CONVERGE ON NYCIMC 9.11.03

What's up with this?

I was going to look at their 'hidden posts' to see what their latest ones are that were removed but I can't find where it is on that site. Most imcs seem to have it up front, but some, like austin and nyc, don't.

Is this the best way to handle this sort of thing ? Have other methods been tried? Does the larger sort of imc structure have any method for dealing with this sort of thing? I've heard a bit about other imcs coming apart after disagreements, but when has this happened before, and what was the outcome?

Just wondering.

It's gotten out of hand

Hiddden NYCIMC

http://www.nyc.indymedia.org/display.php3?group=webcast&led=y&sort=&rate=none&filter=hidden

If you're going to "converge" and "liberate" every IMC whose editors selectively remove posts then you'd have to attack nearly every IMC in the system. Why attack NYC-IMC as opposed to SF-IMC?

Why does SF-IMC allow NYC-IMC to be attacked on its site?

I think your time would be better spent starting Brooklyn or Queens.indymedia or something. There is really unlimited space on the internet, and on imcs. If you look at the list of all the indymedias, there are all sorts of little towns like Danbury and Rogue valley now have an IMC, because you can borrow the sf-active code and set up your own shop. Also, millions of people run a blog with running commentary. There are many people who don't want to do real journalism (which is what the newswire is there for. The IMCs aren't chat boards), who should enter the blogosphere and getting others to link to their blog, and getting their word out that way.

Raise your fist if you love Freedom!

This Thursday, NYC IMC, urge to Converge!!

Say yes to free Speech. Say yes to progressive and alternative News and information.

Vince, the IMC is about much more than you, your issues, and your goddamn cartoons. You are destroying your own credibility not Chris Anderson's.

I think they're pretty good, despite all being about someone named Chris lately.

Starting another imc sounds good, but that doesn't get at the issue of what's happening at nyc, which I often notice as a typical zionist debate tactic - try to refocus the argument and redirect attention elsewhere.

Why isn't anyone really talking about what specifically is going on here?

I like the idea of starting another IMC for the NY/NJ/CONN Tri-State area.

NYC IMC puts out an excellent high quality newpaper to the neglect of the website/newswire.

Chris is writing things about blogs having superceded our sense of purpose.

It's clear web devotees should start another website for progressives under the rubric of IMC.

Here the blog article where Chris tells us, in so many words, that IMC Websites are Passé

The people of israel supported a peaceful two-state solution for a long time.

The people of palestinian land support intifada, jihad, martyring themselves, hamas, and arafat.

What about the Jewish only colonies in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

--"It isn't fair to THE PEOPLE in Israel to be told that the only way out of this is to allow Muslims who want to murder them into Israel."

Well, there are about 400,000 Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories along with the Israeli army. They are in fact the crux of the problem without whom there would be little to no Palestinian resistance. They want all that land for themselves and none of it is rightfully theirs (under international law).

Why say the above about the Palestinians' Right to Return which is their right under international law (a right no American can unilaterally take away) while not saying a word about the illegal Jewish colonizers and their army in the West Bank and Gaza Strip (illegal under international law). And we pay for their colonization.

The palestinian "right of return" is as existent as the jewish "right of return" to the arab countries who stole their homes and lives.

In other words, there is none. Jews moved on and created a thriving country. Arabs had full control of the west bank, gaza and east jerusalem for almost TWENTY YEARS (1948-1967) and did nothing but boot out the jews, destroy synagogues, and try to keep wiping out israel, but failing.

Stop fighting the truth you pro-islamic-terrorist nutcases.

>There is every bit as big a problem with the terrorist organizations on the Israeli side, the Mossad, Shin Bet, the settler militias, and certain elements of the IDF.

Though Israeli police and Shin Bet (Israel's FBI) managed to uncover and bring to justice a Jewish terrorist squad (and this was not the first time a Jewish terrorist cell operated in the territories), it's a lie to assert "the Mossad, Shin Bet, and certain elements of the IDF" are terrorist organizations.

>Only the PEOPLE of Israel can fix it. And they can never fix it alone. They must unite with the PEOPLE of Palestine and build the lasting peace that the terrorist leaders of both sides have denied them.

The "PEOPLE of Israel" don't want to "fix it" because they long ago realized the Palestinians by and large support terrorism against them. Had the Israeli electorate though Sharon and the others comprising his government were terrorists, they wouldn't have voted them in to office. The "PEOPLE of Israel" won't "fix it" as long as the most of the Palestinian leadership and people support and enable, or even tolerate Palestinian terrorism.

>It also isn’t fair to the PEOPLE of Palestine to punish the innocents among them for the crimes of their leaders or to expect them to sit idly by while their homes are demolished, their groves uprooted, their families brutalized and humiliated and their children shot down like dogs in the street.

It also isn't fair to neglect mentioning that innocent Palestinians are not targeted (not punished intentionally), to fail mentioning people aiding and abetting the terror of their loved one live in houses demolished, to omit the fact terrorists staged attacks behind the cover of groves that were later uprooted, to LIE about "families brutalized and humiliated and their children shot down like dogs in the street."(!!!, this last part I quoted shows what vile audacity this editor has).

>Both men, all of their henchmen and all the various organizations which keep them in power are a symptom of one thing and one thing only. It, not they, is the REAL cause of the conflict.

Wrong. It's the Palestinian side that's the REAL CAUSE of the problem. If this weren't so Ehud Barak wouldn't lose to Sharon almost 3 years ago and there would have been a peace deal at Camp David/Taba.

>It is the failure of both the Israeli PEOPLE and the Palestinian PEOPLE to bypass their leaders and make the peace themselves.

Utter nonsense. The Palestinians DON'T WANT and NEVER WANTED to bypass their leaders. Even if they had tried to do that, they would meet a steadfast Israeli refusal to accept their supposed right of return, only to keep insisting on it ad infinitum, which in turn means keeping peace prospects at zero level.

>War is how they make their living. War is what gives them power.

So you must say that also about Winston Churchill. If you don't, you're dishonest and hypocritical.

>Peace, real peace, would make them redundant, irrelevant, and in the cases of Sharon and Arafat, prisoners for life for their war crimes.

Did this editor see that in a crystal ball? What makes him/her so sure??

You mean the Butcher of Gallipoli? The puller of "Bomber" Harris's strings?

The man was a monster.

He was just *our* monster, that's all.

"One of the Editors" - that's as good a summation of the Israel/Palestine mess I've heard yet. I agree completely.

But back to the subject of the original post.

Vince is using this newsire to single out and attack Chris Anderson, one of the editors of NYC-IMC. If Vince has issues with the editorial policy of NYC-IMC he can tell us what they are without resorting to a smear campaign directed against a single individual.