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Aristide: 'Marines forced me to leave'
In the end, Jean-Bertrand Aristide left Haiti the same way he came in 10 years ago: at the pleasure of the United States, under escort from the Marines, with the streets of Port-au-Prince at the mercy of former army officers and paramilitary death squad commanders.
How the former priest and champion of Haiti's starving population was pried from office remained the subject of passionate conjecture and bitter accusations as some of Mr Aristide's most influential friends in the US accused the Bush administration of deposing him and taking him to the Central African Republic under conditions tantamount to kidnap.
In a phone call from Bangui, the Central African Republic's capital, Mr Aristide told Maxine Waters, the leader of the Congressional Black Caucus, that he had not resigned. "He told me: 'I was kidnapped by US Marines and forced to leave Haiti. I did not resign'," Ms Waters said. "It's like he's in jail."
Similar accounts were given by Ms Waters' fellow Democratic congressman and Aristide champion, Charles Rangel, and by Randall Robinson of the TransAfrica Forum.
The official version given by the Bush administration suggests it was Mr Aristide who decided to leave after asking the Americans to help him weigh his diminishing options.
Washington says that Mr Aristide contacted the US ambassador James Foley on Saturday night after the White House issued a statement blaming him for the crisis.
He asked the ambassador three questions: What did he think would be best for Haiti? Would the United States guarantee his protection? And could he choose his destination for exile?
At 11pm Mr Foley told Mr Aristide that the Bush administration would ensure his safety but that it felt he should go. Washington claims that Mr Aristide decided to leave, writing a letter of resignation and taking up the US offer.
Ms Waters says that Mr Aristide, his wife Mildred and three others were rushed out of Port-au-Prince by a senior US diplomat under heavy Marine escort. Ms Waters said Mr Aristide was told: "You have to go. You have no choice. You must go and if you don't you will be killed and many Haitians will be killed."
That account was corroborated by a report in the French newspaper Libération, which quoted a concierge at Mr Aristide's residence, Joseph Pierre, saying that the Haitian leader was taken away in the early hours of Sunday by US soldiers.
"White Americans came by helicopter to get him. They also took his bodyguards," he said. "It was around two o'clock in the morning. He didn't want to leave. The American soldiers forced him to. Because they were pointing guns at him, he had to follow them. The Americans are second only to God in terms of strength."
The confusion over Mr Aristide's departure has been heightened by growing accusations that the Bush administration participated in a coup d'etat and did not, as the State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said, participate in a "constitutional" handover of power from a resigning head of state to his temporary replacement, Haiti's chief justice Boniface Alexandre.
"We are just as much a part of this coup d'etat as the rebels, as the looters, or anyone else," said Mr Rangel.
A section of the United States establishment has been antagonistic towards Mr Aristide from the moment he rose to power for the first time in the late 1980s. That antagonism went into abeyance when the Clinton administration restored Mr Aristide to power in 1994 in the wake of a CIA-backed military coup, but has been on the ascendant again ever since.
One of Mr Aristide's most outspoken antagonists, Roger Noriega, is now the assistant secretary for Western Hemisphere Affairs with direct responsibility for Haiti.
As doubts grew about Mr Aristide's commitment to democracy and human rights, the Americans maintained their former ties to the exiled military commanders who are now leading the armed uprising in Haiti, and developed new ones to opposition politicians.
The bulk of Haiti's foreign aid has been cut off since 2001, ostensibly in response to flaws in the 2000 presidential and parliamentary elections. Since the only dispute was over the extent of the victory enjoyed by Mr Aristide and his Lavalas party, it appears that the electoral flaws were used largely as a pretext to cover other concerns - notably Haiti's growing involvement in the trans-shipment of cocaine from Colombia to the United States.
Personal hostility to Mr Aristide was also a likely factor. Professor Jeffrey Sachs of Columbia University, who has followed political developments in Haiti for many years, said of the most recent events: "This is the predictable outcome of Bush administration policies. Since this administration came in, it has refused to deal with [Aristide]. He always said he was ready to compromise."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=496983
In a phone call from Bangui, the Central African Republic's capital, Mr Aristide told Maxine Waters, the leader of the Congressional Black Caucus, that he had not resigned. "He told me: 'I was kidnapped by US Marines and forced to leave Haiti. I did not resign'," Ms Waters said. "It's like he's in jail."
Similar accounts were given by Ms Waters' fellow Democratic congressman and Aristide champion, Charles Rangel, and by Randall Robinson of the TransAfrica Forum.
The official version given by the Bush administration suggests it was Mr Aristide who decided to leave after asking the Americans to help him weigh his diminishing options.
Washington says that Mr Aristide contacted the US ambassador James Foley on Saturday night after the White House issued a statement blaming him for the crisis.
He asked the ambassador three questions: What did he think would be best for Haiti? Would the United States guarantee his protection? And could he choose his destination for exile?
At 11pm Mr Foley told Mr Aristide that the Bush administration would ensure his safety but that it felt he should go. Washington claims that Mr Aristide decided to leave, writing a letter of resignation and taking up the US offer.
Ms Waters says that Mr Aristide, his wife Mildred and three others were rushed out of Port-au-Prince by a senior US diplomat under heavy Marine escort. Ms Waters said Mr Aristide was told: "You have to go. You have no choice. You must go and if you don't you will be killed and many Haitians will be killed."
That account was corroborated by a report in the French newspaper Libération, which quoted a concierge at Mr Aristide's residence, Joseph Pierre, saying that the Haitian leader was taken away in the early hours of Sunday by US soldiers.
"White Americans came by helicopter to get him. They also took his bodyguards," he said. "It was around two o'clock in the morning. He didn't want to leave. The American soldiers forced him to. Because they were pointing guns at him, he had to follow them. The Americans are second only to God in terms of strength."
The confusion over Mr Aristide's departure has been heightened by growing accusations that the Bush administration participated in a coup d'etat and did not, as the State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said, participate in a "constitutional" handover of power from a resigning head of state to his temporary replacement, Haiti's chief justice Boniface Alexandre.
"We are just as much a part of this coup d'etat as the rebels, as the looters, or anyone else," said Mr Rangel.
A section of the United States establishment has been antagonistic towards Mr Aristide from the moment he rose to power for the first time in the late 1980s. That antagonism went into abeyance when the Clinton administration restored Mr Aristide to power in 1994 in the wake of a CIA-backed military coup, but has been on the ascendant again ever since.
One of Mr Aristide's most outspoken antagonists, Roger Noriega, is now the assistant secretary for Western Hemisphere Affairs with direct responsibility for Haiti.
As doubts grew about Mr Aristide's commitment to democracy and human rights, the Americans maintained their former ties to the exiled military commanders who are now leading the armed uprising in Haiti, and developed new ones to opposition politicians.
The bulk of Haiti's foreign aid has been cut off since 2001, ostensibly in response to flaws in the 2000 presidential and parliamentary elections. Since the only dispute was over the extent of the victory enjoyed by Mr Aristide and his Lavalas party, it appears that the electoral flaws were used largely as a pretext to cover other concerns - notably Haiti's growing involvement in the trans-shipment of cocaine from Colombia to the United States.
Personal hostility to Mr Aristide was also a likely factor. Professor Jeffrey Sachs of Columbia University, who has followed political developments in Haiti for many years, said of the most recent events: "This is the predictable outcome of Bush administration policies. Since this administration came in, it has refused to deal with [Aristide]. He always said he was ready to compromise."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=496983
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But first, breaking news. Ousted leader Jean-Bertrand Aristide has said he is the victim of a coup d'etat in Haiti. He joins us now on the phone from the Central African Republic.
Mr. Aristide, thank you for being with us. There have been some very strong allegations made by representatives of you. I want to try to get to the bottom of it. Are you alleging that you were kidnapped by the United States and sent to Africa?
JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE, FMR. PRESIDENT, HAITI: As I said, I called this coup d'etat in a modern way, to have modern kidnapping. And the way I described what happened...
COOPER: Who are you saying has kidnapped you?
ARISTIDE: Forces in Haiti. They were not Haitian forces. They were (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and Americans and Haitians together, acting to surround the airport, my house, the palace. And then, despite of diplomatic conversations we had, despite of all we did in a diplomatic way to prevent them to organize that massacre which would lead to a bloodshed, we had to leave and spent 20 hours in an American plane. And not knowing where we were going with force, until they told us that 20 minutes before they landed in Central African Republic.
COOPER: Mr. Aristide, Mr. Aristide, the night you left, you signed a document in which you said, "For that reason, tonight I am resigning in order to avoid a blood bath. I accept to leave with the hope there will be life and not death."
This is a document you have signed. I have a copy of it here. Are you saying -- did you, in fact, sign this? And what does it mean?
ARISTIDE: Well, I should see what they give to you, because these people lie. And when they lie, I need to see the paper before saying this is exactly what I wrote. And in what I wrote, I explained that if I am forced to leave to avoid bloodshed, of course I will leave to avoid bloodshed. But as I said, I should see the kind of paper they give to you, because they lied to me, and they may lie to you, too.
COOPER: Well, I have it in French, the document. I could read it to you if you'd like, but it basically, says that "I took an oath to respect and have the constitution respected. This evening, February 28, I'm still determined to respect and have the constitution respected."
It goes on. Are you saying that you wish you were still -- that if it was up to you, you would still be on the ground in Haiti, that you did not leave of your own free will?
ARISTIDE: Exactly that.
COOPER: I have a statement from Secretary of State Colin Powell, who earlier today said, in regards to you, he says, "He was not kidnapped. We did not force him on the airplane. He went on the airplane willingly. And that is the truth."
Are you saying that Colin Powell is lying?
ARISTIDE: He said what he wanted to say. And I told you the truth. If you pay attention to all what I described, you'd see the truth. You will see the huge difference between the two versions.
COOPER: Are you going to seek refuge in the Central African Republic?
ARISTIDE: Well, I am here. So far, I don't have contact with the highest authority in the country. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ministers to meet with me, and I'm very delighted the way they welcomed me here. But I need to have contact with him to know exactly what I should be doing.
COOPER: Why did you go with the Marines? If you are saying you did not go of your own free will, you had your own security detail, quite an extensive security detail. I've seen it up close myself. Why did you leave?
ARISTIDE: I made that point for you. I had 19 Americans providing security to the government, and that (UNINTELLIGIBLE). They were all told and forced to leave based on what (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on February 28.
They were supposed to have the day after 18 of 25 American agents to reinforce (ph) them, based on an agreement which was signed with the Haitian government. They told me that night the U.S. prevented them to go to Haiti.
So on the American side, as on the Haitian side, we all have the same picture. People, foreign people with arms in the streets in Port-au-Prince, surrounding the airport, the palace, my residence, and ready to attack, which would lead to the bloodshed. And we would have thousands of people killed.
We couldn't let that happen. We had the responsibility to protect lives and not to let people kill thousands of people. When now you compare Haiti to what they told me before, they still continue to burn houses, my house, killing people, and waged what they intended to do.
COOPER: Mr. Aristide, was your departure in the best interest of Haiti?
ARISTIDE: Of course not, because no one should force an elected president to move in order to avoid bloodshed. Why they are still killing people, burning houses? And the contradiction in talking is very eloquent.
COOPER: Mr. Aristide, I am having trouble reconciling the two statements, the statements that you have made and the statement the U.S. government has made through Secretary Colin Powell, who, again, has said that you were not kidnapped, that we, the United States, did not force you on to the airplane, that you went on to the airplane willingly. And they say that is the truth. You say -- your story is categorically the opposite of that.
ARISTIDE: Of course, because I am telling you the truth.
COOPER: Why do you believe the American government -- or why are you saying the American government is lying about this?
ARISTIDE: You could ask them the same question, and you can find the answer of your question through the answers I cautiously shared with you.
COOPER: We also want to welcome our international viewers. This is now being aired on CNN International. Mr. Aristide, I want to read a statement. The document I have, which is a signed document, it's in Creole with your signature on it, I'm going to read a translation to you. And I want you to tell me if this is the document that you signed.
This is what I have as the translation from the original Creole: "Jean-Bertrand Aristide" -- it is the letterhead -- "February 7, 2001. I took an oath to respect and have the constitution respected. This evening, 28th of February, 2004, I am still determined to respect and have the constitution respected."
"The constitution is the guarantee of life and peace. The constitution cannot be drowned in the blood of the Haitian people. For that reason, tonight, I am resigning in order to avoid a bloodbath."
"I accept to leave with the hope that there will be life and not death. Life for everyone, death for no one, in respect for the constitution. And in the fact of respecting the constitution, Haiti will have life and peace. Thank you." With your signature.
Did you, in fact, sign this document?
ARISTIDE: No. That's not right. They took out the sentence where I said, "If I am obliged to leave in order to avoid bloodshed." They took that off the document. That's why they are lying to you by giving to you a false document.
COOPER: Well, I'm reading from a translated document. We will have this -- we have the Creole document as well, that we will have it translated as well.
ARISTIDE: Read the Creole. Please, please, please tell the truth. Read the Creole if you can, because they took off the Creole version, exactly what we refer to falsely use...
COOPER: So you are saying on Saturday evening, Marines came to your compound. You did not know they were coming. What exactly happened?
ARISTIDE: Should I say this story again and again? Because I think that I already answered that question.
COOPER: I still am not clear, though. And we have many viewers who have just joined us from around the world. And it is still unclear.
What did you say to them? Did you say, no, I do not want to go? No, I refuse to go? And did they force you into a vehicle? What happened?
ARISTIDE: I will try to answer your question to help people to understand it, but I do believe if you refer to the document you just read, when I told you they refused to translate the central part of it, where I said, "If I am obliged to leave in order to avoid bloodshed." You see, they doctored (ph) the document you have, and the version which you have, because they don't want people to know the kind of forces which were used to make that coup.
COOPER: Well, we can't make any sort of allegations. It is simply a translation of a document. The translation just could be incorrect. I don't really want to go down the road of saying that somebody has altered this document, because we don't know that.
ARISTIDE: OK. They gave you a false document, obviously. When you have a false document in hand, you should not use it, because it is a false document.
COOPER: But again, could you please try to explain what exactly went on? How was it that you were, in your words, kidnapped?
ARISTIDE: OK. When I said that Friday night American military, foreign -- Saturday night, February 28, American military, foreign military, Haitian, well armed, accompanied those foreign forces, surround (ph) the airport, to the palace, my residence. Most of them were in the streets.
And when I could see with my own eyes, it was when I was on my way to the airport and I saw them. The American plane who came straight -- we were in that American plane because Americans had the total control.
When we spent 20 hours in that plane, without knowing where we go, without having the right to contact our people -- and the first lady is an American lady, she didn't have the right even to look through the windows. They told her, "You don't have that right."
When we were (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the plane, we spent 20 hours on the plane. You can't imagine this kind of terrible situation. And that's why, again and again, I am telling the truth. I call it a coup d'etat in a modern way to have modern kidnapping.
COOPER: And Mr. Aristide, you join us from the Central African Republic, where you are staying in the capital in Bangui. Apparently South Africa has said that they would counteroffering you entry to that country as well. Obviously, the future at this point is very unknown.
We appreciate you joining us on CNN and CNN International. Thank you very much, Mr. Aristide.
And again, the statement from Colin Powell earlier today at odds with what Mr. Aristide has just said. Secretary of State Colin Powell said, "He was not kidnapped. We did not force him on to the airplane. He went on to the airplane willingly. And that is the truth." Certainly in the coming days we'll be hearing more and more about this as the details emerge.
Right now in Haiti, rebels are in the capital. Marines are trying to restore order.
Let's go live to CNN's Lucia Newman, who is witnessing both the chaos and some celebration in the streets of Port-au-Prince -- Lucia.
Mr. Aristide, thank you for being with us. There have been some very strong allegations made by representatives of you. I want to try to get to the bottom of it. Are you alleging that you were kidnapped by the United States and sent to Africa?
JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE, FMR. PRESIDENT, HAITI: As I said, I called this coup d'etat in a modern way, to have modern kidnapping. And the way I described what happened...
COOPER: Who are you saying has kidnapped you?
ARISTIDE: Forces in Haiti. They were not Haitian forces. They were (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and Americans and Haitians together, acting to surround the airport, my house, the palace. And then, despite of diplomatic conversations we had, despite of all we did in a diplomatic way to prevent them to organize that massacre which would lead to a bloodshed, we had to leave and spent 20 hours in an American plane. And not knowing where we were going with force, until they told us that 20 minutes before they landed in Central African Republic.
COOPER: Mr. Aristide, Mr. Aristide, the night you left, you signed a document in which you said, "For that reason, tonight I am resigning in order to avoid a blood bath. I accept to leave with the hope there will be life and not death."
This is a document you have signed. I have a copy of it here. Are you saying -- did you, in fact, sign this? And what does it mean?
ARISTIDE: Well, I should see what they give to you, because these people lie. And when they lie, I need to see the paper before saying this is exactly what I wrote. And in what I wrote, I explained that if I am forced to leave to avoid bloodshed, of course I will leave to avoid bloodshed. But as I said, I should see the kind of paper they give to you, because they lied to me, and they may lie to you, too.
COOPER: Well, I have it in French, the document. I could read it to you if you'd like, but it basically, says that "I took an oath to respect and have the constitution respected. This evening, February 28, I'm still determined to respect and have the constitution respected."
It goes on. Are you saying that you wish you were still -- that if it was up to you, you would still be on the ground in Haiti, that you did not leave of your own free will?
ARISTIDE: Exactly that.
COOPER: I have a statement from Secretary of State Colin Powell, who earlier today said, in regards to you, he says, "He was not kidnapped. We did not force him on the airplane. He went on the airplane willingly. And that is the truth."
Are you saying that Colin Powell is lying?
ARISTIDE: He said what he wanted to say. And I told you the truth. If you pay attention to all what I described, you'd see the truth. You will see the huge difference between the two versions.
COOPER: Are you going to seek refuge in the Central African Republic?
ARISTIDE: Well, I am here. So far, I don't have contact with the highest authority in the country. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ministers to meet with me, and I'm very delighted the way they welcomed me here. But I need to have contact with him to know exactly what I should be doing.
COOPER: Why did you go with the Marines? If you are saying you did not go of your own free will, you had your own security detail, quite an extensive security detail. I've seen it up close myself. Why did you leave?
ARISTIDE: I made that point for you. I had 19 Americans providing security to the government, and that (UNINTELLIGIBLE). They were all told and forced to leave based on what (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on February 28.
They were supposed to have the day after 18 of 25 American agents to reinforce (ph) them, based on an agreement which was signed with the Haitian government. They told me that night the U.S. prevented them to go to Haiti.
So on the American side, as on the Haitian side, we all have the same picture. People, foreign people with arms in the streets in Port-au-Prince, surrounding the airport, the palace, my residence, and ready to attack, which would lead to the bloodshed. And we would have thousands of people killed.
We couldn't let that happen. We had the responsibility to protect lives and not to let people kill thousands of people. When now you compare Haiti to what they told me before, they still continue to burn houses, my house, killing people, and waged what they intended to do.
COOPER: Mr. Aristide, was your departure in the best interest of Haiti?
ARISTIDE: Of course not, because no one should force an elected president to move in order to avoid bloodshed. Why they are still killing people, burning houses? And the contradiction in talking is very eloquent.
COOPER: Mr. Aristide, I am having trouble reconciling the two statements, the statements that you have made and the statement the U.S. government has made through Secretary Colin Powell, who, again, has said that you were not kidnapped, that we, the United States, did not force you on to the airplane, that you went on to the airplane willingly. And they say that is the truth. You say -- your story is categorically the opposite of that.
ARISTIDE: Of course, because I am telling you the truth.
COOPER: Why do you believe the American government -- or why are you saying the American government is lying about this?
ARISTIDE: You could ask them the same question, and you can find the answer of your question through the answers I cautiously shared with you.
COOPER: We also want to welcome our international viewers. This is now being aired on CNN International. Mr. Aristide, I want to read a statement. The document I have, which is a signed document, it's in Creole with your signature on it, I'm going to read a translation to you. And I want you to tell me if this is the document that you signed.
This is what I have as the translation from the original Creole: "Jean-Bertrand Aristide" -- it is the letterhead -- "February 7, 2001. I took an oath to respect and have the constitution respected. This evening, 28th of February, 2004, I am still determined to respect and have the constitution respected."
"The constitution is the guarantee of life and peace. The constitution cannot be drowned in the blood of the Haitian people. For that reason, tonight, I am resigning in order to avoid a bloodbath."
"I accept to leave with the hope that there will be life and not death. Life for everyone, death for no one, in respect for the constitution. And in the fact of respecting the constitution, Haiti will have life and peace. Thank you." With your signature.
Did you, in fact, sign this document?
ARISTIDE: No. That's not right. They took out the sentence where I said, "If I am obliged to leave in order to avoid bloodshed." They took that off the document. That's why they are lying to you by giving to you a false document.
COOPER: Well, I'm reading from a translated document. We will have this -- we have the Creole document as well, that we will have it translated as well.
ARISTIDE: Read the Creole. Please, please, please tell the truth. Read the Creole if you can, because they took off the Creole version, exactly what we refer to falsely use...
COOPER: So you are saying on Saturday evening, Marines came to your compound. You did not know they were coming. What exactly happened?
ARISTIDE: Should I say this story again and again? Because I think that I already answered that question.
COOPER: I still am not clear, though. And we have many viewers who have just joined us from around the world. And it is still unclear.
What did you say to them? Did you say, no, I do not want to go? No, I refuse to go? And did they force you into a vehicle? What happened?
ARISTIDE: I will try to answer your question to help people to understand it, but I do believe if you refer to the document you just read, when I told you they refused to translate the central part of it, where I said, "If I am obliged to leave in order to avoid bloodshed." You see, they doctored (ph) the document you have, and the version which you have, because they don't want people to know the kind of forces which were used to make that coup.
COOPER: Well, we can't make any sort of allegations. It is simply a translation of a document. The translation just could be incorrect. I don't really want to go down the road of saying that somebody has altered this document, because we don't know that.
ARISTIDE: OK. They gave you a false document, obviously. When you have a false document in hand, you should not use it, because it is a false document.
COOPER: But again, could you please try to explain what exactly went on? How was it that you were, in your words, kidnapped?
ARISTIDE: OK. When I said that Friday night American military, foreign -- Saturday night, February 28, American military, foreign military, Haitian, well armed, accompanied those foreign forces, surround (ph) the airport, to the palace, my residence. Most of them were in the streets.
And when I could see with my own eyes, it was when I was on my way to the airport and I saw them. The American plane who came straight -- we were in that American plane because Americans had the total control.
When we spent 20 hours in that plane, without knowing where we go, without having the right to contact our people -- and the first lady is an American lady, she didn't have the right even to look through the windows. They told her, "You don't have that right."
When we were (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the plane, we spent 20 hours on the plane. You can't imagine this kind of terrible situation. And that's why, again and again, I am telling the truth. I call it a coup d'etat in a modern way to have modern kidnapping.
COOPER: And Mr. Aristide, you join us from the Central African Republic, where you are staying in the capital in Bangui. Apparently South Africa has said that they would counteroffering you entry to that country as well. Obviously, the future at this point is very unknown.
We appreciate you joining us on CNN and CNN International. Thank you very much, Mr. Aristide.
And again, the statement from Colin Powell earlier today at odds with what Mr. Aristide has just said. Secretary of State Colin Powell said, "He was not kidnapped. We did not force him on to the airplane. He went on to the airplane willingly. And that is the truth." Certainly in the coming days we'll be hearing more and more about this as the details emerge.
Right now in Haiti, rebels are in the capital. Marines are trying to restore order.
Let's go live to CNN's Lucia Newman, who is witnessing both the chaos and some celebration in the streets of Port-au-Prince -- Lucia.
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