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Indybay Feature
Riders not guilty
Oakland rogue cops "the Riders" are found not guilty on 7 charges, with the jury hung on the rest. More later.
Oakland rogue cops "the Riders" are found not guilty on 7 charges, with the jury hung on the rest. More later.
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That really sucks. I wonder how many other 'riders' there are or were on the department who behaved in a similar manner but just didn't get indicted because this one honest new officer didn't get assigned to work with them during his first week.
That really sucks. I wonder how many other 'riders' there are or were on the department who behaved in a similar manner but just didn't get indicted because this one honest new officer didn't get assigned to work with them during his first week.
3 Oakland cops acquitted in 'Riders' case
Not guilty on eight counts, with jury deadlocked on other 27
Jim Herron Zamora and Henry K. Lee, Chronicle Staff Writers Tuesday, September 30, 2003
After 55 days of deliberations capping the longest trial ever in Alameda County, an Oakland jury acquitted three Oakland police officers Tuesday of charges they assaulted and falsely arrested residents in the city's poorest neighborhoods.
But the seven-man, five-woman jury deadlocked on the remaining 27 charges, and Judge Leo Dorado declared a mistrial on those counts. District Attorney Tom Orloff said he had not decided whether to retry those charges. A hearing was set for Oct. 15.
One juror, interviewed outside the courthouse, said the evidence did not prove the accused officers were guilty.
""I thought they were set up," said the juror, who lives in Oakland but did not give her name for fear of reprisals. The juror said the rookie officer who had accused his fellow officers of wrongdoing was ""one of the biggest liars'' among the prosecution witnesses.
But an alternate juror who sat through trial testimony but did not participate in deliberations said she was outraged by the acquittals.
""They were guilty,'' she said of officers Clarence "Chuck" Mabanag, 37, Jude Siapno, 34, and Matthew Hornung, 31. ""I am completely stunned.''
All of the alleged victims were black. There were no African Americans on the 12-member panel that decided the officers' fate, although two of the alternate jurors were black.
The case was one of the broadest police corruption cases in Oakland history. The three officers, who patrolled West Oakland together on the graveyard shift in 2000, were accused of cutting corners and violating the civil rights of innocent suspects by illegally detaining them, planting drugs and then writing false reports to justify the unfounded arrests.
Siapno was acquitted of charges he kidnapped and assaulted Matthew Watson on June 13, 2000, and conspiring to falsely arrest Rodney Mack on July 3, 2000. All three then-officers were acquitted of conspiring to falsely arrest Jabaree Highsmith on June 21, 2000.
The criminal case, which began when rookie officer Keith Batt blew the whistle on the Riders, also forced prosecutors to dismiss charges against more than 100 people arrested by the accused cops. It also cost the city nearly $11 million to settle a civil lawsuit by 119 people who claimed they were falsely arrested or roughed up by the officers.
Opening arguments in the case were Sept. 12, 2002 and closing arguments ended in May. The judge sent the jury back to work after the panel twice claimed it could deliberate no more.
The group's alleged ringleader, Francisco ""Frank'' Vazquez, is thought to have fled the country after charges were filed against him and the others more than two years ago. All the officers were fired.
Prosecutor David Hollister portrayed the Riders as a band of rogue cops who abused their authority to make easy arrests in the dead of night, knowing that the complaints of accused drug dealers with prior criminal records were not likely to carry much weight.
""At its core it was a simple case,'' Hollister said. ""They lied. Again and again they lied.''
But defense attorneys tried to show that the accusers were lying for selfish reasons.
""These honorable officers were caught in a web of lies,'' said Michael Rains, attorney for Mabanag.
Chief Richard Word testified that while he had instructed officers to be aggressive in fighting drug crimes, the accused officers went too far.
In a statement Tuesday, Word said jurors ""performed a very difficult duty and came to their decision.'' He said he stands by his decision to terminate the officers because they ""failed to comply with departmental policy.''
Chronicle Staff Writers Meredith May and Matthew B. Stannard contributed to this report.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2003/09/30/riders30.DTL
Not guilty on eight counts, with jury deadlocked on other 27
Jim Herron Zamora and Henry K. Lee, Chronicle Staff Writers Tuesday, September 30, 2003
After 55 days of deliberations capping the longest trial ever in Alameda County, an Oakland jury acquitted three Oakland police officers Tuesday of charges they assaulted and falsely arrested residents in the city's poorest neighborhoods.
But the seven-man, five-woman jury deadlocked on the remaining 27 charges, and Judge Leo Dorado declared a mistrial on those counts. District Attorney Tom Orloff said he had not decided whether to retry those charges. A hearing was set for Oct. 15.
One juror, interviewed outside the courthouse, said the evidence did not prove the accused officers were guilty.
""I thought they were set up," said the juror, who lives in Oakland but did not give her name for fear of reprisals. The juror said the rookie officer who had accused his fellow officers of wrongdoing was ""one of the biggest liars'' among the prosecution witnesses.
But an alternate juror who sat through trial testimony but did not participate in deliberations said she was outraged by the acquittals.
""They were guilty,'' she said of officers Clarence "Chuck" Mabanag, 37, Jude Siapno, 34, and Matthew Hornung, 31. ""I am completely stunned.''
All of the alleged victims were black. There were no African Americans on the 12-member panel that decided the officers' fate, although two of the alternate jurors were black.
The case was one of the broadest police corruption cases in Oakland history. The three officers, who patrolled West Oakland together on the graveyard shift in 2000, were accused of cutting corners and violating the civil rights of innocent suspects by illegally detaining them, planting drugs and then writing false reports to justify the unfounded arrests.
Siapno was acquitted of charges he kidnapped and assaulted Matthew Watson on June 13, 2000, and conspiring to falsely arrest Rodney Mack on July 3, 2000. All three then-officers were acquitted of conspiring to falsely arrest Jabaree Highsmith on June 21, 2000.
The criminal case, which began when rookie officer Keith Batt blew the whistle on the Riders, also forced prosecutors to dismiss charges against more than 100 people arrested by the accused cops. It also cost the city nearly $11 million to settle a civil lawsuit by 119 people who claimed they were falsely arrested or roughed up by the officers.
Opening arguments in the case were Sept. 12, 2002 and closing arguments ended in May. The judge sent the jury back to work after the panel twice claimed it could deliberate no more.
The group's alleged ringleader, Francisco ""Frank'' Vazquez, is thought to have fled the country after charges were filed against him and the others more than two years ago. All the officers were fired.
Prosecutor David Hollister portrayed the Riders as a band of rogue cops who abused their authority to make easy arrests in the dead of night, knowing that the complaints of accused drug dealers with prior criminal records were not likely to carry much weight.
""At its core it was a simple case,'' Hollister said. ""They lied. Again and again they lied.''
But defense attorneys tried to show that the accusers were lying for selfish reasons.
""These honorable officers were caught in a web of lies,'' said Michael Rains, attorney for Mabanag.
Chief Richard Word testified that while he had instructed officers to be aggressive in fighting drug crimes, the accused officers went too far.
In a statement Tuesday, Word said jurors ""performed a very difficult duty and came to their decision.'' He said he stands by his decision to terminate the officers because they ""failed to comply with departmental policy.''
Chronicle Staff Writers Meredith May and Matthew B. Stannard contributed to this report.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2003/09/30/riders30.DTL
"All of the alleged victims were black. There were no African Americans on the 12-member panel that decided the officers' fate, although two of the alternate jurors were black."
...but still...
this shit goes on everyday. time to create autonomous zones where the police are not allowed.
this shit goes on everyday. time to create autonomous zones where the police are not allowed.
Is there a planned action scheduled.
>time to create autonomous zones where the police are not allowed.
that is already happening...do the math...
that is already happening...do the math...
Glad I don't live in Oakland, the City should be embarrassed. Not only did they already pay 11 million to the criminals who filed the false charges, now they are going to pay the cops. It's nice to see the young hard working cops able to retire after a few years and live VERY comfortably for the rest of the lives...LOL
I wonder how much of that intial 11 million is left? LOL bet is already all gone on crack...LOL...LOL..
I wonder how much of that intial 11 million is left? LOL bet is already all gone on crack...LOL...LOL..
The fight is not over. Demand justice for victims' of the OPD Riders.
JOIN PUEBLO & OUR ALLIES IN ADDRESSING THE VERDICT IN THE FIRST RIDERS TRIAL.
The jury in the Riders case has come in with verdicts of Not Guilty on 8 of the counts in the criminal trial of four of the OPD "Riders". The jury was unable to come to agreement on the remaining counts. Neither the victims of the "Riders", nor the residents of Oakland received justice in this first trail.
Join us in continuing to stand against police abuse and harassment and to say "No more!" to the Mayor and the Police Chief. As well as demand a second trail for the other 26 counts where no decisions were reached.
WHAT: RALLY AND PRESS CONFERENCE
WHERE: ALAMEDA COUNTY COURT HOUSE
1225 Fallon Street in Oakland (near Lake Merritt)
WHEN: 12PM (noon) Wednesday, October 1st 2003
For more information contact Nikki at PUEBLO (510) 452-2010 ext.12
JOIN PUEBLO & OUR ALLIES IN ADDRESSING THE VERDICT IN THE FIRST RIDERS TRIAL.
The jury in the Riders case has come in with verdicts of Not Guilty on 8 of the counts in the criminal trial of four of the OPD "Riders". The jury was unable to come to agreement on the remaining counts. Neither the victims of the "Riders", nor the residents of Oakland received justice in this first trail.
Join us in continuing to stand against police abuse and harassment and to say "No more!" to the Mayor and the Police Chief. As well as demand a second trail for the other 26 counts where no decisions were reached.
WHAT: RALLY AND PRESS CONFERENCE
WHERE: ALAMEDA COUNTY COURT HOUSE
1225 Fallon Street in Oakland (near Lake Merritt)
WHEN: 12PM (noon) Wednesday, October 1st 2003
For more information contact Nikki at PUEBLO (510) 452-2010 ext.12
yes, it consists of you going back to work as normal.
if you are hoping for a riot, well you are out of luck.
if you are hoping for a riot, well you are out of luck.
Riders Walk!!!! Stop the War on the African community!
The War in Iraq; the same war on the African community! Wednesday, 7-9pm at the Uhuru House, 7911 MacArthur Blvd, Oakland
The Oakland Riders have just been acquitted on 8 counts of aggregious brutality against the African community:
http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~1666924,00.html
At the same time that these thugs will likely be 100% absolved of their terrorist spree, police are sweeping through East Oakland rounding up every African man they can get their hands on. This should be outrageous to any justice loving human being. It demands some public outcry.
Tomorrow night, Wednesday Oct 1, the International
People's Democratic Uhuru Movement will sponsor a
meeting called "The War in Iraq is the same war on the African community." It will feature Chairman Omali
Yeshitela. Please attend in the interest of organizing
to stop police terror on the African community. We hope to come out of this meeting with an action against police terror in Oakland.
Uhuru! Matthew
The War in Iraq; the same war on the African community! Wednesday, 7-9pm at the Uhuru House, 7911 MacArthur Blvd, Oakland
The Oakland Riders have just been acquitted on 8 counts of aggregious brutality against the African community:
http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~1666924,00.html
At the same time that these thugs will likely be 100% absolved of their terrorist spree, police are sweeping through East Oakland rounding up every African man they can get their hands on. This should be outrageous to any justice loving human being. It demands some public outcry.
Tomorrow night, Wednesday Oct 1, the International
People's Democratic Uhuru Movement will sponsor a
meeting called "The War in Iraq is the same war on the African community." It will feature Chairman Omali
Yeshitela. Please attend in the interest of organizing
to stop police terror on the African community. We hope to come out of this meeting with an action against police terror in Oakland.
Uhuru! Matthew
The fight is not over. Demand justice for victims' of the OPD Riders.
JOIN PUEBLO & OUR ALLIES IN ADDRESSING THE VERDICT IN THE FIRST RIDERS TRIAL.
The jury in the Riders case has come in with verdicts of Not Guilty on 8 of the counts in the criminal trial of four of the OPD "Riders". The jury was unable to come to agreement on the remaining counts. Neither the victims of the "Riders", nor the residents of Oakland received justice in this first trail.
Join us in continuing to stand against police abuse and harassment and to say "No more!" to the Mayor and the Police Chief. As well as demand a second trail for the other 26 counts where no decisions were reached.
WHAT: RALLY AND PRESS CONFERENCE
WHERE: ALAMEDA COUNTY COURT HOUSE
1225 Fallon Street in Oakland (near Lake Merritt)
WHEN: 12PM (noon) Wednesday, October 1st 2003
For more information contact Nikki at PUEBLO (510) 452-2010 ext.12
JOIN PUEBLO & OUR ALLIES IN ADDRESSING THE VERDICT IN THE FIRST RIDERS TRIAL.
The jury in the Riders case has come in with verdicts of Not Guilty on 8 of the counts in the criminal trial of four of the OPD "Riders". The jury was unable to come to agreement on the remaining counts. Neither the victims of the "Riders", nor the residents of Oakland received justice in this first trail.
Join us in continuing to stand against police abuse and harassment and to say "No more!" to the Mayor and the Police Chief. As well as demand a second trail for the other 26 counts where no decisions were reached.
WHAT: RALLY AND PRESS CONFERENCE
WHERE: ALAMEDA COUNTY COURT HOUSE
1225 Fallon Street in Oakland (near Lake Merritt)
WHEN: 12PM (noon) Wednesday, October 1st 2003
For more information contact Nikki at PUEBLO (510) 452-2010 ext.12
not guilty on 7 charges, with the jury hung on the rest!
this tells me there was little if any merit to the charges that where filed against the officers.
most likely the DA saw an oppratunity to grand stand!
this tells me there was little if any merit to the charges that where filed against the officers.
most likely the DA saw an oppratunity to grand stand!
according to the findings of the jury , "there are NO victims of the Riders"
Riders off the street.....Murder rate skyrockets....Hmmmmm
Kinda what happens when you take good, hard working, aggressive cops off the street.
Kinda what happens when you take good, hard working, aggressive cops off the street.
Kinda what happens when you take good, hard working, aggressive cops off the street.
not a single guilty! from the jury
sounds like a very weak case, if not an out right set up!
you do notice that the press had tried the case and found them guilty long before the trial even started.
BUT AS USUAL THE PRESS IS WRONG!!
not a single guilty! from the jury
sounds like a very weak case, if not an out right set up!
you do notice that the press had tried the case and found them guilty long before the trial even started.
BUT AS USUAL THE PRESS IS WRONG!!
John Idiot Public was born yesterday, and thinks Oakland has only had crime since he noticed it, conveniently, when he chose to.
Wonder why John didn't have the guts to go do his duty in Iraq? Go on John, why don't you explain it to us? If you were a real man, an agressive man, like the 'riders' are, you'd be doing your duty to your country right now, driving as fast as you could to keep from getting shot through your Kevlar vest.
Wonder why John didn't have the guts to go do his duty in Iraq? Go on John, why don't you explain it to us? If you were a real man, an agressive man, like the 'riders' are, you'd be doing your duty to your country right now, driving as fast as you could to keep from getting shot through your Kevlar vest.
I fight a war here at home everyday my brother, I do my part. Why don't you do yours and get a job to start....LOL...LOL
You fight a war against the People, you mercenary.
If you think all the "People" are criminals than you are correct, I love my war...LOL. Luckily for you guys there are people like me, otherwise you would not have the computer you are writing this on...LOL
When is the last time ANY of you people prevented, interupted, or caught a criminal in your neighborhood? (excluding Nessie, apparently he is GOD).
Why do they keep censoring "Brother D Day and Q2's comments?
When is the last time ANY of you people prevented, interupted, or caught a criminal in your neighborhood? (excluding Nessie, apparently he is GOD).
Why do they keep censoring "Brother D Day and Q2's comments?
why don't the censor you?
Basically, Yes, this site is not big on the truth.
mr. public obviously spends a lot of time here.
it's obvious he considers this site a threat. otherwise, why spend any time at all trolling the comment forums?
well, mr. public, that's the one thing you are right about. we are a threat to your precious way of life, which is built of death and misery for billions.
luckily for us, we dont have to do anything to you. your economy will take care of the job. you can wave your idiotic flag while your forage for food in the suburbs.
your dollars are worthless, and americnas don't make anything. you're fucked. you know it, and yet all you can do is be a petty, afraid little person, trolling the boards of the few people that have a solution and a way out..
you are a coward, just like the american soldiers that obey illegal orders everyday. and you'll meet the same fate.
it's obvious he considers this site a threat. otherwise, why spend any time at all trolling the comment forums?
well, mr. public, that's the one thing you are right about. we are a threat to your precious way of life, which is built of death and misery for billions.
luckily for us, we dont have to do anything to you. your economy will take care of the job. you can wave your idiotic flag while your forage for food in the suburbs.
your dollars are worthless, and americnas don't make anything. you're fucked. you know it, and yet all you can do is be a petty, afraid little person, trolling the boards of the few people that have a solution and a way out..
you are a coward, just like the american soldiers that obey illegal orders everyday. and you'll meet the same fate.
And we are not in the same boat because?......................
...i'm not an american, you idiot.
Sorry to hear that, so you have never bought anything in your life? you live off the land?, in a cave?, no job?, no money? How are you on a computer?
Grow up little fella....LOL
Grow up little fella....LOL
Less than three hundred years old and we OWN the world...LOL..LOL What a Country...LOL...LOL
Trust me bro, in my lifetime I will never be foraging for food. After that, I really don't give a shit.....LOL...LOL
Trust me bro, in my lifetime I will never be foraging for food. After that, I really don't give a shit.....LOL...LOL
That's right, because pretty soon US will piss off the world so much that we'll be nuked, and then John Po Po, you won't want to forage for food - it'll do you in faster.
John Po Po, why do you hate so much? Why do you love war? What happened to make you think this was such a good thing? Don't you have a family? Don't you know about what we all teach our children - don't hurt other people, don't kill people, use your words?
Why are you so afraid John Po Po? Don't you ever go to a church or a place where people support eachother? Don't you have people who you know wouldn't want you or anyone to die in a war? People that care about you?
These days we have international laws designed to prevent wars. The US is the rogue state more than any other.
John Po Po, why do you hate so much? Why do you love war? What happened to make you think this was such a good thing? Don't you have a family? Don't you know about what we all teach our children - don't hurt other people, don't kill people, use your words?
Why are you so afraid John Po Po? Don't you ever go to a church or a place where people support eachother? Don't you have people who you know wouldn't want you or anyone to die in a war? People that care about you?
These days we have international laws designed to prevent wars. The US is the rogue state more than any other.
Telly you misunderstood my comments. I stated nothing about was among nations. While I do not like war, I know that sometimes it is necessary.
As for my own little "war", it is a war against criminals, and that I do love. I love my job and I love putting bad people in jail. Anything wrong with that?
As for my own little "war", it is a war against criminals, and that I do love. I love my job and I love putting bad people in jail. Anything wrong with that?
A person who breaks the law, right?
But corporations are breaking laws right and left. Do you take any stand against corporations breaking laws?
What about the fact that the US broke the international agreement it made by signing the UN Charter - the UN Charter says that pre-emptive war is illegal. Do you take any stand against the US breaking international laws?
I don't mean literally, just your opinions.
But corporations are breaking laws right and left. Do you take any stand against corporations breaking laws?
What about the fact that the US broke the international agreement it made by signing the UN Charter - the UN Charter says that pre-emptive war is illegal. Do you take any stand against the US breaking international laws?
I don't mean literally, just your opinions.
Do you take any stand against the US breaking international laws
yes dump the UN...
for you brain dead twit's who love to pretend to be SOooo......offended by the WTO, it seems every time one of you genetic throw-backs talk your self into a corner you try to play the UN card...and sing a chorus of we are the world, IN doing so you have proven exactly how dis-associated you really are to any educated understanding of the issues. pretend-activisom is no answer leave the protesting to the real activists!
"congradulations on shooting your self in the foot"
yes dump the UN...
for you brain dead twit's who love to pretend to be SOooo......offended by the WTO, it seems every time one of you genetic throw-backs talk your self into a corner you try to play the UN card...and sing a chorus of we are the world, IN doing so you have proven exactly how dis-associated you really are to any educated understanding of the issues. pretend-activisom is no answer leave the protesting to the real activists!
"congradulations on shooting your self in the foot"
Tell me what you know about the UN. Go on. Go ahead and explain to me what you know about the UN.
If you haven't already noticed, the US chooses which aspects of the UN it will respect and abide by, and which it will control and use for it's own benefit. The US chooses to ignore international law, from its powerful position on the Security Council as a permanent member, while 'respecting' the WTO trade laws and controlling that organization.
In this way the UN is being abused by the US and indeed, becomes a tool that the US uses to abuse the rest of the world.
But the UN does a lot of other things. Go ahead and name them.
If you haven't already noticed, the US chooses which aspects of the UN it will respect and abide by, and which it will control and use for it's own benefit. The US chooses to ignore international law, from its powerful position on the Security Council as a permanent member, while 'respecting' the WTO trade laws and controlling that organization.
In this way the UN is being abused by the US and indeed, becomes a tool that the US uses to abuse the rest of the world.
But the UN does a lot of other things. Go ahead and name them.
I disagree with you, just because you break the law does not make you a bad person. I enjoy putting predators in jail.
As far as the UN, well you are in the wrong thread. I can guess you know much more about the UN than I do. Why?, beacuse I really don't care about the UN. I don't enforce their laws or any other international civil law. I also don't think this County needs the UN (we have done pretty good by ourselves already, see above statement).
Anyway, I would be happy to discuss the threads topic or answer any questions you have regarding California law or law enforcement in general.
As far as the UN, well you are in the wrong thread. I can guess you know much more about the UN than I do. Why?, beacuse I really don't care about the UN. I don't enforce their laws or any other international civil law. I also don't think this County needs the UN (we have done pretty good by ourselves already, see above statement).
Anyway, I would be happy to discuss the threads topic or answer any questions you have regarding California law or law enforcement in general.
Yes, well I couldn't tell how much of a right-winger you were, and rwingers often use phrases like 'bad people' and 'evil' and 'terrorists,' etc., so I thought you might identify with that. I'm glad to hear that you don't.
Why don't you care about the UN? I'd guess in part because the US wants its citizens to not care, and so it is never talked about or promoted in this country, so the average person in the US knows almost nothing about it.
I think it's relevant to this thread because it's about law enforcement, and the abuse of those trying to properly enforce laws. The US violates the ability of the UN to operate by ignoring the laws, and gets away with it because it is so powerful.
How did the Riders get away with it?
To me, it looks like the white suburbanites really don't have a clue about what the hardcore parts of Oakland are like, and the ways that some officers might choose to respond to that level of violence, and so stacking the deck with naiive people sets up a situation where they would never believe what actually might go on there. They probably have a fairytale image of how officers behave, in the same way that someone who knows nothing about the UN might have a fairytale image of how the US might behave in the UN Security Council.
Recently I saw a news story where some Oakland cops grabbed a teenager who had walked over to see what was happening when they were making an arrest of someone. The teenager didn't do anything to them, was simply observing, and someone else there started filming the way the cops grabbed this teenager and bascially beat on him, just for being there. They grabbed the guy's camera who was filming and looked for a tape - there wasn't any. Funny thing was that they didn't know it was using a chip to record onto, so they gave it back. That's how I got to see the film of them beating up the teenager on the news. But otherwise, nothing would ever have come out.
This is how it is in Oakland.
If you're a black person and you're standing on a corner for too long, you go to jail.
Why don't you care about the UN? I'd guess in part because the US wants its citizens to not care, and so it is never talked about or promoted in this country, so the average person in the US knows almost nothing about it.
I think it's relevant to this thread because it's about law enforcement, and the abuse of those trying to properly enforce laws. The US violates the ability of the UN to operate by ignoring the laws, and gets away with it because it is so powerful.
How did the Riders get away with it?
To me, it looks like the white suburbanites really don't have a clue about what the hardcore parts of Oakland are like, and the ways that some officers might choose to respond to that level of violence, and so stacking the deck with naiive people sets up a situation where they would never believe what actually might go on there. They probably have a fairytale image of how officers behave, in the same way that someone who knows nothing about the UN might have a fairytale image of how the US might behave in the UN Security Council.
Recently I saw a news story where some Oakland cops grabbed a teenager who had walked over to see what was happening when they were making an arrest of someone. The teenager didn't do anything to them, was simply observing, and someone else there started filming the way the cops grabbed this teenager and bascially beat on him, just for being there. They grabbed the guy's camera who was filming and looked for a tape - there wasn't any. Funny thing was that they didn't know it was using a chip to record onto, so they gave it back. That's how I got to see the film of them beating up the teenager on the news. But otherwise, nothing would ever have come out.
This is how it is in Oakland.
If you're a black person and you're standing on a corner for too long, you go to jail.
I post here from time to time especially on Oakland issues. I've gotten into it with Nessie because I supported the seizure of vehicles when people come into low-income neighborhoods trying to purchase drugs or pick up hookers. After all, this type of behavior would never be permitted in affluent neighborhoods. In short, I argued that police should provide the same level of service in working class communities as in the hills.
By and large I've found the Oakland Police to be increasingly responsive to the community I live in and I've lived in the flatlands for over ten years. For far too long the OPD was oblivoious to the needs of low-income and working-class communities. I remember the early 90s when there were crack shoot outs and crazy s*it going down all the time. My neighborhood was a dangerous place.
I do not consider myself a conservative but when the police cracked down and cleaned things up, the neighborhood became a genuinely better place to live in and raise kids. I suspect that's what most folks in my neighborhood want and that's why we are not outraged by the activities of the police.
It's telling that people automatically assume a jury that contained no black people automatically was "all white" and "naive." After all, that white jury could never have deliberated in a reasonable fashion based on the facts. Never mind that the jury could have had Latinos, Asians, and other ethnic groups typcially lumped under the rubric of "people of color." Instead, condemn the verdict as an example of American injustice.
And Telly who wrote:
"If you're a black person and you're standing on a corner for too long, you go to jail."
Clearly does not live in Oakland. There are black people hanging out on corners in all parts of Oakland. On MLK, on San P, On E 14th, etc. etc. etc. So this is clearly a statement based on emotionalism as opposed to any verifiable empirical data.
If s/he wants to contest this fact with an experiment s/he can conduct herself, please roll down San Pablo Ave. from downtown to Stanford Ave and notice the folks you past hanging out on the corners. Then turn around and proceed back downtown and see if you can notice how many folks were picked up by the police. I bet you could even grab lunch before you turned around and when you did those people would still be chillin' on the corners.
If that is not convincing enough, try this one out. On a Friday night, say around 9:30 pm, drive by the Giant Burger on San Pablo Ave and have a look at who is hanging out in the parking lot. Drive by again in a 1/2 an hour and I suspect the same people will be there. Likewise in next 1/2 hour and so on into the eveing until they get sweated by 5-0.
By and large I've found the Oakland Police to be increasingly responsive to the community I live in and I've lived in the flatlands for over ten years. For far too long the OPD was oblivoious to the needs of low-income and working-class communities. I remember the early 90s when there were crack shoot outs and crazy s*it going down all the time. My neighborhood was a dangerous place.
I do not consider myself a conservative but when the police cracked down and cleaned things up, the neighborhood became a genuinely better place to live in and raise kids. I suspect that's what most folks in my neighborhood want and that's why we are not outraged by the activities of the police.
It's telling that people automatically assume a jury that contained no black people automatically was "all white" and "naive." After all, that white jury could never have deliberated in a reasonable fashion based on the facts. Never mind that the jury could have had Latinos, Asians, and other ethnic groups typcially lumped under the rubric of "people of color." Instead, condemn the verdict as an example of American injustice.
And Telly who wrote:
"If you're a black person and you're standing on a corner for too long, you go to jail."
Clearly does not live in Oakland. There are black people hanging out on corners in all parts of Oakland. On MLK, on San P, On E 14th, etc. etc. etc. So this is clearly a statement based on emotionalism as opposed to any verifiable empirical data.
If s/he wants to contest this fact with an experiment s/he can conduct herself, please roll down San Pablo Ave. from downtown to Stanford Ave and notice the folks you past hanging out on the corners. Then turn around and proceed back downtown and see if you can notice how many folks were picked up by the police. I bet you could even grab lunch before you turned around and when you did those people would still be chillin' on the corners.
If that is not convincing enough, try this one out. On a Friday night, say around 9:30 pm, drive by the Giant Burger on San Pablo Ave and have a look at who is hanging out in the parking lot. Drive by again in a 1/2 an hour and I suspect the same people will be there. Likewise in next 1/2 hour and so on into the eveing until they get sweated by 5-0.
I post here from time to time especially on Oakland issues. I've gotten into it with Nessie because I supported the seizure of vehicles when people come into low-income neighborhoods trying to purchase drugs or pick up hookers. After all, this type of behavior would never be permitted in affluent neighborhoods. In short, I argued that police should provide the same level of service in working class communities as in the hills.
By and large I've found the Oakland Police to be increasingly responsive to the community I live in and I've lived in the flatlands for over ten years. For far too long the OPD was oblivoious to the needs of low-income and working-class communities. I remember the early 90s when there were crack shoot outs and crazy s*it going down all the time. My neighborhood was a dangerous place.
I do not consider myself a conservative but when the police cracked down and cleaned things up, the neighborhood became a genuinely better place to live in and raise kids. I suspect that's what most folks in my neighborhood want and that's why we are not outraged by the activities of the police.
It's telling that people automatically assume a jury that contained no black people automatically was "all white" and "naive." After all, that white jury could never have deliberated in a reasonable fashion based on the facts. Never mind that the jury could have had Latinos, Asians, and other ethnic groups typcially lumped under the rubric of "people of color." Instead, condemn the verdict as an example of American injustice.
And Telly who wrote:
"If you're a black person and you're standing on a corner for too long, you go to jail."
Clearly does not live in Oakland. There are black people hanging out on corners in all parts of Oakland. On MLK, on San P, On E 14th, etc. etc. etc. So this is clearly a statement based on emotionalism as opposed to any verifiable empirical data.
If s/he wants to contest this fact with an experiment s/he can conduct herself, please roll down San Pablo Ave. from downtown to Stanford Ave and notice the folks you past hanging out on the corners. Then turn around and proceed back downtown and see if you can notice how many folks were picked up by the police. I bet you could even grab lunch before you turned around and when you did those people would still be chillin' on the corners.
If that is not convincing enough, try this one out. On a Friday night, say around 9:30 pm, drive by the Giant Burger on San Pablo Ave and have a look at who is hanging out in the parking lot. Drive by again in a 1/2 an hour and I suspect the same people will be there. Likewise in next 1/2 hour and so on into the eveing until they get sweated by 5-0.
By and large I've found the Oakland Police to be increasingly responsive to the community I live in and I've lived in the flatlands for over ten years. For far too long the OPD was oblivoious to the needs of low-income and working-class communities. I remember the early 90s when there were crack shoot outs and crazy s*it going down all the time. My neighborhood was a dangerous place.
I do not consider myself a conservative but when the police cracked down and cleaned things up, the neighborhood became a genuinely better place to live in and raise kids. I suspect that's what most folks in my neighborhood want and that's why we are not outraged by the activities of the police.
It's telling that people automatically assume a jury that contained no black people automatically was "all white" and "naive." After all, that white jury could never have deliberated in a reasonable fashion based on the facts. Never mind that the jury could have had Latinos, Asians, and other ethnic groups typcially lumped under the rubric of "people of color." Instead, condemn the verdict as an example of American injustice.
And Telly who wrote:
"If you're a black person and you're standing on a corner for too long, you go to jail."
Clearly does not live in Oakland. There are black people hanging out on corners in all parts of Oakland. On MLK, on San P, On E 14th, etc. etc. etc. So this is clearly a statement based on emotionalism as opposed to any verifiable empirical data.
If s/he wants to contest this fact with an experiment s/he can conduct herself, please roll down San Pablo Ave. from downtown to Stanford Ave and notice the folks you past hanging out on the corners. Then turn around and proceed back downtown and see if you can notice how many folks were picked up by the police. I bet you could even grab lunch before you turned around and when you did those people would still be chillin' on the corners.
If that is not convincing enough, try this one out. On a Friday night, say around 9:30 pm, drive by the Giant Burger on San Pablo Ave and have a look at who is hanging out in the parking lot. Drive by again in a 1/2 an hour and I suspect the same people will be there. Likewise in next 1/2 hour and so on into the eveing until they get sweated by 5-0.
<<I post here from time to time especially on Oakland issues....>>
yea, and everytime you do, you demonstrate only that you're a myopic fool.
<<....I've lived in the flatlands for over ten years.>>
do you wanna fucking cookie?
here's some news for you "oakland resident": a good many of us live in the "flatlands", but, unlike you, we don't feel a need to invoke that fact everytime we offer our views on capitalist america's deteriorating social conditions.
<<I do not consider myself a conservative but when the police...>
beat the shit out of all the negroes hanging out on MY block, hey, who am i to complain?
<<It's telling that people automatically assume a jury that contained no black people automatically was "all white" and "naive.">>
oh, I know, assuming that a jury without blacks would rule on the sied of the pigs against poor blacks is outragous! horrors!
yea, and everytime you do, you demonstrate only that you're a myopic fool.
<<....I've lived in the flatlands for over ten years.>>
do you wanna fucking cookie?
here's some news for you "oakland resident": a good many of us live in the "flatlands", but, unlike you, we don't feel a need to invoke that fact everytime we offer our views on capitalist america's deteriorating social conditions.
<<I do not consider myself a conservative but when the police...>
beat the shit out of all the negroes hanging out on MY block, hey, who am i to complain?
<<It's telling that people automatically assume a jury that contained no black people automatically was "all white" and "naive.">>
oh, I know, assuming that a jury without blacks would rule on the sied of the pigs against poor blacks is outragous! horrors!
the vast majority of residents here in Oakland are supportive of the former Oakland police (that the news papers have portrayed as the riders)
I do not like the fact that this trial was tried in the press
and a guilty verdict rendered before a court trial even started.
the fact that not one guilty verdict was returned tells me that their was NO PROOF of wrong doing. and Oakland can see this in the verdict!
I hope the officers get rehired
Tim in Oakland
I do not like the fact that this trial was tried in the press
and a guilty verdict rendered before a court trial even started.
the fact that not one guilty verdict was returned tells me that their was NO PROOF of wrong doing. and Oakland can see this in the verdict!
I hope the officers get rehired
Tim in Oakland
That's what they said about the cops who beat Rodney King, too.
the vast majority of residents here in Oakland are supportive of the former Oakland police (that the news papers have portrayed as the riders)
I do not like the fact that this trial was tried in the press
and a guilty verdict rendered before a court trial even started.
the fact that not one guilty verdict was returned tells me that their was NO PROOF of wrong doing. and Oakland can see this in the verdict!
I hope the officers get rehired
Tim in Oakland
I do not like the fact that this trial was tried in the press
and a guilty verdict rendered before a court trial even started.
the fact that not one guilty verdict was returned tells me that their was NO PROOF of wrong doing. and Oakland can see this in the verdict!
I hope the officers get rehired
Tim in Oakland
Rehired? They are done working for the rest of their lives. The city will pay them enough to live in style for a long time. Trust me, they may not promote it to be politically correct, so it may not be in the papers, but the city will pay them.They have to, they were victims, their lawyers are foaming at the mouth right now...LOL..LOL
"oh, I know, assuming that a jury without blacks would rule on the sied of the pigs against poor blacks is outragous! horrors"
Ah Aaron, the voice of the mindless. What you assumed was that a jury would be all White if there were no Blacks. You discounted the possibility of Latinos, Asians, and so on as I stated above. But as usual, you dodge a logical statement and respond with emotionalism. What a surprise!
I feel the "need to announce" how long I've lived where I have because so many of you on the loony left clearly have no idea what conditions are like for the people you claim to speak for. Those of us truly at the grass-roots do. And when we say we want more police and less drug dealing in our communities you claim we are "conservatives" who don't know what we are talking about. And you wonder why the left is perceived as elitist in this country...
Look Aaron you may want to spend your life complaining about how you have it so hard in America but if you got up and did something with your life you might realize this country has a lot to offer. Poor people have much more oportunity here than in most countries and a big part of that is our embrace of the free markey and limited government. I know you hate to hear that but ask yourself why so many people come here. You'll probably say its due to the wars that our evil government has caused all over the world and wars are part of it. But the vast majority come here for the economic opportunities this nation offers. I do not know your ethnic background but that may have been why your relatives came here as well.
It's all about making a better life for ourselves and our families. What don't you get about that?
I know, I know, the American Dream is a myth. Instead the loony left calls for "revoluion" and an end to capitalism. The real deal is people like you want to keep the poor in poverty and prevent the working-class from success. I am thankful that people like you are on the extreme fringes of the political process in this country.
Ah Aaron, the voice of the mindless. What you assumed was that a jury would be all White if there were no Blacks. You discounted the possibility of Latinos, Asians, and so on as I stated above. But as usual, you dodge a logical statement and respond with emotionalism. What a surprise!
I feel the "need to announce" how long I've lived where I have because so many of you on the loony left clearly have no idea what conditions are like for the people you claim to speak for. Those of us truly at the grass-roots do. And when we say we want more police and less drug dealing in our communities you claim we are "conservatives" who don't know what we are talking about. And you wonder why the left is perceived as elitist in this country...
Look Aaron you may want to spend your life complaining about how you have it so hard in America but if you got up and did something with your life you might realize this country has a lot to offer. Poor people have much more oportunity here than in most countries and a big part of that is our embrace of the free markey and limited government. I know you hate to hear that but ask yourself why so many people come here. You'll probably say its due to the wars that our evil government has caused all over the world and wars are part of it. But the vast majority come here for the economic opportunities this nation offers. I do not know your ethnic background but that may have been why your relatives came here as well.
It's all about making a better life for ourselves and our families. What don't you get about that?
I know, I know, the American Dream is a myth. Instead the loony left calls for "revoluion" and an end to capitalism. The real deal is people like you want to keep the poor in poverty and prevent the working-class from success. I am thankful that people like you are on the extreme fringes of the political process in this country.
"oh, I know, assuming that a jury without blacks would rule on the sied of the pigs against poor blacks is outragous! horrors"
Ah Aaron, the voice of the mindless. What you assumed was that a jury would be all White if there were no Blacks. You discounted the possibility of Latinos, Asians, and so on as I stated above. But as usual, you dodge a logical statement and respond with emotionalism. What a surprise!
I feel the "need to announce" how long I've lived where I have because so many of you on the loony left clearly have no idea what conditions are like for the people you claim to speak for. Those of us truly at the grass-roots do. And when we say we want more police and less drug dealing in our communities you claim we are "conservatives" who don't know what we are talking about. And you wonder why the left is perceived as elitist in this country...
Look Aaron you may want to spend your life complaining about how you have it so hard in America but if you got up and did something with your life you might realize this country has a lot to offer. Poor people have much more oportunity here than in most countries and a big part of that is our embrace of the free markey and limited government. I know you hate to hear that but ask yourself why so many people come here. You'll probably say its due to the wars that our evil government has caused all over the world and wars are part of it. But the vast majority come here for the economic opportunities this nation offers. I do not know your ethnic background but that may have been why your relatives came here as well.
It's all about making a better life for ourselves and our families. What don't you get about that?
I know, I know, the American Dream is a myth. Instead the loony left calls for "revoluion" and an end to capitalism. The real deal is people like you want to keep the poor in poverty and prevent the working-class from success. I am thankful that people like you are on the extreme fringes of the political process in this country.
Ah Aaron, the voice of the mindless. What you assumed was that a jury would be all White if there were no Blacks. You discounted the possibility of Latinos, Asians, and so on as I stated above. But as usual, you dodge a logical statement and respond with emotionalism. What a surprise!
I feel the "need to announce" how long I've lived where I have because so many of you on the loony left clearly have no idea what conditions are like for the people you claim to speak for. Those of us truly at the grass-roots do. And when we say we want more police and less drug dealing in our communities you claim we are "conservatives" who don't know what we are talking about. And you wonder why the left is perceived as elitist in this country...
Look Aaron you may want to spend your life complaining about how you have it so hard in America but if you got up and did something with your life you might realize this country has a lot to offer. Poor people have much more oportunity here than in most countries and a big part of that is our embrace of the free markey and limited government. I know you hate to hear that but ask yourself why so many people come here. You'll probably say its due to the wars that our evil government has caused all over the world and wars are part of it. But the vast majority come here for the economic opportunities this nation offers. I do not know your ethnic background but that may have been why your relatives came here as well.
It's all about making a better life for ourselves and our families. What don't you get about that?
I know, I know, the American Dream is a myth. Instead the loony left calls for "revoluion" and an end to capitalism. The real deal is people like you want to keep the poor in poverty and prevent the working-class from success. I am thankful that people like you are on the extreme fringes of the political process in this country.
when in doubt, the species rightus dinasoraus pulls out his trusty "if you leftists really knew what made this country great" speech, tells his antagonist to get a job, makes a couple vague, seemingly pertinent quips and calls it a day.
this thread begins with an article reporting that 34.6 million americans live at or below the official poverty line.
like I said before, to qualify as empoverished by the government a family of four must make less than $19,000/yearly. to give a sense of how miserably deceptive government poverty figures are, a family of THREE in the Bay Area can make TWICE that figure and barely get by. and a dim bulb calling itself Oakland Resident claims all is well in the imperial heartland.
go suck an egg, Oakland Resident.
this thread begins with an article reporting that 34.6 million americans live at or below the official poverty line.
like I said before, to qualify as empoverished by the government a family of four must make less than $19,000/yearly. to give a sense of how miserably deceptive government poverty figures are, a family of THREE in the Bay Area can make TWICE that figure and barely get by. and a dim bulb calling itself Oakland Resident claims all is well in the imperial heartland.
go suck an egg, Oakland Resident.
<<this thread begins with an article reporting that..>>
since this thread went off on the same drift as the "us poverty" thread, i mistook them.
since this thread went off on the same drift as the "us poverty" thread, i mistook them.
Oakland CLEARLY SUPPORTS the Oakland police and will not betray them!
you sniveling goes un-answered
>I am thankful that people like you are on the extreme fringes of the political process in this country.
I am thankful that this country is only six percent of humanity.
I am thankful that this country is only six percent of humanity.
I am thankful that this country is only six percent of humanity.
what a moron, if you don't like it here so much then go be a burden on some other country!
what a moron, if you don't like it here so much then go be a burden on some other country!
You people are out numbered.
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