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Indybay Feature
Communique from Anarchist Action Organizers of the SFJuly 8 Anti-G8 March
On July 8, 2005 approximately 300 people marched in the San Francisco Mission district in solidarity with demonstrators attempting to shut down the G8 Summit in Scotland. These 300 people marched and at times engaged in militant direct action in response to the oppressive global capitalist system and the state of perpetual imperial war that it has created.
Communique from Anarchist Action Organizers of the July 8 SF Anti-War, Anti-Capitalist March Against the G8
On July 8, 2005 approximately 300 people marched in the San Francisco Mission district in solidarity with demonstrators attempting to shut down the G8 Summit in Scotland. These 300 people marched and at times engaged in militant direct action in response to the oppressive global capitalist system and the state of perpetual imperial war that it has created.The G8 (Group of Eight) is made up of the ruling class leaders of eight imperialist governments- the United States, Britain, France, Germany, Canada,Italy, Japan, and Russia. Every year, they meet secretly to set global economic and social policies, which result in misery, poverty, alienation, wage slavery, war, structural racism and sexism, and environmental destruction that affectsthe majority of the world's population-the working class, the poor, and the colonized. With the continued US occupation of Iraq, the systematic genocide of the Iraqi people, and with Iran looming on the horizon as the next target of the American Empire, it is time for autonomous resistance as well as social and economic sabotage to be stepped up.These and other forms of direct action are necessary in order to stop the war and to disrupt the disgusting system that produced it. July 8 was a move in that direction.
The difference between an anarchist approach to organizing a march and typical authoritarian leftist and liberal methods is that the latter seeks to control the actions of the participants, often squashing attempts at direct action. Authoritarian leftist and liberal groups favor routine, symbolic protests and beg for reforms from the ruling class. This does little in terms of actual resistance to the war or to whatever social condition is being opposed. An anarchist approach rejects all forms of authority and therefore does not set protest laws or try to keep people within boundaries- we believe in freedom and when we take to the streets that is the atmosphere we want. Anarchist Action does not coordinate, plan or participate in direct action, economic sabotage, or any other similar actions, we simply organize a protest space in which people may autonomously enact a diversity oftactics, and express their resistance in whatever way they choose.
Demonstrators at the July 8th action met at 8pm at the 16th & Mission BART Plaza. During the first half hour, protesters converged, and bilingual Anarchist Action pamphlets were distributed to residents, passers-by, and protesters.Over a dozen banners were present expressing creative messages against capitalism, the war, imperialism, police repression, borders, and environmental racism as well as espousing anarchism and social justice. English and Spanish Anarchist Action banners and a Not In Our Name banner were present. Within a few minutes of marching, the SFPD declared the march illegal and ordered those present to disperse. People continued to march down Mission St. and we were pushed from the streets onto the sidewalks. The sound system was confiscated and the person carrying it was arrested relatively quickly for noise "violations." At this point, the protest remained legal.Despite this fact, the police continued to push and otherwise physically intimidate protesters.
Once the march turned onto Valencia Street (a major hotbed of gentrification in the Mission), some protesters autonomously began setting up newspaper boxes in the streets as barricades. The newspaper box barricades were a fitting symbol of the economic barricades that capital and the State have placed between the working-class community of Mission St. and the increasingly gentrified and yuppie-filled Valencia St. The march broke up as one portion was blocked in by riot police and the other portion outran the cops. Social rage boiled and riotous and militant conditions began to coalesce. Protesters were in the streets for over three hours. Throughout that time, the march was periodically broken into different groups, taking different routes along Mission & Valencia streets. Many took their own initiative and, rather than take orders from an authority (whether it be the cops or the "leaders" of the protest), proceeded to break the chains of constraint and do what they desired and felt was necessary- expressing radical resistance and participating in economic sabotage against the System. Many corporate businesses run by the rich capitalist class, including those investing in the Iraq War, were targeted for property destruction. Many newspaper stands were placed in the roads as barricades to block the police. There was no central command. Instead, affinity groups and individuals autonomously decided to make direct actions take place.
Thousands of bilingual Anarchist Action pamphlets (available at: anarchistaction.org/g8pamphlet.pdf) were distributed throughout the night. The general response from working-class residents of Mission St. was positive; some participated in the march and some chanted with us against capitalism and the police. Quite a number of the protestors were working-class residents of the Mission, and the majority of the Anarchist Action organizers of the March are people of color. The yuppies out on Valencia St., however, seemed quite turned off and threatened-it is true, we are attempting to threaten their privileged status in class society. It is unjust that while thousands go without food and homes in San Francisco and even more slave their lives away at shit jobs, yuppies dance around undisturbed in trendy and expensive bars in gentrified areas.
The overall mood of the night was very energetic, and replete with many loud radical chants. Photographers and camera people from both the radical and the bourgeois media were present. Indybay.org provided the breaking news coverage, and a live Enemy Combatant Radio feed, which included music, protest play-by-plays, discussion, and interviews. Sf.indymedia.org and santacruz.indymedia.org were out in full force providing coverage of the night. Corporations which were autonomously targeted for economic sabotage via property destruction and spray painted messages explaining the actions, by militant protestors included:
Two Wells Fargo Banks and a Bank of America ATM: Banks are operated by the rich to coordinate the imposed wage system and are another method of exploiting the working class and making the rich richer. Furthermore, these two banks are direct investors in the Iraq War, which has led to the death of over 100,000 Iraqi civilians and around 2,000 U.S. soldiers.
Kentucky Fried Chicken: This fast food corporation makes enormous profits off of the daily speciesist enslavement, torture, and extermination of thousands of animals. Its workers are forced to do high stress tasks for poverty-wages.
PG&E: The racist, environmentally destructive electric company which operates a power plant that has, for years, been poisoning the poor, predominantly African-American community of Bayview-HunterÕs Point. PG&E also continues to tighten its monopoly of the City's power through sweetheart deals with the cities elite.
Chevron: Genocide and the international military and arms industries have allowed this mega-corporation, which has won huge contracts from the government in the colonial "reconstruction" of Iraq, to keep on pumping out that black gold.
Vanguard Properties: A leader in the gentrification and destruction of our communities. Vanguard like other firms seeks to redevelop the city for rich people only and is cozy with the City's Redevelopment Commission and Planning departments.
Other known businesses that were attacked included Skechers (corporate shoe chain), and Shoebiz (a Valencia St. store that is an agent of gentrification).
The point being is none of these targets represent the working class, predominantly Latino population of the Mission- these are the institutions which are placed in the community to exploit and to funnel wealth and resources outside and into the hands of the rich.
The police, themselves servants to the ruling class-initiated the nightÕs violence as they physically pushed marchers, brutally hit dozens with batons, and made arrests using unreasonable and excessive force. Police repression was met with resistance; multiple cop car windows were smashed and there were reports of smoke bombs being thrown at cops. Although the bourgeois media sensationalized the report of an injured officer, they failed to note that every day in the Mission district and all over this white supremacist society, poor people of color are brutalized by the police Both the police and prison-industrial complex exist to uphold this system of white supremacy and social control.
At least five arrests were made, possibly more considering the consistent disinformation campaign being spewed by SFPD. One Latino protester suffered racist attacks from the Police, having his head smashed against a wall and his belongings taken. Jail solidarity outside the Valencia St. Police station was conducted that night, with around 40 people initially participating. Later into the night, protesters discovered that Sixth Amendment rights to an attorney were being violated for the detainees. 15 people spontaneously entered the station demanding these rights for their comrades. At least three innocent people are facing felony charges, some still being held in jail. An autonomous legal support collective has formed to provide for any protesters facing legal repercussions. Donations for bail and legal support are being collectedÑcall the National Lawyers Guild Hotline (425-285-1011) for more information on this. We view July 8 as a step forward for anti-war, anti-capitalist, and anarchist movements in the San Francisco Bay Area. For the first time in two years, protesters (at the same time) outmaneuvered the cops, caused significant economic damage to the rich, and did not get arrested en masse.
This summer, Anarchist Action San Francisco will be involved in multiple organizing projects and multiple actions are planned. MUNI Social Strike will be coordinating with autonomous self-organized transit workers and organizing a fare strike and actions against the MUNI fare increase, service cuts, and layoffs for drivers. On Sep. 16, the racist vigilante Minutemen will be patrolling the California-Mexico border, and a mass action will take place to resist them and the system of borders, governments, and racism that they uphold. On Sep. 24-26, there will be an anarchist march and mass actions against the War and the IMF/World Bank. Check the website for updates!
Don't Wait for Instructions, Don't Ask for Permission
Resist the System! Free your Desires and Take Action Now
Realize your Dreams and Destroy the Capitalist Nightmare!
AA Pamphlet available for reading, distribution, and plagarism at:
anarchistaction.org/g8pamphlet.pdf
For more information:
http://anarchistaction.org
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a minor correction to an important statement.
Talk about conformity. Self-righteous anarchists march in lockstep to a jargon-drenched ideology that colonizes the mind with a cheap, two-dimensional interpretation of the world. Refusing to accept the complexity of reality, they hide behind masks in a Rush Limbaugh mirror world. Their allegedly superior insight, their unique ability to demystify "capitalist false consciousness" apparently gives them the right to pass judgement according to a thoughtless "us versus them" scheme that depends more on fashion than compassion. Rationalize your violence all you want. All you'll ever smash with your lazy slogans is a few windows.
A revolutionary's first duty is to survive.
All you do is insult everybody else.
Keep up the good work in the Bay Area! Your work is inspirational to many folks. Let's keep up the pressure and spread the Anarchist Action concpet around the country.
For more information:
http://www.infoshop.org/
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props to generalisimo's comments, i agree.
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This statement is so much garbage. It is so disappointing, quite a let-down. This two-dimensional class analysis bullshit is so outdated, and yet these anarcho-idiots use it to justify violence and breaking property in the Mission Dist. What the fuck is wrong with you!?
And by distinguishing yourselves away from the "liberal" and "authoritarian" left is so fucking divisive in your marching philosophy, you ain't gonna get NO allies or sympathy. You are doing NOTHING to build any movement, but instead your egos. I normally wouldn't say shit, but I happened to know some of you who took part in organizing and mobilizing this and worry that now you're trying to speak for all of us who live under oppression from capitalism, G8 policies, gentrification, what the fuck!!??? Who do you think you are making communique's like this one, speaking for oppressed peoples by way of your violent and unaccountable actions?
Never thought Anarcho-Vanguardism could be possible, until this fabulous AA-SF statement. Oh well.
Next time you speak about gentrification, look around and see how many Mission community folks (NOT suburbian anarchists who moved in over the past several years) are there at your march BEFORE claiming your action as benign towards their oppression from & struggle against gentrification in their own neighborhood.
"The majority of the AA organizers of the March are people of color." WHO? And why do you tokenize poc organizers of the March? This is so out of context, it's fucking incredible, but unfortunately believeable for a statement that is so pretentious about white supremacy affecting the Mission District. It's mostly poc that WORK in those Mission businesses that a bunch of anarcho-dweebs from the suburbs were smashing and tagging windows at.
I'm keeping anonymous cause at least some of you in AA have lost your minds and differ none from neo-Nazi/KKK/Limbaugh/GOP-loving idiots with a statement like this, you just happen to be on the extreme left side of the maniacal white gringo political spectrum.
So much for revolution Friday night.
props to generalisimo's comments, i agree.
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This statement is so much garbage. It is so disappointing, quite a let-down. This two-dimensional class analysis bullshit is so outdated, and yet these anarcho-idiots use it to justify violence and breaking property in the Mission Dist. What the fuck is wrong with you!?
And by distinguishing yourselves away from the "liberal" and "authoritarian" left is so fucking divisive in your marching philosophy, you ain't gonna get NO allies or sympathy. You are doing NOTHING to build any movement, but instead your egos. I normally wouldn't say shit, but I happened to know some of you who took part in organizing and mobilizing this and worry that now you're trying to speak for all of us who live under oppression from capitalism, G8 policies, gentrification, what the fuck!!??? Who do you think you are making communique's like this one, speaking for oppressed peoples by way of your violent and unaccountable actions?
Never thought Anarcho-Vanguardism could be possible, until this fabulous AA-SF statement. Oh well.
Next time you speak about gentrification, look around and see how many Mission community folks (NOT suburbian anarchists who moved in over the past several years) are there at your march BEFORE claiming your action as benign towards their oppression from & struggle against gentrification in their own neighborhood.
"The majority of the AA organizers of the March are people of color." WHO? And why do you tokenize poc organizers of the March? This is so out of context, it's fucking incredible, but unfortunately believeable for a statement that is so pretentious about white supremacy affecting the Mission District. It's mostly poc that WORK in those Mission businesses that a bunch of anarcho-dweebs from the suburbs were smashing and tagging windows at.
I'm keeping anonymous cause at least some of you in AA have lost your minds and differ none from neo-Nazi/KKK/Limbaugh/GOP-loving idiots with a statement like this, you just happen to be on the extreme left side of the maniacal white gringo political spectrum.
So much for revolution Friday night.
The NLG number's area code is 415, not 425.
I don't think the CIA could have done a better job at making anarchists look ridiculous.
There is some serious ignorance wafting off of that "communique". Phew.
I wonder if you've ever walked down Valencia and been mistaken for a yuppie?
I can't believe I am writing this in response to an Anarchist Communique but here goes: Don't judge a book by its cover.
There is some serious ignorance wafting off of that "communique". Phew.
I wonder if you've ever walked down Valencia and been mistaken for a yuppie?
I can't believe I am writing this in response to an Anarchist Communique but here goes: Don't judge a book by its cover.
Paragraph 2: "Authoritarian leftist and liberal groups favor routine, symbolic protests and beg for reforms from the ruling class."
Paragraph 4: "The newspaper box barricades were a fitting symbol of the economic barricades that capital and the State have placed between the working-class community of Mission St. and the increasingly gentrified and yuppie-filled Valencia St."
I concur with the comment made by "Wee."
I found that this statement from the Anarchist Action Org. is juvenile and rather boring. Please tell me some drunk kid wrote it or something.
As a member of the public (a lifelong resident of the Mission district- 23 years), your statement does not persuade me to support your acts. I might have, had you done your action in the Financial District- lots of corporate targets there- Bechtel, the Steele Foundation, etc.
I'm no fan of the cops, but I do not support you either. Once your insignificant little protest ends, you go back to your homes in other parts of the bay and call it a day. What contributions, if any, have you made to the community (Mission District) besides vandalism?
- Rick James
"I'm Rick James, b*tch."
Paragraph 4: "The newspaper box barricades were a fitting symbol of the economic barricades that capital and the State have placed between the working-class community of Mission St. and the increasingly gentrified and yuppie-filled Valencia St."
I concur with the comment made by "Wee."
I found that this statement from the Anarchist Action Org. is juvenile and rather boring. Please tell me some drunk kid wrote it or something.
As a member of the public (a lifelong resident of the Mission district- 23 years), your statement does not persuade me to support your acts. I might have, had you done your action in the Financial District- lots of corporate targets there- Bechtel, the Steele Foundation, etc.
I'm no fan of the cops, but I do not support you either. Once your insignificant little protest ends, you go back to your homes in other parts of the bay and call it a day. What contributions, if any, have you made to the community (Mission District) besides vandalism?
- Rick James
"I'm Rick James, b*tch."
Put a little thought into your actions and your writing both are so one-sided and transparent that you may win a few battles but you've already lost the war.
<<As a member of the public (a lifelong resident of the Mission district- 23 years), your statement does not persuade me to support your acts. I might have, had you done your action in the Financial District- lots of corporate targets there- Bechtel, the Steele Foundation, etc.>>
I didn't attend Friday's demo and I don't think it's beyond reproach, but this line of argument is starting to get pretty fucking stale.
I keep on hearing people invoke the fact that they live in the Mission as if that fact gives them instant cred. Anyone who knows anything about the Mission--and i know something, having lived there most of the time between '90-'96--knows that ain't so. The Mission is, last time I checked, a lot more expensive than most of Oakland and a good portion of Berkeley--so be suspicious of those who act like living in the Mission gives them a superior, more authentic view of things, let alone lisence to pontificate mindlessly.
Going to the financial district--which the above pious mission dweller above endorses retrospectively--would have made no sense at all. Nobody is in the financial district on a Friday evening--and even if there were, "targeting" a corporate-owned pane of glass is a far cry from challenging the power of capital. We need numbers and strategic intelligence, y'all.
I didn't attend Friday's demo and I don't think it's beyond reproach, but this line of argument is starting to get pretty fucking stale.
I keep on hearing people invoke the fact that they live in the Mission as if that fact gives them instant cred. Anyone who knows anything about the Mission--and i know something, having lived there most of the time between '90-'96--knows that ain't so. The Mission is, last time I checked, a lot more expensive than most of Oakland and a good portion of Berkeley--so be suspicious of those who act like living in the Mission gives them a superior, more authentic view of things, let alone lisence to pontificate mindlessly.
Going to the financial district--which the above pious mission dweller above endorses retrospectively--would have made no sense at all. Nobody is in the financial district on a Friday evening--and even if there were, "targeting" a corporate-owned pane of glass is a far cry from challenging the power of capital. We need numbers and strategic intelligence, y'all.
hey i was at the march and i saw absolutly no reponse from the community except fear and awe. Everyone i spoke to was freaked out and had no idea why you guys were there. The pamphlet was way too long and made it almost impossible to figure out what the action was about. Its very frustrating that you refuse to consider any of the overwhlming ammount of critiques of this action, many of which are not hostile. The fact that it took you like 10 paragraphs to explain your strategy might give you a clue as to why most people had no idea why there were 300 anachists running around the mission on friday. I usually dont say things like this but i feel you guys need to grow up and learn to take criticism better. maybe if you could get beyond the defensiveness you might be able to hear some goodsuggestions. Also by pidgeonholing everyone who has offered you criticism as the liberal left who "squash direct action" you are basically saying that you guys won't work with nayone but yourselves which is an awesome way to alienate yourselves. and saying that the march was mainly organized by people of color is for one -not true- i was htere are it was almost all white punk kids and two is using identity politics to justify a badly planned and executed action. thank you for hearing me out
well youve offended some of your leftist comrads with the yellow armbands and orange vests funnelling the crowd to the big plastic donation barrels. if we keep criticising the prison system , how will the cops give us permits to march? better to keep lcking his headwound.....
The communique said that most of the ORGANIZERS were people of color, not most of the people who ATTENDED the event were people of color. How would you tell that most of the organizers were actually "white punk kids" by going to the march? Did you know who the organizers were? Did you know how many there were? The crowd, yes, was mainly white males (although it was more diverse than most anarchist events), but I doubt you truly have any idea about the organizers.
I live in the mission and know many others who fully supported the spirit of this action. It seems like the media focus is primarily on those in the Mission who don't support it. There are many of us who are fully behind direct action, and were not at all unhappy about a little damage to Wells Fargo.
Dear Anarchists,
I appreciate your bringing up of all these questions with your direct action. I'm trying to figure out if I'm with you or against you, as george w. would say...
For those of you who are fighting against the yuppies, you probably know what a yuppie is, but for the rest of us who have not yet taken sides on this sensitive issue: can you please explain "What's a yuppie?"
I have seen the spray paint stencils lately around the mission and I know it's been a sort of term bandied about since the 80s, and I seem to recall a guy called Nestor Mahkno who was trying to liberate the mission from yuppies and suv's in the late 90s and early 00s too.
I guess the classic image in my head i think of is sushi eating zima sipping wall street stockbrokers in the 80s wearing button down brooks brothers shirts and suits and gold framed glasses with well coiffed hair. I guess gavin newsom probably fits that image pretty well.
But if you want to enlist other people, or at least gain some kind of cred in the neighborhood, can you please, just once, throw down some sort of criteria so we can all follow along? Is it your intention to divide people along this particular line of identity, and if so, I'd appreciate it if you would make it clearer.
How do you figure out who a yuppie is? Is there an income bracket? Does it depend on someone's career category? Is it based on economic background and childhood economic context? Is it based on a person's stylistic choices? Is it based on what you do with your time when you're not working? Or is it just something you throw out when you're pissed off at the world and don't like person who's coming down the sidewalk? What I want to know is, is this term based on subjective or objective criteria? If it's just a subjective judgement, then you might as well be fighting the noble struggle against "assholes" or "fuckers" or something like that.
How do you identify a yuppie on the street? Can you visually ID one, or do you have to background research on their sources of income first? Can you please give us some concrete criteria? It would be helpful to get our terms nice and sparkling clear.
If you can't do this, then the struggle against yuppies is of no use to me. "You know one when you see one" is useless to me, that makes you no better than the "minutemen", oh, except you are the "right" side. It's like, how can you tell who's an illegal immigrant? I think a similar principal applies here - does everyone in the mission look the same?
I'll submit myself as a guinea pig:
I have made it through college and now I work in an office and I make quite a bit less than the average plumber or carpenter with a high school diploma. Also, I have no benefits or job security. So though I'm a white collar pencil pusher, I make less than someone who's working class. And I live pretty frugally owing to the fact that money I would like to spend on good organic vegetarian food and wine go instead every month to paying off the loans that I had to take out to get through school.
I like to dress as nice as I can, generally I usually wear a shirt and pants, with the shirt not tucked in at night, but tucked in during the daytime. At work, I wear leather lace up boring looking shoes, and on my own time, I usually wear sneakers. I'm also a young mid-20s white guy.
Honestly, I do want to get laid sometimes, so I try to look a little bit clean cut for the potential chance encounters out there.
It's confusing for me, because some friends of mine who are "working class" will wear stuff that looks pretty much like what people in the marina would wear when they go out on the weekends. While on the other hand, other friends of mine who are pretty much white collar workers, often wear "working class" outfits like carhartt jackets, dickies, overalls, and stuff like that when they go out. It's all very mixed up to me.
I mean, if I had to decide, I'd say anyone who a)lives in SF, b)has a job, c)is not living under rent control from more than 5 yrs. back, and d) is not getting govt. assistance is a yuppie. Families I think are probably the most yuppie of them all.
This is just based on how expensive it is to live here, cause there's no way to live here permanently (short of squatting or couch surfing) unless you are making a certain amount of money - i think the city set the living wage at $11/hr but that was a compromise and realistically you need to make a little more than that. That's probably a little too broad for you guys as a category, so please tighten it up for me if you get a chance.
Because I'm not exactly clear if I'm allowed to join the cause or if I'm going to be targeted by it?
So if you really know what you're talking about, like you say you do, please inform and share the knowledge.
And if it turns out that I am a yuppie, I'd like to know what I can do to change myself so that I can not be a yuppie anymore. If I am ever challenged on the street by a pissed off anarchist, I would like to know how to verify my credentials as a non-yuppie.
Is there some sort of ID card, or maybe a test you can take to see if you're a yuppie?
Or is it like the old medieval days, where you just get tossed in a lake and if you float you're a witch and if you sink you're not a yuppie?
I appreciate your bringing up of all these questions with your direct action. I'm trying to figure out if I'm with you or against you, as george w. would say...
For those of you who are fighting against the yuppies, you probably know what a yuppie is, but for the rest of us who have not yet taken sides on this sensitive issue: can you please explain "What's a yuppie?"
I have seen the spray paint stencils lately around the mission and I know it's been a sort of term bandied about since the 80s, and I seem to recall a guy called Nestor Mahkno who was trying to liberate the mission from yuppies and suv's in the late 90s and early 00s too.
I guess the classic image in my head i think of is sushi eating zima sipping wall street stockbrokers in the 80s wearing button down brooks brothers shirts and suits and gold framed glasses with well coiffed hair. I guess gavin newsom probably fits that image pretty well.
But if you want to enlist other people, or at least gain some kind of cred in the neighborhood, can you please, just once, throw down some sort of criteria so we can all follow along? Is it your intention to divide people along this particular line of identity, and if so, I'd appreciate it if you would make it clearer.
How do you figure out who a yuppie is? Is there an income bracket? Does it depend on someone's career category? Is it based on economic background and childhood economic context? Is it based on a person's stylistic choices? Is it based on what you do with your time when you're not working? Or is it just something you throw out when you're pissed off at the world and don't like person who's coming down the sidewalk? What I want to know is, is this term based on subjective or objective criteria? If it's just a subjective judgement, then you might as well be fighting the noble struggle against "assholes" or "fuckers" or something like that.
How do you identify a yuppie on the street? Can you visually ID one, or do you have to background research on their sources of income first? Can you please give us some concrete criteria? It would be helpful to get our terms nice and sparkling clear.
If you can't do this, then the struggle against yuppies is of no use to me. "You know one when you see one" is useless to me, that makes you no better than the "minutemen", oh, except you are the "right" side. It's like, how can you tell who's an illegal immigrant? I think a similar principal applies here - does everyone in the mission look the same?
I'll submit myself as a guinea pig:
I have made it through college and now I work in an office and I make quite a bit less than the average plumber or carpenter with a high school diploma. Also, I have no benefits or job security. So though I'm a white collar pencil pusher, I make less than someone who's working class. And I live pretty frugally owing to the fact that money I would like to spend on good organic vegetarian food and wine go instead every month to paying off the loans that I had to take out to get through school.
I like to dress as nice as I can, generally I usually wear a shirt and pants, with the shirt not tucked in at night, but tucked in during the daytime. At work, I wear leather lace up boring looking shoes, and on my own time, I usually wear sneakers. I'm also a young mid-20s white guy.
Honestly, I do want to get laid sometimes, so I try to look a little bit clean cut for the potential chance encounters out there.
It's confusing for me, because some friends of mine who are "working class" will wear stuff that looks pretty much like what people in the marina would wear when they go out on the weekends. While on the other hand, other friends of mine who are pretty much white collar workers, often wear "working class" outfits like carhartt jackets, dickies, overalls, and stuff like that when they go out. It's all very mixed up to me.
I mean, if I had to decide, I'd say anyone who a)lives in SF, b)has a job, c)is not living under rent control from more than 5 yrs. back, and d) is not getting govt. assistance is a yuppie. Families I think are probably the most yuppie of them all.
This is just based on how expensive it is to live here, cause there's no way to live here permanently (short of squatting or couch surfing) unless you are making a certain amount of money - i think the city set the living wage at $11/hr but that was a compromise and realistically you need to make a little more than that. That's probably a little too broad for you guys as a category, so please tighten it up for me if you get a chance.
Because I'm not exactly clear if I'm allowed to join the cause or if I'm going to be targeted by it?
So if you really know what you're talking about, like you say you do, please inform and share the knowledge.
And if it turns out that I am a yuppie, I'd like to know what I can do to change myself so that I can not be a yuppie anymore. If I am ever challenged on the street by a pissed off anarchist, I would like to know how to verify my credentials as a non-yuppie.
Is there some sort of ID card, or maybe a test you can take to see if you're a yuppie?
Or is it like the old medieval days, where you just get tossed in a lake and if you float you're a witch and if you sink you're not a yuppie?
i was there. i saw some bystanders who were smiling and seemed excited by the action and some who seemed upset. same as with every demo.
aaron:
>" I keep on hearing people invoke the fact that they live in the Mission as if that fact gives them instant cred."
Like you said, "as if", which is not true at all. So don't presume shit. But your line of arguement is the following lack of reality....
>"The Mission is, last time I checked, a lot more expensive than most of Oakland and a good portion of Berkeley--so be suspicious of those who act like living in the Mission gives them a superior, more authentic view of things, let alone lisence to pontificate mindlessly."
This is not a competitioin to see who is poorer and has more of a right to determine whether or not what goes on in their neighborhood is valid. This two-dimensional competitive analysis has become such bullshit, and it is so sad to see in the year 2005 anarchists still practicing shit from 1886 and 1936.
Take some classes about gentrification and/or the Mission in particular, they got plenty at CCSF and SFSU for everyone. Learn beyond the class issues, please. As a matter of fact, most working-class people in the Mission are very capitalist. And, contrary to the AA communique, the Mission is NOT predominantly Latino (check the census data), not to mention that it comes off like the friday action was trying to save Latinos from capitalism.
>"Nobody is in the financial district on a Friday evening--and even if there were, "targeting" a corporate-owned pane of glass is a far cry from challenging the power of capital. We need numbers and strategic intelligence, y'all."
How did smashing and tagging windows at Skechers and the Shoebiz challenge the "power of capital"? And people certainly WERE in the Mission friday night, many of them who probably called the cops after seeing all the shit getting broken and being lit on fire.
Next time AA-SF thinks Shoebiz is an "agent of gentrification", PLEASE go target the nasty burrito shops that sell coronas and veggie burritos with lots of avocado and hot sauce to hipsters and yuppies (and, ironically, many anarchists). They sell and attract the rich much more than the Shoebiz or Skechers.
ps: I supported the spirit of the action too, just not the tactics used, and certainly do not support the rhetoric in the communique.
>" I keep on hearing people invoke the fact that they live in the Mission as if that fact gives them instant cred."
Like you said, "as if", which is not true at all. So don't presume shit. But your line of arguement is the following lack of reality....
>"The Mission is, last time I checked, a lot more expensive than most of Oakland and a good portion of Berkeley--so be suspicious of those who act like living in the Mission gives them a superior, more authentic view of things, let alone lisence to pontificate mindlessly."
This is not a competitioin to see who is poorer and has more of a right to determine whether or not what goes on in their neighborhood is valid. This two-dimensional competitive analysis has become such bullshit, and it is so sad to see in the year 2005 anarchists still practicing shit from 1886 and 1936.
Take some classes about gentrification and/or the Mission in particular, they got plenty at CCSF and SFSU for everyone. Learn beyond the class issues, please. As a matter of fact, most working-class people in the Mission are very capitalist. And, contrary to the AA communique, the Mission is NOT predominantly Latino (check the census data), not to mention that it comes off like the friday action was trying to save Latinos from capitalism.
>"Nobody is in the financial district on a Friday evening--and even if there were, "targeting" a corporate-owned pane of glass is a far cry from challenging the power of capital. We need numbers and strategic intelligence, y'all."
How did smashing and tagging windows at Skechers and the Shoebiz challenge the "power of capital"? And people certainly WERE in the Mission friday night, many of them who probably called the cops after seeing all the shit getting broken and being lit on fire.
Next time AA-SF thinks Shoebiz is an "agent of gentrification", PLEASE go target the nasty burrito shops that sell coronas and veggie burritos with lots of avocado and hot sauce to hipsters and yuppies (and, ironically, many anarchists). They sell and attract the rich much more than the Shoebiz or Skechers.
ps: I supported the spirit of the action too, just not the tactics used, and certainly do not support the rhetoric in the communique.
I never realized that Shoebiz was an agent of the yuppies. Damn. Is it the same people who ran Subterranean Shoe room a couple of years back, or is it new management? I can't tell the difference between this and the old store.
I certainly don't want to be aiding and abetting the instruments of the yuppies, so shoebiz and skechers are out (i never got shoes there anyway, so no problem). so where should i get shoes?
Foot locker down by 24th is also a corporate chain, so that's out.
I'm done buying used shoes from thrift town - I've been doing that for years and they get really stinky very fast, and also they don't last very long, owing to the fact that they've usually been used by someone else before me. So I'm pretty set on getting a new pair, because I really need some quality shoes that do not fall apart in one month and require another pair to replace them, know what i mean?
So where should I go when I need a new pair of shoes? Seems like the 99 cents stores are out, cause they sell only slave labor shoes, but if I have to go there I will.
Can I go to Erik's - they have a lot of the "working class" kind of clothes, like workclothes. They sell stuff like mostly worker boots, caterpillar, timberland, and whatnot. I think there's a few others just right on mission that also sell worker boots, like "men's fashion" kind of places that have more like sporty playa clothing. Are those shops ok to get shoes from?
I'd really rather get sneakers though. So can any of the anarchists please direct me to where in the mission I should go to get a new pair of sneakers?
thanks!
I agree with the above poster somewhat. Although, I wouldn't be so harsh. I would say that activists (esp. anarchists) need to rethink class and both how it affects our everyday life in our communities and the structural changes that capitalism has taken.
The use of the word autonomy is an interesting dillema that needs to be thought out more, because since the 70's, the rapidisation of capital and the mobility that capitalism has enfourced require this same level of autonomy within the working class as that within the post-left. (ie. autonomism)
However, I do not take a moralistic stance that others have taken versus the destruction of property. I think it is a good tool to use in current class struggles.
Violence was also not a tactic. people. AA did not go out to protest the mission in order to hurt an officer. Circumstances that the officer brought about himself created that situation.
The use of the word autonomy is an interesting dillema that needs to be thought out more, because since the 70's, the rapidisation of capital and the mobility that capitalism has enfourced require this same level of autonomy within the working class as that within the post-left. (ie. autonomism)
However, I do not take a moralistic stance that others have taken versus the destruction of property. I think it is a good tool to use in current class struggles.
Violence was also not a tactic. people. AA did not go out to protest the mission in order to hurt an officer. Circumstances that the officer brought about himself created that situation.
>"I do not take a moralistic stance that others have taken versus the destruction of property"
That is fine. You're entitled to your opinion favoring property destruction based on a class struggle tactical analysis. However, I don't see anyone here taking any such "moral" view regarding the destruction of property. Some of us maybe, JUST MAYBE, actually believe in nonviolence as a way to achieve social change. This means you don't hit a cop over the head knowing that maybe they'll come back around to severly hurt you and those in your community and justify it. Something to think about for those who don't come from communities where violence is inflicted over them time and time again (as it is often express by criticisms that many of the anarchists friday night are from the burbs). If you know your violent actions are going to attract a violent response from entities like the police, don't bullshit yourselves or others. Now there are three people looking at multiple felony counts because of this. Accountability, anyone? I guess not.
Funny how the statement doesn't regard the cop's cracked skull as anything important. As far as the reports go, dude was hit over the head as he walked out of his car. That isn't helping the claims that he "brought about himself" the violent response that he got. Out of touch with reality...?
Ironically (and, maybe comfortably?), the AA statement chooses not to confront acts of violence as anything but some type of natural (maybe animalistic?) response from the working-class peoples' oppression by capitalism. Sad. And every tv report so far is baiting AA and victimizing the police, a direct result of a sad ignorant rhetoric that justifies violence. All this shit has made it more difficult for everyone else to have a protest in SF. Thanks!
Not trying to be mean, but I hope AA and other folks who took part in Friday's action are learning and at least taking in something from the criticism here in IMC.
That is fine. You're entitled to your opinion favoring property destruction based on a class struggle tactical analysis. However, I don't see anyone here taking any such "moral" view regarding the destruction of property. Some of us maybe, JUST MAYBE, actually believe in nonviolence as a way to achieve social change. This means you don't hit a cop over the head knowing that maybe they'll come back around to severly hurt you and those in your community and justify it. Something to think about for those who don't come from communities where violence is inflicted over them time and time again (as it is often express by criticisms that many of the anarchists friday night are from the burbs). If you know your violent actions are going to attract a violent response from entities like the police, don't bullshit yourselves or others. Now there are three people looking at multiple felony counts because of this. Accountability, anyone? I guess not.
Funny how the statement doesn't regard the cop's cracked skull as anything important. As far as the reports go, dude was hit over the head as he walked out of his car. That isn't helping the claims that he "brought about himself" the violent response that he got. Out of touch with reality...?
Ironically (and, maybe comfortably?), the AA statement chooses not to confront acts of violence as anything but some type of natural (maybe animalistic?) response from the working-class peoples' oppression by capitalism. Sad. And every tv report so far is baiting AA and victimizing the police, a direct result of a sad ignorant rhetoric that justifies violence. All this shit has made it more difficult for everyone else to have a protest in SF. Thanks!
Not trying to be mean, but I hope AA and other folks who took part in Friday's action are learning and at least taking in something from the criticism here in IMC.
to the poster above don't you understand what irony and sacasm is?
or to try to unconstructively discourage others, than almost anyone I've seen.
He opposes direct action resistance in Iraq and he opposes direct action resistance in the U.S..
Makes one *wonder* who he is ...
He opposes direct action resistance in Iraq and he opposes direct action resistance in the U.S..
Makes one *wonder* who he is ...
People should keep in mind that Anarchist Action itself did not organize, nor commit any of the illegal acts that happened, but simply organized the protest. If people are angry, keep in mind that it was the protestors who attended who made decisions to take certain actions.
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/07/1752660_comment.php#1752677
(snip)
. . . some are fellow workers. They just get paid more, that's all. But they have bosses, too. Others are bosses. To not distinguish between the two is a mistake.
(snip)
(snip)
. . . some are fellow workers. They just get paid more, that's all. But they have bosses, too. Others are bosses. To not distinguish between the two is a mistake.
(snip)
"All this shit has made it more difficult for everyone else to have a protest in SF. Thanks! "
What march or protest have they (the SFPD) allowed to happen? I've been in way too many of these protests under heavy police repression and aggresiveness, to know that this is a joke. Name one in the past 3 years.
What march or protest have they (the SFPD) allowed to happen? I've been in way too many of these protests under heavy police repression and aggresiveness, to know that this is a joke. Name one in the past 3 years.
People should keep in mind that Anarchist Action itself did not organize, nor commit any of the illegal acts
.:
There's been plenty of spontaneous marches in the Mission over the past three years. They were not broken up by police because they were "peaceful" and had full intention of working with the cops not to disrupt business or traffic, or at least keep it to a minimum. Having a police liaison helps out.
There's a difference between taking the streets to protest or march out of the sense of wanting to empower people and being accountable to the community you're doing it in, and instead taking the streets out of some sense of "class warfare" entitlement that a lot of the Anarchist marches arouond here get severely criticized for. Something else to consider for why SFPD might not be so harsh on other groups.
I'm not gonna look in the archives to provide you "evidence", search yourself.
There's been plenty of spontaneous marches in the Mission over the past three years. They were not broken up by police because they were "peaceful" and had full intention of working with the cops not to disrupt business or traffic, or at least keep it to a minimum. Having a police liaison helps out.
There's a difference between taking the streets to protest or march out of the sense of wanting to empower people and being accountable to the community you're doing it in, and instead taking the streets out of some sense of "class warfare" entitlement that a lot of the Anarchist marches arouond here get severely criticized for. Something else to consider for why SFPD might not be so harsh on other groups.
I'm not gonna look in the archives to provide you "evidence", search yourself.
"People should keep in mind that Anarchist Action itself did not organize, nor commit any of the illegal acts"
That is true. But this excuse is apparently not enough for many people, whether mainstream working-class folk or radical left activists. Just check the thread here alone. Or even on SF-IMC.
I think there is either accountability or responsability lacking claiming that you're not responsible for acts of violence that occur out of the forum you organized when you knew some violence was likely to happen. For anarchists, this is flavorful action theory that can be learned from, but for everybody else in the community it looks pretty bad and even "immature" and out of privilege as others have stated.
By looking at all the posts claiming that AA wasn't responsible, it almost feels like that is the sole tactic of AA at this point--to not take any responsability. In the long-run, maybe it will work. In the short-run, it's not looking good and they're actions (and people who come to them) are opening themselves up to be further targeted by the police.
"Something else to consider for why SFPD might not be so harsh on other groups."
So now you are blaming anarchists for not be allowed to have one march in this city in the past 3 years? Are you next gonna blame the homeless for the harrasement they get from the police?
Listen, all this shit about people in the community getting harrased, I witness. I witness as my friends on the street get hassled and questioned 3-4 times a day about what they are doing. Being constantly watched by the PD. I watch it as it happens, and I call it class war. Call it comething else --thats your perogative.
You wanna talk about Police harrasment, lets talk real facts. You wanna talk about violence, lets talk real facts. And lets start by talking about the SFPD, the OPD, the richmond PD, etc.
I agree that the protest played into the SFPD's trap, and the organizers have failed to counter their PR campaign. This march was extremely weird, seeing the SFPD make so many mistakes. It almost felt like those mistakes were made on purpose. I've seen some pretty crazy shit that the SFPD do in order to contain protests like this.
Isn't it interesting that the problem of overtime in the SFPD is no longer in the news?
So now you are blaming anarchists for not be allowed to have one march in this city in the past 3 years? Are you next gonna blame the homeless for the harrasement they get from the police?
Listen, all this shit about people in the community getting harrased, I witness. I witness as my friends on the street get hassled and questioned 3-4 times a day about what they are doing. Being constantly watched by the PD. I watch it as it happens, and I call it class war. Call it comething else --thats your perogative.
You wanna talk about Police harrasment, lets talk real facts. You wanna talk about violence, lets talk real facts. And lets start by talking about the SFPD, the OPD, the richmond PD, etc.
I agree that the protest played into the SFPD's trap, and the organizers have failed to counter their PR campaign. This march was extremely weird, seeing the SFPD make so many mistakes. It almost felt like those mistakes were made on purpose. I've seen some pretty crazy shit that the SFPD do in order to contain protests like this.
Isn't it interesting that the problem of overtime in the SFPD is no longer in the news?
"So now you are blaming anarchists for not be allowed to have one march in this city in the past 3 years? Are you next gonna blame the homeless for the harrasement they get from the police?"
No. I just think the self-entitled (focus: "entitlement") anarchists who were out friday night should and can do better. I wouldn't believe in the Anarchist community if it wasn't because I know plenty who have their shit together really well and know how to own their privileges and also be allies to marginalized communities. I do think plenty of AA organizers are like this, but the overall attitude about the action has been somewhat disappointing.
No need to speak about the pigs, I'm with you on that. But speaking of homeless people and those who don't have much privilege, I don't think they'd be so willing to hit the streets like many did friday night breaking and setting shit on fire. And that's not because of a lack of political empowerement, but rather a lack of power and privilege in this system. Violence takes a whole different twist when you're under it systematically.
I really wonder what will happen to the three who got arrested and are facing multiple felonies. Kamala Harris (the city D.A.) didn't look too happy on the news last night, she's all about prosecuting them as some type of lesson. It's gonna be hard to get their charges dismissed. These are part of the reasons why many here are criticizing friday's action, because these are the things we'd like to avoid happen when we take the streets. That is the system we're dealing with. Now some innocent people may be in prison because others decided to smash windows and hit a cop. None of us like this, but that is a reality we can't walk away from.
No. I just think the self-entitled (focus: "entitlement") anarchists who were out friday night should and can do better. I wouldn't believe in the Anarchist community if it wasn't because I know plenty who have their shit together really well and know how to own their privileges and also be allies to marginalized communities. I do think plenty of AA organizers are like this, but the overall attitude about the action has been somewhat disappointing.
No need to speak about the pigs, I'm with you on that. But speaking of homeless people and those who don't have much privilege, I don't think they'd be so willing to hit the streets like many did friday night breaking and setting shit on fire. And that's not because of a lack of political empowerement, but rather a lack of power and privilege in this system. Violence takes a whole different twist when you're under it systematically.
I really wonder what will happen to the three who got arrested and are facing multiple felonies. Kamala Harris (the city D.A.) didn't look too happy on the news last night, she's all about prosecuting them as some type of lesson. It's gonna be hard to get their charges dismissed. These are part of the reasons why many here are criticizing friday's action, because these are the things we'd like to avoid happen when we take the streets. That is the system we're dealing with. Now some innocent people may be in prison because others decided to smash windows and hit a cop. None of us like this, but that is a reality we can't walk away from.
we are on the same page there.
>some innocent people may be in prison because others decided to smash windows and hit a cop.
Some innocent people may be in prison because some assholes on the SFPD grabbed the slowest people on the street to use for scapegoats, because they don't have the requisite skills to catch the real perp, if there even was one. It's just as likely that this cop tripped over his own feet as it is he was assaulted.
Some innocent people may be in prison because some assholes on the SFPD grabbed the slowest people on the street to use for scapegoats, because they don't have the requisite skills to catch the real perp, if there even was one. It's just as likely that this cop tripped over his own feet as it is he was assaulted.
1. The DA has dropped charges from high felonies to low felonies on 1 or to misdemeanors on the others on the people they have now. that's because they can't show these people doing anything. We will win probably win these cases. "Burden of proof" is one of the "bourgeois" rights that i like.
2. The cops are fighting with each other-publicly. Always a good thing.
3. They don't have a clue as to who hit the cop, except some of them know in their heart of hearts (i know that saying a lot because some of us consider these people to be heartless), that the person who did it was acting in either self-defense or in defense of others.
4. On "violence": The activities on Friday night were not done (generally) by people who are the most oppressed in our society. They are (generally) being watched to much and would have more to risk if they got caught to do things like this with these few numbers. So a few people one or two levels up (not the sons of daughters of rich folk) who also have problems with society, and are against the war, CAPITALISM, empire, and the G-8 come out and trash certain businesses and do propaganda work i.e. get ideas across in both the major media and on the ground and do so in a fairly non-hierarchical way. What's wrong with that? Would you rahter tehse people not express ther feeling and anger and go to the mall and act all bourgeois.
4. What is a "self entitled (focus "entitlement") anarchist? I reqally don't know,
2. The cops are fighting with each other-publicly. Always a good thing.
3. They don't have a clue as to who hit the cop, except some of them know in their heart of hearts (i know that saying a lot because some of us consider these people to be heartless), that the person who did it was acting in either self-defense or in defense of others.
4. On "violence": The activities on Friday night were not done (generally) by people who are the most oppressed in our society. They are (generally) being watched to much and would have more to risk if they got caught to do things like this with these few numbers. So a few people one or two levels up (not the sons of daughters of rich folk) who also have problems with society, and are against the war, CAPITALISM, empire, and the G-8 come out and trash certain businesses and do propaganda work i.e. get ideas across in both the major media and on the ground and do so in a fairly non-hierarchical way. What's wrong with that? Would you rahter tehse people not express ther feeling and anger and go to the mall and act all bourgeois.
4. What is a "self entitled (focus "entitlement") anarchist? I reqally don't know,
>Would you rahter tehse people not express ther feeling and anger and go to the mall and act all bourgeois
The purpose of political action is to effect change, not to express oneself. If all you want to do is express yourself, learn to oil paint or play the accordion. If you want effect change, you have do it scientifically. The state cannot be cast down by frontal assault. It must be outwitted. We can't even begin to do that until, at the very least, we know more about them than they know about us.
The purpose of political action is to effect change, not to express oneself. If all you want to do is express yourself, learn to oil paint or play the accordion. If you want effect change, you have do it scientifically. The state cannot be cast down by frontal assault. It must be outwitted. We can't even begin to do that until, at the very least, we know more about them than they know about us.
"Some innocent people may be in prison because some assholes on the SFPD grabbed the slowest people on the street to use for scapegoats, because they don't have the requisite skills to catch the real perp, if there even was one."
If you had bothered to read further up the thread, you're realize that the arguement is based on exactly what you just said. The action Friday night created the situation that allowed the SFPD to arrest three people as scapegoats. Hurting a cop, regardless of whether it is justified, didn't help. That is how the system goes. It wasn't created by working-class folk, so don't cry about it as if it was some simple misunderstanding by the cops regarding the friday action/violence.
If you had bothered to read further up the thread, you're realize that the arguement is based on exactly what you just said. The action Friday night created the situation that allowed the SFPD to arrest three people as scapegoats. Hurting a cop, regardless of whether it is justified, didn't help. That is how the system goes. It wasn't created by working-class folk, so don't cry about it as if it was some simple misunderstanding by the cops regarding the friday action/violence.
Eye witness accounts conflict. Cops often lie. So how do we know that's what happened? How do we know he didn't just fall?
deanosor:
on your points. . .
1. Thanks for letting us know about the DA lowering the charges. I still don't think the DA will give up trying to "punish" the three arrested, maybe no prison/jail term, but I doubt they'll be let off entirely.
2. The cops might be fighting with each other publicly, but I tend to favor what Chief Fong has been doing. She's been really cool and trying to determine more of how Friday night could've not ended up so bad, rather than trying to villify the anarchist action. Sadly, because of this, she is now under attack by the conservative elements in SFPD who want AA and anyone who challenges the police to be severely dealt with or punished.
3. We can argue all we want about who hit the cop, or not. But any jury is gonna take the word of cops very seriously. Let's hope no one actually hit the cop, but let's not try to justify the act or promote a "self-defense" idea when we have no facts or witnesses to go on.
4. Violence... I favor nonviolence. We can theorize or argue all we want whether one or the other is better. But coming from a community and experience where police brutality and violence is used to keep poor people and people of color down in a systematic way, I do not favor using violence to fight back because it only feeds the system further. I think Friday night is a clear example. This is a touchy subject for most activists, so key thing is to be accountable and responsible if/when/how you're actually gonna do violent acts or promote them. Not every activist agrees, and that is fine, but be aware that violence affects some communities in ways that are systematically disempowering. Most people I've talked to in the Mission were not cool with just the window smashing and spray painting, and certainly not with attacking a cop. I think for anarchists even "one or two levels up", privilege needs to be recognized deeper when coming to these communities...
5. Or such anarchists are acting more out of their self-entitlement taking to the the streets to fight capitalism and all that nonsense that most people living under systematic oppression (capitalistm/class, racism, police brutality, criminal system, etc.) don't have the privilege to even think about or practice.
"Ooh, it's my right to protest and fight capitalism today, I read all my radical books, so I'll smash a few windows to express this dissent." Sorry, but that is privilege. To many poor folk, that is definitely privilege, if not entertaining. That's what I mean by "self-entitlement."
>"Would you rahter tehse people not express ther feeling and anger and go to the mall and act all bourgeois."
No, not at all. But the fact that you express "the mall" as an alternative to some of the people who were out friday night shows that you know there must be people who can't even go to the mall. Many people in the Mission, if they had the privilege, would much rather be at the mall than a fucking protest (and not because they favor burgois life). That, is being poor. That, is being kept out of power in a system that privileges some and takes it away from others. For the privileged anarchists out there Friday night, I would rather they extend their analyses around systems of oppression (not just capitalism/classism), so then they can be better allies to communities who don't have privilege to go to a protest and smash shit up and eventually get away with it. Or not have it bother them for the rest of their lives. Yes, this means the struggle would be MUCH harder than just smashing shit up and running from the cops until the G8 comes down, but nobody said doing this shit was gonna be easy. I'd rather those anarchists breaking shit on Friday night situate themselves with oppressed communities who don't have the liberty to do what was done Friday night, and I would hope they make that further commitment to the struggle based on that.
on your points. . .
1. Thanks for letting us know about the DA lowering the charges. I still don't think the DA will give up trying to "punish" the three arrested, maybe no prison/jail term, but I doubt they'll be let off entirely.
2. The cops might be fighting with each other publicly, but I tend to favor what Chief Fong has been doing. She's been really cool and trying to determine more of how Friday night could've not ended up so bad, rather than trying to villify the anarchist action. Sadly, because of this, she is now under attack by the conservative elements in SFPD who want AA and anyone who challenges the police to be severely dealt with or punished.
3. We can argue all we want about who hit the cop, or not. But any jury is gonna take the word of cops very seriously. Let's hope no one actually hit the cop, but let's not try to justify the act or promote a "self-defense" idea when we have no facts or witnesses to go on.
4. Violence... I favor nonviolence. We can theorize or argue all we want whether one or the other is better. But coming from a community and experience where police brutality and violence is used to keep poor people and people of color down in a systematic way, I do not favor using violence to fight back because it only feeds the system further. I think Friday night is a clear example. This is a touchy subject for most activists, so key thing is to be accountable and responsible if/when/how you're actually gonna do violent acts or promote them. Not every activist agrees, and that is fine, but be aware that violence affects some communities in ways that are systematically disempowering. Most people I've talked to in the Mission were not cool with just the window smashing and spray painting, and certainly not with attacking a cop. I think for anarchists even "one or two levels up", privilege needs to be recognized deeper when coming to these communities...
5. Or such anarchists are acting more out of their self-entitlement taking to the the streets to fight capitalism and all that nonsense that most people living under systematic oppression (capitalistm/class, racism, police brutality, criminal system, etc.) don't have the privilege to even think about or practice.
"Ooh, it's my right to protest and fight capitalism today, I read all my radical books, so I'll smash a few windows to express this dissent." Sorry, but that is privilege. To many poor folk, that is definitely privilege, if not entertaining. That's what I mean by "self-entitlement."
>"Would you rahter tehse people not express ther feeling and anger and go to the mall and act all bourgeois."
No, not at all. But the fact that you express "the mall" as an alternative to some of the people who were out friday night shows that you know there must be people who can't even go to the mall. Many people in the Mission, if they had the privilege, would much rather be at the mall than a fucking protest (and not because they favor burgois life). That, is being poor. That, is being kept out of power in a system that privileges some and takes it away from others. For the privileged anarchists out there Friday night, I would rather they extend their analyses around systems of oppression (not just capitalism/classism), so then they can be better allies to communities who don't have privilege to go to a protest and smash shit up and eventually get away with it. Or not have it bother them for the rest of their lives. Yes, this means the struggle would be MUCH harder than just smashing shit up and running from the cops until the G8 comes down, but nobody said doing this shit was gonna be easy. I'd rather those anarchists breaking shit on Friday night situate themselves with oppressed communities who don't have the liberty to do what was done Friday night, and I would hope they make that further commitment to the struggle based on that.
" Eye witness accounts conflict. Cops often lie. So how do we know that's what happened? How do we know he didn't just fall?"
We don't know anything for a fact. What we do know is that the SFPD has the power to claim what happened (true or not) and prosecute people for it and get away with it. It's institutional power. What is so difficult in understanding that?
We don't know anything for a fact. What we do know is that the SFPD has the power to claim what happened (true or not) and prosecute people for it and get away with it. It's institutional power. What is so difficult in understanding that?
Statement -"I'd rather those anarchists breaking shit on Friday night situate themselves with oppressed communities who don't have the liberty to do what was done Friday night, and I would hope they make that further commitment to the struggle based on that."
Answered - "This summer, Anarchist Action San Francisco will be involved in multiple organizing projects and multiple actions are planned. MUNI Social Strike will be coordinating with autonomous self-organized transit workers and organizing a fare strike and actions against the MUNI fare increase, service cuts, and layoffs for drivers. On Sep. 16, the racist vigilante Minutemen will be patrolling the California-Mexico border, and a mass action will take place to resist them and the system of borders, governments, and racism that they uphold. On Sep. 24-26, there will be an anarchist march and mass actions against the War and the IMF/World Bank. Check the website for updates!"
speaks for itself.
Answered - "This summer, Anarchist Action San Francisco will be involved in multiple organizing projects and multiple actions are planned. MUNI Social Strike will be coordinating with autonomous self-organized transit workers and organizing a fare strike and actions against the MUNI fare increase, service cuts, and layoffs for drivers. On Sep. 16, the racist vigilante Minutemen will be patrolling the California-Mexico border, and a mass action will take place to resist them and the system of borders, governments, and racism that they uphold. On Sep. 24-26, there will be an anarchist march and mass actions against the War and the IMF/World Bank. Check the website for updates!"
speaks for itself.
What"Friday"!?!
Debtors Rebellion
Abigail Adams, wife of John Adams, was furious with Thomas Jefferson. It was easy for him to write such pretty phrases while away in France. Back home in Massachusetts things were a mess.
The young United States was undergoing its first serious domestic rebellion. In the summer of 1786 the Court General of the state of Massachusetts began to foreclose on the property of indebted farmers in Hampshire County, seizing their cattle and their land. The farmers called on Massachusetts to print more money as Rhode Island had done to relieve their debt, but the state legislature was deaf to their demands. A militia of fifteen hundred armed farmers, many of who were veterans of the Revolutionary War, blocked the courts from meeting and taking away their property; in the town of Great Barrington they broke open the county jail and set free the debtors. Daniel Shays, a former captain in the Continental Army, eventually became known as its leader.
Abigail Adams wrote from London to her friend Thomas Jefferson, who was serving as ambassador to France, and described in dramatic terms the tumults created by the debtors in her native state: "Ignorant, restless desperadoes, without conscience or principles, have led a deluded multitude to follow their standard, under pretense of grievances which have no existence but in their imaginations. " Thomas Jefferson was untroubled by the events and responded, to Abigail Adams's great consternation, in high-minded terms: "The spirit of resistance to government, "Jefferson wrote, "is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive.... I like a little rebellion now and then." Abigail Adams broke off her regular correspondence with Jefferson for several months after that, and the rebellion indeed ended badly for everyone involved. The Massachusetts legislature suspended habeas corpus and allowed indefinite imprisonment without trial to facilitate the suppression of the rebellion. Over the course of the next year the rebel farmers were pursued, many of them arrested, and a dozen executed. Thomas Jefferson's positive view of the rebellion, however, was undiminished by news of the violence. To Colonel Smith, the Adamses' son-in-law, Jefferson wrote, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is a natural manure."
We do not have such a positive view of bloodshed and rebellion under any and all circumstances as Jefferson seems to in these letters. Indeed there is no reason to celebrate Shays's militia of armed farmers as a force for democracy in the young republic. What is more useful, instead, is to recognize the rebellion as a symptom of an economic contradiction immanent to the United States from its beginning. The rebellion, after all, was about debt-debts that the farmers could never hope to repay. The United States, despite all its rhetoric of equality, was a society divided along class lines, and its constitution was designed in many respects to maintain the wealth of the rich. The rebellion of the indebted farmers was a powerful symptom of this contradiction.
This is one instance in which the formation of the global system today is repeating elements of the history of the formation of the United States. One of the contradictions of the global system today is that the poorest countries, including most of sub-Saharan Africa, suffer from the burden of national debts that they can never hope to repay. Debt is one of the factors that keeps the poor poor and the rich in the global system. It is not impossible to imagine that someday soon this contradiction could inspire something like a Shays, Rebellion of debtors on a global scale that would not only horrify the likes of Abigail Adams but also wreak enormous destruction. Perpetual indebtedness in an economic system designed to maintain the divisions of wealth is a perfect recipe for desperate, violent acts. One would be hard pressed to muster any Jeffersonian optimism about such a possibility. The spilled blood of such a conflagration is not likely to nurture the tree of liberty. We would be much better served by searching for other means to address the systematic inequalities and contradictions of our global system before any such violent event arises.
-from Multitude by Hardt & Negri
Abigail Adams, wife of John Adams, was furious with Thomas Jefferson. It was easy for him to write such pretty phrases while away in France. Back home in Massachusetts things were a mess.
The young United States was undergoing its first serious domestic rebellion. In the summer of 1786 the Court General of the state of Massachusetts began to foreclose on the property of indebted farmers in Hampshire County, seizing their cattle and their land. The farmers called on Massachusetts to print more money as Rhode Island had done to relieve their debt, but the state legislature was deaf to their demands. A militia of fifteen hundred armed farmers, many of who were veterans of the Revolutionary War, blocked the courts from meeting and taking away their property; in the town of Great Barrington they broke open the county jail and set free the debtors. Daniel Shays, a former captain in the Continental Army, eventually became known as its leader.
Abigail Adams wrote from London to her friend Thomas Jefferson, who was serving as ambassador to France, and described in dramatic terms the tumults created by the debtors in her native state: "Ignorant, restless desperadoes, without conscience or principles, have led a deluded multitude to follow their standard, under pretense of grievances which have no existence but in their imaginations. " Thomas Jefferson was untroubled by the events and responded, to Abigail Adams's great consternation, in high-minded terms: "The spirit of resistance to government, "Jefferson wrote, "is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive.... I like a little rebellion now and then." Abigail Adams broke off her regular correspondence with Jefferson for several months after that, and the rebellion indeed ended badly for everyone involved. The Massachusetts legislature suspended habeas corpus and allowed indefinite imprisonment without trial to facilitate the suppression of the rebellion. Over the course of the next year the rebel farmers were pursued, many of them arrested, and a dozen executed. Thomas Jefferson's positive view of the rebellion, however, was undiminished by news of the violence. To Colonel Smith, the Adamses' son-in-law, Jefferson wrote, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is a natural manure."
We do not have such a positive view of bloodshed and rebellion under any and all circumstances as Jefferson seems to in these letters. Indeed there is no reason to celebrate Shays's militia of armed farmers as a force for democracy in the young republic. What is more useful, instead, is to recognize the rebellion as a symptom of an economic contradiction immanent to the United States from its beginning. The rebellion, after all, was about debt-debts that the farmers could never hope to repay. The United States, despite all its rhetoric of equality, was a society divided along class lines, and its constitution was designed in many respects to maintain the wealth of the rich. The rebellion of the indebted farmers was a powerful symptom of this contradiction.
This is one instance in which the formation of the global system today is repeating elements of the history of the formation of the United States. One of the contradictions of the global system today is that the poorest countries, including most of sub-Saharan Africa, suffer from the burden of national debts that they can never hope to repay. Debt is one of the factors that keeps the poor poor and the rich in the global system. It is not impossible to imagine that someday soon this contradiction could inspire something like a Shays, Rebellion of debtors on a global scale that would not only horrify the likes of Abigail Adams but also wreak enormous destruction. Perpetual indebtedness in an economic system designed to maintain the divisions of wealth is a perfect recipe for desperate, violent acts. One would be hard pressed to muster any Jeffersonian optimism about such a possibility. The spilled blood of such a conflagration is not likely to nurture the tree of liberty. We would be much better served by searching for other means to address the systematic inequalities and contradictions of our global system before any such violent event arises.
-from Multitude by Hardt & Negri
at a recent santa cruz anarchist conference, Ian Boale had the following definition:
Anarchism:
the theory=anti-intellectualism
the practice=activism
Anarchism:
the theory=anti-intellectualism
the practice=activism
That's onerous calumny.
>>Statement -"I'd rather those anarchists breaking shit on Friday night situate themselves with oppressed communities who don't have the liberty to do what was done Friday night, and I would hope they make that further commitment to the struggle based on that."
>>Answered - "This summer, Anarchist Action San Francisco will be involved in multiple organizing projects and multiple actions are planned. MUNI Social Strike will be coordinating with autonomous self-organized transit workers and organizing a fare strike and actions against the MUNI fare increase, service cuts, and layoffs for drivers. On Sep. 16, the racist vigilante Minutemen will be patrolling the California-Mexico border, and a mass action will take place to resist them and the system of borders, governments, and racism that they uphold. On Sep. 24-26, there will be an anarchist march and mass actions against the War and the IMF/World Bank. Check the website for updates!"
>>speaks for itself.
Let's hope it doesn't speak for another Friday night episode. The statement doesn't mean a thing at this point. Other organizations like ANSWER have made pretentious statements like this, but they don't mean a thing until the actions do happen in a way that truly reflect accountability to the communities they intend to work with.
I honestly just hope people don't keep on getting arrested at AA-sponsored events while AA decides to take no responsability. Honestly, that tactic is beginning to sound more like some cointelpro provocateur kind of shit.
Like others have been stating, what is to be gained by the actions should supersede the costs (i.e., people getting hurt, arrested, having the feds on your asses, etc.).
>>Answered - "This summer, Anarchist Action San Francisco will be involved in multiple organizing projects and multiple actions are planned. MUNI Social Strike will be coordinating with autonomous self-organized transit workers and organizing a fare strike and actions against the MUNI fare increase, service cuts, and layoffs for drivers. On Sep. 16, the racist vigilante Minutemen will be patrolling the California-Mexico border, and a mass action will take place to resist them and the system of borders, governments, and racism that they uphold. On Sep. 24-26, there will be an anarchist march and mass actions against the War and the IMF/World Bank. Check the website for updates!"
>>speaks for itself.
Let's hope it doesn't speak for another Friday night episode. The statement doesn't mean a thing at this point. Other organizations like ANSWER have made pretentious statements like this, but they don't mean a thing until the actions do happen in a way that truly reflect accountability to the communities they intend to work with.
I honestly just hope people don't keep on getting arrested at AA-sponsored events while AA decides to take no responsability. Honestly, that tactic is beginning to sound more like some cointelpro provocateur kind of shit.
Like others have been stating, what is to be gained by the actions should supersede the costs (i.e., people getting hurt, arrested, having the feds on your asses, etc.).
im wont support or critiquing fridays action here.
but i will point out something to all of you who are complaining and up in arms about the "costs" of this or other actions or tactics. so... the big question is WHY is this a fucking SURPRISE to you to begin with? do you expect there to be some "cost-free" golden brick road to revolution?
maybe, just maybe, one of the big problems in the "movement" is that so many of us have filled our hads with liberal pipe-dreams about a path to change which involves only debate and reason, the highest "true" (whatever that means) ideals of the progressive, and in which none of us getting our heads busted, noone getting railroaded, harrassed, killed, visits from the fBI, etc. everything is just hunky dory.
that "revolution", the "revolution" that doesnt contain any of that "bad stuff", is exactly what is going on right now. and it is the revolution of us sitting around, looking at each other, scratching our heads and being practicing a pretentious sophism while nothing changes. it is the revolution of words, in is the revolution in print, read from the comfort of a reclining chair, flashed on a tv screen between commercials. it is futile appeals to enlightenment ideals, it is the best most eloquent, erudite... ranting and raving in the pages of the nation and counterpunch....
and it is silence on the streets, it is people voluntarily stuff themselves into "protest pens" in NYC, it is therapy for SUV driving soccer moms, it is bullshit and one would hope that radical anarchists (the few that are left in this shithead country) would be opposed to it.
but i will point out something to all of you who are complaining and up in arms about the "costs" of this or other actions or tactics. so... the big question is WHY is this a fucking SURPRISE to you to begin with? do you expect there to be some "cost-free" golden brick road to revolution?
maybe, just maybe, one of the big problems in the "movement" is that so many of us have filled our hads with liberal pipe-dreams about a path to change which involves only debate and reason, the highest "true" (whatever that means) ideals of the progressive, and in which none of us getting our heads busted, noone getting railroaded, harrassed, killed, visits from the fBI, etc. everything is just hunky dory.
that "revolution", the "revolution" that doesnt contain any of that "bad stuff", is exactly what is going on right now. and it is the revolution of us sitting around, looking at each other, scratching our heads and being practicing a pretentious sophism while nothing changes. it is the revolution of words, in is the revolution in print, read from the comfort of a reclining chair, flashed on a tv screen between commercials. it is futile appeals to enlightenment ideals, it is the best most eloquent, erudite... ranting and raving in the pages of the nation and counterpunch....
and it is silence on the streets, it is people voluntarily stuff themselves into "protest pens" in NYC, it is therapy for SUV driving soccer moms, it is bullshit and one would hope that radical anarchists (the few that are left in this shithead country) would be opposed to it.
But for that cost, we should gain something. What was gained?
why is it that a large amount of people allways feel they need someone to blame? It is my opinion that because some of the AA organizers descided to make this communique/ explanation (whatever the fuck you might choose to call it) people descide that they (AA folks) must be the ones who broke everything and used violent tactics. To this misconception, one must realize the only thing that AA did was organize the space for people to voice their opinion... the rest was left up to the people. Because they are anarchists, im sure they probably dont beleive in controling a situation such as this one aka: everyone be peaceful so that we can please the whole universe and justify our actions. So, now there is the issue of who were the protesters. Some may be working class some may not.... some may be colored, some may be white, just as some are male, female, queer, straight, educated, or not so much, but the question is why does it matter in the first place??? Is there a test you can take to see if you been opressed enough to rebel? I really dont think theres an anarchist law preventing white middle class people from hating corporations, systems, authority or opression of any sorts and if you have made this law, im sure the anarchists dont give a fuck (i can only speak for one of them, however... and that would be myself). Everyone has a right to hate or love just as they do to smash or construct (hopefully both). SO basically you can heckle the anarchist as much as you want but i think the point of anarchism is that they dont feel they need your permission to voice their oppinions and their main goal is probably not to center their actions around your approval. If you have issues with their tactics, why dont you stop spending your life on indy media critisizing them, and go take actions that you consider apropriate. Also, i dont really care if i have spelling errors, go tell it to your english teacher, not me.
>>I honestly just hope people don't keep on getting arrested at AA-sponsored events while AA decides to take no responsability. Honestly, that tactic is beginning to sound more like some cointelpro provocateur kind of shit.
If you claim to be an involved anarchist, then you know as well as I do that at every single protest, march, RTS, what ever, people are arrested for nothing at all as a measure of intimidation. So, now you're gonna blame AA for every arrest after this?
This is a time to work with folks and get people outta jail for false arrests. I'm sorry I am not down with your pandering tone or attitude. To falsely accuse people of being cointelpro when you probably werent even there or witnessed the events --you got alot of nerve.
If you claim to be an involved anarchist, then you know as well as I do that at every single protest, march, RTS, what ever, people are arrested for nothing at all as a measure of intimidation. So, now you're gonna blame AA for every arrest after this?
This is a time to work with folks and get people outta jail for false arrests. I'm sorry I am not down with your pandering tone or attitude. To falsely accuse people of being cointelpro when you probably werent even there or witnessed the events --you got alot of nerve.
Instead of blabbering so much about how it's not appropriate to criticize AA, why don't you read the whole thread here and the ones at sf-imc first?
Spare us the anonymous angry white kid "what does it matter?" attitude. Please.
No one is blaming AA for the violence on Friday night, but plenty of people have expressed that AA taking no responsability and trying to justify it is very immature. Sure, they're not responsible for the people who got arrested. But they did create the venue in which others were "autonomous" to do stupid things that led to at least three people facing multiple felony charges. Not cool. AA communique, not cool either.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But read the threads first.
jackson >> "If you claim to be an involved anarchist, then you know as well as I do that at every single protest, march, RTS, what ever, people are arrested for nothing at all as a measure of intimidation. So, now you're gonna blame AA for every arrest after this?"
Not true. Therea re no arrests at every march. There are arrests at every stupid march that fucks with the cops, that is different. Blaming AA is not something I care to do, but they could have done a better communiue.
"This is a time to work with folks and get people outta jail for false arrests. I'm sorry I am not down with your pandering tone or attitude. To falsely accuse people of being cointelpro when you probably werent even there or witnessed the events --you got alot of nerve."
I'm not so sure they're such false arrests. Hopefully charges will be lessened to the point of no jail time for anyone. My cointelpro statement is based on AA's tactic to deny any responsability for setting up "autonomous" actions that have led to people being arrested as police retaliation and divisiveness between community and neighborhood folk and other leftists in the city. It is really not that difficult to see how deconstructive Friday's action has turned out to be, especially with the "childish" (as others have said) attitude of this communique. I was not accusing AA of being cointelpro, merely pointing out the parallels of the result of the last action.
Spare us the anonymous angry white kid "what does it matter?" attitude. Please.
No one is blaming AA for the violence on Friday night, but plenty of people have expressed that AA taking no responsability and trying to justify it is very immature. Sure, they're not responsible for the people who got arrested. But they did create the venue in which others were "autonomous" to do stupid things that led to at least three people facing multiple felony charges. Not cool. AA communique, not cool either.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But read the threads first.
jackson >> "If you claim to be an involved anarchist, then you know as well as I do that at every single protest, march, RTS, what ever, people are arrested for nothing at all as a measure of intimidation. So, now you're gonna blame AA for every arrest after this?"
Not true. Therea re no arrests at every march. There are arrests at every stupid march that fucks with the cops, that is different. Blaming AA is not something I care to do, but they could have done a better communiue.
"This is a time to work with folks and get people outta jail for false arrests. I'm sorry I am not down with your pandering tone or attitude. To falsely accuse people of being cointelpro when you probably werent even there or witnessed the events --you got alot of nerve."
I'm not so sure they're such false arrests. Hopefully charges will be lessened to the point of no jail time for anyone. My cointelpro statement is based on AA's tactic to deny any responsability for setting up "autonomous" actions that have led to people being arrested as police retaliation and divisiveness between community and neighborhood folk and other leftists in the city. It is really not that difficult to see how deconstructive Friday's action has turned out to be, especially with the "childish" (as others have said) attitude of this communique. I was not accusing AA of being cointelpro, merely pointing out the parallels of the result of the last action.
>>Instead of blabbering so much about how it's not appropriate to criticize AA, why don't you read the whole thread here and the ones at sf-imc first?
I have, and I've seen you the whole time talking shit. Not taking any others criticisms or rebuttals into consideration.
>>Spare us the anonymous angry white kid "what does it matter?" attitude. Please.
You really are full of yourself, aren't you?
>>No one is blaming AA for the violence on Friday night, but plenty of people have expressed that AA taking no responsability and trying to justify it is very immature. Sure, they're not responsible for the people who got arrested. But they did create the venue in which others were "autonomous" to do stupid things that led to at least three people facing multiple felony charges. Not cool. AA communique, not cool either.
Actually you have on multiple occasions on this thread. People can read what you have said. What's more, is you have pandered every person who does not agree with you. You have not addressed a lot of really good points. And you have taken quotes out of context. Not cool.
>>Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But read the threads first.
see above.
>>Not true. Therea re no arrests at every march. There are arrests at every stupid march that fucks with the cops, that is different. Blaming AA is not something I care to do, but they could have done a better communiue.
actually, I have evidence to the contrary. You care for me to pull out photos and find all the marches, RTS's and Rallys that the SFPD has attacked? I can. Although, it would be a waste of both of ours time.
>>I'm not so sure they're such false arrests.
They are.
>>Hopefully charges will be lessened to the point of no jail time for anyone.
Yeah, let's hope. Even better, lets help them out. There's many constructive ways you can help the legal collective out. see: http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/07/1753148.php
>>My cointelpro statement is based on AA's tactic to deny any responsability for setting up "autonomous" actions that have led to people being arrested as police retaliation and divisiveness between community and neighborhood folk and other leftists in the city. It is really not that difficult to see how deconstructive Friday's action has turned out to be, especially with the "childish" (as others have said) attitude of this communique. I was not accusing AA of being cointelpro, merely pointing out the parallels of the result of the last action.
whatever. first time anything happens that people dont agree with or approve of, people cry cointelpro. I've heard it before, and now I'm hearing it from you. What makes it different now from the other times? Absolutely nothing.
Listen, if you were there and witnessed the events take place, lets talk about them. But, for you to sit around on the computer and criticize something you didn't even witness, while also talking down to everyone who doesn't agree with you is pretty lame.
I have, and I've seen you the whole time talking shit. Not taking any others criticisms or rebuttals into consideration.
>>Spare us the anonymous angry white kid "what does it matter?" attitude. Please.
You really are full of yourself, aren't you?
>>No one is blaming AA for the violence on Friday night, but plenty of people have expressed that AA taking no responsability and trying to justify it is very immature. Sure, they're not responsible for the people who got arrested. But they did create the venue in which others were "autonomous" to do stupid things that led to at least three people facing multiple felony charges. Not cool. AA communique, not cool either.
Actually you have on multiple occasions on this thread. People can read what you have said. What's more, is you have pandered every person who does not agree with you. You have not addressed a lot of really good points. And you have taken quotes out of context. Not cool.
>>Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But read the threads first.
see above.
>>Not true. Therea re no arrests at every march. There are arrests at every stupid march that fucks with the cops, that is different. Blaming AA is not something I care to do, but they could have done a better communiue.
actually, I have evidence to the contrary. You care for me to pull out photos and find all the marches, RTS's and Rallys that the SFPD has attacked? I can. Although, it would be a waste of both of ours time.
>>I'm not so sure they're such false arrests.
They are.
>>Hopefully charges will be lessened to the point of no jail time for anyone.
Yeah, let's hope. Even better, lets help them out. There's many constructive ways you can help the legal collective out. see: http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/07/1753148.php
>>My cointelpro statement is based on AA's tactic to deny any responsability for setting up "autonomous" actions that have led to people being arrested as police retaliation and divisiveness between community and neighborhood folk and other leftists in the city. It is really not that difficult to see how deconstructive Friday's action has turned out to be, especially with the "childish" (as others have said) attitude of this communique. I was not accusing AA of being cointelpro, merely pointing out the parallels of the result of the last action.
whatever. first time anything happens that people dont agree with or approve of, people cry cointelpro. I've heard it before, and now I'm hearing it from you. What makes it different now from the other times? Absolutely nothing.
Listen, if you were there and witnessed the events take place, lets talk about them. But, for you to sit around on the computer and criticize something you didn't even witness, while also talking down to everyone who doesn't agree with you is pretty lame.
okay, without making a comment on any other aspect of this, it seems like some wanted both positive and negative reviews of this. The positive comment I can make would be on the purely strategic level. While protesters often call out "hey, we have to stay together", the way that everyone got so spread out over several blocks worked as an advantage. They shouldn't get so spread out that they are essentially dispersed and have no idea where most other people are, but this is clearly what probably caused the crowd control police to assume that everyone had gotten on the bus and gone home.
jankson,
First off, the reason why I even stay anonymous is because just here on IMC every self-entitled (maybe, full of themselves?) anarchist posting is quicker to dismiss and attack my opinions and those of others who didn't agree to Friday night's action last week. And I can understand being pissed at someone criticizing your political tactical beliefs, but when they do stupid shit in the neighborhoods I live and work in, then I reserve the right to all out let anybody know that. The only difference between me and many others who have expressed criticism against AA is that I am also an organizer and political activist and am not easily swayed by pathetic and irrelevant, outdated anarchist marching and action theories.
Don't like that? Too bad. But let's just say you're lucky this happened in SF, anywhere else you probably wouldn't be on IMC posting after Friday night's action. Take the criticisms online while you still can.
I do take other people's criticisms and rebuttals into account. What I don't take lightly is all-out attacks against me just because it's assumed I am not an anarchist and wasn't there Friday night, therefore I should shut up or don't know anything about the "working class struggle" or something rhetorical or ridiculous like that.
With this attitude that many of y'all are presenting, you're seriusly wasting your time on people like me. Kamala and the SFPD have you all on check at this point, and they are not gonna be nice next time. Not because they like to beat you up at anarchist protests, but because they have managed to bait you all as street violent thugs and now can justify doing it to you. And the juvenile attitude presented as a response is not helping you. And you are now farther from a revolution. It's up to y'all to decide at this point, listen out or keep at the same shit.
Your principles as anarchists taking the streets are fucking great. But seriously take into account at least in your tactics the critiques offered by others. I admit, if I lived in Oakland I probably wouldn't have said a thing, but this hit close to home.
Oh, and god forgive that cointelpro has been brought up. When a group calls for an action that leads to police retaliating by arresting multiple people and charging them with felonies, that is serious. When the group takes no responsability, or instead assigns fault to someone or something else abstract in order to not deal with it, that is a little more reminiscent of an old era of infiltrators. Too harsh? I don't care. But I do care about those who are victims of that arrogance. There just has to be at least a better explanation from AA about the end result of the action they organized.
>>"What makes it different now from the other times? Absolutely nothing."
What other times? Other anarchist marches? Social change isn't only an anarchist march. Try a non-anarchist march one day.
>>"Listen, if you were there and witnessed the events take place, lets talk about them. But, for you to sit around on the computer and criticize something you didn't even witness, while also talking down to everyone who doesn't agree with you is pretty lame."
Like I've said, stupid shit happening in or around where I and my people live and work concerns me, and I have the right to express that. The only things other anarchists have agreed with me had nothing to do with the action, mostly just abstract theory about how the state is fucked up.
Til Victory, Cheers!
First off, the reason why I even stay anonymous is because just here on IMC every self-entitled (maybe, full of themselves?) anarchist posting is quicker to dismiss and attack my opinions and those of others who didn't agree to Friday night's action last week. And I can understand being pissed at someone criticizing your political tactical beliefs, but when they do stupid shit in the neighborhoods I live and work in, then I reserve the right to all out let anybody know that. The only difference between me and many others who have expressed criticism against AA is that I am also an organizer and political activist and am not easily swayed by pathetic and irrelevant, outdated anarchist marching and action theories.
Don't like that? Too bad. But let's just say you're lucky this happened in SF, anywhere else you probably wouldn't be on IMC posting after Friday night's action. Take the criticisms online while you still can.
I do take other people's criticisms and rebuttals into account. What I don't take lightly is all-out attacks against me just because it's assumed I am not an anarchist and wasn't there Friday night, therefore I should shut up or don't know anything about the "working class struggle" or something rhetorical or ridiculous like that.
With this attitude that many of y'all are presenting, you're seriusly wasting your time on people like me. Kamala and the SFPD have you all on check at this point, and they are not gonna be nice next time. Not because they like to beat you up at anarchist protests, but because they have managed to bait you all as street violent thugs and now can justify doing it to you. And the juvenile attitude presented as a response is not helping you. And you are now farther from a revolution. It's up to y'all to decide at this point, listen out or keep at the same shit.
Your principles as anarchists taking the streets are fucking great. But seriously take into account at least in your tactics the critiques offered by others. I admit, if I lived in Oakland I probably wouldn't have said a thing, but this hit close to home.
Oh, and god forgive that cointelpro has been brought up. When a group calls for an action that leads to police retaliating by arresting multiple people and charging them with felonies, that is serious. When the group takes no responsability, or instead assigns fault to someone or something else abstract in order to not deal with it, that is a little more reminiscent of an old era of infiltrators. Too harsh? I don't care. But I do care about those who are victims of that arrogance. There just has to be at least a better explanation from AA about the end result of the action they organized.
>>"What makes it different now from the other times? Absolutely nothing."
What other times? Other anarchist marches? Social change isn't only an anarchist march. Try a non-anarchist march one day.
>>"Listen, if you were there and witnessed the events take place, lets talk about them. But, for you to sit around on the computer and criticize something you didn't even witness, while also talking down to everyone who doesn't agree with you is pretty lame."
Like I've said, stupid shit happening in or around where I and my people live and work concerns me, and I have the right to express that. The only things other anarchists have agreed with me had nothing to do with the action, mostly just abstract theory about how the state is fucked up.
Til Victory, Cheers!
Is that you have failed countlessly to realize that people are on here agreeing with you and you continue to belittle them. While I may agree with alot of what you have said, your pompous intellectual attitude has made me want to argue you.
Sometimes, some people agree with you. But, you're too busy thinking of the next great rebuttal to even notice it and you get into constant pontificating arguments. That, is what my problems are with your arguments.
Please, if you want to work together to create something different or work together to change things let me know. If you just want to mudsling and shit talk, I'll be somewhere else.
Sometimes, some people agree with you. But, you're too busy thinking of the next great rebuttal to even notice it and you get into constant pontificating arguments. That, is what my problems are with your arguments.
Please, if you want to work together to create something different or work together to change things let me know. If you just want to mudsling and shit talk, I'll be somewhere else.
jackson,
I don't think any of this is funny. That is where you and I differ in how we think about this.
But I will listen to your points about how you think I "belittle" others here. That is important to me. Not that it hasn't been reciprocated by everyone who has disagreed, including yourself, with me.
The difference betwen my "pontificating arguements" is that they are concrete about being accountable as organizers. I only reiterate them when I'm thrown some abstract and outdated anarchist theory that is completely out of touch with where I live (hint, hint) and much of reality. That is another place where we differ greatly.
If you're idea of criticizing and wanting to argue with me is to tell me that I should instead work with you to change things, then just say you'd like to work together. Don't call me a "pompous intellectual", I had to look up four word definitions from your posts already because I didn't know what they meant.
I have explained plenty where I'm coming from, my experiences, my commnity and neighborhood, and how they relate to the criticisms of the actions. HAVE YOU? Hmm.
I don't think any of this is funny. That is where you and I differ in how we think about this.
But I will listen to your points about how you think I "belittle" others here. That is important to me. Not that it hasn't been reciprocated by everyone who has disagreed, including yourself, with me.
The difference betwen my "pontificating arguements" is that they are concrete about being accountable as organizers. I only reiterate them when I'm thrown some abstract and outdated anarchist theory that is completely out of touch with where I live (hint, hint) and much of reality. That is another place where we differ greatly.
If you're idea of criticizing and wanting to argue with me is to tell me that I should instead work with you to change things, then just say you'd like to work together. Don't call me a "pompous intellectual", I had to look up four word definitions from your posts already because I didn't know what they meant.
I have explained plenty where I'm coming from, my experiences, my commnity and neighborhood, and how they relate to the criticisms of the actions. HAVE YOU? Hmm.
anonymous,
I have given you props where I have agreed with you as well as others have. I have tried creating a positive dialoque between you and others. Each time you have attacked 1 or 2 things in what everyone has said. Choosing not the good things that people are saying, but choosing everything you disagree with. This to me is pompous. There are 2 sides to a good critique: 1) the negative, and 2) the positive. I have seen alot of the first but none of the second.
To me this conversation is over. You have proved that you cannot have constructive dialogue with anyone here.
I have given you props where I have agreed with you as well as others have. I have tried creating a positive dialoque between you and others. Each time you have attacked 1 or 2 things in what everyone has said. Choosing not the good things that people are saying, but choosing everything you disagree with. This to me is pompous. There are 2 sides to a good critique: 1) the negative, and 2) the positive. I have seen alot of the first but none of the second.
To me this conversation is over. You have proved that you cannot have constructive dialogue with anyone here.
hmm... This dissapoints me I live in santa cruz im 15 i know alot of liberals and I dont mind them im middle class and i me of all unradical beourgoeus consider myself an anarchist. I try not to divide people into groups like revolutionaries yuppies radicals bouergoues pigs/cops and latinos ( if i do labels these people i do it by there countrys or heritage) were all animals and were all trying to survive in a system not rooted in "evil capitalism" or "Fascist Authoritarainism" but just simply in a non sustainable way of life that demands no matter under what social system most people get fucked while some of us live the life of contained material baeuty i see no good in aleinating certain people and having the little intellectual discussion over it that poor working people WILL NEVER HAVE THE PRIVILEDGE OF HAVING. we argue so often alwas wanting to blame the other leftists thoughts for social downfall. Anarchists are to violent, liberals well obvoiusly arnt getting shit done and marxists will never garner the support of the proletariet that they so crave. deconstructionalists just end up alienating themselves from everything around them for some fucked up theory no one understands. So Why do we bother why do we bother with violent protests and fighting cops why do we bother with peaceful protests and beauracratic laws why dont we help poor people learn to read, why dont we give them some of our precouis time, why dont we go outside and just have fun, why dont we fall in love, why dont we fall in love with wilderness, why dont we just relax and sleep under the sun and stars instead of busily rushing around all day (this one goes for us middle class who can afford to do this) Why dont we think of creative ways to stick it to the man in alll of us and enjoy politcal activism. because we still have faith that somehow our modern way of life can exist and when we go home at night we can still watch TV.
jackson:
You or any other anarchist who doesn't know how to relate to a community (the working-class, the mission district, whatever) as an outsider will not get much sympathy from those within it. If this is what ticks you off, maybe it's because you do not have an understanding of that type of organizing. I could care less what you think about my critiques. No one else is having a "dialogue" according to what makes you feel comfortable, so your own idea doesn't even apply in this thread (or hardly any other on IMC, for that matter, so get real).
Want to organize and talk about building a better movement? Do that at the next AA meeting where there is facilitation and no one will be burned alive for disagreeing with a bunch of unaccountable and self-entittled anarchists. That's why I stay anonymous here. That is how IMC is good here. Some juvenile attitude has been presented, so take the critique online while you still can.
You or any other anarchist who doesn't know how to relate to a community (the working-class, the mission district, whatever) as an outsider will not get much sympathy from those within it. If this is what ticks you off, maybe it's because you do not have an understanding of that type of organizing. I could care less what you think about my critiques. No one else is having a "dialogue" according to what makes you feel comfortable, so your own idea doesn't even apply in this thread (or hardly any other on IMC, for that matter, so get real).
Want to organize and talk about building a better movement? Do that at the next AA meeting where there is facilitation and no one will be burned alive for disagreeing with a bunch of unaccountable and self-entittled anarchists. That's why I stay anonymous here. That is how IMC is good here. Some juvenile attitude has been presented, so take the critique online while you still can.
What makes you think we're all outsiders? A lot of us live in the Mission, some on those very streets.
I dont agree with this protest really at all and this group AA has shown typical lefsist bullshit rhetoric and haven't acheived anything by fighting cops but HEy mr anymous now your starting to piss people off in general you have no right to generalize anarchists as a bunch of people who don't understand community maybe you fail to understand what anarchism is and the points of view anarchists have in other words WERE NOT JUST SOME STUPID FUCKED UP SYSTEM LIKE EVERY OTHER ONE THAT PITS PEOPLE AGAINST EACH OTHER INCLUDING COMMUNISM SOCIALISM LIBERLISM DECONSTRUCTIONALISM AND EVERY OTHER FUCKED LEFTIST THOUGHT YOU HAVE. Anarchists don't go for your politic. Anarchist realize that the world cant go on the way it is and sustain itself Anarchists realize that no change in large scale or even small scale government has ever affected this in a sustainable way. anarchists are living for a more primitive view of life where we can live in small sustainable communities or as some view it more primitive nomadic tribes were not about workers revolution or any middle class revolution or uper class domination people have to completely change their culture and lifestyle and thats what anarchism is about living for a earth friendly anti technology DO it yourself lifestyle anarchist like said above want to do action that expands beyond media democracy and usesless peace protests. obvouisly cop fighting isnt gonna help that but i do sympathize with the anti-g8 concerns and many anarchist were there not only to fight cops (who are people like all of us) but to express their support of worldwide dissent against globalization and the way these world powers strip us of our autonomy.
"Anarchists" are not anti-technology. *Some* anarchists are anti-technology. So are some non anarchists. Other anarchists, like most people, are pro-techology.
It is dishonest to portray anti-technology as anarchist. The only things which can truly be called anarchist are those on which all anarchists consense. We do *not* consense on technology, not by a long shot.
And on another not, if you don't like technology, what are you doing on the internet? I mean besides displaying hypocrisy.
It is dishonest to portray anti-technology as anarchist. The only things which can truly be called anarchist are those on which all anarchists consense. We do *not* consense on technology, not by a long shot.
And on another not, if you don't like technology, what are you doing on the internet? I mean besides displaying hypocrisy.
(anarchist) >>"What makes you think we're all outsiders? A lot of us live in the Mission, some on those very streets."
Nothing made me think you (anarchists, i guess) were all outsiders. I didn't even say that, but thanks for taking my comment out of context. Being an "outsider" isn't only a lack of geographical presence. Re-read what I actually said, or if you actually didn't understand, then just ask.
I'm from those very streets in the Mission too, how cool!
Nothing made me think you (anarchists, i guess) were all outsiders. I didn't even say that, but thanks for taking my comment out of context. Being an "outsider" isn't only a lack of geographical presence. Re-read what I actually said, or if you actually didn't understand, then just ask.
I'm from those very streets in the Mission too, how cool!
mothechild:
Apparently by the post after yours, you have generalized anarchists and anarchism yourself. That was quite a rant about what you think anarchism and the anarchist community is. And your bashing of other leftist ideologies was completely unnecessary and deconstructive.
>>"people have to completely change their culture and lifestyle and thats what anarchism is about"
Stalinism, Maoism, or Nazi Germany, anyone? Sorry, but I don't even need to be an anarchist to know we can't be imposing our ideas about culture and lifestyle onto any people. We can promote alternatives, but you better be ready when others don't like them. That is practicing autonomy. Some people might actually like capitalism, but hate the police and the bosses. What then, you won't work with them because they buy Microsoft Windows?
>>"...to express their support of worldwide dissent against globalization and the way these world powers strip us of our autonomy."
Well, that's quite an entitled view. Most people in this country never had any autonomy to begin with, especially Mission folk. But many are fighting to one day achieve autonomy and liberation. That is another way of looking at it that is no less valid.
What would you have done if I said these things at an anarchist meeting or event?
-anonymous
Apparently by the post after yours, you have generalized anarchists and anarchism yourself. That was quite a rant about what you think anarchism and the anarchist community is. And your bashing of other leftist ideologies was completely unnecessary and deconstructive.
>>"people have to completely change their culture and lifestyle and thats what anarchism is about"
Stalinism, Maoism, or Nazi Germany, anyone? Sorry, but I don't even need to be an anarchist to know we can't be imposing our ideas about culture and lifestyle onto any people. We can promote alternatives, but you better be ready when others don't like them. That is practicing autonomy. Some people might actually like capitalism, but hate the police and the bosses. What then, you won't work with them because they buy Microsoft Windows?
>>"...to express their support of worldwide dissent against globalization and the way these world powers strip us of our autonomy."
Well, that's quite an entitled view. Most people in this country never had any autonomy to begin with, especially Mission folk. But many are fighting to one day achieve autonomy and liberation. That is another way of looking at it that is no less valid.
What would you have done if I said these things at an anarchist meeting or event?
-anonymous
<<Some people might actually like capitalism, but hate the police and the bosses. What then, you won't work with them because they buy Microsoft Windows?>>
I pull this quote out because it's typical of mr. anon mission resident--completely self-righteous and utterly inane.
Who are these who "like capitalism" but hate "the bosses"? Are such people particularly susceptible to the charms of Microsoft Windows? What the fuck are you saying and why are you saying it?
Time to take a breather, mr. anon. You're impressing nobody.
I pull this quote out because it's typical of mr. anon mission resident--completely self-righteous and utterly inane.
Who are these who "like capitalism" but hate "the bosses"? Are such people particularly susceptible to the charms of Microsoft Windows? What the fuck are you saying and why are you saying it?
Time to take a breather, mr. anon. You're impressing nobody.
>>"Who are these who "like capitalism" but hate "the bosses"? Are such people particularly susceptible to the charms of Microsoft Windows? What the fuck are you saying and why are you saying it?"
Hey Aaron, do yourself a favor and read up thread a little bit more before you start insulting. Why are you even asking me this? MS Windows was a random example of consumerism dealing with the average Mission resident, so lay off the insults. I was actually replying to a self-righteous anarcho-rant. I don't assume you bothered to read that, unless it was you who wrote it.
I wasn't trying to impress anyone here, believe me. I was calling out self-entitled anarchists and the juvenile attitude of the Friday night action/march. I never intended to be nice because there are several people suffering the consequences of that action. And for that, I'm self-righteous? Haha. Why don't you read the AA communique for some self-righteousness? Scroll up, don't waste your time on me. It's not worth it. I'm sorry that many of you can't take criticism online, but stop the insults.
Hey Aaron, do yourself a favor and read up thread a little bit more before you start insulting. Why are you even asking me this? MS Windows was a random example of consumerism dealing with the average Mission resident, so lay off the insults. I was actually replying to a self-righteous anarcho-rant. I don't assume you bothered to read that, unless it was you who wrote it.
I wasn't trying to impress anyone here, believe me. I was calling out self-entitled anarchists and the juvenile attitude of the Friday night action/march. I never intended to be nice because there are several people suffering the consequences of that action. And for that, I'm self-righteous? Haha. Why don't you read the AA communique for some self-righteousness? Scroll up, don't waste your time on me. It's not worth it. I'm sorry that many of you can't take criticism online, but stop the insults.
"MS Windows was a random example of consumerism dealing with the average Mission resident"
So your saying that the working-class Mission residents who happen to have 2nd hand computers running old versions of WIndows are more consumeristic than the left- talking yuppie computer programmers who buy hyped up computers and have the time to learn about Linux or the media activists with good paying jobs that allow them to use Macs? Microsoft is evil but I dont think its good to look down on those using Windows because it basically a typical upper class form of snobery where priveldge allows you to buy your way (through education or free time) out of having to use things produced by peopel you hate. The same goes for peopel who shop at WallMart or eat fast food.
So your saying that the working-class Mission residents who happen to have 2nd hand computers running old versions of WIndows are more consumeristic than the left- talking yuppie computer programmers who buy hyped up computers and have the time to learn about Linux or the media activists with good paying jobs that allow them to use Macs? Microsoft is evil but I dont think its good to look down on those using Windows because it basically a typical upper class form of snobery where priveldge allows you to buy your way (through education or free time) out of having to use things produced by peopel you hate. The same goes for peopel who shop at WallMart or eat fast food.
<<MS Windows was a random example of consumerism dealing with the average Mission resident, so lay off the insults.>>
Here's the deal mr-i-still-live-in-the-mission-and-think-it-gives-me-license-to-say-stupid-shit-without-having-to-back-it-up, you stop being such an inane and repetitive dipshit, and I'll stop insulting you.
'Kay?
Here's the deal mr-i-still-live-in-the-mission-and-think-it-gives-me-license-to-say-stupid-shit-without-having-to-back-it-up, you stop being such an inane and repetitive dipshit, and I'll stop insulting you.
'Kay?
Don't worry (anon), Anarchist Action will continue to develop ties to the community like they have in the past 6 months. And guess what, they are learning from it, and getting more effective at it. Even more, they will learn from their ideological misgivings and promote a radical and inherently anti-authoritarian network. If it's not them, it will be an offshoot from this group. This is just the beginning and should be viewed as a learning experience for them. Whether or not you agree with them or their tactics, it will continue to grow.
What you view as juvenile, is actually something alot more profound. So take your misgivings and talk to the ANSWER organizers or the UFCW about responsibility and accountability. They could give 2 shits about what you say about them.
What you view as juvenile, is actually something alot more profound. So take your misgivings and talk to the ANSWER organizers or the UFCW about responsibility and accountability. They could give 2 shits about what you say about them.
Anarchist Action will continue to develop ties to the community like they have in the past 6 months. And guess what, they are learning from it, and getting more effective at it. Even more, they will learn from their ideological misgivings and promote a radical and inherently anti-authoritarian network. And smash All resistance. we are recruting and we will take to the streets again we are planning and learning more about protest tactics thank's to nessie for all those civil defense books on police tactics and crowd control.
next time fortune may favor the informed
next time fortune may favor the informed
um . . . k
>>"So your saying that the working-class Mission residents who happen to have 2nd hand computers running old versions of WIndows are more consumeristic than the left- talking yuppie computer programmers who buy hyped up computers and have the time to learn about Linux or the media activists with good paying jobs that allow them to use Macs?"
No, you are saying that. How is buying Windows more consumeristic than "left- talking yuppie computer programmers" buying Macs (and probably DVD burners, and USB flash cards, iPods, etc.)?
>>"Microsoft is evil but I dont think its good to look down on those using Windows because it basically a typical upper class form of snobery where priveldge allows you to buy your way (through education or free time) out of having to use things produced by peopel you hate. The same goes for peopel who shop at WallMart or eat fast food."
I agree, we shouldn't look down at anyone using Microsoft who has to have it because they are working-class and limited to only mainstream software like Windows. That is exactly my point in this thread when I speak about privilege.
Being "consumeristic" is not a term I use to think about people in some inferior way. It's a complex reality for many working-class people in this country. I think people can do stupid shit, but I don't think they are inferior for it. That would be supremacist.
No, you are saying that. How is buying Windows more consumeristic than "left- talking yuppie computer programmers" buying Macs (and probably DVD burners, and USB flash cards, iPods, etc.)?
>>"Microsoft is evil but I dont think its good to look down on those using Windows because it basically a typical upper class form of snobery where priveldge allows you to buy your way (through education or free time) out of having to use things produced by peopel you hate. The same goes for peopel who shop at WallMart or eat fast food."
I agree, we shouldn't look down at anyone using Microsoft who has to have it because they are working-class and limited to only mainstream software like Windows. That is exactly my point in this thread when I speak about privilege.
Being "consumeristic" is not a term I use to think about people in some inferior way. It's a complex reality for many working-class people in this country. I think people can do stupid shit, but I don't think they are inferior for it. That would be supremacist.
aaron,
>>"Here's the deal mr-i-still-live-in-the-mission-and-think-it-gives-me-license-to-say-stupid-shit-without-having-to-back-it-up, you stop being such an inane and repetitive dipshit, and I'll stop insulting you.
'Kay?"
You don't what I say because it will not satisfy your ego. That is much different. I talked about where I'm coming from to relate my concerns and critiques about the AA-led action. It wasn't to assign myself authority over the matter (not that anyone attacking me would succumb to it). That is a perspective you and many others attacking me apparently do not know how to grasp and would rather attack me for. (George Bush, War in Iraq, anyone?) Even though this perspective is intertwined with self-determination and autonomy, key elements to anarchism.
Sorry I hurt your feelings. I won't repeat that again. Take care.
>>"Here's the deal mr-i-still-live-in-the-mission-and-think-it-gives-me-license-to-say-stupid-shit-without-having-to-back-it-up, you stop being such an inane and repetitive dipshit, and I'll stop insulting you.
'Kay?"
You don't what I say because it will not satisfy your ego. That is much different. I talked about where I'm coming from to relate my concerns and critiques about the AA-led action. It wasn't to assign myself authority over the matter (not that anyone attacking me would succumb to it). That is a perspective you and many others attacking me apparently do not know how to grasp and would rather attack me for. (George Bush, War in Iraq, anyone?) Even though this perspective is intertwined with self-determination and autonomy, key elements to anarchism.
Sorry I hurt your feelings. I won't repeat that again. Take care.
hey 'anon',
Did insulting me satisfy your ego as well? Did telling me to go to ANSWER and UFCW make you feel better than those two organizations? ANSWER, in particular, has been called out a lot and is trying to be more accountable (especially because of the other anti-war coalitions doing more accountable organizing). This doesn't disable the rest of us from calling out AA. The only thing juvenile is your attitude where you put down one org to place yourself over it. Way to go, capitalist!
>>"And smash All resistance."
Wow. Including people like me critiquing AA? I guess this is my warning from the anarchist vanguard, the sfpd, or cointelpro.
Did insulting me satisfy your ego as well? Did telling me to go to ANSWER and UFCW make you feel better than those two organizations? ANSWER, in particular, has been called out a lot and is trying to be more accountable (especially because of the other anti-war coalitions doing more accountable organizing). This doesn't disable the rest of us from calling out AA. The only thing juvenile is your attitude where you put down one org to place yourself over it. Way to go, capitalist!
>>"And smash All resistance."
Wow. Including people like me critiquing AA? I guess this is my warning from the anarchist vanguard, the sfpd, or cointelpro.
"Militant resistance is portrayed as criminal, mass rebellion transformed into mob action, courageous choices derided as self-serving, moderately outrageous comments in the heat of the moment seized upon and repeated ad naseum as if they were the whole story or true. Fine leaders are degraded and their contributions dismissed due to personal limitations and all-too-real flaws. This is the organized, contemporary, and legal companion to the illegal, secret Counter-Intelligence Program ("COINTELPRO") of the FBI which used disinformation, harassment, and "dirty tricks" against the predominately white movement while using assassination, infiltration and imprisonment against people of color. This demonization of activists was the pretext for physical assassination and character assassination. It finds us still with scores of political prisoners unjustly incarcerated from that time. The Sixties was, in short, neither that good nor that bad."
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/dohrn270705.html
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/dohrn270705.html
That's ridiculous. You can buy a used iMac, loaded, for three hundred bucks.
Hi Jackson,
you said "If you claim to be an involved anarchist, then you know as well as I do that at every single protest, march, RTS, what ever, people are arrested for nothing at all as a measure of intimidation."
Do the protest participants who actually perform the counterproductive and criminal acts, also make a point to step forward to authorities to take responsibility, instead of letting an innocent participant(s) get arrested for it? Granted, that would take courage.
you said "If you claim to be an involved anarchist, then you know as well as I do that at every single protest, march, RTS, what ever, people are arrested for nothing at all as a measure of intimidation."
Do the protest participants who actually perform the counterproductive and criminal acts, also make a point to step forward to authorities to take responsibility, instead of letting an innocent participant(s) get arrested for it? Granted, that would take courage.
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