Sunday Afternoon: Fighting the Occupation at Home in Hunter's Point

This is one of those things we rarely get to see, when someone can build something positive out of police brutality. It's good to see.

you people are brutal, not the cops. the city settled with the "grieving mother" to get her out of their hair, not because the cops were wrong. if the cops had acted wrong in this case, i am sure the payout would have been much more than $500 K. If it was my son, you couldn't pay me enough.

Kevin! You all are so amazing.
Thanks for doing this, you deserve to win!

Look man, everyone is brutal, okay?
This is no game. Everyone is hurting.

When someone does something non-violent
and somehow positive in this crappy world,
just try to appreciate it.

So cops aren't people? What are they, robots? And 'the people' are brutal? What are you talking about?

Sounds like you're living in an institution, safe from any real interaction with other people. If you were out doing anything besides taking your meds you might have some sense about who is an who isn't brutal.

Dear Fred,

Well, it sounds like YOU did not forget to take your anabolic steroids this morning!

Your last sentence unfortunately contains a syntax error that makes your important last comment an total enigma to your readers, but we caught your drift from the general context, Fred !

We actually support good cops for a job well done, whenever we get a scarce chance.

But I won't waste your much valuable time so that you can keep on rooting for Schwartzeneger !

Blessings, keep on the good work, mesha.

Hey brother man,

Thanks for sharing your opinion, we are down with freedom of speech !

A quick clarification:

I had the option to go to federal court in September, defended by Andy Schwartz, who has the highest rate of winning police misconduct cases in California, and he was all for it.

I chose to settle quickly ( I will not quote, for confidentiality sake, who among city officials and one of the "top Guns" of SFPD, numerous times profusely apologized for Idriss death, "It's was terribly wrong and we want to make sure it will never happen again in our City"...exact quote) to end the agonizing process for our family.

I could not agree more with you (wishing that you will never loose a child in such horrible circumstances), no amount of money, big or small, will bring you back your loved one or compensate your loss.

When it comes to the very modest amount I received from the City, again it was my choice to expedite de gruesome process of dollars & cents. I am not bargaining game, this is not a product sale or the fined tune dance of a merger negociation !

The settlement is a landmark and its proceeings are accepted as symbolic. To keep Idriss Stelley Foundation alive, there are grants and donations, have you heard of those, brother?

Nevertheless, keep on speaking your mind, you go, boy!

Blessings from the "grieving mother"

From the heart,

Thank you so very much for your participation and contributions to Idriss Stelley Birthday event yesterday 8-17 in Bayview Hunters Point!

To my little brother Ryan at Indymedia: You are really TIGHT, as we say in Bayview Hunters Point Village ! You did a fabulous job and my folks are very grateful.

For the many of you who could not attend but sent flowers, contributions, words of encouragement and continuing support, the Idriss B-day task force send their love ! It could certainly not have happened without you !

We could not dream of a better city wide launching of the Green House, part of SF Bayview Newspaper, your community space in Bayview Hunters Point. The event was publicized by Indymedia, Ch 29, French American Television, the SF Bayview and the corporate press. It was wonderful to see mayoral candidates, activists for Peace and Justice, our families whose loved ones have been brutalized or killed by law enforcement, the homeless, the Youth of Bayview Hunters Point Village, Charlie Walker, Islam Nation, the poor folks from the district cross all barriers and mingle, all geared for changes, peace and justice ! I know Idriss, and all the angels we have lost at the hands of law enforcement were right there with us, and I could feel my son embracing me. They are proud of us !

Every year on Aug 17th, Idriss Stelley Foundation will celebrate his birthday at the Green House, and honor, celebrate other families (hopefully no new ones...If so, Idriss Stelley Foundation, opening its office at the same location in September 2003, will offer them free, confidential services)

Other folks and organizations chose not to come, write or call (besides Islam Nation, where was the faith community?...). I will keep them in my prayers, and hope that in the future, they will not only stand and promise, but also deliver !

Keep the Green House in mind for your community events. For more information on Idriss Stelley Foundation, please call (415) 846-0749 or leave a message at (415) 468-2250, or write to iolmisha [at] cs.com.

Very sincerely,

* PEACE * COURAGE * SOLIDARITY *

mesha.

Why do lie to these people Mesha? You settled for pennies because you had no case. It was cheaper for the City to pay you than the lawyers. We all know that. Also nobody from SFPD ever said that to you, you are lying again. If you had a case why did the settlement say the police did nothing wrong? Please explain......

Rest you little soul...

You have already gave I believe, your generous contributions have tremendously enlighted the public for the past year!

Move on to less stressful issues, borther Q (as in KKKOP?)

Blessings, mesha

If there was no case, why did the City settle at all?

the city settled for $500 K because when they crunched the numbers it turned out to be less than what it would cost to have to actually go to court. and John Q. Public is right about one thing, no where in the settlement does it say the officers were in the wrong.

may god bless mr. stelley. i don't feel that anyone deserves to die a violent death. but his mother's point that a little knife couldn't go through a bullet proof vest is not a valid one. while the knife may not have gone through a vest, it could go through an eye or slashed someone's throat. if idriss did slash an officers shirt with that knife, i believe it would be reasonable to assume that he would have slashed his throat if he had the chance. the only thing that kept that officer alive was the fact that the knife luckily did not hit him in the throat, face etc. i feel the officers acted properly. but , being a man of god, i pray for idriss and know he is in god's hands.

And this differs from pleading nolo contendere, how?

if idriss stelley was a white guy, you folks wouldn't care. it's ok for cops to kill whiteys, but not minorities? i get it. and you fools think the cops are racist. look in the mirror.
props to the cops

new BMW - $40,000
getting hair done for TV appearances - $120
being a mother- $500,000
cashing in on my son's death - priceless

i don't think the city "plead" anything. they just figured in this time of deficit, why spend more than they have to.

And I could have turned own the City's offer.

OF course it does not say SFPD was in the wrong. The apology was presented in the presence of my lawyer and the mediation jude, ! DAY after the fajitagate inditment.

Of course, non concommital, close chambers, obviously meant to apease our family within a confidential process, which I am not violating since I will not point at the specific top official who was designated to convey the apology. The strategy timing was ripe, to avoid bunching up the inditment, the Bayview MLK investigation and the Stelley case

Did you forget how to read sistah? Do you remembe where the money goes? By the way we do our own hair in the family, maybe you should try it yourself sometimes

From a sista, it really hurts. You are in my prayers.

PolitiKKKs is not a tale of passion, so please let's stop assaulting the survivors.

You hit it right on the nose, deficit was the key word..

By the way (?),

I do not own a car, don't intend to. I am destitute as a result of my baby's death, lost my career after 28 years managing social services, suffer from Post Traumatic Stress and advanced diabetes, and it is very difficult or me to speak out because of severe panick attacks, only do so when .the stake is so much bigger than my fears and depression.

But I NEVER, never, from the start, if you all read your archives, intended to spend the settlement on myself, and public records of Idriss Stelley Foundation will be available.

My beloved Idriss is gone forever.

I have a recurrent nightmare for the past 2 years. I walk aimlessly through the city and suddenly Idriss appears at a corner, full of laughter "Mama, wazzup?", and as I am about to hug him, he vanishes...Daily, I can't get away from the thought that my frightened, confused son died alone, in an fury of screams, blasting pain, without an embrace or just good bye...That's forever. Forever the guilt that I was not at the Metreon to shield the bullets w/ my body, forever the blasting hate of the establishment and its contenders, the blind judgements toward individuals in mental distress.No garanties tat my beautiful E will greet me on the other sie when my time is up, the loss might be for eternity. and maybe I will never hear wazzup again...

That's what's going on, E, we go on giving support to the other families

And to "whitey", take a chance to look at "Stolen Lives", published by October 22 against Police Brutality, you will see the faces of all people killed at the hands of law enforcement, all races my brother, and their families receive our undivided support. Were the kids brutalized on Union St. past November of European descent? (which I am by the way). Did the community raise up o the tragedy? Who defends them: Schwartz, my attorney.

So find your Peace, my whitey Brotha, hopefully it won't happen to you, but if you get brutalized by SFPD, we will be there for you and your loved ones.

let's just clarify one thing...the idiots who got in that fight on Union Street were off duty. The SFPD can not be responsible for what its officers do while they aren't working. Should Mcdonalds be held responsible if one of their employess assaults someone outside of work? The off duty officers need to be responsible for themselves and hold themselves up to a higher standard. These guys obviously did not. But let's not judge the entire SFPD on 3 drunken idiots who acted foolishly. As far as the cover up allegations go, I think that the charges being dropped speaks for itself.

Stolen Lives is a joke. I read that book and Buford White is in there. Buford White robbed a bank, shot a guy in the head, shot 2 cops and then got shot by the cops. Sounds like he was productive member of society. Of course October22.org would have you believe that all this was "alleged" and that Buford white was just an innocent man walking down the street with a large hand gun. I'm a sorry that Mr. Stelley was killed, but when do we take responsiblilities for our own actions? the fact is that if he wasn't swinging a knife on a chain at the cops, he would still be alive. The cops did not give him that knife. A deadly weapon is a deadly weapon. A 2 inch knife can kill just like a 10 inch knife can kill. I agree with Mesha that it is time for healing, but it is also time for her to admit that her son played a major role in his own death. Bless.

> Should Mcdonalds be held responsible if one of their employess assaults someone outside of work?

If a McDonalds employee assaults me, I can defend myself. If an off duty cop assaults me and I defend myself, I'll go to prison for a long time, and that's if he doesn't kill me on the spot, an act for which he will never be prosecuted.

When we are not mentally ill.

being mentally ill doesn't give you the right to break the law.

We are living in a police state on a global level, multinational corporations hoard the wealth and employ fascist police in riot gear to oppress people..

We as people of all races/origins are able to live without the police, only the rich corporations need the police to protect their wealth that they have stolen from the People of Earth..

Self governance means living together with the community, everyone looks out for one another and helps one another without government interference..

when you have freedom, the violence will not longer be a problem, love yourself..

What, you've never heard of "not guilty by reason of insanity"?

How about "diminished capacity"?

The "Twinkie defense"?

Dear Mesha,

My heart is breaking everytime I see these -- excuse me -- PIGS posting on here, the kind of things they post about the murder of your son. There is only two possibilities:
1) They aren't really thinking or able to feel what it means to lose your child.
2) They are cops themselves or related to a cop and they cannot accept the brutal truth of the situation. Their viciousness is a defense mechanism because otherwise their worldview would shatter.

You are in my prayers at night, and by day I'll keep fighting for Idriss and for people in my life who have been hurt by out of control and unaccountable police.

You may have people who say shit like what is on this site, but the people who are with you have more heart and conviction than these other people ever could. In solidarity, Mesha.

your sentiment is much appreciated. but lets stick with the facts. idriss was not murdered. he was killed because he waved a knife at cops, almost slashing one to death. as much as we want to blame the police, we must also accept the fact that idriss made a decision to swing that knife, not the cops. idriss could have prevented his death , but he chose not to. now we can play monday morning quarterback and say the cops should have known that idriss was mentally ill, but lets be realistic. the cops probably had 5 seconds to acess the situation before it got out of hand. as much as we think that cops should be able to determine if someone is mentally ill just by looking at them, the reality is that it just isn't that easy. i pray for idriss and his mother, but we won't be able to heal until we acknowledge that idriss' death could have been prevented, by idriss himself. Bless.

>almost slashing one to death.

Oh, really? Which cop did he slash? Where? How deep?


>idriss made a decision to swing that knife, not the cops. idriss could have prevented his death , but he chose not to.

Idriss was mentally ill. By definition, he was incapable of making that decision. It was made for him by his mental illness.


>as much as we think that cops should be able to determine if someone is mentally ill just by looking at them, the reality is that it just isn't that easy.

A man with a two inch curved knife appears to attack several men armed with guns, clubs and MACE. If you can’t tell he’s mentally ill, you’re dumb as a brick. Sane people don’t *do* things like that, ever.

ok dead wrong...what were the cops supposed to do? you tell me mr. expert. and by the way, it is a fact that one of the officers shirts was slashed open across his chest and the only thing that saved him was his vest. i bet if you were in that same situation, dead wrong, that idriss stelley would still be alive. sane people don't swing knives at people, but because idriss was mentally ill the cops have no right to defend themselves or prevent injuries to themselves or others? you are using idriss' mental illness as an excuse for his actions. the next time there is a mentally ill person with a knife or a gun going on a rampage in the city of S.F, i think the po-lease should call you so you can tackle the subject and save us all from another "stolen life". Bless Idriss

i've got an idea. lets put everyone with mental illnesses in insane assylums. then i won't have to worry about going to the movies and getting slashed with a kn ife because someone "freaked". if a person is sane enough to live and function in society, he/she needs to take responsibility for themselves. it doesn't work both ways. we either can't let mentally ill people interact with those who aren't, or if we do we have to be able to let them be responsible for their own actions. if idriss was so mentally ill, he shouldn't have even been out that night.

i went to see swordfish at the metreon that night...i remember hearing idriss stelley say that if we have people who love us, we should leave. i also distinctly heard him say that if the cops came, he would "take one of them out " befeore they "got him". as i was leaving the theater, i remember thinking that someone was going to die. it was the saddest night of my life.

And we should believe you, why?

Ask Mesha, she knows what his girlfiend told the police he said (many witnesses).
Ask her why, if he was so mentally ill she let him out of the house?
Why did she arm him with a knife?
Why did she let him go see a violent movie?
Why did his girlfriend call the police from the theater and say he had a gun?
Why did she settle for 500k with no admission of wrong doing?
Come on, muni pays that much if you trip off the bus.......

Ask Mesha, she knows what his girlfiend told the police he said (many witnesses).
SAVE YOUR BREATH, I READ THE OFFICERS DEPOSITIONS, DIDN'T YOU Mr.Q-TIP OF THE FORGETFUL ICEBERG ?

Ask her why, if he was mentally ill, he was allowed outside of his house,
MAYBE IN YOUR LAST PAST-LIFE REGRESSION, YOU WENT BACK TO THE DARK AGES, WHEN YOUR PARENTS HAD YOU SHACKLED IN A PADLOCKED CHAMBER...YOU WERE SO RELIEVED TO FEEL SAFE WHEN BROUGHT BACK TO THE PRESENT: NOWADAYS IT IS PUNISHABLE TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW AS AN UNSPEAKABLE CRIME AGAINSTTHE MENTALLY ILL...

Why did she arm him with a knife?
FORGIVE US AGAIN, SELECTIVE MEMORY OFFICER, THE "KNIFE" (CHECK YOUR EXIBITS) WAS A ROUND TOOL ATTACHED TO A PAGER KNIFE. ONE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES AT THE SCENE, ACCORDING TO HER DEPOSITION, COULD "HEAR THE CHAIN WHISLING IN THE AIR" ALTHOUGH 10 FEET AWAY...WHAT A PRODIGIOUS IMAGINATION, WASTED ON SCHYZOPHREGENIC DELUSIONS INSTEAD OF INVENTING SAFER WAYS TO DE-ESCALATE A PATIENT, RATHER THAN OVERKILL...

Why did his girlfriend call the police from the theater and say he had a gun?
MY-MY... HOW MANY TIMES DID WE REMIND YOU TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK MONSIEUR Q, BEFORE YOU COME TO CLASS? REVIEW THE DISPATCHER'S TAPE (SEIZED BY THE BAY GUARDIAN A YEAR AGO), NO MENTION WHATSOEVER FROM SUMMER OF A GUN. NEXT TIME, (HOPEFULLY NOT), YOU WILL HAVE TO STAY AFTER CLASS!

Why did she settle for 500k with no admission of wrong doing?
SO WE KNOW BY NOW THAT READING PAST COMMENTS IS NOT YOUR FORTE. BUT I WILL NOT REITERATE, IT IS FASTIDIOUS TO THOSE WHO DO READ.

Come on, muni pays that much if you trip off the bus.......
YES MISTER Q, DON'T TRIP...WE STRONGLY ENCOURAGE YOU TO CHANNEL YOUR BOUNDFUL ENERGY INTO MORE REWARDING ENDEAVORS,DON'T FORGET TO TAKE YOUR GINKO BILOBA, MAY PEACE BE WITH YOU (THE FORCE ALREADY IS, ALTHOUGH MANY OF THEM HAVE EXPRESSED THEIR DISAGREEMENT AND SHAME ABOUT THE METREON TRAGEDY). BLESSINGS, mesha.

First time in 2 years and 2 months I actually hear from someone at the scene. I can't start to tell you how much it means to me...

In the mist of all the hate mail that has terribly intensified for the past 2 weeks, your comment made me cry like I had not cried for a long time. Someone who actually saw my Idriss in the very last minutes of his life, those minutes I will never live, actually heard him, in spite of his confusion and agitation, make a desperate attempt to protect other patrons (unlike the official police version repeatedly pushed by the Chronicle up to today, stating that Idriss had actually threatened them).

Knowing my son, who himself, probably frightened and delusional, called 911 from his cell phone (that I recuperated at the Coroner's office the next morning when I went to identify his body) 9 minutes before his death, he probably felt, given the commotion, time and place, that he was a dead man, and made a paranoid threat against the law...But not the patrons of the Metreon.

I would never justify a homocidal threat or its perpetration, but as all of us who have worked in the mental health field well know, threats of harm to others or oneself are the typical, case book presentation of a episode justifying a "5150", police code for a crisis intervention, to bring a distraught patient to a psychiatric facility for eveluation and treatment. Not for death row.

On several occasions, as part of my functions in crisis services (HIV dementia, substance use related psychosis, domestic violence), I have been assaulted by agitated or delusional clients and patients. I did not carry a gun, pepper spray, net, baton, handcuffs, actually have not had the luxury of a team back up. Yet, how many people have I disabled or killed during those scary moments? Exactamondo. That is the difference between de-escalation and overkill.

I am grateful that, without actually taking side with the family or the offended conservative members of our community, YOU have the courage to state the simple truth.

You gave ME courage to go on. Last year in March, the hate we, the family have been subjected to drove me to suicide. By the hand of God, I was discovered by a friend and I am still treated for Post Traumatic Stress and panick attacks.

I will not repeat the same mistake. My purpose is to start Idriss Selley Foundation. When well estlished and staffed, I will finally be able to "put it all behing me" and move on to silently grieving the loss of my son, with no grand children to soothe my pain, until my time comes to hopefully meet him again.

Again, thank you, m.

And, let's take your brillant idea one giant step further...

Given that 1 woman out of 6 suffers from chronic depression nation wide (and we know how exasperating and dangerous those females are), PMS is on the rise and bipolers are often never diagnosed,

Given that East Coast psy. & social workers often get rid of their annoying cases by getting them a one-way bus ticket to San Francisco,

Given that drug and alcohol use, white and blue collar alike on tht one, is majorly responsible for violent episodes,

Given that road rage is on the rise in a geometric progression,

Given the growing number of executives going on a killing rampage when fired or simply skipping promotion...Given...Shall I continue?

Yes ! Let's incarcerate them all in concentration camps for the mentally ill and clean your streets!

Oh my...Then where did ALL the people go?

You could have saved your repetitious fallacies by reading the seized deposition of Officer Flaminger who kept telling Holly Pera, Homicide Investigator,in July 2001 that he never made "impact with the suspect" and had "no clue" on how his shirt got torn.

But we forgive you for the oversight, and you, too, Are blessed.

It is a blessing to read a logical and impartial comment, and quite refreshing!

You are not defending my son, you just give us a reminder of the mentally ill incapicity to exercize objective thinking,and make responsible decisions.

I thank you ! Cordially, mesha.

This is exhausting...

Flaminger stated in his deposition of JUly 2001 that he never made impat w/ the suspect and had no clue on how his shirt got torn.

"now we can play monday morning quarterback"

Call me touchy...Are we playing a game? I'm am not, believe it or not, loosing your only child does nothing to maintain your sense of joy, hope, let alone fun and games. I would appreciate, oh Chistian one, your discriminating judgment in your choice of terms.

"the cops probably had 5 seconds to acess the situation before it got out of hand"

Erroneous. The dispatcher clearly signified to SFPD that they were on their way to do a "5150", crisis intervention w/ a person in mental distress. From the dispatch call to 9 officers from 3 precincts arriving to the scene, there was ample time to plan a sucessful strategy for de-escalation. Upon arrivung, they perfectly knew what was going on: the security guard let them know that Idriss sat on the back row of an EMPTY theater, all other adjacent theaters were promptly evacuated at shotguns...Could we PLEASE, one might order, as the commanding officer, keep all doors to that specific theater shut until a mediator comes at the scene? Until the family is called? Don't get me wrong, I carry, as strange as it may seem, no personal animosity against the 9 "frightened" officers who escalated Idriss into his untimely death, there are also vctims of a bigger, ingrained systemic, orgamization culture.
So let's do away with the crual games. I hope your condescendance was unintentional.

Thank you, from the heart.

Responses like yours pull me out of shame and despair, and remind me sharply of the amplitude of the task, the people counting on us, the voices and courage of the many who beleive that perseverance and dignity will prevail. Again, thank you ! m.

and would like to know you.

in solidarity, mesha.

"Stolen Lives"

is a book DOCUMENTING people killed by law enforcement. It does not constitute an intent of exoneration for unlawful activities, but rather a healing tool for the surviving families, to look at the picture of their lost ones in remembrance, commiserate with the pain of families (often themselves vilified by the media) undergoing similar tragedy, develop a network of grief and healing support.

I totally agree on the fact that the 3 drunken retards actions do not reflect on the entire SFPD!

On another hand, the coverup of their misconduct by the "top guns" (unfortunate metaphore...) of SFPD is the real scandal, not the idiotic offenders.

What cover up?

how can the police cover up an incident that was on the news and in the chronicle every day for months? if it was a true cover up, we wouldn't know anything about it.

mesha,
in a perfect world the sfpd could have locked down the theatre nd waited for family to arrive, but this isn't a perfect world. if you listen to the dispatch tapes the officers thought they were responding to a "person with a gun" call. if it was just a 5150 call, why did the cops think he had a gun? the cops get their info from the dispatchers who get their info from 911 callers..who said Idriss had a gun? maybe metreon security, maybe his girlfriend. the cops response to a "gun" call is much different than to just a "5150".

the only cover up I see is being formed and presented to the public in this thread. the distortions ,half truths, and all out lies lead me to believe that this is only an attempt to discredit the police as was the subsequent topic of this rally. no doubt this situation was created by the organizers of this rally to build support (and donations $$$) for their cause.

Mesha...Mesha...Mesha..The three drunken "Retards"? Is that what your touchy feely class teaches..to call people retards? You presented yourself as an expert in dealing with the meatally ill, is that what you call them when nobody is around...would it be ok for the SFPD to refer to your son as a retard..or would that be cause for you to bring another law suit? Please expalin, I though that was exactly what you wanted to teach the SFPD all about...

agreed, poor choice of word.

I must confess that when I first read about the incident, my reaction was:

How could the officers, on or off duty, ebriated or not, could attempt to steal food from 2 young brothers, then brutalize them...beyond resisting arrest, we now face resisting robbery from SFPD officers?

But I do join you in redirecting my energy into modeling behavior.

Along with that intent, I will not respond any longer to mail that blinds my vision for unity and peace, but will definitely continue responding to mail that conveys compassion, solidarity and a desire for solutions.

Therefore, good bye, Mister Q....,Q.....,Q....., you are in my prayers, mesha (mesha, mesha).

as far as criminal sympathizers go this foolishness only perpetuates the myth of the black criminal
and the ghetto that breeds them.
You babblings are an embarrassment to our race!
the fact that you have made some very wrong choices is on you...... "DEAL WITH IT!"
and quit playing the oppressed Negro, some of us are actually trying to do some thing with our lives and WE DO NOT APPRECIATE IT.

thank you

He wasn't a criminal. He was mentally ill.

so, jeffery dahmer wasn't a criminal either.

Are you comparing Idriss to Jeffery Dahmer or are you trying to tell us Jeffery Dahmer shouldn't have been in a mental institution?

Brother D-day makes a valid point, yes they were both mentally ill and yes they were both criminals and yes they were both held responsible for their actions in the eys of the law. There is no denying both were mentally ill, yet neither one played on the freeway or continually put their finger in the electric socket...why?...because they both new the difference between right and wrong, and that is the test in the eyes of the law. Does anybody here actually read about shit before they starting popping off like they know something?......LOL...LOL.....ROLF......

"Dan White knew the right people."

He knew all the jurors?

Again nessie you did not do you home work, the "Dan White" defense is no longer valid in California and has not been for a long time. Please do a little research before you spew, it only makes you looks stupid...LOL

john q. public has once agin proven that he is a person of high intelligence, and once again nessie has proven that he is just "high".

And I never said anything about moral choices, but you claim that was what I was talking about. Where that came from only your silly little mind can tell. It is just another example of when you can not argue the point, you make stuff up totally off the subject. Why don't you leave the law and law enforcement subjects alone, you know nothing about them and sound silly when you act like you do. If I have any questions about brick laying you will be the first person I ask. It does not make me any better than you, its just that is what I , and that is what you do.

Look guys, nessie has its views, and if you type facts that might cause nessie to alter its views, it will either call you a liar or delete your comments. THat's how it works. But keep trying to make people focus on truth and an honest, balanced perspective. Those things are nessie's enemy.

Nessie I'll try this one more time, chalk this up as part of your "Great deal" of research. The Courts do NOT look at you moaral choices, they do not care if you slept with you wifes sister, cheated on you SAT's, or lied to your mother about breaking the window..those are moral choices. Rather, they look whether you knew the difference between right and wrong. One of the things they look at is your behavior pattern (ie playing on the freeway, taking a bus, paying bills, stuff like that). They also look at the time of the act whether you knew it was right or wrong. This is called the M'Naghten Rule, aka "Right from wrong test."
Next time nessie try reading my posts word for word, as you will soon learn there are no secret meanings, no hidden codes, and no subliminal messages. I use simple examples, because, ummmm, people like you.
I will be happy to answer any other questions you may have, unlike you, if I dont know the answer I will look it up rather than changing the topic.

I'm with the government. I'm here to help you.

true, everyone here is with the government, it's our civic duty, and whether they admit it or not, this is the greatest Nation this world has ever scene.. And everyone who posts on these boards is proud to be an American other wise they would not be living here...

Do you enjoy having conversations with yourself?

Naw, it's just people wishing they were me...LOL

Nobody in their right mind would wish that. Please seek professional help.

if you don't agree with john q., you are the one who needs help.

You might as well have typed "I know you are but what am I?" How old are you? Ten? PATHETIC.

dear scottie,
i was simply saying that john q public is right on this issue. if you can't see that, you obviously are not enlightened on the case. what is truly pathetic is that you are commenting on something you know nothing about. these are issues you don't learn about in community college. BEAM YOURSELF UP SCOTTIE!

Sorry, but I don't wish to correspond with immature jerks like you. Good day.

"BEAM YOURSELF UP SCOTTIE!"

WELL SAID, brother d-day !!

Scottie is not even American! And he certainly isn't living in the Bay Area, if he lives in this country at all! We have to put up with him in all the Zionism/Israel topic threads. Naturally, he is Zionist/pro-Israel, which means he supports the occupation and oppression of the Palestinians. So, of course, you can imagine his view about Blacks!--another occupied and oppressed people.

He's never even been to Hunter's Point. (He probably doesn't even know where it is!) Police brutality in America is only surpassed (I'm afraid *greatly*) by police/military brutality in Palestine against the Palestinians: the "niggers" of Israel. This is the perspective Scottie comes from. I saw Scottie's name in the comments thread listings and I just had to see what the *hell* he was saying in *this* thread!--a long way from home for him! I guess--like many arrogant, racist whites--he feels he can spout off about *anything*.

In fact, I always used to end my responses to him (before I got too bored), "The one on the Enterprise was much brighter!"

He became so nasty to a woman in the other threads that I just started calling him "SNOTTIE"!

None of the comments in this post are mine (except this one)
They are just no content ad homenem attacks .. that is not my style.

"BEAM YOURSELF UP SCOTTIE!
WELL SAID, brother d-day !!"

Do you realise you ae agreeing with a (at least somewhat ) conservative persons attack on a fake scottie. meaning that ... er ... your on my side? that would be out of character for you.

"Naturally, he is Zionist/pro-Israel, which means he supports the occupation and oppression of the Palestinians. "

You have made a leap of faith between being "pro israel" and "pro-oppression"

"So, of course, you can imagine his view about Blacks!--another occupied and oppressed people."

Yeah Im such a dedicated KKK member that I beat myself and my wife up every day.
(note that was sarcasm)

"He's never even been to Hunter's Point. (He probably doesn't even know where it is!) "

That might explain why I didnt post in this thread.

"Police brutality in America is only surpassed (I'm afraid *greatly*) by police/military brutality in Palestine against the Palestinians: the "niggers" of Israel."

I have actually posted in threads that concerned police brutality and discrimination against blacks (for example). However you conclusion above appears to have omitted "almost every other country except america and israel"

"-he feels he can spout off about *anything*."

Just keep rubbing your nose in it mate

However I would argue (on the law debate) it seems america has a problem with the fact that the ability to threaten to sue is in part a class issue.
Some people will be recognised as more able to sue and thus get preferential treatment. It might be surprising (or not I dont know) that this individual was able to sue however it may also reflect the assumption that they could not.
A settlement with no acceptance of blame by law and in reality proves nothing concerning their guilt.
However anarchism is not a good answer to police discrimination (by class or race or anyother catagory) . the police still serve an important function of protecting the rights and encouraging respects for the laws of society and many other countries are capable of maintaining a honest police force without constant sueing

The last post I made was on Thursday @ 10:21PM.

Wow, someone sure did a good job imitating your stupidity, Scottie! I guess it doesn't take much effort, huh, Scottie?

FAKE POSTS AGAINST YOU? GOOD!

(MY THANKS TO WHOEVER DID THAT!)

AND AGAINST ALL YOUR ZIONIST BUDDIES? GOOD!

NOW YOU ZIONISTS KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU DO IMPOSTER POSTS!

YOU ZIONISTS WERE WARNED TO STOP, BUT YOU DIDN'T.

NOW YOU GET WHAT YOU'VE GOT COMING!

GOOD!

(If I were you, I'd spend the rest of the day--and ALL the following days--going through the other threads.)

You seem care much too much JA
are you saying you would go to every thead and post after every fake JA comment if someone faked you?
That would be allowing him to waste your time also particularly when one gets told all the time that they knew it was a fake already.

Anyone who knows my posts and is not blinded by some sort of hatred for me will see that this sort of post and my posts are quite different. The problem for the faker is the thing that he is trying to do is the same sort of tactic that I wouldnt use.

are you so self absorbed that you go over this whole web sight looking for "ja impersonators"
you have got to be foolin, impersonating you would be like impersonating al gore, (interesting for about ten seconds then ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
snooze-ville man

i oppose scottie's political world-view--but he conducts himself in good faith and, aside from some sloppiness, tends to articulate his views rather well. it's a credit to SFindymedia's editorial policy that he's allowed to post on this board despite the fact that his views are generally rightist.

you look the fool when you leap onto a thread denouncing a straw-Scottie (a straw-Scottie, it might be noted, that was taking a relative "left" position in the debate). you look like complete and utter fool when you continue in your missives even after being notified of this fact.

you look the fool when you leap onto a thread denouncing a straw-Scottie (a straw-Scottie, it might be noted, that was taking a relative "left" position in the debate). you look like complete and utter fool when you continue in your missives even after being notified of this fact.

well this seems to happen quite often, and I can't quite help but wonder if this isn't an excuse to go off on some one? this seems to be a reoccurring event.

Mesha,

I just came across this page and was disturbed by the lack of compassion by some of these posts.
I feel I must give you my condolences and apologize for others ignorance and anger posted on this page. To me making city officials pay is the only way to change the impulsive reactions of our police officers. I know that anyone (especially those who have posted against you here) would do the same. You should be commended for using that money to further make a difference. I cannot believe that not only have you lost your child, but now you are being abused by people instead of embraced and nurtured! It seems as though you are strong and surrounded by love so I know that you will survive, but as a mother myself I must say if something were to happen to my child I could not be as kind as you are to those who are responding with such nonsense.

Be strong and keep fighting, you have done nothing wrong!

Much love