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Indybay Feature
I Was Hired By SF to Delete Postings
by flagger
Friday Aug 4th, 2006 1:31 AM
PR firm hired to flag and remove content that defamed SF
I Was Hired By SF to Delete Postings

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/com/189951276.html

Reply to: comm-189951276 [at] craigslist.org
Date: 2006-08-03, 9:35PM PDT


I work for a marketing company called Tomkins and Scott LLC. We are not a typical marketing company. Many of our campaigns involve what is known as "black PR" - a covert type of marketing campaign designed to influence and sway public opinion through covert means. Although many of the techniques we use are not specifically in violation of the law, the fact that many of the clients we have give us money for black PR campaigns is.

I have decided to come out and tell the public about what my company is doing because I believe it is unethical and wrong.

Several years ago we received a contract from an agency with the city of San Francisco. The purpose of this contract was to block the spread of any information which spreads a negative light on the city, or might adversely affect its burgeouning tourism industry or robust real estate market.

Members of the agency were concerned about community forums like Craigslist which are read by millions of people. Our job at Tomkins and Scott, my job specifically, was to monitor Craigslist and summarily flag all postings which reflected negatively upon the city in any way. I am going public with this because, after 3 years of being a censor for Craigslist, I believe what we are doing is totally wrong.

I can tell you that the agency of the city of San Francisco which contracted us is not the only government agency to be engaging in black PR operations. If you knew the full list of agencies hired by us and sister firms you would be absolutely shocked. If the average citizen understood the extent to which the information being presented to him or her is being filtered and skewed they would be up in arms immediately.

Information is power and the powers that be fully realize this, which is why they are willing to devote multi-million dollar budgets to covert campaigns like ours to distort and funnel public perceptions in ways that they consider appropriate. Nothing could be more fundamentally poisonous to a democratic society than the blocking of free and open exchange of information and ideas.
by Craig Newmark
(craig [at] craigslist.org) Friday Aug 4th, 2006 9:11 AM
I have a bad feeling about this.

Craig
by on abserver
Friday Aug 4th, 2006 12:09 PM
it's actually a lot more evil than it looks on the surface. a good part of what these guys flagged were conversations about CRIME.
the crime in SF is off the hook insane crazy. the police in SF have handed the citizens over to criminals, because one of the drug
capitals of the west coast is SF. under that frenzy of street crime lies a MASSIVE distrubution network.
SF city is tied into that network on a deep level... and they don't want their tourists to know,
what insanity is going on today near 16th and mission....

conversations about the state of affairs were all flagged. i know because i gave up on having them.
by Dan
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 9:15 AM
Post the above info on Craigslist and let it stay!
by Sandra
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 9:59 AM
PR shifts are nothing new to San Francisco. After the 1906 earthquake press photos were doctored to minimize damage. The press and city officials deemed that it would hence forth be referred to as The San Francisco Fire. Why? Because the powers that be were afraid that people and businesses would no longer move to the area for fear of another earthquake. Also, insurance covered fire damage but it did NOT cover earthquake damage.
This however doesn't minimize the overall "evilness" of the manipulation of the populace. Face it, you are manipulated from cradle to grave. You can choose to respond as they wish, ie. salivate when the bell rings, or you can educate yourselves and fight them by failing to respond as they wish. Strive to be a bad dog, you could save the human race.
by Joe Dohn
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 10:09 AM
It only gets worse.

You Can't Handle the Truth
Psy-ops propaganda goes mainstream.

http://www.slate.com/id/2126479/
by James Whanskey
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 10:44 AM
Craig,

It's pretty clear that there are paid people on CL - especially on the right. Yes, there are left-wing posters, but the right wing ones are relentless in their vitriol and destructiveness. They have all but destroyed the CL open forums with their rancor.

The way they absolutely endlessly parrot right wing talking points, perfectly, leads me to believe they are paid shills. Not sure by whom.

But please don't pretend to be shocked by this, craig.
by a journalist
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 12:32 PM
Craig, I nominate this for "The Best of Craigslist."

This is simply another phenomenon the media has to be vigilant about.
Will the author of this article please contact me?
Don't fear that I may be the "enemy." I am part of the fightback against wicked, overbearing government. If you don't believe me, go to google and check out my article. Use these exact search words: Larry Williams tax cheat Linda Jolley
my phones: 650-630-3021; 650-364-1143
by Smitty
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 1:10 PM
Can we please have more information? Google searches for "Tomkins and Scott" brings up nothing except for these posts. Where are they located? What is there phone number? How would a person hire this "Black PR" firm?

Please provide more information. There is nothing to back this story up. Perhaps Leo Wanta works there ;-)
by Questioner
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 1:46 PM
without craigslist knowing? Are they complicit?
by Smitty
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 1:55 PM
You stated:

"Many of our campaigns involve what is known as "black PR" - a covert type of marketing campaign designed to influence and sway public opinion through covert means."

--Isn't this what PR is? Swaying public opinions is what PR is meant to do. There is nothing covert or "black" about flagging a craigslist posting. It doesn't matter who does the flagging.

"Although many of the techniques we use are not specifically in violation of the law, the fact that many of the clients we have give us money for black PR campaigns is."

--Huh? This statement is contradictory. Maybe we need a definition of what a "black PR" campaign is as opposed to a regular PR campaign.

"I can tell you that the agency of the city of San Francisco which contracted us is not the only government agency to be engaging in black PR operations."

--Please tell us which agency of the city of San Francisco contracted you.

"If you knew the full list of agencies hired by us and sister firms you would be absolutely shocked."

--Yes, please give us the full list of names of the agencies hired by you and your sister firms. This would help back up your story.

"Information is power and the powers that be fully realize this, which is why they are willing to devote multi-million dollar budgets to covert campaigns like ours to distort and funnel public perceptions in ways that they consider appropriate."

--If the City is spending multi-millions to fund a project of flagging craigslist postings I'm sure the taxpayers would be up in arms. I'd be pissed if I knew that they were spending the money made from my many parking tickets to pay firms like yours to flag craigslist postings.

Your story is highly doubtful with nothing to back it up and provides no way to check facts. People, please remember - just because you read it on the internet doesn't make it true.



by Smitty
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 2:35 PM
"Hire professionals if you really want to learn more about T&C LLC."

--This is a cop-out. If you have any information please share it. I love a good consipiracy as much as anyone but this story, as it stands, is only a troll.
by Visitor
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 2:47 PM
Smitty -

No cop-out,...I'm simply someone who stumbled upon this thread, found it interesting to some extent, and frankly, thought your reply earlier was on the mark. I don't have any information on this whatsoever, but simply offered my previous posting as suggestion to those who would banter on about this forever, without simply investigating it in a logical manner. Perhaps people on these blogs just enjoy bantering back and forth, ....I don't know - didn't mean to offend. I did find it interesting however that my first post was redacted. Ironic,..no?
by Smitty
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 3:05 PM
Visitor,

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought you may have some info - sorry. I think the Tomkins firm may have flagged your previous posting!

By the way, if the City is paying a firm multi-millions to flag craigslist postings they could certainly hire me. I'm independent and would only charge half of what they're currently paying. And I wouldn't tell a soul, unlike the poster above.

by Visitor
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 3:10 PM
Smitty -

Are you employed by Slate, or a moderator in some fashion? If so, is a Google search the extent of your investigative/vetting repertoire?

I'm a newbie here, but your comments tell on you. Young, impressionable, idealistic and a bit of a parrot.

That's ok,.....you'll get over it - We all do. :)

Cheers!
by Smitty
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 8:51 PM
Hi Visitor,

Nope - I'm not employed by Slate or a moderator. I've never posted here before. I think Google is a usually a pretty good resource but you're right - it's not the be-all-to-end-all when investigating. Since the original poster didn't give much to go on it was a good place to start.

Any PR firm would and should have at least a website or some mention somewhere on the internet. When the only mention that Google brings up is the posting here, well it looks a little suspicious.

I think that anyone who believes the original poster based on only the information in the post is probably young, impressionable, idealistic and a bit of a monkey. There is nothing in the post that can be verified.

Maybe you work for Fox news? Or just gullible. Did you know that gullible is not a word that can be found in the dictionary? Check it out.
by Visitor
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 10:19 PM
Smitty -

Very good! I LOVE the Gullible comment. You almost had me there for a second. :)

Have a good one.

Cheers!
by Smitty
Saturday Aug 5th, 2006 11:55 PM
Hi Visitor,

As the teachings of Buddha say, things are not what they seem nor are they otherwise.

Its been fun bantering back and forth with you.

Have a nice weekend.
by Voice of Reason
Sunday Aug 6th, 2006 4:50 AM
To find the Truth and join others that want Freedom, Truth and Love to reign, instead of debts, crime, lies and fear, go to jahtruth.co.uk

That web site tells you everything you need to know to get on the Way of fighting evil in all of its forms, one of which is described by this article.

Moderator: leave this message here and check out the site, don't scan it - read it. It is very literal and there is huge community support behind it. Join us.
by jahred
Sunday Aug 6th, 2006 9:20 AM
Seems this article has been pulled off of craiglist..

by dig deeper
Sunday Aug 6th, 2006 3:01 PM
"Any PR firm would and should have at least a website or some mention somewhere on the internet."

Nope, sorry--not "every PR firm" gets mentioned online. If you or your PR firm were steadfastly engaging in what amounts to speech and information-cleansing at taxpayer expense, I imagine you'd want to remain under the radar, too.

Google isn't the be-all and end-all of the Internet. I hope you don't think Wikipedia gets everything right, too.

That said, PR is just that---PR. But your tax dollars should not support the suppression of all POVs. That is NOT the same thing as "PR".

Please try not to dismiss a notion so easily next time. Your POV might be next...

by Slamboni
Sunday Aug 6th, 2006 3:45 PM

I'm just shocked that all these posters are shocked by this! In this cynical day and age of Bush, Fox News, and even Rumsfeld a few years OPENLY asking the feds to set up a "Dept of Propaganda"--can you REALLY be shocked by this article?

Big PR firms work for all the big cities, the feds, big corporations...it's all about image and damage control, baby. Spin, spin, SPIN!!!!! Get used to it. It ain't gonna change. And will probably get more extreme in the coming years ahead.

Like the old saying goes: don't believe ANY of what you hear and only a fraction of what you see!

-Slamboni








by xray
Sunday Aug 6th, 2006 6:36 PM
this happens all the time and everywhere and this so-called company is just one of many....some are military units, church people, and cops out of work collecting white welfare for dhs monitoring

duh

...usually the activity amounts to BURYING something in an avalanche of postings

i always know when i am about to hit paydirt while dumpster diving at indy

there will be huge amounts of reptitous, usually zionist, information piled on after the goody gets trashed

fyi

you people are really behind the times arent you?

b
by far reaching
Monday Aug 7th, 2006 6:50 AM
this far reaching and long term plan by bush and his perverted crew includes spam, and is actively promoted in most fundamental churches across the usa.

the same types that burned the library at alexandria

by Craig Newmark
(craig [at] craigslist.org) Monday Aug 7th, 2006 1:27 PM
I contacted the guy, he admitted it's a hoax.

However, it's a real phenomenon, check patriotproject.com for article re swiftboaters and fls-dci.

Craig
by hunted
Monday Aug 7th, 2006 2:45 PM
Don't think this is unique to SF. In Southern California it is worse. Half the cops are on the take , the other half are too stupid or cowardly to act and the summer girls are showing up on rape.com, tortured and threatened with retaliation if they say anything. Follow the money: regional collaborating white slavery with cop protection and la Mafia; someone I knew hunted them until he dissapeared; at the time he told me he had recieved death threats and for reporting it to the pigs, was under investigation.
by Don Lee
Monday Aug 7th, 2006 4:21 PM
I've had postings on craigslist that were totally innocent flagged, and I have no doubts at all that people are doing so maliciously.

just go to usweb.com and read the concentrated evil.

myspace was plagued with self-appointed censors too, and Tom had to take steps, but then he sold the site.

craigslist has some serious problems, and I will no longer utilize it. I prefer to PAY, so that I have some rights to my posts.

DL
US Navy Vet
"I fought for THIS?"

by Wingnut
Monday Aug 7th, 2006 7:32 PM
The way they absolutely endlessly parrot right wing talking points, perfectly, leads me to believe they are paid shills. Well at least they're getting paid for doing it. The moonbats endlessly parrot the talking points of the left (somewhat less than perfectly as they're under the influence of drugs, or stupid, or both) and they don't get paid one red cent.
by John
Tuesday Aug 8th, 2006 9:58 AM
Funny that as soon as this happens you immediately blame the "right." Last I checked the "left" was in charge of SF and they are the ones hiring the firm for black PR....
by me
Tuesday Aug 8th, 2006 11:11 PM
very few words

lots of wisdom

the internet is the next library to go ... and all they gotta do is pull the plug :o)

and in the darkness bind them ...
by Joe
Wednesday Mar 7th, 2007 11:34 PM
How can you flag a Post on your own? It takes a lot more than one flag to remove a Post.
by a nutter
(o123tooeasy [at] yahoo.com) Wednesday Jun 20th, 2007 5:11 PM
I have no doubt this article is true.

It is easy to flag down an ad by yourself. In fact, so simple, it's no wonder that Craig Newmark himself is trying to cover this up. Couldn't be any more obvious if you ask me.

Do a search for ANOMITY PROXY FREE - then copy/paste the ad you want flagged off. Use a new proxy for each flag. VIOLA!!

Different categories, Different cities require "X" number of flags (proxys).

Craigslist is becoming a joke very quickly - it is absolutely necessary that they hire staff to moderate this site and offer $5 FLAG FREE (staff moderated) ads in many categories.

Check out these GANGS of flaggers that sit in public forums and flag all day long as a group of cyber terrorists. The kicker is that CRAIGSLIST ALLOWS IT.

http://forums.craigslist.org/?forumID=5194
http://forums.craigslist.org/?forumID=4915
by Sorry dude
Wednesday Jul 11th, 2007 9:34 PM
Sorry, but this has the ring of conspiracy to it. Craig = good. Y'all = suspicious.
by liberalsandconservativessuck
Sunday Aug 5th, 2007 4:01 PM
first of all, paid internet shilling does indeed happen, whether or not this article was a hoax. from "blog warriors" to spammers, from big biz to scammers.

and as for craig newmark, he's opted for the elite global management route, chilling with the elite (and proto-elite) at the aspen institute and choosing none other than madeleine albright as his personal mentor.

ms. albright, as you might recall, was the secretary of state under bill clinton who went on 60 minutes television news and was asked what she thought of the DEATHS OF HALF A MILLION CHILDREN in iraq due to the sanctions imposed by her administration via the UN.

she did not deny the number, nor did she backpedal, nor did she hesitate. she stated simply, "WE THINK THE PRICE WAS WORTH IT."

you can spin mr. newmark's apparent disdain for cashing in on craigslist beyond what he already has any way you want, but his association with known mass murderers tells the tale better than anything.

for those of you keeping score at home:

under w. bush, 600,000 "excess iraqi deaths" due to war (lancet survey)
under clinton, 1,500,000 "excess iraqi deaths" due to sanctions (columbia university), at least 500,000 of them children, as admitted by secretary of state madeleine albright on national television.
by Cheryl Maietta
(allinharmony [at] gmail.com) Sunday Aug 5th, 2007 8:32 PM
I post regularly to Craigslist and I am absolutely certain that Craigslist is 'managed' for 'damge control' of all kinds.

Yes, there are paid posters, lots, and there are people paid to monitor the site and delete whatever exposes the basically NAZI (corporate/militarism based upon violence, supremacism and deception) infrastructure of government and the extremely invasive militarized police state that regulates all of our lives.

If that statement was planted to 'off-foot' the posters... how sad. Those of us who use the service are sadly accustomed to information posts being flagged over and over again.

See my latest post under SF musical instruments:

RE:What's with all the kooks posting today?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: sale-390215300 [at] craigslist.org
Date: 2007-08-05, 7:54PM PDT


The person who posted this is undoubtedly the same person who wrote to us earlier today in regard to a Martin guitar which we offered for sale at what we felt was a fair price... and then used our reply to post something meant to embarrass us personally...

I replied to that post and that reply was subsequently flagged by the same person (see flagged and removed post at the bottom of this post).

All of this does seem quite kooky doesn't it? So, I thought you would be interested in the admission from someone who was paid to do this sort harassment/censorship of craigslist and other posting sites.

As many who post to craigslist have surmised, there are agencies (and agents) paid to engage in censorship and harassment of citizens going about mundane affairs... even posting guitars for sale!

Here is an excerpt from her statement (remember, it is the military that is the major user/abuser of these tactics both here and abroad):

I Was Hired By SF to Delete Postings

I can tell you that the agency of the city of San Francisco which contracted us is not the only government agency to be engaging in black PR operations. If you knew the full list of agencies hired by us and sister firms you would be absolutely shocked. If the average citizen understood the extent to which the information being presented to him or her is being filtered and skewed they would be up in arms immediately.

Posted Aug 5, 2007 07:56 AM PST
Category: COVER-UP/DECEPTIONS

And this is the flagged post:

Date: 2007-08-05 14:09:23
PostID: 390005499

Title: (musical instruments) REre: custom stalker

Posting our phone number on our website DOES NOT further expose us or invite additional stalking behavior. And, it makes it possible for anyone interested in our information to get in touch with us so that we may be able to answer any questions. We are very serious anti-violence researchers and communicators and I personally have been a researcher on topics related to violence, war, militarism, supremacism and racism, and issues of personal freedom since pre-adolescence.

That I am a stalking victim is not so remarkable considering my history of honesty and dedication to a gentler more conscious life experience for all. We are a military society. And, stalking group activities in the US are better coordinated than they ever were in the KKK controlled regions of the US in the thirties or in East Germany at the heyday of the STASI (15% of the population was reportedly involved at some level).

Victims' (or targets as they are called) personal locations, movements, phone numbers, email addresses, etc. are all a part of the information shared amongst those involved in the stalking. Frankly, I think you are involved and already are well aware of this.

Targeted victims are not in danger from the general public (no reason to hide information from the general public) unless they have been actively riled by the spreading of false and slanderous statements, stories, etc.

Indeed, targets are routinely slandered to cause a separation between them and the general public (those not directly involved in the stalking).

One of my acquaintances, a rather famous physicist recently reported to me after hearing what had happened to me since we last worked together that when he was working for the DoD, he opposed a multi-billion dollar Boeing project on the grounds that it was unworkable. His campaigning to have the project scrapped (and save tax payer dollars) meant that he was labeled insane, drugged and held in an asylum and threatened with a lobotomy. Needless to say, he never made that mistake again.

Because he is one of the secretaries of IEEE, I also asked him to poke around and see what he could uncover about my mother, Frances Hugle. He concurred that murder was highly likely given the sensitive nature of her projects and the value of her discoveries. He later reported that he had learned she had become vocal about her technologies being used for human implants.

There is massive secrecy in regard to the IC development and her name has been wiped from the record. I was young when she died and quite disinterested in technology. But, I have recently uncovered the history of an orchestrated deception equally as brutal, ill-conceived and disastrous as 9/11.

Stop living in the made up world of TV. Criminality is the rule in government and secrecy is a major tool to keep it that way… and those of us working to alert the public are hardly nuts… calling us determined, responsible and courageous is certainly more apropriate.

re: custom stalker



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply to: see below

Date: 2007-08-05, 1:14PM PDT





good grief.



people on the internet claiming to be stalking victims - who post their phone numbers online for all to see - are absolutely hilarious.



i took your phone number from your listing just now - and now i know your full name and could easily find out where you live.



you only have yourself to blame.



i also found this to go with it:



"Today, I live in a garage in Santa Clara. I endure break-ins, slander, constant stalking... I was drugged before coming here while in Chile (how I got there is itself a story that I have written in some detail, a story of complete stalking, theft, etc.) and sent into a terrifying night of mass stalking. And it is very clear to me that those participating in these assaults are not in any way aware of my true history or character, yet, those setting the stage, have no doubt of my ethical nature and the value of my creative abilities.



I am a vegan. And, slander is rife through that community as well though the nature of it, I still do not know. Slanderous things spread where ever I go as evidenced by positive relations suddenly (very suddenly) going sour. This is secret police stalking (hyper) action by those who are committing and have committed crimes equal to the worst ever known."



~~



*long whistle*



just a suggestion: if you are truly concerned for your safety - keep your phone number a secret next time.




it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests









What's with all the kooks posting today?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: sale-390104666 [at] craigslist.org
Date: 2007-08-05, 4:52PM PDT


Go over to the R@R section and have at it! Can't find a good deal in the musical instrument section today for all the freaking kooks posting wacked out garbage. ZIP IT!!!

by Cheryl Maietta
(allinharmony [at] gmail.com) Sunday Aug 5th, 2007 8:40 PM
Someone(s) just couldn't wait to make my point!

The post I shared at the bottom of my (just posted) comments was just flagged by Craigslist's monitors and removed!!

Folks... there is hyperactive censorship on Craigslist.

Would you like to see my file of flagged posts from Craigslist? Each and every one has something to do with exposing totalitarianism and its long running operations in the US.
by abc
Tuesday Aug 7th, 2007 1:07 AM
Informationclearinghouse.info doesnt erase yr posts but wont let you back on the page if they dont like what you say.
Please remember: put no one on a pedestal.
by joombo the talking fish
Tuesday Aug 7th, 2007 9:35 AM
There are many reasons things get censored. Internal censoring to keep the site from spinning too much in a particular direction, or just to keep it mainstream enough to remain a viable business. (otherwise no more site! it costs money!) Individuals not wanting their property value to go down removing negative posts about their neighborhoods. Religious nuts. Paid shills. I'm sure even gov't propaganda. But it is foolish to lump it all into one big conspiracy tent. The results may all be the same (censorship), but the causes are many and not just one big conspiracy.
when someone does a job for three years, and then comes out and say how evil their boss was, it makes me wonder
by Meerkat
Sunday Sep 16th, 2007 4:45 PM
PR is usually not kept secret, and doesnt do things like this. This is definitely black ops if I have ever seen it. It is a negative campaign, used to purposefully hurt a website. Generating press for a new company you are starting, and trying to destroy someone else's ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

The statement was trying to say, YES we DO DO ILLEGAL THINGS FOR MONEY!!! THATS what the black PR is.

I do not see why anyone would tell you who the people were, to protect themselves. Thats obvious. I know I WOULDNT TELL YOU!!


Again, why would they put themselves in such danger? EVERYTHING can be traced online. Directly to your location! Come on!



You're SURE the taxpayers would be up in arms, well YOU"RE RIGHT!!! WE ARE!! Well the ones that know about it. You're talking about GOVERNMENT. THE ULTIMATE POWER. So what, do you know everything the government is keeping secret, then why dont you post all that INFO! Most people are sheep and stuff like this is very easy to cover up.

If you don't already KNOW that the cities and federal governments are spending your money in ridiculous ways that you'll never know about, well then you're blind. YOU SHOULD ALREADY BE PISSED. I KNOW I AM and yes, millions of others in this country.

Reading something online doesnt make it true, then why believe what YOU SAID!!??

It sounds to me like you might just WORK for this company and you guys are trying to cover your tracks.

The story is not doubtfull at all, not if your eyes are even SLIGHTLY open. It sounds like it makes a lot of sense. It would explain alot of thing also.






craigslist postings in oklahoma are deleted by censors (craigs editors) before they get posted, but the editors send a message saying it "was flagged by the craigslist community",
hooee - I watched a few messages day before yesterday on craigslist:
pictures of a pervert naked were left alone and posted and are still there (on craigslist);
yet
a posting that a free item was no longer available was supposedly 'flagged' ... NOT - it never got posted; I checked every couple minutes.... but the originator was emailed by the editor that the post had been flagged by the craigslist community !
This happened with several posts in free stuff and in rants and raves.
Some got posted, then deleted by the editor apparently.
Some never got posted, so COULD NOT HAVE BEEN FLAGGED by readers - they were censored by craigslist editors. FOR EXAMPLE(I don't remember if this one actually got posted or not before it was deleted; some did, some did not get past the censors although no foul language or pic were used)

From: editor [at] craigslist.org
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 01:31:11 UT
Subject: flagged & removed: xxxxxxxxxx (free stuff) Someones messing with free stuff and rants and raves posts....
Message:


Your posting has been flagged for removal.

Approximately 98% of postings removed are in violation of craigslist posting guidelines.

Please make sure you are abiding by all posted site rules, including our terms of use:
http://www.craigslist.org/about/terms.of.use.html
If you need help figuring out why your posting was flagged, try asking in our flag help forum: http://forums.craigslist.org/?forumID=3. Include posting title, body, category, city, how often posted, any images, HTML markup, etc.

If your posting was wrongly flagged down (2% of flagged ads are) please accept our apologies and feel free to repost.

Sorry for the hassle, and thanks for your understanding.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2007-11-11 17:21:47
PostID: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Title: (free stuff) Someones messing with free stuff and rants and raves posts....
who's in charge ?
by DOGEATDOG
Sunday Dec 23rd, 2007 4:30 PM
FACTS
1. If 2% were flagged down you would never see a

complaint anywhere
More like 60% are flagged down.
2. If people want to pay for the free section to reserve their

space without getting flagged it should be an option.
3. Cl should target the Asian ads since they are the ones

flooding the board with the same exact sentence every 15

minutes using a auto poster software.
4. Web sites are fighting for the freedom to use the net as

we choose.
After dealing with Cl for the past 3 years, I find the help is

rude,tackless,refuse to help but make people turn away

from using CL.
They tag team you and flagg you more than you were before

you asked for help.
5. The way the rules are on Cl any ad could have reason to

be flagged and if you don't like it to bad.
6. I never hear any complaints on the anonomys emails

which CL provides. The system is used in the most

negative abusive cut throat ways.
7. If you want to make up lies about anyone write a review

and hide behind it.
8. Why would CL provide this anonymous email to lie about

another. The public has no idea if it really happened?
Who is writing it?
What their motive is ?
How many times will they continue writing on someone day

after day until a person developes a horrible reputation.
All this damage without anyone knowing one person one

email hiding behind many different anonomys emails

provided by Cl.
If someone wants to say something honest then let it come

from their own email address.
The public should be able to see how many reviews were

comming from the same ip or email over and over.
I remember one person having conversations with

themselves as they were writing reviews signed by different

names and no way of confirming who the people were.
9. Try removing one of those reviews while asking the

abuse team to remove it. Fat chance that will be resolved.

Automated reply is the extent of this dead end.
10. Not to many people are aware of a flagging software

that can prevent you from posting from your computer

anymore. I have ran across several people who have

access to this $800.00 software.
11. Keep in mind it's not you or your postings anymore.

Flagging Software abusing CL users, Competition abusing

the users, or flag groups taking revenge because their ad

has been deleated to, big companies flagging for what ever

reason it is.
12. I never cared what others posted in my section. All I

ever wanted was to keep my own ad up.
13. I wanted to confirm that for the past month my ads

appear like they are posted but never shown to the public.

When they are visible form time to time they won't stay up

longer than 2 minutes.
14. Then you wonder why we are left with no other choice

but purchase Automatic Posters that do bulk posts do to

the flagging issue.
15. Now we not only have the flagging issue but the auto

posters abusing the board
16. FINAL CONCLUSION IS THIS,
SINCE CL SOLD MOST OF IT'S SHARE TO EBAY, EBAY WANTS TO FLAG DOWN CL USERS TO SELL THEIR ITEMS ON EBAY. READ MOST OF THE STAFF'S COMMENTS. ALWAYS USING THE WORD EBAY TO REMIND THE PERSON TO SELL THEIR ITEMS ON EBAY INSTEAD OF DEALING WITH ALL THE PROBLEMS POSTING ON CL.
AS FOR MR.NEWMAN HIMSELF SHAME ON HIM. HE IS CREATING FLAGGING SOFTWARE, BULK SOFTWARE, AND SELLING IT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, MAKING A FORTUNE. MORE MONEY SELLING SOFTWARE IN SUCH DEMAND RATHER THAN THE HASSLES OF INDIVIDUAL POSTS DAY AFTER DAY, DEALING WITH EACH AND EVERY SECTION ALONG WITH STATE WILLING TO PAY FOR ADS THAN DEAL WITH THE HASSLE OF KEEPING THEIR POST UP HOUR AFTER HOUR.

SO THAT IS MY FINAL WORD. YOU CAN WAKE UP TO REALITY OR FIND OUT THE HARD WAY ON YOUR OWN. JUST PREPARE FOR THE RIDE AND DON'T CRY LATER WHEN YOU BUSINESS IS AT RISK BECAUSE OF ONE ASSHOLE THAT WON'T GET OFF YOUR ASS UNTIL THEY RUIN YOU OR YOUR BUSINESS TO THE WORST POINT. THEY WILL TARGET THEIR NEXT VICTIM WHILE YOUR OUT OF CONTROL WILLING TO PURCHASE ANY OF THE SOFTWARE ABOVE JUST TO GET AHEAD AGAIN.
WHEN YOU DO PURCHASE THE SOFTWARE YOUR IN HAPPY MODE FOR THE FIRST MONTH UNTIL YOUR UNABLE TO FIND YOUR POSTS ANYWHERE ON THE BOARD WITH OR WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE. IT'S ALL BULLSHIT! SCAM AND A FIGHT FOR SURVIVAL. YOU WILL FIND YOURSELF DOING EXACTLY WHAT YOU TRIED FIGHTING AGAINST ALL THIS TIME. YOUR LEFT WITH NO OTHER CHOICE. IT HAS BECOME A WAR!
by Vlad Mayzel
Tuesday Dec 25th, 2007 5:55 AM
Hi,

I am looking for more information on the subject but only if VERIFIABLE PROOF is available.

It is no secret that part of the CL's community is at war with competitors and the CL itslef. Competitors flag each other and overpost, sinking each other to the bottom of the list. Not to mention commercial spammers, scammers and predators and a variety of software available to cheat the CL's system. No wonder CL's staff has hard time keeping the system healthy. I wonder if it can remain free for much longer while been so much abused?

I also wonder if there is another component here since eBay owns it. It looks logical to me that it is to eBay's advantage to kill free craigs list. Isn't it why they bought it, because it was becoming too much of a competitor, or to be more correct was simply taking away too much business? Then isn't eBay at a conflict of interest (i am not talking legally of course)? Doesn't it look to eBay's advantage to sabotage CraigsList to have more people to turn away from its free use and start using eBay more?

Anyway, if anyone has any more PROVEN FACTS - i am very interested to know.

p.s. is it really Craig himself who posted here or it was an impersonator?


by anonymous mouse
Sunday Jan 6th, 2008 12:01 PM
Craigslist has at least 2 strategies when dealing with posters who post controversial subject matter:
1) flag or remove it. You usually get a notice email that says it was flagged. If Craigslist staff removed the post, you can "404 not found".

2) Nothing at all. The post goes into a black hole. You can click on the "post/edit/delete" and it shows the time posted, number and message, but it will never appear on CL. If you try to reload the message, you get the error that you are making multiple posts. They keep the original censored post in limbo and prevent you from posting again.

Craigslist has corporate censorship.

Try posting something about AIPAC or Haliburton and you will see. You will be censored.
by anonymous mouse
Sunday Jan 6th, 2008 12:02 PM
interesting, I just posted and several sentences of my post dissapeared.
fascinating
by DREWSKI
Friday Feb 6th, 2009 9:41 AM
SOMEONE NEEDS TO COME UP WITH A BETTER SITE THAN CRAIGSLIST WHERE THE TRUTH CAN'T BE SILENCED AND EVERYONE HAS FREEDOM OF POST/SPEECH.
by Peter
Friday Sep 4th, 2009 5:47 AM
The following posting of mine never appeared on Craigslist. It's a response on previous posting with complains about ridiculously low compensations offered on Craigslist for IT job.

"I think you underestimate that type of posting. They are not so stupid to offer it seriously. I believe (conspiracy theory!?) it's done intentionally to undermine and sabotage IT work on a global scale - Indian, Russian, Chinese outsourcing is not enough to keep the cost of our work down. The economy on the big scale should be readjusted (imho in proper direction) if we will be paid fairly in accordance with typical labor/compensation parameters applied in any other occupation.
Now, I would suggest placing the opposite type of requests where the compensation would be defined at unreasonable high level. Any suggestions? "
I can confirm this story about covert companies FLAGGING and REMOVING ADS for their own personal agenda.

I am a Realtor and I have used Craigslist to obtain nearly all of my clients. Over the years, every now and again, my ads would get 'FLAGGED and REMOVED' by the so-called "Community" and the only reason I can determine is that there is someone, probably a competitor, hate to say it, another REALTOR who knows that my ADS may be taking clients away from him or her. I didn't really mind the constant HARRASSMENT because my ADS remained up long enough for me to obtain enough business to make a living.

Recently, probably due to the worsening Real Estate market these harrassing and highly suspicious FLAGGING and REMOVING by my competitors has gotten to the point where I cannot keep one of my postings up longer than about TWENTY MINUTES. By then, these unscrupulous business entities who refuse to identify themselves to me, have gotten together the quorum they need to remove my AD.

I have complained to Craig Newmark, owner of the site several times about this problem explaining that I feel these people are my competition and all I am trying to do is support my family. Craig always replies with verbal doodles that I cannot understand at all, for example, "Uhm OK" was his last response to my complaints, as if to say he really doesn't care.

I think there is a legal as well as moral and ethical duty for a site like Craigslist to enforce something that resembles order and common sense, if not the law in these matters. I would like to hear from anyone else who has a similar problem with Craigslist. Seems to me the greater community should ban together and help them make for a better experience. I am after all, trying to improve my own economic situation, which in turn, sells homes, takes them off the market and thus contributes to an improving economy. I'm doing my part, but it's hard when you have to battle unscrupulous and determined foe.

The real problem here is that I'm only guessing that this harassment is from a competitor. According to what this author of this article is telling us, it could be our own government working against us.

Enquiring minds want to know. If you can shed any light on this situation, please let me know.

by Eddy Parisi
(motorama4294 [at] gmail.com) Monday Dec 7th, 2009 3:35 PM
Dear Mr. Craig,
You have this powerfull site that racks in billions of hits per month, you have taken over the advertising industry with your free site. Businesses rely on your site since it is truely the only place to get response. News papers that businesses did advertise with are useless and the papers are even struggling. What I want to say to you is that you allow this melicious flagging, you know it goes on, you probably know the busineses' need your site but you do nothing to help them. Why??? Cant you charge for an ad now? Cant you come with a business section?? Cant you change the flagging policy to something different. If you just charged $3.00 for an ad it would stay up on the site, you would be a billionaire and the melicious activity you allow to take place in your site would end. Either way, your site is great and powerfull but needs some SERIUOS change! You are welcome to contact me.
by House Hunter
Saturday Feb 6th, 2010 3:46 PM
As a house hunter in the area, I know at least part of the reason your ads are being marked as spam: they are. Not only do you post the same ads over and over (sometimes you have had 10-20 active with the same information at one time), your ads are not relevant to the category you have chosen. Since you do not have any specific real estate to list (no addresses, prices, etc.), your ad belongs in the Services area of Craigslist. I think if you posted in the correct area you may find your ad remains.
by Instrumentals
Thursday Mar 3rd, 2011 3:19 PM
Use web proxies to flag on your own, make sure the posts deserve to be flagged.
- Sam @ http://www.wesnilemusic.com
by Ovidian
Thursday Jun 23rd, 2011 12:06 PM
Hi,

Thank you for your post. I don't know if I should I hope it's real or hope that it's not real. Do you know the history of The United States of America? Have you heard the saying, "The early bird gets the worm?"
Wikipedia William Randolph Hearst. And that is another source of managed information, Wikipedia. But basic facts are that WRH made lots of money (which is just fine) by prospecting and making railroads and such, and this goes back to the 1600's and 1700's. Well, with all that money, he made some newspapers and they shut out the hemp industry and that led to criminalizing weed. That aside, it has turned into unlimited power and authority to the point where most news articles and news stories on tv are completely fabricated, and most real news items are never make it to the mass public.

Why did it take you three years to conclude what you were doing was unethical? Were you agonizing over it for three years or did you just suddenly realize that coercive tactics are not the best use of your intellect? Either way, I commend you! Someone else will gladly take your place, but at least you, for your own spiritual growth and moral code, are being true and honest to yourself! This is what motivates others to seek truth and light rather than lies and darkness.

I suggest you read up on the creation of the US monetary system, and the origin of money itself. You will see that the current US dollar has no real value, other than population control.

If someone was spreading slander then the city of San Francisco or San Diego or what have you would sue, right? So if people are just sharing their opinions, then they should have the right to do so. But what are the legal terms of this? Do you know? Can craigslist control what is on their website? I think they can. I think they could make a lot of money by allowing people to post whatever they want, and then having people pay them to remove things they don't like. There was a nasty little guy on Oprah just raving about how he this site where people posted pictures and slander of others, and he made them pay him to remove the content. People committed suicide over some of the posts, and this guy was like, so what, I like to buy cars and watches. It is the monetary system. It takes negative energy and put its in a tangible form. Stay with me, my credentials are below. You see, money is a form of energy, read this brief explanation: http://www.michaelppowers.com/prosperity/e-matters.html

So energy is good/bad....dark/light...high vibration/low vibration...so you see our current monetary system is low vibration, dark energy, and it is causing greed, death, and destruction worldwide.

You did nothing wrong by working for them for 3 yrs---it was the only way that you could see more clearly your path in life and sometimes we must experience darkness to recognize light.

Thank you for your truth. This has been going on since the dawn of man though....people used to "shoot the messenger."

Kind Regards,
(Bachelors in Industrial and Labor Relations, currently work for large academic publisher)
new york, ny
by TJ
Monday Jul 21st, 2014 10:08 PM
The U.S. is not losing its democracy. It has ALREADY LOST IT.
by Dawnatilla
Sunday Apr 3rd, 2016 6:27 AM
STOP the bullshit craig. the last thing that was is a HOAX!! this is how the world works! hey Craig..I just called someone, they said you admitted you were not a 100 percent awesome guy! that you were a hoax too!!!
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