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The connection between Protest Warriors and FreeRepublic
by Anonymous
Sunday Jun 13th, 2004 1:09 PM
FreeRepublic alliance with Protest Warrior group.
As some may know Protest Warriors are the group which works to disrupt anti-war protests, rallys and other functions by the social change community. This may be of interest to those who are curious who is backing and encouraging Protest Warrior's efforts, and is documentation that some FreeRepublic members are also members of the Protest Warrior group:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1152686/posts
by it's a fact
Sunday Jun 13th, 2004 1:19 PM
I got first hand confirmation that the Jewish Community Relations organization helped to facilitate and in fact joined in with the Protest Warriors from someone who met with them in a meeting before the march. On top of that we saw the two busses the Protest Warriors came in parked outside the Jewish Community Relations organization on Steuart Street. On top of that-- just take a look at many of the Protest Warriors. Some of them are definately Jewish, you can tell by the way they look. After all, they are an ethnicity. Some Jews just look like Jews. Just like some Irish people look like Irish people. Anyone who has an eye for ethnicity can tell.
by ?
Sunday Jun 13th, 2004 1:32 PM
" Some of them are definately Jewish, you can tell by the way they look."

What the hell does that mean. A large percentage of anti-war protesters are Jewish too... is that a bad thing?

Protest Warriors are tied to right-wing groups that historically have been ANTI_SEMITIC since they were fundamentalist Christians who believed anyone who wasnt a WASP was going to hell.

by Anon
Sunday Jun 13th, 2004 2:21 PM
From FreeRepublic:


EMERGENCY PROTEST!! HELP NEEDED IN SAN FRANCISCO!! PRO-ISRAEL SUPPORTERS NEEDED!
Protest Warriors | 3/23/2004 | Todd


Posted on 03/23/2004 8:37:09 PM PST by bgcountry187


I just got an email notifying me of a protest against Israel's recent actions killing the Hamas founder. Pro Israel supporters are going to counter this protest. I will post more info as I get it but here is a copy of the email I got. Anybody who can show up to support Israel and their actions to protect their citizens will be appreciated. Protest Warriors can use the freepers help on this one. Here is the email I got:

I just got an e-mail about this. I cannot make it. Perhaps some of you can.....

Here is their notice:

\"Action Alert: EMERGENCY PROTEST AND RALLY WEDNESDAY, MARCH 24, 4:00 PM

Join the Bay Area Arab and Muslim Community, along with other organizations, in an Emergency Protest in front of the Israeli Consulate at Montgomery Street in Downtown SF.

Protest the cold-blooded murder by the Israeli army of Shaykh Ahmad Yassin and the continued assault on the unarmed Palestinian civilian population.

Stop Israeli state terrorism! No to Apartheid! Stop US Funding to Israel Now! A free Palestine is a reality awaiting actualization!\"


by They Help Us More Than They Hurt Us
Sunday Jun 13th, 2004 4:07 PM
There is a difference between being cool and being effective. There is a difference between working to impress people who agree with you and working to change things.

The Protest Warriors' actions make them cool, but help the Left far more than the Right. I'm sure most right-wingers love seeing that there were people who showed up with signs making fun of the anti-war protesters. But thats the only real audience that the Protest Warriors aim to impress. Their goal is to get a mention on Rush or Savage. They want recognition from the cool people in their scene but they really are not fighting the Left as much fighting for recognition from other right-wingers.

Part of the shift in the US that resulted in Reagan getting elected was due to associations in the public mind between radicals and wingnuts who believe in crazed conspiracy theories. This was partly pushed on the public by those who disliked the left, but it also resulted from direct interactions people had with the more fringe people on the Left.

Luckilly these days the image of the right has outcompeted the radical left in terms of craziness. First there was the sterotyped militia member who believed in a UN conspiracy to take over the US with black helicopters. Now there is Savage Nation and Protest Warriors. When you thing of right-wingers you no longer think of stuffy rich intellectuals like William F. Buckley Jr. You no longer even think of the paternalistic father figure that Reagan acted to get his majority. Now you think of bombastic insecure windbags like Rush and irritating people who who show up at other people's events with snide signs.
by Brian
Sunday Jun 13th, 2004 11:11 PM
Quote:
Now you think of bombastic insecure windbags like Rush and irritating people who who show up at other people's events with snide signs.


Reply:
Insecure? I do see your insecurity in calling names. Please grow up. What is truely funny about this whole left vs. right is that when PW's show up at a lefty rally, the lefties get irate. They attack the PW's, grab their signs, atempt to cover them up, and on a few occasions, tear up the PW's signs. Please explain to me why these rude lefties have the right to free speech but the right's don't? I just don't understand that. That would be like me telling you "you don't have the right to post here!". You wouldn't like that would you? Guess this makes me a windag huh? One more thing, I have posted this before however I see that it fits this discusion perfectly.

This is truely sad. I understand that war is not right. I understand war leads to the death of many. I understand it's scary. However, I also understand that sometimes it is necessary. What would our life be like had we not fought for our freedom in the American revolution? What would our life be like had we not had a Civil War? You people cry and complain because we are at war...but I'm sure you would cry and complain if we were attacked again but did nothing. Perhaps we should all go hug a tree and invite terrorists over for dinner? Seriously folks, what would you do if you were out with your family and someone attacked your children...would you just sit there, let it happen, and let the person run away? Or would you defend your family? Let's say your local government decides to make a law that says if you aren't jewish you aren't allowed in the city. Yes, I know we have laws that prevent this. But lets say judges decide to ignore that law like some are ignoring same sex marrage laws. Would you just pack up and leave? Or would you fight for your freedom? I'm going to assume you would fight for your freedom. Right now our soldiers are fighting for the freedom of Iraqi(sp) people. They are also fighting for our freedom. There are people out there that don't like us for our freedom. They don't like the fact that you have the right to sit here and complain, and they are willing to kill you and I for it. So while you sit here and cry and complain against a war that is trying to help an oppresed people, remeber there are men and women dying for your right to cry and complain.

As for the idiots that want to resort to violence to get their point across. Well, that's just stupid. That makes you no better than the people we are fighting. Grow up, get an education, and get envolved the right way. I'm tired of seeing my nation split apart by words like left wing/right wing. We are one nation, under one God, created to give us a freedom that most people in the rest of the world may never know. There is no more African American, Chinese American, Mexican American, Caucasian, from now on it is American. Open your eyes and see this. Quit fighting amongst yourselves. Support our troops, Support our nation, Support freedom!

by just wondering
Sunday Jun 13th, 2004 11:51 PM
>Part of the shift in the US that resulted in Reagan getting elected was due to associations in the public mind between radicals and wingnuts who believe in crazed conspiracy theories.

You mean conspiracy theories like the ones about Reagan’s regime trading arms for hostages, and financing the counter revolution in Nicaragua by selling cocaine?
by BMB
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 1:24 AM
actually the protest warriors are doing more than "trying to impress their friends." The point they make is that the left claims to be "civil and tolerant" but as soon as you disagree with them they react in quite the opposite manner. Put it this way: if the tables were turned and it was the left having thieir signs blocked and torn up and told to leave, they would cry "censorship" and claim that the right wasn't being "tolerant."
by what's the point
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 7:12 AM
"The point they make is that the left claims to be "civil and tolerant" but as soon as you disagree with them they react in quite the opposite manner"

Who are Protest Warriors trying to make this point too? They may be making the point you mention to themselves and other right-wingers (who view their site) but thats about it. They may think that they are not doing this to impress their friends but ultimately thats the only real audience. Anti-war protesters themselves also carry signs that reflect an internal audience (funny joke signs about Bush..) but there is also a media audience that covers the crowd count.

Protest ralies are very similar to sports rallies; the goal mainly being to rally one's own side and raise morale among one's own supporters. Protest Warriors are similar to those obnoxious fans who purposefully show up among supporters of the opposing side with as denigrating signs as they can find. Comming up with signs attacking the opposing team and shoving it in their faces at one level shows that one hates the other side more than one really supports one's own, but its also a sophomoric attempt to impress one's own side with a misguided attempt to look brave (people threaten to beat up opposing team fans who get in their faces and people threaten to beat up protest warriors but its really just hyperbolic taunting one would expect in any rivalry).

There isnt any real element of free speech that enters into what Protest Warriors do. Protest Warriors have a "right" to carry their signs and rally on public property, but protest organizers who have paid to reserve public property for private use have a right to exclude anyone they want from the public spaces they have paid for. Even with unpermitted rallies forcing one's way into someone else's space isnt a right. Public parks can be used by anyone but that doesnt mean you have the right to shove your way into the middle of a picnic and sit between members of a group you dislike (or don't know) that is clearly using a picnic table. People may be irritated by Protest Warriors and prevent them from pushing their way into the middle of marchs or crowds but nobody is denying their right to hold their signs and make whatever pint they are trying to make (if there is one).

From a standpoint of political effectiveness, the Protest Warriors do promulgate the new Rush/Savage/"angry white man" view of the Right thats starting to be the common view of the public towards the right. The stereotyped liberal that allowed the right to gain power in the early 80s was new agey, prone to conspiracy theories, .... Reagan used this stereotype to rally a base that wasn't the traditional upper-class Republican base (some of it was the religious right and some was non-union workingclass); the Republicans didnt do this by presenting ideas, it did this by playing the workingclass against the image of stuffy or new agey liberals. But the image of the everyman Republic that proved so useful in the 80s has now been taken to an extreme that is bound to alienate a majority of the population. While people may listen to people like Rush or Savage and some may agree with them, its hard to get around the fact that they are are trying to be obnoxious (in a similar way to someone like Howard Stern). If the right can be boxed in to its new found image and people come to see them as obnoxious crass jerks, they can be safely isolated as a fringe with no pull on the majority public.
by hockeyfreak
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 7:47 AM
Have any of you actually taken the time to find out anything truthful about us? The Protest Warriors I have gone to your marches with calmly walk into the march only to be assaulted and harassed instead of debated intelligently. We have filmed the abuse of us at every march we have attended and you still lie about us here.

Watch the Eagle Strike and Wolverines videos and see first hand what we deal with when we show up at your "marches". You claim tolerance, yet attack us. We should have no problems marching with you in a country such as America. You say descent is the American way. Well, so do we. We don't agree with your position therefore we have every right to march right along side you and protest you.
by hehe
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 11:29 AM
"Eagle Strike and Wolverines"

And these people expect people to take them seriously. Does it have Ashcroft singing "The Eagle Soars" ( http://www.celticguitarmusic.com/Mland_%20Ashcroft_sings.htm ) as a soundtrack? If you push the loony act a little further I bet you could get people to buy your videos out of the entertainment value of seeing crazy right-wingers acting stupid.

I often think that David Horrowitz never really changed political sides since the easiest way to help build a movement is to create such easy to dismiss opponents who can help to gell people's political ideas ("I used to be unsure about the war but after seeing that 'UNAmerican: We Brought You Into The World So We Can Take You Out" sign I realized how dangerous this trend towards unilateralism really is") It mainly helps to move centrist people into becoming center left, but you have to start somewhere. The Horrowitz method of organizing is a long term comittment with amazing results; as long as you dont require friendship of the movement and are willing to be hated by the broader people you support, setting yourself up as a villian and playing devil's advocate through the press is an amazingly effective way to get people off their asses and onto the streets organizing.
by hehe
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 11:43 AM
Listen now:
Copy the code below to embed this audio into a web page:
Here is John Ashcroft singing "Blessed Be That City" (downloaded from http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ashpic1.html ). He's got a pretty good voice. If the Protest Wariors are unwilling to use John on the soundtrack for their video, a film featuring them, the Reverend Phelps people, and various other right-wing groups that show up as counterprotesters all to the music of John Ashcroft would make for a video I would be willing to buy.
by hockeyfreak
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 12:08 PM
Exactly, you don't research that which you hate and then still spew rhetoric about it. The left is tolerant of the left and not anyone else. Thanks for proving our fight right, its the right fight.
by Ashcroft
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 12:11 PM
http://www.symbolman.com/corpabuse.html
(it should play when you look at the page)
by Brian
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 12:22 PM
Quote:
Protest ralies are very similar to sports rallies; the goal mainly being to rally one's own side and raise morale among one's own supporters.

Reply:
Not sure what world you are from, but the point of these ralies are to raise awareness. To attract attention to your cause.

Quote:
Who are Protest Warriors trying to make this point too? They may be making the point you mention to themselves and other right-wingers (who view their site) but thats about it. They may think that they are not doing this to impress their friends but ultimately thats the only real audience. Anti-war protesters themselves also carry signs that reflect an internal audience (funny joke signs about Bush..) but there is also a media audience that covers the crowd count.

Reply:
Actualy, the audience is you. It's the people that are against freedom, against our nation, against truth. We are there for the same reasons you are, to get our point across.

Quote:
but protest organizers who have paid to reserve public property for private use have a right to exclude anyone they want from the public spaces they have paid for.

Reply:
So you are saying ANSWER and other organizations payed to use the city streets of New York City? Or any other rally that PW has been to? Funny, in all the video shot, not once did I see someone saying that "this is a private function, please leave"

Quote:
people threaten to beat up protest warriors but its really just hyperbolic taunting one would expect in any rivalry

Reply:
Try watching some of the videos on PW's website. The way your friends act doesn't look like a "hyperbolic taunting". Also, check your definitions booklet aka dictionary on the meaning of the word Hyperbolic.

Quote:
Public parks can be used by anyone but that doesnt mean you have the right to shove your way into the middle of a picnic and sit between members of a group you dislike (or don't know) that is clearly using a picnic table.

Reply:
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about protesting? Next time you have a picnic I'm sure the PW's will bring some potato salad so you will be happy.....Point is, you have a right to voice your opinion where ever you want because way back in the day some men that were tired of tyrant rule decided to wage a war. Look up American Revoulution on google. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they were fighting for our rights as well.

Quote:
From a standpoint of political effectiveness, the Protest Warriors do promulgate the new Rush/Savage/"angry white man" view of the Right thats starting to be the common view of the public towards the right. The stereotyped liberal that allowed the right to gain power in the early 80s was new agey, prone to conspiracy theories, .... Reagan used this stereotype to rally a base that wasn't the traditional upper-class Republican base (some of it was the religious right and some was non-union workingclass); the Republicans didnt do this by presenting ideas, it did this by playing the workingclass against the image of stuffy or new agey liberals. But the image of the everyman Republic that proved so useful in the 80s has now been taken to an extreme that is bound to alienate a majority of the population. While people may listen to people like Rush or Savage and some may agree with them, its hard to get around the fact that they are are trying to be obnoxious (in a similar way to someone like Howard Stern). If the right can be boxed in to its new found image and people come to see them as obnoxious crass jerks, they can be safely isolated as a fringe with no pull on the majority public.

Reply:
Well, I was born in 1976. I remeber Reagan. I also remeber G.I. Joe, He-Man, Star Wars, and loads of other toys I played with while Reagan attempted to trick America into being proud to be an American. Certainly you don't think my toys had anything to do with the way I see the world. My opinions and ideas come from common sence. They come from the freedom given to me by men and women of our countries past. I listen to Rush, Hanady, Savage, and several others. I don't always agree with them on what they say, however I listen and learn. I hear many opinions that don't always reflect my own. However, I do believe in freedom. I do believe in fighting for that freedom. If you feel like supporting terrorists, then do so, just know that one day the line will be drawn for you, and at that time, your true colors will be shown.
by Falcon
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 12:52 PM
Phelps and his ilk are psychos. We disavow any association with those people. They're so far out of the freaking stratosphere that it's actually funny.
But then you lefties seem to really enjoy painting all us conservatives with the same brush, huh?
by Ashcroft
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 1:01 PM
protest_warrior.jpg
Let the eagle soar,
Like she's never soared before.
From rocky coast to golden shore,
Let the mighty eagle soar.
Soar with healing in her wings,
As the land beneath her sings:
"Only god, no other kings."
This country's far too young to die.
We've still got a lot of climbing to do,
And we can make it if we try.
Built by toils and struggles
God has led us through.

http://www.symbolman.com/corpabuse.html
by Falcon
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 1:12 PM
You're ignoring the point. And what problem do you have with some people at FR being involved with ProtestWarrior, anyway?
by hehe
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 1:32 PM
Just noticed that one of the right-wingers posting couldn't help bring up G.I. Joe, He-Man, and Star Wars and uses http://www.uhlclan.com at the end of his emails. Looking at the pics above I wonder if its the guy in the bottom right corner.
I think it could be this guy:
http://www.theonion.com/opinion/index.php?issue=4023&o=2

All you people talking about beating up these guys should calm down. Protests would be boring if we didnt have the comic relief.
by Brian
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 4:40 PM
First off, read why I mentioned the toys. There ya go, that wasn't hard now was it? Real mature of you to take what I said and turn it upside down. Second, I post my url, not my email. If you took a second to look around my site, you would eventualy find me in there, then if you decided to go into our forums, you would see me talking about all kinds of things. It's my invetation to you, invitong you into part of my life, and letting you get a chance to know me before you attempt to discredit me. Seriously folks, how many of you out there didn't get hte lve you deserved from your parents? I can only assume this is why you are the way you are. Grow up please, and do it somewhere else. This here is grown up talk.
by cp
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 4:59 PM
The reverend Phelps Westboro baptist antigay people are very antiamerican. Maybe they would match the protest warrior people, if the Protest Warrior people are indeed against the Federal Government, however, this would be inconsistent with their pro-military position.
Here are my pictures of the Reverend Phelps people in Berkeley with their antigovernment signs: http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/11/1543509_comment.php?theme=default
by Brian
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 7:24 PM
Sorry, but I don't see this Phelps group in the same legue as PW's. Had I been there, I would have pulled out my bible and shown them where they were wrong. The only thing in common with Phelps and PW, hell even ANSWER, is that they are a group of people protesting against something.

What is it with you folks and your rubber amunition? I know you want love and peace and harmony between every living creature....but come on..If you are going to try an attempt at making us look bad or foolish, at least think about it for more than 30 seconds. Find some real ammo to use against us "right wingers". Problem is, you can't, so you use what you think would be affective. In reality, you are only showing yourselves to be the morons(I call you that with respect) that we want the world to see you as.
by Brian
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 9:25 PM
It just goes to show that assumption is the mother of all fuck ups! I'm married, have a 7 yr old son and enjoy my life. Are you the best the left has to offer? Please tell me you are 12. I seriously hate to think that an adult would act as immature as you are acting now. Attack my beliefs all you want, try to proove me wrong, but for the love of all the trees you hug, stop attacking me. Grow up!
Could I ask how this can be true when you seem to have been posting comments since early this morning? Or is teaching your daughter how to be homophobic what you consider to be good parenting.
by Anon
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 10:06 PM
Well it look like the Protest "Warriors" have shown their true colors on this thread. Dumb, bigoted and in cahoots with the FreeRepublic thugs. You guys really need to think twice about who you associate with. And you are soooo suprised you get a negative reaction when you show up at our protests with your stupid signs. What do you expect when you are there for the express purpose of promoting ideals held mainly by 65 year old hangovers from the WW2 generation that salivate for war and will do anything to see it happen? You guys betray your own generation-why don't you go pray to your capitalist gods and see how long it takes for them to chew you up and spit you out?
by J rector
Monday Jun 14th, 2004 10:49 PM
"Put it this way: if the tables were turned and it was the left having thieir signs blocked and torn up and told to leave, they would cry "censorship" and claim that the right wasn't being "tolerant."" Actually the right does not let people with opposing signs into there rallys. They, Bush's people especially, physically prevent attendence at their rallies by opponants to preserve the "picture" perfect video of everyone agreeing with the leader.
by just wondering
Tuesday Jun 15th, 2004 2:49 AM
These people are not only enemies of everything we believe in, but they are out to destroy Indymedia.They not only admit it, they bragged about it.

See:

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/04/1688517.php



So why are they being allowed to use this site for a soapbox?

by Brian
Tuesday Jun 15th, 2004 6:50 AM
Quote:
Could I ask how this can be true when you seem to have been posting comments since early this morning? Or is teaching your daughter how to be homophobic what you consider to be good parenting.
Reply:
Can I ask why you assume so much without gettign facts? Can I ask why does it matter how many posts I have or when I made them? Perhaps you can tell me the legal limit of posts/time ratio allowed before I am a bad parrent. One more thing Mr.Instegator, perhaps you have problems reading. I said SON, not daughter. Never once did I mention anything about being scared of homosexuals. Not even sure I mentioned homosexuals in this thread. However, to finnish you off, I don't have a problem with homosexuals, I just don't condone their sin.

Quote:
Well it look like the Protest "Warriors" have shown their true colors on this thread. Dumb, bigoted and in cahoots with the FreeRepublic thugs. You guys really need to think twice about who you associate with. And you are soooo suprised you get a negative reaction when you show up at our protests with your stupid signs. What do you expect when you are there for the express purpose of promoting ideals held mainly by 65 year old hangovers from the WW2 generation that salivate for war and will do anything to see it happen? You guys betray your own generation-why don't you go pray to your capitalist gods and see how long it takes for them to chew you up and spit you out?
Reply:
Other than calling names and crying, what have you accomplished here? If this is the best you can do to fight for your side well then I'm let down. Get some real ammunition. Come on, let it loose. If not, then sit down, shut the hell up and raise your hand when you have a decent idea come to mind.

Quote:
"Put it this way: if the tables were turned and it was the left having thieir signs blocked and torn up and told to leave, they would cry "censorship" and claim that the right wasn't being "tolerant."" Actually the right does not let people with opposing signs into there rallys. They, Bush's people especially, physically prevent attendence at their rallies by opponants to preserve the "picture" perfect video of everyone agreeing with the leader.
Reply:
Tell ya what. Call your friends, make your signs and fly on down to Houston. I'll have my signs, you will have yours, and we can march side by side and debate in person. If you pass up this opertunity, well then, you realy don't want what you say.

Quote:
So why are they being allowed to use this site for a soapbox?
Reply:
Yeah, it's that thing you don't like....freedom. Perhaps you can tell me why it's not right to help suffering people. Maybe you can explain to me why you love the people that want this nation dead. Maybe you can explain your ideas to me. Don't let this oportunity pass. Stand up for your beliefs, don't be affraid of what I will say in retaliation. This is your chance to shine. So do it. Teach me!
by Falcon
Tuesday Jun 15th, 2004 12:40 PM
You guys are so full of it. Phelps is a raving lunatic. Pure and simple. The people who follow him are out there, too. And having met the Freepers, I found them very agreeable and pleasant. Though some are suspicious of PW.
What is it with you people and conspiracy theories? Again you are ignoring the point.
by gweneth paltrow
Tuesday Jun 15th, 2004 12:47 PM
Both The Free Republic and Little Green Footballs also have a "snippet" mill of local informants that reaches to the highest levels of the US governement. The FBI and beyond. "Snippets" are typically generated at LGF. If The Free Republic thinks the "snippet" could lead to an arrest the info flows upward from LGF page to The Free Republic webpage. The "snippet" mill then floods the FBI or Homeland Security with "objective snippets" about "possible credible threats" with hundreds of "very concerned citizens" who "stumbled across this" snippet that terrifies them and so on.

See first:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/05/1680701.php
by PWs and Freepers
Tuesday Jun 15th, 2004 1:51 PM
If you look around the Freeper's website you get a little bit of the conspiracy thoery militia movement feel, but its more in the tone than the content.

The protest warriors have more of a tie to partisan politics. I'm sure people going to protests to be disruptive but wearing Arnold t-shirts makes many Freepers cringe in the same way seeing a black bloc type wearing a Kerry t-shirt would make just about any Leftist cringe.

What makes Freepers and protest warriors interesting as a movement is that they define themselves in opposition to the "Left". This style of right-wing activism seems to have started with David Horrowitz, who portrays himself as rebelling against the radical left and uses this to build his politics in almost purely oppositional terms. This is very different from traditional conservatives and libertarians who portrayed what they stood for in positive terms and gained power by dismissing radicals rather than confronting them.

In Horrowitz's case, David probably still is a hardline Marxist who likes to play devil's advocate and create an easy straw-man for students to attack allowing him to encourage left-wing activism on campuses. Michael Savage seems to play a similar role but one would have to know more of his background to know if he believes what he says, is being provocative solely to increase his audience, or is like Horrowitz really working for the Left. But the bulk those in the oppositional movement (from PWs to most Freepers to Rush and his followers) seem to actually believe in what they are saying.

Before the current Iraq war protests (or perhaps the Seattle WTO protests) the existence of right-wingers who define themselves almost solely in opposition to a weak and divided Left seemed to contradict all logic. Some of it was partisan politics not really tied to ideology (Rush still demonizes the center-right Clinton administration to promote a center-right Bush administration) During the first months of the Iraq war one did see smart right-wingers rally people to the war with "support our troops" rallies but while some of the oppositional right-wing may have showed up to such protests, they did not organize them. In small towns, perhaps the oppositional right plays the part of a hate group whose sole intension is to intimidate left-wing activists, but in cities like SF they are a confusing bunch. It seems unlikely the federal government would ever work with them and in a city like SF, the SFPD hate them even more than they hate left-wing protesters. From the partisan logos on some of their signs one might think they could be an offshoot of the Bush campaign, but their ultimate impact is to hurt Bush by portraying his supporters as paranoid and brash (politicians learned awhile ago that the effective way to deal with protests is to ignore tham as irrelevent not to treat them as threats). The only real conclusion one can reach about them is that they exist for social reasons and there isnt any real thought behind either the PW or freepers existence or goals. Individual members may have well thought out ideologies, but the groups exist to provide a place for like minded individuals to re-inforce their common ideas through positive feedback. Actions by PWs and freepers may take the form of goal driven political activism but they are more a way for people to have fun with friends while feeling like they are fighting for some higher cause.

One interesting analysis of at least one or two oppositional right-wingers' psychology can be seen on this thread. The arguments presented are "why can't we join your march" and "our actions prove you are against free speach". These are social rather than political complaints; one doesnt see "you are wrong about the war because..." or "you are wrong about the economy because" For most of the public, arguments about joining protests would seem irrelevent (just as the protests seem irrelevent); the underlying goal of the PWs posting here seems to be attention from the Left and perhaps acknowledgement and status within the small oppositional right community.
by PW
Tuesday Jun 15th, 2004 7:16 PM
"one doesnt see "you are wrong about the war because..." or "you are wrong about the economy because""

That is because according to the rules of this website, so called "right wing propoganda" is not allowed. Comments in that nature get hidden swiftly, no questions asked. The other comments you mentioned generally stick around for a while longer, some moderators remove them just for the fact that they are posted by a member that comes from a right wing group, while other moderators seemingly let those comments stand.

"These people are not only enemies of everything we believe in, but they are out to destroy Indymedia.They not only admit it, they bragged about it."

That doesn't seem to be endorsed by any named group, and I haven't seen any problems on the Indybay and SF IndyMedia website either. Most of the topics that the ProtestWarriors posted in were in posts specifically made about the ProtestWarriors.
by IMCista
Wednesday Jun 16th, 2004 2:13 AM
Threats and replies to threats should be hidden. Imflamatory argumenting does nothing to promote debate.

Please see:
http://bayarea.indymedia.org/news/2003/12/1664397.php
http://indybay.org/news/2002/08/139500.php
by PW
Wednesday Jun 16th, 2004 3:43 PM
Not in this thread, but check around the March 20th and June 5th threads. Most people have given up already because there's no sense in spending time writing out a post only to have it deleted.

In fact, you're not even allowed to link to any conservative minded websites anymore. I can't seem to pull up the topic now with the search, but it was either here or on the San Francisco IndyMedia page. Someone made a post asking whether the right wing groups here were affiliated with some German group that did something similar. Because the German guy didn't know who the right-wing group here was, someone simply made a comment that was something to the effect of "The right wing guys at our protests are from the ProtestWarrior group" and that commenter made a link to the PW website. That comment was subsequently hidden. There was a follow-up reply stating "The above post was perfectly valid, why was it deleted?" and that follow-up comment was censored as well.

As IMCista has alluded to here and as have other posters, simple posting of our viewpoint is automatically labeled as inflammatory speech. Most of the posts you see here now from ProtestWarrior are on topics specifically having to do with topics made that discussed ProtestWarrior. You know, “Right wing hate group”, “right wing fascists”, that kind of thing, where some news posters make outlandish comments that need to be clarified. However, most clarifications were censored in any case.

It’s been made clear that posts from conservative or right wing people are not welcome, and you need to look no further than all the people who told us to “Stop sucking up the IMC bandwidth” and "You post what you want on your forum and we will discuss what we want on the IMC website"
by again
Wednesday Jun 16th, 2004 4:18 PM
So again your going off on a tangent of how your goal is to be able to express yourself at another groups event. Be it ANSWER or Indymedias, the main statement people hear from you is a demand to be able to march in a parade you claim to dislike. This site has a right to be able to censor what it wants and from I can see its mainly posts by you that are not making an argument but stating dislike for Leftists without providing much of an argument. Can you link to one comment by yourself, Brian or other right wingers that is hidden but appears intended to start discussion rather than just start a flamewar?
by well, duh
Wednesday Jun 16th, 2004 6:48 PM
So go away already. Only boors and bullies stay wherethey are not welcome.
by soy!
Sunday Jul 4th, 2004 4:28 PM
this may be late,but,
who even cares to bother with them?
there is usually only,8 "activists" out there anyways.
by Mr. X
Saturday Jul 17th, 2004 9:47 PM
FreeRepublic is now funding the Protest Warriors. Here is proof(a comment on FreeRepublic):

To: Dr. Marten
This is text of an email exchange with one of the principal leaders of Protest Warrior. I encourage any Freepers to donate to them. They are serving a very useful function for the Cause.

How many time have we on this forum decried the fact that there aren't people/organizations out there getting into the leftist's faces? Well, these people are and need our encouragement and support. If you don't want to, or can't make a donation, go to their store....they have some of the greatest merchadise imaginable.

Watch their videos and tell me these aren't some of the most courageous young people out there on our side.



Charles,

Thank you sir. I can't tell you how much it means to us to see so much support for our efforts. We had no idea it would get to this point, but with help and support from fellow citizens, we plan to take it much further.

Sincerely,

Kfir Alfia


-----Original Message-----
From: Charles XXXXXXXX [mailto:cordileone [at] earthlink.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 8:14 PM
To: kfir_and_alan [at] protestwarrior.com
Subject: RE: Your ProtestWarrior Donation

Gentlemen,

I spent a couple of hours watching your videos this afternoon. I picked up about you on Free Republic and Hugh Hewitt.

I'm an older warrior myself and have been fighting the left ever since the late 50's. I have to admit, I had given up on your generation. I now know that there are those of you who will keep up the fight until the left is finally defeated.

I just want to say that you and your group are swinging the biggest pairs out there. You guys are raw courage and guts. I know how difficult this can be and applaud you.

Keep up the good work.

CS
Hooahh!



-----Original Message-----
From: kfir_and_alan [at] protestwarrior.com
[mailto:kfir_and_alan [at] protestwarrior.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 7:55 PM
To: cordileone [at] earthlink.net
Subject: Your ProtestWarrior Donation

Dear Charles,

Thank you for your contribution of $100.00 to ProtestWarrior. Donations like yours (along with our online sales) make it possible for us to continue to fight the good fight full-time, and we will do our best to live up to the trust you have given us.

Sincerely,

Kfir Alfia and Alan Davidson



20 posted on 07/17/2004 7:02:22 PM PDT by x1stcav (http://www.ronaldreaganmemorial.com/photo_gallery.asp)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
by John
Monday Jul 19th, 2004 3:50 PM
So much happens on the "left" that is just left hanging with no answer or rebuttal and I am constantly "shocked" by what to me seems an obvious bias towards a progressive agenda in mainstream media. The false accusations made against the Bush administration and parroted by the democratic hopefuls and their socialist "brownshirts" is appalling. The accusations receive huge media attention and the "retractions" after the discovery of their false nature are for the most-part non-existant.

The PW's much belated response to the left and the unmitigated gall they have in using the "lefts" own tactics against them is absolutey unmitigated genious! The point they make is that a small group of elites and their mind-numbed robots do not reflect a true consensus of American sensibilities. This point is needed and I believe appreciated by more than just myself. WE ARE NOT ISOLATED AND ALONE as the media would have us think.

Free Speech and the exercise of reasoned debate IS ALIVE AND WELL regardless of the shrill deluge of psuedo-intellectual drivel coming from the "left". Keep it up PW and I hope you grow into a movement that cannot be ignored or dismissed by the "enlightened" in our society. You know them, the privledged who preach the gospel of disarming dangerous rednecks while employing their own armed thugs, er I mean bodyguards.

I will be watching and hope to see opportunities for us out-of-college age people to contribute.
by some machine
Thursday Jul 22nd, 2004 10:50 AM
A quote from Brian:

"What would our life be like had we not fought for our freedom in the American revolution? What would our life be like had we not had a Civil War?"

well, perhaps we'd still be under the rule of the Queen - scary as it may sound, it's possible that we might have had a crack at socialized healthcare!

i'm not, of course, proposing we become subjects of the monarchy again, but think about it - you CAN NOT answer that question, and we are still not really all that free.

The Civil War also did very little to advance this country (now we're stuck with the south forever, hehehe) except for the publicized 'emancipation' proclamation, which was not a heroic humanitarian act but a political one and which in reality did very little to better the quality of life for many previously enslaved people. it's actually taken over a hundred years to see any real effect, and there are people STILL fighting for basic human rights. instead of agricultural slavery we now have the prison-industrial complex. America got its 'freedom' and turned into a bully (so did Israel, for that matter - funny how the oppressed wind up becoming the oppressors).


by kid violent
(violent [at] funwithviolence.net) Monday Jul 26th, 2004 1:24 PM
has anyone seen those fuckin stupid PW videos like "eagle strike",those are some dungeons and dragons ass muthafuckas, or "operation wolverine" lame ass fools.i think they need to get laid,but i seriously doubt they can with all the 12 sided dice and their mom busting into their room looking for the remote.
i seen that they are also training with guns,if an anarchist flaunted the assault rifles we have (or,uh,i mean dont have)we would be on a one way ticket to guantanamo.they said at the rnc they are going to carry concealed weapons and try to battle the blocs(which arent there,there is only inconspicuos burgeosise bloc,the only time you'll catch me wearing a ambercrombie and fitch outfit)i'll carry my four inch legal blade incase the PW think they are the elvin warlock masters on level 4 with carisma level of 9,sorry PW your rare magic:the gathering cards wont protect you from stabby and punchy in a street fight.

PROTEST WARRIORS,IF YOU FUCK WITH RADICALS WHO ARENT PACIFISTS,YOU WILL GET HURT.THIS IS NOT A FUCKING JOKE,YOUR DELUSIONS OF GRANDURE WILL GET YOU BEING STABBED IN THE KIDNEYS,LEFT TO DIE AND NO MAGIC POTION IS GOING TO GIVE YOU ANOTHER LIFE FOR LEVEL 6.FREE REPUBLIC,START SHIT AND GET DELT WITH,JOHN KAZA REMEBER HOW YOU RAN WITH YOUR TAIL BETWEEN YOUR LEGS,WHEN 30 ANARCHIST WERE GOING TO BREAK YOUR FACE FOR MAKING SEXIST COMMENTS,WHERE WERE YOUR BUSTER ASS POSSE?

"THOSE WHO MAKE PEACEFUL REVOLUTION IMPOSSIBLE,MAKE VIOLENT REVOLUTION INEVITBLE"-MLK

PROTEST WARRIORS/FREE REPUBLIC BUSTERS POR VIDA
by .
Thursday Jan 27th, 2005 11:32 AM
He even explicitly says it in his profile. Also, who has like 300 virtual friends, like all these friendster and myspace people... Clearly, the ones online many hours a day, when not infiltrating groups.
http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=375912&Myt
oken=20050111193427
My friend Jim Miller was arrested by the Evesham Township Police for attempting to walk visibly past Bush supporters with his wife's memorial wheelchair. The wheelchair was thrown to the ground by the cop (Carl Scutt).

We were in Evesham to confront the Bush Administration's idiotic drug war rhetoric, not harrass his supporters. In fact, we were surprised that some of the Bushies were receptive to the idea of being allowed to grow and use a medicinal plant.

One of the "faithful" even said, "We're gonna get him to change that", most of them however hissed and booed at this grieving husband seeking a real redress of grievances, and speaking truth to power.
by Jean Ryan
Wednesday Mar 2nd, 2005 12:19 PM
That is totally without backup. Many people are with the Warrior Protest. It doesn't matter anyway, thay are the ones that a majorly concerned with the middle east anyway.

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