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Indybay Feature
July 4th is Flag Burning Day
by FBD
Friday Jun 24th, 2005 5:24 PM
For the fifth time politicians have succeeded in pushing an amendment to outlaw burning the United States flag through the House of Representatives. This time they have the best chance of using the conservative control of capital hill to ratify it.
For the fifth time politicians have succeeded in pushing an amendment to outlaw burning the United States flag through the House of Representatives. This time they have the best chance of using the conservative control of capital hill to ratify it. Those who wish to see a ban on flag burning long for the United States to amend its Constitution to resemble nations like China, North Korea, Iraq, Iran and Cuba. The idol worship is not the real danger in the flag-burning ban; this law is an attack to the core of the freedom of expression. For years there hasn’t been the inertia to restrict our rights through what is still a very unpopular move, but now that the “conservatives” are securing all three branches of the government and then some they may me able to do this.

We won’t get a vote on this, it has come time to stand up, with our families and neighbors and fight for the first amendment. This July 4th is Flag Burning day, true independence will shine in streets across the country, when people from all over exercise their constitutionally protected rights.

For more information check out:
The website:
http://www.flagburningday.org

or the mailing list
http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/flagburningday

by BBQ Time!
Saturday Jun 25th, 2005 12:49 PM
On your right and duty to burn the flag:
http://www.flagburning.org/
by uhh
Saturday Jun 25th, 2005 12:52 PM
You are idiots.

If you hate america, leave.
by to uhh--you're the idiot
Saturday Jun 25th, 2005 3:47 PM
As evidnced by your comments, or lack thereof. If you love this country so much, then you would love the spirit of the principles that created this country---revolution, criticism of the status quo, questioning power and freedom of speech.
The "love it or leave it" arguement is simplistic, and used frequently in a jingoistic, rabid fashion by right-wing, brainwashed folks who are unwilling/unable to engage in meaningful debate. Prove me wrong and we'll have a dialogue.
by How to win the War in Iraq
Saturday Jun 25th, 2005 5:03 PM
The Viet Minh defeated the Americans and the French back to back. The French military fled to Algeria and were defeated yet again by the 400,000 impoverished Muslims in the Kasbah. They planted bombs in French settler cafes in Algiers, killing civilians, men, defenseless women and children (1). That's really two direct victories and a kind of indirect one, 2 1/2 altogether. Actually 3 1/2: the North beat the South in the civil war. It seems to me that the French use of torture in Algeria caused outrage which contributed to the peace movement in France which helped end the occupation, unlike in the US where it has had little effect. Sad.

In the early 70s our enlisted men circulated contracts for killing officers and NCOs, bounties ranging from $100 to $10,000. They murdered about 200 according to IndyBay.org's "Faultline." Not a single enlisted man was charged or tried. Perhaps the brass had been concerned that trials would have only increased them. Perhaps they understood the embarrassment and shame trials would have had in the US? The intimidation and fear may have been enough to pressure the Pentagon to declare an end. About 200,000 soldiers on the ground in Vietnam had to be disarmed in order to ensure the officers' safety. The enlisted men firebombed the admiral's quarters of the USS Forestall in San Diego and threw a wrench into the reduction gear of the USS Constellation in Alameda, both causing serious, costly damage and delay.

The officers rightfully feared for their lives. How can you lead with angry assassins at your back? Does it not seem to be the most efficient way to end a war since officers are such a tiny minority who merely direct killings with impunity? Could killing only 200 be objectionable in light of the senseless 57,000 American deaths? How many more innocent lives were saved by these statistically insignificant 200 assassinations? Perhaps the enlisted men came to value the lives of the Vietnamese more than a tiny group of professional sociopaths and psychopaths?

Could we say that the anti-war effort and unpopularity at home caused some discouragement and anger for troops who then turned on their leaders? That these developments were related? Or independent events occurring in parallel due to collective exhaustion and despair?


(1) Isn't this what the Palestinians have done to the Israelis in the Second Intifada? Could this explain the Israeli "peace" movement - cold white fear for their lives, faceless murderers attacking them anywhere, anytime, and not some sudden humanitarian insight?
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