Anti-War Rally Misinformation about Jewish Groups' Role in McKinney's Defeat

Poor little Israel...a spoiled child above criticism.

http://www.adl.org/israel/letter_new_york_times25.asp

Left-wing magazine editor Rabbi Michael Lerner is urging Jewish support for Georgia Rep. Cynthia McKinney in her bid to retain her House seat, in a signal that some Jews on the left are preparing to take on Israel supporters who decry McKinney's sympathies for the Palestinian cause.

Perhaps the organized Jewish community's least favorite lawmaker during her 10 years on Capitol Hill, McKinney now faces a potentially tough fight in the August 20 Democratic primary. Challenging her in her DeKalb County district will be Denise Majette, a retired state judge with centrist domestic positions and pro-Israel views in line with the White House.

Federal election filings released this week showed that the fund raising outlook for this race is shaping up to resemble that of a June election in Alabama, where Jewish and Arab-American donors sparred over a Democratic primary. In that race between African-American candidates, Jews helped lawyer Artur Davis defeat five-term incumbent Earl Hilliard.

In the Georgia race, Arab Americans have stepped up their historically generous support of McKinney, while Majette is raising tens of thousands of dollars from Jews around the country, including a number of the same contributors who helped Davis.

Representing pockets of Jews who vocally defend Palestinian rights while supporting Israel, Lerner and other activists told the Forward that they were trying to counter Majette's support from the Jewish right.

Lerner, editor of the magazine Tikkun, said he backed McKinney's candidacy, calling McKinney's position on Israel a "reasonable critique." For lawmakers feeling pressured to bow to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, he said, the McKinney race would be a "bellwether for feeling safe to raise criticisms" of Israel.

AIPAC denies that it steers donors to candidates, although critics say the organization provides a valuable platform for those it supports.

Lerner discussed McKinney's race in an e-mail update sent this week to the roughly 20,000 affiliates of the newly formed Tikkun Community, a liberal group calling for increased support for the poor and a pro-Israel, anti-occupation Middle East policy.

"Pro-Sharon forces have targeted this African American Democrat for defeat for her strong stance in favor of both Israel and Palestine," Lerner wrote. The San Francisco rabbi, who stressed that his group did not endorse candidates, had recently returned from a trip to Washington. "I was told by almost every member of Congress to whom I spoke that people need to send money contributions to her re-election committee and to identify that they learned about this through the Tikkun community."

Similarly, "I don't think AIPAC singling out a candidate is good for the Jews," said Lois Swartz, the leader of Bubbes and Zaydes for Peace in the Middle East, a pro-Israel, anti-occupation group in Philadelphia. Swartz said her group intends to send individual donations to McKinney and also plans to urge like-minded members of Philadelphia's Muslim and black communities to do the same.

The Washington-based Jews for Peace in Palestine and Israel recently gave McKinney a top rating for her "even-handedness" in voting on pro-Israel resolutions. Officials with major Jewish organizations scoffed at the rating, pointing to a number of instances in which McKinney voted against aid for Israel.

Beloved by many on the left as a firm defender of minority rights, aid for Africa and pro-labor views, McKinney came to Congress 1992 with the help of local Jewish supporters, including Atlanta consultant Jules Stine.

But the relationship gradually grew more and more strained. In 1994, the House considered a resolution condemning the incendiary speech of the late Nation of Islam representative Khalid Muhammad. McKinney, arguing that the move would impinge on the freedom of speech, refused to support the measure. Two years later her father and then-campaign manager, Billy McKinney, called the congresswoman's Republican challenger "a racist Jew." McKinney eventually criticized her father after an uproar in the community and he excused himself from the campaign, but the damage had been done, observers said.

Last October, after New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani returned a $10 million gift to the city from Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal after the prince criticized Israel in published comments, McKinney issued a public letter supporting the prince, asking that he donate the money to black charities. In an April radio interview, McKinney called for an investigation into whether President Bush might have had prior knowledge of the September 11 attacks and looked to profit from them.

In May, along with Hilliard, McKinney was one of 5 members of the 36 voting members of the Congressional Black Caucus to vote against a pro-Israel resolution that put the bulk of the blame for the conflict on the Palestinians. McKinney said the measure would "undermine America's vital role as peacemaker.... While I support a safe and secure Israel, I also share the concerns of millions of Americans that Palestinians too deserve to live in freedom, dignity, and security."

"People ask me whether she's antisemitic ó it's more that she's pro-Palestinian," said Deborah Lauter, Southeast regional director at the Anti-Defamation League. "I don't think she's crossed the line."

Lauter pointed out that McKinney supported a July 9 House resolution condemning European antisemitism, a measure which passed in a unanimous vote.

"Most Jews would have a very difficult time supporting Cynthia McKinney," said Ira Forman, executive director of the National Jewish Democratic Council. "Jewish support for McKinney ó I bet they can hold their convention in a telephone booth."

Swartz will be there. "Cynthia McKinney supports Israel's right to exist ó as do I," Swartz said. "The ACLU gives her 100%, the women's groups give her 100%, she's with the unions, she's a good candidate."

Marc Schneier, president of the Foundation for Ethnic Understanding, a group that looks to improve black-Jewish relations, said he would withhold judgment on the race until he met with McKinney face to face, a meeting he said she requested after attending the foundation's August 2 black-Jewish congressional breakfast. "I want to give her a fair hearing," he said.

Longtime Atlanta McKinney-backer Stine, however, would not comment to the Forward, but his wife said she would not support McKinney in the upcoming primary. She would not say what her husband planned to do, but election records showed he had yet to contribute to her campaign despite consistent support in previous elections.

http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.07.19/news2.html

The recent defeat of Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney of the 4th District of Georgia by Judge Denise Majette has caused vast soul searching among Black Americans. We may quibble over the causes of McKinney’s defeat. Yes, there was a low Black voter turnout. Yes, White Republicans crossed over and voted against McKinney in the Democratic primary. Yes, certain prominent Black Americans withdrew their support for McKinney at a critical stage before the election.

While all of the above were contributing factors to McKinney’s defeat, the most significant cause was an outside force that mobilized strong support for her opposition. When asked to identify this force, Georgia state legislator and father of McKinney, Billy McKinney, stated to the media: "J-E-W-S."

Indeed, it was the Jewish lobby that not only orchestrated, headed, mobilized and funded Congresswoman McKinney’s defeat, these same organized Jews—particularly the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)—also defeated Alabama’s five-term Black incumbent, Representative Earl Hilliard, earlier this year.

In McKinney’s case, the Jewish lobby raised $1.1 million for Denise Majette—$500,000 more than McKinney had in her war chest. By stirring up anti-McKinney sentiment in the local and national media and on the Internet—depicting her as racist, pro-Arab and militant—the Jewish lobby frightened many White Republicans into voting in a Democratic primary that they would ordinarily have ignored. Further, by exercising their age-old pressure tactics against Black leaders—threatening economic and political reprisals—the Jewish lobby forced them to withdraw their decades-old support for McKinney. How else do we explain why NAACP chairman Julian Bond, Democrat John Lewis of Georgia’s neighboring 5th District, former Atlanta Mayor Maynard Jackson and Andrew Young, the former Atlanta Mayor and U.S. Ambassador to the UN, all maintained a conspicuous distance from McKinney during the critical period preceding the election?

Following the election, several prominent Jews applauded McKinney’s defeat. They claimed that she was too radical, too critical of Israel and too supportive of Arab causes.

While I share the outrage of many Black Americans over this, the latest successful move by prominent Jews to silence outspoken Black leaders and to set the Black agenda, I also sense that there is greater indignation now than ever before over this ongoing affront. So much so that for many Blacks, THIS IS INDEED THE LAST STRAW!!! Consequently, it is high time—no, long past time—that Black Americans everywhere re-evaluate the so-called Black/Jewish alliance.

Some of our leaders, writers and thinkers have already rushed forward to pursue the normal Black course of action during times of crises between Blacks and Jews. For example, the Rev. Jesse Jackson is talking about healing the current rift so as not to endanger this important liberal, democratic alliance. Furthermore, Professor Ron Walters has written a widely syndicated column that, in effect, minimizes the overarching impact of the Jewish lobby in McKinney’s and Hilliard’s defeats. Walters focuses on collateral issues that, without the influence of the Jewish lobby, would have been as inconsequential in this election as they have been in the past.

This tendency of prominent Blacks to placate Jews by ignoring their excesses or deflecting criticism from them is precisely why so many Jewish leaders and organizations have consistently criticized, defamed, degraded and defeated certain Black leaders with impunity—AND WILL DO SO AGAIN.

Jewish leaders have clearly decided that, no matter how widespread the outrage among Black people, if Black leaders—fearing Jewish reprisals—continue to cower before them, to rationalize their racism and to apologize for their flagrant disrespect for Blacks, Jews will suffer no consequences for their actions.

History teaches us that Jews are not the allies that so many Blacks think they have been. It is now widely known that Jews were as much involved in the African slave trade as Arabs and Christians. Prior to the Civil Rights Movement, Jews as a whole in the North and South were no more outspoken against racism, segregation and discrimination than White Christians. Even during the Civil Rights Movement (which benefited Jews far more than Black Americans), Dr. King’s "Letter From A Birmingham Jail" was directed as much toward Jewish rabbis as toward White ministers, because Jews were generally no more sympathetic to the Black cause than were White Christians in Alabama.

Over the past 30 years, Jewish racism against Black people has grown exponentially. Whenever a Black leader has spoken out against Israel, criticized Jews or otherwise failed to comply with certain Jewish demands or opinions, organized Jewry has mounted a relentless campaign to destroy him.

For decades, Israel was South Africa’s staunchest ally, while American Jews tacitly endorsed this alliance. Furthermore, in spite of the fact that Black people everywhere have consistently sympathized with Jewish calls for recompense for their suffering during the Holocaust, many Jewish leaders and organizations have fervently opposed affirmative action for Blacks and, incredibly, now prominent Jews, like David Horowitz, of the Center For The Study of Popular Culture, and journalist Richard Poe, are at the forefront of the attack against the Black American Movement in support of reparations.

Now, at the turn of the century, powerful Jews have also targeted Black Congressmen, in spite of the fact that nearly all of the members of the Congressional Black Caucus have consistently followed their White colleagues in voting in favor of U.S. military and economic support for Israel.

Although the Jewish lobby has succeeded in defeating McKinney and Hilliard, some Jewish leaders are not jubilant over these developments and are eager to meet with prominent Blacks to mend fences. These Jews realize that, at this juncture in their history—more than at any other time—Jews need Blacks more than Blacks need them. After all, some Jews understand that Black people are the traditional American scapegoats who have shielded Jews from bigotry. In light of this, Black Americans must now ask, what have we received from Jews in return? The answer is clear: Control of Black organizations, stereotypes in Hollywood, attacks against outspoken Black scholars, like Dr. Leonard Jeffries and Dr. Tony Martin, etc. Through it all, however, Black people have remained loyal and sympathetic to Jews.

But the rest of the world is another story.

In their quarterly journal "Response," the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center reports rising anti-Semitism in Eastern and Western Europe, the entire Middle East, Asia and Latin America. Furthermore, in the United States, growing numbers of White Christians are, on the Internet and elsewhere, questioning America’s blind loyalty to Israel that has insolated the U.S. and increased the threat of terrorism. And, like Black Americans, many Whites are deeply disturbed over the Jewish influence in Congress that has also resulted in the silencing and defeat of certain prominent White Congressmen.

In light of the crisis before us, Black leaders must close ranks and act on one accord. The defeat of McKinney and Hilliard is not the work of a disaffected ally, but of cold-blooded racists who are willing to block Black progress—no matter what the cost to Black Americans in a loss of power and influence—if it conflicts with the overall Jewish agenda.

It is high time, at this historical juncture, for Black Americans—the long-suffering, ever-obliging buffer between Whites and Jews—to step aside and let Jews fend for themselves so that White people will, at long last, stop focusing on Black people and get a good look at American Jews, whose McCarthyistic tactics and stranglehold on Congress threaten to make this country the United States of Israel.

(Harold Green is research director for CEMOTAP-WEST, a Los Angeles-based media watchdog organization.)



Copyright © 2003 FCN Publishing.

Jewish political activists scored impressive victories in two recent Congressional primaries. On June 25, relative political newcomer Artur Davis defeated five-term Alabama congressman Earl Hilliard in the Democratic primary by a whopping 56% to 44%. The 34-year-old thereby handed Hilliard the first defeat of his 28-year political career. Two months later, political newcomer Denise Majette upset five-term Georgia congresswoman Cynthia McKinney.

McKinney and Hilliard are considered two of the most anti-Israel members of the House of Representatives. They were among the 21 representatives who voted against a May congressional resolution endorsing Israel’s right to defend itself against terror. Last year, McKinney blasted then New York City mayor Rudy Guiliani for turning down a $10 million gift for the city from a Saudi prince, after the latter had implied that America’s support for Israel had led to the September 11 attacks.

Even as her re-election race tightened, McKinney refused to heed a call from her premier Jewish supporter, erstwhile Clinton spiritual guru Michael Lerner, that she issue an unequivocal condemnation of the Hebrew University bombing in which five American citizens were killed. After that refusal, efforts fizzled to raise money for an ad in the Atlanta Journal Constitution signed by left-wing Jewish supporters of McKinney.

Both races attracted national attention because of the heavy influx of out-of-state money, and because they pitted an outspoken black critic of Israel against the organized Jewish community. In the Alabama race, Davis raised $900,000 -- $300,000 more than Hilliard – most of it from out-of-state Jewish contributors. The victorious Majette raised only slightly more money that McKinney, but again much of it was from out-of-state Jewish contributors. Both Hilliard and McKinney received large contributions from Arab groups and individuals.

Anti-Semitism was an issue in both campaigns. One of Hilliard’s campaign ads showed the face of a white, cigar-smoking New Yorker transforming into that of Davis. An anti-Davis leaflet characterized him as a "very, very, very dangerous" for telling black people that "Jews are our best friends." Among those campaigning for McKinney were Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton Jr., the one-time organizer of boycotts of Jewish-owned businesses in Harlem. McKinney’s father and former campaign manager Billy McKinney as far back as 1994 described her Republican opponent as a "racist Jew." Billy McKinney had this explanation for his daughter’s defeat: "Jews have bought everybody. Jews, J-e-w-s." (Remarkably, the commentators on ABC’s This Week, which aired the quote from the interview with Billy McKinney, barely raised an eyebrow over the blatant anti-Semitism.)

The Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) members rallied to the side of fellow incumbents, and condemned the influx of "special interests" – read Jews – in the efforts to unseat their colleagues. After McKinney’s defeat, chairwoman of the Black Caucus, Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson (D.-Tex.) complained to the New York Times about "non-African Americans from around the country putting millions into a race to unseat one of our leaders for expressing her right to free speech." She did allow that Majette would be accepted by the CBC provided that she is "not skewed by the agenda of her supporters [i.e., the Jews]."

The complaints of CBC members reflect the continuing hold of identity politics, positing a single authentic black position on any issue, on the Caucus. CBC members who expressed their "concern" with Jewish involvement in the races conveniently ignored that neither Davis nor Majette, both of whom are black themselves, could have won if black voters had not preferred them. Davis won handily in an overwhelmingly black district; Majette ran even with McKinney in black precincts of her more racially mixed district.

True, Jewish money made it possible for two highly qualified and attractive black candidates to get out their message and defeat entrenched incumbents. (Because of their greater name recognition long-time incumbents are considered virtually invulnerable.) Yet Davis and Majette could not have won had their fellow blacks not preferred their message.

Nothing could be more patronizing to black voters than to suggest that Jewish money bought the elections. Both Hilliard and McKinney had provided their constituents with good cause of embarrassment. Hilliard was reprimanded by the notoriously lax House Ethics committee for improprieties in his handling of campaign contributions, and McKinney publicly charged President Bush with having known in advance of the September 11 attacks on the Twin Towers and Pentagon and of having profited financially from the attacks. By contrast, Davis and Majette both carry impressive resumes. Davis is a graduate of Harvard Law School and former U.S. Attorney. Majette graduated Yale College and Duke Law School, and served two terms as a state court judge.

NO MATTER how qualified Davis and Majette are, however, the fact remains that Jewish contributors flocked to them primarily to defeat their opponents. That kind of negative involvement invariably exacts a price from the Jewish community by playing into widespread black stereotypes of rich Jews controlling the lives of poor black folks.

There is, however, another form of Jewish political involvement on behalf of black candidates that entails no such cost. That is support for black candidates with a long record of friendship and support for Jews and Israel. New York State Comptroller Carl McCall, who is running in next week’s Democratic primary for governor, is a perfect example of such a politician.

McCall grew up in the then heavily Jewish Roxbury section of Boston, and was elected president of his high school student government at Roxbury High, where 90% of the student body was Jewish. Any New York politician with statewide ambitions can be expected to adopt a vociferously pro-Israel position. Just consider the transformation of former First Lady Hilary Clinton, who once kissed Suha Arafat immediately after the latter accused Israel of poisoning Palestinian wells, into Senator Clinton, an ardent supporter of Israel.

But McCall’s support for Israel and attachment to the Jewish people precedes any such ambitions. In 1972, as a 26-year-old columnist on the black-owned Amsterdam News, he called for the immediate cancellation of the 1972 Summer Olympics after the massacre of 11 Israeli athletes at Munich. Three years later, his was one of the most forceful voices in the black community against the 1975 U.N. Zionism-is-racism resolution. He joined together with Bayard Rustin, a member of the preceding generation of civil rights leaders for whom the Jewish-black alliance was a given, in condemning the "jackals at the U.N." (Daniel Patrick Moynihan was the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. at the time. When Moynihan retired from the U.S. Senate, McCall was his personal choice to succeed him in the Senate and as Honorary Chairman of the Aish HaTorah Fellowships program. At least the latter came to pass.)

As Deputy U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. in 1977, McCall defended Israel against the Third World and the Soviet blocs on the U.N. Human Rights Commission. Last year, when the President’s Conference of Major Jewish Organizations condemned the hijacking of the U.N. Conference on racism in Durban by sworn enemies of Israel, McCall was the only non-Jewish politician to join in the Conference’s statement.

McCall’s actions on behalf of Israel have gone far beyond lip service support and mouthing the pro-Israel pieties expected of all New York state politicians. He was the first New York State Comptroller to invest state funds in Israel Bonds. His threat to withdraw millions of dollars of state pension fund monies from any Swiss bank not cooperating with Holocaust restitution efforts proved a powerful incentive for Swiss compliance.

Most important, Mc Call has been no less pro-Israel when appearing before black audiences than when courting Jewish votes. A few years ago, he defended the creation of a separate public school district for Kiryas Joel on a black radio station.

Never did he go further in his forthright defense of Israel than on a March visit to the country. Despite personal State Department warnings that he should under no circumstances cross the Green Line, he did. In Beitar Ilit, he explained his decision: "In the United States we have a line too. It’s called the Mason-Dixon Line. And on one side of the Mason-Dixon Line, black people were considered legally inferior. When Dr. Martin Luther King called on the country to cross the Mason-Dixon Line to bring down segregation, the first whites who did so were Jewish. Now it’s pay back time."

It would be the height of presumption for someone living in Jerusalem to tell a Jew in New York how he should vote in a New York election, especially a gubernatorial election, in which local issues necessarily dominate. But one thing is clear: Carl McCall represents the type of black politician whom Jewish voters should eagerly support.



© Jewish Media Resources 1997-2003

Participants in this month's Congressional Black Caucus conference say the defeat of two black House members in bitter primaries not only suggests a widening rift with Jewish Democrats, but trouble within the Democratic Party itself.

"People were talking retaliation," said Ron Walters, the director of the African American Leadership Institute at the University of Maryland, of last week's CBC events in Washington. "They were saying [presidential hopeful] Sen. Joe Lieberman is dead in the water, and so on and so forth."

The anger is emanating from reports that several outside Jewish special interest groups took a particular interest in defeating Reps. Cynthia McKinney, D-Ga., and Earl Hilliard, D-Ala., by fueling the campaigns of their respective Democratic primary opponents with thousands of dollars and an interest in seeing the incumbents defeated for their long-standing support of Palestinians.

Both incumbents lost in stunning defeats.

McKinney blamed the Jewish lobby and the Democratic Party for her Aug. 20 primary loss by 16 percentage points to Judge Denise Majette, who is also black. The five-termer had sparked the ire of the Jewish community with her outreach to Arabs, particularly after the Sept. 11 attacks, and her support of Palestinians in light of terrorist bombings in Israel. She received ample financial support in her campaign from Arab groups.

Hilliard, too, is a fervent supporter of Palestinians, and lost in June 56-44 percent to opponent Artur Davis, who is also black and was supported heavily by Jewish special interest dollars.

Walters said their defeats were payback from the wealthy Jewish lobby.

"When you unseat two black candidates, it's not a freak thing, it's a strategy. It took black candidates by surprise, and it's made them very angry," he said. "Why the leadership of the party didn't do anything, that's the big mystery."

Political observers say McKinney was the only one to blame for her own defeat. She alienated the Democratic Jewish community after Sept. 11 when she slammed former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani for returning a $10 million check to a Saudi prince who had linked the attacks to America's Mideast policy. McKinney wrote the prince a letter criticizing Giuliani and asking for the money back to give to poor black communities.

Others say McKinney just didn't speak to black voters in her district anymore, while Republican voters who could vote in the primary crossed lines en masse to help defeat her.

"There is a wide variety of reasons as to why that defeat might have happened," said John Norton, spokesman for the Democratic National Committee. Norton said the party does not get involved in primaries, but in this case, "We would never pin it [defeat] on a group of outsiders who are wed to a particular issue."

Despite the building case against McKinney, political analysts agree that Jews, though traditionally loyal to the Democratic Party, have been moving further to the right since President Bush took office. The president's support of Israel, combined with his "compassionate conservatism," has done a lot to soften their attitudes against Republicans in the last year.

"Jews are clearly moving in a conservative direction, particularly at city and state levels," said Murray Friedman, head of the Center for Jewish History at Temple University and author of What Went Wrong: The Creation and Collapse of the Black-Jewish Alliance.

Jewish-black relations have been "waxing and waning" since the '60s, he said, and tensions uncovered in the Hilliard and McKinney races "are just a continuation of that."

Friedman said past anti-Semitic rhetoric against Jews by visible members of the black community like the Rev. Al Sharpton and the Rev. Jesse Jackson, and the fact there was no clear support for Israel by black members on recent resolutions in Congress, have exacerbated this growing rift between the two traditional allies.

"It's not helpful to have this rift out in the open -- this spells trouble for the Democratic Party," said Rich Galen, who is Jewish and a Republican strategist. He says if black voters follow through with plans to retaliate against the party for not doing more to save McKinney and Hilliard's seats, it could be disastrous. At the same time, he said, Democratic Jews may be wondering where the party was when black lawmakers were making statements against Israel.

"It all ends up spelling trouble for Democrats," he added.

Walters said the party has gone on double duty to quell the anger among blacks, who are by a vast majority Democrats. He doesn't buy that McKinney had lost support among the black voters in her district, but blames Republicans and Jewish outsiders, and a lack of support from the party.

"I just don't know why the Democratic leadership didn't step up and wrestle this to the ground," he complained.

A handful of CBC members have approached the leadership, not to blame them for their members' losses, but to request meetings, even a retreat, to help ease the growing tensions between the Jewish and black factions within the party, staff members said Tuesday.

Fred Turner, a spokesman for Rep. Alcee Hastings, D-Fla., said his boss "has been talking to his colleagues, both black and Jewish, to make things better. We have to remind people that there is quite a bit of shared history between the two groups."

Eric Smith, a spokesman for House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt, who met recently with CBC members on the matter, said there was definite agreement to clear up the tensions that exist. "He acknowledges that it would be good to continue the discussion."



Copyright 2003 FOX News Network, LLC. All rights reserved.

Another fact about Israel that is commonly hushed up in American media and by American politicians is that Israel is an apartheid Jewish state. In fact, Americans are routinely subjected to the lie that Israel is "the only democracy in the Middle East"--- but they never mention that the Jewish state of Israel is a democracy for Jews only, and that Israeli laws discriminate against all non-Jews.

Pro-Israel Zionists, both Jewish and Christian, always say that "everyone can vote in Israel" yet they fail to mention that no one is allowed to run for office in Israel if they plan to challenge the status quo that Israel is a Jewish state (and as such marginalizes and discriminates against non-Jews). In other words, if an Israeli wanted to run for office on the platform that Israel should be transformed into a truly secular, democratic state with completely equal rights for all of its citizens regardless of religion, race or sex, then that Israeli would NOT be allowed to run for office.

Few Americans are aware of the fact that 92% of the land in Israel is and has always been reserved for use by Jews only. Then remaining 8% is alloted for non-Jews which make up 20% of the Israeli population. This is segregation. This is apartheid. Few Americans are aware of the Jews-only bypass roads that go to Jews-only settlements on illegally confiscated Palestinian land.

Few Americans realize how Israel was created in 1948 when the White European countries that made up the UN at the time, unilaterally gave away Arab land that was not theirs to give away to Eastern European Zionist Jews, who began their ethnic cleansing against the indigenous non-Jewish Palestinians on day one of Israel's creation. This brutal campaign continues to this day in the Palestinian Territories of the West Bank and Gaza, enabled by US taxpayers' dollars, thanks to the enormous influence of pro-Israel groups, mainly Jewish but also some Christian Zionists, political action commitees and lobbies. The goal of these pro-Israel groups is to create a "Greater Israel" for Jews.

This is ethnic cleansing, as well as genocide-in-slow-mo, as these pro-Israel groups aim to wipe out Palestinian culture as well.

Anti-Zionists and anti-Israel activists want to see the dismantling of Israel as a Jewish state, and in its place a truly secular democracy with completely equal rights for all regardless of religion, race or sex built into its laws. As it is now, Israel has no constitution and nothing that calls for equal rights for all regardless of religion or ethnicity, etc. in its laws.

The opinion of the American public is vitally important to the survival of Israel as a Jewish state, and that is why they lie to us constantly. "They" being the US media, US politicians and all the pro-Israel Zionist and Zionist sympathizers who want to maintain a Jewish state and even a "Greater Israel" for a larger Jewish state. News about Israel in the US media is basically just professional lying and propaganda. They aim to obfuscate the truth about apartheid Israel because they know for sure that most Americans absolutely would NOT want their tax dollars supporting an apartheid Jewish state that is against American ideals as expressed in our Constitution and Declaration of Independence. Americans would realize that it is our bought-out government's unconditional support for the Jewish state of Israel's racist aggression toward non-Jews that has turned the Arab world against the US as well as destroyed America's credibility in the UN including Europe and the rest of the world.

The entire UN has condemned Israel's Apartheid Wall in the Palestinian Territories that is twice as high as the Berlin Wall and will be seven times as long, EXCEPT for Israel (of course!), the United States and the Marshall Islands and Micronesia(islands which the US practically owns)! Four countries against the rest of the world. And this is a repeat ratio of votes of many such UN condemnations against the crimes against humanity that US-funded Israel has been committing for decades. Basically, this pits the US-Israel alliance against the rest of the world. Talk about an unholy alliance.

How hypocritical of the US to talk about creating democracy in Iraq and elsewhere when the US, when the US government is funding Israel's Apartheid Wall and it's brutal occupation of the Palestinian Territories!

Few Americans realize that Israel is a huge liability to the US in every single way: in terms of money (billions and billions of US tax dollars), credibility as an honest peacebroker and promoter of democracy, good will with the Arab countries and the rest of the world. Basically our American government is funding the terrorist actitivies of the Jewish state of Israel. It's high time to cut of the flow of our tax dollars to the terrorist state of Israel and its pro-Israel advocates here in the US!

Some say that Israel is the US's aircraft carrier in the Middle East. Well, it'd be alot cheaper in every way for Americans (financially & diplomatically)if we had actual aircraft carriers there instead of supporting the apartheid Jewish state of Israel. The Arab countries were never our enemies until pro-Israel supporters made Israel's agenda the primary agenda for US foreign policy. Arab countries have oil to sell, and it would be cheaper for the US to be able to buy it from them without paying out billions and billions of dollars every year to Israel as our "aircraft carrier". And think about it this way, maybe it's more accurate to say the US is Israel's mega-aircraft carrier by proxy, using the US to be its arch defender.

It is long past due to reverse our U.S. policy towards Israel, and take every step necessary to pressure Israel to transform from an expansionist apartheid Jewish state to a true secular democracy with equal rigthts for all regardless of religion, race, or sex. This is the only effective strategy to eliminate terrorism, both Israeli and Arab, as well as the American terrorism being hoisted on the Iraqis on Israel's behalf.

Say what? Anti-Semites? Who, us anti-Zionists? Us?

We have nothing against Jews as such. We just hate Zionism and Zionists. We think Israel does not have a right to exist. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. Heavens to Mergatroyd. Marx Forbid. We are humanists. Progressives. Peace lovers.

Anti-Semitism is the hatred of Jews. Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism and Israeli policies. The two have nothing to do with one another. Venus and Mars. Night and day. Trust us.

Sure, we think the only country on the earth that must be annihilated is Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

Sure, we think that the only children on earth whose being blown up is okay if it serves a good cause are Jewish children. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

Sure, we think that if Palestinians have legitimate grievances this entitles them to mass murder Jews. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

Naturally, we think that the only people on earth who should never be allowed to exercise the right of self-defense are the Jews. Jews should only resolve the aggression against them through capitulation, never through self-defense. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

..


We only denounce racist apartheid in the one country in the Middle East that is not a racist apartheid country. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.


....
We refuse to acknowledge the Jews as a people, and think they are only a religion. We do not have an answer to how people who do not practice the Jewish religion can still be regarded as Jews. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We think that all peoples have the right to self-determination, except Jews, and including even the make-pretend "Palestinian people". But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.


We hate it when people blame the victims, except of course when people blame the Jews for the jihads and terrorist campaigns against them. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We think the only country in the Middle East that is a fascist anti-democratic one is the one that has free elections. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We demand that the only country in the Middle East with free speech, free press or free courts be destroyed. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We oppose military aggression, except when it is directed at Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.



We really understand suicide bombers who murder bus loads of Jewish children and we insist that their demands be met in full. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.



We do not think that Jews have any human rights that need to be respected, and especially not the right to ride a bus without being murdered. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

There are Jewish, leftist anti-Zionists and we consider this proof that anti-Zionists could not possibly be anti-Semitic; not even the ones who cheer when Jews are mass murdered. These are the only Jews we think need be acknowledged or respected. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.


We think the only conflict on earth that must be solved through dismembering one of the parties to that conflict is the one involving Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We do not think murder proves how righteous and just the cause of the murderer is, except when it comes to murderers of Jews. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We do not think the Jews are entitled to their own state and must submit to being a minority in a Rwanda-style “bi-national state”, although no other state on earth, including the 22 Arab countries, should be similarly expected to be deprived of its sovereignty. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.
..
We think that Israel’s having a Jewish majority and a star on its flag makes it a racist apartheid state. We do not think any other country having an ethnic-religious majority or having crosses or crescents or “Allah Akbar” on its flag is racist or needs dismemberment. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We condemn the “mistreatment” of women in the only country of the Middle East in which they are not mistreated. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.


We condemn the “mistreatment” of minorities in the only country in the Middle East in which minorities are not brutally suppressed and mass murdered. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We demand equal citizen rights, which is why the only country in the Middle East in need of extermination is the only one in which such rights exist. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We have no trouble with the fact that there is no freedom of religion in any Arab countries. But we are mad as hell at Israel for violating religious freedom, and never mind that we are never quite sure where or when it does so. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.



So how can you possibly say we are anti-Semites? We are simply anti-Zionists. We seek peace and justice, that’s all. And surely that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

Hey, Zionist-sympathizer... I think we've read your drivelly little "essay" one too many times. Talk about bull!

We are anti-Israel as a Jewish state that discriminates against non-Jews.

Got a problem with that?

Tough tofu!

"We're not gonna take it! NO! We're not gonna take it! We're not gonna take it anymore!" You can kiss American taxpayers' dollars GOODBYE!

What other countries can you name that give instant citizenship to people of one religion and fire missiles into the apartment buildings of the most densely populated place on earth next door, with something like a 50%+ unemployment rate, at the people who are the 'wrong' religion? What other country currently is using our tax dollars to kill men women and children? What other theocracy has violated and ignored more UN resolutions than any other nation?

Maybe there's a reason Israel is being examined, jerks. And whether that religion involved is Judaism, Christianity, Buddism, Unitarianism, or wtf ever, they are killing UN workers, reporters, etc. with our tax money and our government backing.

A place like Pakistan or China is also pulling a lot crap, but they are not breaking UN resolutions non-stop with US backing to each and every one of them. China is not shooting missilles into the apartment buildings of areas of India or Tibet that were GIVEN to them by the US. China does not have Nancy Pelosi screaming her head off if someone says 'the Chinese should push China to be more against the war and maybe the war would end.' China does not have the biggest lobby in DC at their beck and call. China does not bulldoze American college students, or shoot UN workers in broad daylight. China doesn't have a Holocaust they can bring up every time anyone says anything critical of the Chinese government. China is not pushing for the US to invade Japan or India to the point that they have our congress hogtied.

And on and on.

Places like China are bad in a lot of ways. But they aren't bad the way Israel is, pushing the current war agenda in the US as hard as they can, calling for the invasion of country after country over and over, against international law. Yes, China would love it if the US stepped in and took out their enemies, but they haven't got the US media and the US congress on their hands and knees convincing the public to get behind the US doing China's invading for them.

Wake up.

You mean like you? You provide no links or studies to support your claims. You could easily be another Zionist out to distort the truth. There's no reason anyone should believe you either.

Greetings to any Palestinian who may be reading this. My name is David White. I am a citizen of New Zealand, a small, Western, nominally Christian country in the South Pacific Ocean. I am not Jewish, or Christian, I guess I'm vaguely agnostic. Writing this letter is a good way for me to discuss the horrible mess in the Middle East, spell out as many relevant points as possible concerning the state of the Palestinian people and to see what can be made of them. I don't speak Arabic, so I can only communicate with English-speaking Palestinians.

There aren't many Palestinians here in New Zealand, though, and I haven't yet met any. I don't know how many will ever see these words, but, here's hoping someone does. I have a post-graduate university education and I suppose I could be called an intellectual. Unfortunately, many such people have supported abhorrent ideologies such as Nazism, and continue to support Communism, so I refuse to describe myself in this way. I don't want to considered as just another "trendy leftie" academic, as we would say in New Zealand. So, unlike many university-educated types, I am anti-totalitarian, pro-peace up to a point, pro-democracy, pro-capitalism (except the capitalists running Enron), and skeptical about the "cult of victim-hood." I'm quite safe here in New Zealand and no-one I know has been killed by a Palestinian.

My perspective of Palestinians is something like this - you're Arabs (of course), mostly Muslim, but with a Christian minority. Many of you live outside Gaza/West Bank, mostly in Jordan and other Muslim countries, with some groups living in Western countries as well. You feel that you have been wronged by Israel and are fighting to destroy them.

As for my perspective on Israel, I see them like this. They are a mainly Jewish, small, free-market democracy with a large Arab minority surrounded by hostile Arab dictatorships. They have an ancestral claim to Israel, their state was created as a refuge from persecution, they have a right to exist, and, having survived a holocaust in Europe, they should not have to sit still and wait for another one in the Middle East.

A DOWN UNDER OVERVIEW

Over the last few months, the conflict in the disputed territories of Gaza and the West Bank has turned into a war between the Palestinian people and Israel. (I will not apologize for using the term "disputed," as I believe it reflects a rather complicated situation more accurately than "occupied").

Your interpretation, as far as I can tell, seems to be something like this: You have no state of your own, and you are fighting a war against those you call "Zionist oppressors" and "colonial imperialists" in order to create a Palestinian state. Accusations of massacre and human rights violations by the Israeli Army are being tossed around like confetti. Your leader, Yasser Arafat, vows to "martyr" himself rather than "surrender," and that bungling and incompetent organization, the United Nations (again, no apologies for venting personal opinions), is trying to do what it is constitutionally incapable of doing, i.e. "saving future generations from the scourge of war."

The Israelis see things differently, of course. For them, it's a simple battle for survival. They offered you a state, and you attacked them instead. They have occupied Palestinian towns, have fought it out with various armed groups, and desperate attempts are being made by the US, other Arab countries and the UN to break the so-called "cycle of violence." As a result, the Palestinian situation at the moment, generally, can be explained by putting it into New Zealand idiom.

Put bluntly, the Palestinian people are buggered. Munted. Stuffed. Rooted. (American equivalent: screwed, British equivalent: done over). It's like this: Yasser Arafat turned down the Israeli offer of a Palestinian homeland in Gaza and the West Bank. You want, or Arafat claims that you want, a Palestine "from the river to the sea." in other words, "all or nothing."

There is one insuperable obstacle to this- Israel. No matter how eloquent your arguments or numerous your martyrs, no matter how many European diplomats are angered by, or UN resolutions are passed against, Israel, the Israelis are not going to pack up and leave. The only way you will get the Palestinian state you want is to destroy Israel.

This is what you have been trying to do since 1948, and the current "Intifada" launched in 2000 is your latest effort. However, the Israelis are not standing there and letting you kill them. They are fighting back, and if they have to choose between their own survival and yours, guess which choice they'll make.

That has been the overall response to the disaster you have created for yourselves. You, the Palestinian Arabs, are obviously hoping for some kind of international intervention to save you. As we in New Zealand would say, "Get Real!"

A GREAT WRINGING OF HANDS
A GREAT FLUTTERING OF DIPLOMATS

The European Union [EU] and the UN have demonstrated on numerous occasions in the past their incompetence and total incapacity to take any sort of firm action without American leadership. Ask your Muslim brothers of Bosnia-Herzegovina, about how effective the EU and the UN were in protecting them without American intervention. In spite of the impression that American diplomatic efforts have created, the US will not take sides against Israel, and will eventually abandon its futile attempts at evenhandedness. If they do join forces militarily with Israel in their war against terrorism, your fighters will be snuffed out like candle flames.


As for your "beloved Arab brothers" in the Middle East...

...they make a great deal of noise about your "liberation struggle", and have sent money and arms, but have not sent a single tank to save you. Their diplomatic proposals are ones that could have been offered at any time, and are aimed at benefiting them, not Palestinians. The Egyptians themselves will not declare war on Israel unless they receive $100 billion to cover their costs.

Do you really believe that the rest of your Arab Muslim brothers think you are worth that much? Do you really believe they will put your interests ahead of their own? Although your friends and Arabs in Europe are passing sanctions and burning synagogues in your support, not a single EU warship has sailed to your aid, and not a single NATO aircraft has dropped a single bomb on your "Zionist oppressors".

I have noted that large numbers of people, including university educated intellectuals support the Palestinian cause. Don't be misled by this. No matter how many western intellectuals, news media and international organizations may support the Palestinian struggle, none of this matters because America stands by Israel.

THE UNBEARABLE BURDEN OF LIFE

How did you get into such a mess? As you yourselves would say and have indeed said on many occasions, it isn't your fault. It's always the "Great Satan" America, and it's "Lesser Satan", Israel, that you blame for all your woes. Everything that you do, such as your "martyrdom operations," are described as the products of your "rage" at being "dispossessed of your land," and of your "helplessness" in the face of "Zionist" might.

There are only 300 million Arabs against over 5 million Jews! How unfair! How unjust, that so many can do so little against so few! A number of Western commentators have put Arab failures down to numerous cultural factors, not the least being Islam. Your religious beliefs in martyrdom and jihad, coupled with a total inability to accept any blame for your own predicament, have combined to do you great and lasting damage.

Look closely at why Western countries such as Israel have succeeded and Muslim countries have not. Western countries are free-market democracies. Muslim countries (other than Turkey) aren't. Surely that should tell you something!


As I said, I do not, and I will not, support the Palestinian cause. Why not? I have a number of reasons, and here they are:

1. You have made it clear beyond any shadow of doubt that you intend to destroy Israel and kill or drive out its Jewish population. This is genocide, pure and simple. You justify this by saying that Israel has committed many crimes against your people, and that you seek "justice." I say this in response- NOTHING WHATSOEVER is an acceptable justification for genocide. Loss of land, humiliation at being militarily defeated - others have suffered these and moved on to create new nations and opportunities for themselves.

Examples abound- the Germans thrown out of East Prussia in Europe, 1945, the Nationalist Chinese who fled to Taiwan in 1949, to name but two. Germans and Taiwanese have coped with military defeat and the loss of land. They haven't warred with their neighbors, nor have they launched terrorist attacks upon them. Both countries have more wealth than any Arab nation. Why can't Palestinians cope? Are Germans and Chinese better able to deal with adversity than Arabs?

2. You have accused the Israelis of "genocide" against you. Here's a question for you: Israel has atomic bombs and powerful military forces. If they really, truly wanted you all dead, they could easily do it. Why haven't they? If the Israelis went all-out, you would be, as we say in New Zealand, "dog tucker". Why did they spend so much time negotiating with your leaders? Because Israel wants peace and secure borders. You refuse to give them even those. You plan genocide and accuse Israel of the same crime. Prove it!

3. The use of terrorism. Killing people for being Jewish is despicable. Terrorist attacks on innocent civilians are also despicable. At this point, I'd like to pause and get a question of nomenclature cleared up, regarding those Palestinians who kill themselves and others with explosives strapped to their bodies. You call them "martyrs." Western media sources and academics debate the precise term to use in describing them. Others, including the Israelis, call them terrorists.

I have a better, more appropriate term. I prefer to use the word "kamikazes." The original kamikazes appeared in 1944, in the war in the Pacific. They were Japanese Navy and Army pilots, organized into "Special Attack Units" with orders to crash their planes into American warships, in the hope of destroying them - "one plane, one ship". Their initial impact was similar to that of the Al-Quaeda attacks on New York and the Pentagon- shock and horror. (I noted that many Palestinians appeared on Western TV celebrating the September attacks). Note: The American response, in both cases was not the one hoped for.

Once the shock had worn off, the US set out to destroy the kamikazes, and terrible destruction was rained down on Japan, ending only with 2 atomic bombs. You know what is happening right now in Afghanistan to the Al-Quaeda group.

4. Using children as suicide bombers. Anyone who teaches children to kill themselves in suicide attacks is not worth supporting under any circumstances. For you to do this to your children is an abomination. A commentator on a Web magazine said that if the Palestinians laid down their arms, they would get peace and land. If the Israelis laid down their arms, they would be killed. You know that is true, even if most of Europe doesn't. Your cause is evil, because it seeks destruction at any price. Genocide is not justice. Sacrificing your own children for the sake of your leader's personal ambitions is wicked.

That's why I cannot support you. That's why I stand with Israel.

PALESTINIAN PAST OR FUTURE?

The Second World War in Europe ended with Hitler's suicide. He was replaced by Admiral Doenitz who quickly made peace with the Allies. Japan's leader, Emperor Hirohito, decided on surrender rather than see his nation destroyed. If Arafat chooses surrender, though, will the rest of the Palestinians go along with it? If he dies, will the war end? If the answer to both of these questions is No, then the Palestinian people are doomed. Do you really prefer death as a people? Do you fully comprehend what you are doing? If you are indeed aware that the path you have embarked on leads to destruction, and if you have freely chosen to walk in that direction, then as a people you are truly beyond hope.


Are Palestinians really going to be a "Kamikaze Nation?"

Are you really going to give Israel no other option except your destruction? If they must choose, then as Israeli historian Martin Van Creveld said, "better a terrible end than terror without end." Do not think that kamikaze tactics can get you what you want. The Israelis can tell you all about Masada, if you ask them. Remember what happened to the Japanese at places like Okinawa and Iwo Jima. Palestinians deserve better than the current mess you are in now - but before you can be given anything, you must offer a sincere peace, you must stop teaching your children to hate, you must stop believing that "victim-hood" justifies everything and - above all other things - GIVE UP ISRAEL! Accept that you will never go there again except perhaps as workers or tourists. Accept that Jews are human beings. Accept the verdict of 1948 and learn to live with it.

Invest in banks, not bombs. Build computer chips, not Kalashnikovs. Teach science and mathematics, not hate. Look to the future, not the past. Stop blaming Americans and Jews for all your problems, and take responsibility for your own actions. Read those parts in the Quran about living with the "peoples of the Book."

Golda Meir, the former Israeli Prime minister, is quoted as saying, " There will be peace in the Middle East only when the Arabs love their children more than they hate Israel ." Every time I see pictures of Palestinian children waving guns and wearing dummy explosives, then I can only say she is right. The alternative to peace is not victory but death. Think about it- before it's too late.



David White
Auckland, New Zealand

Mr. Wordy White from New Zealand- he's a Zionist, whether agnostic or whatever. He has not bothered to read up on how Israel was immorally created by White European countries of the UN unilaterally giving away Arab land that was not theirs to give away in the first place to Eastern European Zionist Jewish Supremacists who began their ethnic cleansing terrorist campaign against the indigenous non-Jewish Palestinians even before the racist Jewish state was thus created in 1948. How convenient for Mr. White not to know that facts. Does he ever take the time to read up on these facts? There are plenty of books ( The Gun and the Olive Branch by David Hirst, for instance), plenty of websites, like http://www.cactus48.com and http://www.electronicintifada.net just to name a couple, to learn another point of view than his own, another point of view that happens to be the truth. Something he obviously goes out of his way to avoid.

As for Mr. so-and-so, with regards to McKinney, have you not taken the time to read the above articles? What part of "Jewish manipulation of the campaigns of McKinney and Hilliard" do you not understand? You can claim that the very popular McKinney and Hilliard (both elected 5 times)were suddenly unpopular out of the blue, however that does absolutely nothing to discredit the undeniable fact that Jews from around the country organized big-time to oust both of them because of their pro-justice for Palestinian veiwpoints. It happens to be a FACT.

She got elected each time BECAUSE she played the race card, and EACH time her margins got smaller and smaller. Predominatly black district, and the Repubs kept coming up with white candidates. What ya gonna do?

When the DNC dropped support of her and gave us a decent fucking ALTERNATIVE, you find it so damn hard to believe we wouldn't grab her with both hands? (So to speak?)

MCKinney wouldn't even TALK to her constiuency, unless they bribed her! The people who voted for her (and I was one, ONCE) time and again were DNA democrats - they'd vote for anyone as long as they were supposedly Dem. Repubs hadn't a chance - but they gave us an alternative to Queen Cynthia, you'd better believe we'd boot her ass out! And thanks to the DNC for giving us someone BETTER than McKinney!

Look - I know it's fun to play that there's fucking conspiracies everywhere you look. And maybe there are - but in this case, it was her constiuency getting sick and tired of someone who wouldn't return calls, wouldn't do anything but whore for face time on TV, who didn't do SHIT for her district!

We voted, we canned her unperforming ass. If that makes it a conspiracy, then the whole voting process is one giant conspiracy. As far as I'm concerned, she had NO right to office - no ELECTED official does! -- and there was NO guarantee that the people would continue to support her if she didn't deliver for them!

Now she's got some shill to whore for her, saying it was all a conspiracy by the Jooos! Ok, sure, yeah, whatever you say. But she ain't electable in Dekalb any more, we REMEMBER her shit, and no amount of after-the-fact historical revision crap is going to get her a second chance!

Methinks thou protestest too much!
AS IF we can believe you live in her district too! Ha ha ha. You just happened to discover the SF Indymedia in your trolling.

Sorry, we have enough experience with Zionists to know that in general they are professional liars.

Go ahead, try to deny the FACTS that the Jewish groups across the nation organized to oust McKinney and Hilliard because of their pro-justice for Palestinian viewpoints! I'm sure your children will believe you, if you have any. Nobody else will.

Windy Out Wendy: "Mr. Wordy White from New yammity yammity yammity what part of "Jewish manipulation of the campaigns of McKinney and Hilliard" do you not understand?"

Uh oh, Windy Out Wendy -- you forgot your fig leaf again! You're supposed to be pretending you're only anti-Zionist, and here you go talking about how the Jews are nefariously manipulating campaigns.

Windy Out Wendy: "Methinks"

There's damned little evidence of _that_, Windy Out Wendy, as both of your posts demonstrate. Here's someone who saw the campaign from up close, but because he doesn't HATE HATE HATE ARRRRGGGGHH! Spew! Steam! HATE the Zionists the way you do, you have no choice but to assume he's really just another Zionist, crawled out from under your bed.

@%<

It certainly appears as if the "lonely racist" is rapidly approaching the edge...

Windy Out Wendy: "yammity yammity metldown yammity yammity"

Don't get your hopes up on that one, Windy Out Wendy. I'll still be here long after you've goosestepped one to many Führer Foxtrots and suddenly join the spammer JA and the Holocaust denier Brian as ex-Indybayers.

@%<

Hey Mate,

you maybe agnostic, which is cool, but your analysis of the Mid East conflict reflects your current situation to give up Maori land, and respect Maori culture, hand, and history.

Just pouring some tea tree oil on your fallacy, ya Kiwi.


Rename New Zealand!!!!! There are more of us than you, Brits on Visas, and tourists.

David (tribe of?) White (supremacist?)

When the Maoris claim their right to ancestral lands where will you be repatriated to?

White...hmm..sounds English.

Motherland here he comes.

Regarding the above "Israel is an Apartheid State". It is well written and concise. I would like to post that to NJ Indymedia, and wish I had a writer/nickname to attribute it to.

a victim. Of anything but her own mouth, really.

"Methinks thou protestest too much!

AS IF we can believe you live in her district too! Ha ha ha. You just happened to discover the SF Indymedia in your trolling. "

Guess what, bozo - the Internet doesn't stop at the California borders. I live in GA, I've worked in the Dekalb county school district, I currently live in Norcross (Silicon Valley South), I surf around, I find sites that are interesting - and SF Indymedia's one I've been checking regularly for months. You guys are real good contrarian indicators - if you take a stand on something, I figure the opposite stand is likely to be the right way to go.

As with your support of McKinney. She lost in the Democratic primary to a black woman, even though she played every trick in the book. She even called the woman 'not black enough' - though her skin's arguably darker than McKinney's. Her core deserted her. Why?

"“Let me set the record straight. Not every African American in South DeKalb blindly follows Cynthia McKinney [, not] by a long shot. We gave Cynthia McKinney a chance to work for us. We gave her a chance to bring home the goods and services. We gave her a chance to improve the quality of our lives. The simple fact is that she hasn’t gotten it done [...] The 2000 National Opinion Poll, released by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, suggests that politicians like Cynthia McKinney may have a difficult task attracting African American voters by relying on subtle or even overt racial political rhetoric. In fact, many African-American voters find her approach to wooing their votes downright offensive because it suggests that African-Americans are unable to decipher political issues based on merit.

The bottom line is Cynthia McKinney has been in Congress for ten years and what do African Americans on the south side see? Businesses are leaving, roads are in terrible condition, our schools have not improved, crime continues to plague our neighborhoods and we can’t get our Congresswoman on the phone or get her to show up [...] We took a chance on Cynthia, but she spends her energy on issues that don’t affect us here at home. The only evidence we have of her representation is a road sign on Memorial Drive with her name on it. It’s time for a change. And it’s coming."

http://www.photodude.com/weblog/2002/august/15_mckinneys_base_talks_back.shtml

http://www.photodude.com/weblog/2002/august/15_mckinney_charges_racism.shtml

Hell, even the local alternative paper endorsed McKinney's opponent.

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2002-08-07/cover4.html

"The problem with McKinney is that her comments always come in reaction to an event. And she does it so often and so brashly that it amounts to grandstanding. The effect is that it has burned her political capital, so that now when she speaks, her voice doesn't have the resonance of someone who is respected -- John Lewis, for example. Oftentimes, what she says actually seems to rally people to her target -- the prime case being Bush.

The district deserves someone who can effectively advocate solutions. One measure of a member of Congress is whether she's done right by the people of her district. After 10 years in the House, McKinney has, at best, a mixed report card. She says she's brought $350 million in federal grants to her district, but that contention largely depends on who's doing the counting.

How do you count the grants that didn't arrive in DeKalb because McKinney lacked the clout or competence to secure the money? Take a $1 million education grant available to the district that would have helped track DeKalb students as they made their way to school on county buses. DeKalb schools tried to interest McKinney, but she didn't respond. So education officials had to appeal to senators Max Cleland and Zell Miller.

Where is the outspoken McKinney when it comes to defending her record? She has yet to face her opponent in a debate. Local media have had a hard time corralling her for a simple sit-down. Maybe she's doing the smart thing politically; an appearance elevates the challenger to the incumbent's level. Such calculation is contemptuous of democracy, however.

In lieu of debate, McKinney deploys red herrings she's used in every other race: calling her challenger a Republican, suggesting Majette isn't black enough. Why not attack something of substance? There are plenty of targets.

....

Thus, people of the 4th have a true dilemma: Return McKinney with her abrasive style but solid record on environmental and economic issues, or send Majette, more personable but lacking the fire of conviction. The voters can either have more of the same or can gamble that Majette won't turn out to be another seat for sale. Unfortunately, they don't have the option of "none of the above."

We don't like Majette's pandering on some issues and her lack of knowledge on others. But, forced to pick, we believe she could grow -- something McKinney is determined not to do. If she wins and advocates positions that work against her district's interests, it won't be that hard for another candidate to unseat her in two years."

So. You wanna support her? Go right ahead. You're welcome to her.

August 25, 2002
Letter to the Editor
The New York Times


To the Editor:


Re "For Black Politicians, 2 Races Suggest a Rise of New Tactics" (news article, Aug. 22):

Considering the long history of financial and other support by American Jews for black candidates, it was disturbing to read Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson's criticism of contributions by Jews to the primary campaign of Denise Majette in Georgia.

After all, outside support was vital in furthering the civil rights movement, and Jews played an important role.

Since both candidates in this race were African-Americans, this was not a racial issue. It was a case where one candidate, Representative Cynthia A. McKinney, went out of her way to attack Israel, causing much pain to supporters of a beleaguered democracy. It is also clear that her constituents turned her out of office for many reasons, including her extreme comments about Sept. 11.
Sincerely,

Abraham H. Foxman
National Director
Anti-Defamation League


http://www.adl.org/israel/letter_new_york_times25.asp
=================================

Duh! It's completely obvious to all of us who aren't brain-dead that most Jewish activists only went to bat for Blacks to get votes and makes alliances that SERVED the Jewish agenda-- ie. the ZIONIST Jewish state of Israel, in most cases. My hats off to the TRULY progressive anti-Zionist Jews and I know some of them and totally respect them. But for the most part, most Jewish Americans are still clinging to the racist idea of a Jewish state that discriminates against non-Jews. When Americans realize this fact, what can I say? The days of the Jewish state being sponsored by American tax dollars are numbered.

Any American Blacks who know the truth about racist, anti-democratic apartheid Israel would NEVER EVER want any of their tax dollars to support the Jewish state. NO WAY!

Same goes for many anti-Zionist non-Jews and anti-Zionist Jews of course!

Fuck racism! Fuck the Jewish state of Israel that persecutes non-Jews!

You're so damn sunk into your anti-Jew crap you can't believe that McKinney did it to herself? Is that what passes for rational thought in SF?

You can't believe that someone would vote against her because she wasn't doing DICK for her constiuency? That people got FED UP with her crap?

Oh, no. It's gotta be ZZZIIIIOOONNNISTS! EEEEEEEEEEEVIL NNNNNNNNNNasty ZZZZZZZZZZZZZIIIIIIIIIIIOOOOOOOONIIIIISTS!

No. It's not. And it wasn't. It was people getting FED UP with McKinney's crap. It was the PEOPLE who voted her out. As we're gonna do with BUSH.

THAT'S WHY WE VOTE, YOU STUPID SHITS! TO GET RID OF THE LEECHES! AND MCKINNEY WAS A FUCKING LEECH!

You wanna support her? Go right ahead. You'll listen to her, and believe her, and NEVER fucking understand why she can't get elected again.

Windy Out Wendy, forgetting yet again to disguise her antisemitism as anti-Zionism: "the Jews did it for their own selfish agenda yammity yammity yammity most Jewish Americans are still clinging to the racist idea of yammity yammity yammity Fuck yammity Fuck yammity yammity...."

Poor Windy Out Wendy. Forgot your fig leaf _again_! Is there really still anyone left on this board who doesn't think she's nothing more than a horrid little Jew-hating whack?

@%<

...certain editors ...

============================
You can't believe that someone would vote against her because she wasn't doing DICK for her constiuency[sic]?
==============================

a) How to eliminate all belief:
http://www.nobeliefs.com


b) How to furnish evidence for an explanatory theory:

quote:
============================
"it was disturbing to read Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson's criticism of CONTRIBUTIONS BY JEWS TO THE PRIMARY CAMPAIGN OF DENISE MAJETTE..."

Abraham H. Foxman
National Director
Anti-Defamation League
tp://http://www.adl.org/israel/letter_new_york_times25.asp
============================

AB: "...certain editors ... "

Well, right. She's got the officially approved form of antisemitism, so it's all okay.

@%<

But Windy Wendy is an anti-Semite.
Your allowing her to keep posting on this board makes you a racist.

one of the editors: "Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. If you think that it is, you're a racist."

Oh, you've hit the rewind button, have you. Anti-Zionism isn't _always_ antisemitism, but neither is it an iron-clad preventative _against_ antisemitism.

AS YOU KNOW but pretend not to for political reasons.

Windy Out Wendy is obviously both anti-Zionist _and_ antisemitic, but you're in denial about the latter because you don't want to believe it.

You're cowering behind your stock bumper-sticker answer because you honestly believe that no post can be evil if it's anti-Zionist, no matter the thickness and obviousness of its antisemitism.

Windy Out Wendy is embarrassing you. And you are embarrassing yourselves by pretending she doesn't.

@%<

Zionist Jews are the Jews own worst enemies.

Look at how the nincompoops above try to"prove" that McKinney lost because after 5 terms, all of a sudden, she was unpopular.

They try to deny all the above articles that in fact confirm the fact that Jews from around the country all of a sudden got involved with the campaigns of McKinney and Hilliard-- because of the fact that they are outspoken defenders of justice for the Palestinians. This is not debatable. This is a FACT.

The way the Zionist Jews try to deny it just re-inforces that impression that Zionist Jews are indeed involved in conspiracies that they don't want non-Jews to know about-- like how they go way out of their manipulate the campaigns involving politicians who don't bow down to the Zionist agenda and pledge unconditional support for the JEWISH state of Israel, which discriminates against non-Jews in many blatant ways, even violent ways.

And look at how the ADL pays Zionist Jews to go around looking for people on the internet at websites such as Indymedia who believe that Zionism is racism, and these Zionists act like hound-dogs to smear anyone who is against Zionism. Furthermore, they spread their bold-faced lies, that, thank God, most of us with half a brain can see right through.

Face it. The days of Israel as a Jewish state being supported with US tax dollars are numbered. You're going to have to get with it (a true democracy with equal rights for all regardless of religion, race or sex including for all the Palestinian refugees) or go down your bloody racist path on your own.

"We're not going to take it! NO! We're not going to take it! We're not going to take it anymore!!!!"

Gehrig thinks he's doing Jews a favor.

If all Jews were as obnoxious as him I'd hate to imagine the scenario of the future.

>Anti-Zionism isn't _always_ antisemitism, but neither is it an iron-clad preventative _against_ antisemitism.


Neither is it intended to be. Anti-Zionism has one purpose and one purpose only, to put an end to the domination of Palestine by the crusader-colonialists.

Anti-Semitism is a separate issue. It's just as righteous, but it's no more connected than Zionism and Communism are connected because some anti-Nazis Communists. Your continual attempts to smear anti-Zionists as anti-Semites is merely a distraction. Stop trying to change the subject and address the issue. What gives one ethnic group the right to lord it over another? Be specific.

Windy Out Wendy: "Zionist Jews are the Jews own worst enemies yammity yammity yammity yammity"

Hahahah! _Wonderful!_ You couldn't make it any clearer that what you mean when you say "Zionist Jews" is really "Jews." Especially when you follow it up with what's nothing more than an excuse for believing antisemitic conspiracy theories.

You're really doing very badly here.

Windy Out Wendy: "yammity yammity look at how the ADL pays Zionist Jews to go around looking for people on the internet at websites such as Indymedia yammity yammity yammity "

Oh no, Windy Out Wendy, there are ADL-paid Zionist Jews in your washing machine! In your shampoo! In your gasoline!

Windy Out Wendy: "most of us with half a brain"

Gee, Windy Out Wendy, don't be so embarrassed about only having half a brain! I mean, _lots_ of antisemites only have half a brain.

@%<

presumably one of the editors, under another nym: "If all Jews were as obnoxious as him I'd hate to imagine the scenario of the future."

Ya hear that, you Jews? Don't get uppity! Normal Jews is okay, I reckon, it's just them uppity ones, they's the ones causing the trouble. So don't get uppity, or maybe Indybay will start finding ways to apologize for antisemitic violence the same way it now apologizes for antisemitic rhetoric, ya get my drift, you uppity Jew?

@%<

Normal Germans is okay, I reckon, it's just them uppity ones, they's the ones causing the trouble.

the tree they're riding the motorcycle into.

10 years McKinney was in office. 10 years she didn't do shit. 10 years the DNC supported her - then they wouldn't support her, but they supported her opponent, and that opponent won!

Damn, what a concept! When the DNC didn't support her, SHE LOST HER OFFICE! To ANOTHER DEMOCRAT!

THAT'S THE WAY THE FUCKING SYSTEM IS SUPPOSED TO WORK!

She didn't PERFORM, and she got voted out! WHAT A FUCKING CONCEPT! Did you all fucking flunk high school civics or something? Damn! She didn't win! After winning 4 times before, against a WHITE REPUBLICAN! Must be a fucking conspiracy!

Noooo - just VOTERS who got fed up with her sorry ass!

Gherig - good luck to you, man. This place IS an on-line Jackass festival. They see what they want to see, and no amount of linkage otherwise will persuade them.

Just take one look at http://www.newamericancentury.org to see how the Neo-cons have been working on the agenda to dominate the world with American resources on Israel's behalf for years. See how closely our current dumb-ass government is following along accordingly, partly thanks to idiot Christian Zionists.

Do you think it's any coincidence that both of "America's" wars on Iraq (on behalf of the Jewish state of Israel) both began on the eve of Purim, a Jewish holiday that celebrates a historical event in which Jews launched a successful pre-emptive war on it's enemies a couple thousand years ago or so? If you want more info on this just do a Google search on keywords like "US war on Iraq Purim".

Don't tell me that many Jews aren't aware of this. But how many non-Jews are aware of this telling FACT?

AS IF gehrig has a friend here. It's just abnormal gehrig pretending he has a friend-- gehrig's just doing double-time. By the way, notice how gehrig admitted he was abnormal and uppity?

And, as for his referral to links that deny that the Jewish groups had anything to do with McKinney's defeat by another black democrat woman in the democratic primaries--- obviously that's just a figment of his imagination... all the links posted above prove beyond a doubt that Jewish groups from across the nation organized and got heavily involved with trying to get both Hilliard and McKinney defeated specifically because they are both pro-justice for Palestinians and they didn't vow unconditional support for the Jewish state of Israel.

Trying to deny it just adds to the conspiracy theory that Jews are trying to dominate the US policies. Don't hide it! It's pretty darned obvious. It's so obvious that it can hardly be called a conspiracy! It's just true that organized Jewry demands the US politicians to pledge unconditional support for the Jewish state of Israel, or else they are branded as "anti-semitic" and are thus subject to being marginalized or forced to step down. This is a FACT.

This too will change. All things change. Embrace change! We anti-Zionists do! No more US support for the apartheid Jewish state of Israel >period< until it is transformed into a truly secular democracy with completely equal rights for all regardless of religion, race or sex, including for all the Palestinian refugees.

Windy Out Wendy: " Do you think it's any coincidence that both of "America's" wars on Iraq (on behalf of the Jewish state of Israel) both began on the eve of Purim yammity yammity yammity"

Wow, Windy Out Wendy, this gets better all the time. Nancy Reagan used to consult an astrologer to time social events; do you honestly believe that the Department of Defense is consulting a rabbi to time its wars? International wars are really only Jew plots coordinated to the Jewish calendar?

Windy Out Wendy, Nutbar: "Don't tell me that many Jews aren't aware of this."

Actually, I wasn't aware of it. Neither is anyone else outside the realm of antisemitic theorizing. Know why? Because it isn't true.

In other words, you're lying to support your Big Jew Conspiracy theory. You're hoping the editors are as ignorant as you are.

Check out the BBC chronology, and you'll see that the Desert Storm started on the 16th of January, 1991. In 1991 Purim fell on February 28th, six weeks later. By which time Kuwait was already liberated. Check http://www.hebcal.com to see for yourself.

On the other hand, Gulf War II began on March 20th, 2003. A couple of days after Purim. But "the eve of Purim" was, what do you know, March 17th. Not the 20th.

So much for your stupid-ass nutbar Jews-in-my-cornflakes conspiracy theory about Purim, Wendy Campbell. Guess you've been goose-stepping around the Jew-baiting sites _again!_

Windy Out Wendy: "But how many non-Jews are aware of this telling FACT?"

When it comes to the Jews, Windy Out Wendy, you wouldn't know a FACT from your elbow. Aren't you embarrassed to proclaim your ignorance so openly so consistently?

Here's another hint, by the way. Remember, you're supposed to be pretending that you don't hate Jews, only Zi-i-i-ionists. You don't do yourself any favors in this regard by bringing up the Book of Esther and saying "look what the Jews have always been like."

Have you got _any_ idea of what a nutbar you sound like?

@%<

presumably one of the editors: "Your continual attempts to smear anti-Zionists as anti-Semites is merely a distraction."

I'm sorry your reading comprehension is so bad.

I'm not smearing Windy Out Wendy because she's anti-Zionist. I'm smearing her because she's an antisemite. I have demonstrated that many, many times.

You'll recall that I didn't call Jack Ass an antisemite. You'll also recall that I didn't call Angie an antisemite. Reason: because they don't have the completely unenviable track record Windy Out Wendy has, and is adding to even today. If I really were doing what you hope against hope I'm doing -- crying wolf -- then you'll have to explain why I don't do it to every anti-Israel poster here. Sure, I thought JA was an reckless idiot -- which is why you ended up banning him -- and Angie isn't exactly setting off Geiger counters in the next county through the sheer power of her brainwaves, but the specific charge of antisemitism is one I don't make lightly. I have produced more than enough evidence to back up my claim that Wendy Campbell is a horrid little antisemite. She's dropped her mask half a dozen times in this thread alone. You just prefer not to acknowledge it, because you'd rather wrap yourself up in the self-exonerating fantasy that it's really just _my_ problem, not Indybay's problem. That way you can continue to wake up in the morning with the words, "What? Me Worry?" and go to bed at night saying "What a good boy am I."

@%<

Windy Out Wendy: "AS IF gehrig has a friend here. It's just abnormal gehrig pretending he has a friend"

Sorry, Windy Out Wendy, but it's still true: I'll outlast you and I won't have used a single sock puppet to do it. If it's not signed "gehrig" then I didn't post it. While you are so embarrassed by what you post that you come up with a new name every time hoping that people that Windy Wendy Campbell is posting Jew-hating neo-Nazi URLS and such.

@%<

How about THIS tasty, crunchy newsbit that has not made the light of day in most US mainstream corporate media, well, possibly on the back pages in a teensy little blurb... are you ready???

How about the FACT that the Neo-cons and Israel want to re-direct the Iraqi pipeline that goes to Syria currently and make it go instead to--- you guessed it! ISRAEL! Haifa, Israel to be exact.

Dare you do to a Google search on that too! You really MUST do your own research and check several sources to get the picture. As in the case of the Iraqi pipeline, simply go to Google and use the keywords "Iraqi pipeline to Haifa Israel" and you will find the truth about this on such papers as the Jewish Bulletin, which by the way, in the article, talks about how this must be kept rather hush-hush and perhaps tabled for a couple years because obviously it goes against what Bush was saying about why the US went to war on Iraq.

So the fact is that the US went to war on Iraq for Israel's sake since Iraq is Israel's enemy (and the neo-cons SAID Iraq should be the first target as per http://www.newamericancentury.org) and because of the OIL for Israel. Soooo how about this slogan? No War for Isr-OIL!

Windy Out Wendy: "yammity yammity yammity"

Yes, of _course_ you want to change the subject away from the Purim Jew Conspiracy you were shreiking about only an hour and a half ago. Of _course_ you do. Because you were so obviously wrong, and because you are so obviously driven by your hatred of the Jews that you didn't even bother to check the facts before you started spreading your anti-Jewish slander.

@%<

Here's just one: http://www.voicefromzion.org/artman/publish/cat_index_8.shtml

But do your own research as always also!

Just go to Google and use the keywords "US war on Iraq Purim" and you will find many links from a variety of sources.

Here's just one of many links about the fact that neo-cons & Israel are hoping to divert the Iraqi oil pipeline that goes to Syria and redirect to Haifa, Israel.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,940250,00.html

It is surprising that the Jewish Bulletin's article on this subject doesn't open anymore? Especially when they reported that it was being intenationally downplayed because it wouldn't look good, since the war was supposed to be about "WMD", "democracy"-- or if some would have you believe about OIL for the US. So that open negotiations /discussions about it would probably have to wait a couple years to make it happen.

True. It DOESN'T look good that the US war on Iraq was done at least in part for the neo-cons to get oil to their favorite country, Israel. What does the US get out of this? More taxes, no doubt! To pay for Israel's war!

Windy Out Wendy: "yammity yammity yammity Purim yammity yammity do your own research"

Here is Windy Out Wendy at full denial. She's responding to a post where I demonstrate that I _have_ done my own research, and posted the URLs that any idiot can use to confirm that I've got my facts right. And, lo, I've got my facts right and Wendy the Jew-hating Wretch has gotten her facts wrong.

But remember, Wendy the Jew-hating Wretch is a Jew-hating wretch. Which means that, rather than accept simple evidence before her eyes, she'll pull up whatever she can find that looks close enough to what she thinks she said to use an an excuse for having said it.

Remember, here's what Wendy the Jew-hating Wretch wrote earlier today: "both of "America's" wars on Iraq (on behalf of the Jewish state of Israel) both began on the eve of Purim"

As I demonstrated -- easily -- Windy Out Wendy got it wrong both times. There ended up being nothing to her Jew Purim Conspiracy but her own willingness to spread lies about non-existent Jewish conspiracies.

So she cites what turns out to be an evangelical prophetic Christian site _about_ Judaism -- because presumably she wouldn't trust a Jewish site, you know what those Jews are like. And this site she quotes says something considerably different than what Windy Out Wendy said. It said that the first Gulf War _ended_, not started, on Purim.

Now, is Windy Out Wendy _really_ enough of a conspiracy nutbar to say that the US Army knew in advance exactly how long the first Gulf War would take, and planned it so it would _end_ exactly on Purim?

And the answer is, of _course_ she is! After all, she's a Jew-hating wretch, and no conspiracy is too big to be unbelievable, as long as it's about The Jew. Sorry, the Zionist. No, hell, she's not even bothering with codewords much any more, so let's just say The Jew.

And is Windy Out Wendy really saying that the war started two days before America shot that first rocket into Baghdad? Well, the site she's quoting does. How many rockets did the US fire into Baghdad on Purim, 2003? None. How many rockets did the US fire into Baghdad the day _after_ Purim, 2003? None. How many rockets did the US fire into Baghdad the day _after_ the day after Purim, 2003? Plenty. Is Wendy's site wrong? Yes. I've got the BBC and the Hebrew calendar on my side; she's got an anonymous evangelist who's exactly the sort of Christian Zionist she can't usually spit enough venom at.

Sucks to be you, doesn't it, you Jew-hating wretch?

@%<

Windy Out Wendy: "Here's just one of yammity yammity yammity"

Here's another free clue, Windy Out Wendy: if you post something overtly antisemitic, as you have, and then you post something that _isn't_ overtly antisemitic, that doesn't magically transform the previous antisemitic post into something that isn't antisemitic.

@%<

Watch him MELT as we anti-Zionists keeping throwing the light of the truth on his lies and his slanders and his attempts to hide the obvious conspiracy (in the press and our government and even at anti-war rallies to hide the truth from Americans) that exists to try to keep the US-Israel "special relationship" from falling apart under inspection of the truly most important question at hand..."Is it good for Americans (of all religions, races, ethnicities, creeds) instead of just one teensy powerful segment (of a CERTAIN religion - ideology whose name we dare not say or ELSE you will be called names!) Oh, the heck with it! Instead of "Is it good for the Jews?" OK! So,call us anti-semites! What a stupid word, when Palestinians are truly semites, and we're pro-justice for Palestinians.

NO! The wars on Iraq are NOT good for Americans.

NO! Supporting Israel's racist, apartheid country is not good for Americans!

NO! Threatening war against all of Israel's self-induced enemies is NOT good for Americans or anyone else!

We want a DIVORCE from Israel! No more "special relationship" between Israel and the US!

We're not going to take it anymore!

Gehrig never lies; what he says about you is pretty accurate and many times he understates.

The real conspiracy exists only within the your head and your ilk's, you Windy Hurricane.
When the yardstick of "is it good for America/ns" is used, it's amply evident that the Us-Israel relationship serves America very well.

You slipped once more...you linked Judaism to Zionism, forgetting your good ol' Neturei Karta buddies in arms. Thank you so much for exposing your anti-Semitism yet again!

Yes, "anti-Semitism" IS a stupid word; it was coined in the 19th century by a STUPID Jew hating German. You're just as stupid as he was...

Now let me use some of your battle cries so as to breath sense into them:

1. NO! Supporting Jordan's, Saudi Arabia's, Egypt's racist, anti-democratic and semi-theocratic regimes is bad for Americans.
Supporting Israel country is good for Americans!

2. NO! Lying about America allegedly threatening war against all of Israel's sworn enemies is NOT good for Americans or anyone else, it only serves Windy Wendy!

Windy Wendy and her likes want a DIVORCE from Israel! No more "special relationship" between Israel and the US!
But they won't necessarily be happy with the consequences regarding the Palestinians!

Windy Out Wendy: "Watch him MELT as we anti-Zionists keeping yammity yammity yammity blech yammity blurp yammity spew yammity yammit just one teensy powerful segment (of a CERTAIN religion - ideology whose name we dare not say or ELSE you will be called names!) Oh, the heck with it! Instead of "Is it good for the Jews?" OK! So,call us anti-semites!"

I don't call you an antisemite because you're anti-Israel, you Jew-hating wretch. I call you an antisemite because you _are_ an antisemite. Your sorry record here at Indybay produces more evidence of that daily.

Think about it a minute, nutbar. If you were doing one quarter of the good you think you are, with your anti-Jew screeds and your ignored protests, then how come, in the words of one of the editors, many people think you're really only a Zionist sock puppet trying to _look_ like a Jew-hating wretch? Here's a hint: they think that because you come across as -- surprise! -- a Jew-hating wretch.

Did you notice that just a few days ago, one of your yammity-yammity-yammity screeds about why you should be proud to be called an antisemite was hidden by the very-anti-Zionist editors?

By the way, Windy Out Wendy -- as anti-bullshit points out, the word "antisemitism" wasn't coined by the Jews as a way to delegitimize Palestinians. It was created in the 1870s by a German guy named Wilhelm Marr as a way of delegitimizing the Jews. Turns out the guy was an idiot and came up with a bum word for it -- and naturally, you try to blame that error on The Jew, because you're a Jew-hating wretch.

But what I find more interesting is your assertion that the Palestinians are "truly" Semites. Are you finally willing to address your previous assertion that the same is not true of Ashkenazi Jews? Or will you continue to quiver in the corner, paralyzed with fear that _another_ of your standard-issue swastika-stamped antisemitic canards would be instantly exposed the moment you worked up the vertibrae to actually defend your "Japhethite" post?

@%<

One of the first things anti-Zionists learn about Zionists is that they are professional liars.

On top of that they prefer to use mudslinging, smears, slanders and ad hominem attacks rather than discuss the issue at hand: racist, anti-democratic, apartheid Israel. They try to lure people into debates about red herrings and lies to avoid honest debate.

Anti-Zionists are simply too smart to bother with Zionists and their games other than expose them for the racists that they are.

Windy Out Wendy, perhaps unconsciously admitting by her choice of nym that she tells lies, lies, and more lies: "Gehrig yammity yammity yammity professional liars."

Well, then, Windy Out Wendy, are you now going to step up to the plate for once and say that you _haven't_ made any claims about Askhenazi Jews as not being "real" Semites? For some reason, whenever I ask this question, you start dodging like the proverbial long-tailed cat at a rocking chair convention. Why is that, Windy Out Wendy?

Say it wasn't you, Windy Out Wendy, and I'll happily apologize. Instead you dodge madly. Why is that, Windy Out Wendy? Can you answer the question directly, or will you just prove my point again by dodging it?

Windy Out Wendy: "Anti-Zionists are simply too smart yammity yammity"

Laugh of the day. Yeah, you're so smart you think that "anti-bullshit" is "imaginary."

On the subject of "friends," I notice that your latest ignored "rally" was even _smaller_ than the one before it, Windy Out Wendy. What do the drop-outs know that you don't?

@%<

Wendy campbell said:

One of the first things anti-Zionists learn about Zionists is that they are professional liars.

EDUCATED RESPONSE: So anyone who supports a jewish homeland's existence (that's what a zionist is) is a professional liar? What an idiotic thing to say. Unless of course wendy campbell has some strange alternate definition of a zionist, of course. But, in the world of actual "zionists," a zionist is just a perfectly regular person who supports israel's existence as a jewish home-state.

Wendy campbell said: On top of that they prefer to use mudslinging, smears, slanders and ad hominem attacks rather than discuss the issue at hand: racist, anti-democratic, apartheid Israel.

EDUCATED RESPONSE: All of Israel's citizens regardless of skin color, race or religion have the right to vote, work, run for office, and be a part of the government. If you want anti-democracy you better look to some muslim countries a few inches over on teh map.

http://www.palestineremembered.com

Like for instance, does he know that the ethno-centric JEWISH state of Israel has two sets of laws and rights: one for Jews and one for non-Jews? Non-Jews are discriminated against in the Jewish state of Israel in a myriad of ways. And in fact, any Israeli who wants to transform Israel from a racist, anti-democratic, apartheid JEWISH state into a truly secular, democratic country with completely equal rights for all regardless of religion, race or sex, is NOT ALLOWED to run for office.

* Windy said: "And in fact, any Israeli who wants to transform Israel from a racist, anti-democratic, apartheid JEWISH state into a truly secular, democratic country with completely equal rights for all regardless of religion, race or sex, is NOT ALLOWED to run for office."

THE TRUTH: there's a party called 'Shinui' which won 15 seats in the Israeli parliament in the last elections, which advocates just that, except that they don't espouse your lie about Israel being an anti-democratic and Apartheid state.

Windy Wendy, you better start getting honest.

Windy Wendy Hurricane, smoking pot or somethin'?
I'm very real. Not only that - Gehrig has some other REAL friends on this board.

Man, does James ever "need a lesson"!! I wonder where he's getting this garbage from? The mind boggles and then some!

* Windy said: "And in fact, any Israeli who wants to transform Israel from a racist, anti-democratic, apartheid JEWISH state into a truly secular, democratic country with completely equal rights for all regardless of religion, race or sex, is NOT ALLOWED to run for office."

THE TRUTH: there's a party called 'Shinui' which won 15 seats in the Israeli parliament in the last elections, which advocates just that, except that they don't espouse your lie about Israel being an anti-democratic and Apartheid state.

Windy Wendy, you better start getting honest.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020610&s=nichols

McKinney Redux

by JOHN NICHOLS

[from the June 10, 2002 issue]

During the long months of post-September 11 presidential invincibility, no member of Congress climbed further out on the what-did-Bush-know-when limb than Representative Cynthia McKinney. "We know there were numerous warnings of the events to come on September 11," the Georgia Democrat said in March. "What did this Administration know and when did it know it, about the events of September 11? Who else knew, and why did they not warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered?"

The disclosure that President Bush was warned in August that Al Qaeda was seeking to hijack domestic aircraft did not confirm all McKinney's intimations--which extended to talk about how the Bush family might have profited from the attacks. Yet she was freed to stake a claim of vindication. "It now becomes clear why the Bush Administration has been vigorously opposing Congressional hearings. The Bush Administration has been engaged in a conspiracy of silence. If committed and patriotic people had not been pushing for disclosure, today's revelations would have been hidden by the White House."

McKinney's initial calls for an investigation of what Bush knew prompted a storm of criticism. "McKinney has made herself too easy a target for mockery," Atlanta Journal-Constitution editorial page editor Cynthia Tucker announced in April. "She no longer deserves serious analysis." After Bush aides condemned McKinney's "ludicrous, baseless views," National Review Online editor Jonah Goldberg diagnosed her as suffering from "paranoid, America-hating, crypto-Marxist conspiratorial delusions." Barely a month after the McKinney-bashing peaked, however, the Journal-Constitution headline read: "Bush warned by US intelligence before 9/11 of possible bin Laden plot to hijack planes," while Senate Intelligence Committee vice chairman Richard Shelby, an Alabama Republican, said, "I believe, and others believe, if [information on threats] had been acted on properly, we may have had a different situation on September 11."

There were no apologies to McKinney. Brushing aside complaints from Atlanta civil rights activists, Georgia Senator Zell Miller continued to characterize his fellow Democrat as "loony." McKinney's critics kept exploiting the opening she gave them with her unfounded rumination on the prospect that something other than ineptness might explain the Administration's failure to warn Americans about terrorist threats. But her willingness to go after the Administration when few Democrats dared earned her folk-hero status among dissenters from the Bush-can-do-no-wrong mantra: The popular democrats.com website now greets visitors with a We Believe Cynthia icon.

In Georgia, where McKinney faces a July primary challenge from a former judge who labels her "off-the-wall and unproductive," a recent Journal-Constitution headline read, "Revelations Give Boost to McKinney." Letters to the editor, even from former critics, hail her prescience. And Georgia Democratic Representative John Lewis, who once steered clear of McKinney's call for an investigation, says, "I hate to put it in this vein, but she may have the last laugh."

The words that Israel has a "racist, anti-democratic, apartheid regime" come from an Israeli refusenik soldier who was videotaped saying them in the documentary "Truth: Exposing Israeli Apartheid" available at http://www.exposingisraeliapartheid.com

He has firsthand experience. See for yourself when you order the documentary.

As usual the Zionists such as gehrig and his imaginary friends are LYING and obfuscating the TRITH about racist, anti-democratic, apartheid Israel.

Here is the truth about Israel's so-called "secular" party "Shinui" (from the URL above):

Shinui is a secular, centrist political party in Israel. The name Shinui means change in Hebrew. In the election of 2003 it gained 15 out of 120 Knesset seats, making it the third-largest party, after Likud and Labor. Its best known platform plank is a call for complete separation of religion and state. It demands civil marriage, the operation of public transportation, stores, theaters, etc. on Saturday (the Jewish Sabbath), removal of laws concerning selling and importing non-kosher food, drafting of Ultra-Orthodox Jews into the IDF, and a halt to payments to Ultra-Orthodox Yeshiva students.

Because of such demands, it is sometimes accused of being anti-religious or hating the religous, and so some, even secular people, refuse to vote for it, even if they mostly agree with the platform.

Economically, it supports a free market, privatization of state companies, and a lowering of taxes, especially taxes on the middle class.

As for the situation with the Palestinians, it supports the policy of occupation of Palestinian cities if necessary in response to terrorist attacks, and negociation with moderate Palestinians, but not with Arafat, concerning the final status and a Palestinian state, which would include removal of settlements and withdrawal from most of the West Bank and Gaza. It asserts that both the Right and Left mislead the public. The Right, by claiming that only force will solve the problem, and the Left, by claiming that the attacks will cease after a unilateral withdrawal from the territories.

It has refused to join any coalition which includes the Ultra-Orthodox parties (Shas and United Torah Judaism).

The party's leader is Tommy Lapid.

SO THERE YOU GO. THANK GOD FOR THE INTERNET SO WE CAN RESEARCH THE LIES THAT THE ZIONISTS COME UP WITH AND FIND OUT THE TRUTH!

In other words, the Shinui party is made up of "secular" Jews but they ARE JEWS (ethnicity-wise). They are just not "religious" Jews. "Secular" just mean they don't necessarily believe in God or religion, but that does NOT mean that they are not JEWISH. The Shinui party does NOT call for a "secular democracy" in the same way that America has a secular democracy, whereby we have equal rights for ALL built into our law and Constituition, regardless of religion, race, ethnicity or sex.

The Shinui party does NOT call for the transformation of Israel from a JEWISH state (whether based on the Jewish religion or Jewish ethnicity) to a secular (not associated with any religion or ethnicity supremacy), multicultural democracy with completely equal rights for ALL regardless of religion, race, ethnicity or sex.

THE TRUTH IS OUT ABOUT RACIST, ANTI-DEMOCRATIC, APARTHEID ISRAEL!!!!!

The way the Israeli Jews use the word "secular" is completely different than the way Americans use the word "secular".

Since Jews can be either "religious" or "secular" (meaning non-religious) Jews without losing their ethnicity as being Jewish, they will usually try to claim that Israel is a "secular" state yet at the same time there can be NO DOUBT that Israel is a "Jewish state" as they themselves claim.

This is just another example among myriads of the ways that Zionist Jews constantly try to confuse the unsuspecting American public, even some dopey American politicians, all in their relentless effort to maintain "the special relationship" between Israel and the US, whereby Israel gets the lionshare of US foreign aid, billions and billions of our tax dollars which is unconditional and with no strings attached, and whereby the US is often the ONLY country (along with perhaps Micronesia and the Marshall Islands which we practically own) in the UN to abstain from condemning such atrocities as Israel's current building of the Apartheid Wall, just for ONE example.

Please note how even OUR politicians, heavily influenced by the current reign of Neo-cons, often misuses the word "democracy" as in bringing "democracy" to Iraq, Iran, Syria, etc. when our government has no such concern about letting the Iraqis have self-sovereignty--- the neo-cons want to place "Quislings" (Iraqi traitors) in countries like Iraq to do the United States of Israel's bidding!

Windy Out Wendy: "See for yourself when you order the documentary."

Yes, folks, that's Windy Out Wendy hawking her own tape.

Are commercials allowed on Indybay? Yes, if they're Windy Out Wendy's commercials.

Be sure to read down to the part about how, under Windy Out Wendy's guidance, there are going to be nationwide demonstrations on the 16th of every month commemorating Rachel Corrie. Not only did that fail to materialize, but even Windy Out Wendy's own demonstrations have gotten smaller each month.

And note that the last link on her page is to a site you can't link to from Indybay because the Indybay editors have deemed it antisemitic.

@%<

Windy Out Wendy: "As usual the Zionists such as gehrig and his imaginary friends"

You're off to a rollicking start, Windy Out Wendy. But remember, just because _you_ come up with a different name every time, that doesn't mean that I have to do the same. If it's not signed "gehrig," it's not me, no matter what the Zionist agents in your broom closet whisper in the dark.

As far as Shinui -- which you sound like you've just heard of, which doesn't surprise me, given your absolute lack of knowledge of what you're demonizing -- get it straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.shinui.org.il/elections/eng/principles.html

Windy Out Wendy: "In other words, the Shinui party is made up of "secular" Jews but they ARE JEWS (ethnicity-wise) yammity yammity yammity YAMMITY YAMMITY YAMMITY YAMMITY"

Wow, what a nutbar. Imagine -- there's Jews in Israel! Who'd have thought?

Take a look at their principles, and see if you can find anything about the party being for Jews only. Hint: "Zionist" does _not_ mean "Jews only," except in the so-called brain of Windy Out Wendy.

By the way, Windy Out Wendy -- could you please tell me why, out of all the ethnicities in the world, it's only the Jews who have no right to self-determination?

Windy Out Wendy, convinced that she's on to something: "The way the Israeli Jews use the word "secular" is completely different than yammity yammity yammity yammity"

Horseshit. Your normally abysmal reading comprehension is really taking a dive here. Whenever you misunderstand a point, you're always certain that it's because of Zionist trickery. Have you adequately considered the alternative explanation -- that you're just thick?

@%<

Never, ever take ANYTHING Zionists like gehrig at face value. There is always a twist, a caveat, a disclaimer, a hidden meaning, something to confuse the average lazy-minded, befuddled person.

For instance, Israel is a self-proclaimed JEWISH state where ONLY JEWS have completely equal rights. NON-Jews are discriminated against in a MYRIAD of ways, including Muslims, Christians, Druze and all non-Jews.

Only JEWS, religious or "secular" (meaning non-religious Jews, but still ethnically Jewish) enjoy all the priviledges of their government which is a theocracy, NOT a democracy, because a TRUE modern, American-style democracy is completely equal rights for ALL regardless of religion, race, ethnicity or sex written into the laws. Israel does NOT even have a constitution.

Israel keeps a Jewish majority via ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Palestinian people (a process that began in 1948 and continues up to this moment in time) and by practically bribing Jews to come to Israel to settle in illegal Jewish-only settlements that are paid for with US tax dollars.

Israel hides the numbers of people who emigrate (leave) Israel-- because alot do. Who in their right mind WOULD want to live in IsraHell anyway? What a pathetic, racist "country"! Psychologically, it's an armpit. It's a snakepit.

Windy Out Wendy: "yammity yammity the average lazy-minded, befuddled person yammity yammity"

Don't be so modest, Windy Out Wendy! You're far beyond average in lazy-mindedness and befuddlement. You excel rather spectacularly at both.

Remind me, Windy Out Wendy -- how many Jews are there in the Saudi Parliament? The Iranian Parliament? The Syrian Parliament? The Lebanese Parliament? The Egyptian Parliament?

@%<

Barely a month after the McKinney-bashing peaked...the Journal-Constitution headline read: "Bush warned by US intelligence before 9/11 of possible bin Laden plot to hijack planes," [...]

There were no apologies to McKinney.

"All of us have voices in our heads, whispering insanities. Rep. Cynthia McKinney's problem is that she lets hers speak." Chris Suellentrop, Slate, Friday, April 19, 2002 Rep. Cynthia McKinney's call for an investigation into whether the Bush administration had advance notice of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and failed to act because of economic interests has triggered a national avalanche of scorn.[...] "We know there were numerous warnings of the events to come on Sept. 11," she was quoted as saying. "What did this administration know and when did it know it, about the events of Sept. 11?" She also said "people close to this administration are poised to make huge profits off America's new war."[...] In the radio interview, McKinney cited the Carlyle Group, an investment firm that contains many who are close to the Bush administration, including former president George Bush. She quoted a Los Angeles Times report that on a single day in 2001, the Carlyle Group had earned $237 million selling shares in United Defense Industries. McKinney argued that "if the American people deserve answers about what went wrong with Enron and why [and we do], then we deserve to know what went wrong on Sept. 11 and why. . . . Why then does the administration remain steadfast in its opposition to an investigation to the biggest terrorism attack upon our nation?" Aren't those good questions? Chicago Tribune, April 22, 2002 (registration required) Could It Have Been Stopped? -CBS, May 08, 2002 Agent: Moussaoui 'could fly ... into the WTC' -CNN, May 14, 2002 Senator: U.S. didn't connect 'dots' before 9/11 -CNN, May 15, 2002 Bush Was Told of Hijacking Dangers - Washington Post, May 16, 2002 What They Knew Before Sept. 11 - CBS, May 16, 2002 Democrats Say Bush Must Give Full Disclosure - NewYorkTimes, May 16, 2002 Prior hints of September 11-type attack - CNN, May 17, 2002 F.B.I. Knew for Years About Terror Pilot Training - NewYorkTimes, May 17, 2002 Bush knew of terrorist plot to hijack US planes - The Guardian, May 18, 2002 Bush is still running from 9/11 - Salon, May 18, 2002 Poll: Americans Want Probe Into Intelligence Failings - Newsweek(MSNBC), May 18, 2002 Cheney Rejects Broader Access to Terror Brief - NewYorkTimes, May 19, 2002 Unheeded Warnings - Newsweek(MSNBC), May 20, 2002 Five Questions Bush Must Answer - Business Week, May 20, 2002 Ashcroft drawn into row over September 11 -Guardian, May 21, 2002 Bush told in August of specific threat to US - Independent (UK) May 21, 2002 When W. Came In, Our Luck Ran Out - Newsday, May 21, 2002 WhiteHouse Admidts Latest Terror Warnings Deceptive - Globe&Mail, May 21, 2002 Coleen Rowley's Bombshell Memo -Time, May 21, 2002 There's a lot Cheney feels we don't need to know - PostGazette, May 22, 2002 Agent Rowley: FBI Rewrote Moussaoui Request - AP, May 24, 2001 President's Stance on 9/11 Inquiry Bucks Tradition - NYT, May 25, 2002 Moussaoui Memo Says FBI Stalled Probe After Attacks - LA Times, May 27, 2002 Ex-Agent Had Key Data - Stock scam charges have eerie link - Newsday, May 29, 2002 Heads-Up To Ashcroft Proves Threat Was Known Before 9/11- SFGate Chronicle, June 03, 2002 Sept. 11 Attack Quotes - Statements then and now - NYT/AP, June 08, 2002

To deflect criticism from Israel, Zionists like gehrig always like to point fingers at Arab countries(which by the way do NOT receive nearly as much of our tax dollars as Israel, except for maybe Egypt, but that is just "hush money" to keep them quiet about Israel's on-going ethnic cleansing campaign against the Palestinians and its aggressions against Syria and Lebanon. So that even MORE of our tax dollars flows from our pockets on behalf of the Jewish state).

Zionists like gehrig always seem to "forget" that Jews were treated far better in Arab countries than they were in Europe UP UNTIL 1948 when YOU GUESSED IT, Israel started its ethnic cleansing campaign against the indigenous non-Jewish Palestinian people to create a Zionist JEWISH (supremacist) state on stolen Arab land ("given" by White European countries to the Zionists who stole even more than they were "given".)

Like I said, you can NEVER take ANYTHING a Zionist says about Israel at face value. It's always at least partially lacking, if not completely lacking, in truth.

Windy Out Wendy: "yammity yammity yammity yammity"

Gee, Windy Out Wendy, you "forgot" to answer my question.

There are Israeli Arabs in the Knesset. Could you please tell me the total number of Jews in the leadership of Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the Palestinian Authority, combined? Hint: it's one of those very rare numbers that's actually smaller than your IQ.

@%<

Does this mean that if the US stoped donating money to israel and donated a little money to all lthe arab atates you would stop bugging israel and instead focus on the other states that are worse? This could be a good deal if you took the whole rest of the world with you.
However unfortunatly no one believes you. Actually the money issue is just an excuse for hating israel like just about everything else.

Ye'ah, sorry for shouting here, dear readers, but I just noticed the reference to my own wee self in a spiel by Mr. Gehrig.

Yes, the same Mr. Gehrig who declared he would have to be bored to read my posts. Guess he has "the sight" then, hey? Doesn't have to see/read them to know what I'm saying! What an amadan!

So he says, in part:

"And Angie isn't exactly setting off Geiger counters in the next county through the sheer power of her brain waves".

Hehehe!!! The likes of Mr. Gehrig making disparaging remarks about anyone else's "brain power" did, as you might expect, cause huge hilarity here. Mr. Gehrig's remarks usually does, being so righteously pompous as he is, prattling all the time about Wendy, and when he's not prattling about her, he's yelling at her.

For shame, sir! For bloody shame! Did you not know that there's God out there somewhere, and that you are most certainly not him? So why don't you quit the "look at me, I'm the only one on this board with brains" bit? Because if that's what you think, you'll forgive us if we snicker on our merry way.

It's a trait of certain people on this Board to continuously smear those who do not share their views. Be it calling us liars, or morons, or anti-semites, or lacking in brain power. When I arrived here first I thought Mr. Gehrig was above all that crap. WELL! Not any more!. He's just like all the rest of his cohorts, a bit more sophisticated, perhaps, but just like the rest of his cohorts, aren't you, Mr. Gehrig?

Sit on it, sir!!

Rep. Cynthia McKinney's call for an investigation into whether the Bush administration had advance notice of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and failed to act because of economic interests has triggered a national avalanche of scorn.[...]

"WE KNOW THERE WERE NUMEROUS WARNINGS of the events to come on Sept. 11," she was quoted as saying. "What did this administration know and when did it know it, about the events of Sept. 11?" She also said "PEOPLE CLOSE TO THIS ADMINISTRATION ARE POISED TO MAKE HUGE PROFITS off America's new war."[...]

In the radio interview, McKinney cited the Carlyle Group, an investment firm that contains many who are close to the Bush administration, including former president George Bush. She quoted a Los Angeles Times report that on a single day in 2001, the Carlyle Group had earned $237 million selling shares in United Defense Industries.

McKinney argued that "if the American people deserve answers about what went wrong with Enron and why [and we do], then we deserve to know what went wrong on Sept. 11 and why. . . . Why then does the administration remain steadfast in its opposition to an investigation to the biggest terrorism attack upon our nation?"

Aren't those good questions?
Chicago Tribune, April 22, 2002
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/oped/chi-0204220197apr22.story
========================


Aren't those good questions, gehrig?

>"What causes mildly annoying "intellectuals" and statesmen to become barking moonbats, infatuated with the first jerk-off theory or meme they see on the internet? Is it simply a function their having run out of ideas?"
http://mckinneysucks.blogspot.com/
fancy that a fan site!

of ALL sorts of events prior to 9/11. Attacks on water supplies, on communications centers - there was a whole LOT of noise pre 9/11 on a whole lot of possibilities.

So the question is - how do you react to that? Do you give each possibility equal investigation time? Equal manpower? Knowing full well that if you miss even ONE thing, that ONE could be a disaster? Or do you decide to concentrate on what looks most likely?

Let's look at the behavior of hijackers pre 9/11. They were always attention-getters - they were always, and I mean ALWAYS resolved on the ground. The idea that a hijacker would take the plane and fly it into a building was unprecedented.

If anyone had said pre 9/11 that an attack by Al Quaeda was imminent, and that they'd hijack planes - okay, what would a hijacker have done? Taken the plane hostage, the flight crew would have done what the hijacker said, and eventually it would have been over. Contrast that to the possibility of poisoning NYC's water supply.... where would YOU have put the resources, knowing what you knew - pre 9/11? -

Of course, since 9/11 the paradigm has changed. Hijackers were a nuisance before - now ANY hijacker has to be assumed to be murderously suicidal.

As far as McKinney goes? Take her with a grain of salt, man. She'll say or do anything to get attention.

Apparently, McKinney herself gave the ANSWER MC the misinformational intro to read on her behalf...

Just goes to show you, politicians will say anything to suit whatever particular audience they are speaking to.

Too bad.

McKinney became a national celebrity because of her guts to take the stand for justice for the Palestinians in the face of unrelenting Zionists' demand for American politicians to pledge total, unconditional allegiance to the Jewish state of Israel.

It's too bad she wasn't honest about the real main reason she was ousted as per the top few posts to this article spells out--- it was indeed the Zionist Jews, both democratic AND republican, who rallied to get her ousted. It was far easier to blame it on the Republicans, but far from the truth.

And the truth will set us free. The problem is the fact that Zionists, aka the Kosher Klan, truly as racist as the Ku Klux Klan, are being allowed to foist their Zionist agenda on uninformed Americans who have been constantly lied to for decades about the reality of racist, apartheid Israel, a rapacious rogue state that's on life-support with our American tax dollars.

At any rate, McKinney's better than the average politician...

Ashcroft Flying High - CBS, July 26, 2001
Willie Brown Got Low-Key Early Warning About Air Travel - San Francisco Gate Chronicle, September 12, 2001
Odigo says workers were warned of attack - WP Newsbytes, September 27, 2001
Could It Have Been Stopped? -CBS, May 08, 2002
Agent: Moussaoui 'could fly ... into the WTC' -CNN, May 14, 2002
Senator: U.S. didn't connect 'dots' before 9/11 -CNN, May 15, 2002
Bush Was Told of Hijacking Dangers - Washington Post, May 16, 2002
What They Knew Before Sept. 11 - CBS, May 16, 2002
Democrats Say Bush Must Give Full Disclosure - NewYorkTimes, May 16, 2002
Prior hints of September 11-type attack - CNN, May 17, 2002
F.B.I. Knew for Years About Terror Pilot Training - NewYorkTimes, May 17, 2002
Bush knew of terrorist plot to hijack US planes - The Guardian, May 18, 2002
Bush is still running from 9/11 - Salon, May 18, 2002
Poll: Americans Want Probe Into Intelligence Failings - Newsweek(MSNBC), May 18, 2002
Cheney Rejects Broader Access to Terror Brief - NewYorkTimes, May 19, 2002
Unheeded Warnings - Newsweek(MSNBC), May 20, 2002
Five Questions Bush Must Answer - Business Week, May 20, 2002
Ashcroft drawn into row over September 11 -Guardian, May 21, 2002
Bush told in August of specific threat to US - Independent (UK) May 21, 2002
When W. Came In, Our Luck Ran Out - Newsday, May 21, 2002
WhiteHouse Admidts Latest Terror Warnings Deceptive - Globe&Mail, May 21, 2002
Coleen Rowley's Bombshell Memo -Time, May 21, 2002
There's a lot Cheney feels we don't need to know - PostGazette, May 22, 2002
Agent Rowley: FBI Rewrote Moussaoui Request - AP, May 24, 2001
President's Stance on 9/11 Inquiry Bucks Tradition - NYT, May 25, 2002
Moussaoui Memo Says FBI Stalled Probe After Attacks - LA Times, May 27, 2002
Ex-Agent Had Key Data - Stock scam charges have eerie link - Newsday, May 29, 2002
Heads-Up To Ashcroft Proves Threat Was Known Before 9/11- SFGate Chronicle, June 03, 2002
Sept. 11 Attack Quotes - Statements then and now - NYT/AP, June 08, 2002

"In it, the agent "mentioned the <b>possibility</b> of Moussaoui being that type of person that could fly something into the World Trade Center," Mueller said."<br><Br>The problem is - how many possibilities should they act on? Should they have somehow imprisoned him pre 9/11? (And boy, wouldn't folks have screamed about that!) Maybe interrogated him until he spilled all the plans? Can you say "Violation of civil liberties?"<br><br>
Like I said - it takes missing ONE thing out of all the noise, and you end up with 9/11. Or 9/12. Or 9/15. Or...<br><br>Hindsight's great. Hindsight's ALWAYS 20-20. You can ALWAYS see where you fucked up, looking at past events.

Did you read Coleen Rowley's Bombshell Memo?

Do you know what time Jane Garvey (FAA) stood down the air force on the morning of 911, and for how long the stand-down order lasted?

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,174912,00.html

At 9:25, Garvey, in an historic and admirable step, and almost certainly after getting an okay from the White House, initiated a national ground stop, which forbids takeoffs and requires planes in the air to get down as soon as reasonable. The order, which has never been implemented since flying was invented in 1903, applied to virtually every single kind of machine that can takeoff — civilian, military, or law enforcement. The Herndon command center coordinated the phone call to all major FAA sites, the airline reps in the room contacted all airlines, and so-called NOTAMS —notices to airmen — were also sent out. The FAA had stopped the world.

----------------

Let's see. the first impact was at 8:46 AM, so in less than 40 minutes the head of the FAA decided to get ALL planes on the ground and sort out the mess. (I'd imagine the miltiary was quickly exempted from that grounding rule, btw.)

Right call, as far as I can tell.

But you don't even know, do you. That's the whole crux of it.

I saw John Judge speak and he interviewed at least one jet pilot who tried to respond and were told to turn around. That was out of somewhere around Syracuse (Central New York), from what I recall.

BILL NELSON: Perhaps we want to do this in our session, in executive session. But my question is an obvious one for not only this committee, but for the executive branch and the military establishment.

If we knew that there was a general threat on terrorist activity, which we did, and we suddenly have two trade towers in New York being obviously hit by terrorist activity, of commercial airliners taken off course from Boston to Los Angeles, then what happened to the response of the defense establishment once we saw the diversion of the aircraft headed west from Dulles turning around 180 degrees and, likewise, in the aircraft taking off from Newark and, in flight, turning 180 degrees?

That's the question. I leave it to you as to how you would like to answer it. But we would like an answer.
General Myers Confirmation Hearing, September 13, 2001

The Answer:

At 9:25, [Jane] Garvey, in an historic and admirable step, and almost certainly after getting an okay from the White House, initiated a national ground stop, which forbids takeoffs and requires planes in the air to get down as soon as reasonable. The order, which has never been implemented since flying was invented in 1903, applied to virtually every single kind of machine that can takeoff - civilian, military, or law enforcement.

The Herndon command center coordinated the phone call to all major FAA sites, the airline reps in the room contacted all airlines, and so-called NOTAMS —notices to airmen — were also sent out.

The FAA had stopped the world.

...at 10.31, the FAA allowed all military and law enforcement flights to resume. (and some flights that the FAA can't reveal that were already airborne).
Time, September 14, 2001

---

The second plane looked similar to a C- 130 transport plane, [Keith Wheelhouse] said. He believes it flew directly above the American Airlines jet, as if to prevent two planes from appearing on radar - while at the same time - guiding the jet toward the Pentagon.
Daily Press, September 14, 2001

Kelly Knowles, a First Colonial High School alumnus who now lives in an apartment a few miles from the Pentagon, said some sort of plane followed the doomed American Airlines jet toward the Pentagon, then veered away after the explosion.

At the same time, [Keith Wheelhouse] and his sister, Pam Young, who lives in Surry, were preparing to leave a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery, which is less than a mile from the Pentagon, when they watched the jet approach and slam into the Pentagon. Both of them, as well as at least one other person at the funeral, insist that there was another plane flying near the hijacked jet.
Daily Press, September 15, 2001

Off to the west, Sucherman saw another plane climb steeply and make a sharp turn. "I thought, 'Is this thing coming around to make a second attack? If there is another explosion, we're toast.'" - eWeek

As we watched the black plume gather strength, less than a minute after the explosion, we saw an odd sight that no one else has yet commented on. Directly in back of the plume, which would place it almost due west from our office, a four-engine propeller plane, which Ray later said resembled a C-130, started a steep decent towards the Pentagon. - Cloth Monkey

Within moments there was a very loud bang, which seemed to come from the direction of Henderson Hall. At least, all the heads turned towards Henderson. It is possible that this was a secondary explosion from the Pentagon or possibly an F-16 going supersonic.[...] The only large fixed wing aircraft to appear was a gray C-130, which appeared to be a Navy electronic warfare aircraft, he seemed to survey the area and depart in on a westerly heading. - Our Net Family

[Keith Wheelhouse] and at least two other witnesses to the Pentagon attack were troubled that Pentagon spokesmen had until now said they were unaware of a C-130 being in the area at the time. In the days immediately following the Sept. 11 hijackings, the Pentagon had no knowledge of the C-130's encounter, because........all reports were classified by the Air National Guard. [!]
Daily Press, October 17, 2001

quote:
=============
"...as if to prevent two planes from appearing on radar

- while at the same time -

guiding the jet

toward the Pentagon."
=============

quote:
=============
A personnel attorney at the Pentagon, Goldsmith was riding a shuttle bus to work on Tuesday, Sept. 11, when she learned of the attack on the World Trade Center. [...] "We saw a huge black cloud of smoke," she said, saying it smelled like CORDITE or gun smoke.
- Jewish Bulletin News
http://www.jewishsf.com/bk010921/usp14a.shtml
==============



quote:
=================
WASHINGTON, D.C. — The airliner crashed between two and three hundred feet from my office in the Pentagon, just around a corner from where I work.

I'm the deputy General Counsel, Washington Headquarters Services, OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE.

A slightly different calibration and I have no doubt I wouldn't be sending this to you. My colleagues felt the impact, which reminded them of an earthquake. People shouted in the corridor outside that a bomb had gone off upstairs on the main concourse in the building. No alarms sounded. I walked to my office, shut down my computer, and headed out.

Even before stepping outside I could smell the CORDITE.

THEN I KNEW EXPLOSIVES HAD BEEN SET OFF SOMEWHERE."
- McSweeney's
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2001/09/19perkal.html
===============================