About Indymedia Israel

Also, NYC Indymedia should be assisted. I'm sorry to say, it seems that lefty ZIONISTS (as opposed to Jewish People on the left such as JATO) seem to be in charge of decision making at NYC IMC.

For example, one of our group members from http://www.awaremovement.org took pictures of Hillel people ripping down our flyers for a Walkathon to aid the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund http://www.pcrf.net/first.html
and HE posted these photos to NYC IMC, which promptly hid them. I ask why?

You can view the hidden post here:
http://www.nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=82895&group=webcast

Our photographer placed himself at risk to take the pictures. The least NYC IMC could do would have been to left them up, along with pics we posted of the Kahane guys at the Israel Inspires rally.

The photographs illustrate the sort of subterfuge by right-wing supporters of Israel that needs to be brought to public attention. In other words, the Hillel folk at Rutgers were so enraged by our mission to help bring medical care to Palestinian Children, that they had to rip our flyers down. The ones we spent a lot of time, money and heart, making and putting up.

I really think at some point all who are interested in Peace and Justice for Palestine should empower ourselves and ask NYC IMC, perhaps along with NYC Pro-Palestine groups such as PAFNY, JATO and others for an official policy statement from NYC IMC regarding posts related to Israel/Palestine.

It is my opinion that no one should mistake NYC IMC as being pro-Palestinian just as sure as no
one would mistake Hillel as being pro-peace/pro-palestinian on account of their having, on occassion, Moslem/Arab/Palestinian speakers. You're either 100% comitted to peace and justice or your not.

In any case, the fund raising walkathon for PCRF, last Sept was successful: we sent a check for $2,500.00 We hope next year to surpass this amount.

After all, any ethnocentric, racist ideologies such as Zionism, Nazism, and White Supremacy (whether Jewish or Christian) is hateful and is the root of war. That is not what Indymedia is all about.

I'm not surprised you fellows get upset about the fact that in an environment in which freedom of expression is not curbed (like Indymedia Israel), voices from your rivals get a fair hearing and triumph more often than not .

First of all, there doesn not appear to be undue censorship going on at the Israel IMC site. If you bother taking a look, you will see the same sort of anti "Zionist" stuff that you see right here.

Same in amount? No, probably not if you wish to consider ALL posting since only about 1/2 is in English. I imagine that the postings in Hebrew are less anti-"Zionist" but since I can't read them I can't comment on their content.

But the charges that IMC Israel and (IMC NYC) are controlled by the "Zionists". Come on now, who the hell do you think lives there? Who the hell do you think is available to staff the sites? Might I point out that IMC Palestine is effectively "dead" again (has been since August). That's not the fault of the "Zionists" but presumably the inability to keep a "station cooperative" active -- not enough people.

IMC is open publishing. This complaint SEEMS to be along the lines "we don't see the "Zionists" choosing to post anti-"Zionist" material. DUH! Why would you expect them too. Do you imagine that there are a lot of Israelis who take the position that YOU do, that Israel should not exist and that the "Zionists" should move somewhere else, like off the planet?

And "Trepper", might I suggest soemthing? A little less meglomania. The only "power" the rest of IMC has over IMC Israel is being able to cut links or if they are not on their own server, to force them to another host. You cannot "shut them down" not IMC NYC either. And if I didn't know any better I could almost imagine you were covertly trying to help them overcome their financial difficulties << because I asure you, if a "battle" broke out, get the "Zionists" out of IMC, then the "Zionist" sites would soon have plenty of sheckles --- "Zionists" who otherwise don't give a damn about IMC would make sure of that >>

Just what the world needs, another environment in which freedom of expression is not curbed (like the `Stürmer' and the `Völkischer Beobacher' )

It puts me in mind of a joke by Rabbi Dr. Marc D. Angel:

http://www.angelfire.com/ri/tucker/jokes/jokes61.html

A story is told of a Jewish man who was riding on the subway reading a Nazi newspaper. A friend of his, who happened to be riding in the same subway car, noticed this strange phenomenon. Very upset, he approached the newspaper reader: "Moshe, have you lost your mind? Why are you reading a Nazi newspaper?"

Moshe replied: "I used to read the Jewish newspaper, but what did I find? Jews being persecuted, Israel being attacked, Jews disappearing through assimilation and intermarriage, Jews living in poverty. So I switched to the Nazi newspaper. Now what do I find? Jews own all the banks, Jews control the media, Jews are all rich and powerful, Jews rule the world. The news is so much better!".

I'm not admitting. I'm bragging. No, we do not provide a soapbox for racists. The only reason we allow you to appear here here is as an example. Your foot is so deep in your mouth that we couldn't have discredited you better ourselves if we tried. You're a caricature, and a pathetic one at that. If you were, instead, articulate or charismatic, we wouldn't let you spout you rpoison here.

It's not a black and white issue. It's a mirror issue. Zionism is the mirror image of Nazism. It's aggressive, expansionist, enthic based, militaristic and self righteous.

I tried to look at the hidden link you posted but the pictures wouldn't load - they started to load, then dissapeared. What's up with that? I agree, it seemed bizarre to hide it.

Did you try taking the word Zionists out and see if they'd let it stay - that seems to be their issue with it.

You can view the hidden post here:
http://www.nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=82895&group=webcast

"It's [Zionism] aggressive, expansionist, enthic based, militaristic and self righteous."

Is this moron serious? So that's the essence of Nazism, huh? And using one's military for defense is not being "militaristic".

to seize land from you neighbors to the east is a move straight out of the Nazi play book. So is defining your country by ethnicity.

"to seize land from you neighbors to the east is a move straight out of the Nazi play book. So is defining your country by ethnicity"

That's a good one! How do you feel about Trans Jordan seizing the land to their WEST...also out of the nazi play book? When they locked the locals into camps, and people the land with jordanians, was that also defining their country by ethnicity? (As a result of the invasion and illegal occupation of the "west bank" Trans Jordan changed their name to "Jordan".

most people there,including new generations have live
,being born with this bloody war.
brainwashed,fool of hate.
superiority complex.
that`s what I see there.
IM Israel it`s just a mirror.
what a pity those young fellas already in such a condition.
OM

most people there,including new generations have live
,being born with this bloody war.
brainwashed,fool of hate.
superiority complex.
that`s what I see there.
IM Israel it`s just a mirror.
what a pity those young fellas already in such a condition.
OM

>How do you feel about Trans Jordan seizing the land to their WEST...also out of the nazi play book?


Indeed it is. But other people's crimes do not excuse your own. Is Hitler innocent of the Holocaust because Stalin killed six million Ukrainians?

How about settling this question with a test? We post "Treppers" article in Israel IMC and see whether they censor it. Obviously if they don't, the charge made by the article is essentially untrue. You agree?

GEE -- IT'S TOO LATE (already done). And it seems to have been left up there long enough to have gethered quite a few comments, some rather uncomplimentary to the author. Still there last time I checked. Apparently Israel IMC is LESS inclined to censor for "unacceptable political position" than some other sites we know well.

And here they would have good cause (gratutious lie) since it would be immediately obvious to anybody who visits Israel IMC that they allow ISM posts, allow pretty anti-semitic posts, etc. Contrary to "Trepper's" description Israel IMC is one of the more "open" sites. Now if the objection is that Israel IMC doesn't censor pro "Zionist" postings ...... or that the postings in the native language of the site are unduly pro the speakers of that language...... Well gee, how could it be otherwise. Have Israel IMC controlled by non-Israelis????

Still can't answer direct Yes/No questions without diversion and qualifiers...
OK then, let's try this...
What makes Israel's crimes more criminal then the crimes of others?
This is not a Yes/No question, but requires you to put on your thinking cap.
Try this one too. Trans jordan captured the west bank in 1948. They put the locals into "camps" and built illegal settlements. Was this an occupation? Was it illegal? Did the Trans Jordanian and Egyptian invasions further the cause of a Palestinian State? If you answer is no, please explain.
If it is yes, how so?

This is a straw man. I didn't say they were worse. I didn't say they were not worse. Comprisons are irrelevant. Your crimes are crimes no matter what other people did or did not do. Period. Other people's crimes are a separate issue. Talk about *your* crimes, why don't you?

"This is a straw man. I didn't say they were worse. I didn't say they were not worse. Comprisons are irrelevant. Your crimes are crimes no matter what other people did or did not do. Period. Other people's crimes are a separate issue. Talk about *your* crimes, why don't you?"

Still having problemns with direct questions...I assume your answer is "If I tell you the truth, you'd find out I'm a liar!!"

OK...try this one. Trans Jordan occupied the West Bank for 20 years. Was this good for the Palestinian people, and did it advance the cause of an independent Palestinian state?
(please note: this is not in reference to Israel, Zionists, Jews, Nazis, Communists, Zoarastrians, Dental Technicians or any group other than Trans Jordan relative to their annexation of the West Bank)

Where? I looked on there and I didn't see it. Even in the English version . . .

What I mean is, it would be better if whoever posted this could cite some examples, as Vince did for NYimc.

>Was this good for the Palestinian people, and did it advance the cause of an independent Palestinian state?

That's not the issue under discussion. We're talking about *your* crimes. You're trying to get us to talk about something else. It's not working.

"That's not the issue under discussion. We're talking about *your* crimes. You're trying to get us to talk about something else. It's not working."

Still having problems with direct questions. Here, try this one:
When Israel captured the West Bank and Gaza, from Jordan and Egypt respectively, did the occupation of the territories end, or did it begin?
If not, why not?

This is what's called in court "receiving stolen property."

At least now you're starting to talk about your own crimes. It only took a day of constant badgering. But hey, I don't blame you for not wanting to talk about Zionism's crimes. If I was a Zionist, I'd hide them too.

So now that you've confessed to a property crime, let's move on to the crimes against humanity. Let's hear you try to explain away the punishment of the innocent for having the wrong relatives. At least the unhousing of innocent families to punish their relatives for resisting your brutal imperialism isn’t something you learned from the Nazis. That’s a British tactic, honed in Ireland, and used throughout the empire. What else did they teach you?

TRANSLATION OF THE ABOVE:

Peace activists: It doesnt matter what people do to jews. If jews do wrong, that's the issue. There is no other issue. Israel is the issue. Only focus on Israel. No one else matters. Demonize Israel, ignore everything else.

ANYWAY:

Do you guys protest the fact that in saudia arabia it's illegal to be
jewish?

Or do you only protest the fact that israel gives special immigration rights
to jews?

Do you protest palestinian terrorism against israel?

Or do you only protest israel being mean to palestinians?

Do you protest the fact that the palestinian majority still doesn't even
recognize israel as a state that is permanent and not going to eventually
shut down, be dismantled or be destroyed?

Or, do you actually SUPPORT israel being dismantled or destroyed?

Are you ok with the fact that jews basically can't live in most arab
countries, but NOT ok with the fact that in israel, muslim israelis have
perfectly decent lives, even as a minority group?

Hmmmmmmm.

Well yes, of course "nessie" isn't your real name. Yawn.

Now this is something, nessie. For the first time in a long while you attack someone - me - ad hominem! One more indication you need professional help.
Sorry to tell you this, but you're (a) laughingstock(s) - you do allow people qualifying as racists by your standards to post here, thereby providing a "soapbox". Consequently, I take your contention that you allow me here as an example (for whatever) with a grain of salt. As you yourself conceded in the past, this site was set up especially for people like you who wanted a "soapbox". That's because you couldn't and can't stand it when other Americans resist your attempts to ram your fanatic opinions on anti-Zionism and other topics down their throat at any cost. Whatever my shortcomings on this board, I at least don't have my head in my ass as yours certainly is, and deep up at that.
Only folks who share your deep-of-the-end worldview share your conviction that I discredit myself and are pathetic. Fact is I am articulate and charismatic, I just don't want to let it show to the fullest extent on the board, and you ignore the rather articulate nature of some of my posts. As for the rest of your slanders, you're the pot calling the kettle black.

If you were strong and not a hypocrite and weasel you would've followed your conscience, refused to pay any more federal taxes and done time in prison over and over again so that you wouldn't have to support what you deem the mirror ideology of Nazism at all. You're lying concerning political ideologies. Islamism and Islamo-fascism - for which you agologize - are the mirror image of Nazism, as amply demonstrated by Hizballah, Hamas and dozens of other Islamist groups. They're the closest thing to Nazism these days. Conversely, Zionism is one of the most peaceful national movements in history.

"So now that you've confessed to a property crime, let's move on to the crimes against humanity."

There was NEVER any "palestinian" territory. Syria claimed it, Egypt claimed it and Trans Jordan claimed it.
Arabs rejected partition, which WOULD have created a "palestinian" state.
The territories were captured from Egypt and Trans Jordan after THEIR fifth aggressive war against Israel. Nowehere was there ever a plan for an independent palestinian state, until the end of the Six Day War.
So, Straw Man, you continue to pretend that history started when the combined forces of 14 Arab armies lost their war of genocide against Israel.

Please try to stay on topic.

Which WAS, if you remember, whether Israel IMC was acting in an inappropriate manner for an IMC. Grounds for which might be something like censoring anti "Zionist" postings.

The topic is NOT why do I hate "Zionists" and whether that hatred is justified. The topic is NOT whether the Israel IMC collective is composed of "Zionists" (it presumably is) and not whether these people have what to some of us are unacceptable attitudes toward the Palestinians BUT WHETHER THAT IS REFLECTED IN HOW ISRAEL IMC IS OPERATED.

The original article presented a "charge" that this was so. How about we stick to discussing the merits of the charge. Or should I say lack of merits. Of course we here are probably only able to judge in terms of the "foreign language" postings, those postings which are in English. Since English is NOT the native language there I would assume the "serious" local postings and comments are in Hebrew -- just like I would the serious discussion on Paris IMC to be in French, on Poland IMC in Polish, etc.

Again --- whether the Israelis are oppressing the Palestinians, what the rights and wrongs of the conflict there, these things are totally irrelevant to the issue supposedly before us. --- is the Israel IMC behaving improperly? (with regard to operating an IMC).

It doesn't matter who claimed it. It belongs to the people who live there.

>is the Israel IMC behaving improperly?

No, not as long as it publishes propaganda in favor of occupying Palestine and oppressing Palestinians.

1. There were also a few thousand Jews living there before they were driven out and murdered: first from Hebron in 1929 (a centuries-old community), then from all of the disputed territories (including the Gaza strip) during 1948.
By your logic the homes and property from which these Jews were kicked out of and deprived belongs to them.

2. The Israel IMC may not be behaving properly *by your standards*. Its staff makes their own policy there, and they appear to have much more common sense than you do toward the question of "Palestine".

From IMC Main Page:

Actcom, who provides the server became fearful and pleaded/demanded that we close the website. We are in the process of re-programming/improving the website design anyway, so we have shut the site for at least a couple of weeks and we are looking for a server outside of Israel so that we aren't as suseptible to being shut down.
[lbo-talk] Indymedia Israel investigated again, site shut down.
Bryan Atinsky lbo-talk [at] lbo-talk.org
Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:43:08 +0200

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The Israeli company who provided us with space on their server (Actcom) has
recieved very threatening phone calls to their homes and offices in regard
to a cartoon by Brazilian cartoonist Latuff showing Sharon and Hitler
kissing. Further, a police investigation has been started against us in
regard to this cartoon, accusing us of incitement.

The news about this has been all over the Israeli media. (Ma'ariv, Ynet,
etc.) They are accusing us of anti-semitism and incitment. One article even
goes so far as to say that the red color of the cartoon background signifies
blood and is therefore violent (red and black are also the color of the Nazi
flag, and for that matter red is the color of the red flag of the Left).
This is a ridiculous accusation.
(http://www.nfc.co.il/archive/001-D-35615-00.html)

The articles in the media accuse Indymedia of publishing the cartoon. It is
obvious that they have no understanding of what open-publishing is. The
article was published without our involvement whatsoever, by the cartoonist
himself in Brazil. We did not publish it and we did not put it as a
feature.

Whether one agrees with the cartoon or not -- if it is simplistic or
tactless -- is not the question. The Latuff cartoon should not have been
censored. It is not incitement, it is not anti-semitism, it is not racism,
etc.

Anyway, the cartoon was off the newswire and in the archive in a matter of
hours due to other articles being published onto the newswire and the only
way to get articles from the archive is to actively search for them.

Actcom, who provides the server became fearful and pleaded/demanded that we
close the website. We are in the process of re-programming/improving the
website design anyway, so we have shut the site for at least a couple of
weeks and we are looking for a server outside of Israel so that we aren't
as suseptible to being shut down.

I personally find this specific caricature somewhat juvenile. Further, I
believe that the left's heavy use of zionist/nazi equations in general is
politically ineffective. When Israelis (and for that matter most Jewish
people) see/hear the equation, they immediately reject/ignore the content of
the critique, regardless of its merit.

Instead, the use of the Apartheid analogy is much harder for Israelis to
reject and therefore a much more effective tactic. Other than that, to
plainly state something along the lines, "The Jews have be oppressed for
thousands of years, Inquisition, pogroms, the Holocaust...now how can the
Israelis be so blind and careless to their own occupation and oppression of
others...don't you have any ability to self reflect on your own suffering
and not do it to others?"

Edward Said used this to great effect: "Israel is neither South Africa, nor
Algeria, nor Vietnam. Whether we like it or not, the Jews are not ordinary
colonialists. Yes, they suffered the Holocaust, and yes, they are the
victims of anti-Semitism. But no, they cannot use those facts to continue,
or initiate, the dispossession of another people that bears no
responsibility for either of those prior facts.... So the choice is either
apartheid or it is justice and citizenship. We must recognise the realities
of the Holocaust not as a blank cheque for Israelis to abuse us, but as a
sign of our humanity, our ability to understand history, our requirement
that our suffering be mutually acknowledged....Why do we expect the world to
believe our sufferings as Arabs if (a) we cannot recognise the sufferings of
others, even of our oppressors, and (b) we cannot deal with facts that
trouble simplistic ideas of the sort propagated by bien-pensant
intellectuals, who refuse to see the relationship between the Holocaust and
Israel? Again, let me repeat that I cannot accept the idea that the
Holocaust excuses Zionism for what it has done to Palestinians: far from it.
I say exactly the opposite, that by recognising the Holocaust for the
genocidal madness that it was, we can then demand from Israelis and Jews the
right to link the Holocaust to Zionist injustices towards the Palestinians,
link and criticise the link for its hypocrisy and flawed moral
logic."(http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1998/383/op2.htm)

This is a much more effective critique than 'shut up you Zionazi!!',
etc...Israelis have a much harder time combatting critique from this
direction.

Bryan

---------------------
"Jerusalem police said on Sunday they are investigating who was behind a
rash of posters in the capital depicting Industry, Trade, and Labor Minister
Ehud Olmert stamping products from the territories with a nazi-era yellow
'Jude' Star of David, under the slogan 'Olmert caves in to the EU demands to
label Israel's Yesha products.'...Police are also investigating the
appearance of a caricature of PM Ariel Sharon kissing Adolph Hitler on the
left-wing Indymedia web-site." (picture of cartoon shown in link)
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid
=1070775779594&p=1008596981749

Dec. 7, 2003
Police investigate Olmert 'Jude' posters
By STUART WINER

Jerusalem police said on Sunday they are investigating who was behind a rash
of posters in the capital depicting Industry, Trade, and Labor Minister Ehud
Olmert stamping products from the territories with a nazi-era yellow 'Jude'
Star of David, under the slogan 'Olmert caves in to the EU demands to label
Israel's Yesha products.'

The posters appeared on Hanevi'im and Straus Streets in downtown Jerusalem
as well as other streets around the capital.

The cartoon featured in the poster was originally drawn by Israeli
cartoonist 'Oleg' on behalf of the Women in Green â?? a movement against
retreating from the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights - and appeared as
a paid-for advertisement in last Friday's edition of the Post.

The cartoon was produced in protest over Olmert's "capitulation to European
anti-Semites by metaphorically stamping Israeli goods with the yellow Star
of David." Co-chair of the Women in Green Nadia Matar told Israel Radio,
adding that anyone could have taken their pamphlet, enlarged it and hung it.

Matar denied any knowledge of the posters and suggested the picture was
taken from the Women in Green's web site where the cartoon, along with
previous drawings, also appear.

"Someone took it, and did good job," Matar said. "Perhaps we can get the
same people to put them up every week, because we can't afford to do it."

Matar defended the theme of the cartoons and said it is Olmert's actions
that are questionable.
"The first step is to label the products with a yellow star and next it will
be the people of Yesha. It is Olmert that is an outrage not the poster," she
said.

Should the perpetrators be caught Matar said she will not press charges for
breach of copy write.
"Why should I, they did us a favor," she said.

Yesha Council head Benzi Lieberman condemned that action and told Channel 2
news that if they discover who hung the poster, they would report them to
the police.

Police are also investigating the appearance of a caricature of PM Ariel
Sharon kissing Adolph Hitler on the left-wing Indymedia web-site.

Deputy Internal Security Minister Ya'acov Edri (Likud) strongly condemned
the posters and said he hopes the perpetrators are brought to justice.

"I see this as very serious, and I hope and believe the police will
apprehend and arrest those behind it and bring them to justice," Edri said.

"When you make an extreme connection like that it is incitement and that is
very dangerous," Edri continued. "It is making a clear connotation that
Olmert is putting a yellow star on the settlers."

Olmert has recently drawn strong criticism from settlers for acceding to a
European Union request to label products made in Israel with their city of
manufacture, thus identifying those products that come from beyond the Green
Line and in the territories.

"We have had enough of incitement in the past," Edri said referring to the
period leading up to the assassination of former Prime Minister Yizchak
Rabin during which posters and banners against the government's policies
were condemned by some for their inciting content.

Jerusalem Mayor Uri Lopliansky strongly condemned the posters and ordered
municipal worker to immediately remove them and city spokesman Gidi
Schmerling said the municipality will register a formal complaint with the
police against the perpetrators and press for charges if they are
apprehended.

Jerusalem Police spokesman Shmulik Ben-Ruby said police are investigating
whether or not the poster can be considered incitement.
"First we need to check if it is really incitement and if it is against the
law," Ben-Ruby said. "We are also looking into where the posters came from."

Council of Jewish Settlements in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip spokesman
Yehoshua Mor-Yossef also spoke out against the posters.

"Although we are very against what he is doing we are also against the
posters," Mor_Yossef said. "He [Olmert] might be a bit confused but there is
certainly no place to suggest he is anti-Semitic. That is out of bounds".

http://www.deepikaglobal.com/latestnews.asp?ncode=9959
Israeli police investigates Sharon's caricature

Jerusalem, Dec 8 (UNI) Israeli police is investigating the appearance of a
caricature of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon kissing Adolph Hitler on a website
and a rash of pictures of his deputy, Ehud Olmert, stamping products from
the territories with a Nazi-era yellow ''jude'' Star of David in Jerusalem.

The star bears a provocative slogan ''Olmert caves in to the EU demands to
label Israel's Yesha products.'' Sharon's picture appeared on the left-wing
Indymedia web-site while his deputy's on Hanevi'im and Straus Streets in
downtown Jerusalem as well as on other streets around the capital.

The right wing settler community is annoyed with Olmert for agreeing to
stamp products manufactured in the territories with the name of the place,
instead of Made in Israel stamp, complying to European demands which would
lead to levies on the products that Israeli products are exempted from
paying under special agreements.

I miss indymedia israel. It is a very lively forum, and many political/spiritual issues get discussed, due to the unique reality of that area of the world, and the fact that in the west, we feel our pyschic roots are there.

I found the latuff cartoon to lack substance and taste, and i find his cartoons in general to miss the point of the subtlty of editorial cartoons. I don't think he gets it..His symbolism is unneccesary..It isn't even symbolism, really..It is an attempt to shock..I agree with Bryan's remarks.

The schism i see coming is that zionism (christian zionism being really scary, with the likes of pat robertson, et al), and jewish zionism, are merging..Take a look at the christian televangelists and worldwide missionary work..It is happening. And i predict that there will be a new distinction..Jews and Zionists. And the Zionists have become morphed with the neocons. They are about nationalism. It has nothing to do with religious values. Not any longer anyway. I don't know if it ever did, since i am not knowledgeable on that subject.

As an american jew, i think the unthinking, knee jerk support of anything israel does, by many american jews, (including many who supported the invasion of iraq, more as a pro israeli statement), is a major historical and humanitarian mistake..I believe they learned nothing from history, and are setting up another possible holocaust..It is really obvious to me..

The real schism isn't between Germans and Nazism and Zionism, it's between the forms of Zionism.

Left wing Zionism is no better left wing Nazism. Zionism and Nazism are mirror images of each other.

This seems so primitive and anachronistic. Even with respect to the 'green line' boundaries. My intuition tells me that the right wing settlers are very dangerous..And I do not think they will leave without a fight.

Also, I want to add that I feel that many people in the world really had been wanting Israel to be a truly ethical state. And it seems there was alot of sincerity and hope in the kibbutz movement in the early years. The bottom line to all of this, as i see it, is to learn that no one is safe, if everyone isn't safe. There is no way to stop 'antisemitism', as long as we have any kind of ant-ism. And no single group can shut out others, and live as though they are in an isolated world any longer. We need to see our common humanity, rather than just our tribal identity. And i use the word tribal literally and also to symbolize all social or religious affiliations, including nationalism..

I think it is time for human beings to grow up and evolve into the realization that we do not have the right to be destructive. And the current Israeli gov't has confused being clever with being wise. And they are self destructing...I really feel that a truly morally courageous action must be taken by israel very soon, or it will probably be too late.

They need to let go of the persecution complex, because they can't seem to get past that. Even if they have the fourth largest arsenal of wmd in the world, they are still seeing themselves as the weaker victim. And this is just a bit delusional..And they are creating a self fulfilling prophecy...Because they are creating so much enmity..Which i personally find offensive, and frightening, because i am jewish...And israel claims to represent my best interests...The 'promised land' is not a piece of real estate...It is a feeling and an inner state of being...That is what i believe in the deepest ways..

While I understand your feeling about what the separation barrier - of which some 7% only consists of walls - seems like to you, I maintain a separation barrier, especially along the Green Line, will and already has yielded substantial security benefits in that it's already made it harder for would be suicide bombers and other Palestinian terrorists to infiltrate Israel, and has slowed down others, enabling Israeli police and military to apprehend some of them en route.
So it should be acknowledged the barrier saves innocent lives. In Judaism, as you might know, saving lives is certainly more important than esthetic considerations.