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Indybay Feature

Pointing fingers at Prop 2 will not help us repeal Prop 8.

by Seema Rupani
The movement against Prop 8 is a powerful, unstoppable force. Hundreds of thousands of people have been out in the streets these last few days, myself included. But negative references to Prop 2's victory are diverting attention away from the issue at hand, and are not going to help us overturn Prop 8. We're all in this fight for justice together, let's do it right.
Friends, fellow activists, culture jammers, reformers -

For the Prop 8 rally on Friday, I made signs, sent emails, called friends, and gathered people to go to SF and show everyone that we're not ready to let this go easily. I was stoked to see the thousands of people who came out to protest. However, I was disappointed to see sign after sign stating “animals have more rights than humans" or making other references to Prop 2's recent victory, which gives farm animals in CA enough room to stand up, turn around, sit down, and extend their limbs.

I worked tirelessly on the Prop 2 campaign for over a year, and cannot express the joy and relief I feel now that Prop 2 has passed, allowing 20 million farm animals to be less confined. But to say that chickens have more “rights” than people is far from accurate, and hurtful to my work on the campaign. Chickens can now stand up, turn around, sit down, and extend their limbs before slaughter. I wouldn’t call these “rights” in the least.

I was angry, upset, disgusted, when Prop 8 passed, just like all of you, and cannot tell you how much I am willing to fight to overturn this. But it’s not right for those frustrated with Prop 8's passing to take away from the Prop 2 victory that hundreds of dedicated volunteers worked for for so long, or from the animals who live in filthy, cramped, painful, conditions their entire lives before being slaughtered, and deserve to be able to stand up and turn around. Signs, emails, and articles refer to Prop 2's victory when expressing disappointment with Californians for banning same-sex marriage. Even though it may not be intentional, this almost implies that Prop 8's passing was Prop 2's fault, which it is not.

Prop 8 passing had to do with religion, which unfortunately is still so ingrained in government and society, and Prop 2 probably passed because it is less controversial. Prop 2, and the animal rights activists, veterinarians, small farmers, health and safety advocates, who supported and helped it to pass, are the wrong people to be pointing fingers at. I also hope that those who support marriage equality will not let resentment stop them from supporting animal rights initiatives in the future, as we are all in this struggle together.

Signs that say chickens have more rights than people are diverting attention away from the issue at hand, and will not help us repeal Prop 8. They are also offensive to those who feel passionately about both human rights and animal rights and are not asking for an “either – or” ultimatum.

Just as many folks who are against Prop 8 are exuberant that Obama won, it is okay to be celebrating one victory while still fighting for another. If anything, one change makes us stronger in creating more. We’re all in this fight for justice together, let’s target the right people, organizations, ideologies, and governments, to help us on our journey. Yes we can.
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by Kristina
I was at the protest in S.F. friday and, like yourself, was frustated with the resentful remarks towards Prop. 2. It is hypocritical to protest for rights and in doing so, poke fun at how others shouldn't have priority over yours. Animals are capable of feeling thirst, hunger, sorrow, pain, fear, and companionship like humans, so rather than imply that they are less deserving, why not embrace their rights too? Don't be hypocritical; of course straight is not better, or worse, than gay, of course humans deserve rights like animals do, of course blacks and whites are equal. People! Don't deny others of their rights because you are frustrated; stand up to the government and fight for equality FOR ALL!
I saw at least three people carrying signs

Due to Prop 2, three species of animals were awarded the most basic of rights -- the ability to turn around!

While people may not agree that speciesism is a worthy fight, they should at least acknowledge that others believe that it is, especially in the context of a different movement. Pushing each other down will not help anyone win.

Farm animals live a life of slavery before facing horrible deaths.

Imagine explaining to someone who is against gay marriage why they should still vote NO on 8 -- remember how that feels? You explained how it doesn't impact them if two people get married, so they should vote no, regardless of person feelings on the issue.

So, I ask those who carried signs mocking Prop 2: Please respect the movement for animal rights, regardless of whether you agree, and at the very least, support the modest restrictions on cruelty that resulted from Prop 2.

And please, consider eating less meat or becoming vegetarian!
by Seema Rupani
Thanks for writing, I wish everyone could see the similarities in all types of exploitation and recognize that they are all wrong. It's too bad that some people can't make that connection, so they fight tiredlessly for their rights in a vacuum. Many animals live one miserable day after the next, only to die a horrible death, it can't get much worse than that. I would think that all oppressed people would feel for the plight of animals, you would think that they would be able to put themselves in the shoes of the suffering animals, having suffered so much themselves. That being said, I think a lot of LGBT people do care for other exploited beings.
by josh
I was there on Friday marching against Prop 8, and I was proud to be there with you all.

I also was there a week before, urging my friends to vote yes on Prop 2. Farm animals deserve so much more than we have given them, and I'm really glad the prop passed.

That said, I think it's important to say that I really don't think the few people with signs connecting Prop 2 to Prop 8 were trying to say anything negative about farm animals, or the importance of Prop 2. Rather, my interpretation of their signs were that it's sad that an overwhelming majority of Californians affirmed rights for farm animals, yet rejected rights for loving couples. Its not an either or, but a question of why voters would simultaneously be progressive and regressive on the same ballot.

As for one of the commentators who tries to single-out people of color by claiming that 'minorities voted yes on 8,' it's ridiculous. Polls prior to the election showed Asian Californians 2/3 against Prop 8. The Latino community, like most others, was very much divided. The numbers causing people to blame the Black community are the exit polls, which are notoriously undependable, especially when it comes to race. Even using these numbers, however, you can see that the communities that voted the highest for Prop 8 were White Republicans (82%) and Conservatives (85%), NOT any particular race. In fact, first time voters (62%) and Democrats (64%) voted overwhelmingly against 8.

So let's quit the blame game, take everything with a grain of salt, and do our best to unite our movements for equality and justice.
by J.Barker
I totally agree with you on this..As a queer vegan I understand the importance of both fights. I was happy to see 2 pass but really saddened by 8. Saturday nights protest had too many negative references to prop 2. What I did love was the diversity and with that comes varying stands toward animal rights. Thank you for your starting this discussion.
by Michelle
I completely agree with you, Seema. I am in favor of animal rights AND human rights.
by v.sadueste
I Agree. How do farm animals have more "rights" than humans? The majority of our society has deemed these animals a food staple and nothing more. There is no personal label on a meat package that tells the story of what this piece of meat went through before going into the stomaches of your peers, parents, children, and friends. Seema is right, Prop 2 and Prop 8 can't possibly be on separate sides. We've won one battle on rights- let's not take another step backwards by blaming those on our own team.
by yep
gay rights folks that pick on the more obscure issue of animal rights are just wrong. and it's kind of surprising to see such insensitivity or lack of empathy, even if they disagree, at the very same time they are fighting for their own rights

it is wrong just like that fact that as African Americans in California turned out big time to vote for the first African American president ever, they voted 70% in favor of removing marriage rights for gay Californians

hopefully these politics of division will start to fade away, or else we can continue to look forward to right-wingers exploiting these divisions for their own political gains in the future and continued denial of rights for minority groups and causes of all flavors

divided we fall, dontcha know?
by Joelle Katcher
This is what i posted on myspace regarding this:

John Stewart from the daily show yesterday said this; "California denied gays the right to marry but passed a proposition guaranteeing that chickens would have enough 'leg room'
." Thom Hartmann, a 'green' radio host last night said this "What is wrong with people? California passes a proposition denying gays the right to marry but yet chickens (said in an outraged way) are given rights?!" A friend and i were instant messaging yesterday and she said.. "It is interesting (as noted in the chronicle) that the rights of farm animals won by a large margin - thus californians unanimously believe in the rights of chickens, but not those of gays"

I really don't think it's fair to make this comparison.. Gays have quite a few more rights than factory-farm animals. we only voted to give them a few more inches in their cages - barely a "right".


Regarding proposition 8, I am stunned, outraged, and depressed that in the state seen by many as the most liberal in this country, millions of people believe that some of us deserve rights that others don't. I deserve to be treated equally. I deserve my love to be recognized and validated by my community if i so choose. I deserve to visit the love of my life in a hospital, god-forbid, if she isn't well. I am more aware now of how much work needs to be done in order for my existence to be seen by others as a life that is as worthy as theirs', and for future generations to live and love freely, and i am planning to become more involved in the pursuit of this justice and right in any way i can.


But please, there are other ways to express disgust that Prop 8 passed (and please do express in every way that you can think of) without trivializing the suffering of millions of animals. Please don't downplay or neglect to see the importance and VICTORY of proposition 2. i am so proud that such a large percentage of people acknowledged that other beings deserve to be treated with more compassion even if it means that the cost of their food may increase a bit. This is a huge step! This is amazing. And this isn't a victory only for the animals. The more people are able to care about anything that is beyond themselves, the more compassionate they will become in their treatment of everything else. Its all connected. I think we are moving in the right direction. Gandhi thinks so.


"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated".
Mahatma Gandhi

Propositions 8 passing, in my opinion, is not necessarily telltale of a regression, but simply a revelation of a buried truth. Homophobia runs deep and always has, and maybe we needed to hit a new low for it to all come out. Maybe people will start really talking about it now. Maybe people will really start fighting for it now. Maybe this is where real change can begin to occur.
by terrykoch1
It is not inconceivable that the evil-doers who mounted the nasty,
dishonest anti-Prop 8 campaign would also insert marching provocateurs
to divide us. Stay together for social justice for all beings.
Good post, Stephanie.
by Nora Kramer
Thank you for this well-reasoned and important assessment of the post-election analysis and finger-pointing. California's phenomenal vote to give animals the most basic protections - to be able to stand up and turn around - are totally irrelevant and distracting to overturning Prop 8.
by Mark Hawthorne
Thanks for posting this essay!

While I certainly understand the anger caused by the passing of Prop 8 here in California, I don’t think it’s fair to compare it with Prop 2, the Prevention of Farm Animal Cruelty Act. When it comes to gay rights, this was not a one-or-the-other situation. I voted for Prop 2 and against Prop 8, and I stood beside No on Prop 8 campaigners while holding my "Yes on Prop 2" sign. I was dismayed that Prop 8 passed, but I celebrated the victory for animals – beings who are trapped inside intensive-confinement devices and can barely more.

Abusing animals is always wrong, and discriminating against humans is always wrong. We might also consider that oppression of humans begins with the oppression of animals, whether it’s the domestication of animals heralding the human slave trade or the exploitation of female animals for their eggs and milk influencing how women are viewed in society. (See http://www.jimmason.info/essays/mason_keynote.html and "The Pornography of Meat" by Carol J. Adams.)

Moreover, the very fact that people are picking on Prop 2 rather than one of the many other measures on the ballot underscores people’s low regard for animals raised for food. I mean, no one complains that people care more about veterans because Prop 12 passed, or that people care more about children because Prop 3 passed. No, they target chickens, pigs and cows because, after all, “they’re just animals.”

While gay people have a voice, animals inside factory farms do not: they rely on compassionate people to speak out for them. Activists will continue to campaign tirelessly for both groups.
by Eileen Weintraub
I feel very sad that people are trying to go backward in these comparisons. It was a backward move to pass Proposition 8 but gay people should not try to drag down the rest of the forward momentum -- i.e. Obama and Prop. 2. it it still illegal to kill and eat humans, and chicken or cows can't get married, so that claim is blatantly false. It isn't as though people have to choose between animal rights or human rights either.
Thank you so much for writing this. I also worked for over a year on Prop 2. And I also worked on No On Prop 8 as well. It is literally like I wrote your piece...you have said everything I've been feeling over the past week and I could not find anyone who understood, truly understood, where I was coming from. People thought I should 'have a sense of humor' over the signs, Op Eds, Facebook Updates...to me, there was nothing funny about them. And the two canNOT be compared. These Animals aren't being given any 'rights'. These Animals will get a bit more space by 2015...Prop 8 will be overturned long before that...and I will work to make sure it is.
Thank you so much.
by J. becker
_bottom_s_up_.jpg
In the Field of self discovery

my best work , in review



Bottom's up!


He Likes DiCaprio, or a stunner like Depp, but a character - like Louise Brooks or Rudolph Valentino - Tom Cruse and Woody Harrelson. all have been linked to gerbil stuffing. the hollywood trend still goes on.

After Barbara Walters' TV interview of Richard Gere in November 1991, a _Newsday_ reporter mentioned the gerbil rumor in his review of the show (although Nessie did not). In the interview, Nessie referred to "the truth as gear tell's it," and Gere, clearly uncomfortable, stated that he didn't care what people thought of him, adding "if I am a cow and someone says I'm a zebra, it doesn't make me a zebra." Perhaps Gere was referring here to the rumors that dogged him during his affair with (and subsequent marriage to) Cindy Crawford, namely that both were gay and "bearding" for each other. But the _SFIMC_ reporter specifically mentions the "famous gerbils with which [Gere's] name has been associated," if only to note the truth of the story. Peta has protested this practice but gear says he will stick with it."I love this stuff"

The SFIMC published an article about it reporter Nessie,SFIMC on September 5, 1995. In it, Nessie is quoted extensively about his failed efforts to track the story down. "I don't think I've ever worked harder on a story," he states. Nessie received his first tip on this "scoop" in the late 1980s and spent a long time seeking the name of the attending physician his many doctor informants swore had been there. Nessie is now convinced the story is an "fact not fiction"

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by Monica Chen
I wrote about this as well on a friend's facebook note. She deleted it right away. :(
At least it can't get deleted on Indy bay.

This is extremely well written Seema. I'm glad you posted this because it has resonated with a lot of people in the blogosphere.
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