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50,000 trapped by Israeli assault on Gaza
shielded from view is the suffering of about 50,000 Palestinians trapped in areas seized by hundreds of Israeli troops, backed by about 200 tanks and armoured vehicles....Many people are without water in Beit Hanoun, a town of 15,000 near the border with Israel. Aref Azaneed, a ministry of agriculture inspector, said: "The water and the sewage lines are near each other. When the tanks destroy them, they mix. The water from the tap has sewage in it."
Chris McGreal in Jabaliya refugee camp
Tuesday October 5, 2004
The Guardian
Israeli forces have demolished the homes of hundreds of Palestinians, bulldozed swaths of agricultural land and destroyed infrastructure in their bloodiest assault on the Gaza Strip in years.
More than 70 people have died in Operation Days of Penitence, launched in northern Gaza six days ago after a Hamas rocket attack killed two Israeli children. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem said that the dead included 31 civilians. Nineteen were under 18.
Most of the nine people killed yesterday were Palestinian fighters, but a teenage girl was among the dead, shot in her home. In southern Gaza Israeli forces killed a four-year-old boy in Khan Yunis refugee camp, where several Palestinian children have been shot dead in recent weeks.
Last night the Israeli army said it had killed a Palestinian gunman who had tried to infiltrate a nearby settlement. Early today an Israeli missile strike in Jabaliya killed one Palestinian militant and wounded two others.
But shielded from view is the suffering of about 50,000 Palestinians trapped in areas seized by hundreds of Israeli troops, backed by about 200 tanks and armoured vehicles.
Palestinians in the Israeli-held areas, including parts of Jabaliya refugee camp and the small town of Beit Hanoun, described by telephone the widespread destruction and desperate living conditions.
Armoured bulldozers had demolished scores, possibly hundreds, of homes, they said. Thousands of people had spent days without electricity and water, although power was restored sporadically yesterday. Residents said that the destruction of sewage systems had contaminated the water supplies in some areas.
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"I can hear shooting now," said Hanna Basyouni, 35, who has seven children, speaking from an occupied section of Jabaliya. "I see the tanks below me. The tanks and the bulldozers are 50 metres away from my home. I can see them shooting right now."
Mrs Basyouni lives on the edge of Jabaliya where, she said, the Israeli army had bulldozed greenhouses that had been families' only source of income for several generations.
The Israeli military says it is clearing a six-mile-wide buffer zone to stop Hamas launching rockets across the border. But yesterday the Islamist group fired two missiles into Israel. "There's not one tree left for as far as I can see," said Mrs Basyouni. "Five or six homes around me are completely bulldozed, and I can't be sure how many beyond that. My sister's home was destroyed ... [She] is living in a tent. She has nine children."
Ambulance drivers, the only Palestinians permitted to cross into the occupied areas, confirmed the scale of the destruction. Abid Ahmed Abu Mohammed, a driver for Kamal Odwan hospital, said: "We saw at least 50 houses bulldozed on the edge of Jabaliya and many inside the camp.
"I think most of the bulldozing was to make way for the tanks. There are main roads but the Israelis were afraid to use them because of mines. The bulldozers ... destroyed whatever was in their way - entire streets."
The Israeli army said it had destroyed or damaged a "small number" of homes, either because its soldiers had been attacked or to allow its tanks to avoid booby-trapped roads.
Many people are without water in Beit Hanoun, a town of 15,000 near the border with Israel. Aref Azaneed, a ministry of agriculture inspector, said: "The water and the sewage lines are near each other. When the tanks destroy them, they mix. The water from the tap has sewage in it."
Over the past three years the army has levelled 60% of Beit Hanoun's agricultural land, destroying its wealth and the main source of citrus fruit and olives in the Gaza Strip.
"Nobody comes in, nobody goes out," Mr Azaneed said. "We can only move inside Beit Hanoun, and in a very careful way. There are about 40 tanks about 30 metres from houses close to Salahadin Road."
A UN official said yesterday Israel had wrongly accused Hamas militants of using a UN ambulance to carry rockets, while Israeli officials renewed accusations that Unrwa, the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, was harbouring terrorists, the Associated Press reported.
Israel has demanded the UN investigate the actions of Peter Hansen, its top official in Gaza, after its army released video footage from an unmanned aircraft that reportedly showed militants loading a rocket into a UN vehicle in Gaza.
The UN says the footage shows a worker loading a stretcher into the vehicle. On Monday Mr Hansen wrote to the Israeli foreign minister, Silvan Shalom, accusing Israel of inventing the story.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1319776,00.html
Tuesday October 5, 2004
The Guardian
Israeli forces have demolished the homes of hundreds of Palestinians, bulldozed swaths of agricultural land and destroyed infrastructure in their bloodiest assault on the Gaza Strip in years.
More than 70 people have died in Operation Days of Penitence, launched in northern Gaza six days ago after a Hamas rocket attack killed two Israeli children. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem said that the dead included 31 civilians. Nineteen were under 18.
Most of the nine people killed yesterday were Palestinian fighters, but a teenage girl was among the dead, shot in her home. In southern Gaza Israeli forces killed a four-year-old boy in Khan Yunis refugee camp, where several Palestinian children have been shot dead in recent weeks.
Last night the Israeli army said it had killed a Palestinian gunman who had tried to infiltrate a nearby settlement. Early today an Israeli missile strike in Jabaliya killed one Palestinian militant and wounded two others.
But shielded from view is the suffering of about 50,000 Palestinians trapped in areas seized by hundreds of Israeli troops, backed by about 200 tanks and armoured vehicles.
Palestinians in the Israeli-held areas, including parts of Jabaliya refugee camp and the small town of Beit Hanoun, described by telephone the widespread destruction and desperate living conditions.
Armoured bulldozers had demolished scores, possibly hundreds, of homes, they said. Thousands of people had spent days without electricity and water, although power was restored sporadically yesterday. Residents said that the destruction of sewage systems had contaminated the water supplies in some areas.
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"I can hear shooting now," said Hanna Basyouni, 35, who has seven children, speaking from an occupied section of Jabaliya. "I see the tanks below me. The tanks and the bulldozers are 50 metres away from my home. I can see them shooting right now."
Mrs Basyouni lives on the edge of Jabaliya where, she said, the Israeli army had bulldozed greenhouses that had been families' only source of income for several generations.
The Israeli military says it is clearing a six-mile-wide buffer zone to stop Hamas launching rockets across the border. But yesterday the Islamist group fired two missiles into Israel. "There's not one tree left for as far as I can see," said Mrs Basyouni. "Five or six homes around me are completely bulldozed, and I can't be sure how many beyond that. My sister's home was destroyed ... [She] is living in a tent. She has nine children."
Ambulance drivers, the only Palestinians permitted to cross into the occupied areas, confirmed the scale of the destruction. Abid Ahmed Abu Mohammed, a driver for Kamal Odwan hospital, said: "We saw at least 50 houses bulldozed on the edge of Jabaliya and many inside the camp.
"I think most of the bulldozing was to make way for the tanks. There are main roads but the Israelis were afraid to use them because of mines. The bulldozers ... destroyed whatever was in their way - entire streets."
The Israeli army said it had destroyed or damaged a "small number" of homes, either because its soldiers had been attacked or to allow its tanks to avoid booby-trapped roads.
Many people are without water in Beit Hanoun, a town of 15,000 near the border with Israel. Aref Azaneed, a ministry of agriculture inspector, said: "The water and the sewage lines are near each other. When the tanks destroy them, they mix. The water from the tap has sewage in it."
Over the past three years the army has levelled 60% of Beit Hanoun's agricultural land, destroying its wealth and the main source of citrus fruit and olives in the Gaza Strip.
"Nobody comes in, nobody goes out," Mr Azaneed said. "We can only move inside Beit Hanoun, and in a very careful way. There are about 40 tanks about 30 metres from houses close to Salahadin Road."
A UN official said yesterday Israel had wrongly accused Hamas militants of using a UN ambulance to carry rockets, while Israeli officials renewed accusations that Unrwa, the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, was harbouring terrorists, the Associated Press reported.
Israel has demanded the UN investigate the actions of Peter Hansen, its top official in Gaza, after its army released video footage from an unmanned aircraft that reportedly showed militants loading a rocket into a UN vehicle in Gaza.
The UN says the footage shows a worker loading a stretcher into the vehicle. On Monday Mr Hansen wrote to the Israeli foreign minister, Silvan Shalom, accusing Israel of inventing the story.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1319776,00.html
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Palestine minister condemns silence over Israeli massacre in Gaza
BEIRUT (PL). –This Sunday, Palestine Negotiations Minister Saeb Erekat condemned the international community’s silence regarding the Israeli military operation Days of Penitence, which killed around 70 civilians in the Gaza Strip.
According to the radio station Voice of Palestine, quoted by Erekat, the lack of response from the nations of the world is equivalent to giving the green light to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to continue his heavy-handed policy against the Palestinian population.
Zionist violence will only aggravate the situation in the region and hamper any efforts to implement a peace plan in the Middle East, the official added.
Medical sources, cited by the same radio station, reported that the military operation Days of Penitence, which started last Wednesday, has already killed 68 and injured over 250 people.
Today, Israeli drone combat planes fired missiles that killed three Palestine civilians allegedly involved in the resistance and injured another two citizens in the city of Beit Janun.
In Yabalia, an Israeli tank opened fire on a house, killing two Palestinians and injuring five. Hours earlier, two Palestinian citizens were also slaughtered in this city.
The eighth victim was the target of a missile fired from an Israeli combat helicopter flying over the Yabalia refugee camp.
This Sunday, Israeli soldiers wounded 22 people who were protesting in the village of Beit Awa at the construction of the wall sealing off Palestinian communities.
The Israelis repressed over 400 protestors, included Israeli pacifists, with tear gas and rubber bullets.
The segregationist wall will seize several areas of the Palestinian West Bank, whose population, primarily dedicated to agriculture, will lose 60% of their arable land.
The imposing construction, already 150 kilometers long, is eight meters high with watchtowers every 300 meters, two-meter deep ditches, and barbed wire.
Yasser Arafat, president of the Palestinian National Authority, qualified this work, expressly designed to violate the human rights of the Palestinian people, a crime against humanity.
http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2004/octubre/lun4/41palestine-i.html
BEIRUT (PL). –This Sunday, Palestine Negotiations Minister Saeb Erekat condemned the international community’s silence regarding the Israeli military operation Days of Penitence, which killed around 70 civilians in the Gaza Strip.
According to the radio station Voice of Palestine, quoted by Erekat, the lack of response from the nations of the world is equivalent to giving the green light to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to continue his heavy-handed policy against the Palestinian population.
Zionist violence will only aggravate the situation in the region and hamper any efforts to implement a peace plan in the Middle East, the official added.
Medical sources, cited by the same radio station, reported that the military operation Days of Penitence, which started last Wednesday, has already killed 68 and injured over 250 people.
Today, Israeli drone combat planes fired missiles that killed three Palestine civilians allegedly involved in the resistance and injured another two citizens in the city of Beit Janun.
In Yabalia, an Israeli tank opened fire on a house, killing two Palestinians and injuring five. Hours earlier, two Palestinian citizens were also slaughtered in this city.
The eighth victim was the target of a missile fired from an Israeli combat helicopter flying over the Yabalia refugee camp.
This Sunday, Israeli soldiers wounded 22 people who were protesting in the village of Beit Awa at the construction of the wall sealing off Palestinian communities.
The Israelis repressed over 400 protestors, included Israeli pacifists, with tear gas and rubber bullets.
The segregationist wall will seize several areas of the Palestinian West Bank, whose population, primarily dedicated to agriculture, will lose 60% of their arable land.
The imposing construction, already 150 kilometers long, is eight meters high with watchtowers every 300 meters, two-meter deep ditches, and barbed wire.
Yasser Arafat, president of the Palestinian National Authority, qualified this work, expressly designed to violate the human rights of the Palestinian people, a crime against humanity.
http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2004/octubre/lun4/41palestine-i.html
And why doesn't he condemn the terrorist attacks carried out by Hamas?
Stop the reason for the conflict, there by removing the reason for the deaths on both sides.
Stop Confiscation of Palestinian land.
Stop Demolition of Palestinian homes.
Stop the Uprooting of Palestinian Olive and Fruit trees, there by destroying some Palestinians livelihoods.
Build the wall/fence/barrier on the 1967 border instead of inside the West Bank, depriving the Palestinian people of more of their precious land and resources.
For a Viable Palestinian State we are talking about 22% (Gaza and West Bank) of what is Today Israel, West Bank and Gaza.
Is 22% too much to ask for some 4,000,000 or so Palestinian People who do not enjoy living under occupation and oppression.
That would leave 78% for the 5,000,000 Israelis in Israel Proper.
I am not Anti-Semitic there by I am for Israel existing in its pre 1967 Borders,
but not at the expense of the Palestinian People by taking land in the West Bank or Gaza.
As for killing intentionally. Dropping Bombs from the safety of an Apache helicopter cockpit (how brave) is likely to kill some innocent people.
Before 1948 there was no Israel, after 1948 Israel did not include the West Bank.
So if Israel can become a State in 1948, there is no reason why Palestine cannot become a State today, so that there is a small chance of this never ending conflict to end.
We must look at the Problem as it stands today not as it was in the Ottoman Empire or the Roman Empire or in the Years 2000 BC.
Stop Confiscation of Palestinian land.
Stop Demolition of Palestinian homes.
Stop the Uprooting of Palestinian Olive and Fruit trees, there by destroying some Palestinians livelihoods.
Build the wall/fence/barrier on the 1967 border instead of inside the West Bank, depriving the Palestinian people of more of their precious land and resources.
For a Viable Palestinian State we are talking about 22% (Gaza and West Bank) of what is Today Israel, West Bank and Gaza.
Is 22% too much to ask for some 4,000,000 or so Palestinian People who do not enjoy living under occupation and oppression.
That would leave 78% for the 5,000,000 Israelis in Israel Proper.
I am not Anti-Semitic there by I am for Israel existing in its pre 1967 Borders,
but not at the expense of the Palestinian People by taking land in the West Bank or Gaza.
As for killing intentionally. Dropping Bombs from the safety of an Apache helicopter cockpit (how brave) is likely to kill some innocent people.
Before 1948 there was no Israel, after 1948 Israel did not include the West Bank.
So if Israel can become a State in 1948, there is no reason why Palestine cannot become a State today, so that there is a small chance of this never ending conflict to end.
We must look at the Problem as it stands today not as it was in the Ottoman Empire or the Roman Empire or in the Years 2000 BC.
Once again, you prove your ignorance or dishonesty.
I´ll be kind based on your poor verbal ability and deem you merely ignorant, a circumstance only you can alter.
Arafat, a poor leader of a strong and courageous people, (Semites), is not the issue. Irregardless of whether or not that individual is "correct" enough to satisfy ignorant apologists for that of which they know little, the facts of Israeli policy, which is defined by the UN as well as many professional, academic, and religious leaders within Judaism for what it is, lawless aggression, remain.
As for castigating the innocent for attacking their criminal aggressor at any opportunity and by any means available, apply the concept to yourself and your home, your family.
Are you trying to pretend to us that you would not defend your rights? Can you spell b i g o t ?
No castigation of the Palestinian Arab Semites is called for, it is in fact a surprise and a demonstration of their self control under duress that their justifiable rage has not yet gone to further extremes.
That is probably about to change now though, thanks to the publicly condemned Ariel Sharon and his ilk, who as we all know cannot travel to certain countries since he would immediately be apprehended as the war criminal that he is.
If those who pretend to have such compassion for "Jews" and "Israelis" were so concerned about the safety of these why do they not work to remove the cause of their affliction?
The UN defined outright criminality of the activities of the Israeli regime?
The citizen is responsible for the acts of their representatives and consequently that segment of Israeli population that does not do all in it´s power to halt the crime and thereafter apply judicial consequences upon the guilty is the party that is primarily responsible for the trauma of their daily lives due to their own passive acceptance and support of those policies that create the circumstances they live under.
The great thing about bothering to read and occasionally comment the mouthings of the ignorant and those who choose to defend the racist policies of Zionism is that you make the truth more obvious all the time through your useless attempts to defend the indefensible.
Let me give you a tip.
You might want to be glad that Arafat is still around, because given the worsening conditions of the sorely plagued Palestinian Arab Semites, the next leader is practically guaranteed to be of a stronger, more combative nature.
I´ll be kind based on your poor verbal ability and deem you merely ignorant, a circumstance only you can alter.
Arafat, a poor leader of a strong and courageous people, (Semites), is not the issue. Irregardless of whether or not that individual is "correct" enough to satisfy ignorant apologists for that of which they know little, the facts of Israeli policy, which is defined by the UN as well as many professional, academic, and religious leaders within Judaism for what it is, lawless aggression, remain.
As for castigating the innocent for attacking their criminal aggressor at any opportunity and by any means available, apply the concept to yourself and your home, your family.
Are you trying to pretend to us that you would not defend your rights? Can you spell b i g o t ?
No castigation of the Palestinian Arab Semites is called for, it is in fact a surprise and a demonstration of their self control under duress that their justifiable rage has not yet gone to further extremes.
That is probably about to change now though, thanks to the publicly condemned Ariel Sharon and his ilk, who as we all know cannot travel to certain countries since he would immediately be apprehended as the war criminal that he is.
If those who pretend to have such compassion for "Jews" and "Israelis" were so concerned about the safety of these why do they not work to remove the cause of their affliction?
The UN defined outright criminality of the activities of the Israeli regime?
The citizen is responsible for the acts of their representatives and consequently that segment of Israeli population that does not do all in it´s power to halt the crime and thereafter apply judicial consequences upon the guilty is the party that is primarily responsible for the trauma of their daily lives due to their own passive acceptance and support of those policies that create the circumstances they live under.
The great thing about bothering to read and occasionally comment the mouthings of the ignorant and those who choose to defend the racist policies of Zionism is that you make the truth more obvious all the time through your useless attempts to defend the indefensible.
Let me give you a tip.
You might want to be glad that Arafat is still around, because given the worsening conditions of the sorely plagued Palestinian Arab Semites, the next leader is practically guaranteed to be of a stronger, more combative nature.
ignorant
dishonest
ignorant (again), a circumstance impossible to alter
ignorant apologist of terrorism
racist
supporter of Hamas terrorism
shielded from view is the suffering of about 50,000 Palestinians trapped in areas seized by hundreds of Israeli troops, backed by about 200 tanks and armoured vehicles....Many people are without water in Beit Hanoun, a town of 15,000 near the border with Israel. Aref Azaneed, a ministry of agriculture inspector, said: "The water and the sewage lines are near each other. When the tanks destroy them, they mix. The water from the tap has sewage in it."
Is ethnic cleansing and collective punishment terrorism?
Is ethnic cleansing and collective punishment terrorism?
'Is ethnic cleansing and collective punishment terrorism?'
Nope...if it were ethnic cleansing, the palis would be packin'...
If the terrorists didn't hide among women and children, the innocents wouldn't get in the way of israel's defensive moves...
Either way, the BLOODY intifada is over, the Usual Suspecrs lost...once again
Nope...if it were ethnic cleansing, the palis would be packin'...
If the terrorists didn't hide among women and children, the innocents wouldn't get in the way of israel's defensive moves...
Either way, the BLOODY intifada is over, the Usual Suspecrs lost...once again
"If the terrorists didn't hide among women and children, the innocents wouldn't get in the way of israel's defensive moves... "
Wow, thats almost word for word Milosevic's excuse for Bosnia (he used the presence of Al Qaeda as a defense during his trial). Its also not so different from the logic behind Darfur. The South contains seperatist rebels therefore collective punishment is ok since its hard to distinguish combatants. Since the combatants are from a given ethnic group and live in the community this makes it so they are "hiding" behind civilians. How would they not be hiding behind civilians? If the militants all gathered out in the open and let themselves get mowed down and never went home to their families?
Its amazing that during the worst attrocities self-righteous assholes can always justify what their side is doing by dehumanizing the enemy. "Those muslims hide behind women and children" therefore its ok that we occupy their land, give them no say in their government, and now raid with hundreds of tanks cutting off supplies of fresh water, bulldozing civilians houses to create buffer zoens and generaly acting as if Palestinian lives dont matter and all that one or two Israelis who might get killed in a cross border rocket attack are worth more than a million people living in virtual slavery.Tthe Israeli government is openly talking about punishing the population so they force Hamas to stop attacks; this is almost by definiton "collective punishment" and a war crime.
Hamas attacks in Israel were also collective punishment with a similar logic to Israel's current raid. But two war crimes do not make a right and the crime going on at this moment could be stopped if the international community really cared about preventing human suffering.
Wow, thats almost word for word Milosevic's excuse for Bosnia (he used the presence of Al Qaeda as a defense during his trial). Its also not so different from the logic behind Darfur. The South contains seperatist rebels therefore collective punishment is ok since its hard to distinguish combatants. Since the combatants are from a given ethnic group and live in the community this makes it so they are "hiding" behind civilians. How would they not be hiding behind civilians? If the militants all gathered out in the open and let themselves get mowed down and never went home to their families?
Its amazing that during the worst attrocities self-righteous assholes can always justify what their side is doing by dehumanizing the enemy. "Those muslims hide behind women and children" therefore its ok that we occupy their land, give them no say in their government, and now raid with hundreds of tanks cutting off supplies of fresh water, bulldozing civilians houses to create buffer zoens and generaly acting as if Palestinian lives dont matter and all that one or two Israelis who might get killed in a cross border rocket attack are worth more than a million people living in virtual slavery.Tthe Israeli government is openly talking about punishing the population so they force Hamas to stop attacks; this is almost by definiton "collective punishment" and a war crime.
Hamas attacks in Israel were also collective punishment with a similar logic to Israel's current raid. But two war crimes do not make a right and the crime going on at this moment could be stopped if the international community really cared about preventing human suffering.
Rafah, Gaza Strip - Israeli soldiers shot dead a 13-year-old Palestinian schoolgirl in the southern Gaza Strip on Tuesday after she approached an army watchtower in a tense border zone, witnesses said.
An Israeli military source said the girl was shot inside a restricted area when soldiers suspected she had a bomb. Palestinian medics said she had been hit by 20 bullets.
Iman al-Hams and two other girls, all of them wearing school uniforms, passed a watchtower in Rafah refugee camp near the Egyptian border, a scene of frequent violence in a 4-year-old uprising, Palestinian witnesses said.
"Israeli soldiers stormed the area, the girl left the bag and tried to run," said one. "Bullets hit the bag and then soldiers opened fire on the girl."
Read More
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw1096970580542B253
An Israeli military source said the girl was shot inside a restricted area when soldiers suspected she had a bomb. Palestinian medics said she had been hit by 20 bullets.
Iman al-Hams and two other girls, all of them wearing school uniforms, passed a watchtower in Rafah refugee camp near the Egyptian border, a scene of frequent violence in a 4-year-old uprising, Palestinian witnesses said.
"Israeli soldiers stormed the area, the girl left the bag and tried to run," said one. "Bullets hit the bag and then soldiers opened fire on the girl."
Read More
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw1096970580542B253
1951-1957 (before the "occupation").
967 Israelis were murdered by Arab terrorists inside the 1949 borders.
The PLO killed civilians, hijacked planes and served the Soviet Union's interests in the Middle East.
The PLO threatned king Hussein of Jordan to take him off the throne. So he ordered the killing of several thousand "Palestines".
1965-1982, Israel:
The PLO murdered in terrorists attacks 1,392 people and wounded and mutilitated 6,237.
In the early 1980s Arafat settled in Lebanon along with his followers. His aim was to attack Israel from there more effectively and also alter the balance in the area pushing it to revolution and Islamism.
The PLO committed terrorist attacks in Lebanon. And they killed President Bashir Gemayel. That murder made peace in Lebanon imposible.
Lebanon has become the battle field chosen by the terrorists to fight against Israel and to exterminate the Christians in the Middle East.
In fact,out of the 600,000-900,000 Lebaness forced to abandon their country, over one half were Christian.
By the end of the war, over 15,000 terrorists had been expelled. Terrorists who had carried out looting, rapes and killing of Christian civilians, such as that in Damur, in which the PLO killed some 500 people, or in Shuf.
' Wow, thats almost word for word Milosevic's excuse for Bosnia (he used the presence of Al Qaeda as a defense during his trial).'
Yugoslavia was under assault by islamic terrorists-Milosevic was right!...NATO took the wrong side in that fight, by destroying Yugoslavia (Hitler's dream) and creating another moslem hellhole at the doorstep of Europe.
Yugoslavia was under assault by islamic terrorists-Milosevic was right!...NATO took the wrong side in that fight, by destroying Yugoslavia (Hitler's dream) and creating another moslem hellhole at the doorstep of Europe.
' Wow, thats almost word for word Milosevic's excuse for Bosnia (he used the presence of Al Qaeda as a defense during his trial).'
Yugoslavia was under assault by islamic terrorists-Milosevic was right!...NATO took the wrong side in that fight, by destroying Yugoslavia (Hitler's dream) and creating another moslem hellhole at the doorstep of Europe.
Yugoslavia was under assault by islamic terrorists-Milosevic was right!...NATO took the wrong side in that fight, by destroying Yugoslavia (Hitler's dream) and creating another moslem hellhole at the doorstep of Europe.
So do most supporters of Israel who post to this site like Milosevic and what he did to Muslims? I'm guessing this is just one person's view but it would be interesting to hear what the other Israel supporters who post to this site think. If there is a threat to Israeli civlians by Hamas rockets and lets say at most dozen people could die in the next year from those attacks, how large an operation and how many deaths are justifiable to stop this? 100, 1000, as many as it takes as long as those dying are not Israelis? If during these operations a tens of thosands will be cut off from hospitals, electricty or even clean water, does this matter? Rwanda happened because of a conflict that in ites beginning stages was no clearly one sided. A disproportionate response that includes mass collective punishment should make those who care about human suffering say "Never Again"; the number of dead is not as high as in Bosnia or Rwanda or Darfur but the suffering in the Gaza and the West Bank is getting worse and has been going on for decades .
'So do most supporters of Israel who post to this site like Milosevic and what he did to Muslims?'
Nobody is innocent in that dog fight...
Last month, the moslems in Kosovo went wild and burned 100 churches to the ground...the UN didn't just stand by, they backed off and let the moslems party...
Nobody is innocent in that dog fight...
Last month, the moslems in Kosovo went wild and burned 100 churches to the ground...the UN didn't just stand by, they backed off and let the moslems party...
>>>"So do most supporters of Israel who post to this site like Milosevic and what he did to Muslims?"<<<
My answer is in the negative for what it's worth.
>>>"If there is a threat to Israeli civlians by Hamas rockets and lets say at most dozen people could die in the next year from those attacks, how large an operation and how many deaths are justifiable to stop this? 100, 1000, as many as it takes as long as those dying are not Israelis?"<<<
It's high time you and other pro-Palestinian follks used a paradigm shift and tried to view it from a different perspective: most countries facing Israel's plight would cast Israel's moral considerations out the window and resort to carpet bombing, indiscriminate artillery shelling and naval bombardment of the northern Gaza strip, setting the Palestinian casualties in the range of hundreds early on during the operation.
Since Jabalia is thought by some to be the densest area in the world and given the cowardly practice by the Palestinian terrorists to place themselves amidst non-combatants, the guiding principle of Israeli military though concerning the present operation in northern Gaza seems to be that the Qassam rockets must be pushed away of hitting range from locations of residence within Israel proper. Therefore, if a Qassam if fired right from the smack middle og Jabalia, the attempt to preempt that Qassam or retaliate in the immediate aftermath would be likely to entail incurring more non-combatant casualties than Israel usually feels it can live with. This humanitarian calculation also helps illuminate why official Israel has yet to even seriously dither over the idea of a "Defensive Shield 2" operation *within the Gaza strip*, as opposed to the successful mid '02 operation within Judea-Samaria.
>>>" If during these operations a tens of thosands will be cut off from hospitals, electricty or even clean water, does this matter?"<<<
See above.
>>>"...the number of dead is not as high as in Bosnia or Rwanda or Darfur but the suffering in the Gaza and the West Bank is getting worse and has been going on for decades ."<<<
Blaming all or most of the hardship on Israel won't advance your cause of assisting the Palestinian masses. But if a critical mass of public opinion starts blaming both secular and religious Palestinian leadership, not necessarily out of default but rather as a result of rational analysis, then the attempt to help non-combatant Palestinians would stand a far greater chance of getting transformed into actual foreign policy. Current US foreign policy on the matter is rather obtuse and illogical -- shunning Arafat, demanding reforms and the introduction of democracy on the one hand, while continuing to pour millions of dollars allegedly for relief and other forms of aid that actually get siphoned off by Arafat both into his "secret" personal bank account and for weapon acquirement.
My answer is in the negative for what it's worth.
>>>"If there is a threat to Israeli civlians by Hamas rockets and lets say at most dozen people could die in the next year from those attacks, how large an operation and how many deaths are justifiable to stop this? 100, 1000, as many as it takes as long as those dying are not Israelis?"<<<
It's high time you and other pro-Palestinian follks used a paradigm shift and tried to view it from a different perspective: most countries facing Israel's plight would cast Israel's moral considerations out the window and resort to carpet bombing, indiscriminate artillery shelling and naval bombardment of the northern Gaza strip, setting the Palestinian casualties in the range of hundreds early on during the operation.
Since Jabalia is thought by some to be the densest area in the world and given the cowardly practice by the Palestinian terrorists to place themselves amidst non-combatants, the guiding principle of Israeli military though concerning the present operation in northern Gaza seems to be that the Qassam rockets must be pushed away of hitting range from locations of residence within Israel proper. Therefore, if a Qassam if fired right from the smack middle og Jabalia, the attempt to preempt that Qassam or retaliate in the immediate aftermath would be likely to entail incurring more non-combatant casualties than Israel usually feels it can live with. This humanitarian calculation also helps illuminate why official Israel has yet to even seriously dither over the idea of a "Defensive Shield 2" operation *within the Gaza strip*, as opposed to the successful mid '02 operation within Judea-Samaria.
>>>" If during these operations a tens of thosands will be cut off from hospitals, electricty or even clean water, does this matter?"<<<
See above.
>>>"...the number of dead is not as high as in Bosnia or Rwanda or Darfur but the suffering in the Gaza and the West Bank is getting worse and has been going on for decades ."<<<
Blaming all or most of the hardship on Israel won't advance your cause of assisting the Palestinian masses. But if a critical mass of public opinion starts blaming both secular and religious Palestinian leadership, not necessarily out of default but rather as a result of rational analysis, then the attempt to help non-combatant Palestinians would stand a far greater chance of getting transformed into actual foreign policy. Current US foreign policy on the matter is rather obtuse and illogical -- shunning Arafat, demanding reforms and the introduction of democracy on the one hand, while continuing to pour millions of dollars allegedly for relief and other forms of aid that actually get siphoned off by Arafat both into his "secret" personal bank account and for weapon acquirement.
The Israeli soldiers shot once. Then the girl left the bag and run. At that moment some terrorists appeared and started shooting at the Israeli soldiers,who shot back. That was crossed fire. The Israeli soldiers didn't shoot at that girl, but at the terrorists.
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Israel's deadly offensive in northern Gaza has entered its second week with the government vowing to press on and a leading aide to Ariel Sharon saying the violence is designed to ruin peace efforts.
As the invasion continued on Wednesday, an Israeli helicopter gunship fired two rockets on a metal workshop in the Jabalya area, lightly wounding two people, witnesses said.
Two fighters of the largest resistance group, Hamas, were shot dead by Israeli troops as they attempted to infiltrate the Kfar Darom Jewish settlement in the southern Gaza Strip. A third fighter died when an explosive charge he was carrying went off prematurely.
A Thai migrant labourer employed on the settlement died during exchanges of fire between the Palestinians and Israeli troops.
Earlier, medics said three Palestinians were killed in Israeli tank strikes in the northern Gaza Strip overnight. Twenty Palestinians were reported wounded, two of them young women who were said to be in serious condition.
The deaths brought to 88 the number of Palestinians killed since the army launched its offensive against the northern Gaza Strip on 28 September.
Defiance
But Hamas remained defiant on Wednesday, warning it would "continue and increase rocket firing" on Israel" and would "not stop launching rockets even if Israel leaves the northern Gaza Strip".
"The resistance will not stop and, whether it wants to or not, the enemy will have to leave northern Gaza under rocket fire," masked fighters from Hamas' military wing - the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades - told reporters in the town of Bait Lahya.
Read More
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/3D7BD5E1-0CC1-43E1-8C34-E10B310FE96A.htm
As the invasion continued on Wednesday, an Israeli helicopter gunship fired two rockets on a metal workshop in the Jabalya area, lightly wounding two people, witnesses said.
Two fighters of the largest resistance group, Hamas, were shot dead by Israeli troops as they attempted to infiltrate the Kfar Darom Jewish settlement in the southern Gaza Strip. A third fighter died when an explosive charge he was carrying went off prematurely.
A Thai migrant labourer employed on the settlement died during exchanges of fire between the Palestinians and Israeli troops.
Earlier, medics said three Palestinians were killed in Israeli tank strikes in the northern Gaza Strip overnight. Twenty Palestinians were reported wounded, two of them young women who were said to be in serious condition.
The deaths brought to 88 the number of Palestinians killed since the army launched its offensive against the northern Gaza Strip on 28 September.
Defiance
But Hamas remained defiant on Wednesday, warning it would "continue and increase rocket firing" on Israel" and would "not stop launching rockets even if Israel leaves the northern Gaza Strip".
"The resistance will not stop and, whether it wants to or not, the enemy will have to leave northern Gaza under rocket fire," masked fighters from Hamas' military wing - the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades - told reporters in the town of Bait Lahya.
Read More
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/3D7BD5E1-0CC1-43E1-8C34-E10B310FE96A.htm
Please why don't you explain the reason why Israel invaded that part of Gaza?
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