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CNN: Martin Luther KingJr shot by other than James Earl Ray
I am uploading this transcript, because I think it is interesting that CNN is actually covering it. Their framing of the topic is a bit off. 'Conspiracy' magazines and websites which mix in complete trash with historical events where there is abundant evidence to indicate that something other than the mainstream press account occurred do a disservice.
Many incidents, such as likely voter fraud in the Kennedy Nixon election, CIA plots in Cuba, Zaire, and other places,
the 'Operation Northwoods' plan, all have large amounts of evidence backing them up, but labeling them as conspiracy theories puts them in the same category as mystical stories about UFOs and the Masons.
I saw someone's presentation on the Martin Luther King Jr. assassination, and there is actually a fairly convincing amount of evidence that something other than the simple story occurred, of James Earl Ray being a straightforward racist, and on his own, traveled to a city he was unfamiliar with, found the hotel where King would be staying, bought a rifle, and figured out the angles so he could shoot him. Ray was not known to be a racist, and there was no straight shot from the position where his room was and where he was supposed to have been standing, to where King was shot.
The most important piece of evidence that they don't mention here is that the FBI Cointelpro Operation under the J Edgar Hoover administration had documents in its files, obtained by Freedom of Information act, that showed that they had been sending letters to MLK Jr saying that he should commit suicide, or they would release rumors that he was cheating on his wife and so forth, and they had agents following around and trying to manipulate his life with tricks and faked letters to his associates. If a few brave people had not discovered and outed COINTELPRO, it would all sound like a big conspiracy, but it is completely documented. They weren't rogue agents, because they put copies of the letters they sent King right in their official files.
----------------------------
All this week, we're taking a close look at conspiracy theories, stories that are not necessarily in the headlines, but ones that continue to be at the center of controversy.
Tonight, the murder of Martin Luther King Jr. You may not know this, but when his convicted assassin James Earl Ray died a prisoner six years ago, King's family called it "a tragedy for the entire nation." It may seem like an odd statement, considering Ray confessed to murdering King in 1968. He later recanted that confession, and even suggested the killing was part of a conspiracy. King's family believed Ray and worked on efforts to get him a trial. That never happened.
Tonight we look at the facts and talk to two people involved in the case who have very different viewpoints. First, CNN's Adaora Udoji with this installment of "Conspiracy Theories: Truth or Paranoia."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some say Martin Luther King Jr. had gotten too powerful, that he was taking his followers down an anti-Vietnam War, anti-poverty road the federal government couldn't tolerate.
WILLIAM PEPPER, AUTHOR, "AN ACT OF STATE": The decision to kill Martin King started at very senior levels of defense and intelligence structures in this country.
UDOJI: Attorney William Pepper, a friend of King's, says his two-decade investigation discovered a contract hit went out to the mob, that James Earl Ray, who pled guilty to King's 1968 murder was only a patsy, who wasn't even at the crime scene. FBI documents show the agency tried to discredit King, which conspiracy believers say bolsters their case.
The problem is, two federal and a Memphis police investigation concluded there was no evidence of a government conspiracy. Memphis prosecutor John Campbell says Ray may have had help, but he pulled the trigger.
JOHN CAMPBELL, ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think they're trying to build a fantasy conspiracy out of bits and pieces, and basically trying to ignore what was really the proof in the case.
UDOJI: Campbell says authorities have never found the shady figure Raul whom Ray said hired him. They never found evidence to back up bar owner Lloyd Jowers' claim that he hired another man to kill King. But the King family believed Jowers and they met with Ray.
MARTIN LUTHER KING III: Did you kill my father?
JAMES EARL RAY: No, no, I didn't, no.
UDOJI: A jury agreed in a civil trial, where Pepper represented the family, deciding Jowers had something to do with King's death.
PEPPER: It took a jury 59 minutes after 30 days of trial and 70 witnesses to find for the King family.
UDOJI: The King family, back in 2000, hoped the case would trigger a non-governmental review. They are still waiting.
Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, as always on 360, we don't take sides, we like to look at all the angles. Joining me from Memphis, Tennessee is John Campbell, an assistant district attorney for Shelby County. He was the chief prosecutor when the Ray case was brought to criminal court in the 1990s.
And here in New York is William Pepper, who's been an attorney for both James Earl Ray and the King family. He's the author of "An Act of State: The Execution of Martin Luther King." We appreciate both of you joining us.
Mr. Pepper, let me start off with you. In 2000, the Justice Department released a finding after 18 months investigating they concluded and I quote, "there's no credible information to support allegations of any conspiracy." Why is that not good enough?
PEPPER: It's not good enough, because they didn't even take the time to interview or attempt to interview over 90 percent of the witnesses who gave evidence at the civil trial in 1999, and witnesses who had testified under oath and provided very hard, real evidence. They just did not interview those people, and to the extent that they did interview some, they discounted their evidence.
COOPER: Mr. Campbell, you contend there was no high-profile conspiracy, that James Earl Ray was not an innocent patsy.
CAMPBELL: Right.
COOPER: What makes you so sure? I mean, what about these witnesses who Mr. Pepper is saying weren't talked to?
CAMPBELL: Well, first of all, they were talked to. A number of them refused to talk to the Department of Justice. We did, however, talked to them. Some of these witnesses back in the early of the mid- 90s, when the first allegations of Mr. Ray and Mr. Pepper were made to Criminal Court Division 9, and at that point in time, Mr. Jowers was saying some person named Frank Holt was the gunman, and that he received money and paid Frank Holt to do the killing.
That theory went out the window when the witnesses began to backtrack on what they were saying, and Frank Holt was found and denied that he was involved. And that story then changed to, well, then we got some Memphis police officer who's doing the shooting.
COOPER: Mr. Pepper, there do seem to be a lot of shifting stories. I mean, James Earl Ray, you know, confessed and then recanted his confession a few days later, and over the years came up with all sorts of different -- sort of hinted at all sorts of different conspiracies. It's kind of hard to pin down what they are even saying happened.
PEPPER: Not really. James really didn't know what happened. He was a patsy. Mr. Campbell's disability is that he came on to the case very late, and in actual fact, he did no investigation. I put Mr. Campbell's investigator on the stand in the civil trial, Mr. Glankler (ph). I gave him 25 names of key witnesses who had given testimony under oath. He admitted that he tried to -- he tried to interview two of those people at the time. Forget about the 70 witnesses who testified. They did no investigation.
COOPER: Do you have physical evidence -- do you have physical evidence -- I mean, because there was a gun with James Earl Ray's fingerprints on it, I mean, found at the scene. James Earl Ray was seen leaving the scene.
PEPPER: That was not the murder weapon. They never could match -- never did match the death slug to that rifle. That was a rifle that James was instructed to buy, which he bought, and which was thrown down. Mr. Campbell's claim that Raul has never been identified is simply pure rubbish. Raul has been identified, and we know where he is at this point in time. COOPER: Mr. Campbell, do you believe that that was the murder weapon that James Earl Ray used?
CAMPBELL: Most definitely. I mean, the fact of the matter is, the murder weapon was recovered right the night of the crime in front of Knight's newsman (ph) company. It was tested. This particular weapon, whenever you fire it, the bullets -- the test bullets have never matched one to the other, so they've never been able to match them to the bullet recovered from Dr. King. It's been inconclusive.
COOPER: What do you think is going on here? I mean, you know, Mr. Pepper seems like a decent man. Do you think he's just mistaken? Lying? I mean, why is this story still alive?
CAMPBELL: I can't speak to Mr. Pepper -- I can't speak to what his thoughts are. All I can say is that when we've looked at this, and I beg to differ. We did look at a lot of these witnesses, the ones who would cooperate and talked to us, we talked to many, many witnesses. And you have this undercurrent of, if you help out in this project, you're liable to get some money from a movie deal. Several people talked about that.
COOPER: Is this about money for a movie deal?
PEPPER: It's not about money for a movie deal. And if Mr. Campbell and the district attorney general's office in Memphis wanted to get to the truth of this case, they would have allowed us to put this evidence before a Memphis grand jury. We tried to do that time and again.
CAMPBELL: The grand jury heard from you. The grand jury never heard your people...
(CROSSTALK)
PEPPER: The grand jury never heard -- the grand jury never heard from our people.
COOPER: You said you know who is Raul? Who is Raul?
PEPPER: Raul is a fellow who is a Portuguese immigrant. He lives not very far from here. He's well-protected by the government. The testimony at the trial established all of the details of Raul. And even to the point where his own daughter identified the photograph that James Earl Ray identified in 1978.
Mr. Campbell, final thought we've got to leave it there.
CAMPBELL: Well, first the Raul that they supposedly claim was the Raul was not in Memphis in 1968. We talked to people who could put him in New York in 19 -- in April 4, '68.
COOPER: I'm going to have to leave it there. William Pepper, John Campbell, we do appreciate you joining us. We could go on about this all night. A lot of different theories. Thank you very much for joining us. We're going to explore some other conspiracy theories all this week. On 360 tomorrow, the 1996 crash of TWA flight 800. Investigators say a fuel tank spark caused the plane to explode. Others believe it was shot down, some interesting information tomorrow night.
On Thursday, the origin of HIV, why some are saying the U.S. government is behind it. That's a conspiracy out there on the Internet. We'll look at the facts.
the 'Operation Northwoods' plan, all have large amounts of evidence backing them up, but labeling them as conspiracy theories puts them in the same category as mystical stories about UFOs and the Masons.
I saw someone's presentation on the Martin Luther King Jr. assassination, and there is actually a fairly convincing amount of evidence that something other than the simple story occurred, of James Earl Ray being a straightforward racist, and on his own, traveled to a city he was unfamiliar with, found the hotel where King would be staying, bought a rifle, and figured out the angles so he could shoot him. Ray was not known to be a racist, and there was no straight shot from the position where his room was and where he was supposed to have been standing, to where King was shot.
The most important piece of evidence that they don't mention here is that the FBI Cointelpro Operation under the J Edgar Hoover administration had documents in its files, obtained by Freedom of Information act, that showed that they had been sending letters to MLK Jr saying that he should commit suicide, or they would release rumors that he was cheating on his wife and so forth, and they had agents following around and trying to manipulate his life with tricks and faked letters to his associates. If a few brave people had not discovered and outed COINTELPRO, it would all sound like a big conspiracy, but it is completely documented. They weren't rogue agents, because they put copies of the letters they sent King right in their official files.
----------------------------
All this week, we're taking a close look at conspiracy theories, stories that are not necessarily in the headlines, but ones that continue to be at the center of controversy.
Tonight, the murder of Martin Luther King Jr. You may not know this, but when his convicted assassin James Earl Ray died a prisoner six years ago, King's family called it "a tragedy for the entire nation." It may seem like an odd statement, considering Ray confessed to murdering King in 1968. He later recanted that confession, and even suggested the killing was part of a conspiracy. King's family believed Ray and worked on efforts to get him a trial. That never happened.
Tonight we look at the facts and talk to two people involved in the case who have very different viewpoints. First, CNN's Adaora Udoji with this installment of "Conspiracy Theories: Truth or Paranoia."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some say Martin Luther King Jr. had gotten too powerful, that he was taking his followers down an anti-Vietnam War, anti-poverty road the federal government couldn't tolerate.
WILLIAM PEPPER, AUTHOR, "AN ACT OF STATE": The decision to kill Martin King started at very senior levels of defense and intelligence structures in this country.
UDOJI: Attorney William Pepper, a friend of King's, says his two-decade investigation discovered a contract hit went out to the mob, that James Earl Ray, who pled guilty to King's 1968 murder was only a patsy, who wasn't even at the crime scene. FBI documents show the agency tried to discredit King, which conspiracy believers say bolsters their case.
The problem is, two federal and a Memphis police investigation concluded there was no evidence of a government conspiracy. Memphis prosecutor John Campbell says Ray may have had help, but he pulled the trigger.
JOHN CAMPBELL, ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think they're trying to build a fantasy conspiracy out of bits and pieces, and basically trying to ignore what was really the proof in the case.
UDOJI: Campbell says authorities have never found the shady figure Raul whom Ray said hired him. They never found evidence to back up bar owner Lloyd Jowers' claim that he hired another man to kill King. But the King family believed Jowers and they met with Ray.
MARTIN LUTHER KING III: Did you kill my father?
JAMES EARL RAY: No, no, I didn't, no.
UDOJI: A jury agreed in a civil trial, where Pepper represented the family, deciding Jowers had something to do with King's death.
PEPPER: It took a jury 59 minutes after 30 days of trial and 70 witnesses to find for the King family.
UDOJI: The King family, back in 2000, hoped the case would trigger a non-governmental review. They are still waiting.
Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, as always on 360, we don't take sides, we like to look at all the angles. Joining me from Memphis, Tennessee is John Campbell, an assistant district attorney for Shelby County. He was the chief prosecutor when the Ray case was brought to criminal court in the 1990s.
And here in New York is William Pepper, who's been an attorney for both James Earl Ray and the King family. He's the author of "An Act of State: The Execution of Martin Luther King." We appreciate both of you joining us.
Mr. Pepper, let me start off with you. In 2000, the Justice Department released a finding after 18 months investigating they concluded and I quote, "there's no credible information to support allegations of any conspiracy." Why is that not good enough?
PEPPER: It's not good enough, because they didn't even take the time to interview or attempt to interview over 90 percent of the witnesses who gave evidence at the civil trial in 1999, and witnesses who had testified under oath and provided very hard, real evidence. They just did not interview those people, and to the extent that they did interview some, they discounted their evidence.
COOPER: Mr. Campbell, you contend there was no high-profile conspiracy, that James Earl Ray was not an innocent patsy.
CAMPBELL: Right.
COOPER: What makes you so sure? I mean, what about these witnesses who Mr. Pepper is saying weren't talked to?
CAMPBELL: Well, first of all, they were talked to. A number of them refused to talk to the Department of Justice. We did, however, talked to them. Some of these witnesses back in the early of the mid- 90s, when the first allegations of Mr. Ray and Mr. Pepper were made to Criminal Court Division 9, and at that point in time, Mr. Jowers was saying some person named Frank Holt was the gunman, and that he received money and paid Frank Holt to do the killing.
That theory went out the window when the witnesses began to backtrack on what they were saying, and Frank Holt was found and denied that he was involved. And that story then changed to, well, then we got some Memphis police officer who's doing the shooting.
COOPER: Mr. Pepper, there do seem to be a lot of shifting stories. I mean, James Earl Ray, you know, confessed and then recanted his confession a few days later, and over the years came up with all sorts of different -- sort of hinted at all sorts of different conspiracies. It's kind of hard to pin down what they are even saying happened.
PEPPER: Not really. James really didn't know what happened. He was a patsy. Mr. Campbell's disability is that he came on to the case very late, and in actual fact, he did no investigation. I put Mr. Campbell's investigator on the stand in the civil trial, Mr. Glankler (ph). I gave him 25 names of key witnesses who had given testimony under oath. He admitted that he tried to -- he tried to interview two of those people at the time. Forget about the 70 witnesses who testified. They did no investigation.
COOPER: Do you have physical evidence -- do you have physical evidence -- I mean, because there was a gun with James Earl Ray's fingerprints on it, I mean, found at the scene. James Earl Ray was seen leaving the scene.
PEPPER: That was not the murder weapon. They never could match -- never did match the death slug to that rifle. That was a rifle that James was instructed to buy, which he bought, and which was thrown down. Mr. Campbell's claim that Raul has never been identified is simply pure rubbish. Raul has been identified, and we know where he is at this point in time. COOPER: Mr. Campbell, do you believe that that was the murder weapon that James Earl Ray used?
CAMPBELL: Most definitely. I mean, the fact of the matter is, the murder weapon was recovered right the night of the crime in front of Knight's newsman (ph) company. It was tested. This particular weapon, whenever you fire it, the bullets -- the test bullets have never matched one to the other, so they've never been able to match them to the bullet recovered from Dr. King. It's been inconclusive.
COOPER: What do you think is going on here? I mean, you know, Mr. Pepper seems like a decent man. Do you think he's just mistaken? Lying? I mean, why is this story still alive?
CAMPBELL: I can't speak to Mr. Pepper -- I can't speak to what his thoughts are. All I can say is that when we've looked at this, and I beg to differ. We did look at a lot of these witnesses, the ones who would cooperate and talked to us, we talked to many, many witnesses. And you have this undercurrent of, if you help out in this project, you're liable to get some money from a movie deal. Several people talked about that.
COOPER: Is this about money for a movie deal?
PEPPER: It's not about money for a movie deal. And if Mr. Campbell and the district attorney general's office in Memphis wanted to get to the truth of this case, they would have allowed us to put this evidence before a Memphis grand jury. We tried to do that time and again.
CAMPBELL: The grand jury heard from you. The grand jury never heard your people...
(CROSSTALK)
PEPPER: The grand jury never heard -- the grand jury never heard from our people.
COOPER: You said you know who is Raul? Who is Raul?
PEPPER: Raul is a fellow who is a Portuguese immigrant. He lives not very far from here. He's well-protected by the government. The testimony at the trial established all of the details of Raul. And even to the point where his own daughter identified the photograph that James Earl Ray identified in 1978.
Mr. Campbell, final thought we've got to leave it there.
CAMPBELL: Well, first the Raul that they supposedly claim was the Raul was not in Memphis in 1968. We talked to people who could put him in New York in 19 -- in April 4, '68.
COOPER: I'm going to have to leave it there. William Pepper, John Campbell, we do appreciate you joining us. We could go on about this all night. A lot of different theories. Thank you very much for joining us. We're going to explore some other conspiracy theories all this week. On 360 tomorrow, the 1996 crash of TWA flight 800. Investigators say a fuel tank spark caused the plane to explode. Others believe it was shot down, some interesting information tomorrow night.
On Thursday, the origin of HIV, why some are saying the U.S. government is behind it. That's a conspiracy out there on the Internet. We'll look at the facts.
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