Bill Clinton coming to berkeley, next week

my problem is that the past leader of the colonialist capitalist empire, should not be welcomed, invited, sucked off, or given free travel here in the Bay Area. It is not like Clinton is some shinning example of the best that america is and stands for, screw you, you liberal scum.

Screw Bill Clinton. The man is a war criminal. He killed more people than Bush.

Screw liberals, too. They're the Judas goats of fascism.

please, please tell us the when and where. let's heckle the killer. may him think about coming back. bush hasn't been to sf or the east bay. hope he, nor clinton never do.

I remember when clinton came to 24th and mission in 1992 when he was running for president the first time around. a bunch of us radicals went out to jeer and cat-call and had a good ol' time. Never before had i so many angry liberals--i'd grown accustomed to them being basically worthless as political actors, but i had never had the privilege of seeing them get so impassioned about "their man." it was entertaining watching them get their panties in a bind at the sight of radicals who didn't think allowing gays the right to kill and die for american capitalism was some great gift to humanity. pointing out to them that clinton wanted to gut welfare, supported the death penalty, sought to extend corporate america's power via NAFTA etc etc was a complete waste of time. after all, like today's liberal fools, their mantra was "Anybody But Bush."

let's greet clinton as he deserves to be greeted.

Don't do it. You'd get the death sentence.

Let the guy sign his books. He's no saint but you've got to be kidding to say he's worse than Bush 1 or 2.

hey all you clinton lovers:

The lesser of 2 evils IS STILL EVIL!.

Clinton has blood aplenty on his hands. Why excuse it away by saying the Bushes have more. Tyrants are tyrants, regardless if other tyrants are just a couple degrees worse.

hey all you clinton lovers:

The lesser of 2 evils IS STILL EVIL!.

Clinton has blood aplenty on his hands. Why excuse it away by saying the Bushes have more. Tyrants are tyrants, regardless if other tyrants are just a couple degrees worse.

I'm not a fan of Clinton and think he pushed the US to the right on certain issues (death penalty, welfare etc..). His foreign policy killed many innocent people in Iraq, Serbia and other places. Clinton or Gore would have both engaged in wars after 9/11 and they may have even engaged in a war in Iraq.

But I dont like the use of the word evil. Its a religious term not just an opinion. It also creates an atmosphere where people think that its just a matter of getting the evil people out of office. Put a Nader or a Chomsky in the same position and one might find a similar set of policies being settled upon. It makes people assume that a war is about Cheney's greed or Clinton playing "wag the dog" when its unlikely that those were real factors in the actual conflicts. Did Cheney help push for a war in Iraq because he wanted to free Iraq, find WMD or other things Bush stated? Obvioulsy not. Did he push for a war because he wanted the US to exploit Iraqis oil, avenge Bush Sr or other reasons tied to personal greed? Probably not. In his heart he most likely believed in neoliberalism and that by impossing a free market system Iraqis would become like middle class Americans and that this would make both the region and the US richer. One can say that such views are based of racism, classism etc... (and were out of touch with reality) but one shouldnt say that such views are evil. If evil existed it would be a lot easier to change the world since once people saw through the spin it would be obvious which side to support. The belief in evil by the Right makes many believe that "they hate our freedom" is the way to interpret the WTC attacks. Horrible things happen but in most cases those supporting them or carrying them out have an ideology that somehow justifies the actions. Calling ideologies evil oversimplifies most ideologies to the point where people always tend to argue against straw men rather than the real views of those they disagree with.

One shouldnt say Clinton is less evil than Bush, just that you disagree with him less than you disagree with Bush. One may pragmatically vote for Kerry in the next elections if one believes that the world under him will look more to ones liking (or less to ones disliking) than a world with Bush as President. While people criticize "voting for a lesser evil" people engage in this type of behavior every day; consumer boycotts of particularly bad companies is "voting for a lesser evil" as are most actions one takes where one takes one morality into ones choice of actions.

For leftists to promote Kerry (or Dean or Kuchinich) isn't bad because of the "lesser evil" argument. Its bad because its bad to promote one person and spin this to be a solution to societies problems. Carrying a Kerry or Dean sign is promoting the contined occupation of Iraq, whereas not overselling them but still voting Bush out might make the US a little more livable and wont get in the way of fighting Kerry on Iraq, the death penalty, gay marriage etc... once he gets in office. Perhaps it will be easier to fight against Bush on these issues since hes an easier figure to organize against, but thats still a pragmatic argument for not voting rather than one where one is trying to avoid the taint of evil by not voting.

let me make this clear:

I hate clinton equally with BOTH bushes. I think clinton's no less contemptable. same with nader, kuccinich, dean, clark, et al. I hate them all EQUALLY!

and if you haven't figured it out alread, NO I DON'T VOTE for anyone, evil or good.

Its easier to fight against a person or idea if you dont hate them and work to understand where they are comming from. Machiavelli and Sun Tzu both advised to "know your enemy" which is pretty hard if one is blinded by hate. Movements based off simplistic views of evil enemies grow quickly (since its easy to come up with slogans and easy to understand messages) but usually self-destruct when cognitive dissonance kicks in.

I periodically listen to kpfa, just to get the liberal perspective and it is better than howard stern sometimes, lol. But I love both their anti Nader bleeding gums liberals, who blame Nader for Gore/Lieberman! failure, and the leftist revisionist history. There has been this creeping white wash of Bill Clin ton, "an outsider", "a feminist", "the peoples' advocate", "the humanatarian", "a good musician", and the gay ally who gave "the gays for war, or war for the gays".
Whatever, he was a wanker, that is it, people lapped up the supposed glory days, while his policy killed people both at home and abroad. Laying the ground work in policy for all the wonderful things that Bush has done. Look at his record, he like other demos only work for big business. period. Kinder gentler colonialism, not an occupation. I went to skool in the 90s and I cannot even spell, that is fucked for sure. thanks bill

He killed more Iraqis.

O,K. dipshit, keep turning the other cheek and loving your enemy and you'll get and A+ on your Sun Tzu and Machiavelli exams in college. and you're sure to get a great job in personell and be on junior executive track. just visualize the corner office, the timeshare condo at tahoe and that shinny brand-new SUV.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?R128115A8

(snip)

I will love everyone
I will love the police as they kick the shit out of me on the street

(snip)

when bill clinton was asked by mr. rather why he let monica fondle him, he replied: 'because he could'.

rather's followup question could have been: why he began a bombing campaign on the same day the star report was to hit the news-stands, was it to provide the papers something else to report on other than his personal trangresions?

did he start that war, since he could???

Clinton has the blood of American victims from the first WTC bombing, the Waco disaster, and Oklahoma City fiasco. Let's not forget the downing of Flight 800 over Long Island, N.Y. nor the Atlanta '96 Olympics bombings! Federal government complicity in and cover-up of all these capital crimes on U.S. soil while on President Bill Clinton's watch. Clinton continued
the war crimes of his predecessors and should have been
impeached, convicted, and imprisoned for these heinous crimes against humanity and the American people. He laid the perfect groundwork for the burgeoning American police
state we now live under! Democrats and Republicans are one
and the same! Don't support either!

after the '91 coup when Aristide was finally returned to office after years in exile, Clinton looked like the hero..

would this be similar to Kerry cleaning up Bush's mistakes in Iraq by continuing occupation and trade sanctions?

anyway when Aristide was returned to office as President of Haiti, his hands were tied (no unions, no local rice farmer collective)by globalization "free trade" policies and sanctions from the NAFTA and WTO trade agreements Clinton signed so quietly while the media watched Monica Lewinsky's every move..

How sly to distract people with real life hound dog Republicans chasing "Poor Billy" around his own personal bedroom!!

The boring news about the WTO and NAFTA signings were buried behind Monica. How nice for the multinational corporations that benefit from WTO globalization (silently aided by CIA coups and paramilitary junta genocide) that Clinton was a "ladies man"..

clinton. this piece of shit comes to berkeley to sign his new fluff book, written by some ghost writer hack no doubt, and smile at the cameras. and wave to the disgusting crowd.

so i go there to talk some politics. he's a politician, right?

apparently not. my union organizer friend with a bullhorn got booed by the crowd, harassed, and people threw things at him, because he was out there asking difficult questions about clinton's policies and foreign aggressions.

i went and asked one guy throwing gravel at the man with the bullhorn why he thinks he gets to throw things at people for speaking. he presses his nose against my face while yelling "get out of my face, or else." after i make it clear to him that i'm not going anywhere, a few minutes later and once i'm in a conversation with someone else, he shouts at my friend with the bullhorn, then yells at me to "shut up, you pink haired faggot!" gotta love those lgbt-friendly democrats, eh?

i actually saw clin-ton (was he kang or kodos?) for a few minutes. i kept yelling simple questions, like "hey bill, does your book talk about all those thousands of iraqi kids you killed? how about how you still support the gulf war? hey bill, does your book talk about the time you bombed the factory producing half the medicine for the sudan with no evidence it was anything else? hey bill, does your book talk about how you slashed welfare to build prisons?"

all these people around me kept yelling "shut up, bitch!" at me, with no coherent argument why i should shut up, or why they should still be cheering for a war criminal who tapped everyone's phone. i asked them for one. the best any of them could muster was that they thought i was a white man. bill is what now? (and don't even make me school you on genderqueer in front of an ex-prez)

also, an undercover cop/secret service type guy came and stood with his body half turned toward me, pressing against me, in between me and the ex-prez. like if i was going to do something stupid, i would start out with shouting a bunch of polite policy questions.

oh yeah, and some vapid fashionista/hipster girl told me, "it's not even about politics, he's just such a dreamboat!"

he looked like any other politician robot to me.

moral:

political questioner = "faggot" and/or "oppressor"
child killing president = "dreamboat"