Right wing fundamentalists from BattleCry return to SF this week- Protest Friday 12noon

Please note: the Protest time begins at 12noon not 12AM as listed on calendar. Thanks!

We are teenagers who are sick and tired of pornography, sex, crime, violence, drugs and other such things being shoved down our throats. This movement is just as we say it is....a Battlecry for our generation....a battlecry for help...and aparantly, the morals and values that this nation was founded upon have been dissolved and we as teenagers are not being supported by our government or our parents, but we want to live for Christ regardless. We are not violent, in fact, we have physically harmed no one. We only cry out with our voices that we need help. This article is very wrong in many ways and it disgusts me that the writer of this article feels that he or she can twist things around to make a sad attempt to prove his or her lowly point. My peers and I do not like being lied about.

In a free country you will always occasionally witness things which seem abhorrent to you. They may include pormography or whatever else offends you, certain kinds of music- whatever. The solution to all problems however is not: your religion over all the rest of us.

Even pornography is protected by the US constitution under the laws governing free speech. So don't come to our City Hall, which represents our government and waggle your Christian-evangelical finger of intolerance at us because you don't like the way the rest of the world is. There are plenty of ways for you to help without shoving *your* religion down *our* throats.

Thomas Jefferson had no intention of allowing the government to limit, restrict, regulate, or interfere with public religious practices. He believed, along with the other Founders, that the First Amendment had been enacted only to prevent the federal establishment of a national denomination-a fact he made clear in a letter to fellow-signer of the Declaration of Independence Benjamin Rush:

"[T]he clause of the Constitution which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity through the United States; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians and Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes and they believe that any portion of power confided to me will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly. "

Jefferson had committed himself as President to pursuing the purpose of the First Amendment: preventing the “establishment of a particular form of Christianity” by the Episcopalians, Congregationalists, or any other denomination.

"BattleCry indoctrinates teens against the evils of secular music, divorce, abortion, homosexuality, disobedience to authority."
Are there evil parts to these issues? Have lives been destroyed by forces coming out of these issues? Do you wish this destruction to continue? What have we done to help our teens to overcome these issues?

" If we in the Bay Area don’t confront the Christian Right with energetic protest and repudiation, if we allow BattleCry’s message of violence and bigotry to broadcast unprotested from the heart of San Francisco - what are we saying to justice-loving people in Alabama, Idaho, Texas or to the victims of intolerance past, present and future anywhere else in the country or the world?"

You are telling the world that the "City of San Francisco" your great city of "Tolerance" has no room for any other worldview than "Yours". Seems to me there is a disconnect in that.

You are Blessed to be a Blessing.

is you.

These teens want what they want for themselves. You want your "tolerance" for everyone. One size fits all? I think not.

The whole point of Battle Cry is not to go around and change the areas that it goes to. If you really look at everything they have put out then you would realize that the rally, the concert, the whole movement is not about changing individuals. If this were true then they would probably try to round up everyone that opposes them and try to "indoctrinate" them. The whole point is to give a generation their voice. I am pretty sure that this has happened in the past, just look at student protests of the Vietnam War. They protested the government because they didn't agree with what they were doing. That is exactly what is going on here, just a different issue, instead of addressing the government, they are addressing the culture (the group who they believe is doing something wrong).

You make it sound as if these teens are being forced to be at the rally and the event. If that were true, then how can you explain that each person had to willingly pay for the price of the ticket, which wasn't cheap, you can look at their website for exact prices. If I didn't want to go to something, and all I had to do was not pay a certain amount of money...well I think I would be able to find my way out of it.

Now, you say that pornographers have the right to produce their product. I would whole-heartedly have to AGREE with you. This is guaranteed by our constitution, and they have that right. BattleCry does not challenge this. What Battle Cry and the teens that attend the rally have a problem with is the solicitation of their product to the teenagers. Which might I say is Illegal. There are laws in this country that protect potential victims of crime, yet there are no such rules or regulations that are being enforced to crack down on this problem.

If you are saying "oh, it's just a little bit of porn" then maybe you should look at the effects that it has on the human psyche. There have been numerous studies that show the chemical released in the brain during climax is like a drug, it is very addicting. The person will then continue to feed this addiction by looking at more porn. Studies have also shown that marriages that involving a person that has dealt with porn have a higher rate of divorce than the national average which is already staggeringly close to 50%. That's not all. More studies have shown that males that have been addicted to porn can develop a type of erectile dysfunction during marriage because they cannot be aroused by their own wife!

I am sorry if some of these things are shocking, but it is the truth. These facts alone are not the cause of alarm for Battle Cry. there is one other stat that has shook them the most. You can find this all over their material. The stat is that 90% teenagers (both male and female) between the ages of 11-17 have been exposed to HARDCORE PORNOGRAPHY, most while doing their homework.

This generation is growing up with many things that even their parents didn't grow up with. More wealth, widespread use of internet, and point and click porn. The worst part of it all is that the controlling generation has no idea how bad this is. They just accept it as part of the culture. This is exactly what Battle Cry is about. Giving the teens a voice that they didn't have, just like the protests of the vietnam war. Letting this generation proclaim that this is not right, and they don't want it to be that way anymore.

The goal of Battle Cry is more than just about porn. It is about many other crisis's that this generation faces including:

Suicide
Self-Mutilation
rape
violence(may I note the two kids that were shot at school today)
abortion(check this link out. <http://mttu.com/abort-pics/index.html> It might shed a little light on some darkness.)
and Homosexuality (yes they stand against this, surprise, they're Christians that believe in the bible. It's not breaking news that they don't agree with homosexuality. and by looking at the devastation that it causes, I can't blame them at all.)

So, before you go out condemning things, I would check all of the facts. And by the way, the City lifted the condemnation about a week after the group left because they realized that it was wrong. Also, something that I thought was very interesting is that the Mayor of SF is scheduled as a tentative speaker at the conference.

“We see homosexuality like... lying, or cheating, or stealing."

Ooh sell me that old time brand of religious tolerance!


from the NY Times:
Tasha White, 18, attended the event last year and said it had opened her eyes to “a culture leading us into brokenness.”

“You look at Britney Spears, and what she did and that leads to divorce and rehab and drugs, and that’s a negative influence,” said Ms. White, who lives in nearby San Bruno and said she had had problems with under-age drinking herself. “And that’s not something I believe our generation should be looking forward to.”

Ms. White added that she did not think there was anything antigay about the event, though she believes gay people are “misguided.”

Mr. Luce echoed that sentiment, saying his group loves gay people, but does firmly believe their sexuality is sinful.

“We see homosexuality like a lot of other things that do harm to us, like lying, or cheating, or stealing,” he said, adding that he said he had seen studies suggesting that many gay people are depressed or unhappy. “And it’s not very loving to leave them in that state and not show them another way.”

With high-profile evangelical supporters like the Rev. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, BattleCry is just one part of Mr. Luce’s campaign to energize young Christians, who many leaders worry are leaving the church...

"There are plenty of ways for you to help without shoving *your* religion down *our* throats. "
I don't remember seeing Freedom "From" religion anywhere in the history of this great nation.

Funny how its shoving when its not your view! They have a right to express thier beliefs just like everyone else. Do you protest as equally when it is the Gay pride parade?

to "pointless": can you actually read a news article from the internet that quotes the individuals in question and may relate to the subject? Good!

Bob you need to do your homework on Thomas Jefferson. There is no state religion. Period.

Monitor, your hatred of women and your homophobia is showing. Oops.

So, by allowing women to kill their babies, I prove that I don't hate them (according to 'check yourselves')
I can also show my affection gays by campaigning for more pornography, drugs and crime (once again, according to 'check yourselves') -

By inference, you hate women if are pro-life, and you are anti-gay if you support kids protesting the evils of society...

That's what I did. The term "Baby" is a non-medical, social term.
And lest you protest that I am somehow diminishing the importance of the fetus by using the term fetus, think again!

If the word 'baby' is a 'non-medical' 'social' term, then what do women give birth to?

What is the difference between a premature 'baby' and a 'fetus' besides the fact that one has a better chance of survival?

Why not let the fetus mature and see if you liked it, before killing it?

Thats a depressingly shallow read on a hugely important and undervalued phenomena. (I'm talking about parenting). I would put money on the table that I've thought more deeply about parenting my than you have. (Liking? get real.)
The idea that you give birth and suddenly "like" it is ignorant and uninformed and frankly, superstitious. Read some parenting books that talk about the full transition to a mutual relationship with a baby. You'll see that you're making the same mistake most forced-birth advocates make- that everything changes suddenly when a women gazes on her baby. It doesn't always happen that way? why? because the emotional growth that needs to have happened(and needs to be able to continue to happen) can't be forced or faked.
I aborted because I knew I couldn't care for, in any way, the fetus that would achieve differentiation and become a child. it was the only parenting and responsible decision I could have made. you don't correct irresponsibility(having unprotected sex) by continuing to be irresponsible(giving birth) Parenting is a direct reflection of a healthy cognitive/emotional system, and if that system (me, in other words) isn't healthy or isn't mature it's unlikely I'm going to be able to parent.
it is a wicked and misleading lie to assure any women that she'll automatically "like" the baby. And it's time women stopped letting themselves be lied to about all the emotional transitions they are called upon to make as parents.
This is of course, why we need age-appropriate sex ed and continued discussions/education about giving birth. So that the task of parenting isn't flattened out into a one dimensional Hallmark card.

Finally, terminology. "Fetus" refers to any fetus that hasn't been born yet, up to the 38 to 40th week. What a women choses to call it at any point is entirely up to her. You're making by thinking that use of the fetus is an attempt to skirt an issue. It isn't . It's a fetus(to me) and it has a value which may not necessarily be best expressed by letting it come to term.
Oh, that's the other mistake your making. Birthed life isn't the best option for all fetuses. It isn't the highest endowment of respect.

"you need to do your homework on Thomas Jefferson. There is no state religion. Period. " ??


How does this turn into a seperation of Church and State?

They are a group of people organizing to express their belief in what they think is right or wrong, which they have every right to do. Are you afraid that some of what they say makes sense and it may make you look a little foolish?

Thomas Jefferson did not state anything about freedom "from" religion. Except maybe freedom from religious persecution. But I believe there are many references about freedom "of" religion. You are free to believe in what you want without the fear of being persecuted.

So before you go and get your nickers in a twist, embrace the fact that we live in a country that allows people such expression.

Not afraid that what some right wing evangelical says will make any of us here in San Francisco look foolish. After all, they have said they're concerned that kids are leaving their church in droves. Maybe they should re-examine THEIR message.

As to freedom FROM religion, let's consider the definition of religion. You probably will find something disagreeable about this, but here goes. From an online dictionary:
Religion is
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

I'm gonna edit here. Let's say as an example the following is MY religion.

"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe...containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

...a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons."

See? No god, my religion is not theistic. But it is mine. And Jefferson says I can't hold it over you any more than you can hold yours over me.

Of course, this could ALSO be my religion:
http://www.venganza.org/

How is this town of "tolerance" so intolerant of a group of teens gathering together to sing songs and hear lectures from religious leaders? Apparently SF is only tolerant of groups who believe exactly as mainstream SF does...sounds a little hypocritical.

We tolerated them. They had their intolerant say. We just called them on it. You got a problem with that, go somewhere that doesn't have free speech and then you can tell us to shut up.

Please see: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/09/BAGGNOIKNB4.DTL

Some interesting points - "Thousands of evangelical teenagers from around California..." and "The youths were greeted by fewer than 100 counter-protesters, who tried...."

It seems like the majority of public saw this for what it was... Thousands of kids praying and singing versus less than a 100 left wing despots. If what they were doing was such a crime against humanity, why then was there less than 100 despots holding up hateful signs and yelling abuse?

There were not thousands of kids at City Hall, that's the usual crap from the SF Comicle. Frankly, not many people knew Battlecry was coming, or they don't feel threatened by it enough to take time off from work. Are you sure you publicized it enough?


You all should come back around June 24th. We'll be ready for you then. You can come to OUR celebration. Some of us think it's gotten a little commercial, but maybe Ron could learn a thing or two about marketing.

I totally agree with your points on what is religion and what is not. Even if it involves spagetti.

I still do not see how anyone is holding anything over you? They have a right to gather and express what they think is right. Is it not a form of intollerance to try to stop them so we don't have to hear.

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

From what I can see they are doing no injury to anyone. Although you or I may disagree with their message we have no right to stop them from speaking. Just as I would have no right to stop you from speaking about your beliefs.

I didn't notice that anyone stopped Battlecry from speaking. I did notice that an opposing view to theirs was also allowed to speak, and because of that free speech the people of Battlecry are whining about intolerance from people who happen to oppose their views.

Bottom line, both sides said their piece. We are not intolerant of free speech, but we are intolerant of bigotry against the rights of others to be who they are and marry whom they please.

agenda, probably no one would care what you believed. But our govt. is stocked with Christian right wingers who handily suppress other perspectives concerning the governance of our bodies and lives to the aims of Christianity. When the last theocrat has exited the halls of the FDA, let me know, and I'll stop opposing speaking when you speak. until then...

the presence of "theocrats" in government office obviously must represent a presence of similar-valued citizens that elected them.

The world can wait, and will wait...two more years

We are Chrisitan teens who want to stand up for God. We don't hate gay people, we are still friends with them, we just don't agree with the path they are taking. We don't hate people, Jesus didn't hate, Jesus preached "Love thy neighbor as you love yourself". For those of us who don't get to go to big Christian concerts in our area, or don't have the radio stations for that kind of music which is actually really good, regardless (Check out Skillet, Pillar, Relient K, or The Afters..theyre awesome. Pillar, Relient K, and The Afters are played on MTV and in secular music...everyone loves them. We aren't preaching hate. We just want to come together and be able to worship God freely together and give thanks for the sacrfice of Jesus Christ. We want to tell teens that theirs a better life style for them out there. Even if they won't accept Christ as there savior, at least if they came to an event or heard about it, they would stop doing drugs, having sex, drinking, listen to vulgar and profain music that denounces woman and promotes rape (And you get mad at us?...look at the music that's on the radio...Since when was it okay for people to say that to eachother and swear up and down. All it does is make people look ignorant.) And you yourself know, and i know that you do know ...that all of those bad things that are teens are doing (a majority of which are illegal....99.9%)..are destroying them and will cause them pain in there future lives and keep them from achieving their dreams. Most kids do this to fit in because they want to be accepted, others because they have a bad family life...all we are trying to do is share with them how we found hope in our lives..and yes they have the choice to choose whether or not they want to do the same as us...but hopefully..in some way ..their lives will improve.

Thank you for writing the article...even though it shows how mean, ignorant and immature you can be....on the other side..its on google under the news section....teens from battlecry know about the bad articles that will be written..they willl google and find your article...and they will rise up against it.

God Bless and I hope you have a GREAT week regardless of your beliefs.

* forgot a word in there above* For those of us who don't get to go to Christian concerts and have the radio stations and be among alot of Christians and come together..we go to Battlecry

It's not about pop culture, it's about YOU!
http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

Too bad about that Ted Haggard fellow, eh?

first of all I am not a kid, I am 18 years old. I am a legal adult. I am entering college.
second of all, I said i was a Christian, not an eccentric Christian. There are people who claim to be Christian but don't live the lifestyle don't follow Jesus' word or ways. There are people who are eccentric Christians and take it too far. There are people who are normal level, not eccentric Christians. Then theres non-believers & people who believe other religions or who are atheists.

You should check this out: <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IqNvWgUzqQw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IqNvWgUzqQw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

This is what we are fighting for . They are barlowgirl and they are Christians, they are supporters of Purity and Modesty and Abstinence.

there is alot of bad stuff that happens in the church, not all churches but some. theres alot of politics..and then theres the whole thing that some people believe they have the power to heal other people...Only God has the power to dot hat...you can pray for a person taht they willb e healed but only God has the power to heal them...thats a common misconception in the church.

Also, the whole speaking in tounges ordeal. Alot of people fake that stuff and try to say theyre speaking in tounges..but it says in the bible that if that happens everyone in the room is suppossed to be able to interpret it. So its nonsense when someone is just blabbing away and its fake. These are some of the flaws of the church....its what gives us Christians a bad rap...we are not perfect, we are sinners just like everyone else..but there are those who do stupid stuff suppossedly in the name oF Jesus that bring bad attention to Christians and the name of Jesus.

However, there are a majority of us out there who are not eccentric and not hypocrites either....there are those of us who are in the middle...living the Christian life trying to fix what people are messing up...and trying to stand for Christ at the same time.

No one is preventing you from following your chosen path. But as an 18 year old (to some of us, sorry- that qualifies as a kid, unless we know your maturity level), you should understand that when you say things that are controversial, you will get a response.

That's why Luce came to San Francisco in the first place. Not because we had a big stadium that would hold a lot of teens. He could just as easily have gone to the Superdome. He wanted to get some controversy and some publicity. So that he (and you) could complain about it.

Congratulations. Mission Accomplished!

(Sir?) I am not even from the area. I am from Ct..on the complete other side of the country in the cold north!. ....I am not trying to cause controversey, I am just trying to support Battle Cry....I am very mature for my age, I am not trying to disrespect you or anyone on here...but to gain respect and show you what most of us are trying to stand for. We should be able to live in a world where our history of religion in this country is protected..that what separation of Church and state was designed for..not to protect the state from the church..but to protect the church from the state. I think y'all should have your civil unions and all that..and I do not believe in abortion..i believe it is wrong and scaring and the killing of a fetus. However, I believe that is ultimately the woman's choice to decide what she will do. However, I don't think its great that planned parent hood promotes girls doing this around their back.

I think it's sad that kids in middle school are having sex...they aren't able to enjoy their youth. That they're doing drugs. I think it's sad that people in general do this stuff. I'm so sick of seeing people swear on tv and have sex casually like it's playing cards. It's sickening i think its degrading to our country..and i think all his promiscuity...and controversey will ultimately lead to the destruction of our country (technically is already has)...and our values ..and not even relgious ones..ones like respect , honor, hardwork..have all go down the drain. It's going to be the fall of U.S...it's crazy.

Again, no disrespect to you..i just wish there was someway we can all meet inthe middle..but unfortunately we cant right now...and both sides tend to take it too far with comments and things like that ...and i think its because both sides get so sick and tired of trying to fight for what they stand for.

Blessings to you ( and i dont mean it in a way of forcing my religion upon you) have a GREAT week.

Why do you want to show us?

It's your relationship between you and your God. I don't need for you to show me anything. The point is for you to have the relationship, not to perform it for us. I already have a relationship with a spiritual source, which i'm satisfied with. Showing me is...um...????? overly performative and can't add in any way to my knowledge of my relationship with my faith.
I think evangelism is aggressive and more than a just bit neurotic. If you're secure in your relationship with the Christian god, you're good to go.
And Planned Parenthood doesn't "get" girls to do anything. Really. I have had abortions, and used birth control and have had pap smears all at Planned Parenthood and believe me, there was no coercion. There was professional pragmatism. They trusted that I had done the work to double check my thoughts, feelings and desires about the abortion/pap smear etc.... standing guard over my conscience ain't their job. Their job is to provide top notch medical care, which they do.

My problem is with Ron Luce, not the Battlecry teens. At the event at City Hall, there was a huge professionally made banner which stated:

1 Man + 1 Woman = Marriage
Please observe that the man comes first in Ron's World.

Meanwhile when asked by a reporter about the marriages which took place on the City Hall steps (and inspired Luce to have last year's protest there), Ron coyly said, "Did that happen here?" Then he offered that "studies" show that gay people were suffering and it was pure Christian love to offer them a solution to their "misery" and their "sin". Oh please.

I'd be real curious to know the profit Ron rakes in for all his good deeds.

I think is great that you, teens want to stand for something you really believe, something you want in your life, because that is who you are and it is your right as a person, your freedom to let everybody know what you want and it is not fair for other people to tell you that you’re wrong! Do you agree with me? You think being gay is wrong because you do not believe is normal and you do not want it in your life, you do not believe women have the right to make choices about having or not an abortion because this is wrong, I can go on and on about all the things you don’t want because they are wrong for you, BUT they are not wrong for others and others have the same rights you have, to be who they are, to make decisions about their bodies and get educated about it. What I’m going to tell you it’s not easy to do; YOU need to make your own choices and be strong about it, if you need your God to help you, that’s ok, some people don’t need your God and that’s ok too! Some people have different Gods and that’s just fine! Don’t fight the people who made their own choices about who they are, if you don’t want to have sex, be strong and don’t do it, if you don’t want to drink or smoke, BE STRONG AND DON’T DO IT! If others want to do it and get education about it, that’s their choice and their right just like you want to stand for something you really believe. We don’t ask you to change what you believe, just respect what others believe the same way you want to be respected.
We love our San Francisco California for a lot of reasons and one of them is because we believe in equality no matter WHO YOU ARE AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE.

finally we started to get somewhere. Amen! (hurray!)..whicheverrr applies to you..hoo-rah. finally we've got the wheels turning. over and out. have a great week y'all