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Indybay Feature

Dredge Mining Ban Bill Passes Key Assembly Committee Today

by Dan Bacher
A bill to impose a moratorium on the granting of suction dredge mining permits passed out of the Assembly Water, Parks and Wildlife Committee today.

Photo: A suction dredge miner has dammed and rerouted part of the East Fork San Gabriel River in southern California. Dozens of miners are working a few miles of this river, which provides critical habitat for endangered native fish and drinking water for much of Los Angeles. Courtesy of Steve Evans, Friends of the River, Sacramento.
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Dredge Mining Ban Bill Passes Key Assembly Committee Today

by Dan Bacher

State Senator Pat Wiggin's SB 670 - the bill that puts a moratorium on the issuance of suction dredge permits by the California Department of Fish and Game until a CEQA review and rules revision is conduced - passed out of the Assembly Water, Parks and Wildlife Committee on a 11-0 vote today.

SB 670 is headed to headed to the Appropriations Committee next week, then on to the Assembly Floor. The bill is supported by a broad coalition of California Indian Tribes, commercial fishing organizations, recreational fishing groups and environmental organizations.

"It has already passed the Senate with a two-thirds majority," said Craig Tucker, Klamath Coordinator for the Karuk Tribe. "We seek to have two-thirds majority in the Assembly, as this is needed to make it an 'urgency' bill. This means that the law would go into effect upon signing by the Governor as opposed to Jan 1 of next year."

Tucker noted that bill so far has enjoyed significant bipartisan support and he and other supporters of the legislation are "very optimistic" that it will pass and be signed by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.

“It is heartening to see such strong support for SB 670 in both the Senate and Assembly," said Scott Harding, Executive Director of the Klamath Riverkeeper. "This bill helps address the dramatic decline of California’s fisheries and promotes equality by no longer allowing a small group of hobby miners to harm the state’s important commercial fisheries and tourism economies that rely on clean, healthy rivers."

“Current California regulations permit monster-sized dredges capable of moving thousands of yards of river bottom in a summer season,” said Wiggins, in explaining her reasons for sponsoring the legislation. “This kills fish eggs, immature eels and churns up long-buried mercury left over from the gold mining era. In short, it’s harmful to fish at a time when they need our help the most.”

Earlier this year, DFG Director Don Koch rejected a petition by tribes and fishing groups to imposium a moratorium on suction dredge mining until environmental studies were conducted. Governor Schwarzenegger vetoed a similar measure last fall, as well as a previous bill sponsored by then-Assembly Member Lois Wolk in 2007.

"Gold dredge miners scour the bottom of river beds with large floating vacuum cleaners that filter out gold particles and spit the remaining silt back into the river," according to California Trout, one of the legislation's sponsors. "Besides muddying up clear waters, dredge mining kills fish eggs, immature eels and churns up long-buried mercury left over from the gold-mining era."

The bill is supported by a broad coalition of Indian Tribes, fishing groups and environmental groups. Supporters include the California Coastkeeper Alliance, California Sportfishing Protection Alliance, California Tribal Business Alliance, California Trout, Clean Water Action, Friends of the River, Karuk Tribe, Klamath Riverkeeper, Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen’s Associations, Planning and Conservation League, Ramona Band of Cahuila, San Manuel Band of Mission Indians, Sierra Club California, Sierra Fund, Sierra Nevada Alliance and Sycuan Band of the Kumeyaay Nation.

The bill’s opponents include the County of Siskiyou, New 49′ers and Regional Council of Rural Counties. Earlier this year the New 49′ers, a mining advocacy group, and other mining organizations filed a petition with the California Fish and Game Commission to ban the Karuk Tribe from dip net fishing for salmon on the Klamath, but the petition was rejected.

The New 49′ers argue that no scientific information points to suction dredging as a cause in the collapse of salmon and that the collapse is due to ocean conditions and an over-reliance on hatchery fish. They claim that a moratorium would violate the private property rights of those who have federal mining claims and create “takings” liability on the part of the state.

Harding noted that California’s taxpayers heavily subsidize the state’s suction dredge permit program through the California Department of Fish and Game. "The state spends $1.25 million more per year on the permit program than it receives in permit fees, amounting to a $400 subsidy for each of the 3,200 miners that obtain permits," said Harding.

The Klamath Riverkeeper has supported SB 670 and is also a co-plaintiff in a pending lawsuit against the DFG over their suction dredge mining program. “We have multiple avenues to seek a ban on this harmful mining practice until it can be scientifically evaluated and properly regulated," concluded Harding. "The committee passage of SB 670 is another step toward a legislative solution to this critical issue."

For more information, go to http://www.caltrout.org and http://www.klamathriver.org.

Add Your Comments

Comments (Hide Comments)
by plp (ronstrand [at] plp1.org)
You need pull this picture down immediately you do not have this persons permission ,whom i'm going to inform and advise him to take legal action for false accusations against him. also what you do see is that there is no dam by legal definition at all just an open water flow for the trout and santa ana sucker to go through, not only one but three openings.Once again you people are lured into believing that we the dredgers are causing harm when there is no non- bias scientific studies,to prove harm just opinions of a couple of dfg employee's with their own agenda's .All these politicians whom sponsor these bogus bills are only doing it because they are supported by the same group's through campaign and political contributions that are behind these bills .Figure it out for yourself instead of making a decision based on this story and picture you can come on up to the east fork and i will personally get you a wet suit and breathing apparatus and you can go underwater to see how many fish are thriving ,and are having a feast in our holes literally hundreds per hole . Seeing in person is the only way for you to truly understand the benefits of suction dredge mining ,not some article or politician who MAY NOT GET re-ELECTED or receive the big campaign contributions they are so accustomed too if they don't do what these certain outdoor user groups say they want.Take my challenge if you have the time i guarantee ill change your mindset on the effects of suction dredging on fish.And also those same politicians i guarantee never even step foot into the public lands they say they are protecting ,we all need to figure it out that when the government makes wilderness areas etc. that they are taking back from the people the lands that where in the public domain and giving full control back to the gov. of these lands ,thus taking away any rights we as the people had .Everything east of the mississippi is gov controlled lands west of miss is public domain lands slowly but surely being taken out of the people's hands under the guise of wilderness acts withdrawls etc. .WAKE UP!!!!!!!!! feel free to contact me.And come on up and see for yourself.P.s. the only ones whom build damns that impede fish movement are the same people whom leave diapers graffiti and trash on the river every weekend so you might want to focus your efforts on getting them to clean up the mess they create ,and if you need any studies non- bias of course by true scientists, biologists on the effects of turbidity,fish habitat, etc. from suction dredging feel free to contact me, i have and will provide it ,unlike this article im responding to.
ron strand
ronstrand [at] plp1.org
626 626 5396
by ron strand
p.s. Suction Decge Prospectors will never impede the free movement of fish i ,and even the person in your pic take every measure to ensure that the fish will never be stopped from moving and being healthy NEVER!!!We are fishermen too.!!!
by Earl
It does appear your friend is diverting the channel into the bank, which I do believe is illegal. Before issuing threats (ie frivolous lawsuits), I'd suggest PLP et al crawl back into your bunkers and wait for the Black Helicopters, you'll feel safer in the womb like environment. I think what gets your goat is finally people are standing up to this group of hobby miners and not afraid of the bluff and bluster, a perfect example is the we'll sue you if you do not take the picture down. I applaud Mr Bacher and all the others who are working to ensure temporary moratorium is on place until the CEQA review is finished and updated rules in place.
by Leo
I know this river well - I'm there every two weeks. There is no dam in this picture. And people - not miners DO dam up the river ever 100 yard or so to make deeper pools to swim in. If a miner damed up the river where he/she was working - it would not work well for the hole that he/she is dredging in - it doesn't add up. People need to learn the truth and stop listening to spin. To devert the river you need a dam. If there was a dam here - the river wouldn't be flowing fast on the bottom of the picture... ? This is where the river has been running after the massive 2005 flood.

Science has proven that most of the mercury in our oceans / rivers comes from coal and fossil fuel burning. Dredgers take that and the mercury from the old timers bad mining history OUT of our water ways... Some states WORK with prospectors to get this stuff out of our drinking water. Can you guess how many dirty baby diapers miners take out of the water up in the east fork EVERY weekend... ? I've NEVER seen the Sierra Club out there cleaning up the river !!! Even if they were - they would never get the mercury out of the river - it would just move down river in the big floods... ?

I'M A VERY GREEN PERSON TOO - most miners are. We need to all get informed and fight the real problems NOT the spin.

WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER - NOT FIGHT EACH OTHER OVER MISINFORMATION.

Divided we fail...
by calnatv
All Mr Bacher is doing by supporting this bill is dividing sportsman and outdoor enthusiasts. Myself included. In the long run it will only prove to hurt his cause by less and less support from people that enjoy using our public lands. I was once a long time supporter of the Fish Sniffer and other fishing publications, but all that changed when SB670 reared it's ugly head and I saw the people that were supported it.
Stick to the people that control our water Dan. There the real problem.
by ron strand
owe yes the super canyon sweep was this last weekend how many friends of the river took part ?Every prospector up there took part along with the forest service district ranger and many other group s including the sierra club .A sincere thankls to all whom partook we filled a complete 40 foot dumpster to the rim also here a link to studies and testimony of a retires EPA biologist on the effects of suction dredge mining all positive of course where your proof author http://www.icmj.com/UserFiles/file/recent-news/Joseph-Greene-suction-gold-dredge-study.pdf
by Leo
I had no idea the the Sierra Club helped out in the canyon sweeps with the prospectors - I thought it was set up by the local prospectors. I know the Sierra Club does lots of good for our environment, but after this SB 670 moratorium bill - I'm getting a different feeling for them. There is NO proof of harm done by dredging and it all seems like spin to me, but hats off to the Sierra Club for helping out with the clean ups and I MUST take back what I said about them not helping us to clean up the rivers. OPPS

I JUST DON'T GET HOW THERE COULD BE A MORATORIUM ON DREDGING WITH NO PROOF OF WRONG DOING TO OUR ENVIRONMENT FROM DREDGES !!!! (other than the carbon from the fossil fuels)

EVEN WHEN SCIENTIFIC STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THE OPPOSITE EFFECT FROM DREDGING - I THINK THIS SHOWS A DEEPER PROBLEM WITH OUR SYSTEM WHEN OPINIONS OUT WAY FACTS...... ???????




We ALL get more done together as a team !!!! Lets stick to the FACTS...
by Leo
Just some facts about mercury....


http://www.mercuryfacts.org/?gclid=COnJmMHNi5sCFRAhDQodaHHcog

http://www.epi.state.nc.us/epi/fish/mercuryhealthfacts.html

http://www.physorg.com/news163781519.html


To date, none of the reports about the decline of the salmon population has mentioned suction dredge mining as a cause of the decline. The most recent EIR found that suction dredging had positive impacts, creating additional salmon spawning habitat by loosening concreted river gravels. Salmon runs are on the upswing in the Klamath River and all of the scientific studies done to date have shown that declines in West Coast salmon populations are due mainly to ocean conditions and an over reliance on hatchery fish.

Indeed, in the 2005-2006 End of Session Summary Report by the California Assembly Water, Parks & Wildlife Committee, the harm to salmon isn’t even indirectly attributed to suction gold mining:

“Passage of salmon in the Klamath River has been blocked by a series of hydroelectric dams on the river. Toxic algae blooms in reservoirs behind the dams have contributed to fish kills and are also toxic to humans. Salmon are also adversely affected by flow and temperature levels in the river, which in turn contribute to the growth of certain parasites in the river that are harmful to salmon. Stakeholders affected by the Klamath River, including commercial fishing groups, farmers, the energy company that operates the dams (PacifiCorp), tribal representatives, rafting enthusiasts, and environmental groups have been meeting in confidential negotiations in an effort to hammer out a compromise. Options being considered include potential removal of some of the dams on the river.”

Suction dredge mining is already limited to a short season that keeps miners out of the rivers when salmon redds are present. A broader moratorium on suction dredge gold mining in California is unwarranted, and would violate the private property rights of Californians who have federal mining claims along the rivers, because the gold cannot be accessed without the use of suction dredging. If SB 670 passes it would result in very significant “takings” liability against the State.

Since there is no evidence to support shutting down our legal and legitimate enterprise before the EIR is completed, particularly when prior studies fail to demonstrate any link between local salmon populations and suction dredge mining.

Toxic algae blooms have been Scientifically proven to kill a host of marine life in many areas around the world, much like the Chesapeake Bay area and the coastal waters of my home state, Florida.

I have grown up swimming with sharks, fish - you name it. The fish LOVE it when we dredge in the rivers - THEY SWARM US !!!!

CAN WE PLEASE MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND WORK ON THE REAL PROBLEMS WE FACE not things that won't even make a small difference in our problems.... ?

LETS WORK TOGETHER LIKE THEY DO IN OTHER STATES !!!! WE GET THE MERCURY / LEAD OUT OF THE RIVERS !!!!
by Gold Mine
I wonder if I can use my dredge as a hookah diving system and a highbanker in water? Of course I would have to bring up the material in a bucket from the bottom. I know this would take a long time to recover the same amount of material as a dredge but hey, I would have all year to do so since I wouldn't be suction dredging.


This may be a blessing in disguise. Give up suction hose and hookah dive and highbank in water all year long. Sounds good to me!


Gold Mine
PRESS RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: June 16, 2009

Contact: Scott Harding, Executive Director, Klamath Riverkeeper, (541) 488-3553

California Bill Banning Recreational Suction Dredge Mining Passes Assembly Water, Parks, and Wildlife Committee with 11-0 Vote

Senator Wiggins’ SB 670 Would Place Moratorium On Suction Dredging Until Scientific Review and New Protections Are In Effect

Sacramento, CA – After a 31-8 bipartisan passage in the California Senate in late May, SB 670 today cleared the Assembly’s Water, Parks, and Wildlife Committee on a unanimous and bipartisan 11-0 vote. The bill places a moratorium on suction dredge mining in California’s rivers until a scientific review of the mining practice is completed and new rules protecting fisheries, water quality, and public health are in effect.

SB 670 contains an urgency clause that allows it to go into effect immediately upon the governor’s signing. It will go next to the Appropriations Committee then on to a full vote in the Assembly soon. Dozens of Tribes, conservation organizations, and commercial fishermen support the bill.

California’s taxpayers heavily subsidize the state’s suction dredge permit program through the California Department of Fish and Game. The state spends $1.25 million more per year on the permit program than it receives in permit fees, amounting to a $400 subsidy for each of the 3,200 miners that obtain permits.

Scott Harding, Executive Director of Klamath Riverkeeper said, “It is heartening to see such strong support for SB 670 in both the Senate and Assembly. This bill helps address the dramatic decline of California’s fisheries and promotes equality by no longer allowing a small group of hobby miners to harm the state’s important commercial fisheries and tourism economies that rely on clean, healthy rivers.”

Suction dredge mining takes place directly in river and stream channels using a floating, gas-powered vacuum coupled to a sluice box. The miner, sometimes with the aid of SCUBA gear, vacuums sediment, gravel, and small rocks from the river bottom. This material is then run through a mechanized sluice on the floating platform. Gold flakes are separated from the sediment, which is spit back into the river in long, murky plumes.

Suction dredging represents a chronic and unnatural disturbance to the river and is known to harm fisheries, aquatic habitat, and degrade water quality. It can stir up leftover mercury pollution from historical mining activity and reintroduce it into the food chain, creating a public health problem. Depending on size, location and density of these machines they can turn a clear running mountain stream into a murky watercourse unfit for swimming and destroy salmon spawning habitat.

Recreational mining businesses and prospecting clubs, such as the New 49’ers in Happy Camp, CA, bring hundreds of suction dredgers to the Klamath and its tributaries each year. California’s regulations of the mining practice are more lax than in other states, making it a popular destination for hobby miners. At times, ten or more suction dredges can be found in one river mile on the Klamath and several hundred dredges are estimated to be operating within the watershed at one time.

Klamath Riverkeeper has supported SB 670 and is also a co-plaintiff in a pending lawsuit against California Department of Fish and Game over their suction dredge mining program. “We have multiple avenues to seek a ban on this harmful mining practice until it can be scientifically evaluated and properly regulated. Today’s committee passage of SB 670 is the another step toward a legislative solution to this critical issue,” says Harding.

Klamath Riverkeeper is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated to restoring the Klamath River and its tributaries, fisheries, and communities. Klamath Riverkeeper has offices in Orleans, California and Ashland, Oregon. For more information please visit http://www.klamathriver.org.

###





Scott Harding
Executive Director
Klamath Riverkeeper
PO Box 897
Ashland, OR 97520

541.488.3553 (office)
541.488.6212 (fax)

http://www.klamathriver.org

by Leo
"Suction dredging represents a chronic and unnatural disturbance to the river and is known to harm fisheries, aquatic habitat, and degrade water quality. It can stir up leftover mercury pollution from historical mining activity and reintroduce it into the food chain, creating a public health problem. Depending on size, location and density of these machines they can turn a clear running mountain stream into a murky watercourse unfit for swimming and destroy salmon spawning habitat."

Its funny - you call your self the TRUTH TELLER, but I see NO FACTS in your comment or any links to back up your statement... ? How truthful are you really... ? How does dredging make it unfit for swimming ??? These are opinions not facts. There is NO proof it harms fish. people, or water quality - thats called SPECULATION not facts.... you should call your self SPECULATION TELLER... ?

In a natural undamed river - it floods every year loosening up concreted graves and silts up the river. It still happens with damed up rivers just at a smaller level. We are doing nothing as big as what nature does. Do you think the old mercury left there by the first miners JUST sits there and doesn't get blown around in the floods or it doesn't gets down into the aquifers. I listen to science - NOT an opinion. WE SHOULD NOT MAKE LAWS ON SPECULATION - like attacking a country because we think they have WMD, no WMD's - wait they are terrorist - no wait they are not - opps, well we did help the people get rid of a bad guy, but how about our real mission - stop the people who really attacked us... oh well it can wait a few years.... ?????

STOP THE LIES - FOCUS ON THE REAL PROBLEMS

Tax payers should NOT be paying for a dredging program - that's NOT RIGHT - it's just a STUPID waste of our money !!! We really do need to change that - raise the fees to help make the program pay for it's self. Cut nonessential parts of the program to make more of a saving. Tax payers money on a program like this IS a problem, but does NOT require a MORATORIUM !!!!

Seems like they throw anything just to try and stop dredging - something else is going on here...

WHY IS THERE A MORATORIUM ON DREDGING WITH NO NO NO NO NO PROOF OF THESE OPINIONS - IN FACT THE SCIENCE SHOWS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY ARE SAYING... ???????

SOME REAL FACTS :

http://www.nww.usace.army.mil/html/OFFICES/PA/FactSheets/FishFacts.pdf

SOME COMMON OBSERVATIONS AND OPINIONS FROM OVER 30 PLUS YEARS :

http://www.theunion.com/article/20090610/OPINION/906099975/1024

This is NOT Peru or Brazil, in the USA we have lots of regulations on the book for what, where, and when we can dredge. And as long as we work with in the laws that are on the book we have little to NO impact on the environment. Prospectors LOVE nature - its one of the reasons for doing this because most all dredgers don't make money. We LOVE the river and help to feed fish, make better deeper cooler pools for them, and as long as we dredge only in the right season and at the key areas on the river - which is LAW we don't kill fish eggs. And if you know about mercury - you'd know that we catch it in our equipment - that's how a sluice box works !!!! It catches HEAVY METALS - LEAD AND MERCURY. The mercury is there - no other group is cleaning it up but us.

I am ALL for more unbiased scientific research on dredging (a third party), but a moratorium for dredging on just opinions is down right a STUPID and unfair way to run ANYTHING.

STOP THE SPECULATION AND START WITH THE TRUTH !!!!!!

MAKE LAWS ON FACTS NOT ON WHAT SOMEONE THINKS IS GOING ON.
by Anthonh Bertucci
Harding noted that California’s taxpayers heavily subsidize the state’s suction dredge permit program through the California Department of Fish and Game. "The state spends $1.25 million more per year on the permit program than it receives in permit fees, amounting to a $400 subsidy for each of the 3,200 miners that obtain permits," said Harding. This statement is wrong as a claim holder i pay taxes on my cliam each year to the county the claim is in there should be no need for a subsidization for the permit program sence all claim owners pay this tax also.
by islamoradajay
I can give you one solid fact concerning Gold Dredging this year in Northern Ca, we have decided to go to Alaska and spend our money there. Ca will be broke next year and we shall return!
by Ed Jeske (ed.jeske [at] gmail.com)
I reside in the San Francisco Bay Area and have a comment. All of the creeks which feed into the bay around my neighborhood have always had salmon returning to spawn, in large numbers up until last year and this year. The numbers have decreased dramatically the last couple of years. However, there has NEVER been any dredging on these creeks. The problem is over fishing by huge drag netting factories on the open ocean, that's all. As far as I can gather from all the evidence available, dredging is no harsher on the environment than every winter flood is.
Thank you.

Ed Jeske
by Leo
I grew up in Fl and I've seen a big drop in the marine life over the time that I grew up over there. Before I left the state, we ban commercial net fishing... the next few seasons we saw a big influx of fish runs again !!! I mean you could REALLY see a difference in the water and I think we all so got better a grip on the algae blooms - better farming practices, controled the run off better, etc.

What scares me is the fact that as a whole we KNOW all of these things through science, but with NO FACTS at all that dredging is doing any harm (in fact most of the scientific studies have shown the opposite effects) BUT it still make it through ALL of these different levels of government - I think they are going through a lot of bills up there with no time to look at the facts, just what sounds right... AKA No Child Left Behind - sounds good, but it was a bad bill.

It seems like to often we have problems and too often we change some thing that has NO REAL impact on our problem - like illegal immigrants and health care - even if we did stop them from using the ER's like some people want to - it would NOT fix our health care system. We spend less than 0.2% of our health care dollars on illegal immigrants.

Dredgers use around 1% of our river ways - WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM.

LISTEN TO THE FACTS AND HAVE AN OPEN MIND, YOU'LL LEARN MORE.
by mailman
You once again you show no scientific evidence of any harm ,i have provided the link to several different studies and testimony from a EPA biologist de-minimus look it up study the studies my friend FACTS NOTHING MORE You provide opinions and nothing more jeezzzz sad that people are so damn gullible
by mailman
for your info plp has nothing to do with my opinion on what the picture and the author of this article are insinuating is happening in the picture you outright are accusing this person in the photo of a crime when all you have is a photo , hell if this is what you support guilty no matter what ,then you people are seriously screwed up in the head . I would never post a photo of someone standing somewhere and say he was comitting a crime ever thats just plain ignorance on anybody or groups part .It doesn't benefit your cause at aLL UNLESS YOU DON'T CARE WHOM YOU TAKE ON AS MEMBERS AS LONG AS THEY FOLLOW YOUR AGENDA. umm sounds like control just like religion ,not very free if you ask me.How bout i do this i take a picture of steve whom so graciously provided this one point and angle photo to start this whole issue ,and umm add in a school yard with little kids running around and say this guy is a known child molester .would you believe it and automatically assume without researching and questioning the author agenda and authenticity of the photo and accusations that he is definately commiting a crime ,I hope not and i would also hope you would contact a lawyer ,so pulling down this photo would be in the best interest of those involved of these assumptions that he is the one and this is illegal
by mailman
ohh yes and how many millions in taxpayers dollars are wasted trying to put these bills through and defending these law suites filed by cal trout ,the kuruks and others against the federal and state governments way too much .so whom is the waste of the most tax dollars i think not the dredgers .p.s. they don't even have to have a bond to go into these cases so if they lose they don't have to pay back a dime in attorney fees and what about the millions of tax dollars down the drain because of these people.posible into the 1 billion range wow where's the true problem
by mailman
bills put through by politicians that receive large political contribution from these groups ;CAL TROUT ,SIERRA CLUB this is known fact you got the money we'll make your agenda happen ,regardless of political affiliation government is run by special interests ,but one thing PLP never does is buy a politician, we just try and protect what little rights we as prospectors have through existing law we don't want any group of people to be segregated from our public lands it's called equal access for all .It's about following the law and accepting the scientific facts not some user group's opinions.Everyone one of these politicians that commented on these bills never gave any proof whatsoever of harm through studies they didn't even mention one study ,tells me that certain groups are behind them to get there agenda pushed through .Politics as usual
by Gold Mine
Senator Aanestad Argues Against Proposed Ban on Suction Dredge Mining (SB 670)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tmg0l-vbU0
by Gold Mine
Washington State gives dredgers Quicksilver Award for removing many pounds of MERCURY from local rivers and creeks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wke15rWFnFg&feature=related
by Billy
It looks like Dan and Earl are at it again, pushing a personal agenda upon things when they have no idea what they are even talking about ! Fact this bill would impact thousand of people dependant on mining! Fact when they stopped dredging on a river the Santa Ana sucker fish disappered when they returned to the river the fish returned with the dredges so there is fact that its good for fish to have dredge holes to rest in! Fact the mining community contributes over $70 million in state revenue to california alone, with a state in bankruptcy how can you justify the loss in revenue? Fact their picture is not only deceiving but also shows nothing being routed toward any bank, as the bank is almost showing 50 or more feet up hill. This picture is only there and being posted to satisfy the few special interest groups that have no idea what they are even fighting for !!
by Billy
Heres a few Facts that everyone seems to over look:
Fact salmon season does not coincide with dredging season, when the salmon are in the rivers laying their egges, all the northern rivers are closed to dredging and thus does not affect the fish at all.
Fact dredging creates natural bedding for salmon and trout to lay eggs in all year long !
Lastly, the fact is that by my dredging in a small creek 1 year and makeing a dredge hole it enabled the fire dept to use it to dip in and get enough water to save countless homes !!

PS. There are no scientific facts to currently prove that dredging harms fish habitat in fact it does the opposite.
by Billy
be careful how you decive other people !!!
by mailman
where did they go ? Too much for them to take all the facts they are probably trying to find some scientific studies by their own bias biologist wow thanks all that posted here makes me realize that we as a prospectors and users of the public lands that all is good if we could just show how irrational and one sided these certain groups are and stick together as one to stop the land grabs that the current administration is undertaking it's going to be a battle as always.But as long as we the people unite we can at least slow them down.
by Leo
I really think (in just my opinion) it is not a battle against a group of people, but of the misinformation that people believe in... most all people (most - not all) are much more a like then we are different. If we just fight groups of people - they will all ways fight back. If we hate them - they will all ways hate/fight us. The ONLY way to win is to show as many people as we can the REAL truth. If we don't - they will not stop, (some will never) because they really feel like they know what is going on and they are making a difference. The video to the top says it all real well (and in just a nut shell - gotta love that) and we are ALL guilty of doing this in one fashion or another... look at the two parties in our goverment. Some people ALLWAYS think thier parties are ALLWAYS right and the other one is why we are having our problems. No bill is perfict - neither is a party. Environmental people are not our problem (I know I'm one) - just the ones who don't know what they are talking about and they seem to all ways make a lot of noise. None of us use jetdry in the rivers - why - because we ALL care about our environment.

I all so have to say thank you to everyone on here - turns out most prospectors I know are very smart informed people. I have learned a few things from a few posts on here. Lets keep our fingers crossed and hope Arnold vetoes this bill, because I think it will make it to his desk. How a bill like this with NO PROOF makes it this far - is REALLY scary.

TANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR FACTS ON THIS SUBJECT - PLEASE KEEP IT UP - NOW - NEXT YEAR - AND UNTIL MOST PEOPLE KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT WE DO AND HOW WE HELP EVERYONE IN OUR COMMUNITIES, AND THE RIVERS WE LOVE SO MUCH !!!

Fight the lies, misinformation, and spin... not the people.

Once again thank you EVERYONE who takes the time to help and to even those who feel we do damage and hate us --- please find the time to open your minds and do a little bit of nonbias research - we all could do a little bit more of that :-)
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