New Illegal Logging by Maxxam/Palco May Indicate More to Come

This is a continuation of a thread from Rogue imc with some individuals who chose to defend private logging corporations like Maxxam/PL, Weyerhauser, etc..

Part of debating with the opposition includes making a sound arguement in favor of what we would like to happen. This includes an end to corporate logging and a return of stolen land to original indigenous caretakers..

This can apply to Maxxam/PL, Plum (scum) Creek, Roseburg, SPI, Weyerhauser, etc..

For entire thread of comments and debate visit rogue imc article "an opposite perspective" or direct linx @;

http://rogueimc.org/en/2005/09/5351.shtml

Moon Muffin, Chane Sau, et al., you say anarchist like it's a bad thing!!

Yes, my ideology is mostly anarchist with a bit of communism and libertarianism mixed in. My actual lifestyle is caught between lesser evil "green" capitalism and trade/barterism or handout/dumpster divinism. Combine that with some primitivism, and yes, definite anti-corporatism (aka anti-fascism)! Anarchism is more than just some people throwing bottles in the street, it involves a symbiosis with the ecosystem and other people without any intervention from government or corporations. To learn more about different anarchist ideology and lifestyle..

http://www.greenanarchy.org/

http://www.iww.org/

http://www.anarchosyndicalism.net/as.php

Under this current corporatist system most people are not able to really live free on the land, since the capitalist concept of private property and police state politics tends to prevent any long term land occupation where growing food would be an option. Some community gardens show that living free would be possible if the developers would give the condominium construction a rest. The idea about hunting antelope isn't so bad (if they were restored to a greater herd size), only that antelope and bison were driven to near extinction by European immigrant's commercial hunting, not the thousands of years of indigenous sustainance hunting. For vegans and vegetarians, there are also many native plants in the ecosystem capable of providing people and animals with their nutritional needs, as example, acorn bread (from oaks) is delicious after leaching acorns!!

BTW, the current US model of corporate forestry is actually corporate socialism, with large corporations being given tax breaks and even subsidies from taxpayers. Ask any libertarian, this is NOT considered an example of free market capitalism, nor is corporate socialism an example of socialism for and by the people. Cuba is doing a good job of providing people with food post industrial agriculture. Community gardens in downtown Havana and people raising beneficial insectos on rooftops shows that we can take care of ourselves without corporate agriculture..

http://www.organicconsumers.org/Organic/cubagarden.cfm

The merger of corporations and government = fascism. That is what the reality of modern day corporate US government gives the people and ecosystem. Short term profit for stockholders is valued above long term ecosystem health, whether in forests or farmlands. Maxxam/PL, Weyerhauser, Plum (scum) Creek, Roseburg, Sierra Pacific Industries are all private timber corporations, to add insult to injury, they also can engage in clearcutting on public (national forest) land. For more info on timber corporations;

SPI corporate profile;
http://www.endgame.org/spi.html

http://www.endgame.org/

The Haida Nation is an example of indigenous north americans being better able to manage the forest ecosystem than private (for-profit) corporations like Plum Creek, Maxxam/PL, etc. Most indigenous cultures include ecology in their spiritual beliefs and think of the well being of the seventh generation into the future when making decisions today. This is the vital component missing from today's corporations. The idea of perpetual growth and profit under capitalism doesn't mesh well with seventh generation ecology. The history of corporations in north america and elsewhere is mostly about workers struggling to survive and preventing corporate monopolies from driving people and ecosystems into the ground..

"Xaaydaa Hlk'iiyan K'aaws Kyaang.aay Laa
(People who look after the Forest)

Haida culture is our relationship to the land in its totality. Ginn7waadluwaan gud7ahl Kwaagiidang-everything depends on everything else. The old forests of Haida Gwaii have sustained and continue to sustain our way of life. In the past fifty years, industrial logging has transformed the landscape of Haida Gwaii from diverse old forest to young, even-aged stands of one or two species. The major river systems that once provided Haida villages with salmon; large cedars for longhouses and monumental art; and, plants for food, medicines, fiber and animal habitat have been eradicated by logging without consideration for these values..

The Haida Nation is not against logging per se, but believes that logging can be done in a more responsible manner. Our position is that some places must be left intact and that logging be practiced in a way that does not spoil the land or waterways. This applies to every one who is logging. Nobody, including ourselves, has the right to wreck the land."

http://www.haidanation.ca/

One doesn't need to be an anarchist, communist or other "ist" to recognize that the indigenous people of North America know something that European immigrants may have forgotten. The claims that corporations make on owning land is only because the original indigenous caretakers of the land were forced off by genocide and relocation pogroms. My opinion is that the stolen land currently claimed by private timber corporations be returned to the indigenous people today whose ancestors once looked after the forests. The private timber corporations have proven themselves ineffective at logging without creating severe ecological damage. Now is the time to give indigenous communities the chance to restore and reclaim the wounded forest lands into their care..

Am giving invitation to Moon Muffin, Truth Detective, Chane Sau, etc. to debate why the corporations should be allowed to continue claiming land as property that was stolen from indigenous peoples by genocide and forced relocation..