Publish to Newswire
Add an EventFrom the Open-Publishing Calendar
From the Open-Publishing Newswire
Indybay Feature
Remembering Gypsy
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<title>All Events are posted under the</title>
</head>
<body>
<font FACE="Arial"><i>
<font FACE="Arial" COLOR="#000080">
<font FACE="Arial" SIZE="4" COLOR="#ff6600"><b>
<p ALIGN="CENTER">In loving memory of David Nathan “Gypsy” Chain</b>, <b>a
Houston activist who was killed on September 17,1998, when a tree was felled by
a MAXXAM logger while he was documenting illegal logging on their land.</b></p>
<p ALIGN="CENTER"><b>
http://www.headwatersforest.org/david.chain/</b></p>
</font>
</font>
</i>
<b><font FACE="Arial" SIZE="4">
</font></b><font FACE="Arial" COLOR="#008000">
</font><font FACE="Arial" COLOR="#000080">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<title>All Events are posted under the</title>
</head>
<body>
<font FACE="Arial"><i>
<font FACE="Arial" COLOR="#000080">
<font FACE="Arial" SIZE="4" COLOR="#ff6600"><b>
<p ALIGN="CENTER">In loving memory of David Nathan “Gypsy” Chain</b>, <b>a
Houston activist who was killed on September 17,1998, when a tree was felled by
a MAXXAM logger while he was documenting illegal logging on their land.</b></p>
<p ALIGN="CENTER"><b>
http://www.headwatersforest.org/david.chain/</b></p>
</font>
</font>
</i>
<b><font FACE="Arial" SIZE="4">
</font></b><font FACE="Arial" COLOR="#008000">
</font><font FACE="Arial" COLOR="#000080">
Meditation at MAXXAM: Remembering Gypsy
Monday, September 15, 4:30-6 pm
Join us as we come together to remember and reflect on Gypsy, a Houston activist who was killed this week 5 years ago by a MAXXAM faller. Please bring poems, songs, stories and thoughts to commemorate his spirit. This event will be held on the lawn in front of MAXXAM’s headquarters, 5847 San Felipe. If you can't make it in person, please meditate with us in spirit, wherever you are.
Open Journal: Remembering Gypsy-
Listen live from the web www.KPFT.org
Wednesday, September 17, 12pm-1pm
KPFT 90.1 FM-
September 17, 1998, Houston activist David Nathan “Gypsy” Chain was killed when a tree was felled by a MAXXAM logger while activists were documenting illegal logging on MAXXAM land near Grizzly Creek State Park. Today, we honor his spirit and celebrate his life, for he has become an inspirational legend. Join Rhea Green and Melissa (SACRED) as well as David “Gypsy’s” mother, Cindy Allsbrooks, who has since her sons death started the Forest Peace Alliance. We will also have Shunka, a forest defender from California who witnessed David’s death, and Jeremy, an old friend/ roommate who will be playing with his band, Dubtex, at the benefit show "Gypsy's Legacy Rocks on" Friday, Sept 26.
We will be taking callers (713-526-5738)
Freedom Friday at MAXXAM
Fridays, September 19, 4:30-6 pm
Houston corporation MAXXAM is mowing down our ancient Redwood forest. We must NOT allow MAXXAM to take away our children’s future, demolish the habitat for countless creatures, or ruin the quality of life for Humboldt County citizens.
Be a part of Freedom Fridays as we fight for the freedom of the earth that is being held captive by these corporate raiders.
Freedom Fridays are held at MAXXAM headquarters, 5847 San Felipe, and include posters, candlelight vigils, meditation, props, and street theater. Bring your drum(s), guitarre, musical instruments, and anything else you can think of for a music circle. For more information or to help organize, call 713-858-0074 or visit www.SacredRedwood.org.
Memorial Service for Gypsy at his gravesite
Saturday, September 20- moved to Saturday September 27th, 2-4 pm
All Events are posted under the “Upcoming Events” portion of our website, and also on the “calendars“ section. Be sure to check for updates- www.SacredRedwood.org.
*Note: We are officially running as an organization now! All check/ money orders can be made payable to SACRED.
For more information:
http://www.SacredRedwood.org
Add Your Comments
Comments
(Hide Comments)
personaly I am looking forward to hearing the guitarre's playing in the moonie light.
personaly I am looking forward to hearing the guitarre's playing in the moonie light.
So if I go out and smoke a big fattie, then go stand in the freeway and get hit by a car, that would be the cars fault ? You would think that the fact he was stoned out of his gourd (med exam. report) and playing your little game of cat and mouse is alright. Well once in a while the cat wins. Besides I thought he was supposed to be sitting in a tree? I went to one of your tree sits (freshwater) and could not belive what I saw. How are you going to get the public behind you when all I saw was drunk, dirty, stoned out, foul mouthed forest fairies with trash and garbage as far as I could see. My kids asked me if this is what the loggers do and I had to tell them no, these are the forest defenders. Let me tell you , you just lost two future and to present supporters.
ya , so we smoke a few so what
so we party in tha wouds what dous that prove that we have a good time widh mother natore is that so bad?
and so if we leave a little somthing it all goes back into mother earth. so we are cool man. what do you want from us man the tree cutters have us freakin and if we take a dew days or so to blow off some bad karma well thats wat we need. downer man..
so we party in tha wouds what dous that prove that we have a good time widh mother natore is that so bad?
and so if we leave a little somthing it all goes back into mother earth. so we are cool man. what do you want from us man the tree cutters have us freakin and if we take a dew days or so to blow off some bad karma well thats wat we need. downer man..
How disrespectful to post such idiocracies on a message that honors a beautiful person's life.
How ironic that this is the same argument word for word used by pacific lumber and maxxam's paid goonies.
What about the trashed out forest they leave behind every single day? What about the logging roads barreling through and the gas emitting machines and choppers used to log the forest. What about the debris of cut branches and fallen trees left unceremoniously around here? what about the vandalizing graffiti marked on these ancient trees for no reason (using earth UN friendly aerosoal might i add)... what about.... and on and on until you have no excuse.
maxxam/ Pacific Lumber, you are ripping out the lungs of the planet and endangering countless species every day. There is nothing you can possibly say to lessen the life of one single forest defender in their fight to save the earth from your destruction.
Rest in peace Gypsy, as we celebrate your life. And peace be with all forest defenders.
How ironic that this is the same argument word for word used by pacific lumber and maxxam's paid goonies.
What about the trashed out forest they leave behind every single day? What about the logging roads barreling through and the gas emitting machines and choppers used to log the forest. What about the debris of cut branches and fallen trees left unceremoniously around here? what about the vandalizing graffiti marked on these ancient trees for no reason (using earth UN friendly aerosoal might i add)... what about.... and on and on until you have no excuse.
maxxam/ Pacific Lumber, you are ripping out the lungs of the planet and endangering countless species every day. There is nothing you can possibly say to lessen the life of one single forest defender in their fight to save the earth from your destruction.
Rest in peace Gypsy, as we celebrate your life. And peace be with all forest defenders.
Let's see if I can help to straighten you out a little.
<<confused said: So if I go out and smoke a big fattie, then go stand in the freeway and get hit by a car, that would be the cars fault?>>
No,my friend, that would be the driver's fault. People aren't supposed to stand in the middle of the freeway, but that doesn't mean you're off the hook if you hit them. If you don't believe me, ask the CHP. I believe the charge is called "failure to avoid a collision," or something like that.
And you definitely wouldn't be off the hook if you were videotaped making a threat against their life about an hour beforehand. (Unless you are a logger and the pedestrian is a forest protester and the incident takes place in the good-old-boy world of Humboldt County law enforcement -- and I wouldn't count on that anymore either, as the good-old-boy network is crumbling fast!)
In Gypsy's case, the protesters aren't saying that the tree (analogous to the car in your example) is responsible. They are saying that the logger cutting the tree (analogous to the driver in your example) is responsible for felling the tree and thereby killing Gypsy. (I know this seems obvious, but as you said, you are rather confused, so I'm doing my best to make it clear for you).
Now the fact that Gypsy was supposedly 'stoned,' and the fact that he 'wasn't supposed to be there' are both irrelevant in the morality of the situation.
First of all, the last time I checked the legal penalty for possession of marijuana was NOT the death penalty (despite what a few fascists might like!), nor are infantile, enraged loggers supposed to act as judge, jury and executioner.
How curious the way that you timber lackeys and feds make a big deal about breaking the law when it involves, let's say, trespassing -- yet you're so entirely cavalier about the prospects for vigilante justice in the obviously more serious case of murder.
Whattabunchahypocrites!
Meanwhile, MAXXSCAM/PL was,as they are still to this day, willfully breaking the timber practice and environmental laws. They weren't 'doing what they were supposed to do' either, it turns out.
And yet none of these facts -- Gypsy's alleged buzz, his presence on MAXXSCAM/PL-claimed land, MAXXSCAM's own lawbreaking -- none of these really determine the right and wrong of the situation. That responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the logger who felled the tree on Gypsy.
This logger knew that a group of protesters -- other human beings -- were in the area. He was caught on videotape making death threats against the protesters less than an hour before he killed Gypsy (see the documentary film'Treesit') and was shouting back and forth with them at the time of the incident. Given this knowledge, he certainly 'wasn't supposed to' endanger their lives by continuing to fell trees, especially felling the trees toward the protesters.
And then somelike to claim that the tree just "accidentally" fell toward Gypsy when it was cut, saying "hah, how could you intentionally fell a tree on someone?" This argument may appeal to those who have little knowledge of this trade. But according to longtime tree-fellers, the tree virtually always falls where it is supposed to fall, right smack into the bed, at least 99-point-something percent of the time. In fact this precision is a point of pride among tree-fellers.
So the odds are steeply stacked aginst the "oops" argument, though, like in any killing, the question of intent can never be settled with certainly outside of the killer's own mind (and maybe not even there in this case?)
What responsibility does Gypsy bear in his own death? Only the same measure of responsibility that we would assign to any other peaceful protester who knows that he or she may be slain for their beliefs and their non-violent actions of protest.
Certainly Gypsy was risking his life by taking part in this protest -- just like Martin Luther King Jr. and the civil right protesters of the desegregation era, just like Ghandi and the millions who protested British Colonial rule in India, just like so many others who have non-violently protested the wrongs they saw in the world.
But just because someone has knowingly risked their own death in a peaceful protest, this is no justification for callously taking the life that has peacefully been offered.
In Gypsy's case, just as in the cases of slain civil rights protesters, the oppressors and their lackeys bear the blame whenever the blood of peaceful protesters is shed.
<<confused said: Besides I thought he was supposed to be sitting in a tree?>>
Who told you that? And what possible relevance would that have? If he was "supposed to be sitting in a tree" and wasn't, does that make his killing more palatable to you? Or was that perhaps just a little sneer, and a little smear, to rub it in a little for his family and friends, who lost someone dear to them and have done nothing to deserve your vitriol?
<<confused said: I went to one of your tree sits (freshwater) and could not belive what I saw. How are you going to get the public behind you when all I saw was drunk, dirty, stoned out, foul mouthed forest fairies with trash and garbage as far as I could see. My kids asked me if this is what the loggers do and I had to tell them no, these are the forest defenders. Let me tell you , you just lost two future and to present supporters.>>
Not much needs to be said in response to this little low-credibility rant (in which the author,unbelievably, now claims to be a present supporter!), except that the treesitters you saw in Freshwater may have been a bit "dirty" (it's not that easy to keep real clean living in a tree), but the garbage "strewn around" is a result of MAXXSCAM/Horrific Plunder's own climbers, who have repeatedly raided the treesits there, throwing gear and supplies down to the ground. This does create quite a mess, so you're welcome join in and help with the clean-up, seeing as how you and the kids are "present supporters," and seeing as how you're so concerned about the superficial appearance of the treesit area!
Boy,it's funny the way that you were so busy nit-picking the treesitters (inaccurately as it turns out) that you somehow missed the huge MAXXSCAM/PL clearcuts on these steep slopes that are scarring the land, destroying vital habitat for endangered species, and clogging Freshwater Creek with sediment (which in turn is contributing to flooding of nearby homes and the near-extinction of local salmon populations).
But if you did notice any of this, and your kids asked you about it, perhaps you would find some way to blame all of this devastation on the treesitters. Right?
Wow, keeping yourself and your kids so thoroughly confused must be awful hard work , what with the truth staring you in the face every day. Well, good luck.
<<confused said: So if I go out and smoke a big fattie, then go stand in the freeway and get hit by a car, that would be the cars fault?>>
No,my friend, that would be the driver's fault. People aren't supposed to stand in the middle of the freeway, but that doesn't mean you're off the hook if you hit them. If you don't believe me, ask the CHP. I believe the charge is called "failure to avoid a collision," or something like that.
And you definitely wouldn't be off the hook if you were videotaped making a threat against their life about an hour beforehand. (Unless you are a logger and the pedestrian is a forest protester and the incident takes place in the good-old-boy world of Humboldt County law enforcement -- and I wouldn't count on that anymore either, as the good-old-boy network is crumbling fast!)
In Gypsy's case, the protesters aren't saying that the tree (analogous to the car in your example) is responsible. They are saying that the logger cutting the tree (analogous to the driver in your example) is responsible for felling the tree and thereby killing Gypsy. (I know this seems obvious, but as you said, you are rather confused, so I'm doing my best to make it clear for you).
Now the fact that Gypsy was supposedly 'stoned,' and the fact that he 'wasn't supposed to be there' are both irrelevant in the morality of the situation.
First of all, the last time I checked the legal penalty for possession of marijuana was NOT the death penalty (despite what a few fascists might like!), nor are infantile, enraged loggers supposed to act as judge, jury and executioner.
How curious the way that you timber lackeys and feds make a big deal about breaking the law when it involves, let's say, trespassing -- yet you're so entirely cavalier about the prospects for vigilante justice in the obviously more serious case of murder.
Whattabunchahypocrites!
Meanwhile, MAXXSCAM/PL was,as they are still to this day, willfully breaking the timber practice and environmental laws. They weren't 'doing what they were supposed to do' either, it turns out.
And yet none of these facts -- Gypsy's alleged buzz, his presence on MAXXSCAM/PL-claimed land, MAXXSCAM's own lawbreaking -- none of these really determine the right and wrong of the situation. That responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the logger who felled the tree on Gypsy.
This logger knew that a group of protesters -- other human beings -- were in the area. He was caught on videotape making death threats against the protesters less than an hour before he killed Gypsy (see the documentary film'Treesit') and was shouting back and forth with them at the time of the incident. Given this knowledge, he certainly 'wasn't supposed to' endanger their lives by continuing to fell trees, especially felling the trees toward the protesters.
And then somelike to claim that the tree just "accidentally" fell toward Gypsy when it was cut, saying "hah, how could you intentionally fell a tree on someone?" This argument may appeal to those who have little knowledge of this trade. But according to longtime tree-fellers, the tree virtually always falls where it is supposed to fall, right smack into the bed, at least 99-point-something percent of the time. In fact this precision is a point of pride among tree-fellers.
So the odds are steeply stacked aginst the "oops" argument, though, like in any killing, the question of intent can never be settled with certainly outside of the killer's own mind (and maybe not even there in this case?)
What responsibility does Gypsy bear in his own death? Only the same measure of responsibility that we would assign to any other peaceful protester who knows that he or she may be slain for their beliefs and their non-violent actions of protest.
Certainly Gypsy was risking his life by taking part in this protest -- just like Martin Luther King Jr. and the civil right protesters of the desegregation era, just like Ghandi and the millions who protested British Colonial rule in India, just like so many others who have non-violently protested the wrongs they saw in the world.
But just because someone has knowingly risked their own death in a peaceful protest, this is no justification for callously taking the life that has peacefully been offered.
In Gypsy's case, just as in the cases of slain civil rights protesters, the oppressors and their lackeys bear the blame whenever the blood of peaceful protesters is shed.
<<confused said: Besides I thought he was supposed to be sitting in a tree?>>
Who told you that? And what possible relevance would that have? If he was "supposed to be sitting in a tree" and wasn't, does that make his killing more palatable to you? Or was that perhaps just a little sneer, and a little smear, to rub it in a little for his family and friends, who lost someone dear to them and have done nothing to deserve your vitriol?
<<confused said: I went to one of your tree sits (freshwater) and could not belive what I saw. How are you going to get the public behind you when all I saw was drunk, dirty, stoned out, foul mouthed forest fairies with trash and garbage as far as I could see. My kids asked me if this is what the loggers do and I had to tell them no, these are the forest defenders. Let me tell you , you just lost two future and to present supporters.>>
Not much needs to be said in response to this little low-credibility rant (in which the author,unbelievably, now claims to be a present supporter!), except that the treesitters you saw in Freshwater may have been a bit "dirty" (it's not that easy to keep real clean living in a tree), but the garbage "strewn around" is a result of MAXXSCAM/Horrific Plunder's own climbers, who have repeatedly raided the treesits there, throwing gear and supplies down to the ground. This does create quite a mess, so you're welcome join in and help with the clean-up, seeing as how you and the kids are "present supporters," and seeing as how you're so concerned about the superficial appearance of the treesit area!
Boy,it's funny the way that you were so busy nit-picking the treesitters (inaccurately as it turns out) that you somehow missed the huge MAXXSCAM/PL clearcuts on these steep slopes that are scarring the land, destroying vital habitat for endangered species, and clogging Freshwater Creek with sediment (which in turn is contributing to flooding of nearby homes and the near-extinction of local salmon populations).
But if you did notice any of this, and your kids asked you about it, perhaps you would find some way to blame all of this devastation on the treesitters. Right?
Wow, keeping yourself and your kids so thoroughly confused must be awful hard work , what with the truth staring you in the face every day. Well, good luck.
No,my friend, that would be the driver's fault. People aren't supposed to stand in the middle of the freeway, but that doesn't mean you're off the hook if you hit them. If you don't believe me, ask the CHP. I believe the charge is called "failure to avoid a LIBERAL MORON," or something like that.
THIS ONLY GOES TO SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE OF THE LAW. or the extent you will go to shift the blame from some one being stupid to anyone else as long as you don't take the blame
under your interpretation of the law every drunk driver on the road can file suit against anyone he/she/it crashes into "because" they failed to avoid the drunk on the high way!
I just take this as a glimpse of the backwards,mixed up world you have created for your self.
(a reduction in the use of recreational drugs might be in order)
THIS ONLY GOES TO SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE OF THE LAW. or the extent you will go to shift the blame from some one being stupid to anyone else as long as you don't take the blame
under your interpretation of the law every drunk driver on the road can file suit against anyone he/she/it crashes into "because" they failed to avoid the drunk on the high way!
I just take this as a glimpse of the backwards,mixed up world you have created for your self.
(a reduction in the use of recreational drugs might be in order)
And then somelike to claim that the tree just "accidentally" fell toward Gypsy when it was cut, saying "hah, how could you intentionally fell a tree on someone?" This argument may appeal to those who have little knowledge of this trade. But according to longtime tree-fellers, the tree virtually always falls where it is supposed to fall, right smack into the bed, at least 99-point-something percent of the time. In fact this precision is a point of pride among tree-fellers.
You too, appear to have little knowledge of this trade. Yes, the tree fell right where it was to fall. the direction of the tree is chosen by several factors; lean of the tree, best possible place to put it without shattering it, ect. Once this is chosen, and the face cut is made,the fallerer is, for the most part, is commited to putting the tree in that spot. David was not commited to staying there. Contrary to your belief, trees are not thrown. That tree took about ten minutes to fall. If he was where that tree fell, it's because he chose not to move. Or he thought that he was safe. Hanging out in a active timber site is dangerous and he had no clue as to what was going on.
You too, appear to have little knowledge of this trade. Yes, the tree fell right where it was to fall. the direction of the tree is chosen by several factors; lean of the tree, best possible place to put it without shattering it, ect. Once this is chosen, and the face cut is made,the fallerer is, for the most part, is commited to putting the tree in that spot. David was not commited to staying there. Contrary to your belief, trees are not thrown. That tree took about ten minutes to fall. If he was where that tree fell, it's because he chose not to move. Or he thought that he was safe. Hanging out in a active timber site is dangerous and he had no clue as to what was going on.
We are honoring the life and death of our beloved brother, David "Gypsy" Chain, who so bravely offered his life for the forest, the critters, the air, the water, and all the people. He was brave and did not run.
Today, MAXXAM/PL sunk to one of their lowest lows, and resumed logging operations on Gypsy Mountain, just east of the Aradia tree-sit. This means that they intend to connect the two clear-cuts that already exist on Gypsy Mountain, making the entire ridge-line one big clearcut, bound to slide into the Van Duzen River and onto Highway 36, and will most likely cause more flooding in Grizzly Creek State Park, which is immediately adjacent to the west of Gypsy Mountain.
The logging operations were shut down by forest activists from the Action Camp at Grizzly Creek, which is going on all this week, and MAXXAM/Pacific Lumber/Columbia Helicopters threatened to come back tomorrow, on the five-year anniversary of the murder of David "Gypsy" Chain by MAXXAM/PL, with police and the Climber Eric extraction team.
This is the epitome of disrespect, and I would say that MAXXAM/PL has just hit one of its lowest lows.
Please come to Humboldt County, California, and help to defend Gypsy Mountain. A candle-light vigil will be held in the pre-dawn hours of September 17th, 2003, at the base of Gypsy Mountain. All are welcome to attend, and we will need your help to defend Gypsy Mountain in the upcoming days, weeks, and months.
Finding the most wicked and disgusting things to do in this world is definitely a tactic of the masons...that's how the wicked ones pull on their demons, trying to harness the power of evil...it's true...hence the disgusting ceremonies of the skull & bones society, the masons, the bohemian club, etc...it's all based on getting more power through wickedness...the power of light is infinitely stronger, and the good witches always knew that...that's why they were burned by the wicked ones...we must continue to practice our ceremonies of light, because, in the Bigger Picture, the power of goodness is infinitely stronger than the power of evil.
Attacking Gypsy Mountain on the five-year anniversary of his death, and/or the day before, is a wicked act.
Come to Grizzly Creek State Park, 17 miles down highway 36, just south of Fortuna, and help to defend this sacred land.
We Love You, Gypsy!
With Love, Light, and Re-evolution,
Shunka Wakan
Today, MAXXAM/PL sunk to one of their lowest lows, and resumed logging operations on Gypsy Mountain, just east of the Aradia tree-sit. This means that they intend to connect the two clear-cuts that already exist on Gypsy Mountain, making the entire ridge-line one big clearcut, bound to slide into the Van Duzen River and onto Highway 36, and will most likely cause more flooding in Grizzly Creek State Park, which is immediately adjacent to the west of Gypsy Mountain.
The logging operations were shut down by forest activists from the Action Camp at Grizzly Creek, which is going on all this week, and MAXXAM/Pacific Lumber/Columbia Helicopters threatened to come back tomorrow, on the five-year anniversary of the murder of David "Gypsy" Chain by MAXXAM/PL, with police and the Climber Eric extraction team.
This is the epitome of disrespect, and I would say that MAXXAM/PL has just hit one of its lowest lows.
Please come to Humboldt County, California, and help to defend Gypsy Mountain. A candle-light vigil will be held in the pre-dawn hours of September 17th, 2003, at the base of Gypsy Mountain. All are welcome to attend, and we will need your help to defend Gypsy Mountain in the upcoming days, weeks, and months.
Finding the most wicked and disgusting things to do in this world is definitely a tactic of the masons...that's how the wicked ones pull on their demons, trying to harness the power of evil...it's true...hence the disgusting ceremonies of the skull & bones society, the masons, the bohemian club, etc...it's all based on getting more power through wickedness...the power of light is infinitely stronger, and the good witches always knew that...that's why they were burned by the wicked ones...we must continue to practice our ceremonies of light, because, in the Bigger Picture, the power of goodness is infinitely stronger than the power of evil.
Attacking Gypsy Mountain on the five-year anniversary of his death, and/or the day before, is a wicked act.
Come to Grizzly Creek State Park, 17 miles down highway 36, just south of Fortuna, and help to defend this sacred land.
We Love You, Gypsy!
With Love, Light, and Re-evolution,
Shunka Wakan
For more information:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/northcoastea...
why was his toxicology screen not disclosed...... what was on it?
Thanks for the post about the vigil. I did not have the privilage of knowing Gypsy before he was killed. I do, however feel very strongly about what happened. It was wrong. I will be there for sure to remember and honour his presence.
-SunFox
-SunFox
"We are honoring the life and death of our beloved brother, David "Gypsy" Chain, who so bravely offered his life for the forest, the critters, the air, the water, and all the people. He was brave and did not run. "
- Shunka
He offered his life? He did not run? Any I to understand that you agree that the tree took more than a couple of seconds to cut. And that David had the choise to move or leave the area?
- Shunka
He offered his life? He did not run? Any I to understand that you agree that the tree took more than a couple of seconds to cut. And that David had the choise to move or leave the area?
Um biggest, Please at least respect the dead? I mean you post here so regularly if you want any shred of respect from anyone or any credibility, trashing the deceases is a definite no no.
For more information:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:bk75...
Sun fox you ignorant slut. No really, I don't call you a dummy. And anyways, I was discussing Shunkas position. Not trashing the dead.
where you smoking a big fatty sunfox when you wrote your simple mided piece. You and your group get outraged when someone speaks about a person that committed suicide, but yet you and your group endorse spiking trees. When I include you, it is for the reason that I have never seen you speak out against it. Why don't you clear the air on this issue sunfox, How do you feel about spiking trees?
"...just because someone has knowingly risked their own death in a peaceful protest, this is no justification for callously taking the life that has peacefully been offered."
"In Gypsy's case, just as in the cases of slain civil rights protesters, the oppressors and their lackeys bear the blame whenever the blood of peaceful protesters is shed. "
Right On.
"In Gypsy's case, just as in the cases of slain civil rights protesters, the oppressors and their lackeys bear the blame whenever the blood of peaceful protesters is shed. "
Right On.
I went to the Arcata Eye web site to read up on our old buddy Shunka. I had a good laugh. To read all about him, do a Google search "Arcata eye Shunka". Another good spot to go to is tree-sit.org. They have a guest speaker on there (Night Elf), that gives a true example of the type of people that is within NCEF. If you think the Arcata eye was something, check out tree-sit.org.
Happy reading!
Happy reading!
what shunka didn't say......
the case is still open, the loggers where cleared of wrong doing.
but....this was a death under suspicious circumstances, as a matter of record.
the position of the body, the toxicology report, condition that the body was found in, leaves more questions than answers. and the only two "witnesses"
have gone on record with statements that where questionable at best.
this story is far from over
the case is still open, the loggers where cleared of wrong doing.
but....this was a death under suspicious circumstances, as a matter of record.
the position of the body, the toxicology report, condition that the body was found in, leaves more questions than answers. and the only two "witnesses"
have gone on record with statements that where questionable at best.
this story is far from over
What does extinction mean to u? The ending of a life and also the ending of an entire species. A human life was sacrificed so that other species of animals and/or plants may have a chance of avoiding their own extinction. Gypsy lost his life to the destructive process of MAXXAM/PL's corporate clear cut logging. He was active in the redwoods because he cared enough about the future and other species rights to live in thier habitat of old growth redwoods undisturbed..
The red tree vole, marbled murrelet, clouded salamander, old growth redwoods and many other species thank you Gypsy for your bravery and courage. Their chance at survival has improved because of your actions. You stood tall as a thousand year old redwood that day against corporate tyranny in the form of MAXXAM/PL..
'Nuff respect to Gypsy..
The red tree vole, marbled murrelet, clouded salamander, old growth redwoods and many other species thank you Gypsy for your bravery and courage. Their chance at survival has improved because of your actions. You stood tall as a thousand year old redwood that day against corporate tyranny in the form of MAXXAM/PL..
'Nuff respect to Gypsy..
It means I'm alive. If the dinosaurs hadn't gone extinct, our species would never have evolved.
Gypsy for your bravery and courage. Their chance at survival has improved because of your actions.
i had no idea that spending most days drong in the forrest could have such an effect on all the furry little creatures
i had no idea that spending most days drong in the forrest could have such an effect on all the furry little creatures
"It means I'm alive. If the dinosaurs hadn't gone extinct, our species would never have evolved."
This wave of human caused extinctions is occurring at a greater rate than any previous extinction. The dinasaur's went extinct because of a volcanic or meteor, the current extinctions are because of human corporate greed, not human need..
The redwoods being cut by MAXXAM/Pacific Lumber do not need to be cut down for anyone's survival. It is simply a luxury item for wealthy people to build decks, furniture and such. Other materials can be used that are far more sustainable than a thousand year redwood tree with it's own ecosystem in its branches..
Removing species of plants and animals from the ecosystem because of temporary financial gain is irresponsible and thoughtless. Once a species is removed, other species dependent on that one may also disappear, leading to a domino collapse of biodiversity that effects all life, including humans. Biodiversity is far more beneficial than monoculture. Corporations like MAXXAM and Monsanto are forcing monoculture in the form of post clearcut tree farms and gene modified monocrops. Similar to David "Gypsy" Chain, Korean farmer Lee Kyung-Hae lost his life so others may survive. Gypsy did not give up his life willingly, it was taken from him during his defense of the redwoods..
The rate of extinctions can be slowed if we as humans stand up to corporate greed and overconsumption. Taking nature and ecosystems for granted is not a healthy lifestyle for the future. Humans can live lightly on Earth by living in symbiosis with other plants and animals..
For those of you who attack Gypsy's spirit with cruel commentary, may you find peace..
Love and harmony will overcome hate and tyranny..
This wave of human caused extinctions is occurring at a greater rate than any previous extinction. The dinasaur's went extinct because of a volcanic or meteor, the current extinctions are because of human corporate greed, not human need..
The redwoods being cut by MAXXAM/Pacific Lumber do not need to be cut down for anyone's survival. It is simply a luxury item for wealthy people to build decks, furniture and such. Other materials can be used that are far more sustainable than a thousand year redwood tree with it's own ecosystem in its branches..
Removing species of plants and animals from the ecosystem because of temporary financial gain is irresponsible and thoughtless. Once a species is removed, other species dependent on that one may also disappear, leading to a domino collapse of biodiversity that effects all life, including humans. Biodiversity is far more beneficial than monoculture. Corporations like MAXXAM and Monsanto are forcing monoculture in the form of post clearcut tree farms and gene modified monocrops. Similar to David "Gypsy" Chain, Korean farmer Lee Kyung-Hae lost his life so others may survive. Gypsy did not give up his life willingly, it was taken from him during his defense of the redwoods..
The rate of extinctions can be slowed if we as humans stand up to corporate greed and overconsumption. Taking nature and ecosystems for granted is not a healthy lifestyle for the future. Humans can live lightly on Earth by living in symbiosis with other plants and animals..
For those of you who attack Gypsy's spirit with cruel commentary, may you find peace..
Love and harmony will overcome hate and tyranny..
Hey moth,
Can you tell me any names of species that have gone extinct in the last five years of this rapid human caused extinction? Haven't noticed much extinction in redwood country since the Grizzlies left.
Tell me, what animals have gone extinct due to Pacific Lumber? Or are you just running at the mouth without any facts?
Log on.
Can you tell me any names of species that have gone extinct in the last five years of this rapid human caused extinction? Haven't noticed much extinction in redwood country since the Grizzlies left.
Tell me, what animals have gone extinct due to Pacific Lumber? Or are you just running at the mouth without any facts?
Log on.
since when did mother nature turn into such a wilting flower ? the mother nature I know is a bitch goddess who is willing to share with you until you cross the line, then the hammer come down. Who are you to second guess her and presume to know more. How can you (a human animal thats been around a mere 250,000 years compared to say a mountian quail thats been around unchanged 10,000,000 or so) know what is in store for us. Let them log and mine and pillage, mom will know what to do. Can you say fire, flood, earthquake and volcanos. she is not helpless. But I am sure tired of hearing from the forest fairies about how bad things are and how if I (big ego) can sit in a tree I too can save it and I will be famous like butterfly. Then I too can be a big sellout.
like butterfly. Then I too can be a big sellout.
I keep waiting for her to go on Opera!
or come out with the new line of thigh master!
or- guest promo george forman's new portable grill!
I keep waiting for her to go on Opera!
or come out with the new line of thigh master!
or- guest promo george forman's new portable grill!
>occurring at a greater rate than any previous extinction.
-->"This is simply untrue. Even within the relatively narrow time frame of human existence, mass extinctions are not unknown. Look up “Pleistocene die off.” But in overall terms even the dinosaur die off pales next to the Persian mass extinction. "
No. The rate of extinctions is greater now than at any other time before. Even the extinctions of the Pliestocene to not compare to the number of species going extinct because of unneccesary human activites such as MAXXAM's fraudulent clear cutting of old growth redwoods..
Clear cutting leads to habitat fragmentation that causes inbreeding in species dependent on the old growths, such as marbled murrelets. Less old growths for nests means less marbled murrlets able to breed. Same for the red tree vole. Genetic isolation, or inbreeding is also found in pandas and tigers, other endangered animals that have a low populatiuon and therefore lower genetic diversity. Loss of genetic diversity further threatens the population by causing more weaknesses in the offspring of isolated individuals
-->"Extinction is part of Nature. Sooner or later, everything goes extinct. We, too, will go extinct. There is no way to avoid it. Pretending otherwise is foolish. "
Yes, this is somewhat true, however, the sooner of later part is vague at best. The time frame of a sudden extinction such as a volcanoe/meteor is more sudden, but there is a recovery period afterwards that allows the survivers to reproduce. The current human caused extinctions are occurring continuously and are not allowing for any recovery period. The clear cutting of old growth redwoods has not slowed and continues at a faster rate, as does pollution and overdevelopment. There are less and less old growths remaining, and the monoculture tree farms that spring up in the place of clear cuts are not adequate for habitat in most cases, they are not old growth..
>The rate of extinctions can be slowed if we as humans stand up to corporate greed and overconsumption.
-->"That’s highly questionable. The real problem is that there are too many people. This planet’s carrying capacity is beginning to strain. We *must* reduce our population. Since overpopulation is primarily the result of economics, we need to restructure the world’s economy so that people no longer have the economic motivation to over breed. For much of humanity, having a lot of children is the surest way to ensure getting enough to eat when you’re too old to work. This must end. "
Overconsumption is a far worse problem than overpopulation. I do agree that the economic factors that cause people to overbreed in situations of poverty needs to stop. This is tied into overconsumption by wealthy first world nations, the reason people are in poverty conditions is because of wealth hoarding in first world nations..
Overconsumption takes up far too many resources, beef, redwoods for furniture when there are many other sustainable materials that could be used instead. Redwood furniture IS a luxury item when recycled wood, hemp and many other fiber fast growing plants could be used instead..
NOTHING justifies clear cutting old growth redwoods..
..only Charles Hurwitz's fraudulent bankroll..
-->"This is simply untrue. Even within the relatively narrow time frame of human existence, mass extinctions are not unknown. Look up “Pleistocene die off.” But in overall terms even the dinosaur die off pales next to the Persian mass extinction. "
No. The rate of extinctions is greater now than at any other time before. Even the extinctions of the Pliestocene to not compare to the number of species going extinct because of unneccesary human activites such as MAXXAM's fraudulent clear cutting of old growth redwoods..
Clear cutting leads to habitat fragmentation that causes inbreeding in species dependent on the old growths, such as marbled murrelets. Less old growths for nests means less marbled murrlets able to breed. Same for the red tree vole. Genetic isolation, or inbreeding is also found in pandas and tigers, other endangered animals that have a low populatiuon and therefore lower genetic diversity. Loss of genetic diversity further threatens the population by causing more weaknesses in the offspring of isolated individuals
-->"Extinction is part of Nature. Sooner or later, everything goes extinct. We, too, will go extinct. There is no way to avoid it. Pretending otherwise is foolish. "
Yes, this is somewhat true, however, the sooner of later part is vague at best. The time frame of a sudden extinction such as a volcanoe/meteor is more sudden, but there is a recovery period afterwards that allows the survivers to reproduce. The current human caused extinctions are occurring continuously and are not allowing for any recovery period. The clear cutting of old growth redwoods has not slowed and continues at a faster rate, as does pollution and overdevelopment. There are less and less old growths remaining, and the monoculture tree farms that spring up in the place of clear cuts are not adequate for habitat in most cases, they are not old growth..
>The rate of extinctions can be slowed if we as humans stand up to corporate greed and overconsumption.
-->"That’s highly questionable. The real problem is that there are too many people. This planet’s carrying capacity is beginning to strain. We *must* reduce our population. Since overpopulation is primarily the result of economics, we need to restructure the world’s economy so that people no longer have the economic motivation to over breed. For much of humanity, having a lot of children is the surest way to ensure getting enough to eat when you’re too old to work. This must end. "
Overconsumption is a far worse problem than overpopulation. I do agree that the economic factors that cause people to overbreed in situations of poverty needs to stop. This is tied into overconsumption by wealthy first world nations, the reason people are in poverty conditions is because of wealth hoarding in first world nations..
Overconsumption takes up far too many resources, beef, redwoods for furniture when there are many other sustainable materials that could be used instead. Redwood furniture IS a luxury item when recycled wood, hemp and many other fiber fast growing plants could be used instead..
NOTHING justifies clear cutting old growth redwoods..
..only Charles Hurwitz's fraudulent bankroll..
The clear cutting of old growth redwoods has not slowed and continues at a faster rate,
this is at odds with previous statements of less than 1% of old growth redwoods left! how can you cut some thing that is not there! (you are flip flopping on the facts) and for another fact "redwoods for furniture"??
what have you been smoking? furniture is made of oak,walnut, maple,and pine no one makes anything out of red wood. your argument is full of holes
try to actually research FACTS next time.
this is at odds with previous statements of less than 1% of old growth redwoods left! how can you cut some thing that is not there! (you are flip flopping on the facts) and for another fact "redwoods for furniture"??
what have you been smoking? furniture is made of oak,walnut, maple,and pine no one makes anything out of red wood. your argument is full of holes
try to actually research FACTS next time.
Really it doesn't matter if its furniture, decks, houses or whatever that is made from redwood. The point is there are other materials that all the above and then some can be made out of. In other words, there is no justifiable reason to clear cut old growth redwoods..
If less than one percent of the old growth forests are remaining and the clear cutting is continuing at a faster rate, then there will be less than one percent left in a time very soon. That is the primary reason that MAXXAM/PL needs to be stopped ASAP..
If anyone would like to attempt to measure the rate (km per month/year?) of continuing clear cuts, it would be an awesome feat. All i know is that another clear cut just occurred on Gypsy mountain and several more are planned. Lower Village at Freshwater just lost some massive old growths recently. Therefore the rate cannot be slowing down any considerable amount. for that reason very brave souls are up in the last few old growths trying to prevent them from falling by MAXXAM's corporate chainsaws..
Bush and Hurwitz chopping down a tree
look out next they're coming after me
while you watch and wonder what to do
they're getting set and coming after you..
Free the people and the forests from WTO and MAXXAM corporate tyranny..
If less than one percent of the old growth forests are remaining and the clear cutting is continuing at a faster rate, then there will be less than one percent left in a time very soon. That is the primary reason that MAXXAM/PL needs to be stopped ASAP..
If anyone would like to attempt to measure the rate (km per month/year?) of continuing clear cuts, it would be an awesome feat. All i know is that another clear cut just occurred on Gypsy mountain and several more are planned. Lower Village at Freshwater just lost some massive old growths recently. Therefore the rate cannot be slowing down any considerable amount. for that reason very brave souls are up in the last few old growths trying to prevent them from falling by MAXXAM's corporate chainsaws..
Bush and Hurwitz chopping down a tree
look out next they're coming after me
while you watch and wonder what to do
they're getting set and coming after you..
Free the people and the forests from WTO and MAXXAM corporate tyranny..
Possibly i did not explain myself clearly when talking about the rate (species per hour) of current extinctions vs. past extinctions. Yes, the previous mass extinctions, especially the Permian caused a larger amount of species to die than what Homo sapiens have caused up to this point. This leaves out the fact that this current mass extinction is continuing, and the RATE is ACCELERATING. So it is possible to have a faster rate than the Permian, this does not imply total numbers. This is based on info currently recorded by field scientists, so the current measured rate is lower than the actual rate..
Current Mass Extinction (the sixth)
http://www.well.com/user/davidu/extinction.html
The rate (species per hour) of current extinctions is continuing and accelerating. Also it does not show signs of stopping, especially since GW Bush has rolled back environmental protections and the WTO/Plan Puebla Panama wants to let Boise Cascade log in the Lacandon rainforest of Chiapas MX. Meanwhile MAXXAM continues clearcutting old growth redwoods and another marbled murrelet searches in vain for a home. As we argue the details of extinction a rainforest plant just became extinct and there was no scientist there to notice..
So, if a plant species goes extinct in the rainforest and a scientist does not record it, does anyone hear it die?
Current Mass Extinction (the sixth)
http://www.well.com/user/davidu/extinction.html
The rate (species per hour) of current extinctions is continuing and accelerating. Also it does not show signs of stopping, especially since GW Bush has rolled back environmental protections and the WTO/Plan Puebla Panama wants to let Boise Cascade log in the Lacandon rainforest of Chiapas MX. Meanwhile MAXXAM continues clearcutting old growth redwoods and another marbled murrelet searches in vain for a home. As we argue the details of extinction a rainforest plant just became extinct and there was no scientist there to notice..
So, if a plant species goes extinct in the rainforest and a scientist does not record it, does anyone hear it die?
For more information:
http://www.well.com/user/davidu/extinction...
and several more are planned. Lower Village at Freshwater
on another article you stated that freshwater and the lower village was "ALL CUT" so now you are saying that it was not?(seems you have that consistency problem again!)
for that reason very brave souls are up in the last few old growths trying to prevent them from falling by MAXXAM's corporate chainsaws..
........(and here we go again now we are back to just a few trees left, since earth first by its own count has only posted eight to ten tree sitters maximum at any one time that would mead that we have less than a dozen old growth red woods left "according to your estimates" and we have to tell you how long the loggers would take to cut them?
"you could do the math with out taking off your socks"!
and yes when facts desert you it is always nice to
resort to poorly composed poetry to bridge the gap of logic...right?
when talking about the rate (species per hour) of current extinctions vs. past extinctions. - moth
OK...I WILL CALL YOU ON THIS
please tell this list exactly how many species per hour are becomming extinct at this point in time.and at what rate is this extinction excelerating?
what species went extinct in this last hour- ( ___________________ )
and what was the hourly rate of extinction say 10,000 years ago????
OK...I WILL CALL YOU ON THIS
please tell this list exactly how many species per hour are becomming extinct at this point in time.and at what rate is this extinction excelerating?
what species went extinct in this last hour- ( ___________________ )
and what was the hourly rate of extinction say 10,000 years ago????
First off I want to express my sympathy and solidarity with the family and comerades of David Chain, who was certainly a martyr killed, likely deliberately, defending the last ancient redwoods. His life and struggle are an inspiration to me and countless others.
I just wanted to draw some attention to an issue that is usually ignored, but should be taken seriously by anyone concerned about respect for other cultures and the struggle against racism/ethnocentrism. I bring this up in the belief that those who loved and worked with David Chain are decent people, opposed to racism, and are willing to listen.
The word "Gypsy" is an inaccurate slur used to describe the Romani culture. (Romani is the adjective form, the people are Rom or Roma.) Consider:
'"Gypsy" conjures up all kinds of stereotypical images of Roma in the minds of viewers and readers. It should be replaced by Roma. Gypsy has been applied to the Roma by outsiders and it is offensive to many Roma just like Indian is offensive to Canada’s Native People.' ---from: http://www.romani.org/toronto/FS5jour.html
Also:
'The term "Gypsy" as used in scholarly writings supports misconceptions that all Roma are migratory, roam the countryside, and are engaged in questionable or illegal activities, as exemplified by slang terms like "to gyp," meaning to swindle. For many people, just the word "Gypsy" conjures up the picture of dirty women in long skirts, apparently sickly babies in their arms, begging for money or asking to read palms. For others, they are petty swindlers who rent storefronts and deceive a gullible public. It is only natural that many Roma, therefore, view the word "Gypsy" as offensive.'
---from: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/myths.htm
This concerns the use of the word in any context. Furthermore, I would like people to consider what it means for an individual (or a dance troupe, or restaurant-- both exist in San Francisco,) to take as a monkier the name of an ethnic group. How would we feel if, for example, someone/group were to call themself "Jew" or "Negro"?
Naturally, this would be somewhat mitigated if the person in question actually is of that group. Though I have never read anywhere anything to suggest that David Chain's family is of Romani origin, I don't mean to be making assumptions.
But even then, the use of such a name is highly problematic, and even offensive if the term itself is a slur, as is "Gypsy".
I bring this up not to disparage the deceased and his fellow environmentalists, whose work defending the forest has been exemplary, but to raise awareness about a form of ethnocentric domination that is all the more dangerous for being so often invisible.
Thank you. In liberation,
Jeff G
SF, CA
PS: If anyone wished to speak with me about this, please indicate so in a following comment. I apologize for being wary about posting my email address on this site, but I imagine that you can understand my reluctance.
I just wanted to draw some attention to an issue that is usually ignored, but should be taken seriously by anyone concerned about respect for other cultures and the struggle against racism/ethnocentrism. I bring this up in the belief that those who loved and worked with David Chain are decent people, opposed to racism, and are willing to listen.
The word "Gypsy" is an inaccurate slur used to describe the Romani culture. (Romani is the adjective form, the people are Rom or Roma.) Consider:
'"Gypsy" conjures up all kinds of stereotypical images of Roma in the minds of viewers and readers. It should be replaced by Roma. Gypsy has been applied to the Roma by outsiders and it is offensive to many Roma just like Indian is offensive to Canada’s Native People.' ---from: http://www.romani.org/toronto/FS5jour.html
Also:
'The term "Gypsy" as used in scholarly writings supports misconceptions that all Roma are migratory, roam the countryside, and are engaged in questionable or illegal activities, as exemplified by slang terms like "to gyp," meaning to swindle. For many people, just the word "Gypsy" conjures up the picture of dirty women in long skirts, apparently sickly babies in their arms, begging for money or asking to read palms. For others, they are petty swindlers who rent storefronts and deceive a gullible public. It is only natural that many Roma, therefore, view the word "Gypsy" as offensive.'
---from: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/myths.htm
This concerns the use of the word in any context. Furthermore, I would like people to consider what it means for an individual (or a dance troupe, or restaurant-- both exist in San Francisco,) to take as a monkier the name of an ethnic group. How would we feel if, for example, someone/group were to call themself "Jew" or "Negro"?
Naturally, this would be somewhat mitigated if the person in question actually is of that group. Though I have never read anywhere anything to suggest that David Chain's family is of Romani origin, I don't mean to be making assumptions.
But even then, the use of such a name is highly problematic, and even offensive if the term itself is a slur, as is "Gypsy".
I bring this up not to disparage the deceased and his fellow environmentalists, whose work defending the forest has been exemplary, but to raise awareness about a form of ethnocentric domination that is all the more dangerous for being so often invisible.
Thank you. In liberation,
Jeff G
SF, CA
PS: If anyone wished to speak with me about this, please indicate so in a following comment. I apologize for being wary about posting my email address on this site, but I imagine that you can understand my reluctance.
Measuring the current rate of extinctions is nearly impossible. That was my point by saying..
..if a plant species becomes extinct in the rainforest and a scientist does not record it, does anyone hear it die?
In other words, species are going extinct every hour and nobody is there to document it. So the current rate of extinctions cannot be accurate because there are so many undiscovered species becoming extinct without anyone knowing..
Science is an invention of humanity and cannot be anything but sloppy when dealing with a topic as complex as extinction. The current rate of species extinction is not a measurable number because having complete knowledge of this event is impossible. Anyone who thinks they can come up with an equation to prove this is an egotist who thinks the mind of Homo sapiens can comprehend the Universe..
These extinctions are not a result of human survival, many are a result of human greed and overconsumption. Several factors in the western world are leading to this, deforestation and habitat loss contribute greatly. Here in the Northcoast the clearcutting of old growth redwoods are pushing several canopy species such as the red tree vole to the point of extinction. These old growth redwoods do not need to be cut. Other material far more sustainable exists for building houses and such. Jobs can be replaced, the billions of dollars STOLEN by MAXXAM from the PEOPLE of HUMBOLDT could provide a lifetime retirement to every employee of Pacific Lumber..
..if a plant species becomes extinct in the rainforest and a scientist does not record it, does anyone hear it die?
In other words, species are going extinct every hour and nobody is there to document it. So the current rate of extinctions cannot be accurate because there are so many undiscovered species becoming extinct without anyone knowing..
Science is an invention of humanity and cannot be anything but sloppy when dealing with a topic as complex as extinction. The current rate of species extinction is not a measurable number because having complete knowledge of this event is impossible. Anyone who thinks they can come up with an equation to prove this is an egotist who thinks the mind of Homo sapiens can comprehend the Universe..
These extinctions are not a result of human survival, many are a result of human greed and overconsumption. Several factors in the western world are leading to this, deforestation and habitat loss contribute greatly. Here in the Northcoast the clearcutting of old growth redwoods are pushing several canopy species such as the red tree vole to the point of extinction. These old growth redwoods do not need to be cut. Other material far more sustainable exists for building houses and such. Jobs can be replaced, the billions of dollars STOLEN by MAXXAM from the PEOPLE of HUMBOLDT could provide a lifetime retirement to every employee of Pacific Lumber..
For more information:
http://www.well.com/user/davidu/extinction...
So to summarize your latest string of posts...............
you are just making things up and posting them
you throw out invalid facts, and when you are called on them you just make up more none-science!
NOW TO DISPUTE THE NEXT NONSENSICAL FACTOID FROM MOTH.............
which species have gone extinct between 5:00pm and 6:00 pm pacific standard time........????
Moth's answer..(________________________)
and what was the hourly rate of extinction say 10,000 years ago???? please fill us in on this fact of yours..
Moth's answer..(__________________________)
name five papermills that use redwood to produce paper???
Moth's answer..(___________________________)
And, if all the trees in the lower village are cut, how many years can loggers cut trees that are already fallen?
Moth's answer..(___________________________)
p.s. which college did you shunka graduate from?
Moth's answer..(___________________________)
you are just making things up and posting them
you throw out invalid facts, and when you are called on them you just make up more none-science!
NOW TO DISPUTE THE NEXT NONSENSICAL FACTOID FROM MOTH.............
which species have gone extinct between 5:00pm and 6:00 pm pacific standard time........????
Moth's answer..(________________________)
and what was the hourly rate of extinction say 10,000 years ago???? please fill us in on this fact of yours..
Moth's answer..(__________________________)
name five papermills that use redwood to produce paper???
Moth's answer..(___________________________)
And, if all the trees in the lower village are cut, how many years can loggers cut trees that are already fallen?
Moth's answer..(___________________________)
p.s. which college did you shunka graduate from?
Moth's answer..(___________________________)
jeff illustrates a fine point. and blessed it be for the factoids. for those who take the time to read his comments it's informative and refreshing to learn about. thanks.
there's only been one other time i heard this information and that was by i think jeremy skahill(spelling is probably off, but it's close) at a KPFA/PACIFICA benefit. never knew how repressed folks in ROMA were. honorable and respectful. thanks for the information. will try and share it with others in the woods or when the topic of David Chain aka Gypsy comes up.
there's only been one other time i heard this information and that was by i think jeremy skahill(spelling is probably off, but it's close) at a KPFA/PACIFICA benefit. never knew how repressed folks in ROMA were. honorable and respectful. thanks for the information. will try and share it with others in the woods or when the topic of David Chain aka Gypsy comes up.
The term "junk science" was first used by conservatives in the Bush/Limbaugh camp to dispute global warming and climate change. Any science of possible theories that talk about the negative effects of big business on the environment are considered "junk science" by conservatives..
To answer some of the questions, between 5:00 and 6:00 pm today approximately 2-8 species went extinct globally. Since scientists, junky or not, are not able to physically be in all places where extinctions occur at once to record the data, we can't give any species names until a later date..
The species at risk in the redwoods ecosystem are specialists. That means they are only found in this ecosystem, and therefore dependent on the health of the old growth redwoods and their neighbors, the douglas firs/sitka spruce. The arboreal tree vole in particular is one species that is being reduced to a smaller population because of habitat fragmentation from clearcut logging..
The average rate of extinction that did not occur during a mass extinction was 2.5 species per year, according to the fossil record. Since not all animals are fossilized the same, the rate could be slightly higher. Since this is not a MAXXAM accountant's report, we don't have exact figures..
Today the rate of extinction is 1,000 to 10,000 times higher, 40 to 250 species per day on average. This rate is most likely greater than what is actually measured, again, if nobody is there to record an extinction, we don't know exact figures..
Whoever is angry with me for talking about extinctions from clearcut logging of old growths, please don't think i'm blaming the loggers. This continued growth economic system we live under forces people to take jobs and work for corporations in order to survive. MAXXAM corporation is at fault for the increased rate of clearcutting old growths, this is evidenced by the change of tactics since Houston based MAXXAM took over locally owned Pacific Lumber. Ask anyone from the steelworkers union why they are boycotting MAXXAM. MAXXAM is guilty of fraud and deceptive business practices, not the loggers who work for them..
MAXXAM needs to return what they stole from the people of Humboldt County. People here are starving and Charles Hurwitz, the CEO of MAXXAM has billions from the theft of our old growth redwoods. MAXXAM has enough money to provide every logger food and living expenses for years to come..
We would be better off protecting the redwood forests for the future generations instead of allowing a corrupt corporation like MAXXAM to rob the people of Humboldt.
To answer some of the questions, between 5:00 and 6:00 pm today approximately 2-8 species went extinct globally. Since scientists, junky or not, are not able to physically be in all places where extinctions occur at once to record the data, we can't give any species names until a later date..
The species at risk in the redwoods ecosystem are specialists. That means they are only found in this ecosystem, and therefore dependent on the health of the old growth redwoods and their neighbors, the douglas firs/sitka spruce. The arboreal tree vole in particular is one species that is being reduced to a smaller population because of habitat fragmentation from clearcut logging..
The average rate of extinction that did not occur during a mass extinction was 2.5 species per year, according to the fossil record. Since not all animals are fossilized the same, the rate could be slightly higher. Since this is not a MAXXAM accountant's report, we don't have exact figures..
Today the rate of extinction is 1,000 to 10,000 times higher, 40 to 250 species per day on average. This rate is most likely greater than what is actually measured, again, if nobody is there to record an extinction, we don't know exact figures..
Whoever is angry with me for talking about extinctions from clearcut logging of old growths, please don't think i'm blaming the loggers. This continued growth economic system we live under forces people to take jobs and work for corporations in order to survive. MAXXAM corporation is at fault for the increased rate of clearcutting old growths, this is evidenced by the change of tactics since Houston based MAXXAM took over locally owned Pacific Lumber. Ask anyone from the steelworkers union why they are boycotting MAXXAM. MAXXAM is guilty of fraud and deceptive business practices, not the loggers who work for them..
MAXXAM needs to return what they stole from the people of Humboldt County. People here are starving and Charles Hurwitz, the CEO of MAXXAM has billions from the theft of our old growth redwoods. MAXXAM has enough money to provide every logger food and living expenses for years to come..
We would be better off protecting the redwood forests for the future generations instead of allowing a corrupt corporation like MAXXAM to rob the people of Humboldt.
For more information:
http://www.jailhurwitz.com/media/kaiser_do...
To answer some of the questions, between 5:00 and 6:00 pm today approximately 2-8 species went extinct globally.
WHICH ONES, AND TRY TO BE SPECIFIC
i will make it easy for you...(LIST FOUR THAT WENT EXTINCT (between 5:00 and 6:00 pm today)
Today the rate of extinction is 1,000 to 10,000 times higher, 40 to 250 species per day on average.
WHICH ONES, AND TRY TO BE SPECIFIC
(THE FIRST 100 ON TODAYS LIST WILL SURFICEF)
MAXXAM needs to return what they stole from the people of Humboldt County. People here are starving
PLEASE DOCUMENT THIS STATEMENT
AND BEFORE WE TAKE ON THE TOPIC OF GLOBAL WARMING, LET'S TRY TO CLEAR UP ALL THESE EXISTING QUESTIONS, THAT SEEM TO HAVE VERY NON-SPECIFIC ANSWERS ?
WHICH ONES, AND TRY TO BE SPECIFIC
i will make it easy for you...(LIST FOUR THAT WENT EXTINCT (between 5:00 and 6:00 pm today)
Today the rate of extinction is 1,000 to 10,000 times higher, 40 to 250 species per day on average.
WHICH ONES, AND TRY TO BE SPECIFIC
(THE FIRST 100 ON TODAYS LIST WILL SURFICEF)
MAXXAM needs to return what they stole from the people of Humboldt County. People here are starving
PLEASE DOCUMENT THIS STATEMENT
AND BEFORE WE TAKE ON THE TOPIC OF GLOBAL WARMING, LET'S TRY TO CLEAR UP ALL THESE EXISTING QUESTIONS, THAT SEEM TO HAVE VERY NON-SPECIFIC ANSWERS ?
unfortunately i cannot be specific. If u want to know exactly what species went extinct, you'll have to visit all parts of the world simultaneously..
The average rate of extinction is based on a rate that can be tested after the event has occurred. Measuring the rates of extinction in rainforests is not as accurate as Charles Hurwitz's accounting book at MAXXAM corporation..
..of course MAXXAM documents all their activities accurately, even when they are being deceitful. It is possible to be deceitful and look accurate..
..if i told you i knew what species went extinct in the past hour then i would be deceitful. Again, the rate of extinction is an average based on figures such as habitat lost per hour, etc..
Field science and climate change contains many variables, so lack of accuracy is often termed "junk science" by people of the Bush/Limbaugh camp becuase they cannot comprehend ambiguity. The facts of habitat loss increasing species extinctions and global temp increase as a result of fossil fuel combustion emissions are based on evidence..
So when MAXXAM clear cuts old growth redwoods they are increasing the rate of extinction..
The average rate of extinction is based on a rate that can be tested after the event has occurred. Measuring the rates of extinction in rainforests is not as accurate as Charles Hurwitz's accounting book at MAXXAM corporation..
..of course MAXXAM documents all their activities accurately, even when they are being deceitful. It is possible to be deceitful and look accurate..
..if i told you i knew what species went extinct in the past hour then i would be deceitful. Again, the rate of extinction is an average based on figures such as habitat lost per hour, etc..
Field science and climate change contains many variables, so lack of accuracy is often termed "junk science" by people of the Bush/Limbaugh camp becuase they cannot comprehend ambiguity. The facts of habitat loss increasing species extinctions and global temp increase as a result of fossil fuel combustion emissions are based on evidence..
So when MAXXAM clear cuts old growth redwoods they are increasing the rate of extinction..
Moth,
Just name one species that went extinct in the last ten years. Any species from any continent. Just show me that you are trying to back up what you say.
Surely you can name one species that has died out during the worst period of extinction known to occur.
As for old growth redwood, while harvests of valuable habitat can harm a species (thus designated as a take), Pacific Lumber does not own enough of such valuable old growth habitat to significantly damage any species global or regional population. The extinction card is one you use to drum up support from the ignorant urban masses, but it is unfounded and irresponsible.
Just name one Moth.
Please?
Log on
Just name one species that went extinct in the last ten years. Any species from any continent. Just show me that you are trying to back up what you say.
Surely you can name one species that has died out during the worst period of extinction known to occur.
As for old growth redwood, while harvests of valuable habitat can harm a species (thus designated as a take), Pacific Lumber does not own enough of such valuable old growth habitat to significantly damage any species global or regional population. The extinction card is one you use to drum up support from the ignorant urban masses, but it is unfounded and irresponsible.
Just name one Moth.
Please?
Log on
Hopefully the following article can explain why we can't answer the questions asked about last week's extinctions. People cannot declare a species extinct until they are absolutely certain. If we stated a species extinct just because we didn't see it for a while, then we would not be accurate. Something called integrity comes to mind. Maybe MAXXAM could learn something about integrity..
"Five species have been added to the Extinct List over the past two years, said the union, known as
IUCN, which is based in Gland, Switzerland. Besides the mollusk they include two hippo species,
last seen in 1500, the sea mink, unseen since 1860, and Reunion Island sheldgeese, last sighted
around 1710.
"It can take so long because we need scientific proof and records that the species has gone extinct
and that there are no subspecies alive," said IUCN spokeswoman Xenya Cherny. "That can take a
long time."
The group has examined some 18,000 species and subspecies around the globe. But scientists
admit that even a study this large only scratches the surface. Earth is home to an estimated 14
million species — and only 1.75 million have been documented.
Many may become extinct before they are even identified.
Conservationists think the current extinction rate is 1,000 to 10,000 times higher than it should be
under natural conditions. That means that in the first decades of the 21st century, many creatures
may disappear.
The primary reason: humans. Everything from expanding cities to deforestation, agriculture and
fishing pose a major threat to the planet's biodiversity, IUCN says.
But two species previously considered extinct have been rediscovered, the Lord Howe Island stick
insect and the Bavarian pine vole. The stick insect was believed to have become extinct in 1920
but was seen again in 2001. The Bavarian pine vole wasn't seen since 1962 but was rediscovered in 2000 on the German-Austrian border."
From ICUN red list;
http://www.iucn.org/themes/ssc/redlist2002/rl_news.htm
"There are now 811 species assessed as Extinct and Extinct in the Wild, with seven additions to these categories since 2000 including the sea mink (Mustela macrodon) which was last seen in 1860, the Réunion Island sheldgoose (Mascarenachen kervazoi) which became extinct around 1710, and two hippo species (Hippopotamus lemerlei and H. madagascariensis) that became extinct around 1500 AD."
Hopefully this can explain why it is difficult for scientists to declare a species extinct with 100 percent certainty. Just because a few individuals of a species are rediscovered, that does not ensure their long term survival. A low population size can cause lack of genetic diversity from inbreeding, which increases the risk of lethal genetic mutations. The Bavarian pine vole is still a threatened species with low population.
http://www.petermaas.nl/extinct/english.htm
"Five species have been added to the Extinct List over the past two years, said the union, known as
IUCN, which is based in Gland, Switzerland. Besides the mollusk they include two hippo species,
last seen in 1500, the sea mink, unseen since 1860, and Reunion Island sheldgeese, last sighted
around 1710.
"It can take so long because we need scientific proof and records that the species has gone extinct
and that there are no subspecies alive," said IUCN spokeswoman Xenya Cherny. "That can take a
long time."
The group has examined some 18,000 species and subspecies around the globe. But scientists
admit that even a study this large only scratches the surface. Earth is home to an estimated 14
million species — and only 1.75 million have been documented.
Many may become extinct before they are even identified.
Conservationists think the current extinction rate is 1,000 to 10,000 times higher than it should be
under natural conditions. That means that in the first decades of the 21st century, many creatures
may disappear.
The primary reason: humans. Everything from expanding cities to deforestation, agriculture and
fishing pose a major threat to the planet's biodiversity, IUCN says.
But two species previously considered extinct have been rediscovered, the Lord Howe Island stick
insect and the Bavarian pine vole. The stick insect was believed to have become extinct in 1920
but was seen again in 2001. The Bavarian pine vole wasn't seen since 1962 but was rediscovered in 2000 on the German-Austrian border."
From ICUN red list;
http://www.iucn.org/themes/ssc/redlist2002/rl_news.htm
"There are now 811 species assessed as Extinct and Extinct in the Wild, with seven additions to these categories since 2000 including the sea mink (Mustela macrodon) which was last seen in 1860, the Réunion Island sheldgoose (Mascarenachen kervazoi) which became extinct around 1710, and two hippo species (Hippopotamus lemerlei and H. madagascariensis) that became extinct around 1500 AD."
Hopefully this can explain why it is difficult for scientists to declare a species extinct with 100 percent certainty. Just because a few individuals of a species are rediscovered, that does not ensure their long term survival. A low population size can cause lack of genetic diversity from inbreeding, which increases the risk of lethal genetic mutations. The Bavarian pine vole is still a threatened species with low population.
http://www.petermaas.nl/extinct/english.htm
For more information:
http://creo.amnh.org/pdi.html
http://www.mg.co.za/Content/l3.asp?ao=21022
'Extinct' insectivore found alive in Cuba
Havana, Cuba
25 September 2003 13:31
With its long snout and tiny body covered with spiky, long brown hair, the worm-munching creature known as Solenodon cubanus long has been a mystery to zoologists, who believed it to be extinct.
But a farmer in eastern Cuba recently found the first live specimen of the ancient and enigmatic creature seen in four years, local media said.
The find proved conclusively that Solenodon cubanus still survives, and raised hopes that the curious animal, dubbed "Alejandrito", may have other relatives roaming the island.
"Only a few have been seen since the 1980s," Douglas Long of the California Academy of Sciences' department of ornithology and mammalogy said on Wednesday from San Francisco.
"To capture a live one is very interesting. Very little is known about them so any information obtained from studying it can be very helpful.
"All we can hope is that there are more and that they could have babies," he said.
The discovery of the animal, known locally as an almiqui (pronounced ahl-mee-KEE) was reported this week by Cuba's Prensa Latina news agency.
Named "Alejandrito" by the farmer that found it in the eastern province of Holguin, the male almiqui weighs 688g and veterinarians declared the animal in perfect health.
The creature looks like a brownish woolly badger with a long, pink-tipped snout and can measure up to nearly 50cm. A stuffed version of the animal is on display at the Natural History Museum in Havana.
The nocturnal animal burrows underground during the daytime, explaining why it is rarely seen. After the sun goes down, it emerges to root out worms, larvae and insects.
Prensa Latina said the last reported sightings of the creatures were in 1972 in Cuba's eastern province of Guantanamo and in 1999 in the eastern province of Holguin.
Long said he believed several of the animals also were found dead in the 1980s, usually killed by dogs.
"They are extremely uncommon, and they are extremely shy," he said.
After holding "Alejandrito" for two days of study and medical tests, Cuban scientists declared the almiqui to be in excellent health and marked it before its release in the general area where was found.
"Even the study of this one animal will increase our understanding of the species as a whole," Long said. "I've never seen a live one, just stuffed ones in museums and the Solenodon skull we here at the academy."
Long said several Solenodon species once lived in the Caribbean islands, but were slowly wiped out by deforestation as land was cleared for lumber and to grow sugar cane.
The introduction over the centuries of large carnivores, especially dogs, to the islands helped kill off most other Solenodon varieties, he said. The Solenodon cubanus lives only in Cuba.
The Solenodon paradoxus, which lives on the neighboring island of Hispaniola, is the only surviving relative species, he said. -- Sapa-AP
'Extinct' insectivore found alive in Cuba
Havana, Cuba
25 September 2003 13:31
With its long snout and tiny body covered with spiky, long brown hair, the worm-munching creature known as Solenodon cubanus long has been a mystery to zoologists, who believed it to be extinct.
But a farmer in eastern Cuba recently found the first live specimen of the ancient and enigmatic creature seen in four years, local media said.
The find proved conclusively that Solenodon cubanus still survives, and raised hopes that the curious animal, dubbed "Alejandrito", may have other relatives roaming the island.
"Only a few have been seen since the 1980s," Douglas Long of the California Academy of Sciences' department of ornithology and mammalogy said on Wednesday from San Francisco.
"To capture a live one is very interesting. Very little is known about them so any information obtained from studying it can be very helpful.
"All we can hope is that there are more and that they could have babies," he said.
The discovery of the animal, known locally as an almiqui (pronounced ahl-mee-KEE) was reported this week by Cuba's Prensa Latina news agency.
Named "Alejandrito" by the farmer that found it in the eastern province of Holguin, the male almiqui weighs 688g and veterinarians declared the animal in perfect health.
The creature looks like a brownish woolly badger with a long, pink-tipped snout and can measure up to nearly 50cm. A stuffed version of the animal is on display at the Natural History Museum in Havana.
The nocturnal animal burrows underground during the daytime, explaining why it is rarely seen. After the sun goes down, it emerges to root out worms, larvae and insects.
Prensa Latina said the last reported sightings of the creatures were in 1972 in Cuba's eastern province of Guantanamo and in 1999 in the eastern province of Holguin.
Long said he believed several of the animals also were found dead in the 1980s, usually killed by dogs.
"They are extremely uncommon, and they are extremely shy," he said.
After holding "Alejandrito" for two days of study and medical tests, Cuban scientists declared the almiqui to be in excellent health and marked it before its release in the general area where was found.
"Even the study of this one animal will increase our understanding of the species as a whole," Long said. "I've never seen a live one, just stuffed ones in museums and the Solenodon skull we here at the academy."
Long said several Solenodon species once lived in the Caribbean islands, but were slowly wiped out by deforestation as land was cleared for lumber and to grow sugar cane.
The introduction over the centuries of large carnivores, especially dogs, to the islands helped kill off most other Solenodon varieties, he said. The Solenodon cubanus lives only in Cuba.
The Solenodon paradoxus, which lives on the neighboring island of Hispaniola, is the only surviving relative species, he said. -- Sapa-AP
'"Gypsy" conjures up all kinds of stereotypical images of Roma in the minds of viewers and readers. It should be replaced by Roma.
Jeff ,
you are correct on your point of the '"Gypsy" nick name being offensive to diverse cultures. and I for one now realize that we have been very culturally insensitive in our use of nick names. I an sorry for the discomfort it may have caused you.
Thank you moth.
The sea mink has gone extinct.
That is good to know.
I am not sure that extinction is related to timber harvesting but it is a start.
Perhaps with more logging restrictions we could have protected the sea mink, and those hippos.
Damn.
Damn.
Log on.
The sea mink has gone extinct.
That is good to know.
I am not sure that extinction is related to timber harvesting but it is a start.
Perhaps with more logging restrictions we could have protected the sea mink, and those hippos.
Damn.
Damn.
Log on.
Would you care to explain the crash in the coho salmon population?
saving the endangered Hippo's of the north west!
once Again
Gypsymoth has shown his astounding knowledge of the forest eco-system!
what have we been doing sitting in trees while the endangered Hippo's of the north west have gone unprotected! quick every one out to the forest to document the decline of this once proud species now on the verge of extinction!
gone is the day that tens of thousands of Humboldt free range forest hippo's roamed freely in the redwood forests of the north west American continent
once Again
Gypsymoth has shown his astounding knowledge of the forest eco-system!
what have we been doing sitting in trees while the endangered Hippo's of the north west have gone unprotected! quick every one out to the forest to document the decline of this once proud species now on the verge of extinction!
gone is the day that tens of thousands of Humboldt free range forest hippo's roamed freely in the redwood forests of the north west American continent
http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/scitech.cfm?id=1062392003
Death ray extinction theory
A DEATH ray from space may have caused one of the Earth’s worst mass extinctions 443 million years ago, it has been claimed. Scientists believe the pattern of trilobite extinctions matched the effects of a nearby gamma-ray burst.
Gamma-ray bursts are the most powerful cosmological explosions known. As giant stars collapse into black holes at the end of their lives, they shoot out intense pulses of gamma rays. Adrian Melott, of the University of Kansas, says such a burst within our galaxy could produce enough nitrogen dioxide to blot out half the sunlight reaching the Earth.
Death ray extinction theory
A DEATH ray from space may have caused one of the Earth’s worst mass extinctions 443 million years ago, it has been claimed. Scientists believe the pattern of trilobite extinctions matched the effects of a nearby gamma-ray burst.
Gamma-ray bursts are the most powerful cosmological explosions known. As giant stars collapse into black holes at the end of their lives, they shoot out intense pulses of gamma rays. Adrian Melott, of the University of Kansas, says such a burst within our galaxy could produce enough nitrogen dioxide to blot out half the sunlight reaching the Earth.
once Again
Roma-moth has shown his astounding knowledge of the forest eco-system!
what have we been doing sitting in trees while the endangered Hippo's of the north west have gone unprotected! quick every one out to the forest to document the decline of this once proud species now on the verge of extinction!
gone is the day that tens of thousands of Humboldt free range forest hippo's roamed freely in the redwood forests of the north west American continent
moth , we are still waiting
we are still waiting for your list of the species that went into extinction for this hour! (5:00pm,to 6:00pm)
as you promised in a previous post
we would also like to see those hourly extinction rates for ten thousand years ago...along with the list of what disappeared during which hour....
EXACTLY WHICH SPECIES DISAPPEARED THIS DAY, THIS HOUR TEN THOUSAND YEARS AGO.?????????
EXACTLY WHICH SPECIES DISAPPEARED THIS DAY, THIS HOUR A THOUSAND YEARS AGO.?????????
IN YOUR PREVIOUS STATEMENTS YOU CLAIM TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO TELL US THE EXACT HOUR THAT ANY GIVEN SPECIES GOES EXTINCT
SO.....THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO IMPRESS US WITH
YOUR SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE
We are 100% volunteer and depend on your participation to sustain our efforts!
Donate
$210.00 donated
in the past month
Get Involved
If you'd like to help with maintaining or developing the website, contact us.
Publish
Publish your stories and upcoming events on Indybay.
Topics
More
Search Indybay's Archives
Advanced Search
►
▼
IMC Network