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Indybay Feature

IDF: Killing children is no longer a big deal

by Haaretz
More than 30 Palestinian children were killed in the first two weeks of Operation Days of Penitence in the Gaza Strip. It's no wonder that many people term such wholesale killing of children "terror." Whereas in the overall count of all the victims of the intifada the ratio is three Palestinians killed for every Israeli killed, when it comes to children the ratio is 5:1. According to B'Tselem, the human rights organization, even before the current operation in Gaza, 557 Palestinian minors (below the age of 18) were killed, compared to 110 Israeli minors.
Palestinian human rights groups speak of even higher numbers: 598 Palestinian children killed (up to age 17), according to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, and 828 killed (up to age 18) according to the Red Crescent. Take note of the ages, too. According to B'Tselem, whose data are updated until about a month ago, 42 of the children who have been killed were 10; 20 were seven; and eight were two years old when they died. The youngest victims are 13 newborn infants who died at checkpoints during birth.

With horrific statistics like this, the question of who is a terrorist should have long since become very burdensome for every Israeli. Yet it is not on the public agenda. Child killers are always the Palestinians, the soldiers always only defend us and themselves, and the hell with the statistics.

The plain fact, which must be stated clearly, is that the blood of hundreds of Palestinian children is on our hands. No tortuous explanation by the IDF Spokesman's Office or by the military correspondents about the dangers posed to soldiers by the children, and no dubious excuse by the public relations people in the Foreign Ministry about how the Palestinians are making use of children will change that fact. An army that kills so many children is an army with no restraints, an army that has lost its moral code.

As MK Ahmed Tibi (Hadash) said, in a particularly emotional speech in the Knesset, it is no longer possible to claim that all these children were killed by mistake. An army doesn't make more than 500 day-to-day mistakes of identity. No, this is not a mistake but the disastrous result of a policy driven mainly by an appallingly light trigger finger and by the dehumanization of the Palestinians. Shooting at everything that moves, including children, has become normative behavior. Even the momentary mini-furor that erupted over the "confirming of the killing" of a 13-year-old girl, Iman Alhamas, did not revolve around the true question. The scandal should have been generated by the very act of the killing itself, not only by what followed.

Iman was not the only one. Mohammed Aaraj was eating a sandwich in front of his house, the last house before the cemetery of the Balata refugee camp, in Nablus, when a soldier shot him to death at fairly close range. He was six at the time of his death. Kristen Saada was in her parents' car, on the way home from a family visit, when soldiers sprayed the car with bullets. She was 12 at the time of her death. The brothers Jamil and Ahmed Abu Aziz were riding their bicycles in full daylight, on their way to buy sweets, when they sustained a direct hit from a shell fired by an Israeli tank crew. Jamil was 13, Ahmed six, at the time of their deaths.

Muatez Amudi and Subah Subah were killed by a soldier who was standing in the village square in Burkin and fired every which way in the wake of stone-throwing. Radir Mohammed from Khan Yunis refugee camp was in a school classroom when soldiers shot her to death. She was 12 when she died. All of them were innocent of wrongdoing and were killed by soldiers acting in our name.

At least in some of these cases it was clear to the soldiers that they were shooting at children, but that didn't stop them. Palestinian children have no refuge: mortal danger lurks for them in their homes, in their schools and on their streets. Not one of the hundreds of children who have been killed deserved to die, and the responsibility for their killing cannot remain anonymous. Thus the message is conveyed to the soldiers: it's no tragedy to kill children and none of you is guilty.

Death is, of course, the most acute danger that confronts a Palestinian child, but it is not the only one. According to data of the Palestinian Ministry of Education, 3,409 schoolchildren have been wounded in the intifada, some of them crippled for life. The childhood of tens of thousands of Palestinian youngsters is being lived from one trauma to the next, from horror to horror. Their homes are demolished, their parents are humiliated in front of their eyes, soldiers storm into their homes brutally in the middle of the night, tanks open fire on their classrooms. And they don't have a psychological service. Have you ever heard of a Palestinian child who is a "victim of anxiety"?

The public indifference that accompanies this pageant of unrelieved suffering makes all Israelis accomplices to a crime. Even parents, who understand what anxiety for a child's fate means, turn away and don't want to hear about the anxiety harbored by the parent on the other side of the fence. Who would have believed that Israeli soldiers would kill hundreds of children and that the majority of Israelis would remain silent? Even the Palestinian children have become part of the dehumanization campaign: killing hundreds of them is no longer a big deal.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/489479.html
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by ANGEL
These are some of the reasons why we need that Palestinian State in the Whole of the West Bank and Gaza......

So that the Israeli Military can stay inside its own borders of Israel Proper.....and this Struggle for Palestinian Freedom can be achieved and the conflict can end.

Tit for Tat is getting us nowhere, as proof you can see there is still conflict after thirty six years. So you have to look at the problem as it stands today, and do the right thing so both people can live in peace and with freedom.
If only one side has freedom, the other side will always be seeking it, in anyway they can. That is why there have been wars as far back as we can remember.
Thirty six years of war should be enough for such a small number of people, when you consider the World Population.
You can end this never ending conflict by allowing the Palestinian People to have their small state in the Whole of the West Bank and Gaza.
There are 1,200,000 or so Arabs living inside Israel Proper.
There are 400,000 or so Jews living inside the West Bank and Gaza.
Trying to remove all the settlement can be an almost undoable task.
So Set the Borders for Israel to it Pre 1967 Border (Green Line) and have the State of Palestine inside the West Bank and Gaza.
If the U.N. can decide the Borders of Israel in 1948.
The U.N. can decide the Borders of Palestine in 2004.
You would end up with Israel with a majority Jewish Population and Palestine with a majority Muslim Population.
This would allow for the Israeli Military to Guard and Control the Israeli pre 1967 borders instead of confiscating Palestinian Land and Demolishing Palestinian Homes in the West Bank and Gaza that only goes to fuel the need for the Palestinian People to fight for their Freedom.
The Jews who do not like living in the new Palestinian State can feel free to move to Israel if they so choose.
The Arabs living inside Israel can feel free to move to the new Palestinian State if they so choose.
Almost every nation on earth has more then one ethnic group or religious group. So why not Israel and Palestine?
It would sure be better then the never ending conflict we have right now.
so what will you give up in your agenda, for the sake of peace? i mean you specifically, angel....
by ANGEL
I am not the Israeli Government who has the Palestinian People under the Brutal Occupation and Oppression.
I am just an observer who sees the Israeli Government confiscate Palestinian Land and demolish Palestinian homes, build a fence/wall/barrier inside the West Bank taking more Palestinian land instead of on the 1967 (Green line) border where it would do more good in order to get to the point of a Viable Palestinian State called for in the all but forgotten Road Map to Peace, in the Whole of the West Bank and Gaza.

I am not a Palestinian who is not allowed to have equal Military equipment so that I can have an equal chance at saving the Palestinian People from the Brutal Israeli Military who (bravely) drops bomb from the safety of the cockpits of Apache Helicopters which end up causing the death of many innocent people, which is why the death ratio is one Israel to over three Palestinians of which over 500 are children.

I do not need anyone’s money or need fame, so I just say what is, as it is and not as someone pays me to see it or not to see it, so since I owe no one I ask for nothing and I do not have to give anything but he truth.
by you're an outside(likely american) interloper
you agitate the situation while holding little to no stake in its outcome, aside from your own morality.

maybe both sides would be better off with "friends" like you, because then they might be willing to stand down from the war posturing and rhetoric a bit.

just a thing to think about.
by without friends like you
is what i meant to say.
by Angel
PALESTINIAN LEADERS TRICK THEIR PEOPLE AGAIN
by Ariel Natan Pasko Thursday, Aug. 19, 2004 at 9:02 PM
Barghouti eats during a hunger strike. Arafat rips off the Palestinian treasury. Hamas leaders hide while they send off others to die. This article takes a look at these phenomena.

What do Marwan Barghouti, Yasser Arafat, Ahmad Qureia, and leaders past and present of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others, have in common? Besides encouraging their followers to kill Jews in Israel, they regularly pull the wool over their followers' eyes, lying, cheating, and profiting from the suffering of the Palestinians. They habitually sacrifice average Palestinians, in their struggle against Israel, while protecting themselves and their loved ones from harm.

The latest is the case of Marwan Barghouti, West Bank leader of Arafat's Fatah movement, founder of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade (outlawed as a terrorist organization by the US) and a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council. Barghouti is serving five consecutive life terms in an Israeli prison for his involvement in terrorist activities that caused the deaths of many Israelis.



What did he do?

Hamas and Islamic Jihad, along with Fatah's Barghouti, recently called on Palestinian security prisoners in Israeli prisons to start a hunger strike. They've been into it for a few days now, the prison authorities report that over 2,000 prisoners are starving themselves. The Palestinian Authority and Israeli Arab groups have organized demonstrative solidarity days with the hunger strikers, but not Barghouti, he was caught on a hidden video camera in his cell...eating!

That's right, while his fellow prisoners were refraining from food, Marwan Barghouti, the Tanzim terrorist leader, was caught on camera feeding his face. First he covered the door and window of his cell - so as not to be seen - then he washed his hands and pigged out. According to Prison Services spokesman Ofer Lefler, Barghouti asked wardens for the food and ate without knowing that a camera was filming from a small hole in the wall. Israel wanted to catch him, to show fasting prisoners how their leader was behaving, Lefler said. "I want to show the world and the Palestinians that we are dealing with terrorists," Lefler continued, "Barghouti is sitting on a pot of meat and he sends his friends to die."

Imagine that...

Then there's Yasser Arafat. No, he wasn't caught eating yet, but he did tell the Palestinian Legislative Council in Ramallah, that the hunger strikers are "shaheeds" (martyrs-I guess he's planning their early demise) saying, "Your release is at the top of our list of priorities. Together we will continue fighting until the establishment of our own state with Jerusalem as its capital. [Minister of Internal Security Tzahi] Hanegbi says that he doesn't care if you starve to death. I say to him that he does not scare us when he says we will die since we are all prepared to be Shaheeds." Arafat threatens martyrdom every so often to encourage his people to kill themselves, but when faced with real opportunities to be a martyr himself, he backs off (see my April 2004 article, "Arafat Plays Victim Again).

Yasser has done a good job of making sure Suha - his wife - and little girl Zahwa - aged nine - are safely absconded in France, far from any real danger. That's while other nine-year-old Palestinian children attend terrorist summer camps, dreaming and praying for martyrdom (i.e. to kill Israelis and themselves). Suha lives on over $150,000 a month, with $millions more in the bank. In fact, the French have been carrying out an investigation into Suha's accounts, it seems she might be involved in Yasser's money laundering activities. Yasser has been accused of having skimmed over the years $1-3 billion from Palestinian funds, for private usage. So, while Yasser Arafat encourages the children of his people to sacrifice their lives for the cause, he makes sure his daughter is safe in France, and while millions of ordinary Palestinians are in starvation-type conditions, living from day to day, Arafat's wife allegedly lived at a $16,000 a day hotel (suite plus 19 rooms) in Paris when she first got there, shopping in the most exclusive Parisian shops, and now has a mansion in an exclusive Parisian neighborhood.

Charges of corruption in the PA are rife, and recently Arafat was forced to admit - in a speech to the Palestinian Legislative Council - to making "mistakes" and pledged to clean up the Palestinian Authority. But he refused to sign anti-corruption legislation.
In a "stormy and tense" follow-up meeting afterward, with pro-reform legislators, Arafat told them, "[that his speech] was enough and that there is no need for any signatures," said Azmi Shouabi, one of the meeting's participants.

Then there's Ahmad Qureia (Abu Ala) the Palestinian Prime Minister and another Fatah leader. He's been embroiled in what's been called the "PA cement scandal". Several Arab companies have been importing cement from Egypt on behalf of Israeli contractors. The Egyptian cement is then used to build parts of the separation fence, as well as new houses in Jewish communities in Yesha (Judea, Samaria and Gaza). They've been making a lot of money. And, according to reports, the Al-Quds Cement Factory in Abu Dis, in eastern Jerusalem, has been accused by others in the PA, of supplying material for the construction of the fence in Abu Dis itself, and Jewish communities in Yesha. That factory is co-owned by the family of the PA Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia. So while Qureia screams about "the settlements and the wall," he and his family are pocketing profits from their construction.

Maybe the Hamas and Islamic Jihad people are better?

Not a chance. While calling for more Israeli deaths - read, more Arabs killing themselves in terror attacks against Jews - Hamas and Jihad leaders scrambled like rats to hide in the woodwork every time Israel attempted another "targeted killing". After Israel picked off Hamas leader Ismail Abu Shanab last year, all the top Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists were reported to have gone into hiding. That scenario repeated itself several times over the next year as Israel eliminated terrorist leaders Sheikh Yassin, Rantisi and others.

Shortly after Abu Shanab's departure last year, I had to pay a condolence call, where I tried to cheer up a mourner by telling him a joke. I told him, "I heard on the radio that one of the top Hamas officials was on a live telephone interview with Al-Jazeera TV [which is very important for their propaganda campaign], when he heard something outside, the sound of helicopters in the distance. He immediately told the reporter, 'I am sorry, this interview is over, I have to go now'. Click went the phone." I told him, "The good news is that all the top Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists are reported to have gone into hiding. They're all running like rats. Those so-called 'holy warriors' who send off others to murder and die, they're terrified." That cheered him up, and it should cheer us up as well. For all their rhetoric, all these terrorist leaders aren't running to be martyrs either. And do you think any of their sons or daughters are becoming suicidal bombers? Not a chance...

Compared to Arafat, and Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders (many who are now dead), who regularly incite the Palestinian masses to sacrifice themselves for Palestine, Barghouti's little indiscretion - eating during a hunger strike - seems rather mild. And, can we really fault old Yasser for trying to better himself from the Palestinian's pocketbook, or, Ahmad's avaricious behavior?

It really is indicative of a much broader problem, that Palestinians face, the perfidy of their "leaders".

But then again, they are terrorists aren't they? And the biggest victims of Palestinian terrorism are the so-called Palestinian people themselves...

Ariel Natan Pasko is an independent analyst & consultant. He has a Master's Degree in International Relations & Policy Analysis. His articles appear regularly on numerous news/views and think-tank websites, in newspapers, and can be read at:

http://www.geocities.com/ariel_natan_pasko
by real friends
would try to end it, not egg it on.
by "terrorism" has lost all meaning
it is so overused, it means nothing in particular.

here's to the rehumanization of everyone-- another casualty of war.
by ANGEL
These are some of the reasons why we do not need that Palestinian State in the Whole of the West Bank and Gaza......

So that the Israeli Military can stay inside its own borders of Israel.....and this Struggle for Palestinian Destruction can be defeated the conflict can end.

Tit for Tat is getting us nowhere, as proof you can see there is still conflict after thirty seven years. So you have to look at the problem as it stands today, and do the right thing so both Peoples can live in Peace and with Freedom.
If only one side acts with Reason, the other side will always be seeking to avoid compromises based on Reason, anyway they can. That is why there have been wars as far back as we can remember.
Thirty seven years of war should be enough for such a small number of people, when you consider the World Population.
You can end this never ending Conflict by allowing the Palestinian People to have their small state in a Small Part of the West Bank and Gaza.
There are 1,200,000 or so Arabs living inside Israel Proper.
There are 400,000 or so Jews living inside the West Bank and Gaza.
Trying to remove all the Settlements can be an almost undoable task.
So Set the Borders for Israel somewhat beyond its Pre 1967 Border (Green Line) and have the State of Palestine inside Part of the West Bank and Gaza.
If the U.N. could decide the Borders of Israel in 1947and fail to protect the Jews from the Arab Attack that ensued...
The U.N. can not decide the Borders of Palestine in 2004.
You would end up with Israel with a majority Jewish Population and Palestine with a majority Muslim Population.
This would allow for the Israeli Military to Guard and Control the new Israeli Borders instead of confiscating Palestinian Land and Demolishing Palestinian Homes in the West Bank and Gaza, provided the Palesinian Terrorists stop trying to rob Israelis of their Freedom by initiating attacks on Israeli citizens that only go to fuel the Israeli reprisals.
The Jews who do not like living in the new Palestinian State can feel free to move to Israel if they so choose.
The Arabs living inside Israel should feel free to move to the new Palestinian State if they so choose.
Almost every nation on earth has more then one ethnic group or religious group. So why not Israel and Palestine?
It would sure be better then the never ending Tit for Tat Conflict we have right now.
by Scott Peterson; angel did it!!
Scott Peterson; angel did it!!
by ANGEL
End the Atrocities, Free Both Peoples
by ANGEL Tuesday, Oct. 19, 2004 at 1:39 AM (by anti-Angel)

End the Atrocities, Free the Palestinian People.....
by ANGEL Monday, Oct. 18, 2004 at 11:46 PM (by ANGEL)

>>by you're an outside(likely american) interloper <<

If I am an interloper, exactly who are you??

>>maybe both sides would be better off with "friends" like you, because then they might be willing to stand down from the war posturing and rhetoric a bit. just a thing to think about. should be ---by (without friends like you)<<

Exactly why are you for what is going on right now?

over 1000 Israelis dead
over 3000 Palestinian dead
many on both sides are children

What is exactly wrong with 78% of the land for 6,000,000 people and 22% of the land for the remaining 4,000,000.

Since neither side wants to be ruled by the other??



by Sefarad
Don't forget that the "Palestinians" send children with explosives and to attack the Israelis, and that the "Palestinian" terrorists use to hiding among children.
by S/F- In-da-bay deception at work
S/F- In-da-bay deception at work
by ANGEL
End the Atrocities, Free Both Peoples
by ANGEL Tuesday, Oct. 19, 2004 at 1:39 AM (by ANGEL)

End the Atrocities, Free the Palestinian People.....
by ANGEL Monday, Oct. 18, 2004 at 11:46 PM (by anti-Angel)

>>by you're an outside(likely american) interloper <<

If I am an American, exactly who are you??

>>maybe both sides would be better off without "friends" like you, because then they might be willing to stand down from the war posturing and rhetoric a bit. just a thing to think about. should be ---by (without friends like you)<<

Exactly why are you for what is going on right now?

over 1000 innocent Israelis dead
over 3000 not innocent Palestinian dead
many on both sides are children

What is exactly wrong with 85% of the land for more than 6,000,000 people and 15% of the land for the some 4,000,000

Since neither side wants to be ruled by the other??
by Sefarad
I have left you something in the other place. Now I have to leave but I'll go on when I am back. Meanwhile, if you could read what I left there and send your opinion, I would thank you.

by Zionism = racism
> What is exactly wrong with 85% of the land for more than 6,000,000 people and 15% of the land for the some 4,000,000

What is wrong, is dividing land up along ethnic lines. It is racist by definition.
by Zionism = ethnic cleansing
What is wrong, is aiming at cleansing the land of *any* ethnic group.
by Neither is writing for Neo-nazi websites.
I remain incredulous that it doesn't seem to bother many of y'all that a regular, partisan poster here is also making regular contributions to neo-nazi websites for the purpose of building bridges.

This is perhaps a warning as to the results of too much polemic, a certain lack of balance, as relates to the Palestine/Israel conflict.

But it seems to me that there is a question of principle in here somewhere too.

So why the deafening silence? I don't ask that, by the way, as an indirect argument for censorship per se. It just seems like an awfully big question to just ignore.

Maybe it's just easier to scream at each other over any given corpse?
by Zionists are the ultimate censors
I wonder why there is a "deadening silence" about how indybay allows Zionists like gehrig, sefarad, "GENUINE anti-racists" ( who advocates violence against others he disagrees with) to post regularly?
by you will find the ultimate censor
...over on that other local indymedia, sf.indywhateverthefuck. nessie can't seem to allow the simplest post to go amiss if he disagrees with it.

nessie, you seem to be getting your ass kicked from one thread to another lately.
by a typical Zionist ploy
Don't talk about the IDF killing children. Talk about anti-Semitism.
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