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ROBERT FISK: Palestinian, intellectual, and fighter, Edward Said dies at age 67
...he had even less patience with American television anchors. "When I went on air," he told me once, "the Israeli consul in New York said I was a terrorist and wanted to kill him. And what did the anchorwoman say to me? 'Mr Said, why do you want to kill the Israeli consul?' How do you reply to such garbage?" Edward was a rare bird. He was both an icon and an iconoclast.
Palestinian, intellectual, and fighter, Edward Said rails against Arafat and Sharon to his dying breath
By Robert Fisk Middle East Correspondent
26 September 2003
The last time I saw Edward Said, I asked him to go on living. I knew about his leukaemia. He had often pointed out that he was receiving "state-of-the-art" treatment from a Jewish doctor and - despite all the trash that his enemies threw at him - he always acknowledged the kindness and honour of his Jewish friends, of whom Daniel Barenboim was among the finest.
Edward was dining at a buffet among his family in Beirut, frail but angry at Arafat's latest surrender in Palestine/Israel. And he answered my question like a soldier. "I'm not going to die," he said. "Because so many people want me dead."
On Wednesday night he died in a New York hospital, aged 67.
I first met him in the early years of the Lebanese civil war. I'd heard of this man, this intellectual fighter and linguist and academic and musicologist and - God spare me for my ignorance in the 1970s - didn't know much about him. I was told to go to an apartment near Hamra street in Beirut.
There was shooting in the streets - how easily we all came to accept the normality of war - but when I climbed the steps to the apartment, I heard a Beethoven piano sonata. No, it wasn't the "Moonlight"- nothing so popular for Edward - but I waited outside the brown-painted door for 10 minutes until he had finished.
"You've read my books, Robert - but I bet you haven't read my work on music," he once scolded me. And of course, I scuttled off to Librarie Internationale in the Gefinor Building in Beirut to buy his definitive book to add to my collection; his wonderful essays on the Palestinians, his excoriation of the corruption and viciousness of Yasser Arafat, his outraged condemnation of the criminality of Ariel Sharon.
He was not a flawless man. He could be arrogant, he could be ruthless in his criticism. He could be repetitive. He could be angry to the point of irradiation. But he had much to be angry about. One afternoon, I went to see him at the Beirut home of his sister Jean - a fine lady whose own account of the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, Beirut Fragments, is worthy of her brother's integrity - and he was half-lying on a sofa.
"I'm just a bit tired because of the leukaemia treatment," he said. "I keep on going. I'll not stop."
He was a tough guy, the most eloquent defender of an occupied people and the most irascible attacker of its corrupt leadership. Arafat banned his books in the occupied territories - proving the immensity of Said and the intellectual impoverishment of Arafat.
At that first meeting in Beirut in the late Seventies, I had asked him about Arafat. "I went to a meeting he held in Beirut the other day," he said. "And Arafat stood there and was questioned about a future Palestinian state, and all he could say was that 'You must ask every Palestinian child this question.' Everyone clapped. But what did he mean? What on earth was he talking about? It was rhetoric. But it meant nothing."
After Arafat went along with the Oslo accords, Said was the first - rightly - to attack him. Arafat had never seen a Jewish settlement in the occupied territories, he said. There wasn't a single Palestinian lawyer present during the Oslo negotiations. Said was immediately condemned - all of us who said that Oslo would be a catastrophic failure were - as "anti-peace" and, by vicious extension, "pro-terrorist".
Said would weary of the need to repeat the Palestinian story, the importance of denouncing the old lies - one of them, which especially enraged him, was the myth that Arab radio stations had called upon the Palestinian Arabs of 1948 to abandon their homes in the new Israeli state - but he would repeat, over and over again, the importance of re-telling the tale of Palestinian tragedy.
He was abused by anonymous callers, his office was visited by a fire-bomber, and he was libelled many times by Jewish Americans who hated that he, a professor of literature at Columbia University, could so eloquently and vigorously defend his occupied people.
An attempt was made, in his dying days, to deprive him of his academic job by some cruel supporters of Israel who claimed - the same old, mendacious slur - that he was an anti-Semite. Columbia, in a long but slightly ambivalent statement, defended him. When the Jewish head of Harvard expressed his concern about the rise of "anti-Semitism" in the United States - by those who dared to criticise Israel - Said wrote scathingly that a Jewish academic who was head of Harvard "complains about anti-Semitism!"
As his health declined, he was invited to give a lecture in northern England. I can still hear the lady who organised it complaining that he insisted on flying business class. But why not? Was a critically ill man, fighting for his life and his people, not allowed some comfort across the Atlantic? His friendship with the brilliant Barenboim - and their joint support for an Arab-Israeli orchestra that only last month played in Morocco - was proof of his human decency. When Barenboim was refused permission to play in Ramallah, Said rearranged his concert - much to the fury of the Sharon government, for which Said had only contempt.
The last time I saw him, he was exalted with happiness at the marriage of his son to a beautiful young woman. The time I saw him before, he had been moved to infuriation by the failure of Palestinians in Boston to arrange his slides to a lecture on the "right of return" of Palestinians to Palestine in the right order. Like all serious academics, he wanted accuracy. All the greater was his fury when one of his enemies claimed that he was never a true refugee from Palestine because he was in Cairo at the time of the Palestinian dispossession.
He had no truck with sloppy journalism - take a look at Covering Islam, on the reporting of the Iranian revolution - and he had even less patience with American television anchors. "When I went on air," he told me once, "the Israeli consul in New York said I was a terrorist and wanted to kill him. And what did the anchorwoman say to me? 'Mr Said, why do you want to kill the Israeli consul?' How do you reply to such garbage?"
Edward was a rare bird. He was both an icon and an iconoclast.
'Has the peace rhetoric been a gigantic fraud?'
Edited extract from an article by Edward Said, first printed in the 'London Review of Books' on 14 December 2000:
WHAT OF this vaunted peace process? What has it achieved and why, if indeed it was a peace process, has the miserable condition of the Palestinians and the loss of life become so much worse than before the Oslo Accords were signed in September 1993? And what does it mean to speak of peace if Israeli troops and settlements are still present in such large numbers? Again, according to the Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 110,000 Jews lived in illegal settlements in Gaza and the West Bank before Oslo; the number has since increased to 195,000, a figure that doesn't include those Jews who have taken up residence in Arab East Jerusalem. Has the world been deluded or has the rhetoric of "peace" been in essence a gigantic fraud?
Some of the answers to these questions lie buried in reams of documents signed by the two parties, unread except by the small handful of people who negotiated them. Others are simply ignored by the media and the governments whose job, it now appears, was to press on with disastrous information, investment and enforcement policies, regardless of the horrors taking place on the ground. A few people, myself included, have tried to chronicle what has been going on, from the initial Palestinian surrender at Oslo until the present, but in comparison with the mainstream media and governments, not to mention the status reports and recommendations circulated by huge funding agencies like the World Bank, the European Union and many private foundations - notably the Ford Foundation - who have played along with the deception, our voices have had a negligible effect except, sadly, as prophecy.
By Robert Fisk Middle East Correspondent
26 September 2003
The last time I saw Edward Said, I asked him to go on living. I knew about his leukaemia. He had often pointed out that he was receiving "state-of-the-art" treatment from a Jewish doctor and - despite all the trash that his enemies threw at him - he always acknowledged the kindness and honour of his Jewish friends, of whom Daniel Barenboim was among the finest.
Edward was dining at a buffet among his family in Beirut, frail but angry at Arafat's latest surrender in Palestine/Israel. And he answered my question like a soldier. "I'm not going to die," he said. "Because so many people want me dead."
On Wednesday night he died in a New York hospital, aged 67.
I first met him in the early years of the Lebanese civil war. I'd heard of this man, this intellectual fighter and linguist and academic and musicologist and - God spare me for my ignorance in the 1970s - didn't know much about him. I was told to go to an apartment near Hamra street in Beirut.
There was shooting in the streets - how easily we all came to accept the normality of war - but when I climbed the steps to the apartment, I heard a Beethoven piano sonata. No, it wasn't the "Moonlight"- nothing so popular for Edward - but I waited outside the brown-painted door for 10 minutes until he had finished.
"You've read my books, Robert - but I bet you haven't read my work on music," he once scolded me. And of course, I scuttled off to Librarie Internationale in the Gefinor Building in Beirut to buy his definitive book to add to my collection; his wonderful essays on the Palestinians, his excoriation of the corruption and viciousness of Yasser Arafat, his outraged condemnation of the criminality of Ariel Sharon.
He was not a flawless man. He could be arrogant, he could be ruthless in his criticism. He could be repetitive. He could be angry to the point of irradiation. But he had much to be angry about. One afternoon, I went to see him at the Beirut home of his sister Jean - a fine lady whose own account of the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, Beirut Fragments, is worthy of her brother's integrity - and he was half-lying on a sofa.
"I'm just a bit tired because of the leukaemia treatment," he said. "I keep on going. I'll not stop."
He was a tough guy, the most eloquent defender of an occupied people and the most irascible attacker of its corrupt leadership. Arafat banned his books in the occupied territories - proving the immensity of Said and the intellectual impoverishment of Arafat.
At that first meeting in Beirut in the late Seventies, I had asked him about Arafat. "I went to a meeting he held in Beirut the other day," he said. "And Arafat stood there and was questioned about a future Palestinian state, and all he could say was that 'You must ask every Palestinian child this question.' Everyone clapped. But what did he mean? What on earth was he talking about? It was rhetoric. But it meant nothing."
After Arafat went along with the Oslo accords, Said was the first - rightly - to attack him. Arafat had never seen a Jewish settlement in the occupied territories, he said. There wasn't a single Palestinian lawyer present during the Oslo negotiations. Said was immediately condemned - all of us who said that Oslo would be a catastrophic failure were - as "anti-peace" and, by vicious extension, "pro-terrorist".
Said would weary of the need to repeat the Palestinian story, the importance of denouncing the old lies - one of them, which especially enraged him, was the myth that Arab radio stations had called upon the Palestinian Arabs of 1948 to abandon their homes in the new Israeli state - but he would repeat, over and over again, the importance of re-telling the tale of Palestinian tragedy.
He was abused by anonymous callers, his office was visited by a fire-bomber, and he was libelled many times by Jewish Americans who hated that he, a professor of literature at Columbia University, could so eloquently and vigorously defend his occupied people.
An attempt was made, in his dying days, to deprive him of his academic job by some cruel supporters of Israel who claimed - the same old, mendacious slur - that he was an anti-Semite. Columbia, in a long but slightly ambivalent statement, defended him. When the Jewish head of Harvard expressed his concern about the rise of "anti-Semitism" in the United States - by those who dared to criticise Israel - Said wrote scathingly that a Jewish academic who was head of Harvard "complains about anti-Semitism!"
As his health declined, he was invited to give a lecture in northern England. I can still hear the lady who organised it complaining that he insisted on flying business class. But why not? Was a critically ill man, fighting for his life and his people, not allowed some comfort across the Atlantic? His friendship with the brilliant Barenboim - and their joint support for an Arab-Israeli orchestra that only last month played in Morocco - was proof of his human decency. When Barenboim was refused permission to play in Ramallah, Said rearranged his concert - much to the fury of the Sharon government, for which Said had only contempt.
The last time I saw him, he was exalted with happiness at the marriage of his son to a beautiful young woman. The time I saw him before, he had been moved to infuriation by the failure of Palestinians in Boston to arrange his slides to a lecture on the "right of return" of Palestinians to Palestine in the right order. Like all serious academics, he wanted accuracy. All the greater was his fury when one of his enemies claimed that he was never a true refugee from Palestine because he was in Cairo at the time of the Palestinian dispossession.
He had no truck with sloppy journalism - take a look at Covering Islam, on the reporting of the Iranian revolution - and he had even less patience with American television anchors. "When I went on air," he told me once, "the Israeli consul in New York said I was a terrorist and wanted to kill him. And what did the anchorwoman say to me? 'Mr Said, why do you want to kill the Israeli consul?' How do you reply to such garbage?"
Edward was a rare bird. He was both an icon and an iconoclast.
'Has the peace rhetoric been a gigantic fraud?'
Edited extract from an article by Edward Said, first printed in the 'London Review of Books' on 14 December 2000:
WHAT OF this vaunted peace process? What has it achieved and why, if indeed it was a peace process, has the miserable condition of the Palestinians and the loss of life become so much worse than before the Oslo Accords were signed in September 1993? And what does it mean to speak of peace if Israeli troops and settlements are still present in such large numbers? Again, according to the Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 110,000 Jews lived in illegal settlements in Gaza and the West Bank before Oslo; the number has since increased to 195,000, a figure that doesn't include those Jews who have taken up residence in Arab East Jerusalem. Has the world been deluded or has the rhetoric of "peace" been in essence a gigantic fraud?
Some of the answers to these questions lie buried in reams of documents signed by the two parties, unread except by the small handful of people who negotiated them. Others are simply ignored by the media and the governments whose job, it now appears, was to press on with disastrous information, investment and enforcement policies, regardless of the horrors taking place on the ground. A few people, myself included, have tried to chronicle what has been going on, from the initial Palestinian surrender at Oslo until the present, but in comparison with the mainstream media and governments, not to mention the status reports and recommendations circulated by huge funding agencies like the World Bank, the European Union and many private foundations - notably the Ford Foundation - who have played along with the deception, our voices have had a negligible effect except, sadly, as prophecy.
For more information:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/
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We mourn with greatest sadness the death today of Professor Edward W. Said. We extend our deepest sympathy and condolences to Edward Said's family, and we share our profound sense of loss with the many and diverse communities that loved and respected him.
Professor Said maintained his relentless engagement with people, culture, and politics all over the world, even in the last weeks of his decade-long struggle against illness.
Said is known throughout the world as a public intellectual, and there are few fields of intellectual endeavor that have been untouched by his contributions. A prolific and path-breaking scholar whose contributions helped transform both the humanities and the social sciences, Said's impact and engagement went far beyond the academy. Said was also an activist who worked courageously for justice, and fearlessly spoke truth to power.
When images and narratives of the Palestinian struggle were dominated by misrepresentations, caricatures and hateful stereotypes, Said was for years often the sole and most effective advocate for bringing truth and light to the Palestinian cause in the United States. Despite being the target of relentless and vicious personal attacks, Said never abandoned a vision of peace between Israelis and Palestinians based on deep mutual recognition of the other's histories and narratives, and a reconciliation leading to complete equality. He taught and inspired a new generation of activists to speak with clarity and always search for truth no matter who it might offend.
Throughout the 1990s, Said's newspaper columns provided a constant critique of the depradations, falsehoods and failures of the Oslo "peace process" that led only to the further alienation of Palestinians from their land and a betrayal of the vision of reconciliation and justice for which he strived. Said was among the first to understand and articulate how this process, premised on preserving the vast power imbalances and injustices between Israelis and Palestinians, would lead to the present disaster, and he never shirked from criticizing the Palestinian leaders who contributed to this state of affairs.
Said's journey back to his birthplace in Palestine in the early 1990s, after decades of exile, helped many Palestinians to come to terms with their own experience of exile and dispossession and encouraged many Palestinians to embark on their own journeys home. Said's books, among them "The Question of Palestine," "After the Last Sky," "The Politics of Dispossession," and the memoir of his youth, "Out of Place," remain seminal works which both personalize and humanize the Palestinian predicament and place it in political context. In his memoir, he revealed the depth of his courage and honesty by facing himself, his past, and his society with a critical eye.
Despite the worsening situation in Palestine, Said never succumbed to despair. Until the very end of his life, he was actively engaged in the Palestinian National Initiative, a movement to mobilize the energy of the entire population towards a non-violent struggle for peace and liberation.
Yet the greatest significance of Said's contribution is not only that he was an outstanding advocate for justice and peace in Palestine, but also that he consistently located this cause within a much greater struggle for a truly universal and humanist vision, entailing a firm rejection of ethno-nationalism and religious fanaticism. He taught by eloquent example that being faithful to a cause did not require blind loyalty to leaders or symbols, but rather necessitated self-criticism and debate. This fact meant that his engagement with the Arab world, and his fierce criticism of its status quo, was as important as his work communicating with people in the West.
Edward Said was a fountain of humanity, compassion, intellectual restlessness and creativity. At a time when the crude calculus of raw power and fanaticism threatens to swamp global discourse, his irreplaceable voice never needed to be heard more.
The most fitting tribute to Professor Said's life and work is to struggle with increased commitment for the vision of justice and humanity that inspired all of his efforts.
Ali Abunimah
Arjan El Fassed
Laurie King-Irani
Nigel Parry
for The Electronic Intifada
Professor Said maintained his relentless engagement with people, culture, and politics all over the world, even in the last weeks of his decade-long struggle against illness.
Said is known throughout the world as a public intellectual, and there are few fields of intellectual endeavor that have been untouched by his contributions. A prolific and path-breaking scholar whose contributions helped transform both the humanities and the social sciences, Said's impact and engagement went far beyond the academy. Said was also an activist who worked courageously for justice, and fearlessly spoke truth to power.
When images and narratives of the Palestinian struggle were dominated by misrepresentations, caricatures and hateful stereotypes, Said was for years often the sole and most effective advocate for bringing truth and light to the Palestinian cause in the United States. Despite being the target of relentless and vicious personal attacks, Said never abandoned a vision of peace between Israelis and Palestinians based on deep mutual recognition of the other's histories and narratives, and a reconciliation leading to complete equality. He taught and inspired a new generation of activists to speak with clarity and always search for truth no matter who it might offend.
Throughout the 1990s, Said's newspaper columns provided a constant critique of the depradations, falsehoods and failures of the Oslo "peace process" that led only to the further alienation of Palestinians from their land and a betrayal of the vision of reconciliation and justice for which he strived. Said was among the first to understand and articulate how this process, premised on preserving the vast power imbalances and injustices between Israelis and Palestinians, would lead to the present disaster, and he never shirked from criticizing the Palestinian leaders who contributed to this state of affairs.
Said's journey back to his birthplace in Palestine in the early 1990s, after decades of exile, helped many Palestinians to come to terms with their own experience of exile and dispossession and encouraged many Palestinians to embark on their own journeys home. Said's books, among them "The Question of Palestine," "After the Last Sky," "The Politics of Dispossession," and the memoir of his youth, "Out of Place," remain seminal works which both personalize and humanize the Palestinian predicament and place it in political context. In his memoir, he revealed the depth of his courage and honesty by facing himself, his past, and his society with a critical eye.
Despite the worsening situation in Palestine, Said never succumbed to despair. Until the very end of his life, he was actively engaged in the Palestinian National Initiative, a movement to mobilize the energy of the entire population towards a non-violent struggle for peace and liberation.
Yet the greatest significance of Said's contribution is not only that he was an outstanding advocate for justice and peace in Palestine, but also that he consistently located this cause within a much greater struggle for a truly universal and humanist vision, entailing a firm rejection of ethno-nationalism and religious fanaticism. He taught by eloquent example that being faithful to a cause did not require blind loyalty to leaders or symbols, but rather necessitated self-criticism and debate. This fact meant that his engagement with the Arab world, and his fierce criticism of its status quo, was as important as his work communicating with people in the West.
Edward Said was a fountain of humanity, compassion, intellectual restlessness and creativity. At a time when the crude calculus of raw power and fanaticism threatens to swamp global discourse, his irreplaceable voice never needed to be heard more.
The most fitting tribute to Professor Said's life and work is to struggle with increased commitment for the vision of justice and humanity that inspired all of his efforts.
Ali Abunimah
Arjan El Fassed
Laurie King-Irani
Nigel Parry
for The Electronic Intifada
For more information:
http://www.electronicintifada.net/v2/artic...
VIEW Webcast:
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/events/replay.html?event_id=46
Running Time: 1 hour, 39 minutes
Professor Edward Said: "Memory, Inequality and Power: Palestine and the Universality of Human Rights"
This lecture was held at 5:30 p.m., Wednesday, February 19, in Zellerbach Auditorium.
Said, author of the groundbreaking work "Orientalism" and a professor of English and Comparative Literature at Columbia University, is one of the most prominent literary and cultural critics in the United States. His writings about the Middle East and its relationship to the West have had a major influence on both scholarship and public opinion.
This event was sponsored by the Center for Middle Eastern Studies, and co-sponsored by the Office of the Chancellor.
Center for Middle Eastern Studies
Middle Eastern Studies has been taught at Berkeley since 1894, and Berkeley today is one of thirteen national resource centers designated by the United States Department of Education for the study of the Middle East. The University has 50 Middle East specialist faculty and academic staff and over 150 graduate students, with more than 100 courses relating to the Middle East offered in 18 departments and 6 professional schools, accounting for about 4,000 annual enrollments.
Sponsor website: http://www.ias.berkeley.edu/cmes/
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/events/replay.html?event_id=46
Running Time: 1 hour, 39 minutes
Professor Edward Said: "Memory, Inequality and Power: Palestine and the Universality of Human Rights"
This lecture was held at 5:30 p.m., Wednesday, February 19, in Zellerbach Auditorium.
Said, author of the groundbreaking work "Orientalism" and a professor of English and Comparative Literature at Columbia University, is one of the most prominent literary and cultural critics in the United States. His writings about the Middle East and its relationship to the West have had a major influence on both scholarship and public opinion.
This event was sponsored by the Center for Middle Eastern Studies, and co-sponsored by the Office of the Chancellor.
Center for Middle Eastern Studies
Middle Eastern Studies has been taught at Berkeley since 1894, and Berkeley today is one of thirteen national resource centers designated by the United States Department of Education for the study of the Middle East. The University has 50 Middle East specialist faculty and academic staff and over 150 graduate students, with more than 100 courses relating to the Middle East offered in 18 departments and 6 professional schools, accounting for about 4,000 annual enrollments.
Sponsor website: http://www.ias.berkeley.edu/cmes/
For more information:
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/events/details...
Fisk says, 110,000 Jews lived in illegal settlements in Gaza and the West Bank before Oslo; the number has since increased to 195,000, a figure that doesn't include those Jews who have taken up residence in Arab East Jerusalem. Has the world been deluded or has the rhetoric of "peace" been in essence a gigantic fraud?
I would ask Mr Fisk. How many Palestinians live in Israel. 1.3 million. Does he also want them to leave.
Typical Fisk hypocrisy. I wonder if Mr Fisk will tell people about this racist billboard in Lebanon.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=7349
http://www.jamesmoore.org/israel4.htm
I would ask Mr Fisk. How many Palestinians live in Israel. 1.3 million. Does he also want them to leave.
Typical Fisk hypocrisy. I wonder if Mr Fisk will tell people about this racist billboard in Lebanon.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=7349
http://www.jamesmoore.org/israel4.htm
... that a memoriam to Professor Said by Robert Fisk can cause Joe to come on the Board and ignore the death of Edward Said but go on about Arabs in Israel, etc., and Robert Fisk's hypocrisy, etc., etc.
There is a bloody time and place for everything, Joe. This is not the place for sprouting off about your favourite topic - Israel.
We are trying to quietly remember Edward Said, his life, his works, his intelligence. Do you mind? Go to one of the many threads about Israel here on the Board and express your annoyance.
Let those of us who care about the dead have our quiet time, hmm?
There is a bloody time and place for everything, Joe. This is not the place for sprouting off about your favourite topic - Israel.
We are trying to quietly remember Edward Said, his life, his works, his intelligence. Do you mind? Go to one of the many threads about Israel here on the Board and express your annoyance.
Let those of us who care about the dead have our quiet time, hmm?
Shut up.
Angie knows what's best, and this is her thread, so everyone better do what she says. Otherwise, Mother Angie will be compelled to sternly lecture you on what is appropriate board behavior and what is not. Ok?
Do us all a favour and shut the hell up yourself. It would be interesting for all of us to know what the hell you're "concerned about". I can just imagine.
My best friends don't behave in this fashion. So save your breath.
It would have been nice, though, if just for once, JUST FOR ONCE, the damn "conflict" isn't dragged into everything and everywhere. I foolishly had assumed there might be a discussion on some of Edward Said's works, or his life, or his music. I really should have known better.
It would have been nice, though, if just for once, JUST FOR ONCE, the damn "conflict" isn't dragged into everything and everywhere. I foolishly had assumed there might be a discussion on some of Edward Said's works, or his life, or his music. I really should have known better.
I am sorry. I forgot to say "please".
So, please shut the hell up. And do it now. Thanks!
So, please shut the hell up. And do it now. Thanks!
What upsets me most is that with Arafat under siege I am unable to fly to ramallah to perform oral sex on him.
Good heavens it's upsetting!
Good heavens it's upsetting!
I am sorry. I forgot to say "please".
So, please shut the hell up. And do it now. Thanks!
So, please shut the hell up. And do it now. Thanks!
I DID NOT write that disgusting post above entitled "ok".
Angie, that you could use a thread dedicated to a dsicussion of a truly great man to talk about your absurd and immoral sexual fantasies is, well, disappointing.
Maybe you're the bloody forger here. If you are, you should be damn well ashamed. If you're not, you should be ashamed anyway for coughing up such a piece of garbage as "angie's only friend", and the rest of your crap. Why don't you look up the word "friend" sometime?
angie
too bad you're ambushed by such illiterate boneheads.
anyway, of course you're right. a thread like this is hardly the place to debate the Israeli / Palestinian issue. nevertheless, I must say that to compare Palestinians living in Israel with the "settlers" in the West Bank is beyond silly. Obviously the intention is to incorporate into Israel the lands where the illegal occupiers live. It is not about the composition of ethnicity. And the lame forged comment about oral sex was a real exhibition of class.
and before one of you idiots respond, i'll supply your witty rejoinder: oh just shut up!
too bad you're ambushed by such illiterate boneheads.
anyway, of course you're right. a thread like this is hardly the place to debate the Israeli / Palestinian issue. nevertheless, I must say that to compare Palestinians living in Israel with the "settlers" in the West Bank is beyond silly. Obviously the intention is to incorporate into Israel the lands where the illegal occupiers live. It is not about the composition of ethnicity. And the lame forged comment about oral sex was a real exhibition of class.
and before one of you idiots respond, i'll supply your witty rejoinder: oh just shut up!
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