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Indybay Feature

Cyclist killed by truck, Bay St. Santa Cruz

by Christine
8-7-07 A cyclist was run over and killed by a semi-truck turning right onto Bay towards campus from the westward lane of Mission Street.

I was able to take these photos as I encountered this scene on my way to the UC Santa Cruz campus via bicycle, along the Bay Street bicycle lane. Bay street was blocked off and traffic was backed up on Mission. The body had already been removed, but the pool of blood is visible here. One can judge the configuration of the vehicles in the intersection here. The police were marking the scene and taking photos of the front of the Randazzo Co. semi-truck where the cyclist was impacted.
640_truck-blood.jpg
A little bit of analysis of the crash scene, and commentary:

The angle of the bicycle aiming towards Bay street could suggest that the cyclist had been proceeding in the bicycle lane (as I had been) towards campus, which is a very common destination because the campus doesn't have much parking. Bay street is one lane in this section, and the truck could have been making a free right turn, or jumping the gun as the light turned yellow.

Another very realistic consideration is that the cyclist could have been heading along Mission St. towards the service that the campus runs with a free bike shuttle to the top of the hill, which is typically a 30 minute ride. Perhaps the bicycle was dragged the 20 ft onto Bay St. This service runs from Long's drugs half a block from this intersection, and a dozen bicycles can load into the trailer behind a van, and then cruise down the hill at the end of the day. This is a popular option for students who live in the cheaper areas near downtown which is already several miles from campus. Houses adjacent to campus are largely expensive single-family homes and the city rarely zones for apartments. So let's say that the cyclist was going along Mission with the green light. They could have either been legally riding in the street sharing the lane with autos, or illegally riding on the sidewalk, as many cyclists have to do to preserve their safety. If you think this through, it's a catch-22 situation. The cyclist on the sidewalk would have no legal standing if they were hit by cars exiting a driveway or turning at an intersection, unless they dismounted at each intersection. (This is in fact my own strategy for reaching businesses on Mission St. I memorize side streets that will be closest to the destination then take the sidewalk for the last block.).

Last week there was a nearly identical collission with a truck hitting a cyclist by Bay and Mission, although it is difficult to learn whether it was on the other side of the intersection. Subsequently, there have recently been letters to the editor of the local paper blaming cyclists for either insisting on their rights as a vehicle or somehow being ignorant of traffic regulations pertaining to bikes, pointing out that rights don't matter when you are facing a 10 ton truck. As seen here, this is a very apt point, but it doesn't solve the problem. The letter writer would be suggesting that the cyclist should get out of the road and onto the sidewalk where they have no legal rights. Some brave cyclists actually will behave as vehicles, will merge into the traffic lane, including taking the left lane of the two lane street when they need to make a left turn. There are a lot of fender bender rear end accidents on Mission due to the very complex driving environment, with people changing lanes to get around stalled left-blinking autos, and the bicycle will surely lose during such an incident.

Acting like cyclists just need to be educated is not going to solve the problem. There isn't a good solution for bicycle access to businesses on the busy streets when riding legally is bound to place the cyclist in danger.

I will point out that the city has a great and successful bicycle/transportation committee on city council which has installed a very nice side of bicycle boulevards and bike lanes on the side streets. For long-distance travel across town, this network works very nicely, and keeps cyclists away from dangerous intersections and narrow lane interactions. The main problem in Santa Cruz are narrow roads in the hills, and very unsafe roads with business facilities that everyone needs to use. I might personally suggest making a change for Mission St. like I've seen in Walnut Creek, where sidewalks were explicitly made bicycle legal, with signs ensuring that bikes must yield to pedestrians, and cars must looks for bikes when turning.
§Police take measurements
by Christine
640_truck-randazzo.jpg
§Bay intersection by restaurant
by Christine
640_truck-mission.jpg
§wider angle of scene
by Christine
640_truck_widebay.jpg
Add Your Comments

Comments (Hide Comments)
by Christine
Here are some Santa Cruz Sentinel reported incidents in the close vicinity.

Last week, same intersection, woman gets legs run over by truck
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2007/August/03/breaking/stories/04breaking.htm

Cyclist killed by drunk student.
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2007/May/19/local/stories/08local.htm
by Christine

A few more comments. Heading to campus, I noticed that Randazzo is doing a lot of grading work with bulldozers next to the model farm area where faculty housing is being constructed. House prices are very expensive in Santa Cruz, and even split dorm rooms are pretty pricey, running over $900/person. So off-campus split apartments and houses are the much more affordable option. The university needs to expand spaces at the school because the state is increasing in population, and 12.5% of graduating high school seniors are supposed to be offered a University of California slot. Many people complain that any expansion and increased enrollment on campus will just create a traffic nightmare and overuse of the three roads through residential areas that go to the campus entrance (Western, Bay, and High st.). This isn't necessarily true. They are not building more parking on campus, and most parking is already used. People will be using buses and bicycles out of necessity. The frequency of the buses, which get quite packed, could really be improved. After hours many routes run every 60 minutes. This would also help reduce drunk driving.
While Bay street has a bicycle lane, the stretch on the NE side of Mission operates in a way which can cause dangerous traffic interactions. For about 5 blocks before the hill starts to rise, it is only a bike lane during school hours, and parking is allowed on weekends and after 6pm. Cars often still are expecting the bike lane to be there, and aren't expecting to share the lane when the bicycles have to come over. The speed limit is 25mph, but this is sort of a pipe dream - average speeds are much faster. Because autos aren't expecting to merge with bikes there, many cyclists move up onto the sidewalk in this stretch because it feels safer. A sign was recently placed one block from Mission reminding people to share the lane, which is a welcome improvement.
by George
Wide view. Campus is north of the Bay / Mission intersection. The truck was said to be facing north, after turning right from Mission St. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=l&hl=en&view=map&geocode=&q=bay+and+misson&near=Santa+Cruz,+CA&ie=UTF8&ll=36.971153,-122.042913&spn=0.025098,0.036221&t=h&z=15&iwloc=A&om=1

Closeup of intersection: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=l&hl=en&view=map&geocode=&q=bay+and+misson&near=Santa+Cruz,+CA&ie=UTF8&ll=36.966702,-122.040247&spn=0.001569,0.002264&t=h&z=19&iwloc=A&om=1

The original poster speculated that the cyclist had been on the sidewalk, or legally crossing Mission on Bay Street.

It appears as if the rear wheel had received more force than the front wheel- that the cyclist was struck on the side or side / rear.
640_bay_mission_santa_cruz_truck_trailer.jpg
This is not to scale, the shapes representing truck and trailer were added in MS paint, which does not have layers or anything fancy that would allow easier fine tuning of the positions.

The aerial view is saved from google earth. Judging by the photos, I have a quick depiction of the truck and trailer drawn on top. Perhaps a more seasoned trucker driver could explain why the wheels of the truck are in the left turn lane of Bay street.

The positions of the trailer and truck were approximated by the foliage and light posts. Notice the wooden electricity pole near the end of the trailer; the palm tree of the closeup of the truck. Note the left (driver) side wheel is at least one tire width in the left turn lane.

One major difficulty is judging the hills / gradients -- one scenario I can imagine is a downhill cyclist on Mission is struck and dragged (drug?) as the truck driver negotiates a tight turn.
by nin
Yes - The police are inspecting the front grille of the truck where he was apparently hit, and someone pointed out that the rear wheel and not the front wheel was impacted. So the cyclist was probably hit from behind and went between the two front wheels.

The scenario where the cyclist would have made an error would be if the truck was blinking and had started a turn, and then the cyclist tried to pass the entire truck on the right, and swerved a few feet into bay street while continuing to pass. It would be good to know if the truck was overtaking the cyclist, or if the light had just turned green and both were positioned at the line.
by Bicicleta Bandito
Brothers and sisters - For anyone who rides, the time to express our grief and outrage is now. Another life has been cut short by a machine that is inherently detrimental to earth and its creations. Join us for an emergency bike mass tonight @ 6pm on the corner of Bay/Mission - bring flowers, candles, signs, whatever you need to express your feelings on the matter.

We'll be leaving the Bike Church around 5:30pm and attempt to occupy the corner where
the accident took place for a minute in solidarity. An injury to one is an injury to all.

- Bicicleta Bandito
by slugwholovesbikes
I myself was on my way up to campus (in a car, mind you), and it looked pretty bad. I just happened to be passing by when the coroner was loading up the stretcher. my condolences to that person's family. I drive because I come from over the hill, but I have the most respect for bicyclists (bike whenever possible) and I always try to be mindful about sharing the road. A sad day in santa cruz indeed.
by EA
The guy that was directly behind the truck that hit the cyclist poted earlier on the sentinel website (it's now deleted), he said the cyclist sped by him and tried to clear the intersection going down Mission (past Bay, not up it) and the truck had a green light and was turning right up Bay. He said it appeared the truck just never saw the cyclist at all, and he obviously didn't make it. I, too was there before the fire truck pulled up and just cannot get the vision of his dead body out of my mind. Horrible tragety.
by Cyclist

I respectfully disagree that cyclist education will not help, or that cyclists taking the lane are more prone to getting hit because of frequent fender benders. Particularly at intersections and in relatively slow stop/go traffic, a bicyclist is no more vulnerable than is a motorcyclist, yet you don't see motorcyclists cowering near the gutter "to be safe".

The right hook is one of the most common type of car-bike collisions, and is often fatal. The real tragedy is how preventable right hooks are. I never approach any intersection without looking back behind me and moving further left, negotiating for right-of-way as necessary. The key is to establish your presence as part of through traffic. By staying right, drivers can easily instinctively assume you're not there, or assume subconsciously that you are turning right. By moving left, you are forcing them to deal with you: slow down to your speed and follow you to the intersection. Often it is possible to move far enough left to allow right-turners to pass you on the right. That's very safe. The people who think there is nothing they can learn about being safer in traffic are the ones who probably have the most to learn.

Calling all Santa Cruz bicyclists! This morning, a bike commuter was killed by a semi-truck heading north on Mission and Bay. According to the Santa Cruz Sentinel, the semi-truck was turning right and did not see the 20-year old man.

During my lunch break, I rode out to see the scene and it brought tears to my eyes – A battered blue bike was left and the police had the eastern bound side of Bay closed. Whoever this person was, they were clearly a very serious and responsible rider as there were two saddle bags, and city issued “license” stickers on the bike. I can't even begin to express how upset I am over this - This is at least the 2nd bicyclist who's been killed this year by an automobile.

In the name of solidarity for those who ride, come out to the corner of Mission and Bay for an emergency vigil @ 6pm! I’ll be trying to rally up folks at the bike church around 5:30pm and need all the help I can get. Please bring flowers, signs, whatever you feel is necessary to express your grief and outrage. And please, please spread the word.

An injury to one is an injury to all.

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2007/August/07/breaking/stories/01breaking.htm
by Ti
The Sentinel commentary is a bit confused. I did find this, which claims that someone saw a situation entirely different from the one suggested two posts above where an 'eyewitness' saw the bike racing by and trying to pass in the intersection. Here they are saying that the bike was stationary on the curb, and then got pulled in as they clipped the curb. Trucks don't have much space to move a bit to the left so they can make a neat right turn, due to narrow lanes.
---------------------------------------------------

20 year old male biker. Saw the blood in the street, the crushed bike, the body bag. God/Goddess rest his soul.

Talked with an eye-witness at Beckmanns Bakery. He said the biker was on the sidewalk corner (not in the street), not realizing the turn was so tight the truck driver's big rig hopped the curb and the biker got plowed over and dragged under the truck. Tragic. SO what can be done to prevent this from happening again?
by Ti
One thing to consider about taking the lane at the intersection is the differences that occur when there is and there is not a bike lane. For instance, at this Bay and Mission intersection, there is a bike lane on Bay which is on the far right side of the street. More than half the cars in the right vehicle lane want to turn right. So the strategy when the light is red and you want to go straight as a bicycle is to position yourself partway into the crosswalk, and start moving as soon as the light turns green so that they can't turn in front of you. However, if the light is already green when you approach the intersection, the safest thing to do is to merge out of the bike lane into the vehicle lane. At the same time, if you still get hit, you will probably get blamed for leaving the bike lane.
by fred
It hasn't been deleted.

I was at the scene this morning soon after it occured. There is a lot of wrong information going on here and some blind speculation.
by anon
Ti, to the best of my knowledge, and from the aerial photos in comments above, there is NOT a bike lane at this intersection.
by masser
There is not a bike lane there on Mission Street (Bay and Mission). According to an employee at Sylvan Music, an store on the corner of Mission and Bay, the bicyclist was riding on the sidewalk of Mission, against traffic, when the semi-truck turned right and hit the cyclist. However, I spoke to another man who was on a bike outside of Sylvan Music and he says that the cyclist was riding down Mission Street in the same direction as car traffic and the semi-truck turned right and killed the cyclist. According to this same witness, the cyclist was riding in the blind spot of the truck-driver. I am sorry for the young man, his friends and family. I also sympathize with the truck driver, assuming that he was trying his best to drive in a responsible manner.
by trevorspoke
Three points below:

The newspaper article indicates the incident was videotaped by a security camera. We need more of those, preferably mounted in all motor vehicles to help reconstruct these crashes.

The article says the bike and truck were side by side as they approached the intersection. Thus the problem. If the lane is narrow, cyclists should know it is SAFER to be in the lane where you can be SEEN. The article said the cyclist made a "slight right turn". From the curve of the roadway, it may be the cyclist intended to go straight at the intersection. All the more reason when approaching intersections where a right turn is permitted to move left into the stream of traffic to avoid such right-turn scenarios. I can't imagine the cyclist was not aware of the truck next to them, and it seems we should try harder to get the word out to bike riders that being next to a big vehicle near any place where turn is permitted is bad news.

Motorists still do not seem to be aware that they are REQUIRED by law to make right turns from as close to the right edge of the roadway as practicable. Now this truck driver is going to claim that he couldn't make a right turn from any closer to the edge of the road, but there is NO EXCUSE for "not seeing". We can no longer to continue to allow lethal weapons to be driven around with known "blind spots". Mounting video cameras on all such visibility areas should be required, then there would be no excuse for truck driver making a right turn: they must check the right side of the truck. Proximity warning alarm would be nice required equipment too.
by brian
If you've ever watched a truck make a right turn, you know that the trailer wheels track the truck's position instead of taking the same path through the turn that the truck does. So the truck had turned wide to keep the trailer from clipping the corner as he made the turn. Unfortunately this means he had to enter the intersection going straight which looks (if you ignore the turn signals) like he's in fact going to go straight and it would be safe to ride alongside...
by Tom Honig 429-2444 (thonig [at] santacruzsentinel.com)
Editor in chief - Santa Cruz Sentinel: Tom Honig, 429-2444


If you have comments on this or other stories, please feel free to call me on my direct line!

Thank you


Tom
by noname
Does anyone know if the biker was wearing a helmet? I see so many people in these areas biking and not wearing helmets...maybe we could prevent the loss of more lives by making sure more people are being safe or least being safe ourselves.
I am wondering if one would be able to see the turn signals when you are right next to the truck and slightly behind? Did the camera catch how long the turn signals were on? (i.e. Were they on for a long time before the turn? Were they turned on a the last second?)
by kaitie
Helmets are not the problem, and I can guarantee you a helmet would not have prevented this death. The problem is cars! There should be a serious effort to separate cars and bikers. It is too often that we hear of a cyclist dying by car collisions (in the mountains, by drunk drivers, or semi trucks).
The city needs to look at other bicycle communities like those found in Holland even UC Davis to try and keep riders safe! I commute to and from work and it's not my helmet that's keeping me safe, it's my assumption that all cars are out to kill me so I have to be on top of it or else I may end up like that poor kid...dead! Fix this problem city council!!! Invest in bike lanes on mission street, endorse the use of bikes and let communters know that they will be safe on the road! How many more kids need to die?
by Ti
Someone was speaking about the graphic image of blood.
Personally, I faint at the sight of blood, but I would favor leaving the image up. Different categories of journalistic organizations have established ethical rules regarding this sort of thing. In this case, it is worthwhile to point out that the local Sentinel showed a photo of the body, and probably several hundred people drove by during the hours afterwards. indymedia would probably have to carefully consider whether to show a body. A second woman was recently run over at that intersection a week ago, and nearly died, yet the community reaction was much diminished compared to this incident, due to natural visceral reactions to seeing the situation this way.
Television stations have had progressively changing principles regarding images, where there used to be no war footage shown at all, and then slowly it became so that everything except profanity is shown without advanced warning. Except, sometimes when a story involves close personal footage of blood, CNN might suggest sending children out of the room. I've taken to noticing and pointing out to family members when the news is showing actual film of people dying, and the overall presentation ends of being casual. Some recent examples are the Phoenix news helicopters shown crashing into each other and spiraling to the ground. Another example would be the divers fishing for the dead in the cars under the Minneapolis bridge, and survivors emerging from burning trucks. These were scenes of people dying on screen, but without blood. Other cases of this come up constantly, particularly car chases and combat scenes in Iraq where an IED is going off, or one can see someone shooting and likely hitting people. The viewer is seeing someone die, or someone who should have died might perhaps might just be seriously crippled if they were to report on the condition of the victim. Then the station has to proceed to sports or human interest stories that are given the same level of emotional voice. The pool of blood shown there is newsworthy, and perhaps makes it more real than dozens of reports of car crashes on highways around Watsonville occurring each year.
by Paul Fortino (paulie140 [at] yahoo.com)
I tend to agree and disagree with the comments written.
And especially the anonymous comments from left field. It's so easy to point a finger, or spout off when nobody knows who you are! Buck up people. If you want to be heard, let yourself be seen as well.

I think accidents and losses such as this HAVE to become more "real" in order for cyclists and motorists to change their bad habits. But does showing a pool of blood really make it any more real?

What IS real are the cyclist not wearing helmets, not using hand signals, not obeying traffic laws, not using lights or wearing reflective clothing at night. And for the life of Brian... STOP having ipods plugged into your ears while you are commuting!

Motorists are equally as bad, cutting off cyclists, talking on their cell phones, text messaging, putting on make-up, driving while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Doing everything in their vehicles BUT paying attention to their driving.

This is a accident is a tragedy, as all accidents are!

But I must say, in my opinion, showing this man's blood on the street is not going to change people. It may offend some people, it may sicken some people, but change comes from within. Not until each of us has a close call, or loses a loved one, can we truly reflect on our own imortality. Sad but true! (in my opinion).

Blessings to the family and friends of John Myslin.
by luci
"Motorists are equally as bad, cutting off cyclists, talking on their cell phones, text messaging, putting on make-up, driving while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Doing everything in their vehicles BUT paying attention to their driving. "

It's not just the occasional bicyclist who gets killed. Pedestrians get killed, and I think that is actually more common than bicyclists dying under the wheels of motor vehicles.

I think that people don't take their responsibility as drivers seriously enough. The fact is, when you get behind the wheel of any motor vehicle, be it a scooter in the hood, an SUV on the freeway, or a tractor trailer truck on the street, you are taking other people's lives into your hands. Combined with your vehicle, you will be larger and faster than pedestrians or bicyclists, and you have the power to maim or kill. This is why people have bumper stickers that say, "Share the Road." You have to remember that we had roads long before we had cars, and we will always have some people who are on the road and not in a car.

It's true, the roads are not safe. Not everyone can afford a decent helmet, lights, etc. This is a problem, and it is not going to go away under capitalism and the state. In the meantime, please don't drive if you're not alert enough to be on the road. Keep your eyes peeled, because you're not the only one out there, and we are depending in large part on your ability to avoid hitting us.
by from pacificcollegiate.com
August 8, 2007

I am sending this letter to you because I want to make sure that all students and their families receive the same information about a traumatic and tragic event at our school. With great sorrow I report that John Myslin, our history teacher and JSA advisor, died Tuesday morning in a bicycle accident on his way to school.

Death can be difficult for us to understand, especially when it is sudden. Many of us may be confronted with a variety of emotions which might include shock, sadness, and confusion. I want to assure you that the PCS family cares about you and the feelings you may be experiencing.

We are here to support you during this difficult period. Trained counselors are available on campus today and tomorrow morning in the B-pod and room 23 to assist you. You may wish to share memories you have of Mr. Myslin, or write or draw a message which we will post on a memory wall. Crisis response team members will also be available during the first week of school. I want to encourage those students who may be particularly upset, perhaps even struggling or connecting this with a similar event involving family or a friend, to talk with our new Academic Counselor, Ms. Ellen Masten, who is available to meet with you throughout the year.

John was a talented and dedicated teacher for 10th and 7th grade, and also served as our JSA advisor. He was a funny, helpful, caring, authentic person who touched our lives. He exemplified the "PCS way"--he was prepared, respectful, engaged, and professional in dealing with students, families, and colleagues.

This loss is personal as well as professional for us. We are working with John's family and will keep you informed about the possibility of a memorial service in the near future.

Respectfully,

Andrew Goldenkranz
Principal/Superintendent

--

Pacific Collegiate School
255 Swift Street
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
Phone: 831.479.7785
Fax: 831.427.5254
by Concerned
I would think that it would be prudent that his students don't see his blood splattered all over the street.
Let them remember him with dignity.

Delete the bloody pics, and post a photo of his face!

by George
In response by some advocating for separate / segegrated facilities - sadly, side paths / segegrated paths only help for the least important crash mode - rear end collisions of bicycles by motor vehicles (predominantly on rural roads, at night). Collision frequencies increase at the intersections of the rest of the road network and the side path / multi use path. Those paths might be useful if there is as much maintenance and upkeep as for the local road network - but I imagine you will still have to use the road network. For your shopping and such.

The biggest issue is that each of the users of the road sees the others as obstacles-- however if one begins to see themselves as a continuous community trying to get from place to place, the behavior (of rushing to and fro) which leads to tragedy is no longer so important. Some of the behaviors include cyclists going straight being on the right side of a right turning vehicle-- which violates expectations of the right turning vehicle. Motorists turning left in front of a cyclist going straight violates the cyclists expectations. And cyclists not seeing the validity of stop signs are as improper as the jaywalking pedestrian when there are adequate pedestrian facilities close by.

As others have mentioned, pedestrian deaths still outnumber cyclist deaths-- it seems like we (taxpayers, who pay for peace officers) have capitulated to insurance companies that will only investigate when insured vehicles are involved.

by Show some respect
I agree with the person who said that you should show a picture of Josh, and not the bloody street, if you want to commemorate and mourn his death.

I understand the desire to publicize this tragedy to further the goals of bicylist rights and advocate for paths, but to use his death in such a callous manner is cruel.

How does posting these graphic images to further the cause honor his passing? IMO, it doesn't; instead it uses him as a tool.

RIP Josh; my thoughts go out to your family and friends who are left behind to grieve your passing.
by Will M
These photographs are absolutely sickening. I've seen a lot of horrible things on the internet and this tops them all. Indymedia is great for telling it like it is, but seeing puddles of gore on mission street doesn't accomplish that. It's voyeuristic and disgusting. Grow some modesty.
by Claude Miller
I have been an enthusiastic supporter of Indynews from the very beginning, but I think I have to take a new position today.
After reading the article, and seeing the graphic photos, I realize that free speach sometimes comes with a price. This is one time that I say I do NOT support such graphic images.

This was an accident, not a war. Traffic in Santa Cruz may be a political issue, but to use the image of a young man's blood as a source of power is simply wrong. Is the loss of his life not enough? Is the loss of a school teacher not enough? Is the loss of another bicyclist not enough? Must you use grotesque images to try and make your story more sensational?

After seeing this article and images, I now have to reconsider my support for such a open ended forum, with very loose controls.
Freedom of speach is a right, but it must not be abused.

At the request of many, I would hope that these images are removed immediately!

Thank you,
Claude
by surprise, we live in a bubble
"I agree with the person who said that you should show a picture of Josh, and not the bloody street, if you want to commemorate and mourn his death."

Hi. This article was published on Tuesday Aug 7th, 2007 10:53 AM. You can look up to verify that. This article was published before anyone knew the identity of John (not Josh). If you have a picture of John, then by all means feel free to publish his photo. You are welcome to use this website to commemorate and mourn his death. These photos were not taken by a paparazzi and sold to a tabloid. They were published here to alert people that someone's life was cut short by a semi-truck.

This article, including the comment by Bicicleta Bandito, was influential in having a large memorial at the scene of the tragedy. In 7 hours, people were on the scene with flowers to create a vigil to John, whose identity was not known at the time. One women drove by in her car and shouted out her window, "Have some respect for the dead." The people at the vigil were there to show respect for the dead. As bikers, we can all relate to the danger of Mission Street, semi-trucks and no bike lanes. Is it ok for people to dictate what an appropriate response is to the loss of a community member's life? I have not witnessed anyone trying to disrespect the memory of John.

"After reading the article, and seeing the graphic photos, I realize that free speach sometimes comes with a price. This is one time that I say I do NOT support such graphic images."

Claude, what is the formula for determining when an image is unacceptable? When does an image become too graphic? Better yet, start a new post to discuss this. Death is a part of life.

"This was an accident, not a war."

See, now you are trying to turn this into something..... dare I say it, "P-O-L-I-T-I-C-A-L"

Is it inappropriate to cite the number of fatalities caused by trucks? What if that statistic is compared with the number of people who die in a war? Are we getting too political now? Should we follow the lead of the Scotts Valley Sentinel? If they say it, then it is ok? If they show it, then it is ok?

"I have been an enthusiastic supporter of Indynews from the very beginning, but I think I have to take a new position today."

What is your new position? Turn off open-publishing? Only support the Scotts Valley Sentinel?

Why not understand the nature of community-based media production? As a community, we can learn from the tragic death of John. We can learn from the past as we get behind the wheel of a vehicle. We can learn from the past as we create news together. Let's work to influence the future, not demand that the past is undone.

With Respect to the Life of John, his friends, family, students and co-workers.
Cyclist killed by truck on San Pablo in Oakland (warning: graphic photo)
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/08/09/18439689.php

In yet another bicycle tragedy, a cyclist was run over and killed some time around 8am today by a large dump truck at the intersections of West, Isabella, and San Pablo.
by San Jose Cyclist
Photographs like these will sure stick in my mind as I commute home on my bicycle tonight. Perhaps I will hesitate just a bit before shooting past stopped cars at an intersection. Vivid images such as these help communicate how frail our bodies really are and serve as a reminder that we too can end up in a pool of blood on the side of a road.

RIP John.
by student
I was a student of John Myslin, a devoted, caring, intelligent, and good-hearted man. I am glad that such a large number of people showed compassion for his death, but while his name was not yet released, and his family didn't even know he was dead, his death should not have been turned into a political statement. It's one thing to go down and lay flowers on the sidewalk. It's another to post signs and give speeches about political issues through a microphone. Who did they think they were? His own family and friends didn't even know he was killed yet! All that should have been spoken about was the life of John Myslin. All that matters is that his life was brutally taken from him.

The sign on the white, ghost-like bike read:
"A rider was killed here."
It should have said:
"John Myslin, a teacher, brother, friend, and (lastly) rider was killed here."
by Jane
It must feel very sad when friends and family are entirely helpless to do anything about this case. Nobody had an opportunity to even say goodbye, unlike situations where someone has a deadly disease, often even heart attacks.
However, I disagree with the statements that the memorial was cynically political. Yet I can understand that someone might perceive it as an intrusion by outsiders, when they have no actions they can take now to prevent this. How does anyone know that Mr. Myslin would feel bad about people making something of a point about his death? No members of the community would have done this if there wasn't an aura of injustice around it. It wasn't an unjust death like a murder, or an accident caused by shoddy and reckless manufacture of a product, which are things which often cause people to go on crusades regarding a loved-one. Yet... his death was not fair. My whole perception of this situation is that it is great that this community cares enough to make a point about this. During this past week, there was a whole list of accidents in the larger region that didn't produce a community response.
The way this man's death is being "advertised" here is nothing less than sad and crude, and without thought.

I am just as saddened by this forum as I am with this man's untimely death.
by Jane
Actually, all anyone did at that memorial was to circulate a petition for directing bike traffic onto King St. with signs.
He was a Junior Statesman of America advisor at the high school. That club holds political policy debates and students learn about the democratic process. Isn't it conceivable at all, that this man would support advocating for city change?
by Story Time (storytimeproject [at] yahoo.com)
Please people, these pics might be graphic but they are real, this is what happened.
The problem is not here.
Information is information, and to my opinion should be seen and shown as is.
Thank you IndyBay SC.
by never!
I think you should show it. I think you should all look at it and remember it and tell other people about it. Make them think about how close they get to cyclists. My best friend was killed riding his bike when I was 16 years old. The next day I went to the crash site and picked up his scalp off the ground. The whole damn thing with his long hair and all. I would have wanted you to see there in my hand and think about me standing there with the scalp of the guy I hung around every day for years in my hand.

I wanted everyone to see it. It's 24 years later and there is hardly a day that I don't see something that reminds me of him (good and bad) and hardly a week goes by where I don't wish I had it shove in the face of a stupid driver or some ass hat that has hit me. I make it a point to tell people so he wasn't just a bloody mess hidden away where everyone can forget and then start talking on their cellphones, putting on makeup and daydreaming while driving again.

Out of respect for me or the family? You got all wrong. I cared about him too much to do that. If anyone had driven by I would have made them look.
by King5 repost
September 8, 2007

Seattle: Cyclists killed and injured by dump truck
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/09/08/18446292.php

by Christine
BTW, I thought I'd add yet another Sentinel story which actually goes ahead and shows the cyclist body just lying there while everyone is talking. Perhaps the reason everyone got so angry at us just showing the bicycle after the coroner had come was that this website is perceived as being run by real people while the 'news' is a cold impersonal force

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/story.php?sid=64367&storySection=Top+Stories
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