Heterodox Economics, Cultural Anthropology, and Radical Transformation with DJ Ferman-León

LUMPENPROLETARIAT—This evening, Saturday, 10 APR 2015, I had the pleasure and privilege of sitting down with my colleague and, now, graduate of UMKC’s heterodox school of economics, Mr. Daniel “D.J.” Ferman-León. DJ graduated with a Bachelor’s in Economics from the University of Missouri-Kansas City (UMKC) in the fall of 2014. DJ and I both were both lucky enough to take Dr. Henry’s world class course together at UMKC, ECON 406 – The History of Economic Thought, just before Dr. Henry retired.

I asked DJ about his background and early burglary years. We talked about the commonalities between our upbringings as Chicanos and brown-skinned Americans in America, a nation founded upon undercurrents of white supremacy. We talked about what led him toward radical consciousness, critical theory, economics, and, more recently, cultural anthropology. DJ discussed the capitalist mode of production and the contemporary politics of resignation as well as pathways toward radical transformation. DJ is definitely one of my favourite thinkers and colleagues at UMKC. Lumpenproletariat.org recommends looking out for DJ’s work and contributions to radical and critical theory in the near future.

-Messina

University of Missouri-Kansas City, Department of Economics, Spring 2015

MESSINA: (c. 0:01) “This is Messina, for Lumpenproletariat.org. And, today, I have the honour of sitting with one of my favourite thinkers at UKMC, DJ León-Ferman. Is that how you say it?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Ferman-León.”

MESSINA: “Ferman-León.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “[DJ is] one of my colleagues and classmates from UMKC. However, unlike me, who hasn’t graduated yet, you do have a degree in economics. Right?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah. I just finished. And I still owe UMKC a whole bunch of money. So, they still have my degree. [chuckles]”

MESSINA: “[laughs] Oh, really?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “They’re gonna keep it hostage until you pay ’em every red cent you owe ’em. [laughs]”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “That’s how it works.”

MESSINA: “And did you do a minor?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “No, no minor. But I could’ve—”

MESSINA: “No minor. So, it’s an Economics BA?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “M-hm.”

MESSINA: “Ah, cool, man, same like me.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “But you transferred from KU. Right?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “And, like me, I think you are of Mexican heritage. Right?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yep.”

MESSINA: “Can you talk a little bit about your Mexican heritage?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah. So, I’m from the state of Veracruz in southern Mexico. It’s a different place. But, yeah, my mom’s background is Cuban. And my dad is Mexican.”

MESSINA: “Mm.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Um, moved here when I was five, to Texas with my grandma. And, then, my parents came and joined us. And, then, we’ve lived in Kansas City since I—I’ve lived in Kansas City since I was six. So—”

MESSINA: “Nice.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “—I’m a Kansas City boy.”

MESSINA: “Yeah. So, then, you’ve been through the Kansas City public schools?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yep.”

MESSINA: “Yeah. Public schools. You didn’t do the private schools or the Catholic schools.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Nope.”

MESSINA: “Nah. What was that like? What was the, uh, Kansas City public schools like?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Fucking horrible. It was a prison.”

MESSINA: “[chuckles] Really?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah. No kind of intellectual stimulation. And you get—unfortunately, a lot of people get caught in the legal system at a really early age. Right? So, you go to probation and diversion [programmes]. And you can’t make it out.”

MESSINA: “Mm. M-hm.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “But it sort of, like, trains you.”

MESSINA: “Mm.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “It disciplines you for the legal system.”

MESSINA: “Now, when I met you, one of the things that I was attracted to and interested in was, um, you know, the activist consciousness. You know? So, having this working-class background—”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “M-hm.”

MESSINA: “—in public schools, what attracted you to activist, you know, issues, causes, concepts? Did that start, like, early on in elementary school, middle school?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “No. It was really late for me. I think, um. I think there was a lot of discontent already in the inner city. And it’s expressed and it’s channelled—the way it’s channelled is through really destructive channels. And there’s a lot of frustration. And I think, as a kid, growing up, I knew that I harboured that discontent. Right? And I harboured this fucking immense anger towards something. Right? And you don’t know. You don’t know why your family is disintegrating. You don’t know why you’re poor. Right? You don’t know. But you know that something’s wrong. Right? And I think that sentiment is pervasive—right?—for all of us—right?—growing up that way.” (c. 3:50)

MESSINA: “Yeah. I certainly felt that.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “But, as a kid, you don’t—of course, you don’t learn radical pedagogy at school. They’re not gonna fuckin’ teach that. They’re not gonna teach you. So, you learn to express it through like mass media or role models, whatever. But I think that whole environment, that geography is gonna, eventually, lead to destructive ends.

“But, so, that’s my long ass way of saying that I felt something was wrong. But my epiphany didn’t come until, like, maybe late, late teens.”

MESSINA: “Mm.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “And that’s when I started realising that shit was fucked up and that there were other possibilities. And, actually, I was in the hospital my senior year [of high school]. And, that’s what made me—I had surgery. I missed my high school graduation. My sister was in jail at the time. So, it was a really tumultuous time. Right?”

MESSINA: “Yeah.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “And that’s when I had that privilege of pausing everything ‘cos I was in bed the whole summer recovering.”

MESSINA: “Wow, recovering from [surgery]?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “[Yeah.]”

MESSINA: “And, so, that gave you a lot of time to sit and reflect?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yep.”

MESSINA: “That reminds me of Frida Kahlo. I think she was bed-ridden for a while and, so, had time to reflect.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “So, you enter your late teens and you start having these realisations. Is that something that’s just triggered from your environment? Or was it catalysed by any particular stuff you read or music or, you know, books, or any kind of cultural references?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah, yeah. I read Bless Me, Ultima by ‘Corky’ Gonzalez [1928-2005].”

MESSINA: “Oh, ‘Corky’ Gonzalez?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “No, no. It was—no! ‘Corky’ Gonzalez wrote I Am Joaquin—Yo Soy Joaquín.“

MESSINA: “M-hm.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “I read that poem. And I read Bless Me, Ultima by Rudolfo Anaya (b. 1937).”

MESSINA: “[SNIP] How did you get exposed to those books?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “I don’t remember.”

MESSINA: “[laughs] Yeah. That sounds a lot like my experience. You know? [SNIP] Before we were talking about the recent interview, that Davey D did with a solitary confinement survivor, Eddie Zheng. And he described some of his influences that started to open up his eyes. It was reading certain books and being exposed to history. And he mentioned The People’s History of the United States by Howard Zinn.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Oh. Yeah.”

MESSINA: “And he mentioned some key figures, that were influential to him, like Frederick Douglass and a lot of Civil Rights and Black Power [movement] leaders.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “M-hm.”

MESSINA: “Malcolm X. Martin Luther King, Jr. And, um, yeah, similarly, for me, too, the first book report I ever wrote, probably, was probably in fourth grade. And it was on Frederick Douglass. And I don’t know how—”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “[chuckles].”

MESSINA: “—[laughs] I got into the abolitionist movement in the third or fourth grade or whatever. But I think it was just, at the time—you know, ‘cos I’m born in December of 1974. So, being in school in the early ’80s, in the elementary school, it was kind of, like, the post-hippie era. It was kind of still in the air, you know, especially in California, in the San Francisco Bay Area, where I grew up. That kind of vibe was all over the place. Right? So, there were a lot of those public [service announcements.] Like one that said: I’m proud to be a Mexican-American. Or: I’m proud to be African-American. [SNIP]”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “[SNIP] So, all of that, growing up with that, it made me be interested in it. But, for me, it was a long hibernation of kind of being aware and kind of being angry about stuff, but not really doing anything about it—”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “—until much, much, much later, trying to—”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “—trying do something about it. But—”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “No—I think it’s really fucked up ‘cos—I—yeah. So, the political, social, cultural ethos really influences how we’re gonna—like what channels you’re gonna express that through. Right?”

MESSINA: “Yeah.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “For me, I grew up in a post-9/11 era. Right?”

MESSINA: “Mm.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “So, I was in fifth grade when that happened. And that really impacted me. But it only makes sense now, retroactively. I can go back and say: Okay, that’s why I felt that way.

[SNIP]” [Thank you for reading this far, comrade! Please scroll down to the ending of the interview. And please visit Lumpenproletariat.org after final exams/graduation events subside, 16 MAY 2015. We will transcribe the entire interview at that time. Plus, we will upload audio of the interview as soon as possible, too. Solidarity.]

[critical theory]

[SNIP]

[California Institute for Integral Studies]

[SNIP]

“[Kendrick Lamar, “Wesley’s Theory“: A friend never leave Compton for profit…]”

[SNIP]

“…the Dream Alliance. [KS/MO Dream Alliance] []”

[SNIP]

[c. 1:07:40]

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah. And some people don’t. I think it’s important for all of us to have our—there’s all these, like, thresholds, that we have to cross—right?—as aspiring radicals. And my threshold was the Frankfurt School. And yours might be another school of thought. Right? But I think we all should have those. And, if they’re different, then, that’s fine. But I think those are very important, like, these stepping stones. Right?” (c. 1:08:09)

MESSINA: “It’s like a way in.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Right.”

MESSINA: “It’s like the first entry or way in.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “And, then, you move beyond it.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah! Yeah. And it’s important because we realise that there were people—there’s a whole history of people—who resisted. Right? And, for someone, it could be the Black Liberation. There’s the Black Panthers. For some people, it can be like the Chicano Movements. For some people, it can be, I don’t know. Um, you name it. But, all over the world, there’s these people—right?—who have laid down these roots of resistance.

“And they have given us a vocabulary to attack the status quo with. And, in my group, it was the Frankfurt School.”

MESSINA: “Okay. And, so, there’s questions of post-modernists and non-post-modernists?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “Is this correct?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “And this comes into social theory?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah.”

MESSINA: “So, is that another bifurcation? Like the bifurcation in economics between the orthodoxy and the heterodoxy?”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah. I think it’s also this false opposition that we should—it’s really meaningless—”

MESSINA: “Yeah.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “—for—meaningless—I mean it’s meaningful to know why that happened, the history behind that divide. But I think, practically, for anyone, for us, trying to do something in the world, it—come on—forget it. Once you know it, get over it. Don’t care whether you’re labelled modernist or post-modernist. Fuck that. Worry about, you know, doing something. [chuckles]”

MESSINA: “Yeah. Definitely.

“DJ, thank you very much for talking with me [and Lumpenproletariat.org].”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “Yeah. Thank you, man.”

MESSINA: “[laughs]”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “I hope we see each other in California, hopefully—”

MESSINA: “For sure.”

DJ FERMAN-LEÓN: “—after you leave.”

[end of interview]

[full transcript pending]

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Here’s what the brilliant economist(s) are saying about this interview at the USA’s dopest heterodox economics department, UMKC:

“Felipe Messina interviews DJ Ferman Leon. I think it’s a brilliant interview with very interesting insights about what motivates a young man in Kansas City to adopt a radical philosophy towards his work and his life. Well done to both of you!” —Ruchira Sen, Economics/Social Science Consortium

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[last updated 5 MAY 2015 20:34 CDT]

[This is a partial transcript; full transcript pending, see http://lumpenproletariat.org/2015/04/11/heterodox-economics-cultural-anthropology-and-radical-transformation-with-d-j-ferman-leon-ba-economics-umkc-2014/ ]