AIPAC PROTEST Dec 13th --No Funding Occupation!

Hope to see you there Tom!

Ms Hancock's job is in the California State Assembly. Israeli politics are none of her concern. She was elected to represent the people in her district in the Assembly. As much as you would like to make the Palis the center of the world, they are not.

Reply to Tim regarding Loni Hancock.

I agree with you, Loni's job is to make sure critical projects are funded in California, particularly in her district. You will have to ask Ms. Hancock why she is attending a dinner that promotes funding for a foreign military in the midst of a brutal occupation.

We love seeing you guys out front. It provides motivation for donors in a way that a power point presentation can't even begin to do.

Thanks again for all your hard work.

Here's 2002 CA contributions from American Israel Public Affairs Commitee;

(first # year 2002, second # career total)



California S Boxer, Barbara D I 2,000 150,794 C, FR(NE)
S Davis, Gray D N 5,000 5,250
S Feinstein, Dianne D I 1,000 113,842 A(D), I
H 8 Pelosi, Nancy D I 14,000 36,800 A(FO), I
H 10 Tauscher, Ellen D I 2,500 12,000 AS
H 12 Lantos, Tom D I 7,000 75,650 IR
H 15 Honda, Michael D I 1,000 9,000 B
H 18 Cardoza, Dennis D C 16,000 16,000
H 23 Capps, Lois D I 3,500 15,917
H 24 Gallegly, Elton R I 1,000 42,250 IR
H 26 Dreier, David R I 1,500 6,750
H 27 Sherman, Brad D I 6,050 38,830 IR(NE)
H 28 Berman, Howard D I 4,600 60,050 IR(NE)
H 29 Schiff, Adam D I 5,500 16,917 IR(NE)
H 32 Murray, Kevin D C 3,000 3,000
H 32 Solis, Hilda D I 300 2,300
H 33 Watson, Diane D I 5,500 5,500 IR
H 34 Roybal-Allard, Lucille D I 250 7,000 A
H 36 Harman, Jane D I 17,700 74,771 I
H 37 Millender-McDonald, Juanita D I 1,000 1,000
H 38 Napolitano, Grace D I 1,000 3,750 IR
H 39 Sanchez, Linda D C 4,000 4,000
H 45 Bono, Mary R I 2,500 2,500
H 45 Kurpiewski, Elle D C 1,000 1,000
H 46 Schipske, Gerrie D C 1,500 1,500
H 47 Sanchez, Loretta D I 10,552 34,700 AS
H 51 Filner, Bob D I 9,000 79,514
H 51 Garcia, Maria Guadalupe R C 200 200
H 53 Davis, Susan D I 0 6,663

Here's 2002 CA Pro Arab contributions;

California H 9 Lee, Barbara D I 1,000 3,500 IR
H 49 Issa, Darrell R I 1,500 6,500 IR(ME)

For a complete list of all US states, see linx below;

there might be something to that.

maybe it's time for the arab/am community to start investing in a little govt representation of its own.

makes ya wonder just what the saudis get for their zillions...

" makes ya wonder just what the saudis get for their zillions.."


90% of the mosques in the USA are Wahabi, funded by the Saudis Most of the "middle east studies" at various universities are also funded by the Saudis (That's why they're anti-American and anti-Israeli)...the Arabs have a huge lobby in the USA...too bad they haven't stood up and tried to distance themselves from the Murderers of Islam.

The following was deleted today from the newswire and has been re-posted. I do not know if the deletion was an accident or not, but just in case we have a pro-Israel censor, I would like everyone here to see what was posted. I did not know about this article when posting mine, and believe mine adds a little more information. Considering I do not feel very well and went to some effort to write this article because I feel it is "words that must somehow be said," to quote a writer and activist, Kay Boyle, this article is as stated below:

On December 13, 2004, the pro-Israel AIPAC will be fundraising in San Francisco and Oakland, with lots of Democratic Party politicians invited to participate. Please protest this genocidal front for US imperialism by telling all the Democrats & Republicans in your phone book to stop supporting Israel, and they all do by definition. Also, attend the demonstrations.

Israel is a US military base that exists to protect the oil companies' profits in the Middle East. The US Government is using the Jewish community, aided by the richer and reactionary sector of the religious Jewish community, as a front for this anti-labor hellhole, built on the genocide of the Palestinians and the theft of Palestinian land, just as horrific as the genocide of the Native Americans and the theft of Native American land by the European settlers and their American lackeys. The major difference is that the Palestinian community is definitely part of the modern world and not a stone age culture, although in either case, there was and is no excuse for genocide, theft of the land, and destruction of homes and crops.

From the website of the Middle East Children's Alliance at
http://www.mecaforpeace.org/CommunityActivism.html

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) is coming to the San Francisco and Oakland on Monday Dec 13 to promote its agenda to local governement leaders and Bay Area organizations. AIPAC is a powerful political lobby that pushes for continued US congressional funding of the Israeli military and settlement activities while promoting Israel's foreign policies in the US governent. AIPAC is also currently under investigation by the FBI for their role in an espionage case.

The United States currently supplies Israel with $5 billion in direct aid every year most of which goes to funding the illegal occupation of Palestinian territory and the attendant policies of that occupation, including home demolitions, attacks on civilains, the destruction of vital farmland and the overall confiscation of Palestinian land and resources. AIPAC's lobbying has helped finance the Israeli army which, has in four years, closed, occupied, destroyed or damaged over 1000 Palestinian schools.

Monday, December 13, 2004, 11:30 a.m. at Moscone Center South, Fourth and Howard, San Francisco.

Monday, December 13th - 5:30-7:30pm - Marriott Hotel,
1001 Broadway, Oakland.

The leaflet in PDF format is at:
http://www.tomjoad.org/aipacprotest2004.pdf

Sponsored by

Middle East Children’s Alliance
http://www.mecaforpeace.org
International Solidarity Movement Northern California
http://www.norcalism.org
Justice in Palestine Coalition
http://www.justiceinpalestine.net
Jewish Voice for Peace
http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org
United for Peace and Justice, Bay Area http://www.unitedforpeace.org

All Democratic and Republicans officials by definition support Israel, from Rep Barbara Lee to Rep Nancy Pelosi to San Francisco Supervisor Tom Ammiano to Tom Hayden (former California state representative) and Jane Fonda. Barbara Lee joined the whole stinking Congress in voting for a resolution praising the butcher of Palestine, Ariel Sharon.

For more on San Francisco's representative, Nancy Pelosi, see:
http://www.tomjoad.org/Pelosi.htm

>>>"Please protest this genocidal front [AIPAC] for US imperialism"<<<

AIPAC is a pro-Israel lobby, a special interest group that lobbies the US Congress on behalf of Israeli interests. On quite a few occasions Israeli and US interests are at odds. Your description of AIPAC is beyond and above ludicrous.

>>>"Israel is a US military base that exists to protect the oil companies' profits in the Middle East."<<<

That's all you know about Israel? Did you ever live there? I know about it much more from personal experience.

>>>"The US Government is... aided by the richer and reactionary sector of the religious Jewish community,"<<<

I see an anti-Semitic stereotype being applied here. You're proud of your racism?

>>>"[Israel is an] anti-labor hellhole"<<<

Not quite. Workers in Israel are, beyond average, better off than in any Third World state, including the Arab ones. Workers in Israel are mostly organized in ferocious unions and enjoy their protection.

>>>"[Israel is] built on the genocide of the Palestinians and the theft of Palestinian land, just as horrific as the genocide of the Native Americans and the theft of Native American land by the European settlers and their American lackeys."<<<

Horseshit. You've fallen prey to the communist propaganda you've been inundated with concerning this topic. You don't even seem to know what constititues genocide and land theft.

>>>"The major difference is that the Palestinian community is definitely part of the modern world and not a stone age culture,"<<<

There is more than one school of thought on that.

>>>"AIPAC is also currently under investigation by the FBI for their role in an espionage case."<<<

No, it's an *alleged* espionage case, and most likely a false charge.

>>>"The United States currently supplies Israel with $5 billion in direct aid every year"<<<

Wrong. The correct figure is about $3 billion every year (excluding loan guarantees and the like that aren't provided annually). For example, "Both the Senate and House approved the administration's requests of $2.6 billion for military and economic aid to Israel and $1.8 billion for Egypt, slightly lower than current levels." (http://usembassy-australia.state.gov/hyper/2004/1022/epf510.htm)
The anti-Israel sources can't seem to agree on one uniform version, be it $5 billion or $3 billion or whatever.

>>>"[$5 billion in direct aid every year,] most of which goes to funding the illegal occupation of Palestinian territory and the attendant policies of that occupation, including home demolitions, attacks on civilains, the destruction of vital farmland and the overall confiscation of Palestinian land and resources."<<<

Leaving your misconception about the "illegal occupation" aside, you're simply wrong about some of parts of your argument. Whether more than 50% of the $3 billion provided to Israel is spent on intifada related issues or not, the rare incidents of attack on non-combatants are NOT a matter of policy. And there's no destruction of farmland and land confiscation as ends for themselves.

>>>"AIPAC's lobbying has helped finance the Israeli army which, has in four years, closed, occupied, destroyed or damaged over 1000 Palestinian schools."<<<

If schools were destroyed or closed, the blame rests on those Palestinians who had made those schools terror bases or otherwise had altered their educational function for some pernicious purpose.


Here's hoping also your repost will get deleted from this thread along with my retort.

Nothing has been deleted. It is possible that comments or posts that are seen as inflammatory, etc. could be hidden. Another thing you should know is that the newswire only shows something like 10 posts at a time on the front page. If you double click on where it says Local News on the front page, you will see a searchable list of all local newswire articles. So in writing a story for the Anti-War page's center column, I found a bunch of different AIPAC posts from the last several days, and it was actually hard to figure out which ones to link to and which to not link to. Some of the posts had useful comments, but I can only link to so many posts that have the same content before the readers will get too bored to scroll down to the comments. Just some feedback.

It's interesting to note that the BILLIONS of dollars given by the US to Arab countries doesn't seem to attract nearly as much attention around here.

What do Americans get for their investment in Israel? A strong ally, tremendous medical, scientific and military research and friendship.

What do they get from the Arabs?
See also: 9/11.

And yet I don't hear you complaining about that for some reason...

>>>"It's interesting to note that the BILLIONS of dollars given by the US to Arab countries doesn't seem to attract nearly as much attention around here. "<<<

The sum of funds given in foreign aid by the US to Arab states and political entities, like the PA, exceeds the sum given to Israel, but hypocrisy abounds, since most pro-Palestinians don't care about human rights in Arab controlled territories remotely as much as in they do where Israel is a factor.

the fact that israel's chief benefactor props up (many other) despotic regimes throughout the middle east should be cause for reflection among israel's 24-hour-a-day fan club.

"hey, maybe the american ruling class doesn't give a shit about human rights at all. maybe democracy and freedom are just cynical slogans. what does this say about america's support for israel? hmmm..."

unfortunately, intellectual honesty isn't the israelphiles cup 'o tea. blind allegiance to the "Jewish state"--and the need to rationalize its deeds--trumps all other considerations.

>>>""hey, maybe the american ruling class doesn't give a shit about human rights at all. maybe democracy and freedom are just cynical slogans. what does this say about america's support for israel? hmmm..." "<<<

Israel's human rights violations pale in comparison to those *genuinely* despotic regimes'. What's more, Israel is even attempting through Sharon's evacuation plan to decrease its "despotism" (Israel's control over Palestinians' life e.g. closures, curfews, roadblocks is for defensive purposes, to Israel critics' chagrin.). So when viewed from this particular prism, we can't conclude what aaron would like us to.

C(re)T(in):

What is the US interest in the Middle East?

Why does the US aid so many despotic regimes in the middle east and throughout the world?

Would you rather live in Gaza or Tunisia?

big ideological words indicating at least the potential for an antisemitic blossoming on your part.

spose we'll have to keep an eye on where you go with it, huh?

>>>"What is the US interest in the Middle East?"<<<

You're the apparent self appointed intellectual who seems to intimate he already knows the answers, so let me in on what you know.

>>>"Why does the US aid so many despotic regimes in the middle east and throughout the world? "<<<

It's easier to establish the causes for the Midldes East: it's a combination of the need to secure Saudi oil for American consumption or guzzling at the cheapest rates possible and the fact that Foggy Bottom led by your Arabist friends (and don't even start squaking racism now) prefer what they deem stability over a mass restructuring of Arab states into democracies (call this concept "'American pupput regimes if it suits you).

>>>"Would you rather live in Gaza or Tunisia? "<<<

This question goes to show what a projection artist you are when you attribute me doltishness.
You even know where I'm living, O clueless? Would you rather live in Karmiel or Kiryat Yam?

<<big ideological words indicating at least the potential for an antisemitic blossoming on your part.>>

If you were sincerely concerned about antisemitism you woudn't joke about it.

If you were interested in hurling that epithet at actual anti-Jewish bigots, you'd start examining some of Israel's most zealous supporters, such as Billy Graham and, more so, Pat Robertson and his ilk and their brilliant--and strictly unideological--sheep that they herd about with tales of armegeddon. These scum-bags love Israel, but don't seem to care a whole hell of a lot about real life Jews.

And we shouldn't forget Richard Nixon, a notorious antisemite who supported the Israeli state with gusto when president.

To C(re)T(in):

Sounds like you have a rather conspiratorial view of America's vaunted democracy. Ha!

If you think I'm in accord with the alleged "Arabists" in the CIA, you're even dumber than I thought. (BTW, what makes someone who supports dictators in the Arab world an "Arabist"? Explain that one to me.)

If you think an authentically participatory and democratic form of governance in the Arab/Muslim world would bode well for your favorite theocracy and its imperial benefactor, well, you're retarded.

Time for you, C(re)T(in), to stop taking neo-conservative pronouncements at face value. They're not intended to be taken that way.

Before I sign off, let me denounce myself as ideologically-beholden so my anonymous zionist adversary--who has no argument--can spare himself the keystrokes.

"I, aaron, am under the influence of pernicious ideology, unlike my right-wing opponents who see the world clearly and with an independence of mind that is testimony to the wonders of the human spirit."

&>%?

>>>"Sounds like you have a rather conspiratorial view of America's vaunted democracy. Ha!"<<<

Sounds to you? Fine with me, you a.a.r.o.n.

>>>"If you think I'm in accord with the alleged "Arabists" in the CIA, you're even dumber than I thought. (BTW, what makes someone who supports dictators in the Arab world an "Arabist"? Explain that one to me.)"<<<

An Anti Rational Oaf Nervy is proving he'll distort my words by conjuring anything he wants into what I wrote. (And where did I say anything about Arabists in the CIA?) I suspect he knows what I meant and is only feigning he misunderstood both me and the meaning of an Arabist.

>>>"If you think an authentically participatory and democratic form of governance in the Arab/Muslim world would bode well for your favorite theocracy and its imperial benefactor, well, you're retarded. "<<<

Well, how unsurprising to witness An Anti Rational Oaf Nervy unjustly labelling Israel a theocracy. Anyhow, I believe that authentic democracy throughout the Arab/Muslim world does have potential for being a good omen for Israel, provided the respective governments reeducate the masses to view the Israeli Jews in particular and Jews in general as fellow humans worthy of respect, trust and peace. If a.a.r.o.n can't grasp this possibility's feasibility, than he's more foolish than the a.a.r.o.n he is.

>>>"Time for you, C(re)T(in), to stop taking neo-conservative pronouncements at face value. They're not intended to be taken that way."<<<

Another unsubstantiated a.a.r.o.n. utterance, and wrong at that. As it happens, I form my opinions completely separate of any politician's pronouncements. In fact, I hardly bother to get to know what the neocons say. So much for a.a.r.o.n's sweeping genius.

And finally,
>>>"<<big ideological words indicating at least the potential for an antisemitic blossoming on your part.>>

If you were sincerely concerned about antisemitism you woudn't joke about it. "<<<

The other contributor wasn't necessarily joking,-- there's no clear indication he/she was joking -- but yet An Anti Rational Oaf Nervy elevated his conjecture to the level of fact. A.a.r.o.n. indeed

<<An Anti Rational Oaf Nervy is proving he'll distort my words by conjuring anything he wants into what I wrote. (And where did I say anything about Arabists in the CIA?) I suspect he knows what I meant and is only feigning he misunderstood both me and the meaning of an Arabist.>>

these are your words: "and the fact that Foggy Bottom led by your Arabist friends.."

so i made the mistake of thinking you meant the CIA when referring to the "Foggy Bottom" when i guess you meant the state department. my point still stands: you're a fool if you think i'm in accord with those you meaninglessly call "Arabists" (a classic neo-con propaganda trope) in the S.D.--or any other department or agency administering or enacting US foreign policy.

i would add that the far-rightists within the Bush Administration have cleverly deployed the language of human rights and democracy as a cover for their attempt to preserve and extend American dominance in the middle east and central asia. but they--unlike you, CreTin--are fully aware that a severely repressive climate is indispensible to their goals--think Egypt, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, etc etc--because the opposite threatens America's control. The "Arabists" that you deride differ only in that they understand that US policy should be executed with a modicum of diplomacy and realism about the limits of US power and the requirements for its preservation.

<<I believe that authentic democracy throughout the Arab/Muslim world does have potential for being a good omen for Israel, provided the respective governments reeducate the masses to view the Israeli Jews in particular and Jews in general as fellow humans worthy of respect, trust and peace.>>

in lieu of Israel changing its policies of dispossession, occupation, and murder, "authentic democracy in the arab/muslim world" would portend bad things for it because the "masses" would no longer be constrained by repressive pro-American regimes which talk big against Israel, but, at the "end of the day," do little to aid the Palestineans in their struggle for freedom and justice.

<<In fact, I hardly bother to get to know what the neocons say.>>

funny thing that. you're rhetoric is identical to theirs. perhaps you absorb it via osmosis.

<<The other contributor wasn't necessarily joking.. there's no clear indication he/she was joking>>

hmmm. people who're sincerely concerned about antisemitism don't refer to it as something that "blossoms."
nor do they cavalierly accuse those with whom they disagree of harboring such attitudes. but then, baseless charges of antisemitism are the zionists bread and butter....

<< >>

i note that you make no effort to address what i said about Israel's many anti-semitic supporters, such as Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and Richard Nixon.

should I infer that you don't disagree but would rather avoid addressing the fact that some of Israel's most ardent supporters are/were simultaneously some of the most powerful anti-semites in the US?

while you're avoiding that issue, perhaps you could also avoid facing the fact that some of Israel's most articulate and scathing critics are themselves Jews (Noam Chomsky, Norman Finklestein, and Lenni Brenner come to mind off the top of my head)...

i'm going out of town and won't respond if you bother posting again.

goodbye CreTin!

>>>"so i made the mistake of thinking you meant the CIA when referring to the "Foggy Bottom" when i guess you meant the state department."<<<

Yeah, as a person who ostensibly has been living in the States for decades on end unlike myself, you have much to be concerned about. But I don't bet your mistake will serve to temper your misplaced arrogance.

>>>"my point still stands: you're a fool if you think i'm in accord with those you meaninglessly call "Arabists" (a classic neo-con propaganda trope) in the S.D.--"<<<

For a man who parades through this site as some geopolitical analyst prodigy of sorts you've got much to learn.
It's no meaningless feat to brand those Foggy Bottom officials Arabists. A book authored by Robert D. Kaplan devotes most of its content to the origins of the Arabists. See more on http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0028740238/002-1357148-4167243?v=glance . I haven't found evidence as to when the term itself was coined, but I hazard a guess a.a.r.o.n is wrong claiming it originated in neocon circles; a.a.r.o.n doesn't provide any proof that the neocons coined it. Let us see the proof. Until it's presented, I shall adhere to my belief the word wasn't invented by them.

>>>"i would add that the far-rightists within the Bush Administration have cleverly deployed the language of human rights and democracy as a cover for their attempt to preserve and extend American dominance in the middle east and central asia. but they--unlike you, CT--are fully aware that a severely repressive climate is indispensible to their goals--think Egypt, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, etc etc--because the opposite threatens America's control."<<<

While a.a.r.o.n. may view the new Afghani president as a puppet, there hasn't been any officially repressive ambiance to speak of in his country since the liberation from the Taliban regime as of yet. This case suggests a lacuna in a.a.r.o.n.'s perspective. This crack in a.a.r.o.n.'s theory will widen to threatening proportions if both the new Afghani and Iraqi regimes prove repressive-free relative to dictatorial regimes.
What's more, America exercises substantial control over freer regimes like Israel's, though a.a.r.o.n would be quick to quip that it's the reverse -- the almighty theocratic Jewish state puppeteering the feeble US from afar. Never mind that many pundits consider Israel too dependent on the US; some deem its independence a hollow concept.

>>>" The "Arabists" that you deride differ only in that they understand that US policy should be executed with a modicum of diplomacy and realism about the limits of US power and the requirements for its preservation."<<<

This statement implies the non-Arabists don't possess that important understanding. Needless to say this is nonsense. Conni Rise and other non-Arabists, including Collin Powell, are living examples that put the lie to a.a.a.r.o.n's simple minded implication.

CT: I believe that authentic democracy throughout the Arab/Muslim world does have potential for being a good omen for Israel, provided the respective governments reeducate the masses to view the Israeli Jews in particular and Jews in general as fellow humans worthy of respect, trust and peace.

>>>"in lieu of Israel changing its policies of dispossession, occupation, and murder, "authentic democracy in the arab/muslim world" would portend bad things for it because the "masses" would no longer be constrained by repressive pro-American regimes which talk big against Israel, but, at the "end of the day," do little to aid the Palestineans in their struggle for freedom and justice."<<<

First off, this passage is another example of a.a.r.o.n.'s simple minded extrapolations, since he fails to tale into account the possibility of democratic Arab regimes being pro-American. By the way, when we examine Egypt, we see that Mubaraq and Anwar Sadat weren't more repressive than the pro-Soviet and anti-American Nasser.
Secondly, a.a.r.o.n doesn't shy from misrepresenting Israel as having policies of dispossession, occupation and murder (why didn't he say "genocide"?), but then again many have grown accustomed to seeing these fashionable lies spouted ad infinitum. At any rate, a.a.r.o.n would love to discount the prospect that Arabs in neighboring states will gradually be made to see and hear far more balanced pictures and accounts of the Palestinian-Israeli dispute than those shown to them at present. So his certainty that the Arab regimes and their subjects would pose a serious threat to Israel doesn't necessarily rest on solid foundations.

CT: In fact, I hardly bother to get to know what the neocons say.

>>>"funny thing that. you're rhetoric is identical to theirs. perhaps you absorb it via osmosis. "<<<

Frankly I couldn't care less, not even about a.a.r.o.n.'s certitude that I actually absorb any of their rhetoric.

CT: The other contributor wasn't necessarily joking.. there's no clear indication he/she was joking.

>>>"hmmm. people who're sincerely concerned about antisemitism don't refer to it as something that "blossoms." "<<<

That's one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on this site coming from a person who actually has some brain power as opposed to out and out morons like Windy Wacky Campbell. But then I haven't gotten a chance to read your musings over the years; perhaps you're capable of even dumber pearls of "wisdom".

>>>"nor do they [people who're sincerely concerned about antisemitism] cavalierly accuse those with whom they disagree of harboring such attitudes. but then, baseless charges of antisemitism are the zionists bread and butter...."<<<

Well, you made one absolutely correct statement only to undue its effect by uttering a negative, generalizing and drivel excuse for observation whose absolute value is greater than that of the positive statement you made earlier.

You know, you point fingers at others for carrying the name of the struggle against antisemitism in vain, but I haven't seen you contribute neither on this site nor on SF-IMC of yore to my recollection, in that struggle. Where is your contribution? I assume it's quite easy for you to remain passive on this front, then occasionally complain about statements from people who at least try to speak up on the issue. But considering your distorted perspective on the realities in the Land of Israel born out of a reluctance to inform yourself through more balance sources conveying history and actual affairs, I'm not surprised you try to achieve the best of two worlds: not to rail against antisemitism here and also complain about others' alleged misdeeds on this issue.

>>>"i note that you make no effort to address what i said about Israel's many anti-semitic supporters, such as Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and Richard Nixon.

should I infer that you don't disagree but would rather avoid addressing the fact that some of Israel's most ardent supporters are/were simultaneously some of the most powerful anti-semites in the US?"<<<

I'm not sufficiently in the know about all these people to pass informed judgement, yet I am familiar with Nixon's antisemitism (closet or otherwise) and have heard something about some problem with Falwell. While these biases are very unfortunate and far from being ignored should be subjected to refutation and educational efforts whenever they get expressed aimed to deny them any public opinion influence, no good to Jews or Israel would emerge if these people were anti-Israel. The most telling example may be that of Truman who can be considered antisemitic given recent revelations. As you leftists like to put it, history's judgement will eventually come back to haunt him in the form of karma. But his antisemitism doesn't cancel out the value of the support he lended to Israel.

>>>"blah blah , perhaps you could also avoid facing the fact that some of Israel's most articulate and scathing critics are themselves Jews (Noam Chomsky, Norman Finklestein, and Lenni Brenner come to mind off the top of my head)..."<<<

I've never avoided this fact. This reality isn't even a post-modern one. On the other hand, what I keep noticing is that you perpetually duck the fact that most of that threesome's criticisms of Israel consists of discredited lies and other inaccuracies. But this never disturbed you since substitutes for factual observations are to you better than bliss.

>>>"i'm going out of town and won't respond if you bother posting again."<<<

You're bolting the kitchen as you can't take the heat. It's been fun exposing the drivel and weak portions of your arguments, a.a.r.o.n.