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Indybay Feature

Wake up, Bayview Hunters Point!

by Ebony Colbert via SF Bay View (reposted)
Are you aware that there are armed thugs, dressed in blue, harassing the residents of our neighborhood, murdering our children, kidnapping our fathers and sons and even sexually assaulting our women and girls?


They dress alike, drive the same cars, some even have huge German Shepherds riding with them. They shoot to kill, and you’d better duck if you wanna live.

Run and hide, lock your doors but don’t pick up your phones! Cause it’s not the Crips you’ve got to be worried about – it ain’t Big Block, BNT, Oakdale, Kirkwood or West Mob either – it’s the SFPD.

Yeah, I said it and I’ll say it again. The San Francisco Police Department is a gang. They are liars, they are thieves, they are rapists, drug dealers and assassins, and they are paid to harass and terrorize the residents of our community. Whew, I feel better now.

I was once one of those brainwashed, innocent little kids who knew to call 9-1-1 when something went wrong. But now I know for a fact that calling 9-1-1 would be like inviting the devil to dinner – he’ll thank you for the invitation but he’s bound to wanna take you to hell (or 850 Bryant) with him so he can show you his own brand of hospitality. So now I just say no.

There ain’t no amount of stop, drop and roll that will shake police fire off you. They get their hands wrapped around the Black community and they squeeze until it bursts into flames.

Have we forgotten the Rodney King riots? Los Angeles exploded when videotaped footage of the LAPD beating a Black man was televised. Somehow, though, when the SFPD shoots and kills half a dozen young Black men, we just shake our heads. It is rarely televised and rarely reported in the local newspapers. But it’s happening, people, and you’d better wake up.

I’m not going to tell you that the police are the only problem here. Some key players in this mission to destroy the Bayview Hunters Point community are the ill-informed residents therein – the hypocrite holy rollers who smile at the altar but won’t speak in the street, the Black business owners who won’t even hire their own people, the parents who are too high or too self-involved to raise their own children and the village that turns its back on its elders. These people are of great help to the SFPD in their fight to destroy our community. If you see your name on this list: Check yourself.

Growing up in Bayview Hunters Point, I have seen many crimes committed – some drug deals and even some public intoxication. But never have I witnessed crimes as blatantly committed as those committed by the SFPD – false imprisonment, assault and battery, illegal search and seizure, home invasion, perjury. Shall I go on?

My friends and family has had their personal experiences with the police, but a few stick out in my mind. Just two years ago, my fiancé was coming out of a Third Street corner store on his way home from work when he was approached by narcotics officers. After unlawfully searching him and finding that he wasn’t carrying any drugs or weapons, they decided to run his name through the system.

While driving him through the Produce Market, they questioned him about crimes that he wasn’t even aware of and told him that they would let him out if he could “give them somebody.” They even threatened to drive through Potrero Hill pointing at people, labeling him a snitch. Then they would let him out at the top of Connecticut Street.

“I didn’t have nobody to give them … I don’t know nothing about nothing, unless it has to do with me or my family. I guess they didn’t do their research, because I’m not a gang banger. If they would’ve let me out in Potrero Hill, I would’ve said ‘what’s up’ (to my family) and kept going,” he recalls.

Their computer was searched for a third time and brought up the info they wanted. That night he was arrested on a warrant stemming from non-payment of a littering ticket. His bond was $12.50.

In another incident, my little brother was harassed and tossed around by Marina District police after leaving a club on Broadway. Muni had stopped running in the area, and after calling a friend for a ride and not getting an answer, he was contemplating a route home.

His only crime was asking, “Why should I move?” when officers “Dumb and Dumber” asked him to leave a bus stop bench. They told him, “Since you don’t want to move, we’ll play the ‘monkey game,’” and they proceeded to bruise his face and ego in plain view of other club-goers.

My brother has no criminal record, not even so much as a jaywalking ticket. That night, he learned never to question a cop.

The most notorious incident of all is MLK Day in 2002 when SFPD terrorized four teenagers at gunpoint. When the parents and shocked neighbors tried to intervene, the police threatened to shoot them.

They only made one arrest that night – 14-year-old Jerome King-Brown who spoke up to defend his little cousin. They beat him to near unconsciousness and then took him to the Bayview Police Station, trying to charge him with something like resisting arrest. When onlookers asked why the police were harassing these children, they were told, “As long as you people are here, we will act like this.”

Last month, on Sept. 9, one of the young men assaulted by cops that night, Tyrelle Taylor, now 18, was shot in the back and nearly killed by police while running from the scene of what the SFPD claim was an “assault on a police officer.”

According to a front page story in the Chronicle, Tyrelle had pointed a firearm at them. Apparently, he is not only a “gang member” but also a wizard, because in running from five or more officers, he was able to magically make this gun disappear.

Tyrelle was held on charges of attempted murder and assault on a police officer, brandishing a firearm and possession of an illegal firearm – which, believe it or not, was recovered days after the incident. Isn’t that convenient?

He was later charged with possession of marijuana and cocaine – both discovered while searching his mother’s home, not in his possession upon arrest.

Now, if you know the SFPD, you know they have this uncanny ability to find stuff at the most convenient moment. Unfortunately, this ability is always out of order when it comes to arresting suspects in the murders of the young Black men in our community.

Tyrelle mentioned to me that when he was booked, after spending just a couple days in the hospital, he was referred to as a “cop killer” by his escorting officer. The desk sergeant was asked to treat him as such. The police report has yet to be made public, and all witness accounts of the incident say that Tyrelle fled from the police unarmed!

Something is not right here. If there was any time to speak up, the time is now. Let’s ask the police some questions:

If there were five officers on hand, why is it that not one of them chased the driver?

If Tyrelle in fact did have a firearm and dropped it while fleeing, why would five officers run past it and leave it for anyone to find?

The SFPD always calls for witnesses to come forward to help solve crimes. Well, witnesses have spoken and they’re saying that you guys are full of shit, your case is bogus and Tyrelle is innocent. So what now?

Even if it is the case that Tyrelle is mixed up in this turf war madness – and it hasn’t been proven that he is – it still gives the SFPD no license to shoot to kill an unarmed man, to shoot him in the back.

Show me these “assaulted” officers who so feared being killed by this child that they decided to enlist the help of half the damn force to gun him down in broad daylight. Maybe if they’re so afraid for their lives, they should choose another profession. I hear there are some pig openings at Hormel. They’d be glad to have ‘em.

Maybe it’s just a coincidence that Tyrelle was one of the kids assaulted by SFPD in 2002. But I don’t think so. I believe that he was targeted by the cops and has been since Jan. 21, three years ago. Thank God he survived.

You would have to be completely oblivious not to notice a correlation between the two incidents. On Sept. 21, staff writers with the Chronicle wrote, “Police say the episode began when they got a 911 call from a tipster who gave the license plate of a car and said the two males in it had guns.”

On April 29, 2003, in a story detailing the improper conduct used in the MLK Day incident, Jaxon Van Derbeken reported, “police were summoned by word that two African American men were seen taking guns out of a burgundy-colored car near the Boys and Girls Club.”

Sounds like the same story to me.

Since the death of Officer Isaac Espinoza – who some residents claim was a dirty cop – the Bayview police squad has shown their true colors. “Accidental” deaths of Black men while in custody, mysterious disappearances of Hunters Point youth and a rise in unsolved murders during the wee hours of the morning – when most people know that HP is a ghost town – lead me to believe that there may be more to the folks in our justice department than meets the eye.

Maybe the unsolved mysteries are gang related – we’re just looking for the wrong gang.

A lot of us are suffering from voluntary ignorance. Somehow, there are those of us who still believe that the police will save us and that they will take all the bad people away and leave us poor Negroes be. I’ve got a news flash for you, Hunters Point: To them, we are the bad people.

We’ve allowed the construction of a ball park, businesses and even a light rail system to take place without us – and without receiving one dime. We’ve allowed so-called District 10 representatives like the ever-missing-in-action Sophie Maxwell into our community and have gotten nothing but grief in return. We’ve even allowed multi-million dollar projects like the renovation of the Hunters Point Shipyard to go on right under our noses, without getting so much as a nod or a “howdy do.”

Meanwhile, we’re down at YCD doing pushups in the rain and can’t even get a job at McDonald’s. Why are we letting these people in?

The Hunters Point plantation

We think we know about the Civil Rights Movement; some of us even joined the Million Man March. We think we’ve got it all covered. But what we do not know – or will not admit to – is that within our flock there is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, one who could help to turn this nightmare into the dream our community is meant to be. His name is Gavin Newsom.

In the days of slavery, when the master wanted to cool down rising tensions or suspected the slaves might rise up, he would throw a social, a get-together that gave his nigger slaves and the nigger slaves from neighboring plantations a chance to party and pretend they weren’t slaves for a day.

The women would put on their best, the kids would play games like stick ball and the men would laugh it up until sundown.

They had a meal of assorted pork and chicken parts, roasted on the fire, and that night they’d all go to sleep, bellies full and believing that things might just be all right, as long as they were good niggers – but knowing damn well that come sun-up, they’d be back picking cotton.

Every time our community makes a peep about racial, political and civil injustices or unfair educational standards for our children, Gavin Newsom is right there with his SFPD buddies and a basketball – readying us for a good ol’ fashioned barbecue.

All the while he’s thinking, “I mean, c’mon, what nigger doesn’t like chicken and basketball, right? A quick game of 3-on-3 is sure to calm those darkies down.”

He even calls up KMEL to play that “Trick-a-Nigga” soundtrack, and we fall for it every time. If you think this guy is gonna lead us into “promised land,” I got news for you, Black folks: Gavin Newsom ain’t Harriet Tubman.

Newsom may show up at a press conference – with a bucket full of crocodile tears – crying on cue and declaring war on crime, but he is nowhere to be found when the police shoot us down in the streets. I guess he’s too busy funding programs like YCD’s “boot camp” – half assed “employment training” that teach you to be completely submissive to authority and that doing pushups at 5:00 in the morning guarantees you a job – that help to perpetuate the niggerisms that tear this community apart. Programs that turn young brothers back to the street because they seldom give the results they promise.

Newsom is bringing the police to our doorsteps and telling us that they are the solution, to trust him. And loving people that we are, we’ve been applauding him for hiring Lennar to build housing on a site so toxically contaminated that the average lifespan of the residents in the surrounding area is less than 50 years. Way to go, Gavin!

While we’re being murdered and incarcerated, beaten and discriminated against by his overseers – the SFPD – Massa Gavin’s hands remain clean. The only thing Black he ever has to touch is the pen he uses to sign our homes, our community and our lives away to white folks just like him.

Putting our fists in the system

Our community does not need to be “policed” by people who would rather kill us than keep us. Our community does not need help to raise our children, to build our families, to worship our Gods. How can we expect them to help build up the Bayview when their job is to tear it down?

We’ve been here for generations, and after rioting and protesting and marching, we have yet to be rewarded for our suffering. Not once have we been given the respect we are due. It’s time to stop singing and shout, people!

Yes, they are “renovating” our neighborhood, but these palm trees and train tracks are not for us. These new walkways were not constructed to hold our footsteps – but I can promise you that they will!

Many will lie down and let their spirits die, knowing that a grave is being built for them in the Shipyard. While our brothers continue to murder each other – believing that they are so unworthy of living that taking another man’s life couldn’t possibly soil their character – a grave has been built at 850 Bryant.

While we are deprived of adequate housing, healthcare and employment, a grave is being dug for us. Just as Nagin, Bush and NOPD dug our grave in New Orleans, Newsom and the SFPD are digging our grave in San Francisco.

Don’t let them bury you, Black people. Just as our numbers are dwindling, they can also rise. Be strong enough to say “enough.” As they sprinkle deception and lies over your heads, wake up and raise your Black fists.

Take hold of what was yours all along. Bayview Hunters Point belongs to us. We have a right to fight for our community and our families. Put up your dukes.

Demand justice for Cammerin Boyd, demand justice for Idriss Stelley, demand justice for Tyrelle Taylor, for the missing and “accidentally” murdered, for the children without fathers, for the mothers without sons. Demand justice for Bayview Hunters Point, and if they won’t give it to you, take it!

Email Ebony at ebonywrites [at] sfbayview.com.


http://www.sfbayview.com/101905/wakeup101905.shtml
Add Your Comments

Comments (Hide Comments)
by Been here, seen that
You're too late. Your neighborhood is bought and paid for. You might as well start looking for somewhere else to live. Don't bother with looking at public housing, because there won't be any. Mission Bay is coming. Third St Rail is coming. Ten thousand upscale condos are coming. You are in the way. People will no longer tolerate the disorder and chaos that you bring to the city. They are tired of your social dysfunction. Tired of your welfare dependency. Tired of your crime. Tired of your out of control thug kids. Tired of your lame excuses that racism is to blame for your failure. Go ahead, Ebony, make another bunch of excuses. It won't matter, because the decision has already been made about what to do with the new San Francisco. And you are not in it.
by Bro D
Ebony,

Are you angry about smoething?
by A Person
Don't get bitter, get better. YOU are the problem...blame everyone but yourself for your lot in life...it's the same old story.
by Sid
Maybe if people in BV stopped selling dope and killing each other, the SFPD wouldn't have to have such a presence out there....You wnat the SFPD to raise your kids for you...That's not their job. Their job is to enforce the laws of the State of California, hence the term "law enforcement". Maybe if the folks who get arrested and get shot weren't committing crimes or pointing guns, the SFPD could just fade away...But as far as you are concerned , Ebony, I'd like to know of one of these incidents that you were at and witnessed for yourself...otherwise you are taking what you have heard third and fourth hand and making it fact...You should have learned better in your community college journalism course.
by coco Crispy
Another uneducated, uninformed and ignorant person placing the blame on everyone else for the problems in the community...
by Copwatch exposing police corruption
It is important to expose the levels of corruption found in the SFPD. Not really much different from the NOPD, LAPD, NYPD and just about every other bunch of thugs in uniform, the police wield their badges and guns with authority and use bully tactics to get over on the community. My guess is that certain key individuals in the police force are working together with the politicians and the drug lords to maintain a culture of disorder and despair in the lower income communities like Bayview/HP. Just look at how quickly community gardens are targeted for developement for wealthy condominiums for yuppies. Nothing positive gets to fly in the lower income neighborhoods, giving the police and their crime quota the chance to breed on the despair and boredom..

Eventually the toxic smog of Hunter's Point/Bayview PG&E power plant will be no more, the ineffecient and polluting bayview natural gas combustion plant will be shut down, but will this happen before or after urban renewal programs that evict the low income tenants from the housing projects and replace with yuppie condos. Maybe the developers are waiting for the eventual earthquake, sort of how the urban redevelopment in New Orleans 9th ward was waiting for the severe hurricane and collapse of unmaintained levees, degraded wetlands buffers, etc.. to evict the public housing tenants of 9th ward neighborhood and replace with yuppie condos courtesy of Halliburton??

Residents of Bayview Hunters Point have a right to a healthy environment free of smog and petrochemical pollution, and also free of police violence and the related parallel violence from drug lord infusion. The "omerta" code of the police fraternal order enables corruption to continue with no interference. When the police themselves create or thrive on the conditions leading to criminal behavior, then the police are enablers or co-depenants of the criminal elements. Then there's the other issue that police mainly exist to protect the wealthy and the ruling elite from the people who are angered by the deceit and criminal behavior of the wealthy corporations..

What may work better for the community is to police itself, without interference from the SFPD organized crime syndicate. This kind of needs to happen everywhere. One good way to begin this process is to organize a Copwatch group of civilian patrol to monitor the police force. Through Copwatch people can also reach out in the community and include prevention in their activities..

These are just my opinions based on limited personal observations..

luna moth

Maybe there already is a Copwatch organizing in SF, but if not here's the Berkeley Copwatch website;

http://www.berkeleycopwatch.org/

"Berkeley Copwatch is the original Copwatch group. We began in 1990 on Telegraph Ave. as an all-volunteer organization dedicated to monitoring police actions and non-violently asserting our rights. Since that time, many Copwatch-type organizations have sprung up across the nation, in various forms. You are welcome to copy any of the materials on our website and use them to help educate the public and to start a Copwatch group in your community. Although you may find web pages or organizations that call themselves "Copwatch", read through their material carefully. Berkeley Copwatch is based on the idea that WATCHING the police is a crucial first step in the process of organizing. We do not attempt to interfere in police activity or to resist police misconduct physically. It is our hope that, one day, mass outrage at police and government violence will increase to a point where fundamental change in the nature of policing becomes inevitable.

Berkeley Copwatch's Goals

Our main goal is to reduce police violence by directly observing the police on the street, documenting incidents and keeping police accountable. We maintain principles of non-violence while asserting the rights of the detained person. We provide support to victims whenever possible. We also seek to educate the public about their rights, police conduct in the community and issues related to the role of police in our society.

Our other goal is to empower and unite the community to resist police abuse. We will do this by sharing information with the community, conducting "Know Your Rights" trainings, sponsoring rallies, supporting victims and other community based efforts to deal with the problem. We also encourage people to solve problems WITHOUT police intervention. We want to explore alternatives to calling the police. Most importantly, we encourage people to exercise their right to observe the police and to advocate for one another."
by Bro D
What planet do you live on????? I bet your psychiatrist is making a killing off you.
by b
Wow, that Luna Moth gets around. For other exciting statements by him, read the enviro. side of this site.
§m
by y
police in the northwest threaten black men routinely and get away with it.police are using 911 attack to justify their latent racist goon tendencies.will earth hurricanes and human insurgency of the dispossesed and plant animal kingdoms finally break the straw of nazi racist USA? they are clearly playing with fire.its not nice to fool mother earth.little po- leece may feel major horror SOON.we must be vigilant and protective of african descended peoples.
by above your bathroom sink
Psssst... It's us, your meds. You forgot to take us.
by no heroes save ourselves
>Psssst... It's us, your meds. You forgot to take us.

What a childish bunch of BS. If the best you can come with is "take your meds," why should anybody listen to you?

We are going to hold the cops accountable. You don't like it? Too bad. I'm sorry you live in some kind of Mayberry RFD fantasy land, but that's not our problem.
by let's talk about forced medication in prison
Well, looks like the trolls just don't get it. Everytime they mention psychiatrists and medications, don't they think this will inspire another lecture from moi?

Since this thread is on police brutality, we can include the prison-industrial complex and the pharma/psychiatric establishment and their forced experimentation on prison populations..

"Hospital psychiatry is very similar to the prison system. In the prison or correctional system psychiatrists have been used as consultants to design dangerous, unethical behaviour modification programs and to conduct high risk drug experiments on prisoners. Both the psychiatric system and the prison system systematically use fear, force and fraud for the purpose of social control and punishment - not for purposes of treatment or rehabilitation, both of which are euphemisms. It is or should be obvious that forced treatment is in fact punishment. It is frequently cruel and usual and should therefore be banned in the United States under that nation's Eighth constitutional amendment. Virtually all treatments in psychiatric facilities are forced or administered without informed consent. They are administered against the "patient's" (the prisoner's) will or with consent obtained by threatening the "patient" with worse consequences, or with consent obtained by keeping the "patient" unaware of important information about serious risks and alternatives. Informed consent in psychiatry is a cruel sham. It doesn't exist."

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/weitz2.htm

Here's a response from Support Coalition International (Mindfreedom) to a Human Rights Watch report that endorses increased psychiatric medication compliance in the prison population..

"Rise of the Chemical Prison.

MindFreedom OPPOSES Human Rights Watch Recommendation Today on Prisoners Diagnosed With Psychiatric Disabilities.

Today, the prestigious human rights organization Human Rights Watch (HRW) released a major report about USA prisons and people diagnosed with psychiatric disabilities. The report includes several recommendations to the US Congress.

MindFreedom Support Coalition International opposes the top priority recommendation of HRW: To fund more "mental health courts" as a "diversion" program for people accused of crimes who are experiencing severe mental and emotional programs.

Said David Oaks, Director of MindFreedom: "HRW has done great in ringing an alarm bell. But mental health courts have an overwhelming emphasis on coerced psychiatric drugging. We are pro choice on psychiatric drugs. Many of our members choose to take psychiatric drugs voluntarily. But HRW's approach unfortunately amounts to moving from a steel prison to a chemical prison."

In an Associated Press article today, Jamie Fellner, co-author of the report and director of HRW's U.S. program, said:

"Most people with a serious mental illness need structured days, they need therapy, they need far more than just medication. They cannot simply sit idle with their demons in a cell; it makes them worse.''

The HRW report itself also included concerns about problems associated with psychiatric drugs inside prison, including death.

Said Oaks: "HRW has told the media that 'medication' is not enough. But mental health courts that already exist are often being used as enforcers to make people take powerful, dangerous psychiatric drugs."

HRW's report also calls for better "medication compliance" techniques inside prisons. The HRW report mainly calls for alternatives to supplement, but not to replace, psychiatric drugs.

MindFreedom's position is that *all* people in jail and prison have a right to a full range of voluntary humane alternatives, including job training, counseling, peer support, nutritional programs and more.

Because some of the main psychiatric drugs used for people diagnosed with "serious mental illness" are neuroleptics that can cause structural brain damage, MindFreedom's position is that all forced psychiatric drugging inherently amounts to "cruel and unusual punishment," that is also a violation of the right to free speech and free thought.

"Historically, the psychiatric survivors movement is part of the prison justice movement," said Oaks. "We are calling for massive change throughout the prison system. Unfortunately, HRW report will be used by organizations funded by the drug industry to lobby for drugging a captive audience at taxpayer expense." "

http://www.mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/chemicalprisons.shtml

The trolls just couldn't just let sleeping dogs lie, eh? All the better, the situations created by the prison-industrial complex needs to be addressed more often. The problems with prison/psych authority is far ranging, and includes the psychiatric establishment's forced chemical behavior modification programs. Compliance with psychiatric medication is desired by the prison/psych authorities because they want people to work for below minimum wage in the prison-industrial complex with no room for protest. No health benefits, no unions, no transportation, no sick or vacation days, just CLANG "get up and work" then CLANG "go to sleep". This is fascism similar to the work til death camps of Nazi Germany, this time prisons in the USA populated with Africans, Mexicans, low income Europeans, indigenous North Americans and many others. People in prisons zonked out on neuroleptic psychiatric tranquilizers are less likely to resist authority, initially discovered in Nazi death camps after exposing inmates to fluoride compounds (see IG FARBEN)..

Many people do envision a different world where prisons and psychiatrists no longer need to exist. There may be no need for prisons if equality is valued above materialism. Creating and perpetuating inequality and isolation results in people not feeling good, and eventually the surrounding poverty gets to people. By restoring equality and community people can overcome the risks of poverty and violent and/or (self)destructive behavior. This will negate the need for prisons, psychiatrists and police, the autonomous community can look after one another in a kinder and more appropriate manner..

luna moth
by Jack Knoff
You are going to hold the police accountable for what? Shooting men armed with guns?
Cammerin Boyd - Gun
Tyrelle Taylor - Gun
Gus Rugley - Gun
Idriss Stelley - Knife

If you want the cops to stop shooting people, maybe a better plan would be to stop carrying guns and pointing them at the cops...Sounds kind of logical doesn't it.
by us
thank you for talking about forced drugging.i have benn permanently damaged by forced drugging and i am a non violent cooperative person.my life has been damaged beyond repair from stroke caused by forced drugging for even a relatively ''short'' time.i just cant tell you more right now because i am tired of this nazi like madness.the nazi's killed people under the guise of ''psychiatry'' and the united states is still poisoning and taking peoples lives. again, alert the world to this fascist insanity.there is no time for fooling around.the state is on attak mode
by it's called "sarcasm"
People, my post about the neglected lonely meds in a certain medicine cabinet was not meant to be taken seriously - and was not supposed to inspire essays on the evils of the psychiatric establishment, for chrissakes. It's called HUMOR, an ingredient sorely needed on this page.

P.S. Makes sense to me, Jack.

by no heroes save ourselves
>It's called HUMOR, an ingredient sorely needed on this page.

Well...no. This isn't a humor site, let alone a right wing humor site. If that's what you're looking for, you're in the wrong place.
by no heroes save ourselves
>accountable for what?

Not everybody who is shot by the cops is armed -- further, if an unarmed martial arts practitioner can disarm someone with a gun, what excuse do the cops have? You make it sound as if every person who has ever been killed by the cops was ready to ventilate some cop's head.

Or to be more direct? The lies aren't going to work anymore. Nice try, though.
by Bro D
So...these unarmed martial artists who disarm peopke with guns...what jackie Chan movie are you talking about? This is real life....not the drama that is playing in your head you fool.
by no heroes save ourselves
>So...these unarmed martial artists who disarm peopke with guns...what jackie Chan movie are you talking about? This is real life....not the drama that is playing in your head you fool.

Um, excuse me? If you've ever taken so much as a martial arts class, you would know that disarming someone with a knife or a gun is standard intermediate and advanced training.

But back to the point -- namely, that shooting one 41 times (Diallo), or gunning down an elderly woman in her home (Bumpers), or yes, using several cops to fire at a someone having an episode, knife or not (Stelley), is wrong.

Again -- we are here to hold the cops accountable. That's what October 22nd is about, and that's what we're about. You don't like it? At least have the intelligence and courage to actually debate with us. Otherwise, who is the fool?
by Bro D
Debate about what? The fact is you people hate the police no matter what they do..Your statements about martial arts are ridiculous. It's easy to disarm a martial arts instructor who is holding a toy gun or a plastic knife. Why don't you disarm someone who is pointing that gun at you with one of your Bruce Lee kung fu kicks? It don't work...You'd have a bullet in your melon. AS far as Idriss Stelley is concerned you weren't there...the reports that I have seen said the cops did everything they could to disarm him...until the knife he was swinging around sliced open a cops shirt....I guess you, with all your karate training would have been able to disarm him? You will never know because you will always be sitting on the sidelines being a Monday morning quarterback.
by October 22
Maybe groups like October 22 would have a better reputation if they actually spoke out about questionable police shootings. But putting all police involved shootings together makes them look foolish. Some of the people they are protesting for are no good thugs who chose their own fate. (Cammerin Boyd)
by Jackie Chan
Anyone can take a plastic gun away at Karate Class from someone who is NOT going to shoot you....The person who said that the cops could disarm people with Karate moves is a complete Jack Ass.
by October 25
Hey October 22...your day is over. Stop Posting.
Sincerely,
October 25
by Mr. X
The foolish statements on this thread are pissing me off. We don't want the cops to shoot INNOCENT people. But when people are committing violent crimes with deadly weapons and those weapons are then turned on the police...it is their duty to shoot to end the threat. If the person dies because of it...That's the choice they made.
by Bof A Hollywood
So..let me get this straight..The LAPD should have just tried to disrm the two bank robbers at the B of A shoot out in West Hollywood Kung Fu style? Instead of bringing SWAT, they should have called in Jean Claude Van Damme, Steven Seagal and Chuck Norris.
by no heroes save ourselves
>So..let me get this straight..The LAPD should have just tried to disrm the two bank robbers at the B of A shoot out in West Hollywood Kung Fu style? Instead of bringing SWAT, they should have called in Jean Claude Van Damme, Steven Seagal and Chuck Norris.<

No, that's not what I'm saying, for god's sakes. What I am saying is that if someone can be trained to disarm someone without a weapon (and please, let's not belabor this,) then what excuse to the police have when they're pretty much armed to the teeth?

If it makes you more comfortable, I retract the comment about martial arts -- which still leaves us with a fully armed, killer police force. Now what?

Further, not everybody who is killed by the police fits the descriptions you're giving. As I said before, do your homework. If you think you're beyond being knocked off by the cops (due to race, class, mental ability, whatever), I would put forth that you're mistaken. Innocent, unarmed people are killed by the police. So what are you going to do about it, Mr./Ms. Law Abiding Citizen, hmmm?

All in all? The police are supposed to work for us, not the other way around.
by no heroes save ourselves
>Hey October 22...your day is over. Stop Posting.

What do you think this is, Fox News? In a word: No.

> you're pissing me off

Well, great. That makes two of us. Can we get back to discussing this, or do you just want to keep on trolling until the next flame war comes along?

The police, at the very least, are in bad need of reform. You stand in the way of that? You're part of the problem.
by Thank You
As long as thugs run around with guns then I am going to be "part of the problem". Maybe if people like you let the cops do their jobs, they wouldn't need to be armed. But instead...everytime a cop arrests someone or has to take someone to the ground you and your gang of ingnorant dim wits are there to scream police brutality. You could care less about the person that thug just victimized. Typical of the liberal mind...love the criminals but screw the victims.
by Innocent and Unarmed
Hey..innocent, unarmed people are more often killed by gun carrying thugs than the police. I'll take my cahnces with the cops rather than with some thugged out hood. ops are bound by the Bill of rights....criminals are not. You are jsut a cop hater...probably because you got a ticket for riding your bike without a head light.
by no heroes save ourselves
>True. I am just a cop hating, ignorant rich white kid...but I do own a Che Guevara T-shirt..so that makes a revolutionary.

Oh yeah, that would be me. Not. You can assume whatever you want about me, but you're wrong.
by no heroes save ourselves
>Hey..innocent, unarmed people are more often killed by gun carrying thugs than the police.

The difference is, if someone who isn't a cop kills someone, they go to jail, frequently for life, or are sentanced to death. In contrast, most killer cops may get benched for a while, but frequently, they don't even get fired, no matter whether the killing was justified or not.

You seem to think that all killings by the police is OK. Is this true? If not, please say when you think it's not OK.
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