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The Hamas Victory: Green Dawn, Red Dusk?
Toufic Haddad, The Electronic Intifada, 31 January 2006
Out with the old, in with the new: Yasser Arafat's Fateh party was crushed by Hamas in last week's legislative elections (Magnus Johansson/Ma'an News)
27 January 2006 — Less than 24 hours after the sweeping Hamas victory in the Palestinian Legislative Council elections, it is clear that the consequences of this event are likely to be so profound that they are capable of bringing about a political tsunami once the wave finally reaches shore. Although the final implications of the elections are yet to be seen regarding how Hamas will form its governing coalition, what this means for the "peace process", and how this will affect Palestinian-Israeli and Palestinian-World politics, certain things can already be deduced from the structure of prevailing power relations. That is to say, the dominant Israeli discourse integrally embedded within the rubric and actions of the US "war against terror" are already beginning to frame the way in which these events are narrated: the Hamas victory ushers in the definitive "Islamization of the conflict" in which Israel, and indirectly "all Western countries", are confronted by a war for "elementary values of democracy and sacredness of life". Within this logic, Israel must reasonably wage an "eternal war" with "no compromises", "against religious extremism", while attempting to preserve the values which "separate us from them". After all, who can reasonably expect negotiations with those who send suicide bombers, and "call for Israel's destruction"?
Tragically, the wide scale dehumanization and racism pitted against Islamist movements since September 11th across the world has been so successful that wide sections of the US Left will likewise fall prisoner to similar logic. It is therefore necessary to immediately and clearly articulate an accurate understanding of what the Hamas victory means both for the powers that be, as well as for activists concerned with the fate of the Palestinian national movement, and all subsequent anti-racist, anti-colonialist, and anti-imperialist movements.
Why Hamas Won
Hamas won a resounding victory commanding 76 seats in the 132 Person Legislative Council. Together with the support of 4 additional independent candidates who won, and were backed by Hamas, the 'Change and Reform' slate of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Harakat Al Moqawama Al Islamiyya) garnered a total of 80 seats - 60.6 % of the high voter turn out (75% of the eligible voters) and almost double the 43 seats of Fateh. What does this represent in the algebra of regional and world forces?
Defeating Fateh
No doubt the clearest message the election results show is that the Palestinian electorate resoundingly said "No More!" to the ruling Fateh party. Fateh's extended 40 year hegemony over Palestinian national decision making and financial resources; its undemocratic decision making processes both vis-a-vis other factions and within Fateh itself; its poor political calculations and performance; and its latent financial corruption, in the end created more enemies than friends within Palestinian society. Ever since the Intifada began, and particularly after the death of Yasser Arafat, the glue that once kept Fateh together has dissolved as the contradictions it oversaw bubbled to the surface. Simultaneously, Hamas built itself upon the organizational framework initially laid down by the West Bank and Gaza Strip Islamic Brotherhood movements in previous years. Its launching in 1987 within the vibrant theatre of Palestinian politics, forced fundamental changes upon the organization which over time resulted in its growth into a dynamic, disciplined, democratic, centralized party structure. Moreover its political platform cleverly shadowed all the political areas where Fateh and the Oslo Accords retreated with respect to Palestinian national rights: the right of return of Palestinian refugees, Jerusalem, and the unity of the entire Palestinian people. Despite being the largest employer in the Occupied Territories; despite being the only major Palestinian party not on the CIA's top 20 International Terrorist Group list; despite being the "one with all the connections" to 'international legitimacy', Fateh was finally punished for its cynicism, corruption, double speak, and internalized defeatism, both politically and organizationally.
A Moral Victory for the Resistance and for "the Party Serves the People"
But the Hamas victory is not just about negation. Nor is it merely about the oft-cited social welfare network it oversees. Although there are significant socio-economic reasons behind Hamas' success, this simplification assumes that Palestinians are simply so desperate that they vote for whoever feeds them, and are devoid of any critical political faculties.
Far more significant to Hamas' victory is what it represents politically, particularly when contrasted with the trajectory of the previous Fateh movement. Hamas represents a definitive departure from the Oslo model and the humiliating false discourse it propagated. Palestinians rejected that they had to be a "partner to peace"; that they were the ones who had to prove that they were not the terrorists; and that "Israeli security and self-defense" was a legitimate premise in the peace process, necessitating all of Israel's subsequent actions. It is precisely this vocabulary which greased the wheels of the machines which actively sought to extinguish the Palestinian national movement for the past 5 years, and colonized Palestinian lands in the West Bank and Gaza for the past 38.
Equally as important was the fact that in the struggle to attain these rights, Hamas articulated an alternative strategy to what it saw as the dead end of Oslo. Hamas preserved and implemented at times, the Palestinian right to resist. This, in the eyes of its US, Israeli and EU detractors, was its gravest sin. Although this resistance may have taken controversial forms, the reality of the matter is that Hamas was never unique in its employment of these methods amongst Palestinian factions, and often proved itself to be far more disciplined in its use of them. Furthermore, in the course of the Intifada, it was not Hamas which began the hostilities (Israel gets credit for that), nor was it the first Palestinian faction to initiate the Intifada's militarization (Fateh's responsibility.)
Only after politically positioning itself upon a firm political base, and articulating a program which protected and sometimes implemented a resistance centered campaign, can Hamas' social works be understood in context. In fact, it is precisely through the consolidation of these first two criteria that Hamas' social welfare networks become transformed from mere charity networks, into instruments for political mobilization. Hamas' victory also exemplified that it is first and foremost the responsibility of the political party to serve its people and not the other way around.
Defeat for US Imperialism and Zionism
Although cynics will no doubt argue that the Hamas victory falls in line with US and Israeli policies to legitimize its future actions, the fact of the matter is that both would have no doubt preferred a Fateh victory. US and Israeli strategies during Oslo were premised around the PA being Israel's security subcontractor. After the Intifada broke out, the US and Israel shifted tack, opting in favor of 'unilateralism' to get their way (as implemented in construction of the massive wall and checkpoint system, and the disengagement from Gaza). As for the Palestinian Authority, it was to be retained only in so far it was to be an object of continued torment -"until the Palestinians turn into Finns", according to Sharon's right hand man Dov Weisglas. This was supposed to free Israel's hand to be able to unilaterally determine Israel's borders, and anything else Israel and the US saw fit.
Although no doubt both Israel and the US have plenty of resources at their expense to exploit the current scenario to their advantage, the Hamas victory is an affront to the politics of how the US and Israel have been running the show for the previous 12 years. Hamas has the potential and desire to reorganize and regroup the Palestinian national movement on a surer footing, stemming the corrosive effects of Fateh's leadership under Oslo and Israel's deliberately destructive tactics against it. Hamas' victory also flies in the face of the Bush doctrine's efforts to 'bring democracy to the Middle East', as though this was to be equated with bringing to power moderate, pro-American regimes. Indeed the contrary has taken place, and it is this model which now shall be held up for movements across the region, eager to push for democracy in their respective countries. No doubt social movements in Egypt, Jordan and a host of other notoriously repressive US sponsored regimes will take note of this 'Arab experiment in democracy'.
A Victory and a Warning
Despite the fact that these elections took place under a brutal occupation and that Israel made no serious concessions to facilitate them; despite the fact that Israel currently holds 9,000 prisoners many of whom are pivotal national leaders in its jails; despite the fact that just months ago, Israel attempted to arrest the entire Hamas list and campaign organizers; despite the millions of dollars pumped directly and indirectly into Fateh's campaign by the US and the EU in a last ditch effort to keep the theater of absurd "peace process" alive - the Palestinian people voted resoundingly for a different future. Hamas should be given credit for politically and organizationally articulating and catalyzing that desire for change. At the same time, it must be noted that Hamas' victory is equally as much a failure for the Palestinian Left, and other secular forces to articulate and organize an attractive alternative. No doubt, the internal debates, and maneuvering on that front are only just beginning.
The Palestinian center of gravity has shifted to Hamas, and all others groupings within the Palestinian arena will be at pains to rearticulate and reorganize themselves if they are to one day seriously challenge them. For the time being however, Hamas will be given time to prove itself in action. At the same time the ballooning of its supporters will also bring with it expectations and political diversity, which the movement itself will also find difficult to navigate.
All this however cannot be decontextualized from what Israel and US will do to ensure that Hamas, like Fateh, cannot bring anything substantial back to its constituency in the form of tangible achievements for Palestinian rights. Indeed, both have already underscored that they will not deal with Hamas "until it recognizes Israel", "accepts the Road Map" and disarms. Furthermore, the US and EU are openly considering cutting relations and funding to the PA, while the major Israeli political parties (Labor, Kadima and Likud) all advocate 'unilateralism' if Hamas is in power (and incidentally, if they are not). These policies alone could spell the end for the PA as we have known it, while unmasking what was always the conditional commitment of these parties to "a peace process". Yet more worrying is the discourse which emerged within hours of the election results from former Israeli Army Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon. Ya'alon argued that what we are witnessing is the creation of "Hamastan, Hizbullahstan and al-Qaedastan" in Gaza, and that Iran is at Israel's doorstep. This discourse, and all similar discourse, truly only has one implication behind it - the desire to justify in advance massacres on a scale never seen in the previous 5 years. Hamas is certainly wary of this possibility, and for that reason will ensure it provides no excuses to bring that reality about. Nonetheless, Israel will be the one who orchestrates this and its timing, though likely not before the March elections for Prime Minister.
In these times of reconfiguring mentalities, Palestine solidarity activists must be consistent in challenging the rote racism and dehumanization of Arabs and Muslims which facilitate these bloody scenarios. Likewise they must argue politically for what is truly at the heart of this election, and that the right to self-determination and political representation is an internal Palestinian matter that does not contravene the over-arching framework within which the conflict must be understood: the fight of the Palestinian people to resist the colonization of their land for the establishment of an exclusivist Jewish state that acts as the watchdog of US imperialism in the region. Though a Hamas victory on some levels may make this task harder, it also crucially brings up so many issues which Palestinian activists must convincingly argue if we are ever to win real gains: challenging the historiography of the Oslo peace process and exposing the US role in supporting the exclusionary Zionist state and its oppressive policies against the Palestinian national movement. The fact that this election result was achieved more or less democratically (although with clear limitations which should not be overlooked) should potentially make our task easier - but only if we know what's at stake. Indeed if Israel is to be prevented from eventually doing what it wants to in Gaza, (as it did to Beirut, the heart of Palestinian organizing from 1970 -1982), then Palestine activists will have much to do in the coming months.
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4434.shtml
27 January 2006 — Less than 24 hours after the sweeping Hamas victory in the Palestinian Legislative Council elections, it is clear that the consequences of this event are likely to be so profound that they are capable of bringing about a political tsunami once the wave finally reaches shore. Although the final implications of the elections are yet to be seen regarding how Hamas will form its governing coalition, what this means for the "peace process", and how this will affect Palestinian-Israeli and Palestinian-World politics, certain things can already be deduced from the structure of prevailing power relations. That is to say, the dominant Israeli discourse integrally embedded within the rubric and actions of the US "war against terror" are already beginning to frame the way in which these events are narrated: the Hamas victory ushers in the definitive "Islamization of the conflict" in which Israel, and indirectly "all Western countries", are confronted by a war for "elementary values of democracy and sacredness of life". Within this logic, Israel must reasonably wage an "eternal war" with "no compromises", "against religious extremism", while attempting to preserve the values which "separate us from them". After all, who can reasonably expect negotiations with those who send suicide bombers, and "call for Israel's destruction"?
Tragically, the wide scale dehumanization and racism pitted against Islamist movements since September 11th across the world has been so successful that wide sections of the US Left will likewise fall prisoner to similar logic. It is therefore necessary to immediately and clearly articulate an accurate understanding of what the Hamas victory means both for the powers that be, as well as for activists concerned with the fate of the Palestinian national movement, and all subsequent anti-racist, anti-colonialist, and anti-imperialist movements.
Why Hamas Won
Hamas won a resounding victory commanding 76 seats in the 132 Person Legislative Council. Together with the support of 4 additional independent candidates who won, and were backed by Hamas, the 'Change and Reform' slate of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Harakat Al Moqawama Al Islamiyya) garnered a total of 80 seats - 60.6 % of the high voter turn out (75% of the eligible voters) and almost double the 43 seats of Fateh. What does this represent in the algebra of regional and world forces?
Defeating Fateh
No doubt the clearest message the election results show is that the Palestinian electorate resoundingly said "No More!" to the ruling Fateh party. Fateh's extended 40 year hegemony over Palestinian national decision making and financial resources; its undemocratic decision making processes both vis-a-vis other factions and within Fateh itself; its poor political calculations and performance; and its latent financial corruption, in the end created more enemies than friends within Palestinian society. Ever since the Intifada began, and particularly after the death of Yasser Arafat, the glue that once kept Fateh together has dissolved as the contradictions it oversaw bubbled to the surface. Simultaneously, Hamas built itself upon the organizational framework initially laid down by the West Bank and Gaza Strip Islamic Brotherhood movements in previous years. Its launching in 1987 within the vibrant theatre of Palestinian politics, forced fundamental changes upon the organization which over time resulted in its growth into a dynamic, disciplined, democratic, centralized party structure. Moreover its political platform cleverly shadowed all the political areas where Fateh and the Oslo Accords retreated with respect to Palestinian national rights: the right of return of Palestinian refugees, Jerusalem, and the unity of the entire Palestinian people. Despite being the largest employer in the Occupied Territories; despite being the only major Palestinian party not on the CIA's top 20 International Terrorist Group list; despite being the "one with all the connections" to 'international legitimacy', Fateh was finally punished for its cynicism, corruption, double speak, and internalized defeatism, both politically and organizationally.
A Moral Victory for the Resistance and for "the Party Serves the People"
But the Hamas victory is not just about negation. Nor is it merely about the oft-cited social welfare network it oversees. Although there are significant socio-economic reasons behind Hamas' success, this simplification assumes that Palestinians are simply so desperate that they vote for whoever feeds them, and are devoid of any critical political faculties.
Far more significant to Hamas' victory is what it represents politically, particularly when contrasted with the trajectory of the previous Fateh movement. Hamas represents a definitive departure from the Oslo model and the humiliating false discourse it propagated. Palestinians rejected that they had to be a "partner to peace"; that they were the ones who had to prove that they were not the terrorists; and that "Israeli security and self-defense" was a legitimate premise in the peace process, necessitating all of Israel's subsequent actions. It is precisely this vocabulary which greased the wheels of the machines which actively sought to extinguish the Palestinian national movement for the past 5 years, and colonized Palestinian lands in the West Bank and Gaza for the past 38.
Equally as important was the fact that in the struggle to attain these rights, Hamas articulated an alternative strategy to what it saw as the dead end of Oslo. Hamas preserved and implemented at times, the Palestinian right to resist. This, in the eyes of its US, Israeli and EU detractors, was its gravest sin. Although this resistance may have taken controversial forms, the reality of the matter is that Hamas was never unique in its employment of these methods amongst Palestinian factions, and often proved itself to be far more disciplined in its use of them. Furthermore, in the course of the Intifada, it was not Hamas which began the hostilities (Israel gets credit for that), nor was it the first Palestinian faction to initiate the Intifada's militarization (Fateh's responsibility.)
Only after politically positioning itself upon a firm political base, and articulating a program which protected and sometimes implemented a resistance centered campaign, can Hamas' social works be understood in context. In fact, it is precisely through the consolidation of these first two criteria that Hamas' social welfare networks become transformed from mere charity networks, into instruments for political mobilization. Hamas' victory also exemplified that it is first and foremost the responsibility of the political party to serve its people and not the other way around.
Defeat for US Imperialism and Zionism
Although cynics will no doubt argue that the Hamas victory falls in line with US and Israeli policies to legitimize its future actions, the fact of the matter is that both would have no doubt preferred a Fateh victory. US and Israeli strategies during Oslo were premised around the PA being Israel's security subcontractor. After the Intifada broke out, the US and Israel shifted tack, opting in favor of 'unilateralism' to get their way (as implemented in construction of the massive wall and checkpoint system, and the disengagement from Gaza). As for the Palestinian Authority, it was to be retained only in so far it was to be an object of continued torment -"until the Palestinians turn into Finns", according to Sharon's right hand man Dov Weisglas. This was supposed to free Israel's hand to be able to unilaterally determine Israel's borders, and anything else Israel and the US saw fit.
Although no doubt both Israel and the US have plenty of resources at their expense to exploit the current scenario to their advantage, the Hamas victory is an affront to the politics of how the US and Israel have been running the show for the previous 12 years. Hamas has the potential and desire to reorganize and regroup the Palestinian national movement on a surer footing, stemming the corrosive effects of Fateh's leadership under Oslo and Israel's deliberately destructive tactics against it. Hamas' victory also flies in the face of the Bush doctrine's efforts to 'bring democracy to the Middle East', as though this was to be equated with bringing to power moderate, pro-American regimes. Indeed the contrary has taken place, and it is this model which now shall be held up for movements across the region, eager to push for democracy in their respective countries. No doubt social movements in Egypt, Jordan and a host of other notoriously repressive US sponsored regimes will take note of this 'Arab experiment in democracy'.
A Victory and a Warning
Despite the fact that these elections took place under a brutal occupation and that Israel made no serious concessions to facilitate them; despite the fact that Israel currently holds 9,000 prisoners many of whom are pivotal national leaders in its jails; despite the fact that just months ago, Israel attempted to arrest the entire Hamas list and campaign organizers; despite the millions of dollars pumped directly and indirectly into Fateh's campaign by the US and the EU in a last ditch effort to keep the theater of absurd "peace process" alive - the Palestinian people voted resoundingly for a different future. Hamas should be given credit for politically and organizationally articulating and catalyzing that desire for change. At the same time, it must be noted that Hamas' victory is equally as much a failure for the Palestinian Left, and other secular forces to articulate and organize an attractive alternative. No doubt, the internal debates, and maneuvering on that front are only just beginning.
The Palestinian center of gravity has shifted to Hamas, and all others groupings within the Palestinian arena will be at pains to rearticulate and reorganize themselves if they are to one day seriously challenge them. For the time being however, Hamas will be given time to prove itself in action. At the same time the ballooning of its supporters will also bring with it expectations and political diversity, which the movement itself will also find difficult to navigate.
All this however cannot be decontextualized from what Israel and US will do to ensure that Hamas, like Fateh, cannot bring anything substantial back to its constituency in the form of tangible achievements for Palestinian rights. Indeed, both have already underscored that they will not deal with Hamas "until it recognizes Israel", "accepts the Road Map" and disarms. Furthermore, the US and EU are openly considering cutting relations and funding to the PA, while the major Israeli political parties (Labor, Kadima and Likud) all advocate 'unilateralism' if Hamas is in power (and incidentally, if they are not). These policies alone could spell the end for the PA as we have known it, while unmasking what was always the conditional commitment of these parties to "a peace process". Yet more worrying is the discourse which emerged within hours of the election results from former Israeli Army Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon. Ya'alon argued that what we are witnessing is the creation of "Hamastan, Hizbullahstan and al-Qaedastan" in Gaza, and that Iran is at Israel's doorstep. This discourse, and all similar discourse, truly only has one implication behind it - the desire to justify in advance massacres on a scale never seen in the previous 5 years. Hamas is certainly wary of this possibility, and for that reason will ensure it provides no excuses to bring that reality about. Nonetheless, Israel will be the one who orchestrates this and its timing, though likely not before the March elections for Prime Minister.
In these times of reconfiguring mentalities, Palestine solidarity activists must be consistent in challenging the rote racism and dehumanization of Arabs and Muslims which facilitate these bloody scenarios. Likewise they must argue politically for what is truly at the heart of this election, and that the right to self-determination and political representation is an internal Palestinian matter that does not contravene the over-arching framework within which the conflict must be understood: the fight of the Palestinian people to resist the colonization of their land for the establishment of an exclusivist Jewish state that acts as the watchdog of US imperialism in the region. Though a Hamas victory on some levels may make this task harder, it also crucially brings up so many issues which Palestinian activists must convincingly argue if we are ever to win real gains: challenging the historiography of the Oslo peace process and exposing the US role in supporting the exclusionary Zionist state and its oppressive policies against the Palestinian national movement. The fact that this election result was achieved more or less democratically (although with clear limitations which should not be overlooked) should potentially make our task easier - but only if we know what's at stake. Indeed if Israel is to be prevented from eventually doing what it wants to in Gaza, (as it did to Beirut, the heart of Palestinian organizing from 1970 -1982), then Palestine activists will have much to do in the coming months.
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4434.shtml
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Hamas was initially backed by the Israeli govt. In the mid 80's the Palestinian Commmunist party was the most powerful political force in the occupied terrorities. Fatah was a distant second . Islamic forces were very small . When Hamas was formed, the Israelis saw a opportunity to hurt the Palestinian Left . They backed Hamas by facilitating busloads of Hamas goons enroute to attack both P.C.P. and Al Fatah rallies . Israeli troops and border cops were ordered to wave Hamas Militants thru their checkpoints and allowed them to keep their clubs and ax handles . Chanting ''Communists and Christians out of the P.L.O. ''they charged Left and secular nationalist demos .inflicting many causalities . While Hamas was winning the street battles Israeli troops and cops didn't intervene . When the P.C.P. and Fatah reorganized their security squads and started beating back the Hamas Thugs , then the Israelis stepped in. All this is well documented in the Israeli Left press . So be very skeptical about all the U.S. and Israeli wringing of hands about the Hamas victory. This is similar to the blowback from U.S support for the Islamic Reactionaries fighting against the Soviets , albeit on a much smaller scale .
DemocracyNow recently did a really good segment on this, in which investigative reporter Robert Dreyfuss laid out how Mossad, the CIA, MI6, etc., conspired to deliberately whip up the Islamist movement as a means to short-circuit Arab modernity and thus thwart pan-Arab nationalism. That guy Israel assassinated a couple years ago, Hamas founder "Sheikh" Ahmed Yassin? The Israelis sprung him out of an Egyptian prison back in '67 precisely so he would lead Palestinians down the religious nutcase path. ee-yupp
This is excellent stuff, very damaging to the zio-bullshits:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/26/151252
This is excellent stuff, very damaging to the zio-bullshits:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/26/151252
Like the old saying goes, "don't wish too hard for what you want or you just might get it. Now Israel has to deal with a Hamas that is much more than the thugs with clubs it unleashed on Fatah. Faced with the "thugs" who are taking power in Palestine and the settler-thugs who are stoning the IDF in the West Bank, Israel may find itself in a situation that will make it have to choose the Hamas "thugs" over their own homegrown thugs in the West Bank settlements. It's either that choice or perpetual war.
Hey Shmuel, I just made flaming toast out of Harriet in the other thread. Check it out
http://indybay.org/news/2006/01/1799119_comment.php#1799903
http://indybay.org/news/2006/01/1799119_comment.php#1799903
'wig-wog: "...While cowering behind this site's political censorship to keep himself from being refuted."
I don't cower behind shit, asshole. I just don't have your abhorrent sanctimonious PR operative crypto-bigot agenda, so I don't get deleted as much. The mods can't stand you any more than I can.
Shtark raving Yidiot: "There has to be alot of fear for indybay to censor all pro-Israel mesages."
No, Yidio-bot, not fear, just enlightened contempt for the likes of YOU. If you and the other creeps hadn't upped your own psy-ops jig by trying to scream down EVERY criticism of Israel so obsessively, you'd be free to post here like anybody else. If you want to find a culprit, look at yourself. You were begging for retaliation, and you got it.
BTW, when have you ever posted newswire items? Gehrig never has, to my knowledge. This is just one more thing that ups your psy-ops jig. You're not here to initiate critical discussion, you're here to monitor the site and gatekeep when other people get it started. This is SOOO obvious about the bunch of you. You really think people are too stupid to notice, don't you?
I don't cower behind shit, asshole. I just don't have your abhorrent sanctimonious PR operative crypto-bigot agenda, so I don't get deleted as much. The mods can't stand you any more than I can.
Shtark raving Yidiot: "There has to be alot of fear for indybay to censor all pro-Israel mesages."
No, Yidio-bot, not fear, just enlightened contempt for the likes of YOU. If you and the other creeps hadn't upped your own psy-ops jig by trying to scream down EVERY criticism of Israel so obsessively, you'd be free to post here like anybody else. If you want to find a culprit, look at yourself. You were begging for retaliation, and you got it.
BTW, when have you ever posted newswire items? Gehrig never has, to my knowledge. This is just one more thing that ups your psy-ops jig. You're not here to initiate critical discussion, you're here to monitor the site and gatekeep when other people get it started. This is SOOO obvious about the bunch of you. You really think people are too stupid to notice, don't you?
Welcome back. We've missed you.
My name isn't remotely 'CT'.
Sorry- thought you were a long time poster "Critical thinker" that vanished off the face of the earth.
I assume that CT is probably auto blocked like other pro-Israel posters.
By the way, if you're curious what the _whole_ dialog is like:
http://www.indybay.org/news/hidden.php?id=1800774
http://www.indybay.org/news/hidden.php?id=1800774
Sounds like a cool dude
are any of these people 'CFB'?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who is the real racist?
by Let's see!
Who are the real racists? The Zionist Jews, largely white Askanazi Jews, who support a Jewish state that only allows for equal rights for Jews(where even olive-skinned Sephardic Jews are treated as less than equal to the White Askanazi Jews), and who insist that non-Jewish Americans pay for this racist, apartheid state?
Or are the real racists the anti-Zionists, many who are Jewish, (http://www.nkusa.org), who are against any discrimination before the law against people just because of their religion, race, or gender?
You decide. I think it's a no-brainer, personally.
gehrig and his type are their own worst enemies.
The Neturei Karta Jews are far more progressive than any Zionist Jew or Zionist Christian for that matter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
yeah sure
by they always try to cover up
Zionists always try to cover up that fact that they don't really consider non-Jews, even Christian Americans, as "one of them". They don't want to offend the hands that feed them (non-Jewish Americans by and large).
I got a hate call the other day from a man who identified himself as a white Jew from South Africa (with a heavy New York accent) and he thinks that So. Africa should go back to being Apartheid! He also said my "olive-skinned friend (name withheld) is not welcome in Israel-- he's a swarthy, no-good Jew, that Sephardic Jew" and called me names and told me to "drop dead".
The worst racists on earth tody are the Zionist Askenazi Jews, mainly from Russia and also the ones that are now in the US. They need to be held accountable for their racism just like any other racist should be. They are the WORST because they are getting away with blatant racism and crimes agaisnt humanity every day. The Zionists must be delegitimized and marginalized in public discourse and in the eyes of the law just like the non-Jewish White Supremacists, such as in the KKK and neo-Nazis. There must be no double standards with regards to Zionism and Zionist Israel.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
typical gehrig
by gehrig is a racist!
He simply won't address the fact that he does not endorse equal rights for all in Israel-Palestine, regardless of religion, race or gender, including for all the Palestinian refugees who have the right to return to their ancestral homeland of Israel-Palestine.
gehrig won't touch that one! Because he's a racist who doesn't support the transformation of Israel into a true, secular democracy with completely equal rights for all, regardless of religion, race, ethnicity or sex.
Therefore, gehrig is a racist and thinks that segregation and apartheid in the Holy Land is fine. He does not believe that non-Jews should have equal rights in Israel. He is a Jewish Supremacist, no doubt, a White Jewish Supremacist, and most likely an Askanazi White Jewish Supremacist who only cares about Jews and their well-being, and places them above all others, especially non-Jewish Palestinians. He doesn't like anyone who criticizes Israel and accuses them of being anti-Semitic, which goes to show he doesn't think that anyone really cares about the Palestinians' rights, and therefore, he is a RACIST in the first degree. A Zionist racist. Zionism is a blatant form of racism, in fact it is violent racism. Zionism is a form of racist TERRORISM and must be outlawed from influencing US policies both domestic and foreign. Just like Nazis or White Supremacism has been marginalized and delegitimized.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And he still refuses to answer
by Gehrig is a racist!
You see how he always dodges the issues? He believes that Israel should continue to be the racist, anti-democratic, apartheid country that it is. He thinks it should be a Jewish state with equal rights only for Jews. He doesn't support the Palestinian refugees right to return even though it is their inalienable right to return to their ancestral homeland of Palestine-Israel, according to UN Resolutions, International Law and world opinion. Gehrig is a Jewish Supremacist racist Zionist Jew, most likely, of the Askanazi variety.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
gehrig is a waste of time
by forget it
Trying to talk to Gehrig is like trying to talk to the concrete Israeli Apartheid Wall.
Waste of time.
But we will tear down the Apartheid Wall.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
True Anti-Zionist
by Genuine Anti-Zionist
There is NO difference between Zionist Islamophobes like Elliott Abrams, Daniel Pipes, etc. and David Duke --- both groups of such people are RACISTS!
The difference between Zionist Jewish White Supremacist Racists and White Euro-American Supremacists is this:
Zionist racists not only get away with spreading their hate-mongering racism everywhere they please in public and in the mainstream media, but they are actually REWARDED with top-notch powerful and influential positions, lucrative contracts, plenty of air-time and in all the Zionist controlled and Zionist enabling media. And American taxpayers are forced to pay for their racist, anti-democratic, apartheid country of Israel, which is billions of U.S. tax $$$$$$ a year! On top of that, these Zionists try to convince everyone they are not racists!
David Duke, on the otherhand, is obviously a racist, especially where it concerns Blacks, however, much of what he says about Zionism and Zionist Jews rings true and not only that but he provides the evidence so you can do you own research. And David Duke on the otherhand is in jail now thanks to his Zionist political enemies on trumped up charges of "tax evasion" of some sort-- he's a political prisoner, make no doubt about it.
MY BEEF IS that we MUST NOT ALLOW ZIONISTS TO GET AWAY WITH THEIR BLATANT RACISM!!!!!! They should be held accountable just as any other racist would be, especially with regards to US domestic and foreign policy. Racist Zionists are running the show with regards to the U.S. Middle East foreign policy!!! Why don't you read the Jewish Forward or other such Jewish papers and see how they even brag about!
Of course, Israeli connection and Jewish interests with regards to causing the war on Iraq to happen is not polite or politically correct to report in US mainstream media. See how the Zionists have an insidious effect on American policy and culture? Duh!
And here's another difference between Zionists and most true Anti-Zionists: Anti-Zionists want equal rights for all regardless of religion, ethnicity, race or sex here in America and in any country that our tax dollars goes to. Israel is a racist, anti-democratic, apartheid country and does not deserve one cent of our money until it is transformed into a true democracy.
Zionists do not want a true democracy in Israel for sure, and they don't really want one here in the US either. They want "whatever is good for the Jews'-- that's the ONLY qualification they care about.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why are so many Jews silent?
by ?
I f so many Jews are so disturbed about Zionist Israel and being labelled as Zionists, why don't more of them speak out against Zionism?
Why do we have to rely on the Neturei Karta, the UltraOthodox Jews to do all the speaking for anti-Zionist Jews? They are far more progressive the the so-called liberal Left Jews in general!
Most liberal Left Jews are phonies it seems.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scum
by mike
I didn't realize that anyone who criticizes Israel is a Jew-hating Nazi. Thanks. I'll keep that in mind the next time I hear one of those anti-Semitic scum laying into Ariel Sharon.
Oh, look, on TV, some IDF guys beating a Palestinian boy into pulp. Gosh, that makes me feel slightly uneasy about current Israeli policies in the West Bank--oh, my God, I'm anti-Semitic, I'm worse than Hitler!!--someone lock me up!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Closed minds, knee-jerk reactions
by see what I mean?
People get so freaked out about racist David Duke, but not about the Zionist racists that are running our U.S. foreign policy! What is wrong with this picture?
The Zionists have so brainwashed Americans, including White Christian Americans, in fact, especially White Christian Americans, that OMIGOD-- any mention of David Duke is horrifying! That's just how the Zionists want you to think. And yet, have you read anything by him about Zionism? No! Of course you haven't! You have been so propagandized to think that he would have absolutely nothing of value to say without even reading anything of his--- you wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole!
YET, you WILL read the Zionist propaganda of William Safire, of Thomas Friedman, of Elliott Abrams, of Daniel Pipes all easily found in our U.S. mainstream corporate media... won't you? All of these Zionists to one degree or another are racists and don't believe that Palestinians should have equal rights in their own ancestral homeland. If the Israeli government has to pressure the non-Jews into leaving one way or another by making their lives miserable in order to maintain a JEWISH STATE, so be it--- that's how these Zionists think. The kind of pressure we are talking about includes home demolitions, curfews, roadblocks, random shooting into crowds and apartment building, "targeted" extrajudicial assasinations that kill and maim dozens of civilians as "collateral damage", and so on. Our tax dollars is supporting this violent, blatant racism.
Abrams in his book "How can Jews survive in America?' (what a ludicrous title) says Jews should not marry non-Jews, and that Jews should go to Christian churches to create alliances for Israel, a country which is committing ethnic cleansing against Palestinian Muslims and Christians. Christians are subject to a year in jail if they hand out any literature to Jews in Israel. Christians, in general, have been duped, bought out, and brainwashed by the Zionists, in the media, in the churches, in our government.
Why is it that David Duke is reviled for being a racist, but Abrams, Perle, Wolfowitiz, Safire, Pipes, and so on, are not, but in fact, they are rewarded with influential positions and accolades in America? Why do Americans accept double standards when it comes to dealing with the blantant racism of Zionists?
NO racists should be tolerated and especially in American governmental posts and in the media!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and the Participation of the NMO in the War on the Side of Germany
(1941)
It is often stated in the speeches and utterances of the leading statesmen of National Socialist Germany that a prerequisite of the New Order in Europe requires the radical solution of the Jewish question through evacuation (“Jew-free Europe”).
The evacuation of the Jewish masses from Europe is a precondition for solving the Jewish question; but this can only be made possible and complete through the settlement of these masses in the home of the Jewish people, Palestine, and through the establishment of a Jewish state in its historic boundaries.
The solving in this manner of the Jewish problem, thus bringing with it once and for all the liberation of the Jewish people, is the objective of the political activity and the years-long struggle of the Israeli freedom movement, the National Military Organization (Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Palestine.
The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that:
1) Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO.
2) Cooperation between the new Germany and a renewed folkish-national Hebraium would be possible and,
3) The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East.
Proceeding from these considerations, the NMO in Palestine, under the condition the above-mentioned national aspirations of the Israeli freedom movement are recognized on the side of the German Reich, offers to actively take part in the war on Germany’s side.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Peruvian convert] Ben-Haim says that after he finishes the Hebrew course, he may join the army, "because I wasn't in the army in Peru and that is something I lack, and also because I want to defend the country and if there is no choice, I will kill Arabs. But I am sure that Jews kill Arabs only for self-defence and justice, but Arabs do it because they like to kill."
He bases this belief on his scientific view of Judaism:
"The Arab has the instinct of murder and killing
like all gentiles,
and only Jews do not have that instinct
- THAT IS A GENETIC FACT."
- http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,770235,00.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ashkenazi Zionist Jews are White Supremacists
by hello
Ashkenazi Zionist Jews are Jewish White Supremacists, mostly from Russia and Eastern Europe. They think they are superior to everyone, including the olive-skinned Jews known as Sephardic.
For those who want to know more about Rachel Corrie, check out http://www.distanceeddesign.com/rachel/
Zionists have serious mental illnesses, including they are in constant denial about the truth about themselves and their ugly racist apartheid state of Israel and they constantly project their own hatred onto others; they constantly lie and call others names; they never can keep on topic and are the masters of obfuscation; they never can forgive others and always seek revenge; they believe in the "WE win-you lose", "WE'RE OK-you're not OK " mindset; they are completely materialistic and devoid of any spirituality. They think they are superior to all non-Jews. They are to be pitied but not tolerated. They are to be completely marginalized and shunned.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
chosen VS the Stranger in our midst
by Count Folke Bernadotte
....and your telling me that 'aint anti-goyitism, gehrig?
would you like me to demonstrate *more* anti-goyitism from the chosen -warriors of Jehovah Elohim?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please note
by gehrig spies for the ADL
He keeps endless notes on all the anti-Zionists but who the f*** cares?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Way to go, gehrig
by A concerned Zionist
Dear gehrig,
A truly brilliant response, fellow Zionist stormtrooper! 'Windy Wendy' or whatever name you so maturely label her is nothing more than an antizionist humanist! She spouts outrageous and unpopular lies to make her point, unlike we Zionists who spout politically correct lies, denying the war crimes committed in Jenin and accusing everyone of our critics of antisemitism.
People like Wendy should learn that there is only one proper way to distort the truth- the Zionist way.
Everything else is wrong and must be destroyed by our American bulldozers and the CNN propaganda network.
Heil Sharon!
- A concerned Zionist
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
precision definition time...perhaps...
by categorically CFB
I was born and raised in Australia. Most of my ancestors appear to have been British. I don't categorize myself as "British".
Would it make sense to do so?
Most of my recent ancestors apear to have been practicing Catholics. I don't practice or preach Catholicism (quite the opposite), nor do I categorize myself as 'Catholic'.
Would it makes sense to do so?
Who is Jewish?
Can an atheist be Jewish?
If a Jew converts to Islam, does s/he remain Jewish?
If a Peruvian converts to Judaism, then reverts to Christianity, does s/he remain within the "peoplehood" of Jews? - or does s/he become a "stranger in [y]our midst"?
Does the "matriachal-lineage" hereditary aspect of Judaism apply to progeny of female converts?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zionism false marketing campaign is rejected by anti Zionists.
by Not its basic messages
Zionism plants false promises in the masses by selling them on the idea that it alone can restore security to the diaspora.
Like any advertizing campaign, wether it be for cosmetics reasons or otherwise, it misleads the targetted market with unrealistic expectations.
A facial cream may claim it will erase sun spots and minimize wrinkles if you buy it, but once you do, it does no such thing.
Same with Zionism, it claims to protect the people while failing to do just that.
When the clientle consequently rejects Zionism, for being a false prophet it does NOT reject the notion of security for Jews rather it embraces the notion despite Zionism's inability to deliver on their word.
This is likened to a clientle who rejects the facial cream that does not deliver on its promises but does not reject the promise itself, which is a younger looking face.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, I found CFB, all right
BTW, those are the initials of Count Folke Bernadotte
Now, why would the zios forget that, I wonder...
And no wonder they call him an "anti-Semite": he kicked them senseless **EVERY TIME**
Here's his all-time best
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/09/1642605_comment.php#1649117
"anti-semite" must be a code phrase for "no patience for bullshit"
The guy picks up Hebrew in fighting back against these psychos, and they call this "anti-Semitism"??? Ha! That's what I call 'raw genius'!
PS -- Hey gehrig, Wendy Campbell has your bullshit down to a tee also, hee-hee-hee!!
are any of these people 'CFB'?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who is the real racist?
by Let's see!
Who are the real racists? The Zionist Jews, largely white Askanazi Jews, who support a Jewish state that only allows for equal rights for Jews(where even olive-skinned Sephardic Jews are treated as less than equal to the White Askanazi Jews), and who insist that non-Jewish Americans pay for this racist, apartheid state?
Or are the real racists the anti-Zionists, many who are Jewish, (http://www.nkusa.org), who are against any discrimination before the law against people just because of their religion, race, or gender?
You decide. I think it's a no-brainer, personally.
gehrig and his type are their own worst enemies.
The Neturei Karta Jews are far more progressive than any Zionist Jew or Zionist Christian for that matter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
yeah sure
by they always try to cover up
Zionists always try to cover up that fact that they don't really consider non-Jews, even Christian Americans, as "one of them". They don't want to offend the hands that feed them (non-Jewish Americans by and large).
I got a hate call the other day from a man who identified himself as a white Jew from South Africa (with a heavy New York accent) and he thinks that So. Africa should go back to being Apartheid! He also said my "olive-skinned friend (name withheld) is not welcome in Israel-- he's a swarthy, no-good Jew, that Sephardic Jew" and called me names and told me to "drop dead".
The worst racists on earth tody are the Zionist Askenazi Jews, mainly from Russia and also the ones that are now in the US. They need to be held accountable for their racism just like any other racist should be. They are the WORST because they are getting away with blatant racism and crimes agaisnt humanity every day. The Zionists must be delegitimized and marginalized in public discourse and in the eyes of the law just like the non-Jewish White Supremacists, such as in the KKK and neo-Nazis. There must be no double standards with regards to Zionism and Zionist Israel.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
typical gehrig
by gehrig is a racist!
He simply won't address the fact that he does not endorse equal rights for all in Israel-Palestine, regardless of religion, race or gender, including for all the Palestinian refugees who have the right to return to their ancestral homeland of Israel-Palestine.
gehrig won't touch that one! Because he's a racist who doesn't support the transformation of Israel into a true, secular democracy with completely equal rights for all, regardless of religion, race, ethnicity or sex.
Therefore, gehrig is a racist and thinks that segregation and apartheid in the Holy Land is fine. He does not believe that non-Jews should have equal rights in Israel. He is a Jewish Supremacist, no doubt, a White Jewish Supremacist, and most likely an Askanazi White Jewish Supremacist who only cares about Jews and their well-being, and places them above all others, especially non-Jewish Palestinians. He doesn't like anyone who criticizes Israel and accuses them of being anti-Semitic, which goes to show he doesn't think that anyone really cares about the Palestinians' rights, and therefore, he is a RACIST in the first degree. A Zionist racist. Zionism is a blatant form of racism, in fact it is violent racism. Zionism is a form of racist TERRORISM and must be outlawed from influencing US policies both domestic and foreign. Just like Nazis or White Supremacism has been marginalized and delegitimized.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And he still refuses to answer
by Gehrig is a racist!
You see how he always dodges the issues? He believes that Israel should continue to be the racist, anti-democratic, apartheid country that it is. He thinks it should be a Jewish state with equal rights only for Jews. He doesn't support the Palestinian refugees right to return even though it is their inalienable right to return to their ancestral homeland of Palestine-Israel, according to UN Resolutions, International Law and world opinion. Gehrig is a Jewish Supremacist racist Zionist Jew, most likely, of the Askanazi variety.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
gehrig is a waste of time
by forget it
Trying to talk to Gehrig is like trying to talk to the concrete Israeli Apartheid Wall.
Waste of time.
But we will tear down the Apartheid Wall.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
True Anti-Zionist
by Genuine Anti-Zionist
There is NO difference between Zionist Islamophobes like Elliott Abrams, Daniel Pipes, etc. and David Duke --- both groups of such people are RACISTS!
The difference between Zionist Jewish White Supremacist Racists and White Euro-American Supremacists is this:
Zionist racists not only get away with spreading their hate-mongering racism everywhere they please in public and in the mainstream media, but they are actually REWARDED with top-notch powerful and influential positions, lucrative contracts, plenty of air-time and in all the Zionist controlled and Zionist enabling media. And American taxpayers are forced to pay for their racist, anti-democratic, apartheid country of Israel, which is billions of U.S. tax $$$$$$ a year! On top of that, these Zionists try to convince everyone they are not racists!
David Duke, on the otherhand, is obviously a racist, especially where it concerns Blacks, however, much of what he says about Zionism and Zionist Jews rings true and not only that but he provides the evidence so you can do you own research. And David Duke on the otherhand is in jail now thanks to his Zionist political enemies on trumped up charges of "tax evasion" of some sort-- he's a political prisoner, make no doubt about it.
MY BEEF IS that we MUST NOT ALLOW ZIONISTS TO GET AWAY WITH THEIR BLATANT RACISM!!!!!! They should be held accountable just as any other racist would be, especially with regards to US domestic and foreign policy. Racist Zionists are running the show with regards to the U.S. Middle East foreign policy!!! Why don't you read the Jewish Forward or other such Jewish papers and see how they even brag about!
Of course, Israeli connection and Jewish interests with regards to causing the war on Iraq to happen is not polite or politically correct to report in US mainstream media. See how the Zionists have an insidious effect on American policy and culture? Duh!
And here's another difference between Zionists and most true Anti-Zionists: Anti-Zionists want equal rights for all regardless of religion, ethnicity, race or sex here in America and in any country that our tax dollars goes to. Israel is a racist, anti-democratic, apartheid country and does not deserve one cent of our money until it is transformed into a true democracy.
Zionists do not want a true democracy in Israel for sure, and they don't really want one here in the US either. They want "whatever is good for the Jews'-- that's the ONLY qualification they care about.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why are so many Jews silent?
by ?
I f so many Jews are so disturbed about Zionist Israel and being labelled as Zionists, why don't more of them speak out against Zionism?
Why do we have to rely on the Neturei Karta, the UltraOthodox Jews to do all the speaking for anti-Zionist Jews? They are far more progressive the the so-called liberal Left Jews in general!
Most liberal Left Jews are phonies it seems.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scum
by mike
I didn't realize that anyone who criticizes Israel is a Jew-hating Nazi. Thanks. I'll keep that in mind the next time I hear one of those anti-Semitic scum laying into Ariel Sharon.
Oh, look, on TV, some IDF guys beating a Palestinian boy into pulp. Gosh, that makes me feel slightly uneasy about current Israeli policies in the West Bank--oh, my God, I'm anti-Semitic, I'm worse than Hitler!!--someone lock me up!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Closed minds, knee-jerk reactions
by see what I mean?
People get so freaked out about racist David Duke, but not about the Zionist racists that are running our U.S. foreign policy! What is wrong with this picture?
The Zionists have so brainwashed Americans, including White Christian Americans, in fact, especially White Christian Americans, that OMIGOD-- any mention of David Duke is horrifying! That's just how the Zionists want you to think. And yet, have you read anything by him about Zionism? No! Of course you haven't! You have been so propagandized to think that he would have absolutely nothing of value to say without even reading anything of his--- you wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole!
YET, you WILL read the Zionist propaganda of William Safire, of Thomas Friedman, of Elliott Abrams, of Daniel Pipes all easily found in our U.S. mainstream corporate media... won't you? All of these Zionists to one degree or another are racists and don't believe that Palestinians should have equal rights in their own ancestral homeland. If the Israeli government has to pressure the non-Jews into leaving one way or another by making their lives miserable in order to maintain a JEWISH STATE, so be it--- that's how these Zionists think. The kind of pressure we are talking about includes home demolitions, curfews, roadblocks, random shooting into crowds and apartment building, "targeted" extrajudicial assasinations that kill and maim dozens of civilians as "collateral damage", and so on. Our tax dollars is supporting this violent, blatant racism.
Abrams in his book "How can Jews survive in America?' (what a ludicrous title) says Jews should not marry non-Jews, and that Jews should go to Christian churches to create alliances for Israel, a country which is committing ethnic cleansing against Palestinian Muslims and Christians. Christians are subject to a year in jail if they hand out any literature to Jews in Israel. Christians, in general, have been duped, bought out, and brainwashed by the Zionists, in the media, in the churches, in our government.
Why is it that David Duke is reviled for being a racist, but Abrams, Perle, Wolfowitiz, Safire, Pipes, and so on, are not, but in fact, they are rewarded with influential positions and accolades in America? Why do Americans accept double standards when it comes to dealing with the blantant racism of Zionists?
NO racists should be tolerated and especially in American governmental posts and in the media!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and the Participation of the NMO in the War on the Side of Germany
(1941)
It is often stated in the speeches and utterances of the leading statesmen of National Socialist Germany that a prerequisite of the New Order in Europe requires the radical solution of the Jewish question through evacuation (“Jew-free Europe”).
The evacuation of the Jewish masses from Europe is a precondition for solving the Jewish question; but this can only be made possible and complete through the settlement of these masses in the home of the Jewish people, Palestine, and through the establishment of a Jewish state in its historic boundaries.
The solving in this manner of the Jewish problem, thus bringing with it once and for all the liberation of the Jewish people, is the objective of the political activity and the years-long struggle of the Israeli freedom movement, the National Military Organization (Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Palestine.
The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that:
1) Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO.
2) Cooperation between the new Germany and a renewed folkish-national Hebraium would be possible and,
3) The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East.
Proceeding from these considerations, the NMO in Palestine, under the condition the above-mentioned national aspirations of the Israeli freedom movement are recognized on the side of the German Reich, offers to actively take part in the war on Germany’s side.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Peruvian convert] Ben-Haim says that after he finishes the Hebrew course, he may join the army, "because I wasn't in the army in Peru and that is something I lack, and also because I want to defend the country and if there is no choice, I will kill Arabs. But I am sure that Jews kill Arabs only for self-defence and justice, but Arabs do it because they like to kill."
He bases this belief on his scientific view of Judaism:
"The Arab has the instinct of murder and killing
like all gentiles,
and only Jews do not have that instinct
- THAT IS A GENETIC FACT."
- http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,770235,00.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ashkenazi Zionist Jews are White Supremacists
by hello
Ashkenazi Zionist Jews are Jewish White Supremacists, mostly from Russia and Eastern Europe. They think they are superior to everyone, including the olive-skinned Jews known as Sephardic.
For those who want to know more about Rachel Corrie, check out http://www.distanceeddesign.com/rachel/
Zionists have serious mental illnesses, including they are in constant denial about the truth about themselves and their ugly racist apartheid state of Israel and they constantly project their own hatred onto others; they constantly lie and call others names; they never can keep on topic and are the masters of obfuscation; they never can forgive others and always seek revenge; they believe in the "WE win-you lose", "WE'RE OK-you're not OK " mindset; they are completely materialistic and devoid of any spirituality. They think they are superior to all non-Jews. They are to be pitied but not tolerated. They are to be completely marginalized and shunned.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
chosen VS the Stranger in our midst
by Count Folke Bernadotte
....and your telling me that 'aint anti-goyitism, gehrig?
would you like me to demonstrate *more* anti-goyitism from the chosen -warriors of Jehovah Elohim?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please note
by gehrig spies for the ADL
He keeps endless notes on all the anti-Zionists but who the f*** cares?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Way to go, gehrig
by A concerned Zionist
Dear gehrig,
A truly brilliant response, fellow Zionist stormtrooper! 'Windy Wendy' or whatever name you so maturely label her is nothing more than an antizionist humanist! She spouts outrageous and unpopular lies to make her point, unlike we Zionists who spout politically correct lies, denying the war crimes committed in Jenin and accusing everyone of our critics of antisemitism.
People like Wendy should learn that there is only one proper way to distort the truth- the Zionist way.
Everything else is wrong and must be destroyed by our American bulldozers and the CNN propaganda network.
Heil Sharon!
- A concerned Zionist
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
precision definition time...perhaps...
by categorically CFB
I was born and raised in Australia. Most of my ancestors appear to have been British. I don't categorize myself as "British".
Would it make sense to do so?
Most of my recent ancestors apear to have been practicing Catholics. I don't practice or preach Catholicism (quite the opposite), nor do I categorize myself as 'Catholic'.
Would it makes sense to do so?
Who is Jewish?
Can an atheist be Jewish?
If a Jew converts to Islam, does s/he remain Jewish?
If a Peruvian converts to Judaism, then reverts to Christianity, does s/he remain within the "peoplehood" of Jews? - or does s/he become a "stranger in [y]our midst"?
Does the "matriachal-lineage" hereditary aspect of Judaism apply to progeny of female converts?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zionism false marketing campaign is rejected by anti Zionists.
by Not its basic messages
Zionism plants false promises in the masses by selling them on the idea that it alone can restore security to the diaspora.
Like any advertizing campaign, wether it be for cosmetics reasons or otherwise, it misleads the targetted market with unrealistic expectations.
A facial cream may claim it will erase sun spots and minimize wrinkles if you buy it, but once you do, it does no such thing.
Same with Zionism, it claims to protect the people while failing to do just that.
When the clientle consequently rejects Zionism, for being a false prophet it does NOT reject the notion of security for Jews rather it embraces the notion despite Zionism's inability to deliver on their word.
This is likened to a clientle who rejects the facial cream that does not deliver on its promises but does not reject the promise itself, which is a younger looking face.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, I found CFB, all right
BTW, those are the initials of Count Folke Bernadotte
Now, why would the zios forget that, I wonder...
And no wonder they call him an "anti-Semite": he kicked them senseless **EVERY TIME**
Here's his all-time best
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/09/1642605_comment.php#1649117
"anti-semite" must be a code phrase for "no patience for bullshit"
The guy picks up Hebrew in fighting back against these psychos, and they call this "anti-Semitism"??? Ha! That's what I call 'raw genius'!
PS -- Hey gehrig, Wendy Campbell has your bullshit down to a tee also, hee-hee-hee!!
Another survivor.... told the crowd she was proud to be at the opening to honor the memory of the rescuer who saved her from death, Counte Folke Bernadotte. The Swedish Red Cross head negotiated with SS commander Heinrich Himmler for the release of thousands in concentration camps.
And then in gratitude the Stern Gang ambushed Bernadotte's limousine and ripped him up with a submachine gun. Yeah that's those heroic wunnaful zionists again
"all the terrorists escaped to the religious community of Sha’arei Pina where they hid with haredi (ultra-religious) LEHI sympathizers for a few days before fleeing to Tel Aviv in the back of a furniture truck."
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/folke.html
"all the terrorists escaped to the religious community of Sha’arei Pina where they hid with haredi (ultra-religious) LEHI sympathizers for a few days before fleeing to Tel Aviv in the back of a furniture truck."
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/folke.html
The Cook-Medley hostility scale: ability to predict survival.
Barefoot JC , Dodge KA
Department of Psychiatry, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC 27710.
Previous studies have identified the MMPI-based Cook and Medley hostility scale (Ho) as a predictor of health outcomes. To achieve a better understanding of the construct measured by this scale, Ho items were classified on an a priori basis. Six subsets were identified: Cynicism, Hostile Attributions, Hostile Affect, Aggressive Responding, Social Avoidance, and Other. Study 1 examined the correlations of these subsets with scales of the NEO Personality Inventory in two samples of undergraduates. As in previous studies, those with high scores had poorer survival . Cynicism, Hostile Affect, and Aggressive Responding subsets were related to survival, whereas the other subsets were not. .These associations are large enough to have possible public health significance. We conclude that hostility may contribute to health problems through its influences on several coronary risk factors across the adult life span.
...out of joining the ranks of the soulless, gutless cockroaches scuttling at my feet, simpering with eagerness to serve their mortal class enemies.
BTW, keep sopping up all that psycho-bullshit and you're sure to never actually comprehend anything. Talk about a political agenda dressed up as "science"...
BTW, keep sopping up all that psycho-bullshit and you're sure to never actually comprehend anything. Talk about a political agenda dressed up as "science"...
Ah, you zio-slimeballs and your cheap little stunts
Meanwhile, returning to the subject...
And then in gratitude the Stern Gang ambushed Bernadotte's limousine and ripped him up with a submachine gun. Yeah that's those heroic wunnaful zionists again
"all the terrorists escaped to the religious community of Sha’arei Pina where they hid with haredi (ultra-religious) LEHI sympathizers for a few days before fleeing to Tel Aviv in the back of a furniture truck."
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/folke.html
Meanwhile, returning to the subject...
And then in gratitude the Stern Gang ambushed Bernadotte's limousine and ripped him up with a submachine gun. Yeah that's those heroic wunnaful zionists again
"all the terrorists escaped to the religious community of Sha’arei Pina where they hid with haredi (ultra-religious) LEHI sympathizers for a few days before fleeing to Tel Aviv in the back of a furniture truck."
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/folke.html
...that LEHI wouldn't give a shit about Bernadotte's rescue of thousands of Jews from the Nazis. The truly psycho zionist hardcore has always focussed on the furtherance of Israel even to the exclusion of universal Jewish concerns. Thus LEHI's founder, Avraham Stern, made overtures to collaborate with the Nazis in return for Israel gaining sovereignty as a Nazi client state.
This is how psychotic zionism is at its core
This is how psychotic zionism is at its core
...when he can't deal with THE FACTS
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1569802351/102-3506563-3432958?v=glance&n=283155
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1569802351/102-3506563-3432958?v=glance&n=283155
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/146957.php
"THE FORGOTTEN RESISTANCE: THE MOSQUE OF PARIS" – See/Get this documentary!
The Father Bill O’Donnell Social Justice Committee is honored to host Dr. Annette Herskovits who will present this half-hour documentary by Derri Berkani and talk about her own harrowing experience as a child, barely escaping the Nazis because she was protected by _MUSLIMS_ in Occupied France during WWII. ARABS/MUSLIMS also protected European Jews in North Africa, most notably in Morocco.
Jews and Muslims have often lived and acted in harmony [especially before the Zionist state of Israel was imposed in Palestine]. During WWII, MUSLIMS in France protected Jews from deportation to Nazi death camps. The Paris MOSQUE became a refuge for anyone hiding from the German occupiers, including Jews, many of them children. The mosque’s rector even provided false birth certificates “proving” that Jews were MUSLIMS. Solidarity between Jews and Muslims FLOURISHED beyond the mosque.
The film’s director found a leaflet distributed by Algerian workers after Paris police conducted the first massive round-up of Jews. It said: ‘The Jews are our brothers, and their children are like our own children.”
"A Forgotten Resistance: The Mosque of Paris", a documentary directed by Derri Berkani; in French with English subtitles. Approx. 30 minutes.
For more information contact:
Father Bill O'Donnell Social Justice Committee
510-482-1062
"THE FORGOTTEN RESISTANCE: THE MOSQUE OF PARIS" – See/Get this documentary!
The Father Bill O’Donnell Social Justice Committee is honored to host Dr. Annette Herskovits who will present this half-hour documentary by Derri Berkani and talk about her own harrowing experience as a child, barely escaping the Nazis because she was protected by _MUSLIMS_ in Occupied France during WWII. ARABS/MUSLIMS also protected European Jews in North Africa, most notably in Morocco.
Jews and Muslims have often lived and acted in harmony [especially before the Zionist state of Israel was imposed in Palestine]. During WWII, MUSLIMS in France protected Jews from deportation to Nazi death camps. The Paris MOSQUE became a refuge for anyone hiding from the German occupiers, including Jews, many of them children. The mosque’s rector even provided false birth certificates “proving” that Jews were MUSLIMS. Solidarity between Jews and Muslims FLOURISHED beyond the mosque.
The film’s director found a leaflet distributed by Algerian workers after Paris police conducted the first massive round-up of Jews. It said: ‘The Jews are our brothers, and their children are like our own children.”
"A Forgotten Resistance: The Mosque of Paris", a documentary directed by Derri Berkani; in French with English subtitles. Approx. 30 minutes.
For more information contact:
Father Bill O'Donnell Social Justice Committee
510-482-1062
"To anyone with even the slightest historical perspective, the Holocaust is recent history."
Bullshit. Pro-Israelists -- and their imperial masters -- have a HUGE stake in keeping all of WWII but especially the holocaust at the center of the public's experience of "present history." WWII is the last imperial offensive by the Western Empires that was remotely defensible. Meanwhile, Americans have a much weaker knowledge of crimes equal to the holocaust perpetrated BY THIS COUNTRY ***SINCE WWII.***
crimes equal to the holocaust perpetrated BY THIS COUNTRY ***SINCE WWII***
The global holocaust of political leftists, for example. See William Blum's seminal book Killing Hope, and don't skip the introduction. This includes stuff zionists have participated in directly, e.g. the incredibly vile terror wars in Central America during the reign of Ronald 'Satan' Reagan. I'm talking military campaigns so heinous they're almost unbearable to think about. The Nazis worked pretty hard to sanitize what they were doing, the Central American dictators didn't AT ALL. Israelis helped train the killers. Their victims were quite often Native Americans. So this is the premier caterwauling "genocide" guilt-trippers perpetuating the **REAL** #1 atrocity of the past 1,000 years
Within my social circle, my consciousness of history is unparalleled. This has revealed to me the REAL meanings of present history, not the canned goo-goo-baby grade school crock of Orwellian bullshit that gehrig wants to keep front and center for his pathetically obvious bigoted selfish reasons.
The TRUE political present, now, this week, this minute, is of paramount importance. As you move back through the past it diminishes steadily, inexorably, in relevance. By the time you arrive at May of 1945, you're talking about a world as different relative to the present as it was to the world of the 1700s. Yes, things have changed that much. History is moving incredibly fast now and the time-span of relevance has contracted accordingly. One of the things that's changed
most is the fortunes and status of Jews everywhere. Gehrig doesn't want you to understand this. He wants you to stay locked in the world of 1945 like a baby in a thermos bottle. Why do you suppose that is?
"TW lacks...simple human empathy."
Gehrig's "empathy" goes out almost exclusively to Jews alone. Mine is much more inclusive.
Bullshit. Pro-Israelists -- and their imperial masters -- have a HUGE stake in keeping all of WWII but especially the holocaust at the center of the public's experience of "present history." WWII is the last imperial offensive by the Western Empires that was remotely defensible. Meanwhile, Americans have a much weaker knowledge of crimes equal to the holocaust perpetrated BY THIS COUNTRY ***SINCE WWII.***
crimes equal to the holocaust perpetrated BY THIS COUNTRY ***SINCE WWII***
The global holocaust of political leftists, for example. See William Blum's seminal book Killing Hope, and don't skip the introduction. This includes stuff zionists have participated in directly, e.g. the incredibly vile terror wars in Central America during the reign of Ronald 'Satan' Reagan. I'm talking military campaigns so heinous they're almost unbearable to think about. The Nazis worked pretty hard to sanitize what they were doing, the Central American dictators didn't AT ALL. Israelis helped train the killers. Their victims were quite often Native Americans. So this is the premier caterwauling "genocide" guilt-trippers perpetuating the **REAL** #1 atrocity of the past 1,000 years
Within my social circle, my consciousness of history is unparalleled. This has revealed to me the REAL meanings of present history, not the canned goo-goo-baby grade school crock of Orwellian bullshit that gehrig wants to keep front and center for his pathetically obvious bigoted selfish reasons.
The TRUE political present, now, this week, this minute, is of paramount importance. As you move back through the past it diminishes steadily, inexorably, in relevance. By the time you arrive at May of 1945, you're talking about a world as different relative to the present as it was to the world of the 1700s. Yes, things have changed that much. History is moving incredibly fast now and the time-span of relevance has contracted accordingly. One of the things that's changed
most is the fortunes and status of Jews everywhere. Gehrig doesn't want you to understand this. He wants you to stay locked in the world of 1945 like a baby in a thermos bottle. Why do you suppose that is?
"TW lacks...simple human empathy."
Gehrig's "empathy" goes out almost exclusively to Jews alone. Mine is much more inclusive.
What happens when you try to reason with Toothless? This:
TW: "Bullshit."
No, you poor little thing, still struggling mightily all these years later to throw off the chains of adolescence yet never quite managing it, it is not bullshit. It is a historical fact. In a history that traces millenia, fifty-one years is a drop in the bucket. If you were capable of any actual empathy, you'd see that in an instant. But either you were born without the empathy gene or else it was beaten out of you as a child and replaced with unfocussed rage.
If you had any actual experience with a Jewish community, you'd know that damn near every last one can tell you the names of the relatives that were killed. If they're lucky, it was only a few. But it's quite clear that you believe the Jews deserve no empathy, that empathy is for suckers and you're far too advanced to fall for such a JEW-DI MIND TRICK, yup yore too advanced yup too advanced, nosirree, no empathy for Jews, not from ol' Toothless, what kinda mark gives empathy to Jews? Geez, the chutzpah of these damned Jews!
You are convinced that antisemitism is effectively not a force in the world. That's like saying, "hurricanes are overestimated -- there's not _one_ hurricane in the world today! How can hurricane victims possibly be asking for empathy, now that there are no longer hurricanes?"
Toothless: " Within my social circle, my consciousness of history is unparalleled. "
You must run with an unspeakably zombified bunch, if you're their star genius. Are you sure they aren't hanging around you just because they want to eat your brain at some unguarded moment.
@%<
TW: "Bullshit."
No, you poor little thing, still struggling mightily all these years later to throw off the chains of adolescence yet never quite managing it, it is not bullshit. It is a historical fact. In a history that traces millenia, fifty-one years is a drop in the bucket. If you were capable of any actual empathy, you'd see that in an instant. But either you were born without the empathy gene or else it was beaten out of you as a child and replaced with unfocussed rage.
If you had any actual experience with a Jewish community, you'd know that damn near every last one can tell you the names of the relatives that were killed. If they're lucky, it was only a few. But it's quite clear that you believe the Jews deserve no empathy, that empathy is for suckers and you're far too advanced to fall for such a JEW-DI MIND TRICK, yup yore too advanced yup too advanced, nosirree, no empathy for Jews, not from ol' Toothless, what kinda mark gives empathy to Jews? Geez, the chutzpah of these damned Jews!
You are convinced that antisemitism is effectively not a force in the world. That's like saying, "hurricanes are overestimated -- there's not _one_ hurricane in the world today! How can hurricane victims possibly be asking for empathy, now that there are no longer hurricanes?"
Toothless: " Within my social circle, my consciousness of history is unparalleled. "
You must run with an unspeakably zombified bunch, if you're their star genius. Are you sure they aren't hanging around you just because they want to eat your brain at some unguarded moment.
@%<
Gehrig's "empathy" goes out almost exclusively to Jews alone. Mine is much more inclusive.
This condition of yours that I just described, what's it called?
Don't blow a gasket or anything
Don't blow a gasket or anything
Empathy for _JEWS_? TW would rather be caught dead.
@%<
@%<
Wig-wog punked out again. It's like he knows he'll be roadkill otherwise
This condition of yours that I just described, what's it called?
Without your friends around to run interference for you, you're just a featherweight punk, aren't you Wiggo-Biggo
Oh, Puh-leeze, you bad merciless brute, don't thump your chest any harder or you'll split my eardrums.
* rolling eyes again *
Now would be an excellent time to get over yourself.
@%<
* rolling eyes again *
Now would be an excellent time to get over yourself.
@%<
Those vehementaly anti-Israel folks who don't speak or read either Hebrew or Arabic, don't practice Judaism or Islam and remain obsessed with Israel are a strange bunch. The hidden comments on this thread are an amazing insight into these troubled minds.
>folks who don't speak or read either Hebrew or Arabic, don't practice Judaism or Islam and remain obsessed with Israel are a strange bunch.
Every American taxpayer is personally involved because we finance Israel's atrocities.
Every American taxpayer is personally involved because we finance Israel's atrocities.
>Every American taxpayer is personally involved because we finance Israel's atrocities.
Some of out tax dollars finance the genocidal, terroristic and racist PA entity that you support, despite your laughable pretense for anti-racism. That deplorable entity commits most of the atrocities we finance.
I'll take your position more seriously when I see you denounce the atrocities committed by the PA.
Some of out tax dollars finance the genocidal, terroristic and racist PA entity that you support, despite your laughable pretense for anti-racism. That deplorable entity commits most of the atrocities we finance.
I'll take your position more seriously when I see you denounce the atrocities committed by the PA.
This is a straw man. Just because someone is opposed to Israel does not , per se, mean they support the PA.
Israel and the PA are not the only possibilities. That's a false delemma.
Israel and the PA are not the only possibilities. That's a false delemma.
>Just because someone is opposed to Israel does not , per se, mean they support the PA.
The thing is, YOU do. All your word games won't cover this fact up.
Dismissed.
The thing is, YOU do. All your word games won't cover this fact up.
Dismissed.
narcissie: "Just because someone is opposed to Israel does not, per se, mean they support the PA."
Ah. So just because some Zionist fringe groups bombed British military offices doesn't mean per se they supported the Reich.
Thanks for clearing that up, nessie.
@%<
Ah. So just because some Zionist fringe groups bombed British military offices doesn't mean per se they supported the Reich.
Thanks for clearing that up, nessie.
@%<
"We will fight the White Paper like here was no war and we will fight the war like there was no White Paper."
No fair, Shtarker, you're using actual historical information to show that nessie's stupid generalizations are incorrect.
@%<
@%<
Notice that they fail to cite a single URL to back up this absurd claim.
>Thanks for clearing that up, nessie
If he really thought it had been cleared up, he would not have said this:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/06/131505_comment.php#1802312
>Thanks for clearing that up, nessie
If he really thought it had been cleared up, he would not have said this:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/06/131505_comment.php#1802312
>Notice that they fail to cite a single URL to back up this absurd claim
Note how he ignores the fact that URLs have been cited ad nauseum and he's playing dumb as if he isn't aware of who and what he supports.
Note how he ignores the fact that URLs have been cited ad nauseum and he's playing dumb as if he isn't aware of who and what he supports.
Where have they been cited? Where *exactly* did I say
I support the PA"? Point to one instance.
I support the PA"? Point to one instance.
>Where have they been cited?
Go fetch.
>Where *exactly* did I say I support the PA"?
This is bunk logic. You didn't even need to say it in an exact "I support the PA" format.
>Point to one instance.
Go fetch.
Go fetch.
>Where *exactly* did I say I support the PA"?
This is bunk logic. You didn't even need to say it in an exact "I support the PA" format.
>Point to one instance.
Go fetch.
In other words, I didn't say it. They're putting words into my mouth yet again. Even the by line betrays their duplicity.
It's nothing new. See:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/1698659.php
(snip)
debate coach
(snip)
It's nothing new. See:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/1698659.php
(snip)
debate coach
(snip)
>In other words, I didn't say it. They're putting words into my mouth yet again.
You're lying and you know it. I was just expounding that you may have said it in a direct manner, a more subtle manner, or both.
>Even the by line betrays their duplicity.
Junk logic and a lie at that.
You're lying and you know it. I was just expounding that you may have said it in a direct manner, a more subtle manner, or both.
>Even the by line betrays their duplicity.
Junk logic and a lie at that.
In other words, I didn't say it. They're lying again.
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