereRegister a complain with the CBP here Click on the "Ask a Question Tab" to send an email. I have doubts that this will all the effective. But the more the noise directed at the CBP the better.
Here is more general info about the Los Angeles office and the D.C. headquarters:
Los Angeles
Field Operations Office Information
Location Address : 1 World Trade Center
Suite 705
Long Beach , CA 90831
Mailing Address : Same As Above
General Phone : (562) 980-3100
General Fax : (562) 980-3107
Operational Hours : 8:00 AM - 4:30 PM ( Pacific )
Weekdays (Monday-Friday)
Press Office
Name : Michael Fleming, Press Officer
Address : One World Trade Center
Room 723
Long Beach , CA 90831
Phone : ( 562 ) 980 - 3110
Fax : ( 562 ) 980 - 3369
Here is information on CBP Headquarters:
CBP Headquarters
1300 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20229
Commissioner
Robert C. Bonner
Deputy Commissioner
Deborah Spero
Chief of Staff
Gary Shiffman
Chief Counsel
Alfonso Robles
(202) 344-2990
Commissioner's Staff
Equal Employment Opportunity
Special Assistant to the Commissioner
Linda Batts
(202) 344-1610
Policy & Planning
Nicolle Sciara (Acting)
(202) 344-2700
Trade Relations
Michael C. Mullen
(202) 344-1440
Assistant Commissioners
Field Operations
Jayson P. Ahern
(202) 344-1620
Office of Border Patrol
David V. Aguilar
(202) 344-2050
Training and Development
Thomas J. Walters (Acting)
(202) 344-1130
International Affairs
E. Keith Thomson
(202) 344-3000
Information and Technology
(CIO) Rod MacDonald (Acting)
(202) 344-1680
Internal Affairs
William A. Keefer
(202) 344-1800
Office of Public Affairs
Kristi Clemens
(202)-344-1770
Congressional Affairs
Seth Statler (Acting)
(202) 344-1760
Finance (CFO)
Richard L. Balaban
(202) 344-2300
Regulations & Rulings
Michael Schmitz
(202) 572-8700
Human Resources Management
Robert M. Smith
(202) 344-1250
Strategic Trade
Daniel Baldwin (Acting)
(202) 344-2370
Orange County Sheriff's Department Info (none / 0)
Homepage:
http://www.ocsd.org/
Mission Viejo Patrol Area page:
http://www.ocsd.org/PatrolledCities/mviejo.asp
Here is the information for the:
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DIVISION
550 N. Flower Street, Santa Ana, CA 92703
(714) 647-7040
occid [at] ocsd.org
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Comments
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So -to the family I'm so sorry for your loss.
You know we -I mean the people here-all of us -have to stop puting up with this crap giving up our power to this shit that person that COP is a murder a killer that is free free to kill again and so many others COP's as well they are all killers.
Let's stop this "shit" let's take our POWER back as a people that don't want our childern to die for what for ?.
You know we -I mean the people here-all of us -have to stop puting up with this crap giving up our power to this shit that person that COP is a murder a killer that is free free to kill again and so many others COP's as well they are all killers.
Let's stop this "shit" let's take our POWER back as a people that don't want our childern to die for what for ?.
*sigh*
first of all, Rest In Peace Bassim Chmait aka Spazz.... Xtort lives on forever....
back to the matter at hand.... the OC Police Dept. is very shady.... Douglas Bates had no right whatsoever to pull out a gun and aim it at unarmed civilians and to shoot down my cousin from point blank range... how the hell do they say that "we will treat this like any other case. There isn't any evidence to prove anything wrong was committed" even though there were eye witnesses.... the police say that Douglas had a cut on his face, maybe he intentionally did it do to the fact that he's a cop and he knows how to cover things up, like the rest of the OCPD.... even if they HAD used force on Bates, he still cannot pull out a murder weapon to MURDER UNARMED CIVILIANS... apparently, the OCPD are cowards that hide behind their badges, and use the excuse of being a high authority in order to MURDER a civilian.....
before i get out of hand, i will just leave the readers at that, and let them postulate their own idea of whether Douglas Bates had the right to kill Bassim or whether he should be treated as a heartless Murderer...
Thank You For the Information from the articale,
Danny
first of all, Rest In Peace Bassim Chmait aka Spazz.... Xtort lives on forever....
back to the matter at hand.... the OC Police Dept. is very shady.... Douglas Bates had no right whatsoever to pull out a gun and aim it at unarmed civilians and to shoot down my cousin from point blank range... how the hell do they say that "we will treat this like any other case. There isn't any evidence to prove anything wrong was committed" even though there were eye witnesses.... the police say that Douglas had a cut on his face, maybe he intentionally did it do to the fact that he's a cop and he knows how to cover things up, like the rest of the OCPD.... even if they HAD used force on Bates, he still cannot pull out a murder weapon to MURDER UNARMED CIVILIANS... apparently, the OCPD are cowards that hide behind their badges, and use the excuse of being a high authority in order to MURDER a civilian.....
before i get out of hand, i will just leave the readers at that, and let them postulate their own idea of whether Douglas Bates had the right to kill Bassim or whether he should be treated as a heartless Murderer...
Thank You For the Information from the articale,
Danny
If you are going to write an article about somebody's death get his age wright. 4/4/1984 - 2/5/2005, He was 20 not 19.
God Bless Bassim. I met him briefly when my daughter and I were looking to purchase a mobile telephone at the Mission Viejo Mall in May 2004. Bassim worked at Cingular.
He was so helpful, so nice and a very professional young man. We immediately took a liking to Bassim and I am so saddened that he was killed. How can the authorities allow this to happen?
This man should be prosecuted! Why do we have laws if the people who break them are not held accountable.
He was so helpful, so nice and a very professional young man. We immediately took a liking to Bassim and I am so saddened that he was killed. How can the authorities allow this to happen?
This man should be prosecuted! Why do we have laws if the people who break them are not held accountable.
If this is what our government has become then it is time to take back our government (see The Umbrella Movement to Counteract the Right at http://www.therightiswrong.us) or we can take our ball and go play somewhere else. Go to: http://www.worldparliamentgov.net. If you want to play this WP game contact me at webmaster [at] worldparliamentgov.net. The world parliament is a non-military, democratic government based on establishing peace and solving environmental problems.
its time to burn down this fucking blue wall of excessive force.
Kill Douglas Bates
Although it was definately wrong to shoot and kill the kid I am sure that the kids were not as nice as the article makes it sound. I bet the kids tried to start a fight.
highly unlikely that anyone tried to start a fight with a guy who (eyewittnesses say) was waving a gun and a badge around.
4 college students are smart enough to not fight with someone waving a gun and badge, especially in the united states of terrorist-fear.
Was the officer drunk?
Was the officer drunk?
There is no way to know if the killer was on drugs or alcohol at the time of the shooting because the police that arrived at the scene never took a blood/urine sample.
Further, no one in their right mind is going to 'start a fight' with someone holding a badge and gun let alone a bunch of kids.
Further, no one in their right mind is going to 'start a fight' with someone holding a badge and gun let alone a bunch of kids.
It is more and more common for some insane police or their owners in high velvet chairs of government to do as they please. Orange county and LA are shee-it anyway.
The Primordial rule of "An eye for an eye" indicates this is not over.
In some cities the government beats locals, and they do not have to be arab or any particular color, just not filthy rich.
Bring on WWIII and let it end is what some hope for, as the approaching nightmare of the USA is here.
Take a look at this video in the link below. It does not show the forced injections the government is giving out since the regime took over in 2000.
It is at the Mobile Audit Club
http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/democracyordeath/index.html
I no longer care about America's politicians because they no longer care about me or mine. I prefer the re-birth of a new form of La Costa Nostra with its independent arms to wrestle with the beasts of incivility.
The Primordial rule of "An eye for an eye" indicates this is not over.
In some cities the government beats locals, and they do not have to be arab or any particular color, just not filthy rich.
Bring on WWIII and let it end is what some hope for, as the approaching nightmare of the USA is here.
Take a look at this video in the link below. It does not show the forced injections the government is giving out since the regime took over in 2000.
It is at the Mobile Audit Club
http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/democracyordeath/index.html
I no longer care about America's politicians because they no longer care about me or mine. I prefer the re-birth of a new form of La Costa Nostra with its independent arms to wrestle with the beasts of incivility.
This is not true. Those boys were clearly looking for trouble and got exactly what they deserved. The officer did not shoot him on purpose the gun went off by accident because the the no good kids tried to get it. Get your facts straight. Better yet go back to your own country and stay the hell out of ours.
whoever wrote the article to kill douglas bates. you are going straight to hell. those mother fuckers were looking for trouble and got what the fuck they served. how dare you . Douglas has the Lord on his side. He didn't do anything wrong. Orange county already has problems with your mother fuckers anyway.
those mother fuckers were stupid and did charge at a officer. get the fucking story right .
The officer is a good hearted Christian. Bassim charged at him and tried to take the officers gun as a result you know what happened his ass was killed accidently. Oh well Bassim and his friends were looking for trouble as usual. You foreigners seem to always come to our country and start trouble. Don't make it out to be Bassim and his friends are so rightous. I think the hell not. Give me a break. WHatever you have to say you will be going straight to hell. How about that.
You know what ,were you there? No I think not !! Yes everyone would like to believe that their family member is oh so great and innocent especially if THEY believe they were a victim of wrondoing!. These messages of hate as far I am concerned are a terriorist threat ,rather it be in person on the internet,in newspapers , on tv or whatever. This is not chrisitan like at all !!!! GOD does not deal in lies, the twisted truth or hatred !!! He says it is easier to pray for someone you love then to pray for your enemies, I see you as the enemy with your hateful words and stupidity, yet I pray for your souls.The truth will come out regardless of threats, vigils, protests, trying to bring up other cases not regarding this one , trying to force the police and da's office to give the outcome you want because of backlash from an angry people !!!!!..GOD HAS REIN OVER THIS WORLD NOT ANY!!!MAN NOR WOMAN,TV,NEWSPAPER,INTERNET,GOSSIP,HEARSAY,LIES NOR ALIBIES !!!!!!!!! HE DOES NOT DEAL IN THREATS OR INTIMIDATION . So keep spewing hatered and what you believe to be the truth and keeping trying to get the outcome you want because of the state of affairs not only this country is in but the the world is in and GOD WILL PREVAIL HE ALWAYS DOES!!! I CAN REST EASY ON THAT !!!!!!!!
GOD bless you and your souls.That is eternal !!!!!
GOD bless you and your souls.That is eternal !!!!!
You know what, were you there ? I think not ! All of us would like to believe that a family member was oh so great or innocent when they feel they are a victim of wrongdoing. As far as I am concerned these comments are nothing more then terroristic threats rather it be via the internet, newspapers, tv or whatever !!!! GOD does not deal in hatred , the twisted truth or gray areas. GOD says it is easier to pray for someone you love then it is to pray for your enemies. I see you as the enemy yet I pray for your souls. GOD HAS REIN OVER THIS WORLD. NOT MAN NOR WOMAN. HE DOES NOT DEAL IN THEARTS OR INTIMIDATION !!!!! He and ONLY he will have the LAST WORD !!!!! You're trying to force the da, the police and anyone who will listen to do what you think is right because you come off as an angry people is ludacris!!!.You can have your vigils,protests, hateful comments and whatever else you come up.Know this GOD DEALS IN THE TRUTH and I can REST EASILY KNOWING THAT !!! HE IS FEARFUL OF NO MAN (EVER). SO what do you do you try and take advantage of what is going on in this country and the state of affairs going on in this world period to make your case and to make it seem like your race are more like victims! You bring up cases that have absoultely nothing to do with the one at hand or are even remotely similar to force and outcome you want and why because we should be afraid you are an angry people? ..All I can say is GOD bless you and your SOUL that is ETERNAL!!!!!!!!
Maybe you should be on the terriost watch list.
The AP reporters go the age wrong in the original report. Here is the URL to the original report:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-agent6feb06,1,5675134.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
So criticize the AP reporters.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-agent6feb06,1,5675134.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
So criticize the AP reporters.
I have not heard ONE word about the kids charging the officer in any press reports or any personal accounts. I presume you have some source where you heard that. It makes no sense why a group of kids at a Friday night party would charge an officer with a gun and badge drawn. Also, you call him an "officer", but he was NOT acting in the office capacity of a US custom's agent. It is not his job to break up a Friday night party, it is the job of local authorities. He was dressed in a blue bathrobe, not a uniform. It looks like he went outside in a rage, and wanted to prove his mettle to a group of *kids*. We he sure proved he could shoot an unarmed college kid in the head. Also, how the heck could those kids know that Bates was a real officer and not some imposter? All they saw was an angry man waving a gun around with a badge in hand. A badge that anyone could purchase from a novelty/costume store. There was no reason for Bates to use lethal force in a situaion where there was no lethal threat posed to him. He should have called the Mission Viejo police, but Bates wanted to play Wyatt Earp.
To Shai or Shay,
You wrote above:
"The officer is a good hearted Christian"
and
"Douglas has the Lord on his side"
Let me ask you this, if Mr. Bates is such a good christian, why didn't he pay attention to "Thou shalt not kill"? Why is the Lord on Bates side, when Bates was the one to violate one of the ten commandments? Bassim didn't kill anyone, Bates did.
And for all the Xenophobic crap about foreigners, Bassim grew up in Orange County attending the local schools in Laguna Woods. His family paid taxes like any other American. They deserve the same legal rights as any other american citizen. Bassim is no less of an american than Bates.
You wrote above:
"The officer is a good hearted Christian"
and
"Douglas has the Lord on his side"
Let me ask you this, if Mr. Bates is such a good christian, why didn't he pay attention to "Thou shalt not kill"? Why is the Lord on Bates side, when Bates was the one to violate one of the ten commandments? Bassim didn't kill anyone, Bates did.
And for all the Xenophobic crap about foreigners, Bassim grew up in Orange County attending the local schools in Laguna Woods. His family paid taxes like any other American. They deserve the same legal rights as any other american citizen. Bassim is no less of an american than Bates.
Okay first of all that was a accident you simple idiot. If Bassim or Brassim wouldn't have charged at Bates to get the gun it wouldn't have went off. Get the story right. Like I said the Lord is on Bates side. Don't get made you people and his friends are clearly EVIL and LORD help your souls. Those kids were looking for trouble. I don't give a flying crap were he went to school. HE is still not american. Get that okay!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First of all idiot again. Those kids were looking for trouble. Don't you worry about where I get my facts from. You people have stood in front of the DAs office with signs calling DOuglas a murder and killer. Don't don't tell me you people haven't personally attacked him. Because clearly you have. Any officer would have went outside. First those kids didnt' live there and had no BUSINESS BEING IN A GATED COMMUNITY FROM THE GET GO. DON'T GET BE STARTED OKAY. YOU HEARD WHAT I SAID. GET OVER IT. YOU PEOPLE ARE CRUEL AND EVIL...............
Shai--you aren't helping Bates' cause with your bigoted, illiterate posts.
The fact that Bates has supporters like you reflects poorly on him. Based on what I've read on this thread, I'd say he's GUILTY.
The fact that Bates has supporters like you reflects poorly on him. Based on what I've read on this thread, I'd say he's GUILTY.
I don't post illerate posts you MORAN!!!! He is not guilty. Like I said before you PEOPLE ARE EVIL AND CRUEL. I AM ON BATES SIDE. HE WAS IN THE RIGHT. YOU PEOPLE WERE LOOKING FOR TROUBLE. YOU MORAN ONCE AGAIN YOU PEOPLE ARE THE BIGOTS MAKING CHANTS AND LIES AND MAKING EVIL SIGNS. YOU GUYS ARE THE ONES THAT ARE EVIL A BUNCH OF FREAKIN LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIERS AT THAT TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO SAY I COULD CARE LESS YOU DON'T SCARE ME ONE BIT AT ALL.
Who else would be so supportive of a racist who shot an Arab American kid in the head due to a noise complaint?
"I don't post illerate posts you MORAN!!!!"
Listen, I didn't say your posts are "illerate." I said they're I-L-L-I-T-E-R-A-T-E (and bigoted--a fact you don't even bother to deny).
Okay, MOR*O*N?
Listen, I didn't say your posts are "illerate." I said they're I-L-L-I-T-E-R-A-T-E (and bigoted--a fact you don't even bother to deny).
Okay, MOR*O*N?
You wrote above:
"Bassim or Brassim wouldn't have charged at Bates to get the gun it wouldn't have went off. Get the story right."
So are you saying that God is on the side of anyone who kills someone if they "charge" him or her? Is there a missing matador commandment that was lost over time?
You wrote:
"Don't get made you people and his friends are clearly EVIL and LORD help your souls."
Its harder and harder to take you seriously, aside from not knowing how to spell correctly, you keep invoking God into your defense of Bates. This is a legal and social matter, not a religious one. Here are some facts that you seem to ignore or won't let your mind accept:
Bates was NOT on duty.
He did NOT wear his uniform.
He did NOT call the local authorities before he shot Bassim.
He approached the group of friends with a gun drawn. The group of friends did NOT approach Mr. Bates or even approach his apartment.
He threatened them first, dressed in only a blue bathrobe. Would you believe what someone was yelling at you if they were wearing a bathrobe and pointing a gun in your face?
The group of friends were INVITED to a party in the "Gated Community" that is actually just an apartment complex.
You keep writing that the kids were "up to no good", but provide absolutely nothing to back up that claim. It seems like your idea of "up to no good" is attending a Friday night party after being invited.
Another thing, you say that on one hand that the kids deserved what they got, but then say the shooting was an accident. Saying that they deserved what they got implies that Bates intended to shoot them. So which is it? Did he make a mistake or did he intend to shoot the unarmed group of kids?
Lets just say that Bates shot Bassim accidentally, which is completely crazy since Bates was pointing the gun at Bassim point blank range, Bates is STILL guilty of manslaughter.
Also, you seem to not like people protesting to the DA or the Sheriff's department? If Bates is so innocent, why would you say it is "EVIL" for Bassim's supporters to put pressure on elected officials to act? Why do you care? As citizens of Orange County, it is perfectly legal to protest and pressure officials that are elected into their position.
It seems like you are going through some cognitive dissonance in trying to support Bates. You must know him personally, or are part of his family or friends. If this is true, I feel sorry that you have to defend a brutal killer.
I have another question, since Bates is an officer, and has superiors he reports to, did Douglas Bates go outside to "investigate" a party after being told to by his authorities? Or did he decide to by himself? This would be strange since Bates works at Los Angeles International Airport inspecting passports, and has NO authority in Orange County, Mission Viejo, or the state of California. He is a federal officer, not a state or local officer.
You say that any officer would have gone outside, but what prompted him to do so? From all the accounts I have heard, before Bates approached the group of friends, there was no evidence of anyone in danger, no evidence anyone intending to hurt others or themselves.
It seems more likely that Bates was enraged that there was *noise* outside due to a party. Noise is not enough for him come out with a gun in hand. If noise and commotion was the only thing that was an issue, Bates should have called and complained to the local police. He could have called the rental office and complained of noise the next morning. But he didn't do that, he rushed out of his apartment with his gun and badge in hand, grossly abusing whatever little power our government gave him.
"Bassim or Brassim wouldn't have charged at Bates to get the gun it wouldn't have went off. Get the story right."
So are you saying that God is on the side of anyone who kills someone if they "charge" him or her? Is there a missing matador commandment that was lost over time?
You wrote:
"Don't get made you people and his friends are clearly EVIL and LORD help your souls."
Its harder and harder to take you seriously, aside from not knowing how to spell correctly, you keep invoking God into your defense of Bates. This is a legal and social matter, not a religious one. Here are some facts that you seem to ignore or won't let your mind accept:
Bates was NOT on duty.
He did NOT wear his uniform.
He did NOT call the local authorities before he shot Bassim.
He approached the group of friends with a gun drawn. The group of friends did NOT approach Mr. Bates or even approach his apartment.
He threatened them first, dressed in only a blue bathrobe. Would you believe what someone was yelling at you if they were wearing a bathrobe and pointing a gun in your face?
The group of friends were INVITED to a party in the "Gated Community" that is actually just an apartment complex.
You keep writing that the kids were "up to no good", but provide absolutely nothing to back up that claim. It seems like your idea of "up to no good" is attending a Friday night party after being invited.
Another thing, you say that on one hand that the kids deserved what they got, but then say the shooting was an accident. Saying that they deserved what they got implies that Bates intended to shoot them. So which is it? Did he make a mistake or did he intend to shoot the unarmed group of kids?
Lets just say that Bates shot Bassim accidentally, which is completely crazy since Bates was pointing the gun at Bassim point blank range, Bates is STILL guilty of manslaughter.
Also, you seem to not like people protesting to the DA or the Sheriff's department? If Bates is so innocent, why would you say it is "EVIL" for Bassim's supporters to put pressure on elected officials to act? Why do you care? As citizens of Orange County, it is perfectly legal to protest and pressure officials that are elected into their position.
It seems like you are going through some cognitive dissonance in trying to support Bates. You must know him personally, or are part of his family or friends. If this is true, I feel sorry that you have to defend a brutal killer.
I have another question, since Bates is an officer, and has superiors he reports to, did Douglas Bates go outside to "investigate" a party after being told to by his authorities? Or did he decide to by himself? This would be strange since Bates works at Los Angeles International Airport inspecting passports, and has NO authority in Orange County, Mission Viejo, or the state of California. He is a federal officer, not a state or local officer.
You say that any officer would have gone outside, but what prompted him to do so? From all the accounts I have heard, before Bates approached the group of friends, there was no evidence of anyone in danger, no evidence anyone intending to hurt others or themselves.
It seems more likely that Bates was enraged that there was *noise* outside due to a party. Noise is not enough for him come out with a gun in hand. If noise and commotion was the only thing that was an issue, Bates should have called and complained to the local police. He could have called the rental office and complained of noise the next morning. But he didn't do that, he rushed out of his apartment with his gun and badge in hand, grossly abusing whatever little power our government gave him.
An-unarmed kid gets killed by a Fed for being Arab American and not only does he not get charged but there are biggots all over the place defending him.... This isnt a case of a kid trying to get away from a cop who shot him... this wasnt an accident... this is a case of a Klansman on the federal payrolling realizing he could get away with murder, killing a Arab American kid for the fun of it and then going back inside after the murder and laughing about how as a Fed he can lynch Arabs with no repurcussions
What you can do
1) Contact the Orange County DA's office and ask what is being done about the shooting of Bassim Chmait. Let them know your name, and where you are from. Contact information:
Main office phone number: 714-834-3600
Email: tony.rackauckas [at] da.ocgov.com
2) Contact the Orange County Sheriff's Department. Let them know you are unhappy and suspicious with how they are handling the case.
Contact information:
Public Information/Public Affairs Office Jim Amormino, Director:
(714) 647-7042
SOUTH OPERATIONS DIVISION: (949) 425-1800
Email: ocsouthoper [at] ocsd.org
3) Write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper, detailing how you feel about this incident. If you are in Southern California, write the Orange County Register or the Los Angeles Times. Click here for Newspaper contact information.
4) If you live locally to Orange County, Please feel free to attend organized events in support of Bassim's Chmait's family, friends, and community. Click here to see an updated schedule of events.
http://www.justiceforbassim.com/whatyoucando.htm
1) Contact the Orange County DA's office and ask what is being done about the shooting of Bassim Chmait. Let them know your name, and where you are from. Contact information:
Main office phone number: 714-834-3600
Email: tony.rackauckas [at] da.ocgov.com
2) Contact the Orange County Sheriff's Department. Let them know you are unhappy and suspicious with how they are handling the case.
Contact information:
Public Information/Public Affairs Office Jim Amormino, Director:
(714) 647-7042
SOUTH OPERATIONS DIVISION: (949) 425-1800
Email: ocsouthoper [at] ocsd.org
3) Write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper, detailing how you feel about this incident. If you are in Southern California, write the Orange County Register or the Los Angeles Times. Click here for Newspaper contact information.
4) If you live locally to Orange County, Please feel free to attend organized events in support of Bassim's Chmait's family, friends, and community. Click here to see an updated schedule of events.
http://www.justiceforbassim.com/whatyoucando.htm
You know you can actually go straight to hell Brad. He had every right to go outside and inspect the freaking noise your rotten friends were making. It was an accident they started it I suppose the cut lip was a result of a self inflected hit. Yea right I don't think so. Go to hell like I said before. YOU ARE EVIL AND ARE AN IDIOT..........
WHO ARE YOU NO ONE WAS LAUGHING AT ANYONE.
THIS WAS AN ACCIDENT. YOU DON'T KNOW THE FACTS. SO DON'T GO THERE. THOSE ARAB WERE LOOKING FOR TROUBLE. ORANGE COUNTY HAS STATED IN THE PAST THEY HAVE NOTHING BUT TROUBLE WITH YOU PEOPLE ALWAYS STARTING TROUBLE.
I AM NOT BATES DON'T EVEN LIVE IN MISSION VIEJO. I AM CLEARY AN AMERICAN CITIZIN WHO DEFENDS BATES. LIKE i SAID THOSE KIDS CHARGED AT HIM. GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT. I DON'T HAVE TO HIDE BEHIND ANY INTERNET SITE OKAY
"THOSE ARAB WERE LOOKING FOR TROUBLE"
I'm sure thats why Bates went out and hung himself an Arab. You people make me sick.
I'm sure thats why Bates went out and hung himself an Arab. You people make me sick.
OK first of all who are you people. First of all by observing the board how can Brad say Brassim people didn't attack Bates. Clearly you have by the articles in the paper accusing him of laughing and acting as if nothing happen. Why were his people holding signs outside of the DA office saying Bates was a murder and killer?? Please tell me this. This to me is attacking him. Were you there at the scene of the crime?? or are you going on clear speclation. I believe it was an accident and hey things happen. It is unfortunate that Brassim died by they had no right charging at an officer with a Badge it doesn't matter if he was local or not. I don't know where you people get off acting as if Brassim was such an Angel. I don't believe butter melted in his mouth. Why do you put him on top of the world and say hateful things about Bates. Well after clearly reviewing everything. I have to say I am on Bates side and I know GOD will take care of everything.
No crime here... an off duty federal employee (not even a cop) kills a kid because of a noise complaint and then goes inside and tells the nieghbors to shut up... oh, I forgot, its Orange County where killing someone isnt a big deal unless they are white.
I mean. Douglas Bates killed someone. He KILLED SOMEONE. But HEY who cares, it was an Arab American kid and it's Orange County. No need for a real investigation. I mean who cares, he wasn't white.
I mean. Douglas Bates killed someone. He KILLED SOMEONE. But HEY who cares, it was an Arab American kid and it's Orange County. No need for a real investigation. I mean who cares, he wasn't white.
First of all learn how to spell.Whatever those kids were looking for trouble. Bates has GOD on his side
Which god would that be? Do you worship some sort of strange God that delights in bloodshed. I'm guessing Bates killed this guy because Bates was a racist motherfucker and not because wanted to sacrifice a human to your fucked up God.
But the two-term Orange County sheriff has some terrible secrets, one of which the Weekly revealed in an online story ("Sheriff Con") on Feb. 23.
That article described new evidence suggesting Carona lied about his knowledge of a minor Oct. 26, 2003, drug-bust cover-up. The incident involved Greg Haidl, a son of one of the sheriff’s best friends: millionaire Don Haidl, who was at the time an assistant sheriff. An OC deputy sheriff found Haidl, then 18 years old and on bail for allegedly gang raping an unconscious minor, trespassing in a San Clemente industrial park. Nearby, the deputy discovered Haidl’s keys, wallet, and a baggie of marijuana and a pipe, but Haidl was not arrested or cited and instead chauffeured home. Later, department officials doctored the official crime log to conceal the event and, after reporters’ inquiries, drafted a new crime report, eliminating any reference to Haidl’s drugs and backdating the record.
http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/05/25/news-moxley.php
That article described new evidence suggesting Carona lied about his knowledge of a minor Oct. 26, 2003, drug-bust cover-up. The incident involved Greg Haidl, a son of one of the sheriff’s best friends: millionaire Don Haidl, who was at the time an assistant sheriff. An OC deputy sheriff found Haidl, then 18 years old and on bail for allegedly gang raping an unconscious minor, trespassing in a San Clemente industrial park. Nearby, the deputy discovered Haidl’s keys, wallet, and a baggie of marijuana and a pipe, but Haidl was not arrested or cited and instead chauffeured home. Later, department officials doctored the official crime log to conceal the event and, after reporters’ inquiries, drafted a new crime report, eliminating any reference to Haidl’s drugs and backdating the record.
http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/05/25/news-moxley.php
First of all there is only one GOD you sick SOB.. YOU are clearly the DEVIL so your WORDS don't mean nothing. GO back to being a lowlife that you are!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eat them WORDS
When you hear Orange County residents talk about someone being a "good Christian" they dont mean someone who is kind to strangers and helps the poor, they mean someone like David Duke or Mathew Hale. Someone who will stand up for the rich white middle class by lynching African Americans or guning down Arab American kids for sport. The mainstream media ignores cases like this and usualy just reports on the cases where they can claim the kids had guns ( like http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/03/45/news-schou.php ) since it covers up the pattern. In most cities a killing of a kid by a cop would at least make news for a few days even if the shooting was in self defense, but when the city is in Orange County it doesnt even matter if nobody claims the mudered kid had a gun. For the Douglas Bates' of the world, a colored kid walking though a white neighborhood is violating one of the most basic rules of the Orange County Klan. There will be no real investigation since Bates was just carrying out what the police there see as an unwritten law; Bassim Chmait crossed the line when he entered a white neighborhood and the DA wont prosecute since for him Bates' was just enforcing Orange County's brand of Southern justice.
It is one thing to be hostile and uneducated in your opions or thoughts! It is another to call GOD fucked up.. I believe in only one GOD he comes from the HOLY BIBLE. Keep your rantings and your idiolgy to yourself. It is embarrassing to you. How about this find a scripture any scripture and read it, learn something. How would you know if someone was racist? Why because this kid was Arab American? Give me a break that is a stretch. Stop hiding behind the fact he is Arab. So what. Bad things happen to all races all the time. If you hate orange county so much people then move there are plenty of other places to live. I guess if you are from Compton you are automatically a drug dealer or stick up kid. You ca not judge people on where they are from or where they live. Its apparent alot of people on this thread need to grow up. Are you a racist?, sounds like it? Please dont post anything else if it is not intelligent are shrouded in fact. There is alot of I heard throughout this board. Thank GOD that more people arent in jail based on I heards.. People lie, people make up things to support there own agendies and yes some people are just plain EVIL. I dont think opions should be based on things you hear. the only one that actually knows the truth and is unbiased about is GOD IN HEAVEN....I guess when you get right down to it that is all that really matters!!!! Justice will be served but not based on temper tantrums and slandering someones name. It does not work like that. I am proud to be an american thats what makes this country great and sets it aside from all others everyone has a voice even if you scary are sad.Dont be so judgemental.
An unarmed kid was murdered by an off duty customes officer and your saying this was God's will? I know someone who is going to hell for taking God's name in vain.
Don't even go there. NO one called GOD fucked up. Read right. I love GOD don't know about you. How dare you even say about people being judgemental when you people have Bates tried and convicted. SO don't act so rightous to me cause I am not the ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!
shut up and keep your comments to yourself
To Sarah and "A Christian":
Defending someone for murdering an unarmed kid is bad enough but to use God's name as an excuse... I mean, you keep yelling GOD this and GOD that as if you can smear his name though all the shit you want with no consequences. Do you really think GOD will forgive you when you use his name in vain so much? I'm sure this will go in one ear and out the other, but good Christians dont throw the name of God around as lightly as you do. Even if you really believe in something, to use Gods name in an argument is not something thats looked kindly upon. At work if you used the boss's name like this all the time it would be called being a kiss ass, but when you do it with Lord's name its a quick path to Hell.
Defending someone for murdering an unarmed kid is bad enough but to use God's name as an excuse... I mean, you keep yelling GOD this and GOD that as if you can smear his name though all the shit you want with no consequences. Do you really think GOD will forgive you when you use his name in vain so much? I'm sure this will go in one ear and out the other, but good Christians dont throw the name of God around as lightly as you do. Even if you really believe in something, to use Gods name in an argument is not something thats looked kindly upon. At work if you used the boss's name like this all the time it would be called being a kiss ass, but when you do it with Lord's name its a quick path to Hell.
NO ONE WOULD EVER CALL GOD FUCKED HIM. I LOVE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU. YOU PEOPLE ARE CLEARLY EVIL
I DON'T HAVE TO DEFEND MYSELF TO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD. I WILL SAY WHAT I LIKE HOW I LIKE AND WHEN I LIKE. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN DON'T READ IT. DO YOU GET THAT. MORAN ONCE AGAIN
I think the posts above speak for themselves
"Shai Saturday, Feb. 26, 2005 at 6:57 PM
The officer is a good hearted Christian. ... You foreigners seem to always come to our country and start trouble.... WHatever you have to say you will be going straight to hell. How about that."
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1721915_comment.php#1723874
"
by A Christian Saturday, Feb. 26, 2005 at 8:15 PM
All of us would like to believe that a family member was oh so great or innocent when they feel they are a victim of wrongdoing. As far as I am concerned these comments are nothing more then terroristic threats ...GOD ...GOD says...GOD HAS REIN OVER THIS WORLD...He and ONLY he will have the LAST WORD !!!!!...GOD DEALS IN THE TRUTH ...GOD..."
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1721915_comment.php#1723877
"
by Shai Sunday, Feb. 27, 2005 at 2:20 PM
.... First those kids didnt' live there and had no BUSINESS BEING IN A GATED COMMUNITY FROM THE GET GO."
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1721915_comment.php#1723998
"
by Sarah Sunday, Feb. 27, 2005 at 4:16 PM
...I am on Bates side and I know GOD will take care of everything"
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1721915_comment.php#1724017
"Shai Saturday, Feb. 26, 2005 at 6:57 PM
The officer is a good hearted Christian. ... You foreigners seem to always come to our country and start trouble.... WHatever you have to say you will be going straight to hell. How about that."
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1721915_comment.php#1723874
"
by A Christian Saturday, Feb. 26, 2005 at 8:15 PM
All of us would like to believe that a family member was oh so great or innocent when they feel they are a victim of wrongdoing. As far as I am concerned these comments are nothing more then terroristic threats ...GOD ...GOD says...GOD HAS REIN OVER THIS WORLD...He and ONLY he will have the LAST WORD !!!!!...GOD DEALS IN THE TRUTH ...GOD..."
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1721915_comment.php#1723877
"
by Shai Sunday, Feb. 27, 2005 at 2:20 PM
.... First those kids didnt' live there and had no BUSINESS BEING IN A GATED COMMUNITY FROM THE GET GO."
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1721915_comment.php#1723998
"
by Sarah Sunday, Feb. 27, 2005 at 4:16 PM
...I am on Bates side and I know GOD will take care of everything"
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1721915_comment.php#1724017
I CAN USE GOD'S NAME WHENEVER I LIKE. YOU HOLD NO POWER TO ME. YOU MEAN NOTHING TO ME AT ALL. YOU ARE JUST A NOBODY. YOU WILL GO TO HELL YOU PEOPLE CALL BATES A MURDERER. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW HIM AT ALL. SO DON'T GO AROUND BEING JUDGEMENTAL.
Blasphemous and racist I don not think so!! Do you even know what that word means. Racists I made no racists comments at all maybe reading comprehension isnt your strong suit.Are you upset that I believe that the truth will prevail because GOD will make it so and it will not be done with using pressure tactics because of what you feel is justice or your various versions of the truth!! It does not matter who gets upset about it he is the TRUTH period. So please get a grip and get the facts straight or at least what other people write before putting them under your subjects. How irresponsible and ignorrant is that?
"It is also blasphemous to make use of God's name to cover up criminal practices, to reduce peoples to servitude, to torture persons or put them to death. The misuse of God's name to commit a crime can provoke others to repudiate religion.
Blasphemy is contrary to the respect due God and his holy name. It is in itself a grave sin."
"You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not acquit anyone who misuses his name. "
http://www.stjohnadulted.org/cmd_03.htm
Even if you dont believe Bates commited a crime, to put forward the name of the Lord to defend even an accidental killing is taking God's name in vain.
In this case the shooting wasnt accidental. You are attempting to argue it was provoked but have not put forth any evidence of any real provocation since the man who was killed did not have a gun, a knife or any other weapon. Was the provocation merely walking through a gated community? If Douglas Bates is someone you wish to praise with the name of God, how do you explain his actions after the murder. He didnt call the police or an ambulance and showed no actions to indicate he took the taking of a human life as a serious event.
Blasphemy is contrary to the respect due God and his holy name. It is in itself a grave sin."
"You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not acquit anyone who misuses his name. "
http://www.stjohnadulted.org/cmd_03.htm
Even if you dont believe Bates commited a crime, to put forward the name of the Lord to defend even an accidental killing is taking God's name in vain.
In this case the shooting wasnt accidental. You are attempting to argue it was provoked but have not put forth any evidence of any real provocation since the man who was killed did not have a gun, a knife or any other weapon. Was the provocation merely walking through a gated community? If Douglas Bates is someone you wish to praise with the name of God, how do you explain his actions after the murder. He didnt call the police or an ambulance and showed no actions to indicate he took the taking of a human life as a serious event.
I am not throwing GODS name around you ignorrant fool. Waht argument I thought that all you people wanted was justice by that comment is sounds like you want a fight. Calling someone a murderer is all right thought because you have this base on first hand knowledge of the truth. It's not GOD this and GOD that..GOD is part of everything in this world rather we are doing good or commiting sin he is ever present. So sorry if using GOD to state that he knows the truth and it will come out offends you. YOU think GOD are not my GOD and I dont answer to you!! You or noone else can tell someone what a quick path to hellis because you do not know. You do not know what personal relationships anyone has with GOD except your own. You think GOD takes kindly to all that hate you are spewing based on what YOU THINK YOU KNOW?? I wqould think long and hard about that and that goes for anyone on this site that believes calling someone a murderer based on opinion and putting out there as fact is the right thing to do at all. So you are preaching to the wrong one GOD is a forgiving and loving GOD..I NEVER said that GOD condoned murder or anything like that. You took it that way because apparently you are jaded and really ready to label someone you do not even know. So keep the personal attacks to yourself!!!! You single out me and sarah yet chime in with all the hate throughout this entire message board. SAD SAD SAD...
"I am not throwing GODS name around you ignorrant fool. ...GOD ...GOD ...GOD...GOD...YOU think GOD are not my GOD and I dont answer to you!! You or noone else can tell someone what a quick path to hellis because you do not know. ....GOD...GOD ...GOD...GOD....GOD....SAD SAD SAD..."
Law enforcement all to often murders people assuming that they will be let off since they can always claim it was in self-defense or an accident.
Here is a list of some of those killed by law enforcement in S California in the late 90s. Many more have been murdered by the police since this list was compiled:
http://stolenlives.org/read/index.php?action=show...
Here is a list of some of those killed by law enforcement in S California in the late 90s. Many more have been murdered by the police since this list was compiled:
http://stolenlives.org/read/index.php?action=show...
All these "Christians" posting here keep going off about forgiveness and how Douglass Bates should be forgiven for murdering Bassim Chmait, but when a white person gets killed by someone who isnt in law enforcement they are the first in line to cheer on the death penality?
When an Arab American gets killed one sees people above blaming him for his own death because he was " looking for trouble as usual", or "IN A GATED COMMUNITY" where he didnt live. Excuses for his murder have included "HE is still not american. Get that okay!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and "You foreigners seem to always come to our country and start trouble."
There are always excuses when the murderer is a cop (or in this case an off duty customs official)., but when the accused is African American, the same "Christians" show up in front of the state pen with signs saying how much they want to see someone die.
The same people who talk of forgiveness of cops who kill are also usually the same people who rally around the flag and demand bombs get dropped on other countries without any worried about "collateral damage". The 1500 or so US soliders dead from the Iraq war barely bother them and they dont give a care in the world for the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis.
When an Arab American gets killed one sees people above blaming him for his own death because he was " looking for trouble as usual", or "IN A GATED COMMUNITY" where he didnt live. Excuses for his murder have included "HE is still not american. Get that okay!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and "You foreigners seem to always come to our country and start trouble."
There are always excuses when the murderer is a cop (or in this case an off duty customs official)., but when the accused is African American, the same "Christians" show up in front of the state pen with signs saying how much they want to see someone die.
The same people who talk of forgiveness of cops who kill are also usually the same people who rally around the flag and demand bombs get dropped on other countries without any worried about "collateral damage". The 1500 or so US soliders dead from the Iraq war barely bother them and they dont give a care in the world for the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis.
YOu know I would never take GOD's name in VAIN. whatever you say doesn't mean anything to me. YOu don't hold my fate or BATES. SO get over it. whatever to you. We can be on this board all night posting stuff. I hope this website gets shut down!!!!!!!!
I AM SO SICK OF YOU PEOPLE COMPARING WHAT EVER ELSE HAPPENS IN THE WORLD. STICK TO THE ISSUE AT HAND ONE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANOTHER. IT WAS A ACCIDENT DOES THAT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO BAD MOUTH BATES AND CALL HIM A KILLER AND TELL LIES. I DON'T THINK SO I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF JUDGEMENTAL PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD.
STOP BRINGING STUFF UP THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS CASE.
WHATEVER DON'T ACT LIKE YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN MORE THEN ANYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD
THE PERSON HOLDING A SIGN. WOW! IT IS SO NICE TO SEE YOU HOLDING A SIGN ABOUT YOURSELF. HA HA CALLING YOURSELF A MORAN.. HA HA
I'm directing myself to Shai (who's pictured above with the placard) and the rest of the Christians on this board who have come to the merciful defense of my client:
You're help is no longer desired. You all are simply too stupid to be of any real assistance. Change sides or something.
You're help is no longer desired. You all are simply too stupid to be of any real assistance. Change sides or something.
Mr Bate has no risk of going to jail. He's white and killed a colored person. No jury in Orange County would ever convict him.
Boy you are a idiot forreal. You can't even get the colors right.
I am a born-again Christian and have been my entire adult life, and it sickens me to read these ignorant posts bringing God's name into the fold. This situation has nothing to do with religion it has everything to do with police abuse. This (off-duty) officer obviously believed he was above the law and for whatever reason be it racism,hate, mental retardation,a moment of rage, whatever reason he felt blantantly misused his authority by brandishing a weapon and using it against this unarmed kid. This is an open and shut case and for the life of me i cannot understand why the D.A.'s office is taking such a long time to prosecute this man. Mr. Bates has a real problem there are demons biting at his soul and instead these posters invoking God's name into this conversation, what they should really do is invoke Satan's because it was Satan who tempted Mr. Bates to do what he did and it looks like Mr. Bates has a lost soul. My deepest simpathies to the Chmait family.
I am currently a Madrid Apartments resident, a former law enforcement officer, and have been following this case closely. It is very unfortunate that this event happened, and regardless of who is at fault, my heart goes out to bassim's family, and also to bates. At this point we only know what one side of the story is and we probably only will hear the other side upon completion of the ocsd and da's investigation. One thing seems to hold true in the accounts given by bassim's friends is that their group was confrontational towards the officer, who was armed, verbally identified himself as a police officer, and was displaying his id. Anyone being confrontational to an outnumbered armed individual is putting themselves at risk of being shot. I would say based on their own account, that it was Bassim's friends that are responsible for Bassim's death, a reasonable person would comply with an armed individual who identified himself as police. It is Bate's job as a law enforcement officer, regardless of whether or not he is on duty, to enforce the law, and he is required to do so by law. I personally feel it was a mistake to not call local law enforcement before going outside, however, what he did was legal, and if he feared for his safety, being confronted by 4-6 men, not complying with his orders, armed or not, the shooting would be justified. It could have even been an accidental discharge, that occured during a struggle. Often it is easy to look back on an incident in hindsight and say what should or should not have been done. I could easily see myself making the same decision as Bates, to go outside, see what was going on, and try to resolve whatever situation is there by myself. After all this is south oc, one of the safest places in the usa to live, you expect people to comply with you. While Bassim's website says that neighbors also confirm the author's statements, I have not talked to any neighbors that actually witnessed the event, and from my understanding ocsd was having difficulty in locating independent witnesses, most of Madrid is asleep at 1am. I actually almost went to check my mail about 1, before I went to sleep that night. I wish I had, maybe I would have been able assist Bates in handling the situation and prevent this tragedy from occuring if I had witnessed the confrontation.
I thought I would also respond to Brad's facts listed in his above post.
"Bates was NOT on duty."
doesn't matter Law Enforcement officers are on duty 24 hours a day, if they witness a crime greater than an infraction, they are generally required to handle it in some way by law and by their agency's policy, regardless if working or not. The crime here was the verbal disturbance he heard outside his apartment.
"He did NOT wear his uniform."
Law enforcement officers are not required to wear uniforms when acting in an enforcement role on or off duty, only to verbally identify themselves, and present proper identification. Agencies usually have specific policies regarding how such incidents are to be handled.
"He did NOT call the local authorities before he shot Bassim."
While probably he should have, there is no requirement for him to do so by law. His agency may have a policy regarding this though, which at most would make him eligible for disciplinary action, but not arrest.
"He approached the group of friends with a gun drawn"
Whenever you are performing in the role of law enforcement officer, before you perform any law enforcement action, you ALWAYS have your gun, on or off duty.
"Lets just say that Bates shot Bassim accidentally, which is completely crazy since Bates was pointing the gun at Bassim point blank range, Bates is STILL guilty of manslaughter"
This is not true, in order for Bates to be charged with manslaughter, he has to be commiting another crime which resulted in the accidental death. Bates confronting the group armed is not a crime, its his job. Actually technically Bassim's friends are guilty of manslaughter as Bassim was killed while they were commiting 2 crimes, pc 415, creating a disturbance, and pc148(a)(1)Every person who willfully resists, delays, or
obstructs any public officer, peace officer (by telling the officer to put his gun down they are guilty of this section) and even though the group were "invited guests", the party itself was in violation of the Madrid tenants lease agreement, you are restricted in the number of guests you can have, and the noise level, and they were not being escorted by a tenant, so you can probably add trespassing on to that.
"I have another question, since Bates is an officer, and has superiors he reports to, did Douglas Bates go outside to "investigate" a party after being told to by his authorities? Or did he decide to by himself? This would be strange since Bates works at Los Angeles International Airport inspecting passports, and has NO authority in Orange County, Mission Viejo, or the state of California. He is a federal officer, not a state or local officer."
Bates does not need to ask his supervisors in order to investigate if a crime is immediately being commited, nor must he be dispatched. ALL federal law enforcement officers are granted law enforcement powers by the state of California, ANYWHERE in the state of California PC830.8(4)
They are more restricted by their own agency's policies. (fyi california police officers/sheriff deputies also have enforcement powers anywhere in the state, not limited to their jurisdictions).
"Bates was NOT on duty."
doesn't matter Law Enforcement officers are on duty 24 hours a day, if they witness a crime greater than an infraction, they are generally required to handle it in some way by law and by their agency's policy, regardless if working or not. The crime here was the verbal disturbance he heard outside his apartment.
"He did NOT wear his uniform."
Law enforcement officers are not required to wear uniforms when acting in an enforcement role on or off duty, only to verbally identify themselves, and present proper identification. Agencies usually have specific policies regarding how such incidents are to be handled.
"He did NOT call the local authorities before he shot Bassim."
While probably he should have, there is no requirement for him to do so by law. His agency may have a policy regarding this though, which at most would make him eligible for disciplinary action, but not arrest.
"He approached the group of friends with a gun drawn"
Whenever you are performing in the role of law enforcement officer, before you perform any law enforcement action, you ALWAYS have your gun, on or off duty.
"Lets just say that Bates shot Bassim accidentally, which is completely crazy since Bates was pointing the gun at Bassim point blank range, Bates is STILL guilty of manslaughter"
This is not true, in order for Bates to be charged with manslaughter, he has to be commiting another crime which resulted in the accidental death. Bates confronting the group armed is not a crime, its his job. Actually technically Bassim's friends are guilty of manslaughter as Bassim was killed while they were commiting 2 crimes, pc 415, creating a disturbance, and pc148(a)(1)Every person who willfully resists, delays, or
obstructs any public officer, peace officer (by telling the officer to put his gun down they are guilty of this section) and even though the group were "invited guests", the party itself was in violation of the Madrid tenants lease agreement, you are restricted in the number of guests you can have, and the noise level, and they were not being escorted by a tenant, so you can probably add trespassing on to that.
"I have another question, since Bates is an officer, and has superiors he reports to, did Douglas Bates go outside to "investigate" a party after being told to by his authorities? Or did he decide to by himself? This would be strange since Bates works at Los Angeles International Airport inspecting passports, and has NO authority in Orange County, Mission Viejo, or the state of California. He is a federal officer, not a state or local officer."
Bates does not need to ask his supervisors in order to investigate if a crime is immediately being commited, nor must he be dispatched. ALL federal law enforcement officers are granted law enforcement powers by the state of California, ANYWHERE in the state of California PC830.8(4)
They are more restricted by their own agency's policies. (fyi california police officers/sheriff deputies also have enforcement powers anywhere in the state, not limited to their jurisdictions).
Wow...first off I belive that God should be kept out of all legal defenses. Whether or not the shooting was accidental, the incident still needs to be investigated. Press releases have stated observations form "eye witnesses," however it's hard to confirm reports without an investigation. From what I've read there was some sort of party going on which was creating a disturbance to the public. Bates went out armed and off duty to see what was going on. He should have first approached them unarmed as a concerned citizen. He saw the boys and figured that they were up to no good, whether they were or not has not been confimed, He approached them hotheaded, with a drawn gun. Yes, while obstructing the duty of a legal officer is considered a crime, I doubt the boys were aware that they couldn't ask why they had a gun pointed at them. The boys probably figured that he couldn't do anything considering he wasn't in uniform and his badge was that of a customs duties officer. I don't believe that was Bates did was within his legal authority, but I could be wrong. Let's go with the scenario that Bassim charged Bates, first off police officers are geneally advised to first limit the the person's mobility by shooting them in the shoulder or leg, if Bates was afraind that he was in danger that is what he should have done, police officers are usually not advised to shoot the person in the head unless in a hostage situation...I think (it sounds right). Scenario 2, Bassim tried to take the gun, if this occured, then it is highly unlikely that Bassim would have been shot in the head at a point blank range, maybe the chest, shoulder, or stomach, but not the head. Ultimately both parties when about the situation in the wrong way. The thing I don't understand is why Bates wasn't questioned, why take so long to investigate, why the feds don't care about the eyewitness testimony, and why are so many people concerned about the color of someone's skin, or their ethnicity? We are all human, race shouldn't matter. I read every single coment posted on this site and I was incredibly disturbed by what some pleople had the audacity to say. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I have to except that. Let's take this incident and put race aside. What it comes down to is that a human was killed by another human over the issue of noisey neighbors. Sounds silly, huh? I think the case should be investigated first with out considering the color of the participants skin, then after all that is figured out, the issue of racism can be factored in. It's a damn shame what our society has come to, I only hope that people will learn to see beyond skin color, race, and ethnicity. I just wanted to say my piece, I don't believe that I said anything offensive, but I apologize if I did. If you have something to say to me in response to this post, then I will approach each comment in a rational and open minded fashion, however please refrain from judging or bad mouthing me, that's just uncalled for. Neither I nor anyone else who posts a comment should receive vulgarity in response, it only fuels the fire, making things worse.
~Love~Peace~Happiness~Sarah
~Love~Peace~Happiness~Sarah
A question for the former officer.
Is it not protocol to at least bring the suspect back to the station for questioning?
Let's say you are on the job and you shot and injured a person committing a crime. Aren't you required to make a report or statement or something regarding it?
Just curious as to what the proper conduct is. I'm trying to stay neutral to this case, but it just boggles me that Bates was not brought back to make a statement.
Thanks.
David
Is it not protocol to at least bring the suspect back to the station for questioning?
Let's say you are on the job and you shot and injured a person committing a crime. Aren't you required to make a report or statement or something regarding it?
Just curious as to what the proper conduct is. I'm trying to stay neutral to this case, but it just boggles me that Bates was not brought back to make a statement.
Thanks.
David
Give us a break with all this God business. If there were a God, she would have protected 100,000 innocent Iraqis from being killed by the saintly USA. Start taking responsibility for your actions.
This is directed to whomever is defending Mr. Bates and any Law-Enforcement officers that may be able to further educate us on this issue.
What is the policy of the police with respect to drug and alcohol testing for any officer involved in an off duty shooting? Is it not S.O.P. (Standard Operating Procedure) to take a alcohol/drug test and file the necessary paperwork as soon as the shooting has taken place?
**Bates never took a drug or alcohol test (breathalizer) on the night of the shooting. This was a crucial mistake on the part of the officer arriving at the scene. If it had been showed that Bates had alcohol in his system the night of the shooting this would confirm reports of him being agressive and wild. If there were no drugs or alcohol found in his system on the night of the shooting this would show that he was in good, sound mind when he shot Bassim in the head.** The fact that SOP was not followed leaves many in the community to speculate that the police did not issue a breathalizer as a courtesy to the officer. Ignoring/refusing to gather evidence is illegal yet no one has brought this fact up.
What is the policy of the homeland security with respect to firearms and when they are allowed to be drawn?
The police for example are supposed to resort to their guns as the absolute last option a series of tools (night stick, pepper spray, tear gas, stun guns, hand cuffs, etc) they have provided to them. As the threat of the situation escilates so too does the force being returned by the officer. In this case the gun was the first thing Bates went for.
I understand your point that if an officer feels his life is in danger he may use deadly force and be within the law however Bates approached the scene of a NOISE DISTURBANCE with his gun drawn. This is an undeniable fact that proves he was the agressor.
Rather than reacting to the situation with the appropriate amount of force Bates automatically escillated the situation to the brink of disaster from the start. It is irrisponsible to blame Bassim's friends for the shooting seeing as to how Bates approached the boys with a gun drawn and that none of the boys were armed.
An officer that arrives at the scene of a noise disturbance is not allowed to point the gun at people and yell obscenities. The fact that Douglas Bates did this makes him and only him responsible for the murder of Bassim Chmait.
The gun is only to be drawn when the officer feels his life is in danger. An officers gun is not to be used recklessly as a threat to strike fear into those it being pointed at. None of the boys were armed so Bates should not have had his gun drawn and pointed at them. This is an obvious abuse of power and brings the words excessive force and police brutality into the case. .
While I agree that this is a tragedy for all sides involved I disagree that it was an accident. An accident would have been the gun falling on the floor and going off. Bates had his gun drawn and pointed at Bassim's head. A shot to the head is intent to kill plain and simple. Intent to kill means murder not manslaughter. As Kevin pointed out earlier, police are trained to only aim for the head when a kill is needed. In this case shooting Bassim in the head was not at all a reasonable or just reaction to an unarmed group of boys accused of being loud.
Further, Bates' account that a struggle broke out and that his gun accidentally discharged fatally killing Bassim is inconsistant with the coranors report. Bassim was shot in the head at point blank range from directly in front. IF Bassim had attempted to take the gun or attack Bates in any way there would have been more evidence of a struggle and the gun shot would have come from an angle other than directly infront of Bassim.
Personally I choose to believe that Bates probably did not intend to kill Bassim . I believe that Bates was drinking on the night of the shooting and on a power trip. It was after 1am and those "up to no good punks" were being loud in his neighborhood. Rather than call the local authorities he decided to handle the situation himself. The alcohol caused him to become more agressive than usual and make some poor descions in the heat of the moment. He probably did not realize he had killed Bassim until it was too late. Regardless of whether or not Bates intended to kill anyone that night he still shot an unarmed boy at point blank range because the boy was being loud.
It was dark, he'd been drinking and 3 or 4 young men were approaching him after he'd already pointed his gun and yelled at them. Words were exchanged, Douglas struck one boy in the head with his pistol. When Bassim stepped in front of his friend to protect him. Bates probably became very scared and preceived this as Bassim coming toward him and pulled the trigger. The entire incident probably went down in a matter of seconds and descions made on both sides were wrong. This again brings me back to the fact that Bates' initial reaction to people being loud in his neighborhood was to point a gun at them and yell obscenities. This was the mistake he made that makes him guilty of at least manslaughter. The fact the he lied about a struggle occurring and that he shot the boy in the head makes him guilty of murder (intent to kill.).
Case closed.
What is the policy of the police with respect to drug and alcohol testing for any officer involved in an off duty shooting? Is it not S.O.P. (Standard Operating Procedure) to take a alcohol/drug test and file the necessary paperwork as soon as the shooting has taken place?
**Bates never took a drug or alcohol test (breathalizer) on the night of the shooting. This was a crucial mistake on the part of the officer arriving at the scene. If it had been showed that Bates had alcohol in his system the night of the shooting this would confirm reports of him being agressive and wild. If there were no drugs or alcohol found in his system on the night of the shooting this would show that he was in good, sound mind when he shot Bassim in the head.** The fact that SOP was not followed leaves many in the community to speculate that the police did not issue a breathalizer as a courtesy to the officer. Ignoring/refusing to gather evidence is illegal yet no one has brought this fact up.
What is the policy of the homeland security with respect to firearms and when they are allowed to be drawn?
The police for example are supposed to resort to their guns as the absolute last option a series of tools (night stick, pepper spray, tear gas, stun guns, hand cuffs, etc) they have provided to them. As the threat of the situation escilates so too does the force being returned by the officer. In this case the gun was the first thing Bates went for.
I understand your point that if an officer feels his life is in danger he may use deadly force and be within the law however Bates approached the scene of a NOISE DISTURBANCE with his gun drawn. This is an undeniable fact that proves he was the agressor.
Rather than reacting to the situation with the appropriate amount of force Bates automatically escillated the situation to the brink of disaster from the start. It is irrisponsible to blame Bassim's friends for the shooting seeing as to how Bates approached the boys with a gun drawn and that none of the boys were armed.
An officer that arrives at the scene of a noise disturbance is not allowed to point the gun at people and yell obscenities. The fact that Douglas Bates did this makes him and only him responsible for the murder of Bassim Chmait.
The gun is only to be drawn when the officer feels his life is in danger. An officers gun is not to be used recklessly as a threat to strike fear into those it being pointed at. None of the boys were armed so Bates should not have had his gun drawn and pointed at them. This is an obvious abuse of power and brings the words excessive force and police brutality into the case. .
While I agree that this is a tragedy for all sides involved I disagree that it was an accident. An accident would have been the gun falling on the floor and going off. Bates had his gun drawn and pointed at Bassim's head. A shot to the head is intent to kill plain and simple. Intent to kill means murder not manslaughter. As Kevin pointed out earlier, police are trained to only aim for the head when a kill is needed. In this case shooting Bassim in the head was not at all a reasonable or just reaction to an unarmed group of boys accused of being loud.
Further, Bates' account that a struggle broke out and that his gun accidentally discharged fatally killing Bassim is inconsistant with the coranors report. Bassim was shot in the head at point blank range from directly in front. IF Bassim had attempted to take the gun or attack Bates in any way there would have been more evidence of a struggle and the gun shot would have come from an angle other than directly infront of Bassim.
Personally I choose to believe that Bates probably did not intend to kill Bassim . I believe that Bates was drinking on the night of the shooting and on a power trip. It was after 1am and those "up to no good punks" were being loud in his neighborhood. Rather than call the local authorities he decided to handle the situation himself. The alcohol caused him to become more agressive than usual and make some poor descions in the heat of the moment. He probably did not realize he had killed Bassim until it was too late. Regardless of whether or not Bates intended to kill anyone that night he still shot an unarmed boy at point blank range because the boy was being loud.
It was dark, he'd been drinking and 3 or 4 young men were approaching him after he'd already pointed his gun and yelled at them. Words were exchanged, Douglas struck one boy in the head with his pistol. When Bassim stepped in front of his friend to protect him. Bates probably became very scared and preceived this as Bassim coming toward him and pulled the trigger. The entire incident probably went down in a matter of seconds and descions made on both sides were wrong. This again brings me back to the fact that Bates' initial reaction to people being loud in his neighborhood was to point a gun at them and yell obscenities. This was the mistake he made that makes him guilty of at least manslaughter. The fact the he lied about a struggle occurring and that he shot the boy in the head makes him guilty of murder (intent to kill.).
Case closed.
Brad wrote:
" Another thing, you say that on one hand that the kids deserved what they got, but then say the shooting was an accident. Saying that they deserved what they got implies that Bates intended to shoot them. So which is it? Did he make a mistake or did he intend to shoot the unarmed group of kids? "
***This is an excellent point. I'm glad someone else noticed it. There is a conflicting arguement put forward by the Bates defense: the shooting was an accident yet the shooting was justified. The shooting was not a "justifiable accident" because Douglas Bates was the agressor in this instance. Douglas Bates responded to a NOISE DISTURBANCE with a loaded gun pointed at an UNARMED boys head. Bates and Bates alone is responsible for the MURDER of Bassim Chmait.***
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Also, from what I've read in this forum:
Shay = luv27me [at] yahoo.com = Shai = NIKKI = WHATEVER = LL = DONT KNOW = DONT THINK SO = fed up
These were all the same person or group of people. If you look at the tone used, time of the posts, and writing style this becomes obvious. There is one person or a small group of RACIST people (family and/or friends ?) who have come to Mr. Bates' defense, none of whom were witnesses to the shooting.
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To whomever said Bates was white and that no jury in Orange County would ever convict him:
You are wrong, from what I understand Mr. Bates is African American. Further, the case is currently being presented before the Grand Jury for an indictment. There is enough evidence to suggest that Bates was in the wrong, if there wasnt the case would have never been brought before the Grand Jury. The Orange County D.A. & Sheriff's Department did not want to have their name on a report that would place a Federal Officer in court for wrongful death and/or murder charges, the case therefore was sent to a Grand Jury for an impartial decision.
" Another thing, you say that on one hand that the kids deserved what they got, but then say the shooting was an accident. Saying that they deserved what they got implies that Bates intended to shoot them. So which is it? Did he make a mistake or did he intend to shoot the unarmed group of kids? "
***This is an excellent point. I'm glad someone else noticed it. There is a conflicting arguement put forward by the Bates defense: the shooting was an accident yet the shooting was justified. The shooting was not a "justifiable accident" because Douglas Bates was the agressor in this instance. Douglas Bates responded to a NOISE DISTURBANCE with a loaded gun pointed at an UNARMED boys head. Bates and Bates alone is responsible for the MURDER of Bassim Chmait.***
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Also, from what I've read in this forum:
Shay = luv27me [at] yahoo.com = Shai = NIKKI = WHATEVER = LL = DONT KNOW = DONT THINK SO = fed up
These were all the same person or group of people. If you look at the tone used, time of the posts, and writing style this becomes obvious. There is one person or a small group of RACIST people (family and/or friends ?) who have come to Mr. Bates' defense, none of whom were witnesses to the shooting.
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To whomever said Bates was white and that no jury in Orange County would ever convict him:
You are wrong, from what I understand Mr. Bates is African American. Further, the case is currently being presented before the Grand Jury for an indictment. There is enough evidence to suggest that Bates was in the wrong, if there wasnt the case would have never been brought before the Grand Jury. The Orange County D.A. & Sheriff's Department did not want to have their name on a report that would place a Federal Officer in court for wrongful death and/or murder charges, the case therefore was sent to a Grand Jury for an impartial decision.
The article was interesting but completely inaccurate. Does your newspaper do any research or did you just write what you had been told? First of all there were five guys not four. They weren't just walking through the complex and laughing. By the way how did they get into a locked gated community? What really happened is this they were yelling and swearing and oh yeah beating up one of the neighbors. Mr Bates ran out of his house to help the person being beaten up. I think that why Mr. Bates is getting such a hard time is that he is an african american man. I could tell you the real details but why bother Mr. Bates is guilty for helping another human being while being black. Funny how a liberal paper is only liberal when it is beating up on black folks. In this day and age blacks are still fighting the same ingrained prejudiced that they have been fighting for centuries if a white woman had done exactly what Mr. Bates did we would call her a hero. But she would be white. Or if he was a white guy running out to help a black guy getting beat up he would be a hero. Mr. Bates did the righ thing to bad a racist white society is branding him a murderer. By the way Mr. Bates was the first 911 call. Oh yeah what about the five police cars that were sent to the hospital becasue the young boys were screaming and acting crazy. Or what about the fact that they refused to give the police blood test because they said we had been partying with drugs. Excuse me if I think drugs might affect your actions. Oh yeah why didn't you write about how they beat Mr. Bates up? If he went out and shot someone dead than why aren't they all dead? Becausse it didn't happen the way they say use some common sense. If he was some badass who went out to kill these boys they would all be dead. Finally Mr. Bates doesn't hate Arabs his favorite nephew his hald Saudi. You guys have it all wrong. Just think about the facts
Idoit do you read Bates took a blood test immediately it was the boys who refused to take a drug test because they had been partying with drugs or a least that is what they told police. His gun was not drawn. He did not have powder burns on his hand. The boys pullled the trigger not Bates. Bates's great crime is being black in white america. As ussual he is guilty
Get a clue it went to the DA's office because the DA was given money for his reelection campaign by the Arab Association. It is all about the money. Orange County is known to be a racist police department. If they had any evidence Bates would be in jail.. I feel sorry for the family of the slain man but that doesn't make Bates guilty
Nothing that the Customs Service does would surprise me. The Customs Service operates just like the Mafia - Kiss the Don's ring and you'll go far. Countless Customs employees have testified before Senate and Congressional committees, at nausium. They have in turn rendered reports that this agency is out of controll at the taxpayers expense. Still, nothing is ever done to stop it!
SENATE TESTIMONY
Statement written by Darlene Fitzgerald given at the National Security Whistleblower Press Conference sponsored by the Government Accountability Project (GAP), the Project on Government Oversight (POGO), and the Patrick Henry Center for Whistleblowrs. This testimony was also presented by Senator Grassley, ® Iowa to a Senate Committee.
In 1998 I was running a railroad smuggling investigation. This investigation was being managed under a large scale, multi-agency operation with the Union Pacific Railroad Police, the Burlington Northern Railroad Police, The San Bernardino Police Department and Customs. This operation had received OCDTF status from the U.S. Attorney’s Office, Los Angeles, CA. OCDTF - is a fancy government acronym for Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force. In this operation, we had very high-level information that tons of narcotics were entering the U.S. via pressurized rail tanker cars. We learned that there was a large rail yard in Guadalajara that was controlled by the Arellano-Felix Cartel, and this yard was on of the Cartel’s largest narcotics distribution points. In this yard, hundreds of these cars are loaded with narcotics each week destined for the U.S.
Our information turned out to be very accurate. In April 1998, we seized a pressurized tanker car concealing 8 thousand lbs of marijuana and 34 Kilos of cocaine. Subsequent to making this seizure, this large, successful rail operation and the two criminal investigations under its umbrella were immediately torpedoed by Customs management. An attempted controlled delivery of the seized narcotics was thwarted, my help was pulled, and my partner Ruben Sandoval and I came under immediate pressure, retaliation, and intimidation tactics on an enormous scale when we refused to shut down this operation and cease to do our job.
Several weeks after our first seizure, we identified 5 more suspected tanker cars. These cars were manifested as empty, and they were 5 to 9 tons over weight. I set it up with the Union Pacific rail police to have these cars pressure tested at no cost to the government. Pressure testing is a necessary tool to further profile whether these cars should be bled out and checked. This profiling is necessary do to the fact that it cost approximately 8 to 14 thousand dollars a pop to inspect these cars. To further clarify, these are the long, metal, cylindrical shaped rail cars that many often think as carrying oil. These cars routinely carry a myriad of hazardous materials, and can only be inspected at the very few hazardous material inspection locations that exist on the southern border that also has scales that are necessary to weigh these cars. This is what makes these cars very difficult and dangerous to inspect, a fact that Narco-Traffickers know all too well.
I had these 5 suspected cars, again manifested as empty and 5 to 9 tons over weight, ready to be pressure tested, and I was told not to do my job. Several days later, these cars were released into the commerce of the U.S. uninspected in any way. These cars should have never left that yard without at least being pressure tested. Subsequent to this incident, I was again pressured to shut down my operation, and Customs managers torpedoed my criminal investigations. The U.S. Attorneys office had assigned a very good, very aggressive prosecutor that was appalled as to what was going on. I found myself caught between the U.S. Attorneys Office and my agency.
I chose to continue attempting to run the rail operation. When other loyal Customs employees attempted to assist me on this case, they came under the same retaliation, threats, intimidation, and pressure as Ruben and I. Our careers, reputations, and personal lives were ruined.
What does this have to do with National Security?
Consider this, the number one consumer of narcotics worldwide is the U.S.
The number one way that terrorists fund their illegal activities is through the distribution of narcotics.
Ask yourself this, what happens to the price of any commodity when there’s a choke hold on the supply for any reason, and the demand isn’t being met? Right. The price goes up and quality usually suffers. Ask any street agent working dope today and they will tell you the current price of cocaine, marijuana, and heroin is lower than ever, and the purity is better than ever. This clearly indicates that the supply is easily meeting the demand. This stuff is coming across our imaginary borders by the ton, virtually unaffected by the efforts of U.S. Customs.
What do you have when you fill one of these tanker cars up with 10 thousand lbs. of ammonia nitrate, 100 lbs. of C-4, a shape charge, and place this container under
pressure? The world’s largest pipes bomb. One can place 10 times the amount of explosives into one of the rail tanker cars, than used by Timothy McVay in the Oklahoma City Bombing.
These tanker cars are the perfect instruments for a terrorist attack against the U.S. As our narcotics smuggling investigation has revealed, anyone with cash and phony identification can lease or sublease these cars using a front company as the importer/exporter of record. We were shocked as to just how easy it was for the Narco-traffickers to do this. Knowing the relationship that the terrorists have with the Narco-smuggling cartels, it is not a quantum leap to think that terrorist could easily copy the same modus operandi used by the Narco-traffickers. The terrorist would simply lease/sublease a tanker car and pay cash to set up an account with one of the major railroads. The Railroads and Customs brokers aren’t trained - AT ALL - to look for any type of terrorist profile. This is a customer service industry, pure and simple. The railroad employees taking these orders for accounts make minimum wage, and they are simply “customer service reps.” The Customs brokers aren’t much different. They are required to check almost nothing, have no training in this arena, and have no requirements to fully identify any of their customers.
These rail customer accounts may be set up via the Internet, or over the phone. At no point does anyone in the railroad industry or Customs brokers ever require visual documentation to fully identify who the account holder actually is.
Once a person has set up an account the movement of these cars can be directed REMOTELY via the Internet or telephone. Then they can be moved anywhere in the country with extreme ease. Then the terrorist can remotely move them and if need be, abruptly change the routing of these cars via a simple phone call to their customer service rep or via the Internet, from anywhere in the world. This is truly a recipe for disaster. Terrorists can simply remotely route a hundred of these simultaneously to within a mile or two of a hundred of our national landmarks. They don’t even need a suicide bomber to activate them remotely. Once this is done, the perpetrators will be extremely difficult to trace.
When my brave associates and I tried desperately to bring attention to this, our careers were destroyed. We were virtually shoved out on a limb, and Customs managers laughed in our faces as the limb was cut off. These tanker cars are a Clear and present danger to our national security, as well as what happened to the
Whistleblowers who tried to stop it. The American public must demand accountability, and demand that honest cops trying to do their jobs should not be treated in this fashion.
Darlene Fitzgerald
Former Special Agent
Author: “U.S. Customs, Badge of Dishonor”
(606) 376-9095
SENATE TESTIMONY
Statement written by Darlene Fitzgerald given at the National Security Whistleblower Press Conference sponsored by the Government Accountability Project (GAP), the Project on Government Oversight (POGO), and the Patrick Henry Center for Whistleblowrs. This testimony was also presented by Senator Grassley, ® Iowa to a Senate Committee.
In 1998 I was running a railroad smuggling investigation. This investigation was being managed under a large scale, multi-agency operation with the Union Pacific Railroad Police, the Burlington Northern Railroad Police, The San Bernardino Police Department and Customs. This operation had received OCDTF status from the U.S. Attorney’s Office, Los Angeles, CA. OCDTF - is a fancy government acronym for Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force. In this operation, we had very high-level information that tons of narcotics were entering the U.S. via pressurized rail tanker cars. We learned that there was a large rail yard in Guadalajara that was controlled by the Arellano-Felix Cartel, and this yard was on of the Cartel’s largest narcotics distribution points. In this yard, hundreds of these cars are loaded with narcotics each week destined for the U.S.
Our information turned out to be very accurate. In April 1998, we seized a pressurized tanker car concealing 8 thousand lbs of marijuana and 34 Kilos of cocaine. Subsequent to making this seizure, this large, successful rail operation and the two criminal investigations under its umbrella were immediately torpedoed by Customs management. An attempted controlled delivery of the seized narcotics was thwarted, my help was pulled, and my partner Ruben Sandoval and I came under immediate pressure, retaliation, and intimidation tactics on an enormous scale when we refused to shut down this operation and cease to do our job.
Several weeks after our first seizure, we identified 5 more suspected tanker cars. These cars were manifested as empty, and they were 5 to 9 tons over weight. I set it up with the Union Pacific rail police to have these cars pressure tested at no cost to the government. Pressure testing is a necessary tool to further profile whether these cars should be bled out and checked. This profiling is necessary do to the fact that it cost approximately 8 to 14 thousand dollars a pop to inspect these cars. To further clarify, these are the long, metal, cylindrical shaped rail cars that many often think as carrying oil. These cars routinely carry a myriad of hazardous materials, and can only be inspected at the very few hazardous material inspection locations that exist on the southern border that also has scales that are necessary to weigh these cars. This is what makes these cars very difficult and dangerous to inspect, a fact that Narco-Traffickers know all too well.
I had these 5 suspected cars, again manifested as empty and 5 to 9 tons over weight, ready to be pressure tested, and I was told not to do my job. Several days later, these cars were released into the commerce of the U.S. uninspected in any way. These cars should have never left that yard without at least being pressure tested. Subsequent to this incident, I was again pressured to shut down my operation, and Customs managers torpedoed my criminal investigations. The U.S. Attorneys office had assigned a very good, very aggressive prosecutor that was appalled as to what was going on. I found myself caught between the U.S. Attorneys Office and my agency.
I chose to continue attempting to run the rail operation. When other loyal Customs employees attempted to assist me on this case, they came under the same retaliation, threats, intimidation, and pressure as Ruben and I. Our careers, reputations, and personal lives were ruined.
What does this have to do with National Security?
Consider this, the number one consumer of narcotics worldwide is the U.S.
The number one way that terrorists fund their illegal activities is through the distribution of narcotics.
Ask yourself this, what happens to the price of any commodity when there’s a choke hold on the supply for any reason, and the demand isn’t being met? Right. The price goes up and quality usually suffers. Ask any street agent working dope today and they will tell you the current price of cocaine, marijuana, and heroin is lower than ever, and the purity is better than ever. This clearly indicates that the supply is easily meeting the demand. This stuff is coming across our imaginary borders by the ton, virtually unaffected by the efforts of U.S. Customs.
What do you have when you fill one of these tanker cars up with 10 thousand lbs. of ammonia nitrate, 100 lbs. of C-4, a shape charge, and place this container under
pressure? The world’s largest pipes bomb. One can place 10 times the amount of explosives into one of the rail tanker cars, than used by Timothy McVay in the Oklahoma City Bombing.
These tanker cars are the perfect instruments for a terrorist attack against the U.S. As our narcotics smuggling investigation has revealed, anyone with cash and phony identification can lease or sublease these cars using a front company as the importer/exporter of record. We were shocked as to just how easy it was for the Narco-traffickers to do this. Knowing the relationship that the terrorists have with the Narco-smuggling cartels, it is not a quantum leap to think that terrorist could easily copy the same modus operandi used by the Narco-traffickers. The terrorist would simply lease/sublease a tanker car and pay cash to set up an account with one of the major railroads. The Railroads and Customs brokers aren’t trained - AT ALL - to look for any type of terrorist profile. This is a customer service industry, pure and simple. The railroad employees taking these orders for accounts make minimum wage, and they are simply “customer service reps.” The Customs brokers aren’t much different. They are required to check almost nothing, have no training in this arena, and have no requirements to fully identify any of their customers.
These rail customer accounts may be set up via the Internet, or over the phone. At no point does anyone in the railroad industry or Customs brokers ever require visual documentation to fully identify who the account holder actually is.
Once a person has set up an account the movement of these cars can be directed REMOTELY via the Internet or telephone. Then they can be moved anywhere in the country with extreme ease. Then the terrorist can remotely move them and if need be, abruptly change the routing of these cars via a simple phone call to their customer service rep or via the Internet, from anywhere in the world. This is truly a recipe for disaster. Terrorists can simply remotely route a hundred of these simultaneously to within a mile or two of a hundred of our national landmarks. They don’t even need a suicide bomber to activate them remotely. Once this is done, the perpetrators will be extremely difficult to trace.
When my brave associates and I tried desperately to bring attention to this, our careers were destroyed. We were virtually shoved out on a limb, and Customs managers laughed in our faces as the limb was cut off. These tanker cars are a Clear and present danger to our national security, as well as what happened to the
Whistleblowers who tried to stop it. The American public must demand accountability, and demand that honest cops trying to do their jobs should not be treated in this fashion.
Darlene Fitzgerald
Former Special Agent
Author: “U.S. Customs, Badge of Dishonor”
(606) 376-9095
Wow, this is either an extremely brave police officer or a pissed off / fed up cop. In reveiwing the statement posted, I would like to direct your attention to the fourth sentence. What exactly is a group of "four friends"? Why is there a gap between friends and "he started to yell at them," COMMA. I personaly am going to need more information regarding the comma. I am extremely liberal, and very anti-establishment, however, you have not sold me that this is excessive force. Excessive force is in the details, so what are the rest of the details? Leaving them out only adds fuel to the fire. Instead of directing readers to call the police and ask why the officer has not been diciplined, perhaps readers should ask the police department to release other pertinent information. There is so much more to this story. I want to hear the shooters side of the incident.
Sincerely;
Extremely Liberal- But Not Stupid
Sincerely;
Extremely Liberal- But Not Stupid
Sam wrote:
"Get a clue it went to the DA's office because the DA was given money for his reelection campaign by the Arab Association. It is all about the money. Orange County is known to be a racist police department."
Do you have any proof of this Sam or are they simply empty acusations for the Bates' defense?
Sam also wrote: "If they had any evidence Bates would be in jail.."
That's also wrong my friend. If Bates didnt have a badge he'd be in jail. There is evidence. If there wasnt, there would be no Grand Jury investigation.
By the way, anyone heard anything about the Grand Jury's findings or when they will be published? When will the trial will begin?
God Bless Bassim. Happy Easter.
"Get a clue it went to the DA's office because the DA was given money for his reelection campaign by the Arab Association. It is all about the money. Orange County is known to be a racist police department."
Do you have any proof of this Sam or are they simply empty acusations for the Bates' defense?
Sam also wrote: "If they had any evidence Bates would be in jail.."
That's also wrong my friend. If Bates didnt have a badge he'd be in jail. There is evidence. If there wasnt, there would be no Grand Jury investigation.
By the way, anyone heard anything about the Grand Jury's findings or when they will be published? When will the trial will begin?
God Bless Bassim. Happy Easter.
You wrote:
" I am extremely liberal, and very anti-establishment, however, you have not sold me that this is excessive force."
Once again I would like to point out that Bates' reason for going outside that night was a NOISE DISTURBANCE. An officer responding to a NOISE DISTURBANCE with his gun drawn is EXCESSIVE FORCE. None of the young men were armed. Bates was the agressor. Bates approached the scene with his gun drawn. Bates pointed his gun at Bassim's head and Douglas Bates pulled the trigger.
" I am extremely liberal, and very anti-establishment, however, you have not sold me that this is excessive force."
Once again I would like to point out that Bates' reason for going outside that night was a NOISE DISTURBANCE. An officer responding to a NOISE DISTURBANCE with his gun drawn is EXCESSIVE FORCE. None of the young men were armed. Bates was the agressor. Bates approached the scene with his gun drawn. Bates pointed his gun at Bassim's head and Douglas Bates pulled the trigger.
Lisa wrote:
" His gun was not drawn. He did not have powder burns on his hand. The boys pullled the trigger not Bates."
What? Where are you getting this??? Please state your source. Bates approached the scene with his gun drawn and DOUGLAS BATES pointed HIS gun at Bassim Chmait's head. DOUGLAS BATES pulled the trigger. That is according to the sworn testimony given by ALL witnesses at the scene. The fact that he did not have powder burns on his hands is irrelevant. A trained officer knows how to handle a gun. Further, where did you come up with 'the boys pulled the trigger' ??? That is a rediculous lie. Why does the Bates defense continue to blame Bassim's friends for the murder?? Bates is the only shooter/killer, this is not an opinion, it is a fact.
ONCE AGAIN, I'd like to point out....
LINDA = LISA = SAM = FRIEND = Shay? = Bates?
All of these posts were made by the same person or group of people at the same time and on the same computer. Look at the time of the posts & IP address. Start being honest...
" His gun was not drawn. He did not have powder burns on his hand. The boys pullled the trigger not Bates."
What? Where are you getting this??? Please state your source. Bates approached the scene with his gun drawn and DOUGLAS BATES pointed HIS gun at Bassim Chmait's head. DOUGLAS BATES pulled the trigger. That is according to the sworn testimony given by ALL witnesses at the scene. The fact that he did not have powder burns on his hands is irrelevant. A trained officer knows how to handle a gun. Further, where did you come up with 'the boys pulled the trigger' ??? That is a rediculous lie. Why does the Bates defense continue to blame Bassim's friends for the murder?? Bates is the only shooter/killer, this is not an opinion, it is a fact.
ONCE AGAIN, I'd like to point out....
LINDA = LISA = SAM = FRIEND = Shay? = Bates?
All of these posts were made by the same person or group of people at the same time and on the same computer. Look at the time of the posts & IP address. Start being honest...
Linda/Douglas? wrote:
" By the way how did they get into a locked gated community? What really happened is this they were yelling and swearing and oh yeah beating up one of the neighbors. Mr Bates ran out of his house to help the person being beaten up."
All of the boys were invited to a party that was being held near Mr. Bates' residence. The boys were invited into the locked gated community by one of Mr. Bates' neighbors.
Where did you come up with this version of the story? Bates did not say anything about breaking up a fight on the night of the incident. Bates told police that he had gone outside to investigate a noise disturbance. I'm sure if there was actually a fight that would have been the first thing the police told the media in hopes of protecting a fellow officer. (That there had been a fight and the officer was trying to break it up.) Unfortunately the newspaper articles, police reports, and sworn testimony all go against your claim that the boys were beating up one of the neighbors.
"By the way Mr. Bates was the first 911 call."
Thats good.Unfortunately Mr. Bates should have made that 911 call before he shot Bassim in the head for being loud.
"Oh yeah what about the five police cars that were sent to the hospital becasue the young boys were screaming and acting crazy."
These boys had just witnesses their friend being shot in the head at point blank range. I'd say that most intelligent people would agree that 'screaming and acting crazy' is an appropriate response to such a tragedy. It was at the hospital where the boys were told that their friend was dead.
" Or what about the fact that they refused to give the police blood test because they said we had been partying with drugs. Excuse me if I think drugs might affect your actions."
None of the boys were armed. For the record, the "drug" in question is marijuana. I'd agree that pot effects your actions; it makes you lazy, peaceful and passive.
Bates was armed with a hand gun. Bates refused to take a blood alcohol exam on the night of the shooting because he had been drinking and knew this would show. Everyone knows that alcohol only stays in your system for 24 hours and has been proven to be a drug that causes violence and rage.
" Oh yeah why didn't you write about how they beat Mr. Bates up?"
That's funny. Bates didnt mention that he'd been 'beat up' to the police. The ONLY thing I read anywhere is that Bates had a cut lip when the officers arrived on the scene. There is no evidence to suggest that this was caused by any of the boys. I find it very interesting how the Bates defense has changed their story 3 or 4 times now of what actually happened that night. Originally, on the night of the shooting, Bates told the police that there was a struggle and that his gun 'went off accidentally.' Several witnesses have said under oath that none of the boys ever touched Douglas Bates. Futher, is there any medical report, photographs, or evidence at all that substantiate this claim?
There is however evidence that shows Bates was the agressor. All witnesses have testified that Bates approached the boys with his gun drawn and yelled obsenities at them when they asked that he lower the gun. Bates pistol whipped Bassim's friend in the head before shooting Bassim. The boy who was pistol whipped ended up in the emergency room later that night. There were photographs taken and a report was written that can verify this account.
"If he went out and shot someone dead than why aren't they all dead?"
The entire premise of this arguement is flawwed. An officer involved in an accidental shooting is not going to kill more people. Bates probably did not intend on killing Bassim or anyone that night. Bates wanted to use his power and authority to resolve the situation however drawing his gun on a group of unarmed boys is excessive force. Bates made some very poor choices to try and resolve a NOISE DISTURBANCE WITH HIS GUN the results of which were an unarmed boy shot in the head at point blank range.
"I think that why Mr. Bates is getting such a hard time is that he is an african american man.... In this day and age blacks are still fighting the same ingrained prejudiced that they have been fighting for centuries"
These comments are complete and utter bullshit intended to put a racial spin on this incident and generate sympathy for the Bates defense from the African American community.
The truth is that Bates has been given several rights that we normal citizens are not given:
1. Bates shot an unarmed boy in the head at point blank range and was NEVER arrested.
2. Because Bates is a federal officer the D.A. sent a representative to the scene on the night of the shooting!
3. The police arriving at the scene did not give Bates a blood alcohol test on the night of the shooting.
4. Homeland Security, Customs, and police have all taken it upon themselves to defend Bates' (a fellow officer) by not pressing for an arrest.
5. Bates has kept his job pending the outcome of the investigation. (most people would have been suspended while the investigation was underway)
" By the way how did they get into a locked gated community? What really happened is this they were yelling and swearing and oh yeah beating up one of the neighbors. Mr Bates ran out of his house to help the person being beaten up."
All of the boys were invited to a party that was being held near Mr. Bates' residence. The boys were invited into the locked gated community by one of Mr. Bates' neighbors.
Where did you come up with this version of the story? Bates did not say anything about breaking up a fight on the night of the incident. Bates told police that he had gone outside to investigate a noise disturbance. I'm sure if there was actually a fight that would have been the first thing the police told the media in hopes of protecting a fellow officer. (That there had been a fight and the officer was trying to break it up.) Unfortunately the newspaper articles, police reports, and sworn testimony all go against your claim that the boys were beating up one of the neighbors.
"By the way Mr. Bates was the first 911 call."
Thats good.Unfortunately Mr. Bates should have made that 911 call before he shot Bassim in the head for being loud.
"Oh yeah what about the five police cars that were sent to the hospital becasue the young boys were screaming and acting crazy."
These boys had just witnesses their friend being shot in the head at point blank range. I'd say that most intelligent people would agree that 'screaming and acting crazy' is an appropriate response to such a tragedy. It was at the hospital where the boys were told that their friend was dead.
" Or what about the fact that they refused to give the police blood test because they said we had been partying with drugs. Excuse me if I think drugs might affect your actions."
None of the boys were armed. For the record, the "drug" in question is marijuana. I'd agree that pot effects your actions; it makes you lazy, peaceful and passive.
Bates was armed with a hand gun. Bates refused to take a blood alcohol exam on the night of the shooting because he had been drinking and knew this would show. Everyone knows that alcohol only stays in your system for 24 hours and has been proven to be a drug that causes violence and rage.
" Oh yeah why didn't you write about how they beat Mr. Bates up?"
That's funny. Bates didnt mention that he'd been 'beat up' to the police. The ONLY thing I read anywhere is that Bates had a cut lip when the officers arrived on the scene. There is no evidence to suggest that this was caused by any of the boys. I find it very interesting how the Bates defense has changed their story 3 or 4 times now of what actually happened that night. Originally, on the night of the shooting, Bates told the police that there was a struggle and that his gun 'went off accidentally.' Several witnesses have said under oath that none of the boys ever touched Douglas Bates. Futher, is there any medical report, photographs, or evidence at all that substantiate this claim?
There is however evidence that shows Bates was the agressor. All witnesses have testified that Bates approached the boys with his gun drawn and yelled obsenities at them when they asked that he lower the gun. Bates pistol whipped Bassim's friend in the head before shooting Bassim. The boy who was pistol whipped ended up in the emergency room later that night. There were photographs taken and a report was written that can verify this account.
"If he went out and shot someone dead than why aren't they all dead?"
The entire premise of this arguement is flawwed. An officer involved in an accidental shooting is not going to kill more people. Bates probably did not intend on killing Bassim or anyone that night. Bates wanted to use his power and authority to resolve the situation however drawing his gun on a group of unarmed boys is excessive force. Bates made some very poor choices to try and resolve a NOISE DISTURBANCE WITH HIS GUN the results of which were an unarmed boy shot in the head at point blank range.
"I think that why Mr. Bates is getting such a hard time is that he is an african american man.... In this day and age blacks are still fighting the same ingrained prejudiced that they have been fighting for centuries"
These comments are complete and utter bullshit intended to put a racial spin on this incident and generate sympathy for the Bates defense from the African American community.
The truth is that Bates has been given several rights that we normal citizens are not given:
1. Bates shot an unarmed boy in the head at point blank range and was NEVER arrested.
2. Because Bates is a federal officer the D.A. sent a representative to the scene on the night of the shooting!
3. The police arriving at the scene did not give Bates a blood alcohol test on the night of the shooting.
4. Homeland Security, Customs, and police have all taken it upon themselves to defend Bates' (a fellow officer) by not pressing for an arrest.
5. Bates has kept his job pending the outcome of the investigation. (most people would have been suspended while the investigation was underway)
The Grand Jury heard testimony for the past three Fridays beginning March 11. They also heard testimony this past Tuesday in hopes of finalizing a descion. If an indictment is issued a complete report detailing their findings will be released to the public on the Orange County Grand Jury's website. If an indictment is not issued there will not be an official report released to the public.
Firstly, I know some people in Law Enforcement, frankly here are some pointers for everyone and I beleive these are true facts.
Firstly, this Shai guy/gal, whoever you are, I am trying to understand why you support this Bates guy? Not to say you should not but I'm just curious because you really have not provided anyone with any hard evidence.
Everyone else is providing hard evidence but not exactly the same kind of evidence, its all jumbled up. The is no clear picture (motive).
There are a couple of things wrong with the story:
1) If the officer has a pass to carry his gun with him wherever he goes he can have it, however there is a clause on that gun carry policy which states that off duty officers can only use the weapon when in immenent danger i.e his life is being threatened, meaning someone is about to kill him or someone has threatened him such as cut him with a knife or is attacking him and he thinks his life is in danger. Basically if he is able to escape without using his gun, HE SHOULD. Clearly he was not being attacked as he was merely injured. Plus ALL CBP Officers must call for help before they take any action away from their port, I know this because I know people in Federal Law Enforcement, CBP. What he did was wrong and he was not in danger so therefore he must be sanctioned for using his gun. Shai, I am sorry but those are the facts.
2) I do not know about the kids and what they did, if they provoked him then Bates should have called the police and left it at that. If the kids attacked him, they should not have.
This case is basically a case where Bates was protected, not by GOD but by other sources in the Federal Government, which frankly is a shame. If this were New York, he would have been suspended or something would have been done. I pray for you guys in California.
Any comments???
Firstly, this Shai guy/gal, whoever you are, I am trying to understand why you support this Bates guy? Not to say you should not but I'm just curious because you really have not provided anyone with any hard evidence.
Everyone else is providing hard evidence but not exactly the same kind of evidence, its all jumbled up. The is no clear picture (motive).
There are a couple of things wrong with the story:
1) If the officer has a pass to carry his gun with him wherever he goes he can have it, however there is a clause on that gun carry policy which states that off duty officers can only use the weapon when in immenent danger i.e his life is being threatened, meaning someone is about to kill him or someone has threatened him such as cut him with a knife or is attacking him and he thinks his life is in danger. Basically if he is able to escape without using his gun, HE SHOULD. Clearly he was not being attacked as he was merely injured. Plus ALL CBP Officers must call for help before they take any action away from their port, I know this because I know people in Federal Law Enforcement, CBP. What he did was wrong and he was not in danger so therefore he must be sanctioned for using his gun. Shai, I am sorry but those are the facts.
2) I do not know about the kids and what they did, if they provoked him then Bates should have called the police and left it at that. If the kids attacked him, they should not have.
This case is basically a case where Bates was protected, not by GOD but by other sources in the Federal Government, which frankly is a shame. If this were New York, he would have been suspended or something would have been done. I pray for you guys in California.
Any comments???
The case of Bassim Chmait is one of countless examples of police corruption. The big problem is that there is no public check on the power of the police. There ought to be a public commission elected by the people and fully independent of the police that can conduct investigations of all actions of the police. Until then, the public will suffer from brutal, dishonest police.
whats the update to this case? anyone know?
"doesn't matter Law Enforcement officers are on duty 24 hours a day, if they witness a crime greater than an infraction, they are generally required to handle it in some way by law and by their agency's policy, regardless if working or not. The crime here was the verbal disturbance he heard outside his apartment"
I happen to know a few things about the agency Mr. Bates works for and I would like to comment on a few things. First of all I do not at all doubt that you may be or may have been an officer however, every agency has guidelines and policies which their officers must comply with. You did state that LEO's are "generally required" to handle a crime if witnessed yet his agency's policy does not allow their officers to "interfere" in situations that should be handled by local police ,UNLESS the officer himself is in grave danger (without having put himself there in the first place) OR another officer requests help because their live is in danger. The policy sucks but it is what it is. (for his agency, anyway..) Therefore Bates should not have interfered with a mere "noise" complaint , he should have contacted the local police.
Secondly, you commented on the fact that someone criticized Bates for responding to the situation with his firearm in hand. Again, the policy does not permit their officer to draw his weapon unless his life is in grave danger (AGAIN only if the officer DID NOT put himself in the situation to begin with) or to assist another officer at that officers request. I am not on anyone's side here because I also do not doubt the fact that the kids may have acted in a manner that may have made the officer feel endangered, hence the officer felt a need to defend himself, as an officer is trained to do. Difficult to take sides in this case without knowing all of the facts, policies, laws and behaviors of all persons involved..
I happen to know a few things about the agency Mr. Bates works for and I would like to comment on a few things. First of all I do not at all doubt that you may be or may have been an officer however, every agency has guidelines and policies which their officers must comply with. You did state that LEO's are "generally required" to handle a crime if witnessed yet his agency's policy does not allow their officers to "interfere" in situations that should be handled by local police ,UNLESS the officer himself is in grave danger (without having put himself there in the first place) OR another officer requests help because their live is in danger. The policy sucks but it is what it is. (for his agency, anyway..) Therefore Bates should not have interfered with a mere "noise" complaint , he should have contacted the local police.
Secondly, you commented on the fact that someone criticized Bates for responding to the situation with his firearm in hand. Again, the policy does not permit their officer to draw his weapon unless his life is in grave danger (AGAIN only if the officer DID NOT put himself in the situation to begin with) or to assist another officer at that officers request. I am not on anyone's side here because I also do not doubt the fact that the kids may have acted in a manner that may have made the officer feel endangered, hence the officer felt a need to defend himself, as an officer is trained to do. Difficult to take sides in this case without knowing all of the facts, policies, laws and behaviors of all persons involved..
How many of you people are LEO's? You people don't seem to know anything about what we are allowed to do by law. Douglas Bates is slightly angry man in general but honorable served in the military and then joined INS/CBP only after 9/11 happened to help America. I think you should wait till all of the facts are out before you talk about police corruption. Where is the corruption? Do you think if a LAPD cop could bust a FED he wouldn't? Of course he would, it would make a name for himself. You all seem like you are ready to hang a guy for shooting someone who's symbol is a mic and a gun, wake up!
Doug Bates is black. He is really black. Have any of you seen him? Why are you people commenting when you don't even know he is BLACK!!!?
The Orange County Grand Jury has indicted Bates. He is currently out on $100,000 bail on charges of manslaughter. Hopefully justice will be served.
‘Neighbor-Involved Shooting’
The DA files charges against a customs officer who killed a Mission Viejo college student. The defense says it’s all politics
by NICK SCHOU
On July 6, after four months of deliberation, the Orange County grand jury unsealed its first indictment ever against a law enforcement officer.
The jury indicted Douglas Bates, a 43-year-old customs inspector for the federal Homeland Security Department, who fatally shot Bassim Chmait, a 20-year-old Arab-American college student, in February.
District Attorney Tony Rackauckas has had ample opportunity to pursue officer-involved shootings during his seven years in office; as the Weekly reported last year, of the more than 50 officer-involved shootings that occurred in the past five years, none resulted in a prosecution (see “The Year of the Gun,” Jan. 9, 2004).
The fact that Rackauckas has refused until now to press charges against police officers involved in questionable shootings has become an issue in the Chmait case. Bates’ defense attorney has filed a motion to quash the indictment, claiming the DA sought it simply to gain political support among Orange County’s Arab Americans.
The shooting took place early on Feb. 5 outside Bates’ Mission Viejo apartment. Chmait and his friends were on their way to a nearby party when Bates, off-duty and wearing a bathrobe, rushed out of his apartment and, holding a pistol, confronted them. Witnesses say Bates was upset about noise from the party, approached the three young men with his pistol and law-enforcement badge, and shouted, “You want to fuck with a cop?”
Instead of backing away, the group walked toward Bates. That was a big mistake: during the altercation that ensued, Bates allegedly pistol-whipped one of Chmait’s friends. What happened then is unclear—except that all sides agree Bates shot Chmait in the head at point-blank range.
A team of Orange County sheriff’s detectives dispatched to the scene made no arrests, citing lack of evidence.
The Weekly first reported that Rackauckas had forwarded the case to the grand jury after meeting with the victim’s family and Tareef Nashashibi, a Chmait family friend and chairman of the Arab American committee of the Orange County Republican Party (see “Indictment Imminent?” March 11).
“These charges are trumped up,” said Leo Terrell, Bates’ lawyer. “Rackauckas punted this case to the grand jury because an Arab American group sat down with the DA and pressured him. Rackauckas is a politician and is trying to please a potential contribution base. That is not going to work here.”
Terrell claimed Bates acted in self-defense after being attacked by Chmait and his friends, who he says badly beat his client after provoking him with racial slurs. “This case is about an African-American Homeland Security officer who comes out of his house, and a group of Arab-American youths used racial epithets and assaulted him,” he said.
“Dirty racial names were being used against my client. That’s the dirty secret being kept out of the press,” said Terrell, a prominent Beverly Hills lawyer who usually sues cops in shooting cases.
Terrell asserted that Bates didn’t go out of his house with a gun looking for a fight. “He came out because he heard noise and a cry for help,” Terrell said. “He thought someone was being assaulted. My client was interviewed by the OC Sheriff’s Department and released. They said there was no evidence to arrest him or convict him. If this man was suspected of any crime, would he have been released?”
Terrell added that he has filed a discovery motion for the Sheriff’s Department’s report of the shooting, which he said includes photographs proving Chmait and his friends assaulted Bates. “My client’s face was badly bruised; his lip was as big as a house,” he said. “His face was bloody. He was in pretty bad shape for a guy with a gun in his hand.”
Susan Schroeder, a DA spokesperson, refused to discuss details of the case, citing the pending prosecution. But she countered Terrell’s claim that Rackauckas has never filed charges in any officer-involved shooting cases. “We file criminal complaints against law enforcement all the time,” she said. Pressed for examples, Schroeder said such charges ranged from improper use of pepper spray to theft and drunk driving.
But not shooting. Indeed, David Brent, head of the DA’s homicide unit and the prosecutor handling the Chmait case, said he couldn’t recall a single officer-involved shooting case that has resulted in charges being filed by his office.
“I can think of one or two cases seven or eight years ago, and there were no indictments on those, but none in recent years,” Brent said.
But that’s irrelevant, he continued. “Some people are calling this an officer-involved shooting. I don’t view this as an officer-involved shooting. This was a neighbor-involved shooting. It had nothing to do with Mr. Bates’ status as a customs officer or his job.”
Brent claimed there is nothing unusual in handing such a case to the grand jury.
“To me, it’s just a case where there are a lot of heightened emotions and different feelings,” he said. “We wanted the grand jury to say whether Mr. Bates should be held responsible or not. Nineteen grand jurors said he should be held responsible—not for murder, but manslaughter. And that’s the case I will present to a jury. I fully expect we will get a conviction.”
The DA files charges against a customs officer who killed a Mission Viejo college student. The defense says it’s all politics
by NICK SCHOU
On July 6, after four months of deliberation, the Orange County grand jury unsealed its first indictment ever against a law enforcement officer.
The jury indicted Douglas Bates, a 43-year-old customs inspector for the federal Homeland Security Department, who fatally shot Bassim Chmait, a 20-year-old Arab-American college student, in February.
District Attorney Tony Rackauckas has had ample opportunity to pursue officer-involved shootings during his seven years in office; as the Weekly reported last year, of the more than 50 officer-involved shootings that occurred in the past five years, none resulted in a prosecution (see “The Year of the Gun,” Jan. 9, 2004).
The fact that Rackauckas has refused until now to press charges against police officers involved in questionable shootings has become an issue in the Chmait case. Bates’ defense attorney has filed a motion to quash the indictment, claiming the DA sought it simply to gain political support among Orange County’s Arab Americans.
The shooting took place early on Feb. 5 outside Bates’ Mission Viejo apartment. Chmait and his friends were on their way to a nearby party when Bates, off-duty and wearing a bathrobe, rushed out of his apartment and, holding a pistol, confronted them. Witnesses say Bates was upset about noise from the party, approached the three young men with his pistol and law-enforcement badge, and shouted, “You want to fuck with a cop?”
Instead of backing away, the group walked toward Bates. That was a big mistake: during the altercation that ensued, Bates allegedly pistol-whipped one of Chmait’s friends. What happened then is unclear—except that all sides agree Bates shot Chmait in the head at point-blank range.
A team of Orange County sheriff’s detectives dispatched to the scene made no arrests, citing lack of evidence.
The Weekly first reported that Rackauckas had forwarded the case to the grand jury after meeting with the victim’s family and Tareef Nashashibi, a Chmait family friend and chairman of the Arab American committee of the Orange County Republican Party (see “Indictment Imminent?” March 11).
“These charges are trumped up,” said Leo Terrell, Bates’ lawyer. “Rackauckas punted this case to the grand jury because an Arab American group sat down with the DA and pressured him. Rackauckas is a politician and is trying to please a potential contribution base. That is not going to work here.”
Terrell claimed Bates acted in self-defense after being attacked by Chmait and his friends, who he says badly beat his client after provoking him with racial slurs. “This case is about an African-American Homeland Security officer who comes out of his house, and a group of Arab-American youths used racial epithets and assaulted him,” he said.
“Dirty racial names were being used against my client. That’s the dirty secret being kept out of the press,” said Terrell, a prominent Beverly Hills lawyer who usually sues cops in shooting cases.
Terrell asserted that Bates didn’t go out of his house with a gun looking for a fight. “He came out because he heard noise and a cry for help,” Terrell said. “He thought someone was being assaulted. My client was interviewed by the OC Sheriff’s Department and released. They said there was no evidence to arrest him or convict him. If this man was suspected of any crime, would he have been released?”
Terrell added that he has filed a discovery motion for the Sheriff’s Department’s report of the shooting, which he said includes photographs proving Chmait and his friends assaulted Bates. “My client’s face was badly bruised; his lip was as big as a house,” he said. “His face was bloody. He was in pretty bad shape for a guy with a gun in his hand.”
Susan Schroeder, a DA spokesperson, refused to discuss details of the case, citing the pending prosecution. But she countered Terrell’s claim that Rackauckas has never filed charges in any officer-involved shooting cases. “We file criminal complaints against law enforcement all the time,” she said. Pressed for examples, Schroeder said such charges ranged from improper use of pepper spray to theft and drunk driving.
But not shooting. Indeed, David Brent, head of the DA’s homicide unit and the prosecutor handling the Chmait case, said he couldn’t recall a single officer-involved shooting case that has resulted in charges being filed by his office.
“I can think of one or two cases seven or eight years ago, and there were no indictments on those, but none in recent years,” Brent said.
But that’s irrelevant, he continued. “Some people are calling this an officer-involved shooting. I don’t view this as an officer-involved shooting. This was a neighbor-involved shooting. It had nothing to do with Mr. Bates’ status as a customs officer or his job.”
Brent claimed there is nothing unusual in handing such a case to the grand jury.
“To me, it’s just a case where there are a lot of heightened emotions and different feelings,” he said. “We wanted the grand jury to say whether Mr. Bates should be held responsible or not. Nineteen grand jurors said he should be held responsible—not for murder, but manslaughter. And that’s the case I will present to a jury. I fully expect we will get a conviction.”
Federal officer indicted in death
The Customs and Border Patrol employee is charged with voluntary manslaughter for the off-duty shooting of a Mission Viejo man in February.
By RACHANEE SRISAVASDI
The Orange County Register
A U.S. Customs and Border Patrol officer has been indicted for voluntary manslaughter in the off-duty shooting of a Mission Viejo man in February.
Douglas Bates faces 11 years in prison if convicted in the Feb. 5 death of Bassim Chmait, 20. The shooting sparked a series of vigils and protests from relatives and friends of Chmait, all who lobbied for Bates to be prosecuted.
Bates pleaded not guilty today, Assistant District Attorney Dave Brent said. Bates was taken into custody, and bail was set at $100,000. His lawyer could not be immediately reached for comment.
The Customs and Border Patrol employee is charged with voluntary manslaughter for the off-duty shooting of a Mission Viejo man in February.
By RACHANEE SRISAVASDI
The Orange County Register
A U.S. Customs and Border Patrol officer has been indicted for voluntary manslaughter in the off-duty shooting of a Mission Viejo man in February.
Douglas Bates faces 11 years in prison if convicted in the Feb. 5 death of Bassim Chmait, 20. The shooting sparked a series of vigils and protests from relatives and friends of Chmait, all who lobbied for Bates to be prosecuted.
Bates pleaded not guilty today, Assistant District Attorney Dave Brent said. Bates was taken into custody, and bail was set at $100,000. His lawyer could not be immediately reached for comment.
Federal Officer Is Charged in Fatal Shooting
Lawyer for a Homeland Security official says his client's gun accidentally discharged during a fight outside his Mission Viejo home.
By H.G. Reza
Times Staff Writer
July 7, 2005
A Department of Homeland Security officer has been charged with voluntary manslaughter in the February off-duty shooting of a Lebanese American man at a Mission Viejo apartment complex that led to protests by the victim's family and friends.
The charge against Douglas William Bates, 43, was announced Wednesday when an indictment issued by the Orange County Grand Jury was unsealed. Bates surrendered to authorities and was jailed, with bail set at $100,000.
Authorities allege Bates shot Bassim Chmait, 20, of Laguna Hills in the head Feb. 5 during a fight with several men when they arrived at a party at the Madrid Apartments, where Bates lives. Initially, Orange County sheriff's investigators said Bates' handgun discharged accidentally and no charges were filed.
However, Dist. Atty. Tony Rackauckas turned the case over to the grand jury in March, citing contradictory accounts of the shooting and "credibility questions" regarding some witnesses.
Leo Terrell, Bates' attorney, blamed the shooting on Chmait and three companions, who he said attacked his client when he went outside at 1:30 a.m. with his duty weapon after hearing a cry for help. He said Chmait and the others also used racial slurs to taunt Bates, a U.S. Customs and Border Protection officer who is African American. The agency is part of the Department of Homeland Security.
"He went outside and saw four intoxicated young men," Terrell said. "There were racial epithets thrown at him, and he was physically attacked. The gun discharged while he was being pounced on."
Terrell said photographs of Bates' battered face taken by sheriff's investigators "clearly show that he too was a victim."
"You know who killed that young boy? It was [Chmait's] friends," Terrell said. "They provoked the incident."
Hikmat Chmait of Irvine blamed Bates for his nephew's death and said he and his family had hoped Bates would be charged with murder. If convicted of voluntary manslaughter, Bates could face up to 11 years in prison.
"We feel that justice has prevailed, but maybe not all the way," he said. "We want to thank the district attorney's office and the Sheriff's Department for their investigation and seeing this case through."
After Chmait's death, family and friends held vigils outside the Madrid Apartments in the 28000 block of Los Alisos Boulevard where the aspiring rap singer was killed. They also created a website called JusticeForBassim.com, where they have posted updates on the case and called for Bates' arrest.
Bates was notified by prosecutors of the indictment and was given a chance to turn himself in, said Deputy Dist. Atty. David Brent.
Bates, who was assigned to Los Angeles International Airport, has been on administrative leave since the shooting, said Mike Fleming, a customs spokesman.
Terrell criticized Rackauckas for "punting to the grand jury" rather than making a decision on whether to file charges. In most cases, prosecutors review investigators' reports and decide whether the evidence warrants charges against a suspect.
"The prosecution knows these are trumped-up charges. They didn't have enough evidence to file against my client, so they sent it to the grand jury."
But Brent, who will be prosecuting the case, said there is sufficient evidence to obtain a conviction, although he declined to elaborate.
"I believe that, and the grand jury felt that way, too," he said.
"The grand jury went through a long process of examining the evidence. This [voluntary manslaughter charge] is what the jurors thought was appropriate, and we're moving forward."
Lawyer for a Homeland Security official says his client's gun accidentally discharged during a fight outside his Mission Viejo home.
By H.G. Reza
Times Staff Writer
July 7, 2005
A Department of Homeland Security officer has been charged with voluntary manslaughter in the February off-duty shooting of a Lebanese American man at a Mission Viejo apartment complex that led to protests by the victim's family and friends.
The charge against Douglas William Bates, 43, was announced Wednesday when an indictment issued by the Orange County Grand Jury was unsealed. Bates surrendered to authorities and was jailed, with bail set at $100,000.
Authorities allege Bates shot Bassim Chmait, 20, of Laguna Hills in the head Feb. 5 during a fight with several men when they arrived at a party at the Madrid Apartments, where Bates lives. Initially, Orange County sheriff's investigators said Bates' handgun discharged accidentally and no charges were filed.
However, Dist. Atty. Tony Rackauckas turned the case over to the grand jury in March, citing contradictory accounts of the shooting and "credibility questions" regarding some witnesses.
Leo Terrell, Bates' attorney, blamed the shooting on Chmait and three companions, who he said attacked his client when he went outside at 1:30 a.m. with his duty weapon after hearing a cry for help. He said Chmait and the others also used racial slurs to taunt Bates, a U.S. Customs and Border Protection officer who is African American. The agency is part of the Department of Homeland Security.
"He went outside and saw four intoxicated young men," Terrell said. "There were racial epithets thrown at him, and he was physically attacked. The gun discharged while he was being pounced on."
Terrell said photographs of Bates' battered face taken by sheriff's investigators "clearly show that he too was a victim."
"You know who killed that young boy? It was [Chmait's] friends," Terrell said. "They provoked the incident."
Hikmat Chmait of Irvine blamed Bates for his nephew's death and said he and his family had hoped Bates would be charged with murder. If convicted of voluntary manslaughter, Bates could face up to 11 years in prison.
"We feel that justice has prevailed, but maybe not all the way," he said. "We want to thank the district attorney's office and the Sheriff's Department for their investigation and seeing this case through."
After Chmait's death, family and friends held vigils outside the Madrid Apartments in the 28000 block of Los Alisos Boulevard where the aspiring rap singer was killed. They also created a website called JusticeForBassim.com, where they have posted updates on the case and called for Bates' arrest.
Bates was notified by prosecutors of the indictment and was given a chance to turn himself in, said Deputy Dist. Atty. David Brent.
Bates, who was assigned to Los Angeles International Airport, has been on administrative leave since the shooting, said Mike Fleming, a customs spokesman.
Terrell criticized Rackauckas for "punting to the grand jury" rather than making a decision on whether to file charges. In most cases, prosecutors review investigators' reports and decide whether the evidence warrants charges against a suspect.
"The prosecution knows these are trumped-up charges. They didn't have enough evidence to file against my client, so they sent it to the grand jury."
But Brent, who will be prosecuting the case, said there is sufficient evidence to obtain a conviction, although he declined to elaborate.
"I believe that, and the grand jury felt that way, too," he said.
"The grand jury went through a long process of examining the evidence. This [voluntary manslaughter charge] is what the jurors thought was appropriate, and we're moving forward."
Customs agent faces manslaughter charge in shooting
Officer pleads not guilty. Scuffle while off duty killed Mission Viejo man.
By RACHANEE SRISAVASDI
The Orange County Register
SANTA ANA – A U.S. Customs and Border Patrol officer has been indicted on suspicion of voluntary manslaughter in the February shooting of a Mission Viejo college student.
Douglas Bates, 42, faces up to 11 years in prison if convicted of the death of Bassim Chmait, 20, of Mission Viejo, said Assistant District Attorney Dave Brent.
Bates pleaded not guilty Wednesday.
The shooting occurred Feb 5. Bates, who was off duty at the time, said through his lawyer that his gun went off when he was beaten by Chmait and his friends while checking on a disturbance outside his Mission Viejo apartment.
Chmait's friends countered that Bates pistol- whipped one of them, then shot Chmait when he tried to intervene.
Bates was not arrested that night. Customs officials put Bates, who usually checks passports at Los Angeles International Airport, on administrative duties during the investigation.
Some of Chmait's family and friends feared that Bates would not be arrested or charged with a crime because Bates was an officer. They held public protests.
"Justice prevails," Chmait's uncle, Hikmat Chmait, said Wednesday. "We had doubts this would happen. We have great respect for the district attorney and the judicial system."
It is rare for a law-enforcement officer to face criminal charges for a shooting, said Brent Romney, director of the criminal-law practice center at Western State University College of Law in Fullerton.
The indictment was filed last week but unsealed Wednesday. The Orange County grand jury charged that Bates killed Chmait "upon a sudden quarrel and heat of passion."
The grand jury began hearing evidence in March. Testimony, which remains secret, was heard over two months.
Criminal indictments are infrequent. The grand jury spends most of its time investigating civil matters and only a quarter of its time dedicated to criminal cases, said court spokeswoman Carole Levitzky.
Last year, the grand jury returned 41 criminal indictments involving 54 defendants. By comparison, prosecutors filed approximately 70,000 cases last year, said Susan Kang Schroeder, spokeswoman for the Orange County DA's office.
On Wednesday morning, Bates was transferred from the courthouse to Orange County Jail. He quickly posted his $100,000 bail, said his attorney, Leo James Terrell.
Terrell said his client was beaten by Chmait's friends, and that the gun accidentally discharged.
Terrell said District Attorney Tony Rackauckas "punted" the case to the grand jury, though no crime occurred. He also accused Rackauckas of bending to pressure from the community, including Tareef Nashashibi, chairman of the Arab American Committee of the Orange County Republican Party, who is a family friend of the Chmaits. Nashashibi could not be reached for comment.
Brent, the prosecutor, characterized Terrell's accusations as speculative, adding that Terrell has not yet seen police reports to determine the validity of the charges.
He added that prosecutors often refer such emotionally charged cases to the grand jury so its 19-member panel can decide if a crime occurred.
"We want to see how the public, similar to that on a trial jury, responds to evidence, instead of relying on just one or two prosecutors' opinions," he said.
Bates is next scheduled to appear in court on July 15 for a pretrial hearing.
Officer pleads not guilty. Scuffle while off duty killed Mission Viejo man.
By RACHANEE SRISAVASDI
The Orange County Register
SANTA ANA – A U.S. Customs and Border Patrol officer has been indicted on suspicion of voluntary manslaughter in the February shooting of a Mission Viejo college student.
Douglas Bates, 42, faces up to 11 years in prison if convicted of the death of Bassim Chmait, 20, of Mission Viejo, said Assistant District Attorney Dave Brent.
Bates pleaded not guilty Wednesday.
The shooting occurred Feb 5. Bates, who was off duty at the time, said through his lawyer that his gun went off when he was beaten by Chmait and his friends while checking on a disturbance outside his Mission Viejo apartment.
Chmait's friends countered that Bates pistol- whipped one of them, then shot Chmait when he tried to intervene.
Bates was not arrested that night. Customs officials put Bates, who usually checks passports at Los Angeles International Airport, on administrative duties during the investigation.
Some of Chmait's family and friends feared that Bates would not be arrested or charged with a crime because Bates was an officer. They held public protests.
"Justice prevails," Chmait's uncle, Hikmat Chmait, said Wednesday. "We had doubts this would happen. We have great respect for the district attorney and the judicial system."
It is rare for a law-enforcement officer to face criminal charges for a shooting, said Brent Romney, director of the criminal-law practice center at Western State University College of Law in Fullerton.
The indictment was filed last week but unsealed Wednesday. The Orange County grand jury charged that Bates killed Chmait "upon a sudden quarrel and heat of passion."
The grand jury began hearing evidence in March. Testimony, which remains secret, was heard over two months.
Criminal indictments are infrequent. The grand jury spends most of its time investigating civil matters and only a quarter of its time dedicated to criminal cases, said court spokeswoman Carole Levitzky.
Last year, the grand jury returned 41 criminal indictments involving 54 defendants. By comparison, prosecutors filed approximately 70,000 cases last year, said Susan Kang Schroeder, spokeswoman for the Orange County DA's office.
On Wednesday morning, Bates was transferred from the courthouse to Orange County Jail. He quickly posted his $100,000 bail, said his attorney, Leo James Terrell.
Terrell said his client was beaten by Chmait's friends, and that the gun accidentally discharged.
Terrell said District Attorney Tony Rackauckas "punted" the case to the grand jury, though no crime occurred. He also accused Rackauckas of bending to pressure from the community, including Tareef Nashashibi, chairman of the Arab American Committee of the Orange County Republican Party, who is a family friend of the Chmaits. Nashashibi could not be reached for comment.
Brent, the prosecutor, characterized Terrell's accusations as speculative, adding that Terrell has not yet seen police reports to determine the validity of the charges.
He added that prosecutors often refer such emotionally charged cases to the grand jury so its 19-member panel can decide if a crime occurred.
"We want to see how the public, similar to that on a trial jury, responds to evidence, instead of relying on just one or two prosecutors' opinions," he said.
Bates is next scheduled to appear in court on July 15 for a pretrial hearing.
Dude = The Dude = 'Christian' Dude = Douglas Bates
You killed Bassim in the heat of passion. You were not authorized to have or use your firearm. You are not a cop. You are guilty of manslaughter and belong in prison.
I find it particularly interesting that only AFTER his indictment did ANYONE claim that racial slurs were used against Bates.
FYI all of the testimony heard before the Grand Jury is not becoming public record. Anyone interested in finding out what really happened that night can goto: http://occourts.org/
No more hiding. The truth is out.
You killed Bassim in the heat of passion. You were not authorized to have or use your firearm. You are not a cop. You are guilty of manslaughter and belong in prison.
I find it particularly interesting that only AFTER his indictment did ANYONE claim that racial slurs were used against Bates.
FYI all of the testimony heard before the Grand Jury is not becoming public record. Anyone interested in finding out what really happened that night can goto: http://occourts.org/
No more hiding. The truth is out.
My previous post was a typo. It meant to read "all of the testimony heard before the Grand Jury is NOW becoming public record."
I tried finding the info on that website occourts.org and theres nothing there. Can you make sure if that is the correct address? I even searched the database , can it be they already removed it?
Well they should have listen to the officer and went the outher direction. Even with a gun drawn most of the time a Security officer witch the guy who says he's a cop in the report is. Will not shoot you in the back. The friends should have just turned and keep walking. if he had shot one of them in the back then he would have gone to jail that night bacause that is against the law on a federal level as well to fire on someone that has there back to you or running away.
Isn't it interesting that Officer Bates is called "Nigger" and beaten up by four Arab men. Instead of them being charged with a "hate crime" he is charged. Nothing every changes in Orange County California. Officer Bates was guilty all right...guilty of being black behind the orange curtain. Somethings never change.
I was inspected at LAX recently by a portly fiftysomething African-American Customs and Border Protection Officer named Bates. He seemed short tempered. Glad he didn't shoot me.
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