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Indybay Feature
KPFA & the Tree Sitters
It takes weeks to get an announcement on KPFA--too slow
KPFA POLICY FAILURES
Ted Vincent
November 23, 2007
KPFA fails the public in a major way by its restrictive policy on announcement of demonstrations. As Henry Norr pointed out in the November 20 Planet, you must send your announcement weeks in advance. Any morning now, Bush could invade Iran, and KPFA would be loath to interrupt "Music of the World" to announce the noon rally.
Every day the KPFA policy fails the Tree-Sitters in the Memorial Oak Grove. The cops take actions against the Sitters on very little notice. The Sitters need to rally supporters quickly to come to the trees. Presently, the Sitters use a phone list. How much more efficient, and politically educational, it would be if KPFA could give the word. But without long prior notice, KPFA rules ensure it proceeds with regular programming.
For more information:
http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/article...
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been trying to get the tree-sitters and ground crew to set up a blog/twitter acct. hasn't happened yet. i can do everything except provide data from what's happening on the ground. if anyone wants to help, just contact me.
The tree sitters are ridiculous, self-indulgent, and politically irrelevant. Their "struggle" is laughable from the point of view of liberating humanity from the shackles of imperialist capitalism. The people cannot be rallied to the cause of a few trees in a parking lot, nor should they be, while the real left is attempting to mobilize (against all odds) a movement against the bloody imperialist occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Imagine all the trees (and people too, if you like) that have been destroyed by the US military forces in Bagdad alone and you can see the problem out Berkeley tree activists. It's as reformist as Arbor Day.
Imagine all the trees (and people too, if you like) that have been destroyed by the US military forces in Bagdad alone and you can see the problem out Berkeley tree activists. It's as reformist as Arbor Day.
They are ridiculous, ey? And what do you do?
Our Leftist Critic is probably sitting in an armchair somewhere, drinking beer and feeling self righteous.
Sorry to bust your vision of me, but I am a committed activist, often on the streets, and at nearly every antiwar demonstration for the last five sorry years, plus many others.
I'm committed to social liberation including environmental justice. But I view the tree sitters as misguided.... these aren't old growth redwoods in a pristine forest. These are trees no one cared much about planted by UCB and by one its parking lots.
The treesitters are a sideshow in zoo of the politically irrelevant moralizers more impressed by their guilt than their being able to think through a political strategy.
I'm committed to social liberation including environmental justice. But I view the tree sitters as misguided.... these aren't old growth redwoods in a pristine forest. These are trees no one cared much about planted by UCB and by one its parking lots.
The treesitters are a sideshow in zoo of the politically irrelevant moralizers more impressed by their guilt than their being able to think through a political strategy.
Contesting power on University campuses regarding decisionmaking about land use seems like a pretty reasonable way of engaging imperialist capitalism. Who, pray tell, are the "real left" mr. critic?
It's good to have people working in different ways.
We are engaged by different issues, work in different areas.
I have done direct actions against invasion & occupation,
and I also love native oaks & other plants.
Why criticize others' activism?
Why not respect differences, work in your way, educate in a positive way,
support your buddies, work against & condemn the exploiters, not the goodhearted defenders of life.
We are engaged by different issues, work in different areas.
I have done direct actions against invasion & occupation,
and I also love native oaks & other plants.
Why criticize others' activism?
Why not respect differences, work in your way, educate in a positive way,
support your buddies, work against & condemn the exploiters, not the goodhearted defenders of life.
This "leftist critic" sounds like a phony baloney friend, if not a member, of the UC Berkeley administration, or the football racket, ad nauseum. The beautiful trees are not on a parking lot and it would not matter if they were; they are holding the hill in place; they are an integral part of the environment; UC is violating all kinds of laws by attempting to destroy them; UC students have more than enough venues for sports; UC students are there for an education, not to play as academics come first at UC and should at all schools; like all stadium swindles this is just another palm-greasing scheme for the construction company cronies of the UC Regents and the sports rackets, football being a big money-making racket in and of itself. Education is a primary issue for the Left, as is putting people before profits and putting an end to palm-greasing rackets. Most importantly, every radical understands that ALL POLITICS ARE LOCAL. The problems of US imperialism start right here and it is right here in the belly of the beast where we, and only we, can make a difference.
Moving to the subject of the original article, we do need to hear news on the Oak Grove controversy daily on KPFA and we do need to build support. One obvious need is to have those who filed the lawsuits against UC get an injunction (or a repeal of UC's obviously unconstitutional injunction) to stop the obviously illegal practices of UC targetting for arrest anyone who even says hello to the tree sitters , much less anyone who gives them food. Saving the Oak Grove is a great issue for everyone as it will restore public power over a major educational institution if we defeat the UC Regents on this issue and stop the privatization of our schools. To those who have filed the lawsuits, do not settle for anything less than saving the entire Oak Grove. Remember, the UC Regents most likely cannot find a jury in Alameda County that will sympathize with them, and that is why they are trying to expedite cutting down the trees before there is a jury trial. And the more KPFA publicizes the Oak Grove controversy, the more sympathetic potential jurors the supporters of these beautiful trees will have.
Moving to the subject of the original article, we do need to hear news on the Oak Grove controversy daily on KPFA and we do need to build support. One obvious need is to have those who filed the lawsuits against UC get an injunction (or a repeal of UC's obviously unconstitutional injunction) to stop the obviously illegal practices of UC targetting for arrest anyone who even says hello to the tree sitters , much less anyone who gives them food. Saving the Oak Grove is a great issue for everyone as it will restore public power over a major educational institution if we defeat the UC Regents on this issue and stop the privatization of our schools. To those who have filed the lawsuits, do not settle for anything less than saving the entire Oak Grove. Remember, the UC Regents most likely cannot find a jury in Alameda County that will sympathize with them, and that is why they are trying to expedite cutting down the trees before there is a jury trial. And the more KPFA publicizes the Oak Grove controversy, the more sympathetic potential jurors the supporters of these beautiful trees will have.
I am not associated with the "UC Berkeley administration, or the football racket, ad nauseum"
But if we on the left don't actually attempt to think through the potential and actuality of our political actions, we are doomed never to have actually accomplished much. The tree sitters have irritated me pretty much since day one. I thought I would share my consternation. This is a forum for commentary on news subjects posted.
As for "all politics are local" that's only part of the truth. The struggle over the trees isn't about US imperialism, its really far fetched to assert that there is a direct connection between the occupation of Iraq and the exisistance of these trees.
Some local activities appear to be a confrontation with the status quo, but are really just an activity like spinning one's wheels. Politics is supposed to inform, motivate and organize people. Left politics are supposed to mobilize to make a confrontation with the state that will draw more people in. The tree sitting activity doesn't amount to that.
As for the comments on sports, etc. Sports are part of education as well, in fact one famous Carribbean Marxist (CLR James) called Football the ballet of the workers. (He was referring to 'soccer'), which is no less a big business than US football. As for crooked construction projects, it can be argued that all major civil, university, and private construction is crooked, involves pay backs, etc.
To Mara, I'd agree that a lot of work needs to be done. How do we prioritize our political efforts? If we don't critique each others ideas, we will not progress.
But if we on the left don't actually attempt to think through the potential and actuality of our political actions, we are doomed never to have actually accomplished much. The tree sitters have irritated me pretty much since day one. I thought I would share my consternation. This is a forum for commentary on news subjects posted.
As for "all politics are local" that's only part of the truth. The struggle over the trees isn't about US imperialism, its really far fetched to assert that there is a direct connection between the occupation of Iraq and the exisistance of these trees.
Some local activities appear to be a confrontation with the status quo, but are really just an activity like spinning one's wheels. Politics is supposed to inform, motivate and organize people. Left politics are supposed to mobilize to make a confrontation with the state that will draw more people in. The tree sitting activity doesn't amount to that.
As for the comments on sports, etc. Sports are part of education as well, in fact one famous Carribbean Marxist (CLR James) called Football the ballet of the workers. (He was referring to 'soccer'), which is no less a big business than US football. As for crooked construction projects, it can be argued that all major civil, university, and private construction is crooked, involves pay backs, etc.
To Mara, I'd agree that a lot of work needs to be done. How do we prioritize our political efforts? If we don't critique each others ideas, we will not progress.
The so called "leftists" obviously is lacking any serious education about the effort to privatize UC
and the role of UC Regents Chair Blum and the regents in supporting militarism. Either this "leftist"
is ignorant or simply doing damage control for UC anti-labor, privateers and the KPFA management.
Blum who by the way is a war profiteer who actually benefits on contracts that his wife Feinstein votes for.
The following is an article about the efforts of Blum and the regents to further privatize the university.
Isn't it intereting that KPFA which is based in Berkeley can't seem to do any serious programming on
the role of these privateers and war mongers?
SFGate
Higher pay = higher costs: UC regents raise salaries, student fees
Charles Burress, Chronicle Staff Writer
Friday, September 21, 2007
(09-20) 19:27 PDT Davis -- The UC regents voted Thursday to award
substantial pay raises to faculty and to sharply increase the fees
students pay at the university's law, medical and other professional
schools.
In the more controversial of the two actions, the regents' decision to
raise professional school fees would result, in some cases, in
significant differences in the amounts charged at each campus, with some
costing more than $40,000 a year.
Critics said a public university shouldn't be too expensive for the poor
and middle-class and that the 10-campus system would foster an
undesirable hierarchy with some campuses being viewed as superior to
others.
Supporters argued that UC's nearly three dozen professional schools, in
the face of declining state financial support, desperately need to boost
income to maintain quality and attract top faculty and that increased
financial aid would be offered for those who cannot afford the cost.
The plan passed on a 13-5 vote by the regents at their meeting at UC Davis.
The fee hikes - ranging from about 4 percent to 15 percent each of the
next three years - will see the biggest rise at UC Berkeley's Boalt
School of Law, where total annual fees would rise to $40,906 in 2010-11
from $26,897 this year. In 2001-02, the school charged $11,175, meaning
the cost will have risen 266 percent in nine years.
Berkeley's Haas School of Business would see a similar rise to $40,882
in 2010-11, compared with UC Davis' business school, which would cost
$30,975 in the same year.
"This is not an affordable education for the majority of people UC must
serve," said Regent Eddie Island, who argued that the increased
financial aid was inadequate. He said the purpose of UC as a public
land-grant institution was to make high-quality education attainable by
even the least-advantaged classes of society. "That was our original
mission and we've gotten away from that."
Board Chairman Richard Blum countered that the schools face losing their
best faculty without further funding, noting that the Haas school lost
10 of its 13 accounting professors in just one year.
Regent Peter Preuss said, "If we don't act, our quality will go down."
Regents voting against the measure were Island, Benjamin Allen, Odessa
Johnson, Frederick Ruiz and Lt. Gov. John Garamendi.
On the other side of the ledger, in response to alarms over the loss of
underpaid professors, the regents also approved hefty salary raises for
a substantial portion of the faculty with an intent to push academic
compensation to market levels within only four years.
"The faculty is the University of California's most valuable resource,"
UC Provost Rory Hume told the regents.
The increases, however, are premised on increased funds, including
promised money from the state next year that appears threatened by
shrinking state revenues.
Under new salaries due to take effect Oct. 1, an instructor's yearly
salary "scale" could rise to $53,200 from a base salary of $48,200 a
year ago, while a full professor at the highest rank would be placed at
a $164,700 "scale," up from a base salary of $154,800 in October 2006.
These figures, however, do not represent the actual increases since each
individual's raise will depend on how far he or she lags behind the
market, UC officials said.
The raises are designed to boost overall salaries, bring more equity to
faculty pay and make more actual salaries consistent with the official
scale. Only 16 percent of actual salaries now match the scale, UC
officials said. At the end of four years, 61 percent would be paid at
scale under the new measure.
The plan would cost about $52.7 million in the first year, of which $7.5
million would have to be raised from as yet unknown sources. In the
succeeding three years, an additional $20 million each year would need
to be raised, according to Katherine Lapp, UC executive vice president
for business operations.
Funding for the salary boost is expected to come in part from promised
increases in state funding, but regents Blum and John Moores cautioned
that a significant drop in taxes paid on capital gains could imperil the
university's revenue projections.
UCSF Professor Mary Croughan, vice chair of the university-wide Academic
Senate, noted that the salary boost means that some better-paid
professors are sacrificing raises in order to help lower-paid colleagues
receive more. The cost-of-living increase will be only 2.5 percent
instead of 4.5 percent or 5 percent, she said. In addition to
cost-of-living increases, professors with sub-market salaries also will
be eligible for market-adjustment raises.
INSIDE
UC regents voted to allow researchers to continue to accept grants from
the tobacco industry after a heated debate. B9
E-mail Charles Burress at cburress [at] sfchronicle.com
.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/09/21/BA31S9QU3.DTL
and the role of UC Regents Chair Blum and the regents in supporting militarism. Either this "leftist"
is ignorant or simply doing damage control for UC anti-labor, privateers and the KPFA management.
Blum who by the way is a war profiteer who actually benefits on contracts that his wife Feinstein votes for.
The following is an article about the efforts of Blum and the regents to further privatize the university.
Isn't it intereting that KPFA which is based in Berkeley can't seem to do any serious programming on
the role of these privateers and war mongers?
SFGate
Higher pay = higher costs: UC regents raise salaries, student fees
Charles Burress, Chronicle Staff Writer
Friday, September 21, 2007
(09-20) 19:27 PDT Davis -- The UC regents voted Thursday to award
substantial pay raises to faculty and to sharply increase the fees
students pay at the university's law, medical and other professional
schools.
In the more controversial of the two actions, the regents' decision to
raise professional school fees would result, in some cases, in
significant differences in the amounts charged at each campus, with some
costing more than $40,000 a year.
Critics said a public university shouldn't be too expensive for the poor
and middle-class and that the 10-campus system would foster an
undesirable hierarchy with some campuses being viewed as superior to
others.
Supporters argued that UC's nearly three dozen professional schools, in
the face of declining state financial support, desperately need to boost
income to maintain quality and attract top faculty and that increased
financial aid would be offered for those who cannot afford the cost.
The plan passed on a 13-5 vote by the regents at their meeting at UC Davis.
The fee hikes - ranging from about 4 percent to 15 percent each of the
next three years - will see the biggest rise at UC Berkeley's Boalt
School of Law, where total annual fees would rise to $40,906 in 2010-11
from $26,897 this year. In 2001-02, the school charged $11,175, meaning
the cost will have risen 266 percent in nine years.
Berkeley's Haas School of Business would see a similar rise to $40,882
in 2010-11, compared with UC Davis' business school, which would cost
$30,975 in the same year.
"This is not an affordable education for the majority of people UC must
serve," said Regent Eddie Island, who argued that the increased
financial aid was inadequate. He said the purpose of UC as a public
land-grant institution was to make high-quality education attainable by
even the least-advantaged classes of society. "That was our original
mission and we've gotten away from that."
Board Chairman Richard Blum countered that the schools face losing their
best faculty without further funding, noting that the Haas school lost
10 of its 13 accounting professors in just one year.
Regent Peter Preuss said, "If we don't act, our quality will go down."
Regents voting against the measure were Island, Benjamin Allen, Odessa
Johnson, Frederick Ruiz and Lt. Gov. John Garamendi.
On the other side of the ledger, in response to alarms over the loss of
underpaid professors, the regents also approved hefty salary raises for
a substantial portion of the faculty with an intent to push academic
compensation to market levels within only four years.
"The faculty is the University of California's most valuable resource,"
UC Provost Rory Hume told the regents.
The increases, however, are premised on increased funds, including
promised money from the state next year that appears threatened by
shrinking state revenues.
Under new salaries due to take effect Oct. 1, an instructor's yearly
salary "scale" could rise to $53,200 from a base salary of $48,200 a
year ago, while a full professor at the highest rank would be placed at
a $164,700 "scale," up from a base salary of $154,800 in October 2006.
These figures, however, do not represent the actual increases since each
individual's raise will depend on how far he or she lags behind the
market, UC officials said.
The raises are designed to boost overall salaries, bring more equity to
faculty pay and make more actual salaries consistent with the official
scale. Only 16 percent of actual salaries now match the scale, UC
officials said. At the end of four years, 61 percent would be paid at
scale under the new measure.
The plan would cost about $52.7 million in the first year, of which $7.5
million would have to be raised from as yet unknown sources. In the
succeeding three years, an additional $20 million each year would need
to be raised, according to Katherine Lapp, UC executive vice president
for business operations.
Funding for the salary boost is expected to come in part from promised
increases in state funding, but regents Blum and John Moores cautioned
that a significant drop in taxes paid on capital gains could imperil the
university's revenue projections.
UCSF Professor Mary Croughan, vice chair of the university-wide Academic
Senate, noted that the salary boost means that some better-paid
professors are sacrificing raises in order to help lower-paid colleagues
receive more. The cost-of-living increase will be only 2.5 percent
instead of 4.5 percent or 5 percent, she said. In addition to
cost-of-living increases, professors with sub-market salaries also will
be eligible for market-adjustment raises.
INSIDE
UC regents voted to allow researchers to continue to accept grants from
the tobacco industry after a heated debate. B9
E-mail Charles Burress at cburress [at] sfchronicle.com
.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/09/21/BA31S9QU3.DTL
Well this thread is really descending to showmanship and slander, and a condescending tone.
My comments were criticisms about the treesitters. "Get Some Education" (GSE) takes legitimate criticism and then accuses me of not being morally indignant over privatization and the antilabor policies of UCB. It's a case of bait and switch frankly; GSE fails to explore or answer any of my left criticisms of treesitting campaign. In the process GSE avoids the original intent of the thread, criticizing KPFA for lack of coverage of the treesitters. I think the treesitters are a dead end cause based on moralism, not a rational and measured strategy. If I were to take on the KPFA reactionary policies of not announcing protests, I certainly wouldn't start with a cause that is laughable and marginal.
It is easy slander on an anonymous forum to bait other discussants with descriptions like "simply doing damage control for UC anti-labor, privateers and the KPFA management." I will state here that I am not now nor have I ever been an agent, paid or unpaid, of either UC or KPFA. Such accusations are shrill and are the the political method of small minds.
My comments were criticisms about the treesitters. "Get Some Education" (GSE) takes legitimate criticism and then accuses me of not being morally indignant over privatization and the antilabor policies of UCB. It's a case of bait and switch frankly; GSE fails to explore or answer any of my left criticisms of treesitting campaign. In the process GSE avoids the original intent of the thread, criticizing KPFA for lack of coverage of the treesitters. I think the treesitters are a dead end cause based on moralism, not a rational and measured strategy. If I were to take on the KPFA reactionary policies of not announcing protests, I certainly wouldn't start with a cause that is laughable and marginal.
It is easy slander on an anonymous forum to bait other discussants with descriptions like "simply doing damage control for UC anti-labor, privateers and the KPFA management." I will state here that I am not now nor have I ever been an agent, paid or unpaid, of either UC or KPFA. Such accusations are shrill and are the the political method of small minds.
The anonoymous "leftist Critic" makes some middle class snide attack on activists who want UC to stop destroying the trees for their
corporate development plans and then complains that he is being attacked unfairly by an anonoymous blogger. Get
real. You need to wake up and face the music. The struggle against the UC corporateers includes
those who are trying to stop UC development and yes this is connected fighting the agenda of the UC regents. The fact
of the matter is that the privatization of UC and the developers drive is not a serious part of what
KPFA is covering. People like "environmental reporter" Brian E-T and others probably agree with you that these are not real
environmental issues and that is why it is not getting serious coverage.
http://www.mercurynews.com/letters/ci_7265588?nclick_check=1
UC on the road to privatization
San Jose Mercury News
Article Launched:10/24/2007 02:14:37 AM PDT
UC on the road
to privatization
I was surprised to read that University of California President Robert Dynes (Page 1A, Oct. 22) told the Mercury News, "Until I stop breathing, I will fight (privatization). The central heart and soul of the university is its support from the state of California. That has to remain."
It was Dynes, after all, who quietly committed UC to privatization in May 2004 by means of the "compact" with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger agreeing to massive cuts in UC's core academic budget (about 25 percent, $1 billion each), to increasing student fees twice as fast as inflation, and "to seek additional private resources . . . to support basic programs" in the words of the official compact. In return, he won the promise of modest future increases in state support (on the reduced base). The result has been declining quality for our students at higher prices and business "partnerships" that will require transferring state money and student fees to subsidize them. Despite radically reducing the opportunities available to California families, the compact was not discussed by the UC Regents, California State University Trustees, Legislature or public before it was signed. It is time for that public discussion.
Stanton A. Glantz
Professor of Medicine UC-San Francisco Past chair, UC Committee on Planning and Budget
o "Get Some Education"
by Leftist Critic
Wednesday Nov 28th, 2007 3:26 PM
Well this thread is really descending to showmanship and slander, and a condescending tone.
My comments were criticisms about the treesitters. "Get Some Education" (GSE) takes legitimate criticism and then accuses me of not being morally indignant over privatization and the antilabor policies of UCB. It's a case of bait and switch frankly; GSE fails to explore or answer any of my left criticisms of treesitting campaign. In the process GSE avoids the original intent of the thread, criticizing KPFA for lack of coverage of the treesitters. I think the treesitters are a dead end cause based on moralism, not a rational and measured strategy. If I were to take on the KPFA reactionary policies of not announcing protests, I certainly wouldn't start with a cause that is laughable and marginal.
It is easy slander on an anonymous forum to bait other discussants with descriptions like "simply doing damage control for UC anti-labor, privateers and the KPFA management." I will state here that I am not now nor have I ever been an agent, paid or unpaid, of either UC or KPFA. Such accusations are shrill and are the the political method of small minds.
corporate development plans and then complains that he is being attacked unfairly by an anonoymous blogger. Get
real. You need to wake up and face the music. The struggle against the UC corporateers includes
those who are trying to stop UC development and yes this is connected fighting the agenda of the UC regents. The fact
of the matter is that the privatization of UC and the developers drive is not a serious part of what
KPFA is covering. People like "environmental reporter" Brian E-T and others probably agree with you that these are not real
environmental issues and that is why it is not getting serious coverage.
http://www.mercurynews.com/letters/ci_7265588?nclick_check=1
UC on the road to privatization
San Jose Mercury News
Article Launched:10/24/2007 02:14:37 AM PDT
UC on the road
to privatization
I was surprised to read that University of California President Robert Dynes (Page 1A, Oct. 22) told the Mercury News, "Until I stop breathing, I will fight (privatization). The central heart and soul of the university is its support from the state of California. That has to remain."
It was Dynes, after all, who quietly committed UC to privatization in May 2004 by means of the "compact" with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger agreeing to massive cuts in UC's core academic budget (about 25 percent, $1 billion each), to increasing student fees twice as fast as inflation, and "to seek additional private resources . . . to support basic programs" in the words of the official compact. In return, he won the promise of modest future increases in state support (on the reduced base). The result has been declining quality for our students at higher prices and business "partnerships" that will require transferring state money and student fees to subsidize them. Despite radically reducing the opportunities available to California families, the compact was not discussed by the UC Regents, California State University Trustees, Legislature or public before it was signed. It is time for that public discussion.
Stanton A. Glantz
Professor of Medicine UC-San Francisco Past chair, UC Committee on Planning and Budget
o "Get Some Education"
by Leftist Critic
Wednesday Nov 28th, 2007 3:26 PM
Well this thread is really descending to showmanship and slander, and a condescending tone.
My comments were criticisms about the treesitters. "Get Some Education" (GSE) takes legitimate criticism and then accuses me of not being morally indignant over privatization and the antilabor policies of UCB. It's a case of bait and switch frankly; GSE fails to explore or answer any of my left criticisms of treesitting campaign. In the process GSE avoids the original intent of the thread, criticizing KPFA for lack of coverage of the treesitters. I think the treesitters are a dead end cause based on moralism, not a rational and measured strategy. If I were to take on the KPFA reactionary policies of not announcing protests, I certainly wouldn't start with a cause that is laughable and marginal.
It is easy slander on an anonymous forum to bait other discussants with descriptions like "simply doing damage control for UC anti-labor, privateers and the KPFA management." I will state here that I am not now nor have I ever been an agent, paid or unpaid, of either UC or KPFA. Such accusations are shrill and are the the political method of small minds.
QUOTES OF THE INEPT...
an historical collection of nessie-isoms
science is "always" correct
by nessie Wednesday, Dec. 08, 2004 at 6:18 PM
science is "always" correct - "but not now", or ever, in the present tense, in some final or absolute sense of the word "always" - a nessie-isom if I ahve ever heard one
the scientific method takes wrong turns all the time, from questionable project design, to lame-brained dead-ends that never should have been funded, to seriously ethical deficiencies, but because it's labelled research, you swallow it up and trumpet your FAITH that one day Science will Conquer All in your vain desire to life forever (why are you so afraid to die? what will become of the earth as we all live forever and continue to consume and breed and increase our numbers? I suppose you also have Faith that Science will get us out of that jam too)
but remember...science is "always" correct
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
well well well
by Nessie Wednesday, Dec. 15, 2004 at 8:57 PM
goody, i've made an enemy
i only wish s/he was more mentally dexterous. it's funner that way.
"har har har, you don't have originality in your head."
you're right, many of my thoughts are not wholly original.
case in point: you're an idiot.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
we report the events and statements of today with honesty and truth. we do not edit, exclude,rewrite or alter in any way the posts to this IMC. anything less would be contemptable! --nessie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I'm looking for the finest things in life, and that extends to my love of women - NESSIE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The newswire does not "champion free speech."
by Nessie Friday January 30, 2004 at 09:55 AM
Don't confuse this place with usenet. Indymedia exists to provide an alternative to the ubiquitous propaganda mill of the corporate-government complex.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you don't like our editorial policy, go somewhere else.
by nessie Monday January 26, 2004 at 11:10 AM
Try SFBay. They don't seem to mind racist spam, reposts from Playboy and idle speculation as to which local politicians most enjoy fisting. Or maybe you'd prefer Portland-IMC, where hearsay is given equal rank with verified facts. There are dozens and dozens of IMC around the globe. Go find one you like, and hang out there.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shut the hell up!
nessie
you people have no idea of what you are talking about! you do not know us or what is going on here
we are not going to allow our selves to be judged by YOU. you have no idea of what I have to put up with! or what goes on in this office. who are you to pass judgment on our IMC. if it was not for us you would have never had the chance to have a voice of your own. Indy bay have tried to steal our operation and your support leads me to believe that you where in on it. this is not your business
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This time I’ll answer you, because
by nessie Monday June 9, 2004 at 11:48 PM
I personally think you are rude, vain, arrogant and stupid.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
pointer
If you feign respect, you’re a hypocrite. I’m not a hypocrite. I tell the truth and let the chips fall where they my. The truth is you’re an *sshole. Only an *sshole would want someone I love to die so a g*dd*mn pig can live. That’s what you want. Ergo, you’re an *sshole. F*ck off and die, you vile, despicable scum. - nessie on animal experimentations
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http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/10/1534699_comment.php#1708732
Who you gonna call? Not my dog. He’s the wrong guy for the job. He doesn’t even have a prefrontal lobe. He thinks “yadda yadda” means the same thing as “blah, blah, blah.” He can count to, oh, maybe five or seven.-
NESSIE
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. - nessie June 16, 2004 at 11:48 PM
That is not acceptable behavior, whatever your motive is. It’s not safe, either. Keep that crap up, and you’re going to get killed. If you creepy crawl my house like that, I’ll kill you myself. That’s a promise. I’ll blow off your head with a 12 guage. I’ll beat it in court, too. I won’t even go to trial. I’ll walk at the first hearing. Mine is not an extreme position, not in the least. It’s normal. More people feel this way about stalkers than don’t, at least in this country. A lot of them can back it up, too
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by Critical Thinker Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 08:50 AM
nessie is an authoritarian who is most unpleasant to work with and had managed to eject most other members, who broke away and formed Indybay. Thus, he has succeeded in surrounding himself with a small bunch of weak yesmen technocrats. He's the only person who has any journalist credentials in his collective, however flimsy.
He would and has banned some people from SF-IMC for spamming, yet he finds no problem to spam other IMCs. Sometimes I wish other edirtors weren't more tolerant to spam than he.
Furthermore, nessie has defined racism as per his whims and banned any person who had made comments even remotely defensive of any Israeli action or policy.
I think the nessie problem is a grave symptom of a malady that afflicts Indymedia as a whole. They can't revoke his editorial privileges since, and their inability symbolizes, in my opinion, the problem of Indys credibility as a whole in the eyes of the general public.
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This is an outrage.
by nessie Friday, Nov. 26, 2004 at 10:20 AM
Van-IMC should not be allowed to be part of the IMC network. They shame us all.It's an opinion, but it's not just mine.
It's also a fact. Just because something is an opinion, does not mean that it is not also a fact. It is a fact that Van-IMC shames us all. It is my opinion that we should act accordingly.
Global Justice Movement / aka Skull & Bones
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F*ck you very much (etc.)
by nessie Saturday, Jun. 2, 2004 at 2:47 AM
I can’t “remain” respectful, because I wasn’t respectful to begin with. I have no respect for you whatsoever, not even a little, and I have no intention of lying about it. Why should I lie? I’m a journalist. Credibility is my stock in trade. If I got caught lying, my credibility would evaporate like dew in the morning sun. And what would I get in return? You being happy? Sorry, it’s not a fair trade.
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" 'until you do as much as X, your comments mean nothing'"
by one of the editors Wednesday, Jan. 26, 2005 at 6:41 PM
That's another straw man. That makes two. Third strike, you're out of here. We don’t intend to waste any bandwidth on non constructive bullsh*t. This place is for constructive discussions. If you want to engage is puerile mental masturbation, go to Indybay. They don't seem to mind stuff like that. Here, it is considered disruptive. We don’t allow disruptive behavior. It alienates the very people we wish most to attract.
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"insensative"
by nessie Wednesday, Jun. 23, 2004 at 5:38 AM
We let you post your insane crap here and we don't censor people who object. If you think that's insensitive, you're an *sshole.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
by nessie Monday, Jan. 10, 2005 at 1:29 PM
I'm not misleading people. I'm making an educated guess. That's the best anyone can do. We simply don't know for sure. Reporting is too inadequate to make that determination with anything approaching accuracy. So what? We simply don't know
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"caring"
by nessie Wednesday, Apr. 13, 2005 at 12:23 AM
Caring isn't enough. Neither is talk. Actions speak louder than words.
So act. I do. You can, too. And i don't mean march in another useless parade. I mean actually accomplish something that lasts. It can be done.
. It was a heck of a lot more useful thing to do than to protest. The protests, you may recall, were a complete failure. They had no influence on the war at all, not even a little one. They used up a tremendous amount of time and energy, but accomplished nothing.
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We, the editors, are fed up
by One of the editors Friday February 13, 2004 at 01:59 AM
We, the editors, are fed up with people reminding us that we let contributors use this website as a soapbox to spew anti-Jew racism, which we mostly allow, yet we ban all other forms of racism. We’re not going to change our minds.
>My article does not question your editorial policy
You're right. But we’re fed up to here with people reminding us that we let other contributors use this site as a soapbox to spew anti-Jew racism while banning all other forms of racism. We’re not going to change our minds. Today alone there were 300+ of these things, specifically aimed at Gilad’s article. I hid them all. If tomorrow there are 3000, I’ll hide them, too.
Yours just happened to be a long one, that’s all. No, Gilad is *not* an anti-Semite, he's an Israeli born Jew who peddles anti-Jew racism against his own tribe unabashedly. We the editors support anti-semitism as long as it comes from someone claiming to be Jewish. That allows us to claim to be anti-bigotry, while promoting bigotry. There are precious d*mn few places he can do something like that at all, let alone without being shouted down. This is one. We intend to keep it that way and silence all opposition to our racist practice. Get used to it.
>I belive
Your beliefs do not determine our editorial policy. Our supposed anti-racist beliefs determine our editorial policy. We believe in allowing our time, money, energy, skills and talents to be commandeered to provide a soapbox for people who spout anti-Semitic rhetoric under the guise of anti-Zionism, while not letting anyone call us on our racist hypocricy. We bend over backwards to lie to ourselves and others and say it is not anti-Semitic to accuse Zionists of killing Christ, and we hide behind an excuse that an Israeli born Jew (by birth, at least) wrote the piece. If you want to tell people it is, use your own time, money, energy, skills and talents to do it. In other words, get lost. Ours are not for sale. Neither will we allow them to be commandeered against our racist will.
>everyone has a write to free speech unless you threaten someone.
You have a right to free speech. Yet we bypass your right claiming you do not have a right to supposedly commandeer our time, money, energy, skills and talents to broadcast it to the world.
Speech is free. This website is too. It costs us a great deal of time, money, energy, skills and talents to remain bigoted only against Jews. We provide for it. We decide how they will be used. Stop trying to talk some sense into us.
>I never said you should hide the first article.
That’s not the issue. The issue is we won't allow you to use our time, money, energy, skills and talents to expose our pretense at being anti-racist as a joke. No, you can’t do that. Take the hint. Go somewhere where you’re welcome.
Don't think you'll succeed in getting us to realize the absurdity in our position by spamming your message ad infinitum.
We the editors feel it is wrong for Jews to have a Jewish homeland. Of course, Jews are a Nation of People with thousands of years of their own unique language, culture and history, and Jews have been subject to 2,000 years of discrimination and have been kicked all around the world, and massacred, and wiped out in massive numbers, but that does not mean Jews have a right to a homeland. Now, Muslims can have all the Muslim states they want, Pakistan can be torn from India for Muslims to have a muslim-supremecist country, Saudia Arabia can be a muslim-supremecist country, Australia can exist for immigrated europeans to rule, America can exist for immigrated europeans to rule, every country can exist, but the tiny Jewish state can not. We are anti-zionism. Israel is wrong, not just for occupation, but for existing. If you ask us why we single Israel out for extermination yet barely utter a word about ending the existence of other countries, and if you ask us why we allow blatant anti-semitism to be promoted as long as the writer is careful to only say "zionist jews" instead of "the jews," we will either censor you, accuse YOU of being a racist, or nit-pick some minor error you made while totally ignoring your main points. And if you point that out, we'll probably hide your post.
That is how we do things, and how dare you come to our website and accuse us of not being fair. We are sf.indymedia.org and we are peace activists.
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The newswire does not "champion free speech."
by one of the editors Friday January 30, 2004 at 09:55 AM
Don't confuse this place with usenet. Indymedia exists to provide an alternative to the ubiquitous propaganda mill of the corporate-government complex. It's fans and lackeys like “Go To” have plenty of places to go read the lies and distortions that support their sick, evil beliefs and vile, despicable forces of darkness that benefit from them.
Speech is free. This website is not. It requires a great deal of time, energy, skills, talent, effort and money, just to exist at all. We who make the place possible refuse to allow our time, energy, skills, talent, effort and money to be hijacked by our enemies and used to provide a soapbox for them to use to promote their evil agendas. To do so would be for us to willingly submit to enslavement.
No, we wont do that.
These miscreants are lucky we let them appear here at all, let alone in a part of the site where the naive might mistake them for us. But do they even thank us? Do they put out the time, energy, skills, talent, effort and money it takes to produce a site of their own? Hardly. Instead, they whine like little children who can’t reach the cookie jar. When that doesn’t work, they throw tantrums. That’s the kind of people they are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the editors "acting for" S/FIMC have abused their authority in the relentless harassment of anyone who doesn't march to their tune.
instead of offering a platform of free speech, you have
chosen to use the tactics of a fascist organization.
you have come to embody the traits of your claimed political enemies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you don't like our editorial policy, go somewhere else.
by nessie Monday January 26, 2004 at 11:10 AM
Try SFBay. They don't seem to mind racist spam, reposts from Playboy and idle speculation as to which local politicians most enjoy fisting. Or maybe you'd prefer Portland-IMC, where hearsay is given equal rank with verified facts. There are dozens and dozens of IMC around the globe. Go find one you like, and hang out there.
If you are not a member of SF-IMC or SFBay, our conflict is:
(1.) beyond your understanding because you don't know all the facts, and
(2.) none of your business. Butt out.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indymedia is a collective of lunatics and fruit cakes that post stories of government conspiracies, alien abductions, big brother delusions and a Hodge podgy of "non-profit mafia types out for a buck while claiming to work for mother earth, fighting repression in far away lands, fighting city programs, business"especially small business" that can't defend them selves, fighting against homeless programs, all for their own profit!
the vast majority are scams for your money!
Indymedia is pretending to be a democratic media outlet for the news but in fact it is dominated by those who refuse to consider freedom of speech
or any point of view other than their own! they violate their mission statement on a daily basis they have no credibility, no dignity, no morals, no ethics
just cheap rhetoric
they refuse to give time to the real issues that are out there. they are in the pockets of the politicians. and as such are not for the people
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that's right,
give em hell
run'em all out !
then when the city is broke (like now) and no one has a job or money then you can snivel that it wasn't your fault! (like now)
you can play that old burnt out hippy nonsense of we can make a living selling sandals at the dead concerts
but with wide spread unemployment who will buy them
congratulations on running another business out of the city you have just lost a few hundred more jobs to somewhere else (too bad you didn't work there)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
censorship worthy of ashcroft!
by allowing nessie to victimize the people of this group you have shown just how fair minded the management of this IMC is to the population it was designed to serve
PORTLAND IS RIGHT!
THE MANAGEMENT OF THIS IMC NEEDS TO RESIGN
AND GO QUIETLY INTO THE SUNSET.
SO THAT A FAIR MINDED AND EQUALITY BIASED
STEWARDSHIP OF THIS WEB SIGHT CAN FINALLY BE BROUGHT INTO BEING!
DEMAND FAIRNESS FROM S/F IMC!
(not that we have the delusion that we will get it!)
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shut the hell up!
nessie
you people have no idea of what you are talking about! you do not know us or what is going on here
we are not going to allow our selves to be judged by YOU. you have no idea of what I have to put up with! or
what goes on in this office. who are you to pass judgment on our IMC. if it was not for us you would have never had the chance to have a voice of your own. Indy bay have tried to steal our operation and your support leads me to believe that you where in on it. this is not your business
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"Great article Nessie!"
by nessie Friday, Apr. 29, 2005 at 6:28 PM
Thanks. I try.
I must say I was put off by the rah-rah U.S.A. atmosphere post-9/11
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enough already
by Nessie Thursday, May. 05, 2005 at 6:16 PM
I don’t want to spend the time looking for a quote. You’ve wasted too much of my time today, anyway, which is exactly the point I’m trying to make.
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non sequitur
by nessie Monday, Mar. 23, 2005 at 5:36 PM
I am not the topic here. Neither is my style, my personality, or anythng else about me so quit your damn complaining or I will ban you from IMC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Nessie Files
August 23, 2000
(snip)
You can, however, improvise some really nifty, really cheap, really effective countersurveillance equipment by adapting stuff that is readily available from hobby shops. One good source of adaptable gizmos is field biology. You've all seen the guy on the nature show trailing the critter with the radio collar. The trouble with tracking political dissidents with radio collars is that they flat-out refuse to wear them. Insects, too, are impossible to track with radio collars, but for a different reason. They are too heavy for the insects to carry. So some clever scientists have adapted harmonic radar to the tracking of bees.
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/1709974_comment.php#1715201
what a moron!
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Failure and diplomacy
by nessie Tuesday, Jun. 14, 2005 at 9:01 AM
Sorry if I didn't put it in the most diplomatic terms, but that's not my job. I am not a diplomat. I'm activist. My job is to tell the truth. The truth of the matter is that I'm fed up to here with people who criticize the actions of others without doing better themselves. Unless and until you are doing a better job than Code Pink, don't criticize them in front of me, because that's bad politics and I'm going to call you on it. (so if you don't do better than BUSH shut up)
I'm also sick and tired of watching activists emulate failures. Situationism failed. For all their typing, the most they manage to produce was a couple nights of rioting. Their contribution to philosophy is unquestioned, but their only lasting contribution to activism was that they inspired the Billboard Liberation Front. BFD.
Activists need to learn from our mistakes and grow up. This doesn't mean we need to discard everything the Suits came up with, far from it. Some of what they came up with is still useful and constructive. That part we should keep. But Situationism itself, we should discard. To do otherwise is self contradictory, for society itself is part of the problem.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EVERY WORD HERE IS A MATTER OF RECORD!
reposted from http://www.transbaynessie.net
an historical collection of nessie-isoms
science is "always" correct
by nessie Wednesday, Dec. 08, 2004 at 6:18 PM
science is "always" correct - "but not now", or ever, in the present tense, in some final or absolute sense of the word "always" - a nessie-isom if I ahve ever heard one
the scientific method takes wrong turns all the time, from questionable project design, to lame-brained dead-ends that never should have been funded, to seriously ethical deficiencies, but because it's labelled research, you swallow it up and trumpet your FAITH that one day Science will Conquer All in your vain desire to life forever (why are you so afraid to die? what will become of the earth as we all live forever and continue to consume and breed and increase our numbers? I suppose you also have Faith that Science will get us out of that jam too)
but remember...science is "always" correct
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well well well
by Nessie Wednesday, Dec. 15, 2004 at 8:57 PM
goody, i've made an enemy
i only wish s/he was more mentally dexterous. it's funner that way.
"har har har, you don't have originality in your head."
you're right, many of my thoughts are not wholly original.
case in point: you're an idiot.
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we report the events and statements of today with honesty and truth. we do not edit, exclude,rewrite or alter in any way the posts to this IMC. anything less would be contemptable! --nessie
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"I'm looking for the finest things in life, and that extends to my love of women - NESSIE
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The newswire does not "champion free speech."
by Nessie Friday January 30, 2004 at 09:55 AM
Don't confuse this place with usenet. Indymedia exists to provide an alternative to the ubiquitous propaganda mill of the corporate-government complex.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you don't like our editorial policy, go somewhere else.
by nessie Monday January 26, 2004 at 11:10 AM
Try SFBay. They don't seem to mind racist spam, reposts from Playboy and idle speculation as to which local politicians most enjoy fisting. Or maybe you'd prefer Portland-IMC, where hearsay is given equal rank with verified facts. There are dozens and dozens of IMC around the globe. Go find one you like, and hang out there.
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shut the hell up!
nessie
you people have no idea of what you are talking about! you do not know us or what is going on here
we are not going to allow our selves to be judged by YOU. you have no idea of what I have to put up with! or what goes on in this office. who are you to pass judgment on our IMC. if it was not for us you would have never had the chance to have a voice of your own. Indy bay have tried to steal our operation and your support leads me to believe that you where in on it. this is not your business
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This time I’ll answer you, because
by nessie Monday June 9, 2004 at 11:48 PM
I personally think you are rude, vain, arrogant and stupid.
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pointer
If you feign respect, you’re a hypocrite. I’m not a hypocrite. I tell the truth and let the chips fall where they my. The truth is you’re an *sshole. Only an *sshole would want someone I love to die so a g*dd*mn pig can live. That’s what you want. Ergo, you’re an *sshole. F*ck off and die, you vile, despicable scum. - nessie on animal experimentations
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/10/1534699_comment.php#1708732
Who you gonna call? Not my dog. He’s the wrong guy for the job. He doesn’t even have a prefrontal lobe. He thinks “yadda yadda” means the same thing as “blah, blah, blah.” He can count to, oh, maybe five or seven.-
NESSIE
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. - nessie June 16, 2004 at 11:48 PM
That is not acceptable behavior, whatever your motive is. It’s not safe, either. Keep that crap up, and you’re going to get killed. If you creepy crawl my house like that, I’ll kill you myself. That’s a promise. I’ll blow off your head with a 12 guage. I’ll beat it in court, too. I won’t even go to trial. I’ll walk at the first hearing. Mine is not an extreme position, not in the least. It’s normal. More people feel this way about stalkers than don’t, at least in this country. A lot of them can back it up, too
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by Critical Thinker Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 08:50 AM
nessie is an authoritarian who is most unpleasant to work with and had managed to eject most other members, who broke away and formed Indybay. Thus, he has succeeded in surrounding himself with a small bunch of weak yesmen technocrats. He's the only person who has any journalist credentials in his collective, however flimsy.
He would and has banned some people from SF-IMC for spamming, yet he finds no problem to spam other IMCs. Sometimes I wish other edirtors weren't more tolerant to spam than he.
Furthermore, nessie has defined racism as per his whims and banned any person who had made comments even remotely defensive of any Israeli action or policy.
I think the nessie problem is a grave symptom of a malady that afflicts Indymedia as a whole. They can't revoke his editorial privileges since, and their inability symbolizes, in my opinion, the problem of Indys credibility as a whole in the eyes of the general public.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is an outrage.
by nessie Friday, Nov. 26, 2004 at 10:20 AM
Van-IMC should not be allowed to be part of the IMC network. They shame us all.It's an opinion, but it's not just mine.
It's also a fact. Just because something is an opinion, does not mean that it is not also a fact. It is a fact that Van-IMC shames us all. It is my opinion that we should act accordingly.
Global Justice Movement / aka Skull & Bones
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F*ck you very much (etc.)
by nessie Saturday, Jun. 2, 2004 at 2:47 AM
I can’t “remain” respectful, because I wasn’t respectful to begin with. I have no respect for you whatsoever, not even a little, and I have no intention of lying about it. Why should I lie? I’m a journalist. Credibility is my stock in trade. If I got caught lying, my credibility would evaporate like dew in the morning sun. And what would I get in return? You being happy? Sorry, it’s not a fair trade.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" 'until you do as much as X, your comments mean nothing'"
by one of the editors Wednesday, Jan. 26, 2005 at 6:41 PM
That's another straw man. That makes two. Third strike, you're out of here. We don’t intend to waste any bandwidth on non constructive bullsh*t. This place is for constructive discussions. If you want to engage is puerile mental masturbation, go to Indybay. They don't seem to mind stuff like that. Here, it is considered disruptive. We don’t allow disruptive behavior. It alienates the very people we wish most to attract.
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"insensative"
by nessie Wednesday, Jun. 23, 2004 at 5:38 AM
We let you post your insane crap here and we don't censor people who object. If you think that's insensitive, you're an *sshole.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
by nessie Monday, Jan. 10, 2005 at 1:29 PM
I'm not misleading people. I'm making an educated guess. That's the best anyone can do. We simply don't know for sure. Reporting is too inadequate to make that determination with anything approaching accuracy. So what? We simply don't know
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"caring"
by nessie Wednesday, Apr. 13, 2005 at 12:23 AM
Caring isn't enough. Neither is talk. Actions speak louder than words.
So act. I do. You can, too. And i don't mean march in another useless parade. I mean actually accomplish something that lasts. It can be done.
. It was a heck of a lot more useful thing to do than to protest. The protests, you may recall, were a complete failure. They had no influence on the war at all, not even a little one. They used up a tremendous amount of time and energy, but accomplished nothing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We, the editors, are fed up
by One of the editors Friday February 13, 2004 at 01:59 AM
We, the editors, are fed up with people reminding us that we let contributors use this website as a soapbox to spew anti-Jew racism, which we mostly allow, yet we ban all other forms of racism. We’re not going to change our minds.
>My article does not question your editorial policy
You're right. But we’re fed up to here with people reminding us that we let other contributors use this site as a soapbox to spew anti-Jew racism while banning all other forms of racism. We’re not going to change our minds. Today alone there were 300+ of these things, specifically aimed at Gilad’s article. I hid them all. If tomorrow there are 3000, I’ll hide them, too.
Yours just happened to be a long one, that’s all. No, Gilad is *not* an anti-Semite, he's an Israeli born Jew who peddles anti-Jew racism against his own tribe unabashedly. We the editors support anti-semitism as long as it comes from someone claiming to be Jewish. That allows us to claim to be anti-bigotry, while promoting bigotry. There are precious d*mn few places he can do something like that at all, let alone without being shouted down. This is one. We intend to keep it that way and silence all opposition to our racist practice. Get used to it.
>I belive
Your beliefs do not determine our editorial policy. Our supposed anti-racist beliefs determine our editorial policy. We believe in allowing our time, money, energy, skills and talents to be commandeered to provide a soapbox for people who spout anti-Semitic rhetoric under the guise of anti-Zionism, while not letting anyone call us on our racist hypocricy. We bend over backwards to lie to ourselves and others and say it is not anti-Semitic to accuse Zionists of killing Christ, and we hide behind an excuse that an Israeli born Jew (by birth, at least) wrote the piece. If you want to tell people it is, use your own time, money, energy, skills and talents to do it. In other words, get lost. Ours are not for sale. Neither will we allow them to be commandeered against our racist will.
>everyone has a write to free speech unless you threaten someone.
You have a right to free speech. Yet we bypass your right claiming you do not have a right to supposedly commandeer our time, money, energy, skills and talents to broadcast it to the world.
Speech is free. This website is too. It costs us a great deal of time, money, energy, skills and talents to remain bigoted only against Jews. We provide for it. We decide how they will be used. Stop trying to talk some sense into us.
>I never said you should hide the first article.
That’s not the issue. The issue is we won't allow you to use our time, money, energy, skills and talents to expose our pretense at being anti-racist as a joke. No, you can’t do that. Take the hint. Go somewhere where you’re welcome.
Don't think you'll succeed in getting us to realize the absurdity in our position by spamming your message ad infinitum.
We the editors feel it is wrong for Jews to have a Jewish homeland. Of course, Jews are a Nation of People with thousands of years of their own unique language, culture and history, and Jews have been subject to 2,000 years of discrimination and have been kicked all around the world, and massacred, and wiped out in massive numbers, but that does not mean Jews have a right to a homeland. Now, Muslims can have all the Muslim states they want, Pakistan can be torn from India for Muslims to have a muslim-supremecist country, Saudia Arabia can be a muslim-supremecist country, Australia can exist for immigrated europeans to rule, America can exist for immigrated europeans to rule, every country can exist, but the tiny Jewish state can not. We are anti-zionism. Israel is wrong, not just for occupation, but for existing. If you ask us why we single Israel out for extermination yet barely utter a word about ending the existence of other countries, and if you ask us why we allow blatant anti-semitism to be promoted as long as the writer is careful to only say "zionist jews" instead of "the jews," we will either censor you, accuse YOU of being a racist, or nit-pick some minor error you made while totally ignoring your main points. And if you point that out, we'll probably hide your post.
That is how we do things, and how dare you come to our website and accuse us of not being fair. We are sf.indymedia.org and we are peace activists.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The newswire does not "champion free speech."
by one of the editors Friday January 30, 2004 at 09:55 AM
Don't confuse this place with usenet. Indymedia exists to provide an alternative to the ubiquitous propaganda mill of the corporate-government complex. It's fans and lackeys like “Go To” have plenty of places to go read the lies and distortions that support their sick, evil beliefs and vile, despicable forces of darkness that benefit from them.
Speech is free. This website is not. It requires a great deal of time, energy, skills, talent, effort and money, just to exist at all. We who make the place possible refuse to allow our time, energy, skills, talent, effort and money to be hijacked by our enemies and used to provide a soapbox for them to use to promote their evil agendas. To do so would be for us to willingly submit to enslavement.
No, we wont do that.
These miscreants are lucky we let them appear here at all, let alone in a part of the site where the naive might mistake them for us. But do they even thank us? Do they put out the time, energy, skills, talent, effort and money it takes to produce a site of their own? Hardly. Instead, they whine like little children who can’t reach the cookie jar. When that doesn’t work, they throw tantrums. That’s the kind of people they are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the editors "acting for" S/FIMC have abused their authority in the relentless harassment of anyone who doesn't march to their tune.
instead of offering a platform of free speech, you have
chosen to use the tactics of a fascist organization.
you have come to embody the traits of your claimed political enemies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you don't like our editorial policy, go somewhere else.
by nessie Monday January 26, 2004 at 11:10 AM
Try SFBay. They don't seem to mind racist spam, reposts from Playboy and idle speculation as to which local politicians most enjoy fisting. Or maybe you'd prefer Portland-IMC, where hearsay is given equal rank with verified facts. There are dozens and dozens of IMC around the globe. Go find one you like, and hang out there.
If you are not a member of SF-IMC or SFBay, our conflict is:
(1.) beyond your understanding because you don't know all the facts, and
(2.) none of your business. Butt out.
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Indymedia is a collective of lunatics and fruit cakes that post stories of government conspiracies, alien abductions, big brother delusions and a Hodge podgy of "non-profit mafia types out for a buck while claiming to work for mother earth, fighting repression in far away lands, fighting city programs, business"especially small business" that can't defend them selves, fighting against homeless programs, all for their own profit!
the vast majority are scams for your money!
Indymedia is pretending to be a democratic media outlet for the news but in fact it is dominated by those who refuse to consider freedom of speech
or any point of view other than their own! they violate their mission statement on a daily basis they have no credibility, no dignity, no morals, no ethics
just cheap rhetoric
they refuse to give time to the real issues that are out there. they are in the pockets of the politicians. and as such are not for the people
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that's right,
give em hell
run'em all out !
then when the city is broke (like now) and no one has a job or money then you can snivel that it wasn't your fault! (like now)
you can play that old burnt out hippy nonsense of we can make a living selling sandals at the dead concerts
but with wide spread unemployment who will buy them
congratulations on running another business out of the city you have just lost a few hundred more jobs to somewhere else (too bad you didn't work there)
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censorship worthy of ashcroft!
by allowing nessie to victimize the people of this group you have shown just how fair minded the management of this IMC is to the population it was designed to serve
PORTLAND IS RIGHT!
THE MANAGEMENT OF THIS IMC NEEDS TO RESIGN
AND GO QUIETLY INTO THE SUNSET.
SO THAT A FAIR MINDED AND EQUALITY BIASED
STEWARDSHIP OF THIS WEB SIGHT CAN FINALLY BE BROUGHT INTO BEING!
DEMAND FAIRNESS FROM S/F IMC!
(not that we have the delusion that we will get it!)
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shut the hell up!
nessie
you people have no idea of what you are talking about! you do not know us or what is going on here
we are not going to allow our selves to be judged by YOU. you have no idea of what I have to put up with! or
what goes on in this office. who are you to pass judgment on our IMC. if it was not for us you would have never had the chance to have a voice of your own. Indy bay have tried to steal our operation and your support leads me to believe that you where in on it. this is not your business
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"Great article Nessie!"
by nessie Friday, Apr. 29, 2005 at 6:28 PM
Thanks. I try.
I must say I was put off by the rah-rah U.S.A. atmosphere post-9/11
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enough already
by Nessie Thursday, May. 05, 2005 at 6:16 PM
I don’t want to spend the time looking for a quote. You’ve wasted too much of my time today, anyway, which is exactly the point I’m trying to make.
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non sequitur
by nessie Monday, Mar. 23, 2005 at 5:36 PM
I am not the topic here. Neither is my style, my personality, or anythng else about me so quit your damn complaining or I will ban you from IMC
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The Nessie Files
August 23, 2000
(snip)
You can, however, improvise some really nifty, really cheap, really effective countersurveillance equipment by adapting stuff that is readily available from hobby shops. One good source of adaptable gizmos is field biology. You've all seen the guy on the nature show trailing the critter with the radio collar. The trouble with tracking political dissidents with radio collars is that they flat-out refuse to wear them. Insects, too, are impossible to track with radio collars, but for a different reason. They are too heavy for the insects to carry. So some clever scientists have adapted harmonic radar to the tracking of bees.
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/1709974_comment.php#1715201
what a moron!
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Failure and diplomacy
by nessie Tuesday, Jun. 14, 2005 at 9:01 AM
Sorry if I didn't put it in the most diplomatic terms, but that's not my job. I am not a diplomat. I'm activist. My job is to tell the truth. The truth of the matter is that I'm fed up to here with people who criticize the actions of others without doing better themselves. Unless and until you are doing a better job than Code Pink, don't criticize them in front of me, because that's bad politics and I'm going to call you on it. (so if you don't do better than BUSH shut up)
I'm also sick and tired of watching activists emulate failures. Situationism failed. For all their typing, the most they manage to produce was a couple nights of rioting. Their contribution to philosophy is unquestioned, but their only lasting contribution to activism was that they inspired the Billboard Liberation Front. BFD.
Activists need to learn from our mistakes and grow up. This doesn't mean we need to discard everything the Suits came up with, far from it. Some of what they came up with is still useful and constructive. That part we should keep. But Situationism itself, we should discard. To do otherwise is self contradictory, for society itself is part of the problem.
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EVERY WORD HERE IS A MATTER OF RECORD!
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