The World Can't Wait! San Francisco says: 'Out with the Bush Regime!'

There have been arrests and police are using snatch squads.
Hyde and Market.

This regime is a boil on the face of humanity.

lots of people came. lots of people chanted. then lots of people went home. I really saw the face of this "new" movement they were talking about....

No offense to anyone, but this march was just another ANSWER-type march (just on a smaller scale with less people).

Come on why does the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP) need to change their name every year and then glom on to what ever the issue of the day is? Remember when they used to call themselves Refuse & Resist and talk about setting Mumia free all the time? Mumia is still in jail & they moved on and changed their name to Not In Our Name. Then people figured out that Not In Our Name was bullshit and so they reinvented themselves again. Be wary of people who hide who they really are and what they believe. The world can wait for Chairman Bob and so can I.

Incidentally, who the hell was this individual with the gas incendiary bottle. I hope it was a video-game addicted teen who will emerge from the fog, or someone with emerging mental illness.
That was so dumb. Now, not being able to differentiate between radical groups, the police with Newsom's blessing will just bring out the pepper spray preemptively the next time there is a contingent at a march or other event. There was no intelligence in that at all. Even in the most justified situation, say if there were a napalm factory with goods being sent to kill people - you're supposed to wait until no one is around so you don't hurt anyone, rather than when tons of people are crowded around, and you're also not supposed to do this in front of a mass of law enforcement. This isn't Greece.

What was the bomb thrown at? It just looked like it hit the sidewalk. Oh, and P.S. If you call yourselves the "Revolutionary Communist Party," be revolutionary: don't kiss police officers' asses to keep a march going.

Mumia was one of the initiator of the "world cant wait", and he actually transmitted a radio speech in which he supports the world cant wait.
http://www.prisonradio.org/

one of the responsibilities of a vanguard party is to find what are the issues of the day and what need to be struggle over. Refuse and resist did a great job around Mumia and abortion, (they were part of starting BACORR lately) and not in our name, mobilized millions of people in to the street even before the war started.

The r.c.p. is upholding Bob avikian in the same way that the Maoist movement is upholding Marx, Lenin, Mao, Gonzalo, and Parchanda. all those people represent a leap in the understanding of the science of revolution. (if you have a problem with that why don’t you relate to what is wrong with his righting?)

were do you see the r.c.p. ever hiding their ideology?

The w.c.w is a movement that is trying to bring the struggle into the street. Not coming every other saturday to demonstrate, but quitting school and work to send a massage. We are trying to break away from this whole "money for jobs not for war" mentality.

I really recommend people to read about what happened today all over the country.
http://www.worldcantwait.net/

I was at the demonstration. I don't care if it's RCP or CP or SWP of WWP or any of the alphabet of groups organizing this thing. It had a much better spirit and combativity than some of the larger "peace marches" I've gone on.

The thrower of the molotov cocktail probably thought that the "RCP was kissing the cops asses," but I wonder what are the strategy and tactics that these people would have us employ. Armed struggle under the present conditions? The truth is that legal political work, which is crucial in mobilizing people, means that there must be compromises with the forces of the state.

The molotov cocktail was either aimed at the Chronicle building front doors or at one or several of the cops guarding it. I saw a cop's helmet and shirt in flames. They were quickly extinguished, however. Joey Johnson (on the sound truck) condemned the action--not because he (or the RCP) wishes to defend the police, but because he did not want to create a situation in which the police could use this as a pretext to repress everyone there. Even the Bolsheviks, who certainly did lead a revolution, opposed agents provocateurs and "individual terror."

I was one of nine people (6 men; 3 women) who got arrested at Hyde and Market. Some of us were calling ourselves the slow people, because the fast people all got away. Being arrested was not really a big deal. They hold you for a little while and then let you go. We were cited and have to appear in Court, but I think if lots of people were to get arrested they wouldn't even bother citing us because it would just be too much trouble.
Please let's keep this peaceful - no more molitov cocktails. We don't want to create a war zone. War is an obscene bummer wherever it occurs.
See you all next time - bring your friends.

You idiot, the RCP didn't abandon NION, they were kicked out by elements who felt that the RCP was too domineering in NION. Though I do agree with the bob the bacon comments

I think the reason there are less RCP people in nion is because they felt that their "more" revolutionary energy was needed elsewhere- promoting bob's dvd and book, the rc4, and then wcw (they might have realized that the hippy energy in nion wasn't going to drive out the bush regime). there are still rcp "forces" or supporters or people who now claim to have no connection to the party involved in nion.

I have been actively protesting this war since the beginning.

I do not understand where some people feel that by blocking traffic they are going to put an end to the war. All they are doing is pissing off motorists.
The person who topped off the event with their molotov cocktail was a fucking idiot.

Don't some of you see that protest events DO NOT MAKE NEWS UNLESS SOMETHING VIOLENT OR ILLEGAL ERUPTS? WHY? SO EVERYONE CAN SEE THE BAD SIDE OF PROTESTERS?

VIOLENCE BEGETS VIOLENCE
You will NOT settle anything by sitting your ass in the street to piss off people. You will not stop this war by protesting in a violent manner. Protesting for peace with violence? What the hell? Explain that.
You can get your meaning across without harming other people. Getting a riot going is only going to get innocent bystanders put in harms way. A couple was beaten with batons who had nothing to do with the demonstration.
This is why I refuse to participate in the world cannot wait's demonstrations. They advocate violent acts and this only causes you all to look like criminals..... not people who are truly concerned about the war.
If you are against violent acts like war, why participate in violent acts?
Cindy Sheehan just lost my support today.... after I saw her at this demonstration. I'm outraged that all she has done is lament about peace yet she takes part in something that lead to innocent people getting beaten.
Cindy, if you wanted the support of people, you better get away from this group.... they *love* hate and violence.

...this event which i thought overalll was rather silly. Good thing about it were lots fo high scholl students. Bad thing about it, was Joey Johnson leading the same chant on 90% of the march. If this is the creativity of the RCP god help those who follow them.

But the most important question is what is the status of those arrested. We need a good report including if there's anything we need to do to help them.

Yes, the one man with the molotov cocktail managed to get the whole headline for all the news stations - and he didn't bother to get any consensus from the group about this.
The more I think about it, this was such a ridiculous, unwise choice, that bet if we got his name or photo, none of the real activists who carry out various other campaigns would even recognize this guy (and that definitely includes Anarchist Action, who probably had no or few people there). He is either a complete newbie outsider, like the stream of general public insophisticates who go into Bound Together Books to ask for the 'Anarchist Cookbook', which they don't carry and actively disendorse, or he is an RCP member in the midst of cultlike indoctrination. While some communists are okay, I've seen some RCP members whose ranting skills really make them seem like they're in the same mental space as the wingnut evangelical christians preaching on the street corner with a sign warning of hell. Also, have you noticed how few photos from indybay people have been uploaded on the site so far - it's because very few of the people interested in the other events typically listed here went to WCW.
He actually hit a police officer, who has nothing to do with Iraq. They're going to take that incident and use it to ban every unpermitted radical gathering such as the bookfair and AA meetings.

It's because of people like the guy who threw the MC and the cop getting hurt it's going to make it far more difficult to get permits to protest. The fucking pigs are gonna be breathing down our necks even more so now thanks to WCW.
Damn... we have to deal with permits each month just to go on our corner. I don't need people like this screwing it up for me. I'm not into sitting in jail while my kids need a mother to take care of them. I can protest the hell out of this war without resorting to being a criminal.

No matter what i or any of you think of the World Can't Wait or the RCP, they should not blamed for future possible police over-reaction for a person with a molotov. I am that none of the rgainzers of the WCW or the RCP support throwing molotovs at police or at the Chronicle building especially in the middle fo their permitted demonstration. They, just becasue they called a demo, can't be held repsonsible fro eveyone who attends their dmeo. The only one who should be responsible fro the Molotov was its thrower.

>No matter what i or any of you think of the World Can't Wait or the RCP, they should not blamed for future possible police over-reaction for a person with a molotov. I am that none of the rgainzers of the WCW or the RCP support throwing molotovs at police or at the Chronicle building especially in the middle fo their permitted demonstration. They, just becasue they called a demo, can't be held repsonsible fro eveyone who attends their dmeo. The only one who should be responsible fro the Molotov was its thrower.<

Exactly. If the cops crack down on future permitted demos because the actions of one person, it's not the fault of the organizers. Challenge the transfer of blame, don't settle for it.

From the WCW website’s “From the Organizers”: “But, to speak bluntly, tactics that cut against bringing out the thousands on November 2 and speaking to the millions go in the wrong direction and should not be done. The Call for the November 2 demonstrations is very clear: it is not calling for violence and it is not calling to remove the Bush regime from office by any means other than mass political action.”

Some the other demonstrators were starting fights... peaceful my ass! Sitting in the street blocking traffic and pissing off people just trying to get to work, go home, pick up kids.... you tell me that is going to stop the war? whatever!
You can talk it up all you want to but this set the precedence for future protests.... you wait and see. You're gonna get shit next time you people try to organize again.
There's no call for WCW protestors to be involved in fighting but a few were. Are you going to try and tell me they weren't? Cause I saw it....
This type of thing seriously pisses me off..... I want to protest peacefully.... so do many others. Ms Sheehan has been pushing for shit like this to happen....

"Ms Sheehan has been pushing for shit like this to happen"

We will continue to do what it takes to stop the injustices of this war.

>Sitting in the street blocking traffic and pissing off people just trying to get to work, go home, pick up kids.... you tell me that is going to stop the war? whatever!

Oh yeah, walking out of work is a miserable failure, as far as tactics go. I mean, just look at Eastern Europe in the 1990s -- not so much as a single government fell.

Heh.

What happened to the Ghandi- like mentality you claimed to exude not so long ago? Advocating civil disobedience is one thing, to advocate MC's getting thrown and blocking traffic just to piss people off is another. MLK practiced civil disobedience as did many others in the civil rights movement, but you forget exactly what form this took place. It was illegal to sit in a white only cafe and order a coffee. So a black person would sit down and do exactly that. THAT is what civil disobedience is.
How far do you really think you are going to get blocking traffic and promoting the use the violent behavior?
You know, I used to have ALOT of respect for you, and now it's just totally fading. You tout one thing one day then another day it's absolutely different. One day you lament about being peaceful, then the other it's about using whatever force necessary. And at the cost of what Cindy? If you value human lives as you say you do, then you'd even care about the pig that got hurt at the demonstration right? You'd care that an MC could have potentially caused innocent bystanders to get seriously hurt. You'd care that innocent people were beaten with batons yesterday. Right?
I'm starting to think you are absolutely full of shit.
Seek Help.

Whoa, hold up. I'm trying to have a discussion with you here. You don't know me, please don't make assumptions.

You said:

>How far do you really think you are going to get blocking traffic and promoting the use the violent behavior?

I suppose my response to that would be: why do you put blocking traffic and violent behavior on the same plane? You mentioned Martin Luther King: do you honestly think that the march from Selma to Montgomery didn't block traffic?

Further, look around you. Look at who is in power. Look at *WHY* they're in power. If being in the streets is not your cup of tea, what do you propose as an alternative, in terms of opposing the regime?

Lastly, please don't conflate everybody who was in the streets yesterday into the same ball of wax -- and if we're going to talk, let's talk. There's no need for name calling -- which, by the way, is a form of mild violence. Just thought you'd like to know.

um, what makes you think that Cindy Sheehan was the one leading the people sitting in the streets. She was just an invited speaker, and does not lead World Can't Wait. I don't understand why this isn't obvious.
Have you ever listened to her on the radio? She is an extremely clever, motivating speaker, and part of her success is that she doesn't have the typical ANSWER ranting style. She makes her points using wit.

she's very warm, engaging, humorous.

it makes her a mortal threat to the neocon-zombie regime, and that's why they must try to vilify and dehumanize her by any means. same pattern of bully behavior that has scoot in so much trouble, hahahahahahahah!!

"She makes her points using wit."

I may not agree with this instance of the molotov being thrown, but hopefully sometime soon they will be the tools of the people. You all need to open your eyes. There will never be peace or anything as long as capitalism is still the driving force of our civilization. working just so you can live is comeplete nonsense. When the Revolution comes which side will you be on. trying to save your property or out there destroying it. we are the working people and we are the ones who know how to rebuild it and we will. once this is all over and we are all free.

PEACE(A)//(E)

>You all need to open your eyes.

Y'all need to think about what this person is saying. If you want change without any, well, change -- you're probably barking up the wrong tree. Look at times of civil unrest, and you'll know what I'm talking about.

But if you want, we can keep groping the elephant's tail, trying to figure out if it's anarchist, communist, non-violent, violent, whatever -- as if one single spectacle is the point of all this.

I'm not saying that the mc was a good idea -- at the very least, it lacks grace in timing. But if you think that most of the people of the world is going to sit around while the US and its allies drive the planet into chaos (the bad kind of chaos, that is) you are definitely mistaken.

brick or stucco or something?

something nonflammable?

duh. token tantrumism at its worst. stupid and dangerous-- it could only hurt people.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1514550/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1514703/posts

That's all they can do is cry on their website, and maybe vote, if they can read the ballot (LOL!)

All I have to say is WTF, this is the most exciting thing that has actually happened at a demo in SF in a long time. The assinine peacenik liberals and RCP agree, it was a bad idea. This might hurt the good protestors chances of possible endless protesting and other activities that reinforce free speech or fallicies of a democratic state. Is protesting all that folks can do? Does it matter at all?
I will say this for the WCW folks they have nice promotional materials, anarchists could learn alot, there is nothing inherintly wrong with trying to organize a populist agenda? Cool graphic and good colors and not too much text, wow I think that is how to reach people. seriously...

Immediately following the discussion of the Moltov thrower the WCW and RCP credibility is being dragged thru the dirt from the back of a pick-up truck. Funny how one individual can have so much power. Does anyone know who the Moltov thrower was? Maybe a police infiltrator provacateur playing target practice with his peers? If not local police, doesn't anyone know that the FBI/Nazis/etc. don't really mind sacrificing a local beat cop if they can cause the entire demonstration to appear violent? Pretext for martial law anyone?

Would like to see more solidarity events like this one in the future. Someone throwing a Moltov isn't worth stopping the protests. No matter how well organized, in a large convergence of people it is impossible to control the actions of every individual. As far as violence is concerned, many other protests in other countries where people are really fighting oppression include violence on a regular basis. When the police kill someone at a protest we don't see the same level of outrage in the media as when police are the victims. This isn't for fun, it is for survival. The police are far more lethal there and protesters need to practice self defense..

Violence is an everyday occurrence in occupied Iraq (and many other third world nations). People in North America are often insulated from violence and this sort of incident is similar to third world nations (despite being minor incident), maybe something that North americans find disturbing. Now if one hundred people threw Moltovs at the police during a protest, then that would be something to have a cow about..

So for now, don't have a cow..

luna moth

http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/11/1780074_comment.php

Please , redirect your hostility, the problem is not the measley mc that didn't ultimately hurt anyone . The police apparently brutalized some people, but its this regime and the imperialist nature of this Government structure that really should be the focus.
True, the MC was a bad idea (stupid).
but lets not loose focus on the big picture , the big bad and stupid ideas ok.Like the war in Iraq and every other policy of this administration and prior administrations that seeks to dominate the globe and militarize space!
Protesters are people who have no obligation to obey orders or directives from anyone, and letting the police herd you in
the (agreed?) route just looks ridiculous cross the police lines, swarm spread out expand the demonstration to the point that we confuse the shit out of the cops and they dont know how to police it.
stop playing by their rules people

>Please , redirect your hostility, the problem is not the measley mc that didn't ultimately hurt anyone . The police apparently brutalized some people, but its this regime and the imperialist nature of this Government structure that really should be the focus.

Can I get a fuck yeah? Thank you.

The mc is not the point. I'm not about to diss on someone who, presuming that they weren't a cop or a right-winger looking to discredit the left, assumedly thought they were fighting back in the only way that made sense. Respect. OK?

Besides, if some folks want to get upset about fiery things being targeted at buildings, the undisputed masters of that are the Bush regime. Why, they've even been known to blow up buildings with people inside of them -- like civilians, journalists, and so on. Imagine that. You'd think they were imperialists. Or something.

While some of you argue and waste your energy on the molotov cocktail and the RCP, you fail to realize that you have bought into the commercial media's agenda. That is what they printed, and now here you are bitching about it just like they want; and you most likely agree with the idea that the Bush Regime IS poison. I'm probably as impatient as some of you, but you have to understand that change is a process, and takes time. This was not like an ANSWER march because it happened in a lot of places nation-wide. You are misdirecting your anger just like the minutemen on the CA-MEXICO borders, pointing their weapons at the immigrants when they need to be pointed at the immigrant's future American employers. Get mad at the people that weren't there, not the people that were; don't get mad at the people that actually made the sacrifice. A lot of you are probably smart individuals who need to be joining forces to achieve one common goal, which is to force BUSH out of office. No one said it was going to be easy and happen overnight.

This is for all who think it's ok for MC's and blocking traffic as a means to end this war....

Be prepared next time because the police brutality will be far worse.

MLK held a march. People were walking. Alot different then sitting in the street refusing to move so people can get by. And MLK had alot more integrity than WCW will have in their pinky toe.

As for Cindy Sheehan not being part of WCW, her name is in bold letters as a supporter and member of this group on their main page.

I was up in Seattle when they had the WTO protests. They gained nothing. But damn, people thought they were cool. I'll never forget the guy with nike shoes on smashing up the nike sign. *eye roll*

Carry on...

Wait until they start calling what that guy did a "terrorist act".
Pretty soon protesting won't be allowed with stunts like that.
I think some resistance is needed to get a point across. I have no problem blocking traffic to make a statement. If it takes my body to stop traffic and make a person stop what they are doing to think about this war then that is what it will take.
I want it to be clear that I do not associate myself with violence when it comes to protesting.

"As for Cindy Sheehan not being part of WCW, her name is in bold letters as a supporter and member of this group on their main page."

She spoke at the WCW rally but if you look at all of the coverage of the march you should have at least picked up that the Molotov wasnt thrown on the WCW march.... You can try to blame the WCW organizers (and people lke Ciny who showed up in support) for the actions of a breakaway protest by a group that on the whole doesnt like the RCP but its pretty transparent that you hate Cindy for other reasons.

um, did you just say they didn't accomplish anything in Seattle?

That's really inaccurate. Seattle is where everything went right, and it is easy to trace changes in the WTO and World bank (namely, G8 nations dropping the WTO as their central institution) to the power that critics and 3rd world participants got due to the protests. It isn't that difficult to make the connection because the world media coverage in the meetings after Seattle kept referring to Seattle as the reason why a trade round collapsed or african/latin american countries were able to have a better position than before.
We just have to keep going. The companies which would like to function at corporate warlords independent of a nation (such as oil companies in Nigeria/Ecuador etc.) have often shifted their energies to different plans and institutions.

"This is for all who think it's ok for MC's and blocking traffic as a means to end this war...."

Now, I would just like to know how we can stop the war? Do people really think we can hold rallies and marches and expect the powers at be to really listen to us? I really hope this is not the case. In order to stop the war, there will be violence. I totally support all of these marches. It is amazing to see so many people come out and oppose the war, but I always ask myself the same question: would any of these people be willing to fight, and I mean actually fight for what they believe in? I'm not even sure if I would be able to.

BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLICANS

Mine Eyes have seen the bungling of that stumbling moron Bush;

he has blathered all the drivel that the neo-cons can push;

he has lost sight of all reason 'cause his head is up his tush;

The Doofus marches on.

I have heard him butcher syntax like a kindergarten fool;

There is warranted suspicion that he never went to school;

Should we fault him for the policies - or is he just their tool?

The lies keep piling on.

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'.

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!

His wreckage will live on.

I have seen him cut the taxes of the billionaires' lone heir;

As he spends another zillion on an aircraft carrier;

Let the smokestacks keep polluting - do we really need clean air?

The surplus is now gone.

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!

Your safety net is gone!

Now he's got a mighty hankerin' to bomb a prostrate state;

Though the whole world knows its crazy - and the U.N. says to wait;

When he doesn't have the evidence, "We must prevaricate."

Diplomacy is done!

Oh, a trumped-up war is excellent; we have no moral bounds;

Should the reasons be disputed, we'll just make up other grounds;

Enraging several billions - to his brainlessness redounds;

The Doofus marches on!

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!

The Doofus marches on!