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Indybay Feature
Cop Saboteur Mayday Arrest
Here are some preliminary photos of the undercover "black block" police agent who arrested an indymedia reporter.
Due to technical difficulties, full video is not being posted.
These images show fairly well that a demonstrator was
pushed into the police line by someone clad in black, with a
hoodie and mask, who then walked *through* the police
line and up the stairs to hide on someone's front steps
behind a tree.
The arrest occurred just as another arrest was executed.
Some felt the first arrest -- which appeared to be orchestrated as
if to look like police lines were attacked -- was a
distraction in order to execute the second arrest.
When one videographer tried to position himself to
get an image of the hiding saboteur, police charged him.
When people demanded to know who the saboteur was, and even
demanded that he be arrested (citizen's arrest, which the
police have the duty to execute), he left the steps and walked offthrough
many more police officers.
Many thought this was clearly a police set-up.
That may not be the case, but there is little question
that the saboteur was working with police, and
probably was a police officer.
These images show fairly well that a demonstrator was
pushed into the police line by someone clad in black, with a
hoodie and mask, who then walked *through* the police
line and up the stairs to hide on someone's front steps
behind a tree.
The arrest occurred just as another arrest was executed.
Some felt the first arrest -- which appeared to be orchestrated as
if to look like police lines were attacked -- was a
distraction in order to execute the second arrest.
When one videographer tried to position himself to
get an image of the hiding saboteur, police charged him.
When people demanded to know who the saboteur was, and even
demanded that he be arrested (citizen's arrest, which the
police have the duty to execute), he left the steps and walked offthrough
many more police officers.
Many thought this was clearly a police set-up.
That may not be the case, but there is little question
that the saboteur was working with police, and
probably was a police officer.
For more information:
http://xinet.com/rts/
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Thank you SOOOO much for this beautiful camera work. It made my day to see the police get caught in their filthy habits.
We need to start a collection of these types of events, because they're going to be happening more and more as we get deeper into this quagmire we call capitalism.
We need to start a collection of these types of events, because they're going to be happening more and more as we get deeper into this quagmire we call capitalism.
This is retarded. When someone puts their hands on you like that, it's called assault. You are well within your rights to employ equal and opposite force. Which means:
If I were being shoved by some idiot in a hooded jacket, I'd shove his ass back harder. If he tried anything else, I'm sure my loyal fellow protestors and eye witnesses would tackle his dumb ass to the ground and expect the police carry out their responsibilities and arrest the guy for assault.
Looking at these pictures makes me think the whole event was staged by the protestors. Typical IndyMedia black operation.
If I were being shoved by some idiot in a hooded jacket, I'd shove his ass back harder. If he tried anything else, I'm sure my loyal fellow protestors and eye witnesses would tackle his dumb ass to the ground and expect the police carry out their responsibilities and arrest the guy for assault.
Looking at these pictures makes me think the whole event was staged by the protestors. Typical IndyMedia black operation.
Are you following the sequence of events shown in the video? The 2nd person was arrested while trying to go over to the person who shoved the first person who was arrested, and to photograph them and possibly place them under citizen's arrest. The videotape clearly shows this. What you're saying doesn't make sense.
Oh how I wish the cops would have cracked open a few more skulls of the pampered class that like to play revolutionary between semesters. Hmmm, where's my bat??
When do we get to see the video?
I understand there were 'technical dificulties,' but I'm DYING to see this video.
I understand there were 'technical dificulties,' but I'm DYING to see this video.
I'm not blaming the victim, I'm saying that the cops and their bosses, the ruling class will ALWAYS infiltrate. Wearing masks just makes it easier for them.
For more information:
http://www.CapitalismSucks.com
This is enough to sue the bastards with a few coroborating witnesses. They CANNOT be allowed to get away with this shit! A good lawyer can be retained for a few hundred bucks down...use them!
The sequence of events of the first arrests went like this:
As we were marching along the line of cops, I saw about five of them talking to each other and one of them pointing to one person in the crowd. By the time I realized what was happening and shouted a warning to others, the cops had already gone in and grabbed that person (wearing a black hooded sweatshirt with patches), which was the first arrest. Almost immediately after that, I saw some other cops to the right who were tackling down a person who was trying to take pictures of the first arrest. This was the second arrest that the pictures above seems to show pretty clearly and as many who witnessed it described as a dirty undercover police operation.
By the way, is it just me or does "Eric" above sound like a cop?
As we were marching along the line of cops, I saw about five of them talking to each other and one of them pointing to one person in the crowd. By the time I realized what was happening and shouted a warning to others, the cops had already gone in and grabbed that person (wearing a black hooded sweatshirt with patches), which was the first arrest. Almost immediately after that, I saw some other cops to the right who were tackling down a person who was trying to take pictures of the first arrest. This was the second arrest that the pictures above seems to show pretty clearly and as many who witnessed it described as a dirty undercover police operation.
By the way, is it just me or does "Eric" above sound like a cop?
It's a funny puzzle, actually. A quick-witted person could have grabbed the head of the man in black from behind and hauled backward--that would at least have interrupted the frame-up routine. Or maybe better, you could just grab the cameraman and pull him away from the disguised guy.
Beating up a cop, legality aside, is not easy or advisable. They train for that, and this fellow was no chubby older man. There's a reason you don't read accounts of cops being beaten.
More practically, since he plainly was a cop, and the ones in riot helmets clearly knew it, they would instantly have descended on anyone who really attacked him. Even pursuing the least confrontational course, grabbing the cameraman, would most likely inspire all cops present to make damned sure they arrested you. Nobody likes to lose an argument, and cops at a protest think of all interactions with civilians as arguments.
There is a weird double bind, though, if you're scrupulously careful not to initiate physical contact with any clearly identified officer. Legally, a civilian can be arrested for touching a cop--I think that's true in all states, though I haven't reseached it.
It's also, happily, illegal to assault a non-cop. But to intervene in a clearly defensive way, getting the cameraman out of there and making minimal contact with the man in black, would only be prosecutable if it were revealed that the man in black was a cop--which makes him culpable for his own unprovoked and illegal assault on a civilian.
Basically you can probably count on getting arrested on the spot if you interfere with his kind of episode, but if you're careful, they've got no charge they can level against you without exposing their own attempt to make an arrest in bad faith. Bad publicity, that.
Of course, just like they refused to arrest the disguised cop, they'd be happy to falsify the entire story. The camera coverage is crucial! Which is of course why a guy with a camera was targeted in the first place.
Great work, getting these photos. Please trumpet the video to the skies, as soon as possible!
Last note--if you're in the position of the cameraman, some useful things to do would be: to go completely limp before he's got a very solid grip on you; grab for any other non-cop who's watching and might help anchor you; and call out to the cops on the line that you're being assaulted, ask for their help. (Again, they won't play along since that was their plan, but it makes the incident even more starkly obvious).
Beating up a cop, legality aside, is not easy or advisable. They train for that, and this fellow was no chubby older man. There's a reason you don't read accounts of cops being beaten.
More practically, since he plainly was a cop, and the ones in riot helmets clearly knew it, they would instantly have descended on anyone who really attacked him. Even pursuing the least confrontational course, grabbing the cameraman, would most likely inspire all cops present to make damned sure they arrested you. Nobody likes to lose an argument, and cops at a protest think of all interactions with civilians as arguments.
There is a weird double bind, though, if you're scrupulously careful not to initiate physical contact with any clearly identified officer. Legally, a civilian can be arrested for touching a cop--I think that's true in all states, though I haven't reseached it.
It's also, happily, illegal to assault a non-cop. But to intervene in a clearly defensive way, getting the cameraman out of there and making minimal contact with the man in black, would only be prosecutable if it were revealed that the man in black was a cop--which makes him culpable for his own unprovoked and illegal assault on a civilian.
Basically you can probably count on getting arrested on the spot if you interfere with his kind of episode, but if you're careful, they've got no charge they can level against you without exposing their own attempt to make an arrest in bad faith. Bad publicity, that.
Of course, just like they refused to arrest the disguised cop, they'd be happy to falsify the entire story. The camera coverage is crucial! Which is of course why a guy with a camera was targeted in the first place.
Great work, getting these photos. Please trumpet the video to the skies, as soon as possible!
Last note--if you're in the position of the cameraman, some useful things to do would be: to go completely limp before he's got a very solid grip on you; grab for any other non-cop who's watching and might help anchor you; and call out to the cops on the line that you're being assaulted, ask for their help. (Again, they won't play along since that was their plan, but it makes the incident even more starkly obvious).
For more information:
http://www.ambiguous.org/robin/commentary
I guess the first amendment has been declared null and void by the goddamned pigs!!!
Arresting a reporter? Don't those bastards realize this makes them look even worse, (if that's even possible?)
Fuck it, I am going to Amsterdam! I have had it with the USA!!!
Arresting a reporter? Don't those bastards realize this makes them look even worse, (if that's even possible?)
Fuck it, I am going to Amsterdam! I have had it with the USA!!!
Jesse (and all others interested, except for the flamers, cops and others acting in bad faith),
the video will be shown for sure, although a time and place
has not yet been set. Copies have been distributed for the
protection of the evidence and the videographers. I just
want to make it clear again that these images don't begin
to show it as clearly as the video shows. Contact the
Mayday Convergence if you'd like to help coordinate
(or simply attend) such a showing.
mayday-info [at] festivalsofresistance.net
Or Reclaim the Streets, General contact line: (415) 820-9658, email contact: rts_eastbay [at] yahoo.com
General contact line: (415) 820-9658
Email contact: rts_eastbay [at] yahoo.com
The man in blue,
who is an Indymedia reporter, was forced all the way across
the intersection. He had been walking along talking amiably with someone
just before.
The first arrest involved the cops huddling briefly, then
walking along the police line as if they were looking ahead,
then suddenly surrounding and tackling someone.
I imagine the Long Haul Cafe night would be a good place
to show the video publicly on short notice, if those organizing it
will allow. There's a delicious vegan dinner served there
Sunday nights at 7:30 PM. 3124 Shattuck Ave two blocks east of Ashby BART, at Woolsey, across from La Pena.
Unfortunately, you won't be seeing it on the corporate media anytime
soon, despite efforts of some good people (including
people who work at one station!). This just underscores
on the local level how corrupt the mass media is and
how important Indymedia is. Protect this project! Use it
well! Be careful about what you post and don't let the
(probably paid!) people who post negative and inflamatory
crap get you down. We've got a beautiful vision here folks and
it's all on us to make it work and really use it.
Here's the press release which went out to mass media
about the saboteur -- you decide if they should have given
a call. (Oh yeah, along those lines, it's most amazing
that the London Guardian included mention of the
SF Bay Area Mayday Festivals of Resistance but
the SF Guardian didn't!!!).
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
For Immediate Release: May 1, 2002
Contact: Mayday, 415.820.9658 or e-mail mayday-info [at] festivalsofresistance.net
FALSE ARREST BY "BLACK BLOCK" POLICE SABOTEUR!
Three arrests at May Eve Reclaim the Streets demonstration in Berkeley last night.
Indymedia reporter targeted by police frame-up.
Quality video footage clearly shows a man dressed as part of the "black block" (with mask and hood) shove a peaceful demonstrator across the intersection of Fulton and Ashby in Berkeley, directly into the police line, where he was immediately violently arrested. Witnesses felt that the agent was trying to give the impression that the demonstrator had charged the police line, but video clearly refutes the notion that the demonstrator was anything but a helpless victim.
The undercover agent passed quickly through the police line and walked away as if nothing happened, while others attempting to be witnesses were clubbed or chased away. When demonstrators demanded that the "black block" agent saboteur be arrested and identified for pushing the peaceful demonstrator into the police line, the agent (who was then hiding on a front porch, behind a tree) left the porch and walked through still more groups of police with impunity. The arrestee was a photographer working with Indymedia. http://www.indybay.org/
Another arrest occurred just before and during this arrest. Witnesses said it could have been meant as a distraction. That first arrest, just as the second, occurred suddenly and through the use of surprise, diverting attention from the second arrest of the reporter. What if no one had seen what really happened, and the reporter was framed for assault on a police officer? Given the history of FBI attempts to target Indymedia, and the current climate of repression brought about by the Patriot Act and other acts against the people, this possibility is worthy of investigation.
Footage available from two camera angles.
The May Eve Reclaim the Streets demonstration was part of the "Mayday Convergence: Autonomous Festivals of Resistance", a week of resistance in many forms, celebrating Mayday. Anti-capitalist Convergence & Autonomous Festivals of Resistance is a week-long series of direct actions, demonstrations, marches and celebrations to oppose Global Capitalism and all forms of oppression. A variety of events have been taking place in the San Francisco Bay Area from April 26th to May 1st. The convergence continues the centuries-old tradition of May Day as a time of celebration of the Earth and human creativity. May Day has been an Anarchist and pro-worker holiday internationally since the general strikes of 1886.
For a more complete schedule of events, including photos, contact information and more details, visit http://www.festivalsofresistance.net
# # #
the video will be shown for sure, although a time and place
has not yet been set. Copies have been distributed for the
protection of the evidence and the videographers. I just
want to make it clear again that these images don't begin
to show it as clearly as the video shows. Contact the
Mayday Convergence if you'd like to help coordinate
(or simply attend) such a showing.
mayday-info [at] festivalsofresistance.net
Or Reclaim the Streets, General contact line: (415) 820-9658, email contact: rts_eastbay [at] yahoo.com
General contact line: (415) 820-9658
Email contact: rts_eastbay [at] yahoo.com
The man in blue,
who is an Indymedia reporter, was forced all the way across
the intersection. He had been walking along talking amiably with someone
just before.
The first arrest involved the cops huddling briefly, then
walking along the police line as if they were looking ahead,
then suddenly surrounding and tackling someone.
I imagine the Long Haul Cafe night would be a good place
to show the video publicly on short notice, if those organizing it
will allow. There's a delicious vegan dinner served there
Sunday nights at 7:30 PM. 3124 Shattuck Ave two blocks east of Ashby BART, at Woolsey, across from La Pena.
Unfortunately, you won't be seeing it on the corporate media anytime
soon, despite efforts of some good people (including
people who work at one station!). This just underscores
on the local level how corrupt the mass media is and
how important Indymedia is. Protect this project! Use it
well! Be careful about what you post and don't let the
(probably paid!) people who post negative and inflamatory
crap get you down. We've got a beautiful vision here folks and
it's all on us to make it work and really use it.
Here's the press release which went out to mass media
about the saboteur -- you decide if they should have given
a call. (Oh yeah, along those lines, it's most amazing
that the London Guardian included mention of the
SF Bay Area Mayday Festivals of Resistance but
the SF Guardian didn't!!!).
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
For Immediate Release: May 1, 2002
Contact: Mayday, 415.820.9658 or e-mail mayday-info [at] festivalsofresistance.net
FALSE ARREST BY "BLACK BLOCK" POLICE SABOTEUR!
Three arrests at May Eve Reclaim the Streets demonstration in Berkeley last night.
Indymedia reporter targeted by police frame-up.
Quality video footage clearly shows a man dressed as part of the "black block" (with mask and hood) shove a peaceful demonstrator across the intersection of Fulton and Ashby in Berkeley, directly into the police line, where he was immediately violently arrested. Witnesses felt that the agent was trying to give the impression that the demonstrator had charged the police line, but video clearly refutes the notion that the demonstrator was anything but a helpless victim.
The undercover agent passed quickly through the police line and walked away as if nothing happened, while others attempting to be witnesses were clubbed or chased away. When demonstrators demanded that the "black block" agent saboteur be arrested and identified for pushing the peaceful demonstrator into the police line, the agent (who was then hiding on a front porch, behind a tree) left the porch and walked through still more groups of police with impunity. The arrestee was a photographer working with Indymedia. http://www.indybay.org/
Another arrest occurred just before and during this arrest. Witnesses said it could have been meant as a distraction. That first arrest, just as the second, occurred suddenly and through the use of surprise, diverting attention from the second arrest of the reporter. What if no one had seen what really happened, and the reporter was framed for assault on a police officer? Given the history of FBI attempts to target Indymedia, and the current climate of repression brought about by the Patriot Act and other acts against the people, this possibility is worthy of investigation.
Footage available from two camera angles.
The May Eve Reclaim the Streets demonstration was part of the "Mayday Convergence: Autonomous Festivals of Resistance", a week of resistance in many forms, celebrating Mayday. Anti-capitalist Convergence & Autonomous Festivals of Resistance is a week-long series of direct actions, demonstrations, marches and celebrations to oppose Global Capitalism and all forms of oppression. A variety of events have been taking place in the San Francisco Bay Area from April 26th to May 1st. The convergence continues the centuries-old tradition of May Day as a time of celebration of the Earth and human creativity. May Day has been an Anarchist and pro-worker holiday internationally since the general strikes of 1886.
For a more complete schedule of events, including photos, contact information and more details, visit http://www.festivalsofresistance.net
# # #
For more information:
http://www.festivalsofresistance.net/
how is it that some detractors of indymedia think that the folks who demonstrate are students, not employed, etc.??
are they really so ignorant to think that folks who work are not part of the opposition to a police state?
are they really so ignorant to think that folks who work are not part of the opposition to a police state?
the person arrested in these photographs did not go to any schooling past high school.
we dont' make ourselves look very smart when we are putting out press releases that say "balck block," as in a block of something that is black. drop the k and you get a "bloc," as in a group of people, a group of states, communities, etc.
maybe those who are soo ready to be on the frontlines for a few years before they sell out their beliefs should stay in school a little longer and learn to speak and write english first.
maybe those who are soo ready to be on the frontlines for a few years before they sell out their beliefs should stay in school a little longer and learn to speak and write english first.
First, quick note--this is a big story. Who cares about grammatical errors? Why waste space rising to some numbskulled (and oddly inoffensive) taunt aimed broadly at all protesters?
About the video. Are these viewings all scheduled for the bay area? This story is a lot bigger than that! Please, get a copy digitized and mounted on the web--available for download, so multiple copies can proliferate. The next year will probably see an escalating effort by police to crack down on anyone with a camera--of which this, and a creepy alleged memo issued in DC before A20, are early examples.
The Constitution is flatly against any such crackdown, but we've seen that the police are disappointingly unconcerned with legality in their own efforts. So our best course of action is to multiply the cameras, and keep them busy--to enable just such incidents as this, in which a police effort to sack a cameraman has led chiefly to a beaut of a documented illegal police action in itself.
You've proven that this can be done, but we need to maintain a lot of cameras to do it.
If there are really two angles, please, publish them both online! Loudly! Also, don't give up on hawking it to mainstream media. Any media that has viewers is worth approaching. Keep track of any rejections you receive; you might score with one network that wants to "expose a coverup" being conducted by its rival network. I don't know. Maybe.
One more note on this incident: it's a damning testimony about what a weakness the practice of masking can be for us. Do you really think, if they're so intent on you that they'd trace you by your picture, that they won't just arrest you and identify you anyway? Openness is a better course for us--openness benefits the honest. Even if only a few protesters mask, there will always be cops with masks on buried in protest marches. They have more to fear from their pictures being taken than we do. The risk in masking far outweighs the benefits.
The cops understand that masking works for them; we should unerstand it too.
About the video. Are these viewings all scheduled for the bay area? This story is a lot bigger than that! Please, get a copy digitized and mounted on the web--available for download, so multiple copies can proliferate. The next year will probably see an escalating effort by police to crack down on anyone with a camera--of which this, and a creepy alleged memo issued in DC before A20, are early examples.
The Constitution is flatly against any such crackdown, but we've seen that the police are disappointingly unconcerned with legality in their own efforts. So our best course of action is to multiply the cameras, and keep them busy--to enable just such incidents as this, in which a police effort to sack a cameraman has led chiefly to a beaut of a documented illegal police action in itself.
You've proven that this can be done, but we need to maintain a lot of cameras to do it.
If there are really two angles, please, publish them both online! Loudly! Also, don't give up on hawking it to mainstream media. Any media that has viewers is worth approaching. Keep track of any rejections you receive; you might score with one network that wants to "expose a coverup" being conducted by its rival network. I don't know. Maybe.
One more note on this incident: it's a damning testimony about what a weakness the practice of masking can be for us. Do you really think, if they're so intent on you that they'd trace you by your picture, that they won't just arrest you and identify you anyway? Openness is a better course for us--openness benefits the honest. Even if only a few protesters mask, there will always be cops with masks on buried in protest marches. They have more to fear from their pictures being taken than we do. The risk in masking far outweighs the benefits.
The cops understand that masking works for them; we should unerstand it too.
For more information:
http://www.ambiguous.org/robin/commentary
So up in Seattle, we've seen the same set of undercover cops appear time and again at RTS, WTO, etc... My friends and I usually, point and yell loudly, "Look everyone, it's the undercover cop again. " Sometimes, they leave, sometimes not. Anyway, any suggestions on better ways to remove them from area. Also, anyone know about the legality of exposing them? I suppose the trick is to try and get the media & public to recognize the lengths that the police are going to. It shows that they're desperate, and that the actions of "protestors" are not always what they seem.
where were you when the saboteur pushed the demonstrator into police lines?.... comment on your comment:Reading the text you wrote makes me think you were probably one of the filthy cops or even one of the stinking saboteurs(there were many)just don't be so quick to form an opinion for things you have all of the info!!!!!!!
For more information:
http://ixnay
IMO: Getting the video of this onto the net is _way_ more useful than showing it around at a few gatherings.
Sure, show it at those places, but if you get it on the net way more people will be able to see it, and then show it to others.
As it stands a pretty good case has been made that this was an agent provoceteur (?), but I, and others, would likely be much more inclined to beleive this if I could view the video... and I can't get up to Berkeley to see it..
Sure, show it at those places, but if you get it on the net way more people will be able to see it, and then show it to others.
As it stands a pretty good case has been made that this was an agent provoceteur (?), but I, and others, would likely be much more inclined to beleive this if I could view the video... and I can't get up to Berkeley to see it..
Okay dokay.
Two things.
To the "veganwar" (uh...ethical contradiction!?) spelling teacher, thank you thank you thank you for pointing out that evidently the historical and/or correct cool euro way
to spell "Black Block" is "Black Bloc", although you misspelled "black" as "balck". However, you are incorrect
in asserting that I "stay in school a little longer and learn to speak and write english first.". Not only is that
rilly rilly ethnocentric english uber alles but the term,
"bloc" by my big ol' Webster's English Dictionary is from the French and literally means, "Block".
Not to mention that the entire term was put in quotes which
would tend to indicate that it is someone else's words, or
somehow to be viewed skeptically. As in Black Block Heads, the police saboteur. But no I didn't consciously
make that subtle pun -- maybe it was unconscious.
Lemme also assert that school is not necessarily the best place to
learn about spelling. And spelling itself is constrictive and discriminatory. Many people, particularly in this techno-drugged test tube cathode ray tube latch-key baybee society,
have learning disabilities. On top o'that people have spelling checkings.
But if I hadn't been so poor putting myself through school I
mighta had the money to buyt the latest word processor and
maybe it knows how to spell Black Bloc, cuz back in 1995 or so only really hip anarchists knew about the
Black Bloc which was mostly strong in Europe. And generally
did weird things like walk in a block. (In France, "bloc"), which is kinda sorta
differente (that's Spanish) como la lucha en Seattle.
(Different from the Battle of Seattle).
Okaye the second and actually more important thing than
ranting about semantics and cultural imperialism and
ad hominem attacks based on wild assumptions which
undermine the credibility and efficaciousedeneeeserrrr
of our glorious Indymedia....
About Masks.
Last year at the rather impressive Reclaim the Streets
(http://xinet.com/rts/) Mayday party, one of the videographers
who captured the saboteur last night (at the May Eve RTS
demo, a limited collection of still images from one of which are above) there was a rather contrasting event.
A young man with a mask was running along "vandalizing" stuff with spray paint as I recall.
Police surrounded him, yanked down his li'l boy mask
(kinda like yanking down your pants, no?) and told him
not to do it again. And let him go.
It's weird folks, how the SFPD and BPD flip flop. It's like
transbay departmental good-cop v. bad-cop.
Useda be BPD let RTS go free and SFPD came in and tore
down all our yarn and stole all our couches and knocked
our tripod down before it went up.
Now BPD crushes couches, smashes sound systems, steals bicycles, and pulls dirty tricks like an undercover
Black Bloc[k] frame-up.
Well now the FBI had a term for "The Berkeley Problem"...
love and peace and sorry about the spelling diatribe.
-La
black bloc
by veganwar ? Wednesday May 01, 2002 at 01:43 PM
we dont' make ourselves look very smart when we are putting out press releases that say "balck block," as in a block of something that is black. drop the k and you get a "bloc," as in a group of people, a group of states, communities, etc.
maybe those who are soo ready to be on the frontlines for a few years before they sell out their beliefs should stay in school a little longer and learn to speak and write english first.
Two things.
To the "veganwar" (uh...ethical contradiction!?) spelling teacher, thank you thank you thank you for pointing out that evidently the historical and/or correct cool euro way
to spell "Black Block" is "Black Bloc", although you misspelled "black" as "balck". However, you are incorrect
in asserting that I "stay in school a little longer and learn to speak and write english first.". Not only is that
rilly rilly ethnocentric english uber alles but the term,
"bloc" by my big ol' Webster's English Dictionary is from the French and literally means, "Block".
Not to mention that the entire term was put in quotes which
would tend to indicate that it is someone else's words, or
somehow to be viewed skeptically. As in Black Block Heads, the police saboteur. But no I didn't consciously
make that subtle pun -- maybe it was unconscious.
Lemme also assert that school is not necessarily the best place to
learn about spelling. And spelling itself is constrictive and discriminatory. Many people, particularly in this techno-drugged test tube cathode ray tube latch-key baybee society,
have learning disabilities. On top o'that people have spelling checkings.
But if I hadn't been so poor putting myself through school I
mighta had the money to buyt the latest word processor and
maybe it knows how to spell Black Bloc, cuz back in 1995 or so only really hip anarchists knew about the
Black Bloc which was mostly strong in Europe. And generally
did weird things like walk in a block. (In France, "bloc"), which is kinda sorta
differente (that's Spanish) como la lucha en Seattle.
(Different from the Battle of Seattle).
Okaye the second and actually more important thing than
ranting about semantics and cultural imperialism and
ad hominem attacks based on wild assumptions which
undermine the credibility and efficaciousedeneeeserrrr
of our glorious Indymedia....
About Masks.
Last year at the rather impressive Reclaim the Streets
(http://xinet.com/rts/) Mayday party, one of the videographers
who captured the saboteur last night (at the May Eve RTS
demo, a limited collection of still images from one of which are above) there was a rather contrasting event.
A young man with a mask was running along "vandalizing" stuff with spray paint as I recall.
Police surrounded him, yanked down his li'l boy mask
(kinda like yanking down your pants, no?) and told him
not to do it again. And let him go.
It's weird folks, how the SFPD and BPD flip flop. It's like
transbay departmental good-cop v. bad-cop.
Useda be BPD let RTS go free and SFPD came in and tore
down all our yarn and stole all our couches and knocked
our tripod down before it went up.
Now BPD crushes couches, smashes sound systems, steals bicycles, and pulls dirty tricks like an undercover
Black Bloc[k] frame-up.
Well now the FBI had a term for "The Berkeley Problem"...
love and peace and sorry about the spelling diatribe.
-La
black bloc
by veganwar ? Wednesday May 01, 2002 at 01:43 PM
we dont' make ourselves look very smart when we are putting out press releases that say "balck block," as in a block of something that is black. drop the k and you get a "bloc," as in a group of people, a group of states, communities, etc.
maybe those who are soo ready to be on the frontlines for a few years before they sell out their beliefs should stay in school a little longer and learn to speak and write english first.
For more information:
http://xinet.com/rts/
Gee, you guys sure are touchy. Perhaps you should try decaf. You know now-a-days they make decaf that taste just like the real thing.
I love how on IndyMedia when you take the obvious opposing argument on a topic, you get accused of being CIA, FBI, or in this case, a cop. Well, for all of you geniuses out there that think I'm a cop, your wrong. Just goes to show the sort of paranoid delusional thought structures we're dealing with here. Typical IndyMedia propaganda. Just for the record, I'm a 32 year old systems engineer that lives on the East coast. Nobody, really.
So no, I was nowhere near the Berkeley protest. And I don't really know what happened. Frankly, I don't care. If the dude got arrested, odds are he was doing something wrong. Either in the wrong place at the wrong time, harassing the cops, or something illegal. Cops don't usually go around randomly targeting people or protestors for unsolicited arrests. Not usually. But, hey, if that's what happened then my appologies. You guys have the video. I know the number to a few good attorneys out in Cali. Maybe you can get on Judge Judy.
"Don't get mad. Don't take the law into your own hands. Take 'em to court." - Doug Llewelyn from the People's Court
I love how on IndyMedia when you take the obvious opposing argument on a topic, you get accused of being CIA, FBI, or in this case, a cop. Well, for all of you geniuses out there that think I'm a cop, your wrong. Just goes to show the sort of paranoid delusional thought structures we're dealing with here. Typical IndyMedia propaganda. Just for the record, I'm a 32 year old systems engineer that lives on the East coast. Nobody, really.
So no, I was nowhere near the Berkeley protest. And I don't really know what happened. Frankly, I don't care. If the dude got arrested, odds are he was doing something wrong. Either in the wrong place at the wrong time, harassing the cops, or something illegal. Cops don't usually go around randomly targeting people or protestors for unsolicited arrests. Not usually. But, hey, if that's what happened then my appologies. You guys have the video. I know the number to a few good attorneys out in Cali. Maybe you can get on Judge Judy.
"Don't get mad. Don't take the law into your own hands. Take 'em to court." - Doug Llewelyn from the People's Court
What I am wondering is why didn't the Berkeley police pretend to arrest their pretend black blocquer so as not to blow the cover. There is definitely enough evidence with the video that was recorded to demonstrate abundant fishy things going on. They were shown signaling to this man, and then he responded by throwing the first arrestee into the line, and then they allowed him to sit right behind them during the arrest and then arrested someone trying to photograph the man, and then waved him away from the location, but why didn't they realize that our whole crowd would be filming this and watching this set of events, and perhaps could use all of this evidence against them at a Police Review Commission hearing etc. They could have solved that by arresting the 'provocateur' guy and then he would have seemed like a man with a behavior disorder from our perspective.
Here is why the Daily Cal isn't going to cover the event. the
Express keep sticking in things about how the UCB is turning more moderate
and antiactivist compared to the good old days:
(
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2002-03-27/cityside2.html/1/index.html
Somehow I don't believe this person's story that she met an anti-WTO
protester who didn't know what WTO means. Either she made it up or is
describing a story where her tone made the other person not want to speak.
I sort of admire her use of punctuation too; she uses nearly as many ""
marks as I do, which permits a wonderful sarcastic tone without using so
many words
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8570
here is another 'activists suck by definition' article
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8523&ref=search
oh, and yet another Daily cal columnist from the same mold. Hmm, I wonder
who chose all these people as writers. Could it be the editor who appeared
on fox news regarding the sex scandal he uncovered where some students
met each other in a class and then had sex outside of class?
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8475&ref=search
oops, here's another one, same month there is a theme developing here
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8251&ref=search
from a month earlier (maybe this last guy hasn't developed opinions on
anything else because he hates strong convictions so much)
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8008&ref=search
and
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=7587&ref=search
Daily Cal
editorials.
the SJP should rot. they take free speech too far
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8512&ref=search
Yay for Ward Connerly!
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8454&ref=search
'traffic congestion (or 'conjestion' as they phonetically spell it) in
berkeley is caused by obstructions which restrict flow, such as
pedestrians and flower pots and those bands of cyclists. clear it all
away'
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=7763&ref=search
bad human sexuality class
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=7730&ref=search
Here is why the Daily Cal isn't going to cover the event. the
Express keep sticking in things about how the UCB is turning more moderate
and antiactivist compared to the good old days:
(
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2002-03-27/cityside2.html/1/index.html
Somehow I don't believe this person's story that she met an anti-WTO
protester who didn't know what WTO means. Either she made it up or is
describing a story where her tone made the other person not want to speak.
I sort of admire her use of punctuation too; she uses nearly as many ""
marks as I do, which permits a wonderful sarcastic tone without using so
many words
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8570
here is another 'activists suck by definition' article
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8523&ref=search
oh, and yet another Daily cal columnist from the same mold. Hmm, I wonder
who chose all these people as writers. Could it be the editor who appeared
on fox news regarding the sex scandal he uncovered where some students
met each other in a class and then had sex outside of class?
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8475&ref=search
oops, here's another one, same month there is a theme developing here
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8251&ref=search
from a month earlier (maybe this last guy hasn't developed opinions on
anything else because he hates strong convictions so much)
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8008&ref=search
and
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=7587&ref=search
Daily Cal
editorials.
the SJP should rot. they take free speech too far
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8512&ref=search
Yay for Ward Connerly!
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=8454&ref=search
'traffic congestion (or 'conjestion' as they phonetically spell it) in
berkeley is caused by obstructions which restrict flow, such as
pedestrians and flower pots and those bands of cyclists. clear it all
away'
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=7763&ref=search
bad human sexuality class
http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=7730&ref=search
And we should believe you, why?
Most of you lame asses are inclined to believe an array of less convincing hooey with loads of conjecture, circumstantial evidence and hearsay. Based on that alone I should be credible. But I suppose it's more entertaining to believe I'm your enemy. Psychiatrists prescribe medicine for that problem, ya know?
Anyway, believe whatever the hell you want.
Anyway, believe whatever the hell you want.
Most of the rightwing people who post to our site are not cops but every bit as disruptive. There could be some COINTELPRO like activity on Indymedia but that would usually be internal attacks between leftist organizations/trends (and the undercover cop we should have facial pictures of soon will probably go out of his way to preserve his ability to be an undercover cop since exposing him threatens his job).
In any case, we KNOW that the guy in the picture at the top of this thread was an undercover cop from the statements of those arrested (he directed the first arrest over a radio). So the focus of responses and posts on this subject should aim at getting pictures of his face from still frames on videos and crowd shots in photos. His description is asian male, mid to late thirties, short (but not crew cut) hair, black sweatshirt (that picture above has a blue tint that makes it look more blue than it really was), solid dark green army pants with large pockets and a black bag that looked sortof like a laptop case. He was spotted around the time the maypole was coming down standing across from Cafe Roma on the corner away from the hill. When the crowd started moving he was on the left side of Ashby for a few blocks crossed to the other side when he saw someone trying to take pictures walked for a few blocks and then moved forward towards the front left side again. In the few minutes before the arrest he was on the front left side of the road before moving into the crowd to direct the first arrest. During the last few blocks, his head was faced downwards so he could talk into his shirt so a facial picture from that point may be hard (but still worth getting).
I’m sure he was in the crowd for most of the protest, so he could be in any crowd pictures from any part of the protest. Even if we don’t get facial pictures it would be good to see if we have pictures of him talking to any of the other people in the crowd (which wouldn’t mean that those people were undercover cops but at least if we talk to them they may know something about the guy from what he said).
The same man was also spotted at an SJP protest wearing completely different clothes. Unless you know exactly what the guy looks like it is probably not worth trying to guess from pictures from those protests but you could contact the people with the video or try to get in touch with photographers etc through the indymedia contact email so that others can identify if the pictures are of that man.
Aside from protecting ourselves from future attacks pictures of that man may be useful for legal reasons if for some crazy reason the Berkeley police try to press charges on those arrested.
--
Warning: if you see this man do not attempt to apprehend him and instead get pictures and contact your local activist community. He is wanted for kidnapping , should be considered dangerous and could be armed.
In any case, we KNOW that the guy in the picture at the top of this thread was an undercover cop from the statements of those arrested (he directed the first arrest over a radio). So the focus of responses and posts on this subject should aim at getting pictures of his face from still frames on videos and crowd shots in photos. His description is asian male, mid to late thirties, short (but not crew cut) hair, black sweatshirt (that picture above has a blue tint that makes it look more blue than it really was), solid dark green army pants with large pockets and a black bag that looked sortof like a laptop case. He was spotted around the time the maypole was coming down standing across from Cafe Roma on the corner away from the hill. When the crowd started moving he was on the left side of Ashby for a few blocks crossed to the other side when he saw someone trying to take pictures walked for a few blocks and then moved forward towards the front left side again. In the few minutes before the arrest he was on the front left side of the road before moving into the crowd to direct the first arrest. During the last few blocks, his head was faced downwards so he could talk into his shirt so a facial picture from that point may be hard (but still worth getting).
I’m sure he was in the crowd for most of the protest, so he could be in any crowd pictures from any part of the protest. Even if we don’t get facial pictures it would be good to see if we have pictures of him talking to any of the other people in the crowd (which wouldn’t mean that those people were undercover cops but at least if we talk to them they may know something about the guy from what he said).
The same man was also spotted at an SJP protest wearing completely different clothes. Unless you know exactly what the guy looks like it is probably not worth trying to guess from pictures from those protests but you could contact the people with the video or try to get in touch with photographers etc through the indymedia contact email so that others can identify if the pictures are of that man.
Aside from protecting ourselves from future attacks pictures of that man may be useful for legal reasons if for some crazy reason the Berkeley police try to press charges on those arrested.
--
Warning: if you see this man do not attempt to apprehend him and instead get pictures and contact your local activist community. He is wanted for kidnapping , should be considered dangerous and could be armed.
Eric--I do, by the way, think it's unlikely that you're a cop--the question of whether cops do this sort of thing on a regular basis is precisely what's at issue here. Most folks more or less assume that they don't. Most reader of Indymedia, I suppose, tend to assume they do.
I think those photos make a pretty tight case for this particular incident. Do you disagree? I do want to see the video, but I don't think I really need stronger evidence than those photos to buy this particular account.
Many protesters maintain that this sort of incident is a regular occurence. That's why the cameras are proliferating; precisely to catch illegal cop behavior like this. So when the cops respond by targeting people with cameras, that only lends credence to the idea that they habitually have something to hide--right?
I think those photos make a pretty tight case for this particular incident. Do you disagree? I do want to see the video, but I don't think I really need stronger evidence than those photos to buy this particular account.
Many protesters maintain that this sort of incident is a regular occurence. That's why the cameras are proliferating; precisely to catch illegal cop behavior like this. So when the cops respond by targeting people with cameras, that only lends credence to the idea that they habitually have something to hide--right?
For more information:
http://www.ambiguous.org/robin/commentary
"I think those photos make a pretty tight case for this particular incident. Do you disagree? "
Yes, I do. Could easily have been staged to gain self serving attention.
"That's why the cameras are proliferating; precisely to catch illegal cop behavior like this."
What's illegal about this? There's nothing illegal about an undercover cop, wearing a hood in a crowd of anarchists, and assisting in the aprehension of mischievous behavior.
I contend the cameras could be proliferating to catch a staged or forced arrest in an attempt to discredit the police or make them look bad.
Yes, there's a conspiracy afoot and it's the anarchist, liberal, anti-american, anti-government mongers at work.
If I'm wrong then have your day in court.
Yes, I do. Could easily have been staged to gain self serving attention.
"That's why the cameras are proliferating; precisely to catch illegal cop behavior like this."
What's illegal about this? There's nothing illegal about an undercover cop, wearing a hood in a crowd of anarchists, and assisting in the aprehension of mischievous behavior.
I contend the cameras could be proliferating to catch a staged or forced arrest in an attempt to discredit the police or make them look bad.
Yes, there's a conspiracy afoot and it's the anarchist, liberal, anti-american, anti-government mongers at work.
If I'm wrong then have your day in court.
Reclaim the street, you guys are a joke. what BS
The guy who got arrested and the guy who was filming
it were working together to sell this stuff on line.
The guy who got arrested and the guy who was filming
it were working together to sell this stuff on line.
but Eric,
that would make sense if we were all speculating about an event that all of us were 3rd person to, but a lot of us were there, so that line of comment that you're making doesn't make sense. You should always be critical of what you hear, but work with the material facts that are available. Why wasn't this person charged with whatever mischief that you imply that he was probably causing? It would certainly be in the best interest of the police to charge him with whatever possible, and then drop charges later.
The pictures clearly show this fake-black blauq person lifting and carrying this other person and throwing him into the police. You see nothing wrong with that, because of the principle that in order to be selected out of the crowd, he 'must have been doing something'?
that would make sense if we were all speculating about an event that all of us were 3rd person to, but a lot of us were there, so that line of comment that you're making doesn't make sense. You should always be critical of what you hear, but work with the material facts that are available. Why wasn't this person charged with whatever mischief that you imply that he was probably causing? It would certainly be in the best interest of the police to charge him with whatever possible, and then drop charges later.
The pictures clearly show this fake-black blauq person lifting and carrying this other person and throwing him into the police. You see nothing wrong with that, because of the principle that in order to be selected out of the crowd, he 'must have been doing something'?
"but a lot of us were there, so that line of comment that you're making doesn't make sense"
if you were there then you can testify as a witness in court.
"Why wasn't this person charged with whatever mischief that you imply that he was probably causing?"
You can't be arrested without being charged with something. What was he charged with? Do you even know?
"It would certainly be in the best interest of the police to charge him with whatever possible, and then drop charges later."
Are you saying he was released? Illegally detained? What explanation was he given for his "arrest"? None of your comments make any sense.
"The pictures clearly show this fake-black blauq person lifting and carrying this other person and throwing him into the police. "
Yes, I agree.
"You see nothing wrong with that, because of the principle that in order to be selected out of the crowd, he 'must have been doing something'?"
Exactly. Otherwise why wasn't the whole group arrested? Why didn't you guys march down to the police department with him? Why don't you know what he was charged with? Why don't you retain an attorney and threaten suit? Why didn't his fellow protestors bail him out?
You guys are full of it.
if you were there then you can testify as a witness in court.
"Why wasn't this person charged with whatever mischief that you imply that he was probably causing?"
You can't be arrested without being charged with something. What was he charged with? Do you even know?
"It would certainly be in the best interest of the police to charge him with whatever possible, and then drop charges later."
Are you saying he was released? Illegally detained? What explanation was he given for his "arrest"? None of your comments make any sense.
"The pictures clearly show this fake-black blauq person lifting and carrying this other person and throwing him into the police. "
Yes, I agree.
"You see nothing wrong with that, because of the principle that in order to be selected out of the crowd, he 'must have been doing something'?"
Exactly. Otherwise why wasn't the whole group arrested? Why didn't you guys march down to the police department with him? Why don't you know what he was charged with? Why don't you retain an attorney and threaten suit? Why didn't his fellow protestors bail him out?
You guys are full of it.
" If I'm wrong then have your day in court."
Eric, your knowledge of history is pretty lacking.
In fact, many activists have had their "day in court" and most of the time, the USA Political Police are exposed, but nothing happens.
See: repeated overturned frame-ups of political activists from the 60s. Many rotted in prison for decades until the "wheels of justice" let them go free for explicit police misconduct.
See: Judi Bari case
See: COINTELPRO
See: lawsuit over RNC protests in Philadelphia
Eric, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Obviously you are completely ignorant of lawsuits against the US Political Police. This would explain your countless other ignorant comments. Do your research before opening your mouth next time.
Eric, your knowledge of history is pretty lacking.
In fact, many activists have had their "day in court" and most of the time, the USA Political Police are exposed, but nothing happens.
See: repeated overturned frame-ups of political activists from the 60s. Many rotted in prison for decades until the "wheels of justice" let them go free for explicit police misconduct.
See: Judi Bari case
See: COINTELPRO
See: lawsuit over RNC protests in Philadelphia
Eric, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Obviously you are completely ignorant of lawsuits against the US Political Police. This would explain your countless other ignorant comments. Do your research before opening your mouth next time.
Yes, it really is spelled "black bloc."
Look, everybody, the police have a long history of infiltrating activist groups and events. It's not that hard for them to put on a disguise or dress the look. Back in the 1960s, undercover cops would don tie dies and long hair and infiltrate groups. Perhaps the mask that the black bloc wears aids the police in infiltrating, but this isn't the problem that people make it out to be.
The problem, in the black bloc and in groups and during demonstrations, is that people let their guard down. Or, they will allow themselves to be directed by anybody on the street who sounds authoritative. One of the reasons why anarchists started doing the black bloc was to put together a tight formation that was aware of what was going on in the streets. A black bloc is an organized formation of at least several hundred anarchists, activists, and anti-capitalists. It seems that a few people think that anybody dressed in black at a march or demonstration is a black blocer. That person may be dressed like an anarchist, but the black bloc is not a fashion statement.
I guess it's the responsibility of some of us more experienced activists to remind people what the black bloc was meant to do. As far as I'm concerned, there can't be a black bloc unless it was announced publicly beforehand and it includes at least several hundred people in the bloc.
A black bloc of a dozen or 30 people is not only missing the point, it's tactically stupid.
Concerning the incident outlined in the pictures above: why didn't anybody follow that suspicious person to see where they went? If you are participating in an event and notice something like this, please take the initiative to be nosy about suspected undercovers. The police will continue to use them until we find an effective way to neutralize them.
Fuck the police!
Look, everybody, the police have a long history of infiltrating activist groups and events. It's not that hard for them to put on a disguise or dress the look. Back in the 1960s, undercover cops would don tie dies and long hair and infiltrate groups. Perhaps the mask that the black bloc wears aids the police in infiltrating, but this isn't the problem that people make it out to be.
The problem, in the black bloc and in groups and during demonstrations, is that people let their guard down. Or, they will allow themselves to be directed by anybody on the street who sounds authoritative. One of the reasons why anarchists started doing the black bloc was to put together a tight formation that was aware of what was going on in the streets. A black bloc is an organized formation of at least several hundred anarchists, activists, and anti-capitalists. It seems that a few people think that anybody dressed in black at a march or demonstration is a black blocer. That person may be dressed like an anarchist, but the black bloc is not a fashion statement.
I guess it's the responsibility of some of us more experienced activists to remind people what the black bloc was meant to do. As far as I'm concerned, there can't be a black bloc unless it was announced publicly beforehand and it includes at least several hundred people in the bloc.
A black bloc of a dozen or 30 people is not only missing the point, it's tactically stupid.
Concerning the incident outlined in the pictures above: why didn't anybody follow that suspicious person to see where they went? If you are participating in an event and notice something like this, please take the initiative to be nosy about suspected undercovers. The police will continue to use them until we find an effective way to neutralize them.
Fuck the police!
For more information:
http://www.infoshop.org/blackbloc.html
the undercover cop was the only one allowed to pass through the cop line... that to me is the primary way we can be sure he was indeed a cop
"In fact, many activists have had their "day in court" and most of the time, the USA Political Police are exposed, but nothing happens."
Whaaaah freakin whaaah! Is that a harp I hear playing in the background as I read this crybaby's post? My heart bleeds for all the mistreated liberal activists of the world. Let us all have a moment of silence and shed a tear.
If you know you're going to get shafted then why do you persist? And if you're going to persist then why whine about it? It's like "sniff, sniff, sniff we always get mistreated! The system is unfair! Sniff sniff, it's a big conspiracy against us! Those scumbag cops!"
Those cops are out there doing a job that most of you don't have the balls to do.
Whaaaah freakin whaaah! Is that a harp I hear playing in the background as I read this crybaby's post? My heart bleeds for all the mistreated liberal activists of the world. Let us all have a moment of silence and shed a tear.
If you know you're going to get shafted then why do you persist? And if you're going to persist then why whine about it? It's like "sniff, sniff, sniff we always get mistreated! The system is unfair! Sniff sniff, it's a big conspiracy against us! Those scumbag cops!"
Those cops are out there doing a job that most of you don't have the balls to do.
Chuck, interesting stuff. Couple of points: as for nobody following the guy, I wasn't there (wrong coast) but I presume that's because he calmly walked to the other side of a line nobody else could safely cross. As I'm understanding this. (Which is, Eric, the part that activists would have had trouble staging, in case you honestly missed that.)
Masking: the problem is not that it makes it any easier to infiltrate, just that the particular guy who infiltrated, even though he's on film all over the place, can't really be identified. If masks weren't in practice by any protesters, this guy wouldn't have worn one if he wanted to look inconspicuous. And if he hadn't had a mask, we'd be a long way toward identifying a police officer conducting a bad-faith arrest, and an entrapment (if I'm right in supposing that making contact with a police officer was the proximal excuse for arresting that cameraman). Which could indeed be very strong evidence in that courtroom.
Chuck, I'm going to read your referenced page when I get done with this; maybe it will give me some history of the black bloc (I am very new to protests in general). I do think it's worth acknowledging that "the black bloc" has become a nickname for a sort of philosophical demographic among activists, not just a body of people assembled in one spot during a protest. I have mixed feelings about what that black bloc, in your usage, is for; I haven't been at a demonstration involving any real civil disobedience, though, so there my inexperience may be against me. Just in theory, though, I think trying to get any government policies to change by picking fights with cops is a losing proposition. Nonviolence works better.
Eric--if you're really just an interested citizen, then chill with the fighting words and let's talk. If you just want to start a flame war, take it somewhere else. Nobody's objecting to the fact that the USA has a police force, and nobody's impugning the courage of police in general. But there is a history of unethical police approaches to political protests, and that history includes imprisonment, as was named above; it includes Kent State too. A reasonable person won't call a simple list of wrongful incarcerations the language of a crybaby, for God's sake. It's just relevant history.
Law enforcement should not be used as a pawn in politics. If it's to function properly, it needs to be above politics--and it needs not to be above the law.
Masking: the problem is not that it makes it any easier to infiltrate, just that the particular guy who infiltrated, even though he's on film all over the place, can't really be identified. If masks weren't in practice by any protesters, this guy wouldn't have worn one if he wanted to look inconspicuous. And if he hadn't had a mask, we'd be a long way toward identifying a police officer conducting a bad-faith arrest, and an entrapment (if I'm right in supposing that making contact with a police officer was the proximal excuse for arresting that cameraman). Which could indeed be very strong evidence in that courtroom.
Chuck, I'm going to read your referenced page when I get done with this; maybe it will give me some history of the black bloc (I am very new to protests in general). I do think it's worth acknowledging that "the black bloc" has become a nickname for a sort of philosophical demographic among activists, not just a body of people assembled in one spot during a protest. I have mixed feelings about what that black bloc, in your usage, is for; I haven't been at a demonstration involving any real civil disobedience, though, so there my inexperience may be against me. Just in theory, though, I think trying to get any government policies to change by picking fights with cops is a losing proposition. Nonviolence works better.
Eric--if you're really just an interested citizen, then chill with the fighting words and let's talk. If you just want to start a flame war, take it somewhere else. Nobody's objecting to the fact that the USA has a police force, and nobody's impugning the courage of police in general. But there is a history of unethical police approaches to political protests, and that history includes imprisonment, as was named above; it includes Kent State too. A reasonable person won't call a simple list of wrongful incarcerations the language of a crybaby, for God's sake. It's just relevant history.
Law enforcement should not be used as a pawn in politics. If it's to function properly, it needs to be above politics--and it needs not to be above the law.
For more information:
http://www.ambiguous.org/robin/commentary
STOP CALLING THE VICTIMS WHINERS. OKAY, HAVE IT YOUR WAY.
ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO DIED IN THE WTC ATTAC,
WHAHHHHHH, FUCKING WAHHHHH!!!!
ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO LOST FAMILY AND FRIENDS DURRING THE ATTACKS.,
WHAAAAHHH FUCKING WAHHHHH!!!!
NOT COOL?
WELL, YOUR SHIT IS AS INSENSITIVE!!!
THOSE PIGS SHOULD HAVE DIED IN THE WTC LIKE THEY SO RIGHTLY DESERVED!!!
SO STOP CALLING VICTIMS WHINERS.
BETTER YET, STOP WHINNING ABOUT WHINNING YOU WANKER!!!
GO FUCK A DUCK, DICK!!!!
ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO DIED IN THE WTC ATTAC,
WHAHHHHHH, FUCKING WAHHHHH!!!!
ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO LOST FAMILY AND FRIENDS DURRING THE ATTACKS.,
WHAAAAHHH FUCKING WAHHHHH!!!!
NOT COOL?
WELL, YOUR SHIT IS AS INSENSITIVE!!!
THOSE PIGS SHOULD HAVE DIED IN THE WTC LIKE THEY SO RIGHTLY DESERVED!!!
SO STOP CALLING VICTIMS WHINERS.
BETTER YET, STOP WHINNING ABOUT WHINNING YOU WANKER!!!
GO FUCK A DUCK, DICK!!!!
when the cops don't have a reason to make an arrest, they will simply create one. this situation is so typical and pathetic. kiss ass pigs!
"(Which is, Eric, the part that activists would have had trouble staging, in case you honestly missed that.)"
No, I didn't miss it. Obviously you didn't read or understand my post "Full of it" when I agreed that the guy was a cop. I'm sure he was.
What could have been easily staged by the activists is putting a camera on the "IndyMedia" reporter while he was in some way antagonizing or inciting the cops. You're bound to get arrested if you do that and any idiot knows it. You don't take a baseball bat to a beehive. So to say, "well, they had no reason to arrest him" is BS and any right thinking individual knows it. So anyone wanna state what the specific charges were against him? anyone? I didn't think so.
"if you're really just an interested citizen, then chill with the fighting words and let's talk."
I haven't attempted to pick a fight with anyone. I simply stated my opinions. Maybe brash, but I hate it when people try to mislead others for self serving interests. And I hate stupidity more than that. So those who fall in line with these self-servers fall into that category.
"Nobody's objecting to the fact that the USA has a police force, and nobody's impugning the courage of police in general."
Really? Perhaps you should go back an re-read (or read for the first time) all the negative anti-police comments made above, including "fuck the police". Let's see...you can start with Tom, followed by thanks, anon, @, oleurp08...,videographer, ebony, and of course Chuk0 just to name a few.
"But there is a history of unethical police approaches to political protests, and that history includes imprisonment, as was named above"
and there's a history of unethical protestors that routinely incite mob violence and get out of hand. Tell me I'm wrong.
"A reasonable person won't call a simple list of wrongful incarcerations the language of a crybaby, for God's sake."
Sounded like whining to me. Anyone who calls themself an anarchist and then says, "well we try to fight 'em in court but nothing ever happens" is a crybaby. If your gonna be an activist, harrass the cops, and impede the rights of others citizens, then don't be surprised when your ass winds up in jail.
And for the record, I have never had any adverse interaction with the police that I was undeserving of. I imagine that to be generally accurate for most people.
No, I didn't miss it. Obviously you didn't read or understand my post "Full of it" when I agreed that the guy was a cop. I'm sure he was.
What could have been easily staged by the activists is putting a camera on the "IndyMedia" reporter while he was in some way antagonizing or inciting the cops. You're bound to get arrested if you do that and any idiot knows it. You don't take a baseball bat to a beehive. So to say, "well, they had no reason to arrest him" is BS and any right thinking individual knows it. So anyone wanna state what the specific charges were against him? anyone? I didn't think so.
"if you're really just an interested citizen, then chill with the fighting words and let's talk."
I haven't attempted to pick a fight with anyone. I simply stated my opinions. Maybe brash, but I hate it when people try to mislead others for self serving interests. And I hate stupidity more than that. So those who fall in line with these self-servers fall into that category.
"Nobody's objecting to the fact that the USA has a police force, and nobody's impugning the courage of police in general."
Really? Perhaps you should go back an re-read (or read for the first time) all the negative anti-police comments made above, including "fuck the police". Let's see...you can start with Tom, followed by thanks, anon, @, oleurp08...,videographer, ebony, and of course Chuk0 just to name a few.
"But there is a history of unethical police approaches to political protests, and that history includes imprisonment, as was named above"
and there's a history of unethical protestors that routinely incite mob violence and get out of hand. Tell me I'm wrong.
"A reasonable person won't call a simple list of wrongful incarcerations the language of a crybaby, for God's sake."
Sounded like whining to me. Anyone who calls themself an anarchist and then says, "well we try to fight 'em in court but nothing ever happens" is a crybaby. If your gonna be an activist, harrass the cops, and impede the rights of others citizens, then don't be surprised when your ass winds up in jail.
And for the record, I have never had any adverse interaction with the police that I was undeserving of. I imagine that to be generally accurate for most people.
oh it looks as though I've made the children angry! oh heavens no! not a tantrum! here now...here's a nice lollipop for you. now, quiet down. There there. all better.
take that lollipop, and shove it up your ass.
that's the most sexual pleasure you will ever get in your life.
that's the most sexual pleasure you will ever get in your life.
Geeze, name-calling won't get us anywhere.
While I don't agree with his point of view, I do think that Eric brings up a couple of valid points.
Does anyone know the following basic facts of the case:
1. What is the reporter name who was arrested via the undercover cop's 'help'. Does anyone know who he is? What is is take on this? Are there any links to this information.
2. What was he charged with? Were the only charges stemming from him 'running into' the police line?
Until we know these two things (especially #2), the arguing seems pretty useless.
Any info would be appreciated.
While I don't agree with his point of view, I do think that Eric brings up a couple of valid points.
Does anyone know the following basic facts of the case:
1. What is the reporter name who was arrested via the undercover cop's 'help'. Does anyone know who he is? What is is take on this? Are there any links to this information.
2. What was he charged with? Were the only charges stemming from him 'running into' the police line?
Until we know these two things (especially #2), the arguing seems pretty useless.
Any info would be appreciated.
Even if the video were downloaded, and it clearly showed the porkers causing the problems, what's the point?
people will still side with the cops regardless of the facts, regardless of the evidence!
I mean, If I said the sky is blue, someone might say, "No, the sky is orange." then present falsified evidence to prove their case. Then everyone who should know better will believe the sky is orange, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
then what?
people will still side with the cops regardless of the facts, regardless of the evidence!
I mean, If I said the sky is blue, someone might say, "No, the sky is orange." then present falsified evidence to prove their case. Then everyone who should know better will believe the sky is orange, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
then what?
"and there's a history of unethical protestors that routinely incite mob violence and get out of hand. Tell me I'm wrong."
Again, Eric.
Can you tell me what "unethical" thing Geronimo Platt did that got him decades in prison on false charges? Is it unethical to try and organize your community in a way that is not capitalist?
In fact, Eric, there is a long history (which continues to this day) of violent U.S. repression with the violent U.S. military and violent U.S. police of legitimate assembly and legitimate political activity. Period. You can moan all day about what you have traditionally thought the police are like, but you can't disagree with historical fact.
I would also refer you to the on-going Judi Bari trial.
I would also refer you to the on-going Oakland Riders trial.
I would also refer you to the recent Ramparts trials.
et cetera et fucking cetera
sorry eric, like i said, do your fucking research and then talk about it
Again, Eric.
Can you tell me what "unethical" thing Geronimo Platt did that got him decades in prison on false charges? Is it unethical to try and organize your community in a way that is not capitalist?
In fact, Eric, there is a long history (which continues to this day) of violent U.S. repression with the violent U.S. military and violent U.S. police of legitimate assembly and legitimate political activity. Period. You can moan all day about what you have traditionally thought the police are like, but you can't disagree with historical fact.
I would also refer you to the on-going Judi Bari trial.
I would also refer you to the on-going Oakland Riders trial.
I would also refer you to the recent Ramparts trials.
et cetera et fucking cetera
sorry eric, like i said, do your fucking research and then talk about it
"I mean, If I said the sky is blue, someone might say, "No, the sky is orange." "
I say the sky is blue and by God it's blue! It's not orange no matter what the rest of the world thinks. They should all know better. I'm right and the 6 billion other people in this world are idiots. Blue, blue, blue, blue, blue. Now I'm going to hold my breathe until I turn orange...er...I mean blue. I'm gonna write it on my posterboard and march down the street. I'll block traffic and harass the cops and the neighborhood until they all see the light. The blue light. I'll make a general nuisance of myself until they all admit that that freakin' sky is blue. F*ck all those pigs. They are just enforcers for the big conspiracy that is the non-recognition of the blue sky. When they haul my ass to jail I hope they don't turn on those orange....er...I mean blue lights and draw attention to my dumb ass sittin' in the backseat.
I say the sky is blue and by God it's blue! It's not orange no matter what the rest of the world thinks. They should all know better. I'm right and the 6 billion other people in this world are idiots. Blue, blue, blue, blue, blue. Now I'm going to hold my breathe until I turn orange...er...I mean blue. I'm gonna write it on my posterboard and march down the street. I'll block traffic and harass the cops and the neighborhood until they all see the light. The blue light. I'll make a general nuisance of myself until they all admit that that freakin' sky is blue. F*ck all those pigs. They are just enforcers for the big conspiracy that is the non-recognition of the blue sky. When they haul my ass to jail I hope they don't turn on those orange....er...I mean blue lights and draw attention to my dumb ass sittin' in the backseat.
I think the point of that post is that when you have evidence to prove one thing, there will be some asshole who will twist things around, so you are convinced that what you are seing isn't what it really is.
Eric, pack your bags, and get the hell out of America.
I sugest that if the cops are always right, and the citizens are wrong, I suggest you go and join the Peruvian police force.
We don't need your kind here!
I sugest that if the cops are always right, and the citizens are wrong, I suggest you go and join the Peruvian police force.
We don't need your kind here!
Golly gee whiz Beave, I hadn't figured out what the point of that post was. But now it's much more clear.
And what was the point of my post, genius??
And what was the point of my post, genius??
"Eric, pack your bags, and get the hell out of America."
Oh, now I'm gettin' thrown out of my own country! I feel like a palestinian.
Wanna come make me leave? Hahahahahahaha! Come try! Then the cops'll be haulin' your ass to the joint next! Hahahahahaha. See, they're on my side.
No, I think I'll stay a bit.
The predominance of idiocy on IndyMedia never ceases to amaze and amuse me.
Oh, now I'm gettin' thrown out of my own country! I feel like a palestinian.
Wanna come make me leave? Hahahahahahaha! Come try! Then the cops'll be haulin' your ass to the joint next! Hahahahahaha. See, they're on my side.
No, I think I'll stay a bit.
The predominance of idiocy on IndyMedia never ceases to amaze and amuse me.
I think it's time to remove this topic from the site.
Unfortunately, too many assholes can't be intellegent enough not to be insensitive or to pull thier heads out of their asses.
What's the fucking email address for this sit's webmaster anyway?
Unfortunately, too many assholes can't be intellegent enough not to be insensitive or to pull thier heads out of their asses.
What's the fucking email address for this sit's webmaster anyway?
the funny part is that eric is too chicken-shit to ever go to a protest and see what happens, you think when one of those riot stormtroopers runs at eric he wont be shitting his pants twice??
no one needs to listen to eric, sounds like he is one of those pudgy-rush-limbaugh-waistline-to-be fucks who support war but would be too scared to ever come close to actually fighting for anything
eric, go back to the michael savage bulletin board, we're bored with you
no one needs to listen to eric, sounds like he is one of those pudgy-rush-limbaugh-waistline-to-be fucks who support war but would be too scared to ever come close to actually fighting for anything
eric, go back to the michael savage bulletin board, we're bored with you
If you don't like the "predominance idocy" as you call it, on indymedia, then what the fuck are you doing on this site. I have had it with the likes of you trying to disrupt the dissemination of information, causing rifts amoung intelegent people posting on this site, and who take the problems of what's goin on around us seriously! I have had it with people like you who blame the victims of injustice, who support opression, and who don't take anything seriously.
Why don't you just get the fuck off this site, and go somewhere else where likeminded people like you can leave us alone!!!
How about going to Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'rielly's site instead?
Just stay the hell of of here before I have a hacker friend of mine hunt you down and put a virus in your hardrive!!!
Why don't you just get the fuck off this site, and go somewhere else where likeminded people like you can leave us alone!!!
How about going to Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'rielly's site instead?
Just stay the hell of of here before I have a hacker friend of mine hunt you down and put a virus in your hardrive!!!
Ok anarchist, you begged for my attention so here's what I have to say:
On Geronimo Pratt - Johnny Cochran could have gotten Hitler himself out of jail. He loves that race card.
On the Oakland Riders and the Rampart trials - corrupt cops get what they deserve. Like I said before..."Don't get mad, don't take the law into your own hands, take 'em to court."
On Judi Bari - the stupid will be punished. Tree huggers make me laugh. We'll see how the trial pans out.
As far as me be too chicken-shit to go to a protest - I pick my battles a little more carefully than most of you idiots.
As far as me fighting for something - I already have. I served in Desert Storm. A bit different than carrying poster boards down the street, but we all have our calling in life.
and to the other numbskull:
"then what the fuck are you doing on this site"?
like I said. I'm amused by the idiocy. It entertains me.
"disrupt the dissemination of information, causing rifts amoung intelegent people"
The irony in this statemement can be seen in the way this person spells intelligent. I rest my case.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
On Geronimo Pratt - Johnny Cochran could have gotten Hitler himself out of jail. He loves that race card.
On the Oakland Riders and the Rampart trials - corrupt cops get what they deserve. Like I said before..."Don't get mad, don't take the law into your own hands, take 'em to court."
On Judi Bari - the stupid will be punished. Tree huggers make me laugh. We'll see how the trial pans out.
As far as me be too chicken-shit to go to a protest - I pick my battles a little more carefully than most of you idiots.
As far as me fighting for something - I already have. I served in Desert Storm. A bit different than carrying poster boards down the street, but we all have our calling in life.
and to the other numbskull:
"then what the fuck are you doing on this site"?
like I said. I'm amused by the idiocy. It entertains me.
"disrupt the dissemination of information, causing rifts amoung intelegent people"
The irony in this statemement can be seen in the way this person spells intelligent. I rest my case.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
I'm always amazed at how the people who stand for open ideas and diversity are the first ones (and by far the most sensitive ones) to stop debating and resort to name calling. While I'm no right winger (or left winger for that matter) I would like to point out that you just threatened someone for speaking their mind. You offe no argument, no logic. and certainly no thought. Yo sound like one of thugs you claim to be against. Try thinking a little.
I can't believe how divided everyone is on this site.
no wonder the powers that be will always win.
because all the serious people here can't agree on shit.
This is why Eric, and people like him will continue to bombard us with their Point of view, and will never be reached.
There is no way to stop police brutality.
there is no way to save the environment,
there is no way to end this war,
there is no way to achieve justice.
It's all hopeless.
Humanity will never change. We might as well just sit on our asses, watch Real world, drink beer, and just accept things for the way they are.
We can't change shit.
no wonder the powers that be will always win.
because all the serious people here can't agree on shit.
This is why Eric, and people like him will continue to bombard us with their Point of view, and will never be reached.
There is no way to stop police brutality.
there is no way to save the environment,
there is no way to end this war,
there is no way to achieve justice.
It's all hopeless.
Humanity will never change. We might as well just sit on our asses, watch Real world, drink beer, and just accept things for the way they are.
We can't change shit.
>> Just stay the hell of of here before I have a hacker friend of mine hunt you down and put a virus in your hardrive!!!
What a loser. Can't stand an opossing view, and making empty and unrealistic threats against others.
How about you let everyone post and then if you don't like something , debate it or just ignore it. Threatening to put non-existent viruses on by some non-existing friend just makes you sound even more ridiculous.
What a loser. Can't stand an opossing view, and making empty and unrealistic threats against others.
How about you let everyone post and then if you don't like something , debate it or just ignore it. Threatening to put non-existent viruses on by some non-existing friend just makes you sound even more ridiculous.
>I have had it with the likes of you trying to disrupt the dissemination of information, causing rifts amoung intelegent people posting on this site, and who take the problems of what's goin on around us seriously!
Intelligent people don't allow others to "disrupt the dissemination of information" or to cause "rifts".
I have yet to read anyone say what this "reporter" was charged with. I might have missed it, I looked over everything a couple of times. What was the official charge?
Otherwise, Eric and everyone else is welcome to this site provided they conduct themselves appropriately. Eric is doing so. Just because he raises questions you can't or aren't comfortable answering is no reason to act prudish.
Eric's initial post stated that he thought the indymedia reporter and/or other protestors might have staged the whole event. His opinion. From there, others went on to say, in varying degrees, he was a cop and telling him to "don't be so quick to form an opinion for things (until) you have all of the info!!!!!!!", which was exactly what they were doing. From there, the personal attacks on Eric continued.
If you people can't handle Eric, just one person behind a keyboard, how do you plan on changing the world?
Intelligent people don't allow others to "disrupt the dissemination of information" or to cause "rifts".
I have yet to read anyone say what this "reporter" was charged with. I might have missed it, I looked over everything a couple of times. What was the official charge?
Otherwise, Eric and everyone else is welcome to this site provided they conduct themselves appropriately. Eric is doing so. Just because he raises questions you can't or aren't comfortable answering is no reason to act prudish.
Eric's initial post stated that he thought the indymedia reporter and/or other protestors might have staged the whole event. His opinion. From there, others went on to say, in varying degrees, he was a cop and telling him to "don't be so quick to form an opinion for things (until) you have all of the info!!!!!!!", which was exactly what they were doing. From there, the personal attacks on Eric continued.
If you people can't handle Eric, just one person behind a keyboard, how do you plan on changing the world?
Thank God there's some rational people that read this stuff. I was begining to lose faith in humanity!
If you guys wanna change the world, hey I'm all for that. More power to ya. But you're gonna have to learn to play by the unwritten rules of society and etiquette in order to persuade people like me, or to beat us at our own game. And if you don't wanna learn the rules or play the game, then I'll always win.
Anyway, I've had enough fun for today. You can all get back to your anti-police chat now.
Have a nice day!
If you guys wanna change the world, hey I'm all for that. More power to ya. But you're gonna have to learn to play by the unwritten rules of society and etiquette in order to persuade people like me, or to beat us at our own game. And if you don't wanna learn the rules or play the game, then I'll always win.
Anyway, I've had enough fun for today. You can all get back to your anti-police chat now.
Have a nice day!
I can handle eric's point of view when he acts intellegently.
what I can't handle is his childish actions.
His actions, name calling, and insensitivity is what bothers me.
not his pov.
Let him think whatever he wants, let him say whatever he wants. Just don't be beligerant about it.
I agree with the other poster, though,
it is hopeless.
what I can't handle is his childish actions.
His actions, name calling, and insensitivity is what bothers me.
not his pov.
Let him think whatever he wants, let him say whatever he wants. Just don't be beligerant about it.
I agree with the other poster, though,
it is hopeless.
I hope the cops come along and shut down all of indymedia and it's operations.
I hope martial law is declared and everyone lives in a facist state!
maybe then everyone will wake up.
I hope martial law is declared and everyone lives in a facist state!
maybe then everyone will wake up.
Off the subject of Eric for the moment, the question remains of what really happened. You must admit, there is a tendency of many who post on this site to automatically view anything that the police do as "brutality", which I must admit, I don't buy into. It seems that if there is any time the police are going to mind their P's & Q's, it would be during a protest march they know will involve people who view them as partakers of brutality and where cameras will be plentiful to record events. It also seems reasonable that given they know they are among people who view them in this manner, they would be on a hightened state of alert.
Back to Eric.
>What I can't handle is his childish actions. His actions, name calling, and insensitivity is what bothers me. not his pov. Let him think whatever he wants, let him say whatever he wants. Just don't be beligerant about it.
This is depending on what side of the fence you're on; the other side could be viewed the same. A fair reading of this whole conversation will reveal that.
Eric posts the way he wants to. I wouldn't ask him to change. I wouldn't ask others to change the way they express themselves. This is an open forum. It's up to you to overlook the things in a persons writing you don't like and pick out the things of substance they were conveying. If you don't like the way a person writes, then you demonstrate through your writing how it should be done.
>There is no way to stop police brutality.
there is no way to save the environment,
there is no way to end this war,
there is no way to achieve justice.
It's all hopeless.
>I agree with the other poster, though, it is hopeless.
Stop police brutality: In any occupation, there will be good and bad. It has yet to be proven what the police did to this "reporter" wasn't warranted. Environment: I think we're doing a damn good job myself. In fact, we're being a bit over protective. End the War: Wars begin, wars end. Always have, always will. Justice: The truth will always surface. It may take more time than you like, but when it does, good people will change if the truth demands it. Hopeless: Only if you are.
Now see, we may not agree, but we can act in a civil manner.
Back to Eric.
>What I can't handle is his childish actions. His actions, name calling, and insensitivity is what bothers me. not his pov. Let him think whatever he wants, let him say whatever he wants. Just don't be beligerant about it.
This is depending on what side of the fence you're on; the other side could be viewed the same. A fair reading of this whole conversation will reveal that.
Eric posts the way he wants to. I wouldn't ask him to change. I wouldn't ask others to change the way they express themselves. This is an open forum. It's up to you to overlook the things in a persons writing you don't like and pick out the things of substance they were conveying. If you don't like the way a person writes, then you demonstrate through your writing how it should be done.
>There is no way to stop police brutality.
there is no way to save the environment,
there is no way to end this war,
there is no way to achieve justice.
It's all hopeless.
>I agree with the other poster, though, it is hopeless.
Stop police brutality: In any occupation, there will be good and bad. It has yet to be proven what the police did to this "reporter" wasn't warranted. Environment: I think we're doing a damn good job myself. In fact, we're being a bit over protective. End the War: Wars begin, wars end. Always have, always will. Justice: The truth will always surface. It may take more time than you like, but when it does, good people will change if the truth demands it. Hopeless: Only if you are.
Now see, we may not agree, but we can act in a civil manner.
for all we know Eric is a cop simply doing his job
it was stated twice that the police refused to speak with people who went to the jail (and, in fact, the police had 40+ officers devote over half an hour blocking traffic on the main street through town, Shattuck, in order to block us from proceeding to this jail), but that when the people were released around 1-2am, the charges were just resisting arrest. The natural first thought might have been that the arrestees had been wanted for warrants, but they wouldn't have let them out w/o charge if that were the case.
My housemate frequently receives recruitment pitches from the police department because he's a security guard at the city building next door. He did this Berkeley Citizen's academy thing described here:
http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/police/department/communityservicesbureau/citizensacademy.html
and yesterday he was describing how they went through all sorts of details about undercover procedures that they do and various tactics. He went on ride alongs and described that. Also, here is a Berkeley police radio monitoring website that you can listen to with realaudio. remember that they take a lot of their communications off of radio to personal cell phone.
http://berkeleybarb.com/police.html
My housemate frequently receives recruitment pitches from the police department because he's a security guard at the city building next door. He did this Berkeley Citizen's academy thing described here:
http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/police/department/communityservicesbureau/citizensacademy.html
and yesterday he was describing how they went through all sorts of details about undercover procedures that they do and various tactics. He went on ride alongs and described that. Also, here is a Berkeley police radio monitoring website that you can listen to with realaudio. remember that they take a lot of their communications off of radio to personal cell phone.
http://berkeleybarb.com/police.html
If there was probable cause, the cops could just have grabbed the boy. He could have run away or been blocked off--so fine, use your guy on the inside to grab him and drag him within reach of the cops. If you actually have probable cause or a warrant or whatever, that's all fine by me.
But throwing him at the cops is silliness. And the undercover guy checking out to deflect attention afterward--that's the kind of thing that only serves to disguise the incident. If they had cause, there's no reason to trump up a fake assault-on-cops scenario.
This is not proof positive--I too would like to know what the official line is on this incident, though I imagine they never bothered charging him.
This is reason to check things out, though. Reason enough not to assume the cops are on the up and up. Eyewitnesses said the cameraman was just walking along in the middle of a march; I have no reason to assume that's a lie, and if it's true, it's hard to see what probable cause there would have been.
No proof either way, but plenty of reason to investigate.
Again, if the original posters are still reading this--when do we get the video? If there are multiple copies floating around, surely one of them can be taken to your neighborhood geek to be put online.
But throwing him at the cops is silliness. And the undercover guy checking out to deflect attention afterward--that's the kind of thing that only serves to disguise the incident. If they had cause, there's no reason to trump up a fake assault-on-cops scenario.
This is not proof positive--I too would like to know what the official line is on this incident, though I imagine they never bothered charging him.
This is reason to check things out, though. Reason enough not to assume the cops are on the up and up. Eyewitnesses said the cameraman was just walking along in the middle of a march; I have no reason to assume that's a lie, and if it's true, it's hard to see what probable cause there would have been.
No proof either way, but plenty of reason to investigate.
Again, if the original posters are still reading this--when do we get the video? If there are multiple copies floating around, surely one of them can be taken to your neighborhood geek to be put online.
For more information:
http://www.ambiguous.org/robin/commentary
"It's an <font color="FF8C00">orangy sky</font>
<br>
Always it's some other guy
<br>
It's just a broken lullaby..."
<br>
Always it's some other guy
<br>
It's just a broken lullaby..."
For more information:
http://www.pbase.com/image/1334971
(ooops...this time with html format selected)
"It's an orangy sky
Always it's some other guy
It's just a broken lullaby..."
For more information:
http://www.pbase.com/image/1334971
No, I think you are retarded.
No, u r we todd did.
What's more to be said. For those of you who listen (or now watch) Amy Goodman's Democracy Now (democracynow.org), this kind of behavior is not new. Great pics.
More cameras are needed for the peoples safety.
STOP DA WHINING AND START DA FIGHTING!!!
I'm afraid I have to agree with 400Mhz:
"If you know you're going to get shafted then why do you persist? And if you're going to persist then why whine about it? It's like "sniff, sniff, sniff we always get mistreated! The system is unfair! Sniff sniff, it's a big conspiracy against us! Those scumbag cops!"
Next time before a demo get a 9mm and listen to Ice T: COP KILLA!!!
Lets reminiscence (its been 10 years already?)
http://www.bodycount.com/new_home.html :
COP KILLER!
Yeah!
I got my black shirt on
I got my black gloves on
I got my ski mask on
This shit's been too long
I got my twelve gauge sawed off
I got my headlights turned off
I'm 'bout to bust some shots off
I'm 'bout to dust some cops off
I'm a...
COP KILLER, better you than me
COP KILLER, fuck police brutality!
COP KILLER, I know your family's grievin' ... FUCK 'EM!
COP KILLER, but tonight we get even
I got my brain on hype
Tonight'll be your night
I got this long-assed knife
and your neck looks just right
My adrenaline's pumpin'
I got my stereo bumpin'
I'm 'bout to kill me somethin'
A pig stopped me for nuthin'!
COP KILLER, it's better you than me
COP KILLER, fuck police brutality!
COP KILLER, I know your momma's grievin' ... FUCK 'ER!
COP KILLER, but tonight we get even
DIE, DIE, DIE, PIG, DIE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
COP KILLER, better you than me
COP KILLER, fuck police brutality!
COP KILLER, I know your family's grievin' ... FUCK 'EM!
COP KILLER, but tonight we get even
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE, for Daryl Gates
FUCK THE POLICE, for Rodney King
FUCK THE POLICE, for my dead homies
FUCK THE POLICE, for your freedom
FUCK THE POLICE, don't be a pussy
FUCK THE POLICE, have some mothafuckin' courage
FUCK THE POLICE, sing along!
COP KILLER!
I'm a muthafuckin' COP KILLER!
COP KILLER!
- Body Count (w/Ice-T) - "Cop Killer" - Cop Killer
This next record is dedicated to some personal friends of mine, the LAPD.
For every cop that has ever taken advantage of somebody, beat 'em down or
hurt 'em, because they got long hair, listen to the wrong kinda music,
wrong color, whatever they thought was the reason to do it. For every one
of those fuckin' police, I'd like to take a pig out here in this parkin'
lot and shoot 'em in their mothafuckin' face.
- Body Count (w/Ice-T) - "Out In The Parking Lot" - Cop Killer
I'm afraid I have to agree with 400Mhz:
"If you know you're going to get shafted then why do you persist? And if you're going to persist then why whine about it? It's like "sniff, sniff, sniff we always get mistreated! The system is unfair! Sniff sniff, it's a big conspiracy against us! Those scumbag cops!"
Next time before a demo get a 9mm and listen to Ice T: COP KILLA!!!
Lets reminiscence (its been 10 years already?)
http://www.bodycount.com/new_home.html :
COP KILLER!
Yeah!
I got my black shirt on
I got my black gloves on
I got my ski mask on
This shit's been too long
I got my twelve gauge sawed off
I got my headlights turned off
I'm 'bout to bust some shots off
I'm 'bout to dust some cops off
I'm a...
COP KILLER, better you than me
COP KILLER, fuck police brutality!
COP KILLER, I know your family's grievin' ... FUCK 'EM!
COP KILLER, but tonight we get even
I got my brain on hype
Tonight'll be your night
I got this long-assed knife
and your neck looks just right
My adrenaline's pumpin'
I got my stereo bumpin'
I'm 'bout to kill me somethin'
A pig stopped me for nuthin'!
COP KILLER, it's better you than me
COP KILLER, fuck police brutality!
COP KILLER, I know your momma's grievin' ... FUCK 'ER!
COP KILLER, but tonight we get even
DIE, DIE, DIE, PIG, DIE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE!
COP KILLER, better you than me
COP KILLER, fuck police brutality!
COP KILLER, I know your family's grievin' ... FUCK 'EM!
COP KILLER, but tonight we get even
FUCK THE POLICE!
FUCK THE POLICE, for Daryl Gates
FUCK THE POLICE, for Rodney King
FUCK THE POLICE, for my dead homies
FUCK THE POLICE, for your freedom
FUCK THE POLICE, don't be a pussy
FUCK THE POLICE, have some mothafuckin' courage
FUCK THE POLICE, sing along!
COP KILLER!
I'm a muthafuckin' COP KILLER!
COP KILLER!
- Body Count (w/Ice-T) - "Cop Killer" - Cop Killer
This next record is dedicated to some personal friends of mine, the LAPD.
For every cop that has ever taken advantage of somebody, beat 'em down or
hurt 'em, because they got long hair, listen to the wrong kinda music,
wrong color, whatever they thought was the reason to do it. For every one
of those fuckin' police, I'd like to take a pig out here in this parkin'
lot and shoot 'em in their mothafuckin' face.
- Body Count (w/Ice-T) - "Out In The Parking Lot" - Cop Killer
finally
FINALLY
FINALLY!!!!
The video has been posted, here:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/05/126202.php
For more information:
http://www.festivalsofresistance.net/
oops thought html mode would auto A=HREF this
li'l yURLer
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/05/126202.php
li'l yURLer
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/05/126202.php
Now that the whole video is online?
Was the so-called "IndyMedia" person really a violent thug who had been rampaging through the streets attacking innocent cops and bystanders who was so crafty he could only have been arrested by a witty short undercover cop who had to throw him into a line of his cop buddies?
And for those of us on the left and anarchists, Eric and those of his kind who have so much time on their hands that they pick fights on sites that they know they don't have any direct interest in, except to start conflicts, are a joke.
There are real people with power who are escpaing our attention while we engage in meaningless scuffles with conflict addicted messageboard junkies who have absolutely no power. Please stop engaging in arguments with these people.
If they ask for information, give it, but don't be fooled into thinking you're going to get anywhere with them by engaging in discussions and especially by engaging in the same behavior they use (namecalling, etc. no matter how they try to disguise it).
The more you engage with them, the more they are going to be drawn to come back.
I'm not arguing he or anyone else comes on to these threads purposely to pick fights or are aware that they are being jerks/"flamers," but the more they are engaged in conflict (even if it has gone long beyond what they originally posted), the more they are going to come back.
Was the so-called "IndyMedia" person really a violent thug who had been rampaging through the streets attacking innocent cops and bystanders who was so crafty he could only have been arrested by a witty short undercover cop who had to throw him into a line of his cop buddies?
And for those of us on the left and anarchists, Eric and those of his kind who have so much time on their hands that they pick fights on sites that they know they don't have any direct interest in, except to start conflicts, are a joke.
There are real people with power who are escpaing our attention while we engage in meaningless scuffles with conflict addicted messageboard junkies who have absolutely no power. Please stop engaging in arguments with these people.
If they ask for information, give it, but don't be fooled into thinking you're going to get anywhere with them by engaging in discussions and especially by engaging in the same behavior they use (namecalling, etc. no matter how they try to disguise it).
The more you engage with them, the more they are going to be drawn to come back.
I'm not arguing he or anyone else comes on to these threads purposely to pick fights or are aware that they are being jerks/"flamers," but the more they are engaged in conflict (even if it has gone long beyond what they originally posted), the more they are going to come back.
I left out some distinctions in my last post that made it sound like I was describing the same one group of people as having opposing characteristics.
"Eric" is engaging in fights with people and is using name calling, generalized statements, derogatory comments, etc whether he admits it or not. He may not have intended to do that with his first post or two, but that is how most of his posts have been on this thread.
There are people who do come onto sites with viewpoints that they disagree with who have no interest in discussing neutrally, but engaging their "opponents" in childish behavior in order to justify their beliefs that the view point those people have is wrong, uneducated, etc. while their own is right, educated, rational, etc. even if they themselves engage in the same childish behavior.
Other just disagree, post, and may or may not get involved with discussion board conflicts.
"Eric" is engaging in fights with people and is using name calling, generalized statements, derogatory comments, etc whether he admits it or not. He may not have intended to do that with his first post or two, but that is how most of his posts have been on this thread.
There are people who do come onto sites with viewpoints that they disagree with who have no interest in discussing neutrally, but engaging their "opponents" in childish behavior in order to justify their beliefs that the view point those people have is wrong, uneducated, etc. while their own is right, educated, rational, etc. even if they themselves engage in the same childish behavior.
Other just disagree, post, and may or may not get involved with discussion board conflicts.
While there may be "larger issues" we should be focusing on rather than arguing about this, trying to figure out what happened and find a few closeup facial pictures of the undercover isnt as worthless as it may seem and doesnt take much time.
Letting the police arrest a cameraman on bogus charges would risk the sucess of many other actions. If taking picture of police acting badly is going to be seen as interfering with police activity how can we cover police brutality issues? Even the Rodney King case wouldnt have made the news or lead to protests if it hadnt been for the video. There is probably no amount of legal pressure we can use to stop police from attacking the press when the police are acting REALLY badly but leaving the space for us to film shouldnt be dismissed as a nonissue
Also, this cop could be a regular undercover at other protests, parties, concerts etc... Exposing him and plastering pictures of him all over Berkley would at least be a nice gift from the activist community to the local kids who he harasses on a more daily basis.
Letting the police arrest a cameraman on bogus charges would risk the sucess of many other actions. If taking picture of police acting badly is going to be seen as interfering with police activity how can we cover police brutality issues? Even the Rodney King case wouldnt have made the news or lead to protests if it hadnt been for the video. There is probably no amount of legal pressure we can use to stop police from attacking the press when the police are acting REALLY badly but leaving the space for us to film shouldnt be dismissed as a nonissue
Also, this cop could be a regular undercover at other protests, parties, concerts etc... Exposing him and plastering pictures of him all over Berkley would at least be a nice gift from the activist community to the local kids who he harasses on a more daily basis.
Gee, I must have struck a chord or two with the anonymous poster above, don't you think? What do you suppose he is afraid of? The truth possibly? Perhaps the truth is contrary to his mission?
The lesson for all you boys and girls here is how to discover the truth. King Solomon was able to do it when the two women came to him claiming the same baby. He said "Chop it in two and give each of them half". The lier agreed with the decision and the mother was willing to give the child up to spare it's life.
The point here is that I don't know what really happened. I wasn't there, but I've viewed the pictures and the video. I personally don't think the video shows any more evidence than the pictures. I don't deny that the shover is a probably a cop. But what is not shown is what provoked the incident. And I'm willing to leave it at that. I simply assume you are intelligent enough to make your own decision.
Does anyone believe that the guy was randomly targeted out of this crowd for arrest? That he was an innocent bystander, blissfully walking along, amiably having a conversation when the cops suddenly said, "Hey, let's get that one", arrest him only to release him without charge a few hours later?
Some people would have you believe as much. But if someone so much as disagrees, then sound the trumpets, the attack is on! Usually when I say something I believe to be the truth and someone disagrees with me, I just ignore them. I don't keep bringing them to the surface by attacking them or their perspective, unless of course, I have to refute their credible arguments. That's the point here. That's why certain people feel so compelled to mention me.
See, I'm not trying to convince you that police are criminals and that criminals are innocent. I'm not trying to convince you to hate cops. I'm not trying to incite action against the peace keepers. I'm not screaming to chop the baby in two. I have no mission. I don't consider the police my enemy. Not all police officers are completely innocent. But even fewer detainees are as innocent as there are guilty officers.
The lesson for all you boys and girls here is how to discover the truth. King Solomon was able to do it when the two women came to him claiming the same baby. He said "Chop it in two and give each of them half". The lier agreed with the decision and the mother was willing to give the child up to spare it's life.
The point here is that I don't know what really happened. I wasn't there, but I've viewed the pictures and the video. I personally don't think the video shows any more evidence than the pictures. I don't deny that the shover is a probably a cop. But what is not shown is what provoked the incident. And I'm willing to leave it at that. I simply assume you are intelligent enough to make your own decision.
Does anyone believe that the guy was randomly targeted out of this crowd for arrest? That he was an innocent bystander, blissfully walking along, amiably having a conversation when the cops suddenly said, "Hey, let's get that one", arrest him only to release him without charge a few hours later?
Some people would have you believe as much. But if someone so much as disagrees, then sound the trumpets, the attack is on! Usually when I say something I believe to be the truth and someone disagrees with me, I just ignore them. I don't keep bringing them to the surface by attacking them or their perspective, unless of course, I have to refute their credible arguments. That's the point here. That's why certain people feel so compelled to mention me.
See, I'm not trying to convince you that police are criminals and that criminals are innocent. I'm not trying to convince you to hate cops. I'm not trying to incite action against the peace keepers. I'm not screaming to chop the baby in two. I have no mission. I don't consider the police my enemy. Not all police officers are completely innocent. But even fewer detainees are as innocent as there are guilty officers.
Eric: "Does anyone believe that the guy was randomly targeted out of this crowd for arrest?"
I don't.
It's possible though, as Robin pointed out, that he may have been targeted simply because he was reporting on the event, and carrying a camera and using it? If that's the case, then that's pretty fucked up.
BTW, I don't hate cops either. Many of them are pretty cool. A lot of 'em are assholes though (and that's an understatement, in some cases). 'specially rookies. I know I'm speaking in generalities, but, in my experience, older experienced cops, as opposed to rookies, tend not to take themselves so seriously, and aren't on as much of a power trip, aren't out to impress, and aren't as likely to abuse their station.
I don't.
It's possible though, as Robin pointed out, that he may have been targeted simply because he was reporting on the event, and carrying a camera and using it? If that's the case, then that's pretty fucked up.
BTW, I don't hate cops either. Many of them are pretty cool. A lot of 'em are assholes though (and that's an understatement, in some cases). 'specially rookies. I know I'm speaking in generalities, but, in my experience, older experienced cops, as opposed to rookies, tend not to take themselves so seriously, and aren't on as much of a power trip, aren't out to impress, and aren't as likely to abuse their station.
by purchasing their goods, by subscribing to their economy, by buying into their political system (theocracy thinly disguised as democrary, vapid socialism or inert communism) we give them their power, hand our power over to them. we need to stop doing this and create our own systems based on humanitarian and egalitarian principles.
let's do it,
karenza t. wall
let's do it,
karenza t. wall
Eric, I don't consider cops my enemies either; I have a lot of mixed feelings about them, between the long and varied history of police abuses and my enduring vision of what the police can be and should be, the honest and dedicated guardians I was taught they would be when I was a kid.
I wrote a bit about the "enmity" between police and protesters here: http://www.ambiguous.org/robin/commentary/cops.html
The nutshell is, I think the police have much more of a bedrock belief in that state of enmity than the activists do. And since protests are all about politics, that makes the police a political weapon. That's something they should never be.
About to check out the video, finally...
I wrote a bit about the "enmity" between police and protesters here: http://www.ambiguous.org/robin/commentary/cops.html
The nutshell is, I think the police have much more of a bedrock belief in that state of enmity than the activists do. And since protests are all about politics, that makes the police a political weapon. That's something they should never be.
About to check out the video, finally...
For more information:
http://www.ambiguous.org/robin/commentary
Wow! You people are really paranoid. I have never heard of any agency trying to start a confrontation with protestors. You all seem to do a great job of that yourselves. It has always been your tactics to ignite a violent confrontation with the police while you have "innocents" (ie. children/elderly) caught in the mix. I would love to see the "whole" video. I would bet any dollar that this "black block" sabateur is really from your side trying to initiate this confrontation. If you hate the US so much, and its politics, then leave! You can please all of the people all of the time, and our system is far from perfect, but it is the best game in town! IDIOTS!
any agency trying to start a confrontation with protestors, you haven't been paying enough attention.
YOU SAID: we dont' make ourselves look very smart when we are putting out press releases that say "balck block," as in a block of something that is black. drop the k and you get a "bloc," as in a group of people, a group of states, communities, etc.
maybe those who are soo ready to be on the frontlines for a few years before they sell out their beliefs should stay in school a little longer and learn to speak and write english first.
I SAY: Don't be such a petty, arrogant, fuck. Do you correct peoples grammar as well as spelling? As soon as you have all your patches lined up, you pronunciations down, and your dates memorized, you will be out of Anarchist Puberty. Please hold all future postings until then.
Huggs and Kisses.
Al
maybe those who are soo ready to be on the frontlines for a few years before they sell out their beliefs should stay in school a little longer and learn to speak and write english first.
I SAY: Don't be such a petty, arrogant, fuck. Do you correct peoples grammar as well as spelling? As soon as you have all your patches lined up, you pronunciations down, and your dates memorized, you will be out of Anarchist Puberty. Please hold all future postings until then.
Huggs and Kisses.
Al
Robin, I hear ya, but I can't side with ya. It sounds like you swing a bit towards the side of being an idealist; I'm a realist. Not a complacent realist, mind you. I never let my guard down. But being a realist just makes more logical sense to me. Being a realist means undestanding why things are the way they are and accepting them most of the time. It's the closest a human will ever come to being at peace.
So when you talk about your vision of the ideal police officer as honest and dedicated guardians, that's all well and good. But it's an idealist perspective. The truth is that it's a nasty world out there. Crack whores and drug pushers. Thieves and murders. And then you have the average person who thinks that even he is above the law on some occassions. Anything from running red lights and stop signs to driving 5mph over the speed limit to not wearing a seat belt. These cops deal with it every day. It's a nasty job in a nasty world and it would be hard to be situated in that environment without some of it rubbing off on you. That's the human factor. But somehow, most of them do. Most of them are honorable peace keepers. Most of them are out there protecting us from this scum sucking universe that we don't really want to know anything about. They're not just men doing a job. They're heros. And they're not getting wealthy doing it.
"I think the police have much more of a bedrock belief in that state of enmity than the activists do. "
Do you really believe that?? Why don't you re-read this thread and try to honestly say that again. These same activists on this web forum are the ones you are talking about. With their "fuck the cops" and "I hate the stinking pigs". Give me a break.
More times than not, when a group of activists get together, there's trouble. A building gets bombed. Streets get ransacked. Neighborhoods get trashed. People get hurt or even killed. For every group protesting, there is an antithesis group standing across the street. White Power vs. Black Pride. Free Palestine vs. Free Israel. Pro-abortion and anti-abortion. In this sick world no-one can agree on anything. And seldom is either side exclusively right. And in the middle, you have the cops. Trying to keep the innocent from getting slaughtered and the activists from going too far. And for the most part, they do a damn good job. Their's always going to be isolated incidents. That's the human factor. But for the most part, the job they do IS damn good.
So police a political weapon?? Only in the mind of the activist. Just like the schizophrenic hears voices. The activist needs to believe there are enemies to his cause. It feeds him the fuel he needs to burn that fire. And that's all well and good until you go to far. And that's when I hope that cop steps up and puts your ass on the ground, slaps on the cuffs, throws your protesting ass in the back of the paddy wagon, and takes you downtown until 2am when you get out. When all the trouble makers are gone home. When they're all sitting around patting themselves on the back and saying "Gee it really feels like we accomplished something today".
So when you talk about your vision of the ideal police officer as honest and dedicated guardians, that's all well and good. But it's an idealist perspective. The truth is that it's a nasty world out there. Crack whores and drug pushers. Thieves and murders. And then you have the average person who thinks that even he is above the law on some occassions. Anything from running red lights and stop signs to driving 5mph over the speed limit to not wearing a seat belt. These cops deal with it every day. It's a nasty job in a nasty world and it would be hard to be situated in that environment without some of it rubbing off on you. That's the human factor. But somehow, most of them do. Most of them are honorable peace keepers. Most of them are out there protecting us from this scum sucking universe that we don't really want to know anything about. They're not just men doing a job. They're heros. And they're not getting wealthy doing it.
"I think the police have much more of a bedrock belief in that state of enmity than the activists do. "
Do you really believe that?? Why don't you re-read this thread and try to honestly say that again. These same activists on this web forum are the ones you are talking about. With their "fuck the cops" and "I hate the stinking pigs". Give me a break.
More times than not, when a group of activists get together, there's trouble. A building gets bombed. Streets get ransacked. Neighborhoods get trashed. People get hurt or even killed. For every group protesting, there is an antithesis group standing across the street. White Power vs. Black Pride. Free Palestine vs. Free Israel. Pro-abortion and anti-abortion. In this sick world no-one can agree on anything. And seldom is either side exclusively right. And in the middle, you have the cops. Trying to keep the innocent from getting slaughtered and the activists from going too far. And for the most part, they do a damn good job. Their's always going to be isolated incidents. That's the human factor. But for the most part, the job they do IS damn good.
So police a political weapon?? Only in the mind of the activist. Just like the schizophrenic hears voices. The activist needs to believe there are enemies to his cause. It feeds him the fuel he needs to burn that fire. And that's all well and good until you go to far. And that's when I hope that cop steps up and puts your ass on the ground, slaps on the cuffs, throws your protesting ass in the back of the paddy wagon, and takes you downtown until 2am when you get out. When all the trouble makers are gone home. When they're all sitting around patting themselves on the back and saying "Gee it really feels like we accomplished something today".
COINTELPRO was an FBI tool aimed at neutralizing radical political dissidents (commonly called "trouble makers") thirty-plus years ago. It has nothing to do with the average sore-footed ground pounding officer at your local police department.
Yeah! and Colonel Sanders is still alive and putting addictive chemicals in his original recipe chicken in order to keep the black man down.
Who controls the British pound?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs cavefish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!
fuck the po-lice. i hate it when pigs pull that shit and get away. in phoenix the pigs pulled some bullshit too, but that seemed pretty shiesty, though not in a historical perspective. pigs have allways been doing this shit, especially in the bay area in times past. the pigs' power LIES in our own acceptance of their power. when we collectively tell them to fuck off, the pigs go runing scared. we threw horseshit at retreating po-po on mayday out here. i wish i could have seen the day when fred hampton, huey newton and friends walked into the capital and put the politicians in check. everyone should get involved with something that interests them, and start being the change you wish to see. soon the tide of revolution will turn.
Did anyone notice in the first picture, how there are two people in black hoods pushing the indymedia guy into the cop line? Then, in the second picture the second black hood dude is walking away from the scene like nothing happened?
Just an observation I thought I would share.
Just an observation I thought I would share.
For more information:
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