Fascism Creeping Into The Bay Area

saw same thing on muni. frightened asian woman was taken off bus by mark david chapman looking white cop and a old south attitude husky black woman cop. the woman probably didnt realize her ''mistake''. no reason to haul someone off. no one on bus cared, even black people. no one trusts americans anymore including americans. if you choose to call youself that. not me. nazi fascism people soooo afraid to lose their security. they already have. there are aliens in the sky. betterwake up!

Considering the excessive amount of fare evaders on MUNI they are just actually doing the job they should be doing. It sounds like they are targeting areas where it is the worst. If you paid your fare then you don't have anything to worry about and really shouldn't be protecting people who are basically stealing. I see people jump the gates, just walk through the side exits, and come in through the back doors as often as those that actually pay. People need to be fined for this behavior and considering the way some react when caught the backup that was present is needed. That’s not fascism, that’s catching people stealing.

As to BART that's standard when something happens if they feel there is any risk to the public or potential liability to them. It's really frustrating when they hold a train or blow through your stop but keep safety in mind. Containing a situation on a train most times requires stopping the train at the next station and dealing with it before allowing it to move on. Otherwise people just bolt out of the station and good luck ever catching them after that. If the robber or assailant were still at large in the area most people wouldn't want to be put in that situation. Imagine if it was a violent crime and you were walking home from that station? There is also when they are taking someone into custody on the platform where it can still be extremely dangerous even once things seem all clear. Other times with a bad medical emergency the platform needs to stay clear until the medical personnel are done with whatever was necessary. Public safety comes first. That’s not fascism, that common sense.

UC really screwed up with the pepper spray incident. I doubt you’ve watched all the video leading up to it and after though which shows how nasty and aggressive the crowd was getting or how they were being led like sheep into what it became. The protesters didn’t deserve that but they didn’t exactly handle themselves any better than the police overall.

The same can be said for Occupy in downtown Oakland. I work down here and the amount of destruction and anger against us and the local business has been disgusting. Telling shops they weren’t allowed to be open on May Day and starting to trash them in retaliation? Small businesses still get charged rent and have a bottom line to cover so many can’t afford to close even for a day. Additionally some businesses have been forced to close down here due to the encampment that took over Ogawa Plaza last year. People were afraid to come downtown and some still are including new businesses. That area was avoided for the general feeling, the look a lot of people would give to those of us who have to come to work in a shirt and tie, and the stench from trash, people, and continuous drinking and smoking out. It wasn’t serious most of the time; it was a party and hang out. Now every time the voices behind the Occupy movement announce an action many companies and businesses have to decide if it’s going to be safe for their employees to come and go from work. Most of us down here are part of the 99% that the current Occupy group claims to represent and we suffer for the actions that are taken. I don’t hear about support anymore, just how it’s not anything advancing the original or even a cohesive message. As long as there are hundred’s of different messages and not the focus on Wall Street, which should still be the focal point, there isn’t much to it.

It’s just a colophony of voices where it’s hard to pick out a single one. Its anger, hate, and chaos that work against any potential good that could come. It’s the anarchists, black bloc kids, and other detrimental elements that have hijacked the Occupy voice and message in the name of their own agenda by any means necessary. Like anything the worst rises to the surface and it’s what people will remember the most. It doesn’t matter if it’s what we see for ourselves, what the media feeds us, or things said in passing conversation. And the majority of people remember the worst more often than the best. That’s just a simple truth.

Wake up, take a deep breath, and look at the smoking ruins that surround you. You cry fascism, oppression, the evil that is any form of authority, or that anyone who doesn’t think like you or step in line with your message are sheep, fools, or conspirators of the evil empire. The world isn’t fair or pretty a lot of the time but there is always hope and constructive ways to go about making change. Open up your hearts and minds to give that a chance before provoking a violent response and endangering the rest of us again.

We should not throw around the word fascism with such disregard for what it really is - the politically disarming of the working class and all independent political voices.
What we really have is the bosses cops harrissing the workers and poor while letting the Montgomery Street bankers and stock speculators waltz down Market with their stolen funds protected from search and seizure.

If the Transport Workers Union Local 250-A was doing their job such actions would be impossible but the only thing the leadership of TWU Local 250-A wants to do is bow down to the Lee Administration and keep "labor peace" with MUNI. TWA Local 250-A should be demanding free MUNI for all, put more buses on line, return the eliminated and truncated lines, end the recorded haranques on the busses, and put a conductor on busses to assist the driver and public. That will not happen with the present union leadership because they are afraid of the bosses and the politicians. It will take a revolutionary leadership that recognizes that capitalism is corrupt and diseased and must be replaced by a workers government.

You really need to read up on Fascism and see how small things lead up to bigger things. Now days there are almost 40,000 swat actions per year in the USA. We have more people in prison than any other country in the world. We pay for senseless wars in the billions and yet don't have enough for our schools, libraries or decent health care. People are sleeping on the streets. And you think a team of armed people should be able to stop a bus in rush hour and demand to see proof of payment?

You are very scary and thinking like yours really doesn't see the big picture at all. While Occupiers in Oakland have been smeared by people like you and the media, The police you so love have actually been violent, hurt people and almost killed two people. Occupy Oakland is also an outgrowth of the movement to bring justice for the death of Oscar Grant and others killed on the streets of Oakland by cops. The black bloc has done nothing like the violence US drones have perpetrated on many innocent people and communities. It is too bad when the black bloc prevents Amerikans from having dinner, drinks, walking their dogs or enjoying the other pleasures of the Empire while it's drones and bombs kill others and destroy their property overseas. Can't you see the big picture of that?

Now it is legal for cops to strip search people for misdemeanor arrests? I suppose you love that one as well. and in your book that is not fascist.

Why am I even responding to you? I'm giving you a chance to learn before it is too late.

TSA's ongoing mistreatment, humiliation and general abrasive handling of Americans at airports and now buses and trains may be a portent to Americans be roughed up, arrested if they refuse to be stripped searched, patted down or x-rayed at highway checkpoints; when boarding—any form of public transportation—bus, train, cruse ship. TSA appears headed toward shutting down Americans' Right To Travel Freely in their Own Country. It is problematic TSA in the future may blackball Americans without explanation using public transportation; and prevent Citizens driving beyond highway checkpoints.

The Nazi Military and Police repeatedly targeted for harassment—Citizens boarding trains and buses labeled politically or socially undesirable; intentionally caused targeted Citizens to be late or miss work. Many German Citizens expectantly lost their jobs and could not survive. Targeted Citizens were placed on (Nazi do not hire lists). Desperate unemployed German Citizens caught stealing food were sent to Nazi work camps never to be seen again.

It is disappointing you call me a cop lover since I disagree with your mindset. I’m not but I know that without them around things would be a hell of a lot worse than they are. I also know about fascism in detail and I know that violence and hiding behind black garb in crowds on human shields isn’t right either. Peaceful protests work great as has been seen numerous times. It’s when anarchists and black bloc tactics with weapons and shields both material and flesh come in that things escalate and go very wrong. The police aren’t the ones pushing it to the boiling point, you are. It feels it doesn’t matter who gets hurt or if the businesses are even of the 1% you’re so angry with. Does collateral damage even come to mind? Look at what happened in the Mission the night before May Day and to so many other businesses in downtown Oakland over the last year. You aren’t exactly giving many options for good press with your actions.

Do you consider what harm comes to those around you who aren’t hiding their faces? You demand the police faces and name plates be visible on their uniforms at all times yet you want to remain anonymous. Nobody can know who you are so there are no repercussions for your actions yet you want to see the police and everyone else held accountable. How brave or honorable is that?

Did you know every time Occupy does something downtown or somewhere else, and I mean EVERY TIME, that cops on my and other beats automatically are pulled in to make sure things don’t go bad wherever it’s happening. This allows the drug dealers, gang members, prostitutes, and every other crappy element we are trying to clear out a night to do whatever they want. They can’t help us cleanup our neighborhood because they’re busy dealing with your antics. You may be proud that you can tie up (waste) so much time and money but I’m disgusted with it. You’re hurting the community you so proudly claim to represent.

Do I agree with the MUNI fare evaders being pulled and cited? Yes. If those fares were actually being paid that service wouldn’t be the money pit is, fares wouldn’t increase like they have, and service wouldn’t be cut so much. It’s been a problem for longer than I care to remember and something has to be done about it. The heavy handed response is because some people react violently when confronted so they have to plan accordingly to protect the people issuing the citations. If people dealt with it in a reasonable manner and accepted fault for their actions this wouldn’t be what you’re seeing happen. Nobody deserves to be at risk of being attacked for doing their job.

As to strip searched for misdemeanor offences? That ruling by the Supreme Court does carry some serious concerns which will need to be addressed. To arbitrarily remove that tool isn’t right and using it for a misdemeanor offense is excessive in most cases. That’s not to say that there aren’t situations that would arise where it would be appropriate. Take a known drug dealer working his corner that’s picked up for loitering for the 10th or 100th time like is a major problem in my neighborhood. When he gets taken in I would hope they’d search him for drugs as it’s a tool to help keep him or her off the street and send a message to the others who saw the arrest. Very careful consideration needs to be taken like with many other tools at an officer’s disposal otherwise it opens the department up civil and potentially criminal lawsuits. There are good cops who use these tools wisely and then there are unfortunately those who abuse power. That’s a problem throughout every aspect of life though, not just police and government.

Are we a war mongering country? Sadly yes and we have been for far too long. It needs to stop and that money feeding into the military going to the states for medical, schools, and other important programs. As I said before there are much more constructive ways to tackle this besides violence to get a message across. I see the global picture, it’s not pretty. I know how people look at Americans, and sadly most don’t care how the world views them. I do my best to do things in a constructive manner and in a positive way. How is that scary? With an open heart and mind you can do a heck of a lot more than with anger and violence.

You didn't really think you could have a substantial political discussion about fascism on this website forum did you? People throw emotional terms around all the time to generate outrage in others and smugness in themselves. Substituting "fascism" for an apparent increase in the repressive nature of the police is 1) sloppy thinking; 2) anti-intellectual and ahistorical; 3) distracting; and 4) ultimately useless.

Increased militarization of the police (that began back in the late 60s) and an increase in certain departments' intimidating presence has only a tangential relationship to the historical rise of fascism. A police state (where the police get to do almost anything with impunity) is not the same as a fascist state, and anyone who can't tell the difference should remove "fascism" from their vocabulary.

A good starting point for understanding the history and function of policing in the U.S. is the book:
Our Enemies in Blue: Police and Power in America by Kristian Williams
Revised Edition: August 1, 2007
ISBN-10: 0896087719
ISBN-13: 9780896087712

'Fascism' is a mass political movement based on sections of the population intent on defending their class, caste and race privileges by means inside AND outside the framework of bourgeois democracy. Historically, the most important example of such a movement in the U.S. was the Ku Klux Klan of the late 19th century and, though somewhat less important, of the 1920's. When such a movement comes to power, or aids in the taking of power by the military, as in Chile, the ensuing state is not necessarily all that different from a highly repressive state that evolves out of the 'normal' bourgeois state in crisis, especially a state, like that of the U.S., that is historically based on racial domination.

In other words, fascism is a particular phenomenon that has to be fought by certain specific means in addition to general anti-capitalist struggle, but that doesn't say much one way or the other about the state that evolves out of a fascist seizure of power. Nor does it mean that it's wrong to describe the authoritarian developments in a bourgeois-democratic state as 'fascistic', or 'fascist-like', and there are many such developments in the U.S. system of repression -- developments accelerated under Obama -- that were certainly denounced as 'fascist' when they were done a few generations ago under governments of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, et al..

Fascism is defined by the person who coined that term, Mussolini. He simply called it "the corporate state". Fascism and corporate interests are inextricably linked and the unfettered power of corporations gives the fascists their power. All corporations have a corporate culture and part of that culture is a racist one. Only people who fit in with that culture are a part of the corporation and when that is extended to society without any constraints, that's fascism.

To put it simply, fascism is socialism for corporations where corporate entities have all the power and the people are subservient to corporate interests and only exist as an expense on the income statement no different than a piece of machinery. People have no rights, only corporate entities do.

A strong police state is how the fascists get control. Big business and the rich who run these businesses have the capital to control the police for their own interests. The Gestapo functioned as an arm of the Nazi party and the Nazi party was in turn full of big business interests. The state and corporations were one in the same. The fascist state and fascism are one in the same. Hitler, Mussolini, Franco are not "fascist" in quotes, they ARE fascist.

In refrence to your comment about the pepper spraying of the UC students. I saw the whole video and I have to disagree with you for one reason. I saw alot of yelling but no violance and no threat to public safety. The cops were the ones who showed up in riot gear because some kids were sitting across the walk way. Then that "pig" casually walks by and covers them in a cloud of pepper spary. Here is my point, when there is no immediate threat to public safety and a cop (executive branch of govt.) decides to deal out judgement and punnishment he is crossing the line into the judicial branch of govt. If those kids were such a threat why was he able to walk so casually while pepperspraying? There was no physical violance from the victims side of that incident, then there was no public safety issue, then why should a cop be able to deal out judgement and punnishment?