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Anarchist John Zerzan will be Speaking at SIERRA COLLEGE in Rocklin CA THURSDAY April 22
Come watch SURPLUS and hear John Zerzan speak at 11am and 4pm THURSDAY April 22 at SIERRA COLLEGE in Rocklin CA during a week of EARTH DAY activities.
THURSDAY April 22 Anarchist John Zerzan will be Speaking At SIERRA COLLEGE in Rocklin CA during a week of EARTH DAY activities.
SURPLUS, a radical independent film by Erik Gandinni will be shown once at 11am in the Library TV room LR 107 where it will be aired on the Sierra College cable channel and once more at 4 pm in the Winsted building room W110, both of which John Zerzan will give a small lecture and answer questions during discussion of the movie.
THURSDAY april 22
- 11am in Library room LRC 107
- 4pm in Winsted building room W110
There will be music, food, exhibits, local zines / distributions and workshops going on all day WED and THURS in the quad
John Zerzan may well be the most extreme author on the planet. It is somewhat ironic that the release of the Unabomber's Industrial Society and its Consequences should have brought Zerzan's views to national attention--ironic because his writings are far more extreme than those of the bomber he was believed to have influenced. For Zerzan, humanity's fall from grace did not commence with industrialism nor even with agriculture, but in the embrace of symbolic culture, i.e., language, art, and number. Culture, rather than being viewed as our great emancipator, is a mediation which distances us from a sensual embrace of reality, our capacity to realize ourselves within the moment. Language is communication become subject-bound, art is a stand-in for an infinitely more rich reality; number is the practice of an illusory sameness which drains our world of interest.
His essay collections, Elements of Refusal and Future Primitive, map a primitivist critique he has been pursuing in the anarchist milieu for the past two decades. His recent fame, commencing with a New York Times article and continuing with radio and television interviews, largely focus on his status as one of the few critics of technology who has not denounced the Unabomber from the outset. But his perspective goes deeper than this. With the advent of a world based on biotechnology and genetic engineering, Zerzan may stand in the tradition of the Taoist sages, Diogenes, and Rousseau as the last of the great exponents of the unfettered wild man--or perhaps he's the first in a new tradition whose impact has yet to be seen.
Read interview with Zerzan at:
http://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/jensen.htm
& http://www.primitivism.com/zerzan.htm
Read some of his work online at:
http://www.primitivism.com
& http://www.blackandgreen.org/jz.html
Directions to Sierra College go to
and scroll down for a map of campus:
http://www.sierracollege.edu/about/mapsRockhtml.htm
DO NOT MISS ZERZAN SPEAK OR SURPLUS.
ZERZAN IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PHILOSPHER OF OUR TIMES
HIS CRITIQUES OF DOMINATION AND POWER ARE UNAVOIDABLE IF WE WISH AT ALL TO LOOK THIS MESS OF A WORLD.
SURPLUS, a radical independent film by Erik Gandinni will be shown once at 11am in the Library TV room LR 107 where it will be aired on the Sierra College cable channel and once more at 4 pm in the Winsted building room W110, both of which John Zerzan will give a small lecture and answer questions during discussion of the movie.
THURSDAY april 22
- 11am in Library room LRC 107
- 4pm in Winsted building room W110
There will be music, food, exhibits, local zines / distributions and workshops going on all day WED and THURS in the quad
John Zerzan may well be the most extreme author on the planet. It is somewhat ironic that the release of the Unabomber's Industrial Society and its Consequences should have brought Zerzan's views to national attention--ironic because his writings are far more extreme than those of the bomber he was believed to have influenced. For Zerzan, humanity's fall from grace did not commence with industrialism nor even with agriculture, but in the embrace of symbolic culture, i.e., language, art, and number. Culture, rather than being viewed as our great emancipator, is a mediation which distances us from a sensual embrace of reality, our capacity to realize ourselves within the moment. Language is communication become subject-bound, art is a stand-in for an infinitely more rich reality; number is the practice of an illusory sameness which drains our world of interest.
His essay collections, Elements of Refusal and Future Primitive, map a primitivist critique he has been pursuing in the anarchist milieu for the past two decades. His recent fame, commencing with a New York Times article and continuing with radio and television interviews, largely focus on his status as one of the few critics of technology who has not denounced the Unabomber from the outset. But his perspective goes deeper than this. With the advent of a world based on biotechnology and genetic engineering, Zerzan may stand in the tradition of the Taoist sages, Diogenes, and Rousseau as the last of the great exponents of the unfettered wild man--or perhaps he's the first in a new tradition whose impact has yet to be seen.
Read interview with Zerzan at:
http://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/jensen.htm
& http://www.primitivism.com/zerzan.htm
Read some of his work online at:
http://www.primitivism.com
& http://www.blackandgreen.org/jz.html
Directions to Sierra College go to
and scroll down for a map of campus:
http://www.sierracollege.edu/about/mapsRockhtml.htm
DO NOT MISS ZERZAN SPEAK OR SURPLUS.
ZERZAN IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PHILOSPHER OF OUR TIMES
HIS CRITIQUES OF DOMINATION AND POWER ARE UNAVOIDABLE IF WE WISH AT ALL TO LOOK THIS MESS OF A WORLD.
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You have got to be kidding. I read Elements of Refusal and from what I gleaned in his other screeds, that's a pretty good primer for the world of Zerzan.
This man is a creep. Okay, I'll lay off with the personal attacks and say why.
Life is mediated. Consciousness is mediation, active mediation, but mediation nonetheless.
Zerzan's critique of mediation is not unique to him. He has basically lifted the essence of Martin Hiedegger. Who? Well, Hiedegger was perhaps the greatest philosopher in Germany at the time of the Nazi rise to power. And he loved them.
The Nazis weren't just about murder and mayhem. No, they loved to talk about getting back to the land, naturalism, paganism, and authenticity in opposition to the urban, "cosmopolitan," mediated "Judaic" spirit of democracy and socialism. Sound familiar?
The Nazis thought that class conflict was an illustion meant to sap the unity of the German "folk." Representative democracy was a travesty used to keep people from their true being. Great stuff.
Sound familiar?
John Zerzan is a creep. His philosophy is crypto-nazism and anyone stupid enough to think math is the problem deserves to follow a hack like him. He sure made it big time in Eugene with a few dozen drop out followers who smell like the sewer.
Cheers.
This man is a creep. Okay, I'll lay off with the personal attacks and say why.
Life is mediated. Consciousness is mediation, active mediation, but mediation nonetheless.
Zerzan's critique of mediation is not unique to him. He has basically lifted the essence of Martin Hiedegger. Who? Well, Hiedegger was perhaps the greatest philosopher in Germany at the time of the Nazi rise to power. And he loved them.
The Nazis weren't just about murder and mayhem. No, they loved to talk about getting back to the land, naturalism, paganism, and authenticity in opposition to the urban, "cosmopolitan," mediated "Judaic" spirit of democracy and socialism. Sound familiar?
The Nazis thought that class conflict was an illustion meant to sap the unity of the German "folk." Representative democracy was a travesty used to keep people from their true being. Great stuff.
Sound familiar?
John Zerzan is a creep. His philosophy is crypto-nazism and anyone stupid enough to think math is the problem deserves to follow a hack like him. He sure made it big time in Eugene with a few dozen drop out followers who smell like the sewer.
Cheers.
So...because John Zerzan's writings resemble Heidegger's, and Heidegger supported the Nazis (proof, please), and because the Nazis are, well, Nazis, John Zerzan is a creep? Why not just say that every philosopher that is influenced by Heidegger (or for that matter, Nietschze) is a Nazi? There's plenty of constructive criticisms that can be levelled at John Zerzan, but this is a straight-up ad hominem. Whatever.
he's an anarcho-primitivist, not a nazi.
anarchism covers a lot of ground, from individualism/egoism to anti-authoritarian communism, plus primitivist and anti-civ bents.
primitivists, like the individualists, could not care less about the death of bilions of people, because they have elevated their ideology to a status above humanity.
anarchism covers a lot of ground, from individualism/egoism to anti-authoritarian communism, plus primitivist and anti-civ bents.
primitivists, like the individualists, could not care less about the death of bilions of people, because they have elevated their ideology to a status above humanity.
How's Z-star getting there? Is Wilma, Betty or Barney driving him? And I hope he doesn't take too many Ludes--or whatever shit he mellows out with--this time, as it's hard enough understanding his misanthropic dogma usually, but even worse when he's on downers.
It's sad, as he's a bright guy. Just read Knabb's "Public Secrets" to see how he used to denounce Knabb's groups, then would beg to be allowed to join; he could just never make up his mind. But I guess it wasn't easy being a union bureaucrat pimping people back then and he really didn't have time to think things through. And worse still, is his relationship with a sick, hateful pig like Kaczynski. I guess they have hating themselves--and humanity by extension--in common.
As a great writer once said about Zerzan:
"I've seen the best mind of my generation destroyed by dogmatic madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the anglo-saxon streets at dawn looking for an angry quaalude,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient Luddite connection to the starry dynamo in the primitivism of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the vegan darkness of electric blanket flats floating across the tops of cities contemplating green anarchy
..."
The Z-star, a damn shame. An example of a clever mind ruined by erroneous analysis and banally stupid ideas.
F. Flinstone
Bedrock, CA
It's sad, as he's a bright guy. Just read Knabb's "Public Secrets" to see how he used to denounce Knabb's groups, then would beg to be allowed to join; he could just never make up his mind. But I guess it wasn't easy being a union bureaucrat pimping people back then and he really didn't have time to think things through. And worse still, is his relationship with a sick, hateful pig like Kaczynski. I guess they have hating themselves--and humanity by extension--in common.
As a great writer once said about Zerzan:
"I've seen the best mind of my generation destroyed by dogmatic madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the anglo-saxon streets at dawn looking for an angry quaalude,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient Luddite connection to the starry dynamo in the primitivism of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the vegan darkness of electric blanket flats floating across the tops of cities contemplating green anarchy
..."
The Z-star, a damn shame. An example of a clever mind ruined by erroneous analysis and banally stupid ideas.
F. Flinstone
Bedrock, CA
How's Z-star getting there? Is Wilma, Betty or Barney driving him? And I hope he doesn't take too many Ludes--or whatever shit he mellows out with--this time, as it's hard enough understanding his misanthropic dogma usually, but even worse when he's on downers.
It's sad, as he's a bright guy. Just read Knabb's "Public Secrets" to see how he used to denounce Knabb's groups, then would beg to be allowed to join; he could just never make up his mind. But I guess it wasn't easy being a union bureaucrat pimping people back then and he really didn't have time to think things through. And worse still, is his relationship with a sick, hateful pig like Kaczynski. I guess they have hating themselves--and humanity by extension--in common.
As a great writer once said about Zerzan:
"I've seen the best mind of my generation destroyed by dogmatic madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the anglo-saxon streets at dawn looking for an angry quaalude,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient Luddite connection to the starry dynamo in the primitivism of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the vegan darkness of electric blanket flats floating across the tops of cities contemplating green anarchy
..."
The Z-star, a damn shame. An example of a clever mind ruined by erroneous analysis and banally stupid ideas.
F. Flinstone
Bedrock, CA
It's sad, as he's a bright guy. Just read Knabb's "Public Secrets" to see how he used to denounce Knabb's groups, then would beg to be allowed to join; he could just never make up his mind. But I guess it wasn't easy being a union bureaucrat pimping people back then and he really didn't have time to think things through. And worse still, is his relationship with a sick, hateful pig like Kaczynski. I guess they have hating themselves--and humanity by extension--in common.
As a great writer once said about Zerzan:
"I've seen the best mind of my generation destroyed by dogmatic madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the anglo-saxon streets at dawn looking for an angry quaalude,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient Luddite connection to the starry dynamo in the primitivism of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the vegan darkness of electric blanket flats floating across the tops of cities contemplating green anarchy
..."
The Z-star, a damn shame. An example of a clever mind ruined by erroneous analysis and banally stupid ideas.
F. Flinstone
Bedrock, CA
Anyone who imagines that they have "elevated their ideology to a status above humanity" is not an anarchist. Anarchists are, first and foremost, pro human. Primitivism is anti-human.
Anarchism does not covers a lot of ground. Anarchism is very specific. It includes nothing that is anti-human.
Anarchism does not covers a lot of ground. Anarchism is very specific. It includes nothing that is anti-human.
I dont care if you like him or hate him.
the Fact is Zerzan will be in Rocklin CA on April 22.
Sierra College
room LRC-107 @ 11am
room W-110 @ 4pm
I'd hope anyone who would spend the time to sling mud at someone's name on the internet would have the courage and moral fortitude to show up and at least ask some questions to the man's face about his philosophy, and those ideas that you object to.
That's what we want right? an exchange of ideas?
or do you just like to feel superior by bashing community events you dont agree with?
want everyone to fall into your standards of a "real anarchist"...
that's pretty authoritarian
and anonymous, uneducated internet attacks show very little courage, intellegence, or open-mindedness.
swimming in the ignorance.
-Fritts
not affraid of a face to face
the Fact is Zerzan will be in Rocklin CA on April 22.
Sierra College
room LRC-107 @ 11am
room W-110 @ 4pm
I'd hope anyone who would spend the time to sling mud at someone's name on the internet would have the courage and moral fortitude to show up and at least ask some questions to the man's face about his philosophy, and those ideas that you object to.
That's what we want right? an exchange of ideas?
or do you just like to feel superior by bashing community events you dont agree with?
want everyone to fall into your standards of a "real anarchist"...
that's pretty authoritarian
and anonymous, uneducated internet attacks show very little courage, intellegence, or open-mindedness.
swimming in the ignorance.
-Fritts
not affraid of a face to face
at one point john zerzan e-mailed me to do a speaking engagement at fresno state,i just couldnt agree with the way hes going with things,i like my showers,computers,technologically advanced vegan running shoes,drugs,electricity,and my bike.i dont want to revert back to hunter/gatherer nomadic lifestyle pre post industrial,if im gonna be hunting(shoplifting)/gathering(dumpster diving) i wanna do it now in the age i live not a 4000 year old replica of a time that we can only speculate about.
ted kazynsky is not hateful,he wanted to be heard and he acted on his hate of enviromental slaughter and the mass brainwashing of our culture by advertising executives.he killed just a few people and our culture murders 10's of billions of animals a years,capitalism starves murders and maims millions by the weight of our tax dollars,women starve and strive to look the way this culture of liberated{sic} women ought to be.ted isnt hateful,culture is and someone had to do something while our passivity allows death and destruction and some people have audacity to complain about the deaths of a few assholes(and the death of those who facilitate the gobbles and hitlers).we should not be appaled by his actions,but rather our inaction that kills more than just a few.
~soy!~
oh yeah the asshole who talked about the eugene kids who stink,your enamoured by the false scent of comfort capitalists sell you so that you can be acceptable to the masses,fuck your face.
ted kazynsky is not hateful,he wanted to be heard and he acted on his hate of enviromental slaughter and the mass brainwashing of our culture by advertising executives.he killed just a few people and our culture murders 10's of billions of animals a years,capitalism starves murders and maims millions by the weight of our tax dollars,women starve and strive to look the way this culture of liberated{sic} women ought to be.ted isnt hateful,culture is and someone had to do something while our passivity allows death and destruction and some people have audacity to complain about the deaths of a few assholes(and the death of those who facilitate the gobbles and hitlers).we should not be appaled by his actions,but rather our inaction that kills more than just a few.
~soy!~
oh yeah the asshole who talked about the eugene kids who stink,your enamoured by the false scent of comfort capitalists sell you so that you can be acceptable to the masses,fuck your face.
For more information:
http://www.crimethinc.com
First, Eugene kids are just *trying* to reject their middle classness, nothing more--except to breed parasitic microbes on their bodies. I don't hate them, I just like them more when they stay down wind, across the Oregon border preferably.
Next, if Kacynski didn't get it from the state, us workers would have taken the fucker out permanently. If office workers getting blown away or losing their hands are O.K. to you, then you and your anti-working class folks could go down defending the creep. He offed people without regard that a postal worker or office clerk might get it too. Fuck that. Your argument could be taken to rationalizing all those workers dying in the WTC, just so about a dozen Cantor-Fitzgerald ruling class pigs could be taken out. Killing for ideology IS a bourgeios idea. Ted was just doing what he learned watching on TV as a kid. Terrorisitic might makes right. By watching McNamara bombing Cambodia on the evening news. Ted doesn't have an *organizer* or articulate bone in his body. He was just doing what he learned. Fuck him AND McNamara too.
And for that matter, fuck the media darling Zerzan and his lame, flawed critique and his misanthropic dogma.
Long live humanity in it's revolutionary struggle for a classless world community! Down with self-hatred, speciesist or otherwise!
Freddy
Next, if Kacynski didn't get it from the state, us workers would have taken the fucker out permanently. If office workers getting blown away or losing their hands are O.K. to you, then you and your anti-working class folks could go down defending the creep. He offed people without regard that a postal worker or office clerk might get it too. Fuck that. Your argument could be taken to rationalizing all those workers dying in the WTC, just so about a dozen Cantor-Fitzgerald ruling class pigs could be taken out. Killing for ideology IS a bourgeios idea. Ted was just doing what he learned watching on TV as a kid. Terrorisitic might makes right. By watching McNamara bombing Cambodia on the evening news. Ted doesn't have an *organizer* or articulate bone in his body. He was just doing what he learned. Fuck him AND McNamara too.
And for that matter, fuck the media darling Zerzan and his lame, flawed critique and his misanthropic dogma.
Long live humanity in it's revolutionary struggle for a classless world community! Down with self-hatred, speciesist or otherwise!
Freddy
first off.
primitivism isnt anti-human, civilization is anti-human.
leftist who reject these critiques of power and domination will are whole heartedly accepting responsable for the extinction of humans (along with coultless other species).
we arent proposing to "go back" (imposible to do) but rather to move forward, recognize or utter failures and move on. the vast majority of human existance has not been characterized by the destruction and annilation modern life presents us with.
many things are fundamentally wrong with the structure, the foundation, the systems of power themselves. we dont need new management team (communist-socialist-capitialist) regardless of how decentralized and radically democratic (which is still a form of government) they might be.
wew are all breaking down in everysphere mental and physical. we are killing ourselves in every concievable way be it cities, anti-depressants, work, weed, time, coffee, industialism, pesticides, cars, religion, morality, anarch-ism, or tv.
it all has to go. and it has to go now. those hell bent and unwilling to release their symbolic civilized securities can burn with their cities, cars and computers.
i for one will shed a tear when the match is struck, but i wont be sorry.
primitivism isnt anti-human, civilization is anti-human.
leftist who reject these critiques of power and domination will are whole heartedly accepting responsable for the extinction of humans (along with coultless other species).
we arent proposing to "go back" (imposible to do) but rather to move forward, recognize or utter failures and move on. the vast majority of human existance has not been characterized by the destruction and annilation modern life presents us with.
many things are fundamentally wrong with the structure, the foundation, the systems of power themselves. we dont need new management team (communist-socialist-capitialist) regardless of how decentralized and radically democratic (which is still a form of government) they might be.
wew are all breaking down in everysphere mental and physical. we are killing ourselves in every concievable way be it cities, anti-depressants, work, weed, time, coffee, industialism, pesticides, cars, religion, morality, anarch-ism, or tv.
it all has to go. and it has to go now. those hell bent and unwilling to release their symbolic civilized securities can burn with their cities, cars and computers.
i for one will shed a tear when the match is struck, but i wont be sorry.
in one breath there is primitivism as pro-human,then at the end you say that people can burn in their cities,if you like primitive society(which still is civilized )go into the fucking forest and live dont burn down the place where people dont agree with you,thats what anti-human about primitivism,if dont you like it,burn.this is where anarchists and primitvists part,anarchist want everyone to be happy no matter city or rural,as long as they live without a heirarchy to opress,primitivists(seem) to want their way or no way.anarchists will fight the dogmatists until they're bones are dust.dogmatists no matter how far left post left or right are ideological fascists,who desirve the same fate,destruction,by any means necessary.
i think that in a state of anarchy that primitivists can live with those who want to stay in the established centers of society,direct worker control of production will result in better ecological standard and cut down on the enviromental disasters of capitalist industry.
those who hate civilization,create your own society or community(semantics) dont force your ideology on people,its fascism,and only proves that primitivism is anti-human and not anarchist.
in struggle,
~soyleche!~
i think that in a state of anarchy that primitivists can live with those who want to stay in the established centers of society,direct worker control of production will result in better ecological standard and cut down on the enviromental disasters of capitalist industry.
those who hate civilization,create your own society or community(semantics) dont force your ideology on people,its fascism,and only proves that primitivism is anti-human and not anarchist.
in struggle,
~soyleche!~
i wont allow you or anyone else wishing to reform power and its manifestations of domination, to kill everything off. civilization is collapsing as we speak, it was never ment to last. it is fundamntally flawed, by definition it has attemped to force order upon the uncontrolable, it has steped out of the wild chaotic harmony of autonomy ans sponteneityof action. it will come back down to chaos. this is undebatable. the question is what the world will look like when it happens. will it take everything with it, or be allowed to recycle? These are yet to be said.
you are tragiclly nieve to think that the blessed worker control of production would magicly lead to ecological awarness.
"cut down on envornmental disasters"! are you joking, you are mearly slowing down the rate of destruction, the endpoint of ecological catastorophy will simply be postponed a few decades.
your will to co-opt power (civilization; even industry i believe you said) and decentalize it (which isnt anrchist by any means) is absolutly the best thing you could do for the system itself.
city and rural "life" is a direct exemplification of humans will to dominate nature and domesticate it and ourselves in the process. civlization and all of its manifestations of power (class, race, production, technology, alienation form real experience of a face to face community) is wholly incomapatable with anarchy (the rejection of power and domination as a matter of principle) and the desire for free, wild autonomy.
the earth can live without us, but we cannot live with out the earth. you may have to find that out the hard way. everyone of YOUR cities, houses, and the clearcuts need to build it, industries, fields of corn, highways, and power plant is strangling the earth and devestating its liveblood, soil. Soil destriction will be the end of humans as a species. your acceptance of this it the acceptance of the genocide of humans (of course abong others). we cannot live with civilization (agriculture) all who are not destroying this power and helping to perpetuate it.
i will fight for life, no compromises. even if that means the death of sacred "humans" (or the robots disguized as reformers disguized as anarchists) ove the extinction of humans or any other species.
yes people would die if civilization happend to disapear tonight (its not going to be quite that rapid) but millions would be spared the collateral damage of car "acidents", industral "deposits", and the hundreds of forms of cancer produced by civilized "food" and "medicine".
the mass die offs that those hysterical dependets describe are not based in reality. in all actuallity the pobulation would begin to fall naturally from people simpling having a more fufilling life with out the pressures of modern life then not being replaced when they eventually die, and as well as the freedom wymens would enjoy from the "family unit" roles imposed upon them. there would simple be too many interesting things to do that setteling down would be undesirable.
(soy is the most widely geneticlly enginered crop, not to mention the wiping out of the brazilian rain forests to plant so bean crops in steed of raisning cattle. so enjoy your cancer and you full support of the death of wild forests!)
enJOY
you are tragiclly nieve to think that the blessed worker control of production would magicly lead to ecological awarness.
"cut down on envornmental disasters"! are you joking, you are mearly slowing down the rate of destruction, the endpoint of ecological catastorophy will simply be postponed a few decades.
your will to co-opt power (civilization; even industry i believe you said) and decentalize it (which isnt anrchist by any means) is absolutly the best thing you could do for the system itself.
city and rural "life" is a direct exemplification of humans will to dominate nature and domesticate it and ourselves in the process. civlization and all of its manifestations of power (class, race, production, technology, alienation form real experience of a face to face community) is wholly incomapatable with anarchy (the rejection of power and domination as a matter of principle) and the desire for free, wild autonomy.
the earth can live without us, but we cannot live with out the earth. you may have to find that out the hard way. everyone of YOUR cities, houses, and the clearcuts need to build it, industries, fields of corn, highways, and power plant is strangling the earth and devestating its liveblood, soil. Soil destriction will be the end of humans as a species. your acceptance of this it the acceptance of the genocide of humans (of course abong others). we cannot live with civilization (agriculture) all who are not destroying this power and helping to perpetuate it.
i will fight for life, no compromises. even if that means the death of sacred "humans" (or the robots disguized as reformers disguized as anarchists) ove the extinction of humans or any other species.
yes people would die if civilization happend to disapear tonight (its not going to be quite that rapid) but millions would be spared the collateral damage of car "acidents", industral "deposits", and the hundreds of forms of cancer produced by civilized "food" and "medicine".
the mass die offs that those hysterical dependets describe are not based in reality. in all actuallity the pobulation would begin to fall naturally from people simpling having a more fufilling life with out the pressures of modern life then not being replaced when they eventually die, and as well as the freedom wymens would enjoy from the "family unit" roles imposed upon them. there would simple be too many interesting things to do that setteling down would be undesirable.
(soy is the most widely geneticlly enginered crop, not to mention the wiping out of the brazilian rain forests to plant so bean crops in steed of raisning cattle. so enjoy your cancer and you full support of the death of wild forests!)
enJOY
so who is the true anti-human species traitor
i would call myself a species traitor,
but all things considered, really you are.
i would call myself a species traitor,
but all things considered, really you are.
crazy crazy. stir the pot, hopefully we can all come out with something new here.
I thought people on this list are just young and inexperienced in the ways of ideas, living in the world and reflecting deeply on their experiences, let alone trying to grapple with things using the intellectual *tool kit* of theory. Oh yeah I forgot, *me Tarzan, you Jane, thinking suck!*
And I started to think that the accusation of *fascist* was being bandied around a little too freely----until I saw this gem by *Enjoy*:
>i will fight for life, no compromises. even if that means the >death of sacred "humans" (or the robots disguized as >reformers disguized as anarchists) ove the extinction of >humans or any other species.
Now my *profile* of Enjoy is late teens in age, upper middle class in socio-economic background, probably wrote it in a flash without really thinking about her/his post because of the awful diction-----oh yeah----a boy definitely and MORE DEFINATELY white. Probably living in the suburbs in America's heartland, even if that means over the East Bay Hills. Because I've never met a *person of color* who wants to see anything but improvement in their living conditions. They certainly don't want you whiteys coming in, telling them they breed too much, torching their 'hood and then telling them that their already impoverished life is gonna get a helluva lot worse. OH YEAH, I forgot, you'll start whacking them too to help enable your noble *ecological carrying capacity.* Now think about that----white people telling others how to live. Doesn't that sound a lot like the slavery that brought people from Africa here in the first place? Or *manifest destiny* which is really the lie trying to hide genocide. Or, with your worship of death when you say *...even if that means the death of sacred 'humans'...* it sounds like the classical death fetish of fascism, with sadistic pleasure of your power, a la Pol Pot, to chose who lives and who dies. Doesn't seem much different than what the KKK has been doing to keep racial hatred alive too. Except you're keeping hatred alive for anyone you arbitrarily don't like.
You're like the insect that preys on the life-affirming body of the living. Do us all a favor and squash yourself Enjoy.
Mr. Slate
And I started to think that the accusation of *fascist* was being bandied around a little too freely----until I saw this gem by *Enjoy*:
>i will fight for life, no compromises. even if that means the >death of sacred "humans" (or the robots disguized as >reformers disguized as anarchists) ove the extinction of >humans or any other species.
Now my *profile* of Enjoy is late teens in age, upper middle class in socio-economic background, probably wrote it in a flash without really thinking about her/his post because of the awful diction-----oh yeah----a boy definitely and MORE DEFINATELY white. Probably living in the suburbs in America's heartland, even if that means over the East Bay Hills. Because I've never met a *person of color* who wants to see anything but improvement in their living conditions. They certainly don't want you whiteys coming in, telling them they breed too much, torching their 'hood and then telling them that their already impoverished life is gonna get a helluva lot worse. OH YEAH, I forgot, you'll start whacking them too to help enable your noble *ecological carrying capacity.* Now think about that----white people telling others how to live. Doesn't that sound a lot like the slavery that brought people from Africa here in the first place? Or *manifest destiny* which is really the lie trying to hide genocide. Or, with your worship of death when you say *...even if that means the death of sacred 'humans'...* it sounds like the classical death fetish of fascism, with sadistic pleasure of your power, a la Pol Pot, to chose who lives and who dies. Doesn't seem much different than what the KKK has been doing to keep racial hatred alive too. Except you're keeping hatred alive for anyone you arbitrarily don't like.
You're like the insect that preys on the life-affirming body of the living. Do us all a favor and squash yourself Enjoy.
Mr. Slate
you were right about the penis, however that hardly makes me a boy, i am anything but.
i am a native american, wild indian, red negro. i hapen to be 24. i wasnt raised in the suburbs by any means. it was a reservation in arizona then my father decided to leave and move to soutern Utah after my mother comited suicide.
when my father died from alcohol poisoning i was 15, courts had me move into a foster home, i got kicked out for drugs, sent to another where i tried to kill myself twice (obviously a failure) and finally became 18 then ran off and ended up in california.
i and the "anarcho-primitivists" if you want to us that, (simply anarchists) are not telling you what to do. that is the whole point. your telling us to work, to be a cog in your production line, accept your destruction of the earth, accept species extinction (humans included), extinction of a species is the highs crime on eath it cant even be juged in relation to a death of a single member of a given species. your anthropocentrism is what has spawned this seperation form nature (and ourselves and eachother) and then the domestication/destruction of it.
we have no ideology. we believe simply in nonpower realations (autonomy) and we defend that on every front.
i was angy when i wrote that stuff, but i am sick and tired of people speaking for the "working class" they (who i have actually had physical contact with) dont give a fuck about who runs the factory, it is work itself, production that is the problem; work is death for them. work is killing them in every sense of the word. they want life, real life. they are quite open to these "new" ideas, or the understanding that the world wasnt always liek this. in fact life in this manor is quite new.
you are so increadibly non-radical and ignorant. we want to abolish power in all of its manifestations, not (like you and the leftists who recive progress, technology and power with open arms) ro reform it and co-opt with domination. your critique of power is unbelieveably shallow.
we the 1st world anarchist (anrcho-primitivists/green anarchists) are fused with the indigenous struggles around the world. we are fighting civilization. you (anyone who accepts civilization/power/domestication) are the enemy.
we cave no platform, no ideology. we ar not dogmatic, we are simply angry (symptom of modern breakdown) you offer nothing to nobody. we are not telling anyone how to live, we are not proposing to start gathering and hunting tomorow. we have no idea what the move away from this mess WILL look like but dependence upon technology and civilization is suicide. otgether we are rewilding ourselves.
it is you who are dogmatic and close minded. you refuse to by critical of your own securities, I/we have thrown all into constant critique, including ourselves.
you can plug your ears and close your eyes but civilization is coming down whether you like or not. i would get out of the way if i were you or it will take you with it.
for the destruction of civilization and th reconnection to life.
beter dead than domesicated
my heros always killed cowboys!!
enJOY
i am a native american, wild indian, red negro. i hapen to be 24. i wasnt raised in the suburbs by any means. it was a reservation in arizona then my father decided to leave and move to soutern Utah after my mother comited suicide.
when my father died from alcohol poisoning i was 15, courts had me move into a foster home, i got kicked out for drugs, sent to another where i tried to kill myself twice (obviously a failure) and finally became 18 then ran off and ended up in california.
i and the "anarcho-primitivists" if you want to us that, (simply anarchists) are not telling you what to do. that is the whole point. your telling us to work, to be a cog in your production line, accept your destruction of the earth, accept species extinction (humans included), extinction of a species is the highs crime on eath it cant even be juged in relation to a death of a single member of a given species. your anthropocentrism is what has spawned this seperation form nature (and ourselves and eachother) and then the domestication/destruction of it.
we have no ideology. we believe simply in nonpower realations (autonomy) and we defend that on every front.
i was angy when i wrote that stuff, but i am sick and tired of people speaking for the "working class" they (who i have actually had physical contact with) dont give a fuck about who runs the factory, it is work itself, production that is the problem; work is death for them. work is killing them in every sense of the word. they want life, real life. they are quite open to these "new" ideas, or the understanding that the world wasnt always liek this. in fact life in this manor is quite new.
you are so increadibly non-radical and ignorant. we want to abolish power in all of its manifestations, not (like you and the leftists who recive progress, technology and power with open arms) ro reform it and co-opt with domination. your critique of power is unbelieveably shallow.
we the 1st world anarchist (anrcho-primitivists/green anarchists) are fused with the indigenous struggles around the world. we are fighting civilization. you (anyone who accepts civilization/power/domestication) are the enemy.
we cave no platform, no ideology. we ar not dogmatic, we are simply angry (symptom of modern breakdown) you offer nothing to nobody. we are not telling anyone how to live, we are not proposing to start gathering and hunting tomorow. we have no idea what the move away from this mess WILL look like but dependence upon technology and civilization is suicide. otgether we are rewilding ourselves.
it is you who are dogmatic and close minded. you refuse to by critical of your own securities, I/we have thrown all into constant critique, including ourselves.
you can plug your ears and close your eyes but civilization is coming down whether you like or not. i would get out of the way if i were you or it will take you with it.
for the destruction of civilization and th reconnection to life.
beter dead than domesicated
my heros always killed cowboys!!
enJOY
my ancestors didn't kill anyone except at as a very, very last resort and in self-defense. which meant on the native-american side of my family, there were times when they had to fight cavalries, settlers, vigilante mobs and wanton killers. it was NEVER purely ethnically based, as yours was. anyway, even some of my native ancestors--and as did some my european settler ancestors--worked in the disgusting cattle industry, and luckily none of your ancestors killed them for that. i guess it would be like living in east oaktown today and proudly saying that you only kill the ice cream man or pge gas meter reader.
anyway, according to oaktown writer ismael reed, 40% of cowboys were african-american. so for every 5 of your ancestors kills, 2 were black. buffalo soldiers. certainly did nothing for solidarity with ex-slaves. maybe just exacerbated racism. but i guess like not being able to make an omlette without breaking some eggs, you can't *fight for the earth* without a little racist killing. i told myself that i wouldn't ask this, but here goes: how are you really any different than the nazis?
Barney
anyway, according to oaktown writer ismael reed, 40% of cowboys were african-american. so for every 5 of your ancestors kills, 2 were black. buffalo soldiers. certainly did nothing for solidarity with ex-slaves. maybe just exacerbated racism. but i guess like not being able to make an omlette without breaking some eggs, you can't *fight for the earth* without a little racist killing. i told myself that i wouldn't ask this, but here goes: how are you really any different than the nazis?
Barney
Nazism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Nazism or National Socialism (German Nationalsozialismus) refers to the politics of the dictatorship which ruled Germany from 1933 to 1945, "the Third Reich". Nazism is commonly associated with Fascism. The Nazis claimed to espouse a nationalist totalitarian form of socialism (as opposed to Marxist international socialism). However, in the words of Massimo Salvadori, "By majority consent of both socialists and non-socialists, National Socialism (Nazism) and kindred movements are not considered to be socialist." Nevertheless, some (particularly right-wing groups wishing to discredit socialism) refer to Nazism as being socialist.
The dictator Adolf Hitler rose to power as leader of a political party, the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP for short). Germany during this period is also referred to as Nazi Germany. Adherents of Nazism were called Nazis. Nazism has been outlawed in modern Germany, although tiny remnants, known as Neo-Nazis, continue to operate in Germany and abroad. Some historical revisionists disseminate propaganda which denies or minimizes the Holocaust and other Nazi acts, and attempts to put a positive spin on the policies of the Nazi regime and the events which occurred under it.
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Primitivism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
See also Primitivism (art movement)
Primitivism is a philosophy advocating a return to a pre-industrial and usually pre-agricultural society. It is usually considered to be an anarchist philosophy.
Primitivism can also refer to any philosophy which seeks to return to the roots of a larger movement, such as Muslims and Christians who seek to return to the first few centuries of Islam or Christianity.
Primitivism believes that industrial society inevitably produces oppressive structures through specialization of tasks or division of labor, and that technology has similar negative implications. Some forms of primitivism question civilization itself.
The primitivist movement has connections to radical environmentalism.
Primitivism has been notably advocated by John Zerzan, and to some extent by Theodore Kaczynski (the Unabomber) and Derrick Jensen.
During the 1990s the UK magazine Green Anarchist aligned itself with the primitivist movement, although there are many who would describe themselves as 'green anarchists' who would not see themselves as subscribing to this philosophy.
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hope that clears things up.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Nazism or National Socialism (German Nationalsozialismus) refers to the politics of the dictatorship which ruled Germany from 1933 to 1945, "the Third Reich". Nazism is commonly associated with Fascism. The Nazis claimed to espouse a nationalist totalitarian form of socialism (as opposed to Marxist international socialism). However, in the words of Massimo Salvadori, "By majority consent of both socialists and non-socialists, National Socialism (Nazism) and kindred movements are not considered to be socialist." Nevertheless, some (particularly right-wing groups wishing to discredit socialism) refer to Nazism as being socialist.
The dictator Adolf Hitler rose to power as leader of a political party, the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP for short). Germany during this period is also referred to as Nazi Germany. Adherents of Nazism were called Nazis. Nazism has been outlawed in modern Germany, although tiny remnants, known as Neo-Nazis, continue to operate in Germany and abroad. Some historical revisionists disseminate propaganda which denies or minimizes the Holocaust and other Nazi acts, and attempts to put a positive spin on the policies of the Nazi regime and the events which occurred under it.
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Primitivism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
See also Primitivism (art movement)
Primitivism is a philosophy advocating a return to a pre-industrial and usually pre-agricultural society. It is usually considered to be an anarchist philosophy.
Primitivism can also refer to any philosophy which seeks to return to the roots of a larger movement, such as Muslims and Christians who seek to return to the first few centuries of Islam or Christianity.
Primitivism believes that industrial society inevitably produces oppressive structures through specialization of tasks or division of labor, and that technology has similar negative implications. Some forms of primitivism question civilization itself.
The primitivist movement has connections to radical environmentalism.
Primitivism has been notably advocated by John Zerzan, and to some extent by Theodore Kaczynski (the Unabomber) and Derrick Jensen.
During the 1990s the UK magazine Green Anarchist aligned itself with the primitivist movement, although there are many who would describe themselves as 'green anarchists' who would not see themselves as subscribing to this philosophy.
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hope that clears things up.
there is no 'green anarchist' or 'anarcho-primitivist' ideology.
Anarchists are essentially defined by a desire and actions towards a way of life that is defined by what is not present. Anarchy essentially means 'anti-authoritarian', and as is easy to see, that means different things all across the board. There is no single 'anarchist' vision.
The '-isms' used here are for conventional reasons only, to identify with a larger critique. Anarchists are those seeking a world free of domination, hierarchies: meaning the abolition of all state power. The 'green' prefix points to an extension of what those authoritarian structures are, namely pointing more towards technology, industrialism, and civilization itself (although these three categories do not apply to all 'green anarchists'). (see below for more on the various 'factions' of ga)
Ideology is a rigid belief system that carries its constituent through all realms of thought. It has a critique, plan of action and vision, embodied by organizations, platforms, and so on. A part of the green anarchist critique has been an understanding of the role of these kinds of 'group-think' institutions. The left holds strong to ideology as a means to further revolution, while we feel that such a complete package doesn't seek to awaken people to their own potential, but only gives them something new to regurgitate. We feel that ideology is a tool of civilization, a part of the totality of civilized thought that keeps people in a constant droned state. Our interests are in bringing about a world of autonomous beings, not automatons.
This has given the leftists reason to criticize green anarchists for not being 'organized' and having only loose visions. However, we feel that this is an important step if we are to again be full beings.
enJOY
Anarchists are essentially defined by a desire and actions towards a way of life that is defined by what is not present. Anarchy essentially means 'anti-authoritarian', and as is easy to see, that means different things all across the board. There is no single 'anarchist' vision.
The '-isms' used here are for conventional reasons only, to identify with a larger critique. Anarchists are those seeking a world free of domination, hierarchies: meaning the abolition of all state power. The 'green' prefix points to an extension of what those authoritarian structures are, namely pointing more towards technology, industrialism, and civilization itself (although these three categories do not apply to all 'green anarchists'). (see below for more on the various 'factions' of ga)
Ideology is a rigid belief system that carries its constituent through all realms of thought. It has a critique, plan of action and vision, embodied by organizations, platforms, and so on. A part of the green anarchist critique has been an understanding of the role of these kinds of 'group-think' institutions. The left holds strong to ideology as a means to further revolution, while we feel that such a complete package doesn't seek to awaken people to their own potential, but only gives them something new to regurgitate. We feel that ideology is a tool of civilization, a part of the totality of civilized thought that keeps people in a constant droned state. Our interests are in bringing about a world of autonomous beings, not automatons.
This has given the leftists reason to criticize green anarchists for not being 'organized' and having only loose visions. However, we feel that this is an important step if we are to again be full beings.
enJOY
what's with the computer?
as i said on the other zerzan thread
this is a common point many point out:
that we shold not use technology or be in civilization if we want to formulate critiques of them. (same demands made of all critical of america, huh funny)
our abstenance from technology and civilization will not end its devistation
also it is everywhere, it is inescapable and this is precisly the problem, the sysem is built to force us into dependance upon it, local autonomy and sustainablity is its antithesis.
it would be stupid to willingly handicap ourselves in our struggle; by any and all means neccessary my friend.
the avoildance of the extreamly detremental technologies are avoilded for mantal health and to lessen alienation from real experience.
this isnt some new set of moral laws we are trying to abide by or push on others. clasic of the left to try and force everyone into moral boxes of theory and action.
i am glad you critical of me, i wish you might applay that same crtique to yourself and leftist ideology and apply it to ideology it self.
we are as critical of ourselves as we are of anything else. we are tring to rid ourselvses of abstractions, ideals, and programs that are placed above life, autonomy and the liberation of desire. that is how we got into this mess. we the rejects such obvious programs of God, the State, nationalism, collectivism, democracy, communism, capitalism, power, domesication, and especially those of anarchism, and anrcho-primitivism. the whole idea is to free ourselves from all that take away from experience of ourselves, of eachother, and the world around us (none of this are seperate).
enJOY
this is a common point many point out:
that we shold not use technology or be in civilization if we want to formulate critiques of them. (same demands made of all critical of america, huh funny)
our abstenance from technology and civilization will not end its devistation
also it is everywhere, it is inescapable and this is precisly the problem, the sysem is built to force us into dependance upon it, local autonomy and sustainablity is its antithesis.
it would be stupid to willingly handicap ourselves in our struggle; by any and all means neccessary my friend.
the avoildance of the extreamly detremental technologies are avoilded for mantal health and to lessen alienation from real experience.
this isnt some new set of moral laws we are trying to abide by or push on others. clasic of the left to try and force everyone into moral boxes of theory and action.
i am glad you critical of me, i wish you might applay that same crtique to yourself and leftist ideology and apply it to ideology it self.
we are as critical of ourselves as we are of anything else. we are tring to rid ourselvses of abstractions, ideals, and programs that are placed above life, autonomy and the liberation of desire. that is how we got into this mess. we the rejects such obvious programs of God, the State, nationalism, collectivism, democracy, communism, capitalism, power, domesication, and especially those of anarchism, and anrcho-primitivism. the whole idea is to free ourselves from all that take away from experience of ourselves, of eachother, and the world around us (none of this are seperate).
enJOY
you cats are obviously faking the funk,seriously.
no collective(ism)how in the fuck are you suppost to have a method to redistribute power?
primitivists are fucking lame ass hypocrites,
screaming "we hate technology" typing that message on a computer,but you have to live in the civilization,so you have to reap the benefits of technology dont you.you dont make too much sense,like luddite websites.
what is you idea of the future?it seems like some mad max fantasy where the cities are burned millions are displaced without the proper agricultural base to support such mass movement,then without food they die,millions.
not all are killed through starving,an elite vanguard will survive and liberate them from food and want cause they are dead.
the rotting bodies will never be buried,but you can live without the computer that you are typing on,or the house you are living in,or the food that is pre-prepared so you dont have to starve,or any of the comforts that people who really want to be free without the monetary cost of it can have.
you are no different that authoritarians,you use the guise of anarchy like vegan reich does(though i do like the band though)authoritarian liquidation of the undesireables.im glad that your self righteous moralism comples you to burn down cities and be massive hypocrites(not in the crimethinc way)using technology while denouncing it.i'd be more apt to believe in primitivism if you didnt use your computer and had a community(semantic:civil society:civilization) where i could go and see that it can work.when i helped bring green anarchy to fresno,joy was a model of some of them,angry and surly with a less than cohesive arguement that broke down into childish name calling and half truths when confronted of the fact that most live in cities and would require the death of many for the (quazi)comfort of the few.
joy and any other "primitivists" i invite you to come to occupied territory gathering in june to talk about primitivism or a case against a responsible labor organizing that can be enviromentally friendly if the right habit of production is siezed and implimented.come i personally invite you to come to the mountains and hook up with nature and get out of the city we both hate(i would rather see a tree or a ocean more than a awkward city),and disuss our future without heirarchy AND coercion.
~soymilk!~
no collective(ism)how in the fuck are you suppost to have a method to redistribute power?
primitivists are fucking lame ass hypocrites,
screaming "we hate technology" typing that message on a computer,but you have to live in the civilization,so you have to reap the benefits of technology dont you.you dont make too much sense,like luddite websites.
what is you idea of the future?it seems like some mad max fantasy where the cities are burned millions are displaced without the proper agricultural base to support such mass movement,then without food they die,millions.
not all are killed through starving,an elite vanguard will survive and liberate them from food and want cause they are dead.
the rotting bodies will never be buried,but you can live without the computer that you are typing on,or the house you are living in,or the food that is pre-prepared so you dont have to starve,or any of the comforts that people who really want to be free without the monetary cost of it can have.
you are no different that authoritarians,you use the guise of anarchy like vegan reich does(though i do like the band though)authoritarian liquidation of the undesireables.im glad that your self righteous moralism comples you to burn down cities and be massive hypocrites(not in the crimethinc way)using technology while denouncing it.i'd be more apt to believe in primitivism if you didnt use your computer and had a community(semantic:civil society:civilization) where i could go and see that it can work.when i helped bring green anarchy to fresno,joy was a model of some of them,angry and surly with a less than cohesive arguement that broke down into childish name calling and half truths when confronted of the fact that most live in cities and would require the death of many for the (quazi)comfort of the few.
joy and any other "primitivists" i invite you to come to occupied territory gathering in june to talk about primitivism or a case against a responsible labor organizing that can be enviromentally friendly if the right habit of production is siezed and implimented.come i personally invite you to come to the mountains and hook up with nature and get out of the city we both hate(i would rather see a tree or a ocean more than a awkward city),and disuss our future without heirarchy AND coercion.
~soymilk!~
For more information:
http://www.occupiedterritory.net
we reject these concepts when they become served above the real things in the world, that spilt form unmediated authentic experience of eachother and the world around us laid the groundword for the institutionalization of power and domination in religion, agriculture, language, number, division of labor, and anthropocentrism.
again, get it through you head, WE ARE NOT PURPOSING TO REDISTRIBUTE POWER!! dual power is reform of power, we want to destroy all power, (the only power is no power)
we are not "reaping the benifits of technology" as you said, there are no benifits, it is an ideology of totalitarian totality which make liveng outside imposible (monolpoly of land, and poisoning water with it antidepressants and pesticides). the bad parts cannot be seperated from the "good".
it is not hypocritical (this is exactly like crimethinc) if we are NOT drawing out some sort of ideology or morality to follow and serve; which we are not. you just dont get it.
technology is a totality, bigger than that of any individual pieces you like to look at like tv's, computers, and guns; none of these can be seperated form the whole production and industry. it depends on domination of nature, alienation, forced labor (worker controled or not), factories, massproduction, stripmines, it depends on the destruction of the earth to continue. there is no way reform it its problems are with its foundations upon power and division of labor, trying to green it up will only prolong its inevitable death and allow it to talke everything out with it.
of course, obviosly we will need same small scale sustainable permaculture in our move away from civilization. again you keep trying to draw moral lines from our crtiques, we see that as absolutly authoritatin and reject that will to build ideology. everyone is capable of growing their own food. small areas are able to produce large quantities of vegitables, we want to provide people with knowledge that they can break out of dependence on the beast, btu we need to protect eachother and destroy what is trying to kill sustainable life.
<<it seems like some mad max fantasy where the cities are burned millions are displaced without the proper agricultural base to support such mass movement,then without food they die,millions>>
you and your leftist counterparts keep screaming about you dependance upon the death culture of technology and industiral agriculture. we believe that like events in the 60's and in new york 77 spontaneous communities of joy, sharing and simply watching our for and taking care of one another would emerge out of insurection and the "turning off of the power".
(these are crimethinc ideas; of which i am a writer, though the collective that puts most everything censors many of our writers work and throws shit in 'days of war' in on merely surviving in and accepting industrial civilization and not destroying its totality. although much slips through)
your right i can live with out a computer (its not mine, it's the library's) however it can be used to further this dicussion and critique (case could definatily be made that we arnt, hopefully you will think about these things). this doesnt disqualify my thoughts on technology as a whole.
my abandoning computers doesnt make them any less destructive or existant.
i live in no house, actually i travel and camp around stay with people sometimes, i physically cant be in houses or buildings for very long i get hedaches and nausea.
but really there is so much food around if you only looked or knew what to look for. there is an abundance of wild foods even in urban settings but civilization and development are killing them off rendering everything its maw touches into poison.
you, a self proclaimed 'anarchist' and 'crimethinker', are equaiting technology, insustainable housing, processed food and "convience" in the modern world with freedom, this is the inherent authoritarianism imbeded into leftist ideology, the devistation you cling to.
your right, food is held for ransom by economics, we simply want to free everything from those demening relationships of power in favor of one based on mutual aid, sharing, and play.
again nobody is purposing the liquidation of anyone, or you homes.
civilization and agriculture are imposing the liquidation of humans and of the earth as are you if you are aligning yourself with its progress and trajectory.
the cities are already falling apart
<i'd be more apt to believe in primitivism if you didnt use your computer and had a community(semantic:civil society:civilization) where i could go and see that it can work. when i helped bring green anarchy to fresno, joy was a model of some of them,angry and surly with a less than cohesive arguement that broke down into childish name calling and half truths when confronted of the fact that most live in cities and would require the death of many for the (quazi)comfort of the few.>
what, i was name calling? i was on the recieving end.
i would urge you to read some antropology if you are not convinced "IT" can work. it has work for millions of years, is still in work in many places around the world.
it is a little unrealistic to demand that we live in a primal way in the shell of civilization. that imposible, is why we apose it and fight to destroy it.
<joy and any other "primitivists" i invite you to come to occupied territory gathering in june to talk about primitivism or a case against a responsible labor organizing that can be enviromentally friendly if the right habit of production is siezed and implimented. come i personally invite you to come to the mountains and hook up with nature and get out of the city we both hate (i would rather see a tree or a ocean more than a awkward city), and disuss our future without heirarchy AND coercion.>
ill be there.
i would love to talk.
i told you i reject primitivism, i use it merely to point to comman critiques of deeper power relationships.
enJOY
again, get it through you head, WE ARE NOT PURPOSING TO REDISTRIBUTE POWER!! dual power is reform of power, we want to destroy all power, (the only power is no power)
we are not "reaping the benifits of technology" as you said, there are no benifits, it is an ideology of totalitarian totality which make liveng outside imposible (monolpoly of land, and poisoning water with it antidepressants and pesticides). the bad parts cannot be seperated from the "good".
it is not hypocritical (this is exactly like crimethinc) if we are NOT drawing out some sort of ideology or morality to follow and serve; which we are not. you just dont get it.
technology is a totality, bigger than that of any individual pieces you like to look at like tv's, computers, and guns; none of these can be seperated form the whole production and industry. it depends on domination of nature, alienation, forced labor (worker controled or not), factories, massproduction, stripmines, it depends on the destruction of the earth to continue. there is no way reform it its problems are with its foundations upon power and division of labor, trying to green it up will only prolong its inevitable death and allow it to talke everything out with it.
of course, obviosly we will need same small scale sustainable permaculture in our move away from civilization. again you keep trying to draw moral lines from our crtiques, we see that as absolutly authoritatin and reject that will to build ideology. everyone is capable of growing their own food. small areas are able to produce large quantities of vegitables, we want to provide people with knowledge that they can break out of dependence on the beast, btu we need to protect eachother and destroy what is trying to kill sustainable life.
<<it seems like some mad max fantasy where the cities are burned millions are displaced without the proper agricultural base to support such mass movement,then without food they die,millions>>
you and your leftist counterparts keep screaming about you dependance upon the death culture of technology and industiral agriculture. we believe that like events in the 60's and in new york 77 spontaneous communities of joy, sharing and simply watching our for and taking care of one another would emerge out of insurection and the "turning off of the power".
(these are crimethinc ideas; of which i am a writer, though the collective that puts most everything censors many of our writers work and throws shit in 'days of war' in on merely surviving in and accepting industrial civilization and not destroying its totality. although much slips through)
your right i can live with out a computer (its not mine, it's the library's) however it can be used to further this dicussion and critique (case could definatily be made that we arnt, hopefully you will think about these things). this doesnt disqualify my thoughts on technology as a whole.
my abandoning computers doesnt make them any less destructive or existant.
i live in no house, actually i travel and camp around stay with people sometimes, i physically cant be in houses or buildings for very long i get hedaches and nausea.
but really there is so much food around if you only looked or knew what to look for. there is an abundance of wild foods even in urban settings but civilization and development are killing them off rendering everything its maw touches into poison.
you, a self proclaimed 'anarchist' and 'crimethinker', are equaiting technology, insustainable housing, processed food and "convience" in the modern world with freedom, this is the inherent authoritarianism imbeded into leftist ideology, the devistation you cling to.
your right, food is held for ransom by economics, we simply want to free everything from those demening relationships of power in favor of one based on mutual aid, sharing, and play.
again nobody is purposing the liquidation of anyone, or you homes.
civilization and agriculture are imposing the liquidation of humans and of the earth as are you if you are aligning yourself with its progress and trajectory.
the cities are already falling apart
<i'd be more apt to believe in primitivism if you didnt use your computer and had a community(semantic:civil society:civilization) where i could go and see that it can work. when i helped bring green anarchy to fresno, joy was a model of some of them,angry and surly with a less than cohesive arguement that broke down into childish name calling and half truths when confronted of the fact that most live in cities and would require the death of many for the (quazi)comfort of the few.>
what, i was name calling? i was on the recieving end.
i would urge you to read some antropology if you are not convinced "IT" can work. it has work for millions of years, is still in work in many places around the world.
it is a little unrealistic to demand that we live in a primal way in the shell of civilization. that imposible, is why we apose it and fight to destroy it.
<joy and any other "primitivists" i invite you to come to occupied territory gathering in june to talk about primitivism or a case against a responsible labor organizing that can be enviromentally friendly if the right habit of production is siezed and implimented. come i personally invite you to come to the mountains and hook up with nature and get out of the city we both hate (i would rather see a tree or a ocean more than a awkward city), and disuss our future without heirarchy AND coercion.>
ill be there.
i would love to talk.
i told you i reject primitivism, i use it merely to point to comman critiques of deeper power relationships.
enJOY
joy,
if the central collective of crimethinc censors you,cvac wont,if you send us writings of you and your comrades,we will get it published(and all the other accruitriments)
my vision of anarchy is living on a island,building my house that is part of a community,working in the fields with that community and disrtibuting the goods we produce"from each according to need"(which is a marxist idea as you know)
so i dont think that there is a difference between us,just a computer that keeps us alienated from each other.
joy if you can come to fresno soon and talk with me and my comrades then that will be nice,i would like to talk to you face to face.
yours in a world free of charge,
soy.
if the central collective of crimethinc censors you,cvac wont,if you send us writings of you and your comrades,we will get it published(and all the other accruitriments)
my vision of anarchy is living on a island,building my house that is part of a community,working in the fields with that community and disrtibuting the goods we produce"from each according to need"(which is a marxist idea as you know)
so i dont think that there is a difference between us,just a computer that keeps us alienated from each other.
joy if you can come to fresno soon and talk with me and my comrades then that will be nice,i would like to talk to you face to face.
yours in a world free of charge,
soy.
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