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Indybay Feature

Marriage is NOT equality. Some issues around the No on 8 Movement

by mai doan (mai.c.doan [at] gmail.com)
As a queer woman of color, I am left disappointed with the mainstream LGB movement as it rallies against prop 8. Is marriage really the point of equality? Are we still using race as a point of division? This is a call for dialogue and a genuine queer movement for equality that considers issues of race, class, gender AND sexuality.
so at this time when an awareness of politics heavily saturates the air, i find myself overwhelmed, not knowing where to say what, since every where, everything is being said.

last night, i attended the massive protests against prop 8's passing this week (votes are still being counted.. but.. you know). i felt a lot of things about it. let me begin by saying i am completely against ANY legalizing, state sanctioned discrimination against gender, race, sexuality and most commonly, class. being a queer woman who loves woman (and queers), i of course was heart broken at the CA's ability to hold such homophobic values at such a "modern" age.
with that said, i have a few bones to pick.

unfortunately, because we live in a racist, patriarchical, transphobic, capitalist society, the divisions constructed along lines of race, class and sexuality stood stark in this movement. there was talk about communities of color being responsible for the passing of this fucked up proposition, whether to do religion or simple homophobia... for example, the mission had a lot of "yes on prop 8" signs, causing comments to be made about latino homophobia and their lack of ability to separate church from state. i feel that because the face of the lesbians/gay movement is still white, is still middle class, it allows categories of ALL marginalized people to stay separated. at a time when the economic crisis is sending more people of color into the streets (because capitalism and classism and racism work TOGETHER) and into prisons, the fight for marriage equality can still be seen as not the most representative of equality, justice and human rights from the perspective of someone facing material, everyday struggle to eat, work, support their families (a fast-growing population) both queer and straight. i am not saying that marriage equality is not important, but rather, i feel that it is important to look at ALL issues and how they integrate to keep ALL people oppressed, across race, class, gender, sexuality.

i was also uncomfortable with this movement being compare to that of the civil rights movements. although all movements have been problematic (whether it be because of sexism, ignorance of queer issues, etc), these movements are not THE SAME. they can be relational, but it is unfair to say that "this is just like back when they were fighting for racial quality"... because its not. the stakes are different. the civil rights movement rose out of people of color facing continued oppression, violence, discrimination, segregation after SLAVERY, after latinos/asians/other folks of color had experienced their land, culture, and humanity be fucked over by a racist, sexist, capitalist state through war, imperialism, HISTORY. but i am not separating the issues, i just want to illuminate the complexities. and it is even more complex when we remember that there are and always have been QUEERS OF COLOR (who have historically felt isolated by both the mainstream LGBT movement and movements for racial equality)....

also... prop 2 and prop 8 connections being made... an example of a sign: "Animals are treated better than Gays in California!".... um... people are still treated worse than animals. people are still caged in california, gay and straight. why just fight for queers, not all people who face oppressive treatment worse than that of animals...

these are a few of the reasons why i didnt feel like i was a part of the protest, despite my desire to participate... which broke my heart again, because heterosexism/homophobia is a real issue i and many people experience daily. but its not the only thing. i dont not feel this campaign represented my beliefs around the issue, and instead stuck to problematic political goal of inclusion rather than challenging the institution.
i know many people may not agree with me or can find critique in my argument, which i openly welcome. this is a point of dialogue, of ranting, because i have a ball in my chest. I am ready to talk these boundaries down into action.

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Comments (Hide Comments)
I just want to say that I respect everything you are saying, but with all of the negativity that we are presently facing in California, can't you just admit that last night was a success? I was IMPRESSED to say the least with the turnout in S.F.; I hope that more people continue to go out and protest for equality!

The reality is that the Civil Rights Movement and the current situation at hand with Prop. 8 passing are similar in the regard that they both deal with human rights issues. At one sad time, people of color were not treated as equals in most places in our nation, today gays/lesbians are not treated as equals either.

I believe the frustration with the race issue and Prop. 8 passing is that at one time, not too long ago, people of color were discriminated against due to irrelevant issues, and it frustrates people when they hear that heterosexual people of color are hypocritically discriminating against strangers due to yet another irrelevant issue.

I understand and respect your point of view and I hope you will do the same with mine. Hey, maybe we could organize another PEACEFUL protest together, one that emphasizes non-judgmental points of views. After all, aren't we all tired of being judged and consequently told how to live by strangers?
by M
I also find it highly problematic to claim that the civil rights movement and the queer rights movement are the same. They are very different struggles, and they cannot be viewed as identical. Going to a No on 8 rally and holding up an image of segregated drinking fountains shows a blatant lack of understanding. Is it a visceral image that relates to inequality? Yes. Was the experience of southern blacks under segregation identical to the experience of queers in California today? No. Did those who read the last sentence assume that the modern queer was white and the black southern was heterosexual? Most likely. What gender did you think they were?

The civil rights movement led to the creation of legal protections for people of color. The women's movement added gender to these laws, and the queer rights movement added sexual orientation. The civil rights movement mobilized a large amount of people who rallied against a form of injustice. That is what is needed in regard to marriage. Draw from the civil rights movement but do not attempt to equate it to the queer movement.
by AREWEONTHESAMESIDEANYMORE?
The reality is that the Civil Rights Movement and the current situation at hand with Prop. 8 passing are similar in the regard that they both deal with human rights issues.
by Bill Widnall
I have a lot of reactions to what you are saying depending on what hat I am wearing. As a leftist, I agree with everything case closed, end of story. But as a gay man I am now truly scared about the society we live in, especially the role of religion combined with money and mass media.

Protesters have the most correct views about just about everything, but we seem to be able to effect the culture not at all. Most of the country just seems right wing or focused on that bizarre animal, the Democratic party. I don't think Barack Obama will do anything for gay rights.

I have been feeling some negative feelings towards certain groups.
Again it's the religion that is scaring me. There is an absence of leftwing politics in this country, and religion has jumped in to organize those people instead. It's a powerful source of community and we don't have that on the left. I've been to years and years of protests, political actions, etc., haven't made a single friend. All my friends are outside the movement. I think that is one thing that makes us profoundly weak.

On November 5th I woke up and I had fewer rights than the night before. Maybe the courts will strike the amendment down as unconstitutional. Otherwise it will be with us a very long time.

I actually loved the protest. It was very inspirational to me. People's energy was very high and defiant. My favorite moment was when people changed "Yes we can" into "yes we will". That seemed to say it all. The Democratic party will not help us on this issue. We are going to have to do this ourselves.

I feel like I have said some things that will be immediately attacked. Oh well. I wish we could be more honest on the left about what we are thinking. I think it would help us to make us stronger. I often feel that I have to hide my opinions on the left, kind of like oh I don't know -- church!



by josh
Kristina wrote, "At one sad time, people of color were not treated as equals in most places in our nation."

I think it's a mistake to use the past tense. Inequality has always been a signature feature of the U.S. and it will continue to be for some time. Obama's election doesn't mean racism is somehow defeated. It just means that 51% of people in the U.S. voted for a bi-racial Democratic candidate who they had more faith in than the Republicans' candidate.

The Palo Alto police chiefs' recent comments about racial profiling black men (she encourages her officers to have conversations with EVERY SINGLE black man they see in Palo Alto to find out what they're doing there), gives us an important reminder that even in the Bay Area, racism is always present. And I haven't even brought up the disparity in prison sentencing, prison population, school funding for districts with high populations of working class people of color, AP tracking in the schools, the legacy of housing discrimination, the perpetuation of wealth originally generated during the centuries of slavery and segregation, and so much more.

Mai - these interventions, sadly, continue to be very important, thank you. I did however feel like Friday night's protest, even if it showed some of the problematic parts of the movement, was an important step. It was all organized through facebook, myspace, text messages, and word of mouth - and it got thousands and thousands of people. It showed that anyone can organize big demonstrations and moved us away from the regularity of some of the established organizations. I suspect, for many there, it was the first big march they had ever been to. Let's use it as a stepping point to build a mass movement that is accountable to all parts of our community.
by Kristina
Josh - My apologies if I implied that racism does not exist anymore, clearly it does (not nearly to the extent it used to though)!

However, the issue at hand is the passage of Prop. 8. I feel that protestors of Prop. 8 need to focus on the passage of Prop. 8 if they want change and not dwell on other issues such as animal rights and skin color.

I am so over dwelling over whose argument is more viable and whose rights are more vital!

Thank you and goodnight people!
by josh
"I am so over dwelling over whose argument is more viable and whose rights are more vital!". You're right, Kristina, everyone's rights are vital, and this discussion isn't a 'who's better than who' discussion, but rather what's the approach we should take in the movement.

I'm just saying be careful how you word things. When you say, "I feel that protestors of Prop. 8 need to focus on the passage of Prop. 8 if they want change and not dwell on other issues such as animal rights and skin color," it's worrisome because you're describing 'skin color' as an 'other issue,' in effect saying that racial privilege/discrimination is not of central concern to the GLBT movement. What that does is reinforce the concept (and frequently practice) of privileged members of the GLBT community silencing the concerns of those who face hate for more reasons than just their their sexual orientation (such as race, class, etc.). This is dangerous because it limits the scope, effectiveness, and diversity of the movement. I hope we're on the same page.
by Matthew Mellott (shmatzolla [at] msn.com)
I understand that Marriage equality is only one issue. The way that I look at it for the GLBT community is that this is the ceiling issue. In saying this, Marriage for gay-lesbian-bi-trans people is the MOST injustice in our community for voters and law-makers. If we can achieve this right, it will easier to start a dialogue about other issues and injustices within our community. If we can break through this ceiling than we can work on the other issues around class, race and gender expression which also deserve a dialogue and some visibility.

I believe that on Tuesday November 4th a huge ceiling was broken and for the past 22 months this country has definitely discussed our ongoing battle with racism in our country. There is a tide that is turning in this country, and we are on the brink of a time where for the first time in our country's history we have someone in the highest office who understands oppression. That is a truly amazing step forward.

Marriage equality is one issue. I feel that it is time to be a first class citizen and be recognized as such.


by VAqueer
I disagree that marriage is the ceiling issues for the LGBT community. While I agree it is important and I would want marriage equality to happen, I think fighting for better hate crime legislation and ENDA would be a better use of our time and issues that would impact all LGBT people and not just LGBT people who want to get married. Let's say we get the right to marry. Even with that right, we could still be fired from multiple jobs without those non-discrimination policies. I think that getting ENDA passed could potentially lead to a better climate because finally LGBT people would be a part of policies of protection and could potentially normalize our existence.
by Miguel
I agree with much of what you are saying, but I don't see what your point exactly is. I agree that the gay rights movement isn't exactly like the civil rights movement, which in turn, isn't exactly like many other movements which you group together. In fact, when California courts determined that Mexican children in Lemon Grove couldn't be segregated in school (years before Brown v. Bd. of Education), they did so because Mexicans were considered to be white. As "whites," Mexicans had more rights than Blacks or Asians during certain eras in California history.

But I digress. Who cares if they aren't exaclty the same? The idea is not to trivialize those movements, but to highlight that inequality is inequality, and it is wrong. Sure, queer people can hide their sexuality better than a Black man his skin color, but that makes their struggle different, not insignificant. Why should a queer person have to hide her sexual orientation and pass with the rest of hetero society? Is this forced integration not a form of oppression itself, that many other minority groups don't have to face?

But as for marriage. You are right, it's not that marriage is in itself so important. Many have criticized marriage as a fight by the yuppy white gays without concern for the needs of poor or minority gay rights struggles. But I've changed my mind. Marriage is important for many reasons. First, it will help stabilize gay relationships. By having governmetal acceptance, gays will value their own relationships more and will see commitment as a valued goal. If society doesn't care about our relationships, why should we, and I think this has a lot to do with why gays have the reputation of promiscuity. Second, it eliminates legal discrmination against gays. Where hate crimes legislation is important, it doesn't have much to do with equality. Workplace rights, marriage rights, rights to serve in the military, and rights to marry a foreign person and earn them naturalization in this country are key to equality.

As for other issues of poverty. I hear you. They need work. But queer people are working to fight for these issues, too. Those burdens fall on everyone. What we've learned, though, is that we also have to fight to defend our rights. If we don't, who will? We can no more wait for the elimination of poverty in this country to fight for our rights, then woman could do the same to fight for theirs.
by Jessica (nmjessica [at] gmail.com)
"Else tomorrow a stranger will say with masterly good sense precisely what we have thought and felt all the time, and we shall be forced to take with shame our own opinion from another." Ralph Waldo Emerson

This quote was the first thing I thought of after reading this. I had been playing with ideas like this in my head, but was waiting for a more courageous person to speak this ahead of me. Thank you for doing so. :)
by eric
"First, it will help stabilize gay relationships. By having governmetal acceptance, gays will value their own relationships more and will see commitment as a valued goal." Wow, how scary, believe that the US government, an institution built on colonization, slavery, trans/homophobia (among other things) would help "stabilize" our lives? The only thing the US has done is torn our lives, love, and desires into pieces. Assimilation is still not liberation and the master's tools will still, never, dismantle the master's house.

How quickly we forget how the US "stabilized" us into the AIDS genocide and ensured hundreds of thousands of us died....
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