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Indybay Feature

Fresno Says: Vote No on Proposition 8

by Mike Rhodes (mikerhodes [at] comcast.net)
A large and enthusiastic crowd showed up today at Shaw and Blackstone avenues in Fresno for a rally in support of marriage equality and against proposition 8.
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Fresno Says: Vote No on Proposition 8
By Mike Rhodes

A rally was held today in Fresno to oppose proposition 8. Between 200 - 300 supporters of marriage equality showed up at Blackstone and Shaw (one of the busiest street corners in Fresno) to hold signs and encourage those driving by to vote no on proposition 8. All four corners were packed with people and the crosswalks filled up every time the signal changed.

On Sunday, October 26 at 4 PM supporters of proposition 8 will rally at City Hall. Pastor Jim Franklin, of Cornerstone Church, wrote: “we NEED YOU and your SPOUSE (if you're married, if not we still NEED you to come) - to join us, as we stand up for traditional marriage. It's one thing to proclaim it in a sanctuary, but it's much more impacting to take it to the streets and that's
what we're doing. I want to not only ask you to join me and Cyndi, but also to get your friends and family to join us, as well. Think about the statement we will make when hundreds or thousands of couples stand together on the steps of City Hall. Will you join us? It won't take long. Mayor Autry will be joining us and we will SHOW our values and impact our city.” It is unknown whether counter-protestors will attend the Sunday event.

Next Sunday, November 2 from 2 - 4 PM, faith communities will speak out in opposition to proposition 8. This event will be held at Fresno City Hall Plaza 2600 Fresno Street in downtown Fresno. The featured speaker will be Father Geoff Farrow. Earlier this month, Father Farrow ( http://fathergeofffarrow.blogspot.com/ ), came out publicly against Proposition 8. For this courageous act, he was suspended as a priest and removed as pastor at the Saint Paul Newman Center . For more information on the November 2 event, call (559) 862-4559.

The local No on Proposition 8 campaign asks you to call them at (559) 862-4559 if you can help distribute door hangers. The campaign’s website is at http://www.noonprop8.com/ . Here is what they say about proposition 8:

Proposition 8 puts discrimination into our Constitution. It would inject government into private lives. It undermines equal protections under our laws.

Here's what's fiction and what's fact:

Fiction: Prop 8 doesn't discriminate against gays.
Fact: Prop 8 is simple: it eliminates the rights for same-sex couples to marry. Prop 8 would deny equal protections and write discrimination against one group of people—lesbian and gay people - into our state constitution.

Fiction: Teaching children about same-sex marriage will happen here unless we pass Prop 8.
Fact: Not one word in Prop 8 mentions education, and no child can be forced, against the will of their parents, to be taught anything about health and family issues at school. California law prohibits it, and the Yes on 8 campaign knows they are lying. Sacramento Superior Court Judge Timothy Frawley has already ruled that this claim by Prop 8 proponents is "false and misleading." The Orange County Register, traditionally one of the most conservative newspapers in the state, says this claim is false. So do lawyers for the California Department of Education.


Fiction: Churches could lose their tax-exemption status.
Fact: Nothing in Prop 8 would force churches to do anything. In fact, the court decision regarding marriage specifically says "no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs."

Fiction: A Massachusetts case about a parent's objection to the school curriculum will happen here.
Fact: Unlike Massachusetts, California gives parents an absolute right to remove their kids and opt-out of teaching on health and family instruction they don't agree with. The opponents know that California law already covers this and Prop 8 won't affect it, so they bring up an irrelevant case in Massachusetts.

Fiction: Four Activist Judges in San Francisco…
Fact: Prop 8 is not about courts and judges, it's about eliminating a fundamental right. Judges didn't grant the right, the constitution guarantees the right. Proponents of Prop 8 use an outdated and stale argument that judges aren't supposed to protect rights and freedoms. This campaign is about whether Californians, right now, in 2008 are willing to amend the constitution for the sole purpose of eliminating a fundamental right for one group of citizens.

Fiction: People can be sued over personal beliefs.
Fact: California's laws already prohibit discrimination against anyone based on race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. This has nothing to do with marriage.

Fiction: Pepperdine University supports the Yes on 8 campaign.
Fact: The university has publicly disassociated itself from Professor Richard Peterson of Pepperdine University, who is featured in the ad, and has asked to not be identified in the Yes on 8 advertisements.

Fiction: Unless Prop 8 passes, CA parents won't have the right to object to what their children are taught in school.
Fact: California law clearly gives parents and guardians broad authority to remove their children from any health instruction if it conflicts with their religious beliefs or moral convictions. Regardless of how you feel about the issue, we should not eliminate fundamental rights for ANY Californians.

Please vote NO on Prop 8.
§Over 200 People!
by Mike Rhodes
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Over 200 people showed up to support marriage equality and to ask their friends and neighbors to vote no on proposition 8.
§Shaw and Blackstone in Fresno
by Mike Rhodes
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Supporters of marriage equality went from corner to corner. All four corners were full of people.
§Another Photo of the Crowd
by Mike Rhodes
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§Everyone Was Having a Good Time
by Mike Rhodes
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All photos by Mike Rhodes
Add Your Comments

Comments (Hide Comments)
by Daniel
There are huge civil rights at stake here. What about freedom of speach? What about freedom of religion?

Don't give me the same old arguments the no campaign resorts to. I'd like seriously, one time, for the no campaign to respond to what will happen when gays, who want to advance their agenda, complain to the state of "discrimination" when a church chooses not to marry them. As a protected class, they will have recourse to the government, and when the gov steps in, that is not, as the no ad says, keeping government out of all our lives.

Don't even try to tell me this won't happen. And don't try to say I'm scared. I'm not scared, I'm aware of how things work.

I await legitimate responses,

Daniel
by Greg
I was at the Protest. AMAZING. We had a great amount of people, we can fight this! NO ON 8.
by Rich
Thank you for fighting to defend our civil rights.

Pastor Jim Franklin, of Cornerstone Church should be ashamed of himself. He feeds and clothes the very poor then takes advantage of there ignorance on the subject.





by Brad
Absolutely amazing, Fresno - those pictures of people fighting for equality and justice literally brought tears to my eyes. What a great crowd of supportive, loving people and families - it definitely rivals the gatherings we've had in San Francisco this week. I have volunteered for Prop 8 these last 3 weekends, and I am overjoyed that people are coming together across this great state to keep us moving forward. Make no mistake about it - Prop 8 would be a major step backwards into the darkness of discrimination, inequality, and lack of civil rights.

The notion of taking rights away from a group of people can only be described as insane, and I truly believe the true voices of fair and just Californians will be heard come November 4th.
by Aaron Hixson
It is nice to see the people in Fresno get involved when they feel passionate about something. I personally am a strong supporter of Proposition 8 an hope it passes. I don't believe this is the civil rights issue that some people make it out to be.
by Jenny
Supporters of Prop 8 want their consensual relationships with another adult to be named and recognized differently by the government than my consensual relationship with another adult. That's as textbook civil rights issue as you can find.

The Bay Area and L.A. will predictably come out in full force to reject this misguided attempt to "ballot measure" the love person feel for each other, but will it be enough? The visibility and turnout in places like Fresno, while perhaps not a majority, could very well be the nail that seals Prop 8's coffin. Fresno says NO!
by Elizabeth
I was at the rally it was a great turn out! (i'm the one in the wedding dress) I hope this helps to save mine and my wifes marriage it was 7 years in the waiting for us to get married its scary that it can be take away by peoples votes..
by Daniel Becker
at least make it legal for some churches to marry them. proposition 8 is gonna take this right away from every church.
by Daniel B. is confused
If you are married in a church it is NOT a legal marriage until the papers are filed with the state. Ministers are merely people who are recognized by the state as having the right to rubber stamp a marriage certificate. No big deal! Almost anyone can get get permit to do the same thing a religious leader does. Many folks now days are registered with the state to be "officiates".

It is only because of tradition that some people are married in a church. Of course there is such a thing as 'being married in the eyes of the church' but that has nothing whatsoever to do with state sanctioned marriage.

The Yes on Prop 8 people are playing into folks' ignorance of the facts. In fact, earlier in their campaign they advertised that if prop 8 didn't pass churches would be "required" to marry gay people. Ludicrous!

Around 6 o'clock, several Yes On Prop 8 supporters showed up at the rally. According to rally organizers, a women started talking to people, telling them they were wrong. The Yes on 8 supporters got out onto the roadway, trying to block No supporters. After they were askd to get out of the street, they started pushing people. One person used a Yes On Prop 8 sign to hit at least two people. Organizers say criminal charges will be pressed.
by cp
Thanks for showing up, everyone. So many of us are really overdosed on electoral politics right now, but don't let a perception that Obama might be a shoe-in as a signal to decrease efforts. Remember that McCain was 5 pts ahead last month, and there are lots of these local issues to raise awareness about. The farm animal proposition could really be pioneering for the country.
by Richard
Daniel- Your question and diatribe are almost impossible to answer. It's like asking "what is the capital of France...and don't you dare tell me it's Paris..liars". I'll try answering you concerns..whether yo believe them or not is up to you, but they are the truth.

The court decision regarding marriage specifically says "no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs." Period. No law suits if a church refuses to marry anyone they don't want to. A Catholic church doesn't have to marry a Jewish couple. A Jewish synagogue is under no obligation to marry a Baptist couple, and so on. By the same token, no church is forced to marry a same sex couple.

You state: "There are huge civil rights at stake here. What about freedom of speach? What about freedom of religion?" I agree, there are HUGE civil rights at stake here. Mainly the right of sames sex couples to be married and treated equally under the law. "What about freedom of 'speach' " Well what about it? This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. If you want to get up a a pulpit on a Sunday morning and start screaming about the evil fags of awful Jews or whatever your bigoted mind conjures up, be my guest. You have that right. Freedom of speech doesn't stop because two people of the same sex get married. "What about freedom of religion?" Once again, what about it? Churches have no obligation to perform any marriages they don't want to.
by RedCountyMom
Daniel, relax - no one wants to be married by a faith community that doesn't support their union.
As for sueing a church for refusing to marry same sex couples. Churches and faith communities refuse to marry people and/or perform other religous ceremonies all the time because of a conflict between the indivuals and the faith traditions of the church.
My husband and I married thirty four years ago, I was Roman Catholic, he was Episcopal and we were married in the Big Red Church (Congregational).
Two years later I approached my priest near the end of my first pregnancy and inquired about my child's batism. Father Chuck told me the church didn't recognize my marriage because it was not performed in a Catholic Church & therefore he could not perform the baptismal. To be told my child was a bastard in the eyes of my faith community is one of the most painful and enlightening experience's of my life. However, because my marriage did not conform to the tenets of my religion, the church had the right to refuse to recognize it and my child. I had no right to litigation - but did have the right to find a faith tradition that more accurately reflected my values and beliefs. Now - many years later we found it a blessing to be told our child was a bastard because we found a Christian faith community that opened their arms to us and our children. Gay and Lesbian couples will face the same challenges that my husband and I did and they too will find affirming faith communities to be married in, and involved with. There is this "thing" called separation of church and state. Something people like you and far-right extremists tend to forget.
May you be blessed with a more compassionate heart and remember to ask yourself "What would Jesus do?" He would accept and love all who come to him.
by Elizabeth
i seen the older yes on 8 man hitting people with his sign! and pushing them out of the way! one of those people was my friend then i seen that same guy on the chan 30 news yes on 8 rally today.. he needs to get whats coming to him... this was to be a peaceful rally and he came spewing his words of hate
by Mike Rhodes
The Yes on 8 folks had a rally at Fresno City Hall on Sunday. This is a link to the 4:46 video showing you what they were talking about at that event:
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/10/27/18546908.php
by ann
what a huge crowd ! thanks so much for taking so many pictures Mike.
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