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Interview with Sharon 1982
"Even today I am willing to volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have everyone hate us"
(Interview with Ariel Sharon published in the Israeli daily Davar Dec. 17, 1982)
By Amos Oz
"You can call me anything you like. Call me a monster or a murderer. Just note that I don't hate Arabs. On the contrary. Personally, I am much more at ease with them, and especially with the Bedouin, than with Jews. Those Arabs we haven't yet spoilt are proud people, they are irrational, cruel and generous. It's the Yids that are all twisted. In order to straighten them out you have to first bend them sharply the other way. That, in brief, is my whole ideology.
"Call Israel by any name you like, call it a Judeo-Nazi state as does Leibowitz. Why not? Better a live Judeo-Nazi than a dead saint. I don't care whether I am like Ghadafi. I am not after the admiration of the gentiles. I don't need their love. I don't need to be loved by Jews like you either. I have to live, and I intend to ensure that my children will live as well. With or without the blessing of the Pope and the other religious leaders from the New York Times. I will destroy anyone who will raise a hand against my children, I will destroy him and his children, with or without our famous purity of arms. I don't care if he is Christian, Muslim, Jewish or pagan. History teaches us that he who won't kill will be killed by others. That is an iron law.
"Even if you'll prove to me by mathematical means that the present war in Lebanon is a dirty immoral war, I don't care. Moreover, even if you will prove to me that we have not achieved and will not achieve any of our aims in Lebanon, that we will neither create a friendly regime in Lebanon nor destroy the Syrians or even the PLO, even then I don't care. It was still worth it. Even if Galilee is shelled again by Katyushas in a year's time, I don't really care. We shall start another war, kill and destroy more and more, until they will have had enough. And do you know why it is all worth it? Because it seems that this war has made us more unpopular among the so-called civilised world.
"We'll hear no more of that nonsense about the unique Jewish morality, the moral lessons of the holocaust or about the Jews who were supposed to have emerged from the gas chambers pure and virtuous. No more of that. The destruction of Eyn Hilwe (and it's a pity we did not wipe out that hornet's nest completely!), the healthy bombardment of Beirut and that tiny massacre (can you call 500 Arabs a massacre?) in their camps which we should have committed with our own delicate hands rather than let the Phalangists do it, all these good deeds finally killed the bullshit talk about a unique people and of being a light upon the nations. No more uniqueness and no more sweetness and light. Good riddance."
"I personally don't want to be any better than Khomeini or Brezhnev or Ghadafi or Assad or Mrs. Thatcher, or even Harry Truman who killed half a million Japanese with two fine bombs. I only want to be smarter than they are, quicker and more efficient, not better or more beautiful than they are. Tell me, do the baddies of this world have a bad time? If anyone tries to touch them, the evil men cut his hands and legs off. They hunt and catch whatever they feel like eating. They don't suffer from indigestion and are not punished by Heaven. I want Israel to join that club. Maybe the world will then at last begin to fear me instead of feeling sorry for me. Maybe they will start to tremble, to fear my madness instead of admiring my nobility. Thank god for that. Let them tremble, let them call us a mad state. Let them understand that we are a wild country, dangerous to our surroundings, not normal, that we might go crazy if one of our children is murdered - just one! That we might go wild and burn all the oil fields in the Middle East! If anything would happen to your child, god forbid, you would talk like I do. Let them be aware in Washington, Moscow, Damascus and China that if one of our ambassadors is shot, or even a consul or the most junior embassy official, we might start World War Three just like that !" ......We are talking while sitting on the balcony of the pretty country house belonging to C. which is situated in a prosperous Moshav. To the west we see a burning sunset and there is a scent of fruit trees in the air. We are being served iced coffee in tall glasses. C. is about fifty years old. He is a man well known for his (military) actions. He is a strong, heavy figure wearing shorts but no shirt. His body is tanned a metallic bronze shade, the colour of a blond man living in the sun. He puts his hairy legs on the table and his hands on the chair. There is a scar on his neck. His eyes wander over his plantations. He spells out his ideology in a voice made hoarse by too much smoking:
"Let me tell me [sic] what is the most important thing, the sweetest fruit of the war in Lebanon: It is that now they don't just hate Israel. Thanks to us, they now also hate all those Feinschmecker Jews in Paris, London, New York, Frankfurt and Montreal, in all their holes. At last they hate all these nice Yids, who say they are different from us, that they are not Israeli thugs, that they are different Jews, clean and decent. Just like the assimilated Jew in Vienna and Berlin begged the anti-Semite not to confuse him with the screaming, stinking Ostjude, who had smuggled himself into that cultural environment out of the dirty ghettos of Ukraine and Poland. It won't help them, those clean Yids, just as it did not help them in Vienna and Berlin. Let them shout that they condemn Israel, that they are all right, that they did not want and don't want to hurt a fly, that they always prefer being slaughtered to fighting, that they have taken it upon themselves to teach the gentiles how to be good Christians by always turning the other cheek. It won't do them any good. Now they are getting it there because of us, and I am telling you, it is a pleasure to watch.
"They are the same Yids who persuaded the gentiles to capitulate to the bastards in Vietnam, to give it in to Khomeini, to Brezhnev, to feel sorry for Sheikh Yamani because of his tough childhood, to make love not war. Or rather, to do neither, and instead write a thesis on love and war. We are through with all that. The Yid has been rejected, not only did he crucify Jesus, but he also crucified Arafat in Sabra and Shatila. They are being identified with us and that's a good thing! Their cemeteries are being desecrated, their synagogues are set on fire, all their old nicknames are being revived, they are being expelled from the best clubs, people shoot into their ethnic restaurants murdering small children, forcing them to remove any sign showing them to be Jews, forcing them to move and change their profession.
"Soon their palaces will be smeared with the slogan: Yids, go to Palestine! And you know what? They will go to Palestine because they will have no other choice! All this is a bonus we received from the Lebanese war. Tell me, wasn't it worth it?
"Soon we will hit on good times. The Jews will start arriving, the Israelis will stop emigrating and those who already emigrated will
return. Those who had chosen assimilation will finally understand that it won't help them to try and be the conscience of the world. The 'conscience of the world' will have to understand through its arse what it could not get into its head. The gentiles have always felt sick of the Yids and their conscience, and now the Yids will have only one option: to come home, all of them, fast, to install thick steel doors, to build a strong fence, to have submachine guns positioned at every corner of their fence here and to fight like devils against anyone who dares to make a sound in this region. And if anyone even raises his hand against us we'll take away half his land and burn the other half, including the oil. We might use nuclear arms. We'll go on until he no longer feels like it...
"...You probably want to know whether I am not afraid of the masses of Yids coming here to escape anti-semitism smearing us with their olive oil until we go all soft like them. Listen, history is funny in that way, there is a dialectic here, irony. Who was it who expanded the state of Israel almost up the boundaries of the kingdom of King David? Who expanded the state until it covered the area from Mount Hermon to Raz Muhammad? Levi Eshkol. Of all people, it was that follower of Gordon, that softie, that old woman. Who, on the other hand, is about to push us back into the walls of the ghetto? Who gave up all of Sinai in order to retain a civilised image? Beitar's governor in Poland, that proud man Menahem Begin. So you can never tell. I only know one thing for sure: as long as you are fighting for your life all is permitted, even to drive out all the Arabs from the West Bank, everything.
"Leibowitz is right, we are Judeo-Nazis, and why not? Listen, a people that gave itself up to be slaughtered, a people that let soap to be made of its children and lamp shades from the skin of its women is a worse criminal than its murderers. Worse than the Nazis...If your nice civilised parents had come here in time instead of writing books about the love for humanity and singing Hear O Israel on the way to the gas chambers, now don't be shocked, if they instead had killed six million Arabs here or even one million, what would have happened? Sure, two or three nasty pages would have been written in the history books, we would have been called all sorts of names, but we could be here today as a people of 25 million!
"Even today I am willing to volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have everyone hate us, to pull the rug from underneath the feet of the Diaspora Jews, so that they will be forced to run to us crying. Even if it means blowing up one or two synagogues here and there, I don't care. And I don't mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal. Then you can spruce up your Jewish conscience and enter the respectable club of civilised nations, nations that are large and healthy. What you lot don't understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it. True, it could have been finished in 1948, but you interfered, you stopped it. And all this because of the Jewishness in your souls, because of your Diaspora mentality. For the Jews don't grasp things quickly. If you open your eyes and look around the world you will see that darkness is falling again. And we know what happens to a Jew who stays out in the dark. So I am glad that this small war in Lebanon frightened the Yids. Let them be afraid, let them suffer. They should hurry home before it gets really dark. So I am an anti-Semite ? Fine. So don't quote me, quote Lilienblum instead [an early Russian Zionist - ed.]. There is no need to quote an anti-Semite. Quote Lilienblum, and he is definitely not an anti-Semite, there is even a street in Tel Aviv named after him. (C. quotes from a small notebook that was lying on his table when I arrived:) 'Is all that is happening not a clear sign that our forefathers and ourselves...wanted and still want to be disgraced? That we enjoy living like gypsies.' That's Lilienblum. Not me. Believe me. I went through the Zionist literature, I can prove what I say.
"And you can write that I am disgrace to humanity, I don't mind, on the contrary. Let's make a deal: I will do all I can to expel the Arabs from here, I will do all I can to increase anti-semitism, and you will write poems and essays about the misery of the Arabs and be prepared to absorb the Yids I will force to flee to this country and teach them to be a light unto the gentiles. How about it ?"
It was there that I stopped C.'s monologue for a moment and expressed the thought passing through my mind, perhaps more for myself than for my host. Was it possible that Hitler had not only hurt the Jews but also poisoned their minds? Had that poison sunk in and was still active? But not even that idea could cause C. to protest or raise his voice. After all, he said to have never shouted under stress, even during the famous operations his name is associated with..."
By Amos Oz
"You can call me anything you like. Call me a monster or a murderer. Just note that I don't hate Arabs. On the contrary. Personally, I am much more at ease with them, and especially with the Bedouin, than with Jews. Those Arabs we haven't yet spoilt are proud people, they are irrational, cruel and generous. It's the Yids that are all twisted. In order to straighten them out you have to first bend them sharply the other way. That, in brief, is my whole ideology.
"Call Israel by any name you like, call it a Judeo-Nazi state as does Leibowitz. Why not? Better a live Judeo-Nazi than a dead saint. I don't care whether I am like Ghadafi. I am not after the admiration of the gentiles. I don't need their love. I don't need to be loved by Jews like you either. I have to live, and I intend to ensure that my children will live as well. With or without the blessing of the Pope and the other religious leaders from the New York Times. I will destroy anyone who will raise a hand against my children, I will destroy him and his children, with or without our famous purity of arms. I don't care if he is Christian, Muslim, Jewish or pagan. History teaches us that he who won't kill will be killed by others. That is an iron law.
"Even if you'll prove to me by mathematical means that the present war in Lebanon is a dirty immoral war, I don't care. Moreover, even if you will prove to me that we have not achieved and will not achieve any of our aims in Lebanon, that we will neither create a friendly regime in Lebanon nor destroy the Syrians or even the PLO, even then I don't care. It was still worth it. Even if Galilee is shelled again by Katyushas in a year's time, I don't really care. We shall start another war, kill and destroy more and more, until they will have had enough. And do you know why it is all worth it? Because it seems that this war has made us more unpopular among the so-called civilised world.
"We'll hear no more of that nonsense about the unique Jewish morality, the moral lessons of the holocaust or about the Jews who were supposed to have emerged from the gas chambers pure and virtuous. No more of that. The destruction of Eyn Hilwe (and it's a pity we did not wipe out that hornet's nest completely!), the healthy bombardment of Beirut and that tiny massacre (can you call 500 Arabs a massacre?) in their camps which we should have committed with our own delicate hands rather than let the Phalangists do it, all these good deeds finally killed the bullshit talk about a unique people and of being a light upon the nations. No more uniqueness and no more sweetness and light. Good riddance."
"I personally don't want to be any better than Khomeini or Brezhnev or Ghadafi or Assad or Mrs. Thatcher, or even Harry Truman who killed half a million Japanese with two fine bombs. I only want to be smarter than they are, quicker and more efficient, not better or more beautiful than they are. Tell me, do the baddies of this world have a bad time? If anyone tries to touch them, the evil men cut his hands and legs off. They hunt and catch whatever they feel like eating. They don't suffer from indigestion and are not punished by Heaven. I want Israel to join that club. Maybe the world will then at last begin to fear me instead of feeling sorry for me. Maybe they will start to tremble, to fear my madness instead of admiring my nobility. Thank god for that. Let them tremble, let them call us a mad state. Let them understand that we are a wild country, dangerous to our surroundings, not normal, that we might go crazy if one of our children is murdered - just one! That we might go wild and burn all the oil fields in the Middle East! If anything would happen to your child, god forbid, you would talk like I do. Let them be aware in Washington, Moscow, Damascus and China that if one of our ambassadors is shot, or even a consul or the most junior embassy official, we might start World War Three just like that !" ......We are talking while sitting on the balcony of the pretty country house belonging to C. which is situated in a prosperous Moshav. To the west we see a burning sunset and there is a scent of fruit trees in the air. We are being served iced coffee in tall glasses. C. is about fifty years old. He is a man well known for his (military) actions. He is a strong, heavy figure wearing shorts but no shirt. His body is tanned a metallic bronze shade, the colour of a blond man living in the sun. He puts his hairy legs on the table and his hands on the chair. There is a scar on his neck. His eyes wander over his plantations. He spells out his ideology in a voice made hoarse by too much smoking:
"Let me tell me [sic] what is the most important thing, the sweetest fruit of the war in Lebanon: It is that now they don't just hate Israel. Thanks to us, they now also hate all those Feinschmecker Jews in Paris, London, New York, Frankfurt and Montreal, in all their holes. At last they hate all these nice Yids, who say they are different from us, that they are not Israeli thugs, that they are different Jews, clean and decent. Just like the assimilated Jew in Vienna and Berlin begged the anti-Semite not to confuse him with the screaming, stinking Ostjude, who had smuggled himself into that cultural environment out of the dirty ghettos of Ukraine and Poland. It won't help them, those clean Yids, just as it did not help them in Vienna and Berlin. Let them shout that they condemn Israel, that they are all right, that they did not want and don't want to hurt a fly, that they always prefer being slaughtered to fighting, that they have taken it upon themselves to teach the gentiles how to be good Christians by always turning the other cheek. It won't do them any good. Now they are getting it there because of us, and I am telling you, it is a pleasure to watch.
"They are the same Yids who persuaded the gentiles to capitulate to the bastards in Vietnam, to give it in to Khomeini, to Brezhnev, to feel sorry for Sheikh Yamani because of his tough childhood, to make love not war. Or rather, to do neither, and instead write a thesis on love and war. We are through with all that. The Yid has been rejected, not only did he crucify Jesus, but he also crucified Arafat in Sabra and Shatila. They are being identified with us and that's a good thing! Their cemeteries are being desecrated, their synagogues are set on fire, all their old nicknames are being revived, they are being expelled from the best clubs, people shoot into their ethnic restaurants murdering small children, forcing them to remove any sign showing them to be Jews, forcing them to move and change their profession.
"Soon their palaces will be smeared with the slogan: Yids, go to Palestine! And you know what? They will go to Palestine because they will have no other choice! All this is a bonus we received from the Lebanese war. Tell me, wasn't it worth it?
"Soon we will hit on good times. The Jews will start arriving, the Israelis will stop emigrating and those who already emigrated will
return. Those who had chosen assimilation will finally understand that it won't help them to try and be the conscience of the world. The 'conscience of the world' will have to understand through its arse what it could not get into its head. The gentiles have always felt sick of the Yids and their conscience, and now the Yids will have only one option: to come home, all of them, fast, to install thick steel doors, to build a strong fence, to have submachine guns positioned at every corner of their fence here and to fight like devils against anyone who dares to make a sound in this region. And if anyone even raises his hand against us we'll take away half his land and burn the other half, including the oil. We might use nuclear arms. We'll go on until he no longer feels like it...
"...You probably want to know whether I am not afraid of the masses of Yids coming here to escape anti-semitism smearing us with their olive oil until we go all soft like them. Listen, history is funny in that way, there is a dialectic here, irony. Who was it who expanded the state of Israel almost up the boundaries of the kingdom of King David? Who expanded the state until it covered the area from Mount Hermon to Raz Muhammad? Levi Eshkol. Of all people, it was that follower of Gordon, that softie, that old woman. Who, on the other hand, is about to push us back into the walls of the ghetto? Who gave up all of Sinai in order to retain a civilised image? Beitar's governor in Poland, that proud man Menahem Begin. So you can never tell. I only know one thing for sure: as long as you are fighting for your life all is permitted, even to drive out all the Arabs from the West Bank, everything.
"Leibowitz is right, we are Judeo-Nazis, and why not? Listen, a people that gave itself up to be slaughtered, a people that let soap to be made of its children and lamp shades from the skin of its women is a worse criminal than its murderers. Worse than the Nazis...If your nice civilised parents had come here in time instead of writing books about the love for humanity and singing Hear O Israel on the way to the gas chambers, now don't be shocked, if they instead had killed six million Arabs here or even one million, what would have happened? Sure, two or three nasty pages would have been written in the history books, we would have been called all sorts of names, but we could be here today as a people of 25 million!
"Even today I am willing to volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have everyone hate us, to pull the rug from underneath the feet of the Diaspora Jews, so that they will be forced to run to us crying. Even if it means blowing up one or two synagogues here and there, I don't care. And I don't mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal. Then you can spruce up your Jewish conscience and enter the respectable club of civilised nations, nations that are large and healthy. What you lot don't understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it. True, it could have been finished in 1948, but you interfered, you stopped it. And all this because of the Jewishness in your souls, because of your Diaspora mentality. For the Jews don't grasp things quickly. If you open your eyes and look around the world you will see that darkness is falling again. And we know what happens to a Jew who stays out in the dark. So I am glad that this small war in Lebanon frightened the Yids. Let them be afraid, let them suffer. They should hurry home before it gets really dark. So I am an anti-Semite ? Fine. So don't quote me, quote Lilienblum instead [an early Russian Zionist - ed.]. There is no need to quote an anti-Semite. Quote Lilienblum, and he is definitely not an anti-Semite, there is even a street in Tel Aviv named after him. (C. quotes from a small notebook that was lying on his table when I arrived:) 'Is all that is happening not a clear sign that our forefathers and ourselves...wanted and still want to be disgraced? That we enjoy living like gypsies.' That's Lilienblum. Not me. Believe me. I went through the Zionist literature, I can prove what I say.
"And you can write that I am disgrace to humanity, I don't mind, on the contrary. Let's make a deal: I will do all I can to expel the Arabs from here, I will do all I can to increase anti-semitism, and you will write poems and essays about the misery of the Arabs and be prepared to absorb the Yids I will force to flee to this country and teach them to be a light unto the gentiles. How about it ?"
It was there that I stopped C.'s monologue for a moment and expressed the thought passing through my mind, perhaps more for myself than for my host. Was it possible that Hitler had not only hurt the Jews but also poisoned their minds? Had that poison sunk in and was still active? But not even that idea could cause C. to protest or raise his voice. After all, he said to have never shouted under stress, even during the famous operations his name is associated with..."
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That's a 23-year old interview. One could also quote far far worse from Arafat or Sadat (who stated he was willing to sacrifice 1 million Egyptian soldiers to destroy Israel).
Here's an excert from a much more current and relevant interview with Sharon:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=283284&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
Israeli PM Sharon: 'Iraq war created an opportunity with the Palestinians we can't miss' By Ari Shavit
The year that has passed since the Passover eve massacre at the hotel in Netanya was his greatest year. He responded to the crescendo of terrorism with military might - Operation Defensive Shield - and with political moderation (the confrontation with Benjamin Netanyahu at the Likud Central Committee meeting). In his mid-seventies he achieved unprecedented popularity because he proved so adept at maneuvering within the Bush-Arafat-Netanyahu triangle.
It was the solid backing of the president of the United States that made it possible for him to imprison Arafat in the Muqata and Netanyahu in the treasury. However, the suspicion is looming now that the year of grace is drawing to a close; that it is Bush who is about to imprison Sharon himself in the road map. So things are very tense these days in the Prime Minister's Bureau. Quiet, but tense.
…Prime Minister Sharon, we are at an astonishing historic moment. The reality around us is changing radically. From your point of view, is the new reality in the Middle East after the fall of Iraq promising or dangerous?
…”we face the possibility that a different period will begin here. The move carried out in Iraq generated a shock through the Middle East and it brings with it a prospect of great changes. There is an opportunity here to forge a different relationship between us and the Arab states, and between us and the Palestinians. That opportunity must not be neglected. I intend to examine these things with all seriousness."
Do you think there is a prospect of reaching a settlement in the foreseeable future?
"That depends first and foremost on the Arabs. It obligates a different type of leadership - a battle against terrorism and a series of reforms. It obligates the absolute cessation of the incitement and the dismantling of all terrorist organizations. But if there will be a leadership that understands these things and will carry them out seriously, the possibility of reaching a settlement exists."
Do you consider Abu Mazen a leader with whom you will be able to reach a settlement?
"Abu Mazen understands that it is impossible to vanquish Israel by means of terrorism."
One day very soon the telephone might ring. The president of the United States will be on the line. He will tell you, “Arik, I have removed an existential threat from Israel, I am fomenting a revolution throughout the region. Now the time has come for you to make your contribution. Let's have Netzarim, please."
"There are some matters regarding which we will be ready to take far-reaching steps. We will be ready to carry out very painful steps. But there is one thing that I told President Bush a number of times - I made no concessions in the past, and I will make no concessions now, or ever make concessions in the future, with regard to anything that is related to the security of Israel. I explained to President Bush and made it clear to him that this is the historic responsibility that I bear for the future and the fate of the Jewish people. You should know this - on this subject there will be no concessions. We will be the ones who in the end decide what is dangerous for Israel and what is not dangerous for Israel."
And what about Netzarim? [An isolated settlement in the Gaza Strip]
"I don't want to get into a discussion of any specific place now. This is a delicate subject and there is no need to talk a lot about it. But if it turns out that we have someone to talk to, that they understand that peace is neither terrorism nor subversion against Israel, then I would definitely say that we will have to take steps that are painful for every Jew and painful for me personally."
Isn't that phrase "painful concessions" a hollow expression?
"Definitely not. It comes from the depth of my soul. Look, we are talking about the cradle of the Jewish people. Our whole history is bound up with these places. Bethlehem, Shiloh, Beit El. And I know that we will have to part with some of these places. There will be a parting from places that are connected to the whole course of our history. As a Jew, this agonizes me. But I have decided to make every effort to reach a settlement. I feel that the rational necessity to reach a settlement is overcoming my feelings."
You established the settlements and you believed in the settlements and nurtured them. Are you now prepared to consider the evacuation of isolated settlements?
"If we reach a situation of true peace, real peace, peace for generations, we will have to make painful concessions. Not in exchange for promises, but rather in exchange for peace."
Some people expect you to be an Israeli [Charles] de Gaulle - a national leader, a general, who at a certain point understands that reality has changed and turns his back on part of his own history and creates a dramatic historical turning point. Do you have any such aspirations?
"One has to remember one thing about the comparison with de Gaulle - `Algeria' is here. It is not a few hundred kilometers away. The required measure of caution here is therefore much greater."
But I am asking about you. Do you want to be remembered as the one who spearheaded such a dramatic change?
"Let me tell you something. I am determined to make a real effort to reach a real agreement. I think that anyone who saw the tremendous thing called the State of Israel in the making possibly understands things better and knows better how to reach a solution. That is why I think that this task rests with my generation, which was privileged to live through one of the most dramatic periods in the history of the Jewish people.
"I am 75 years old. I have no political ambitions beyond the position I now hold. I feel that my goal and my purpose is to bring this nation to peace and security. That is why I am making tremendous efforts. I think that this is something that I have to leave behind me - to try to reach an agreement."
Have you really accepted the idea of to states for two peoples? Do you really plan to divide western Israel?
"I believe that this is what will happen. One has to view things realistically. Eventually there will be a Palestinian state. I view things first and foremost from our perspective. I do not think that we have to rule over another people and run their lives. I do not think that we have the strength for that. It is a very heavy burden on the public and it raises ethical problems and heavy economic problems."
Even so, under your leadership Israel went back to directly controlling Palestinian cities.
"Our stay in Jenin and in Nablus is temporary. Our presence in those cities was created in order to protect Israeli citizens from terrorist activities. It is not a situation that can persist."
In the past you talked about a long-term interim agreement. Did you not believe in a permanent solution and an end to the conflict?
"I think opportunities have currently been created that did not exist before. The Arab world in general and the Palestinians in particular have been shaken. There is therefore a chance to reach an agreement faster than people think."
The Israeli public chose you twice by a large majority because it wants you to repulse Yasser Arafat and beat him. Have you done that?
"I think that one of our successes is that we opened many people's eyes to the true nature of the Palestinian Authority and the nature of the person who heads it, making him irrelevant. When I used that phrase in the past it shocked many of our supporters, mainly those who write and express themselves. But in the end, Arafat became irrelevant."
…Is your willingness to recognize a Palestinian state conditional on the Palestinians backing down from their demand for the right of return?
"If there is ever to be an end to the conflict the Palestinians must recognize the Jewish people's right to a homeland and the existence of an independent Jewish state in the homeland of the Jewish people. I feel that this is a condition for what is called an end to the conflict. This is not a simple thing. Even in the agreements we signed with Egypt and Jordan this was impossible. That is why they did bring about an end to the conflict. They are important agreements, very important, but they did not bring about an end to the conflict. The end of the conflict will come only with the arrival of the recognition of the Jewish people's right to its homeland.”
…Do you feel that the dark and violent period of the past three years is ending?
"I will make every effort to make it end. I do not intend to be passive. The moment a Palestinian state forms I plan to begin working with it. I will not wait for the telephone to ring."
Here's an excert from a much more current and relevant interview with Sharon:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=283284&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
Israeli PM Sharon: 'Iraq war created an opportunity with the Palestinians we can't miss' By Ari Shavit
The year that has passed since the Passover eve massacre at the hotel in Netanya was his greatest year. He responded to the crescendo of terrorism with military might - Operation Defensive Shield - and with political moderation (the confrontation with Benjamin Netanyahu at the Likud Central Committee meeting). In his mid-seventies he achieved unprecedented popularity because he proved so adept at maneuvering within the Bush-Arafat-Netanyahu triangle.
It was the solid backing of the president of the United States that made it possible for him to imprison Arafat in the Muqata and Netanyahu in the treasury. However, the suspicion is looming now that the year of grace is drawing to a close; that it is Bush who is about to imprison Sharon himself in the road map. So things are very tense these days in the Prime Minister's Bureau. Quiet, but tense.
…Prime Minister Sharon, we are at an astonishing historic moment. The reality around us is changing radically. From your point of view, is the new reality in the Middle East after the fall of Iraq promising or dangerous?
…”we face the possibility that a different period will begin here. The move carried out in Iraq generated a shock through the Middle East and it brings with it a prospect of great changes. There is an opportunity here to forge a different relationship between us and the Arab states, and between us and the Palestinians. That opportunity must not be neglected. I intend to examine these things with all seriousness."
Do you think there is a prospect of reaching a settlement in the foreseeable future?
"That depends first and foremost on the Arabs. It obligates a different type of leadership - a battle against terrorism and a series of reforms. It obligates the absolute cessation of the incitement and the dismantling of all terrorist organizations. But if there will be a leadership that understands these things and will carry them out seriously, the possibility of reaching a settlement exists."
Do you consider Abu Mazen a leader with whom you will be able to reach a settlement?
"Abu Mazen understands that it is impossible to vanquish Israel by means of terrorism."
One day very soon the telephone might ring. The president of the United States will be on the line. He will tell you, “Arik, I have removed an existential threat from Israel, I am fomenting a revolution throughout the region. Now the time has come for you to make your contribution. Let's have Netzarim, please."
"There are some matters regarding which we will be ready to take far-reaching steps. We will be ready to carry out very painful steps. But there is one thing that I told President Bush a number of times - I made no concessions in the past, and I will make no concessions now, or ever make concessions in the future, with regard to anything that is related to the security of Israel. I explained to President Bush and made it clear to him that this is the historic responsibility that I bear for the future and the fate of the Jewish people. You should know this - on this subject there will be no concessions. We will be the ones who in the end decide what is dangerous for Israel and what is not dangerous for Israel."
And what about Netzarim? [An isolated settlement in the Gaza Strip]
"I don't want to get into a discussion of any specific place now. This is a delicate subject and there is no need to talk a lot about it. But if it turns out that we have someone to talk to, that they understand that peace is neither terrorism nor subversion against Israel, then I would definitely say that we will have to take steps that are painful for every Jew and painful for me personally."
Isn't that phrase "painful concessions" a hollow expression?
"Definitely not. It comes from the depth of my soul. Look, we are talking about the cradle of the Jewish people. Our whole history is bound up with these places. Bethlehem, Shiloh, Beit El. And I know that we will have to part with some of these places. There will be a parting from places that are connected to the whole course of our history. As a Jew, this agonizes me. But I have decided to make every effort to reach a settlement. I feel that the rational necessity to reach a settlement is overcoming my feelings."
You established the settlements and you believed in the settlements and nurtured them. Are you now prepared to consider the evacuation of isolated settlements?
"If we reach a situation of true peace, real peace, peace for generations, we will have to make painful concessions. Not in exchange for promises, but rather in exchange for peace."
Some people expect you to be an Israeli [Charles] de Gaulle - a national leader, a general, who at a certain point understands that reality has changed and turns his back on part of his own history and creates a dramatic historical turning point. Do you have any such aspirations?
"One has to remember one thing about the comparison with de Gaulle - `Algeria' is here. It is not a few hundred kilometers away. The required measure of caution here is therefore much greater."
But I am asking about you. Do you want to be remembered as the one who spearheaded such a dramatic change?
"Let me tell you something. I am determined to make a real effort to reach a real agreement. I think that anyone who saw the tremendous thing called the State of Israel in the making possibly understands things better and knows better how to reach a solution. That is why I think that this task rests with my generation, which was privileged to live through one of the most dramatic periods in the history of the Jewish people.
"I am 75 years old. I have no political ambitions beyond the position I now hold. I feel that my goal and my purpose is to bring this nation to peace and security. That is why I am making tremendous efforts. I think that this is something that I have to leave behind me - to try to reach an agreement."
Have you really accepted the idea of to states for two peoples? Do you really plan to divide western Israel?
"I believe that this is what will happen. One has to view things realistically. Eventually there will be a Palestinian state. I view things first and foremost from our perspective. I do not think that we have to rule over another people and run their lives. I do not think that we have the strength for that. It is a very heavy burden on the public and it raises ethical problems and heavy economic problems."
Even so, under your leadership Israel went back to directly controlling Palestinian cities.
"Our stay in Jenin and in Nablus is temporary. Our presence in those cities was created in order to protect Israeli citizens from terrorist activities. It is not a situation that can persist."
In the past you talked about a long-term interim agreement. Did you not believe in a permanent solution and an end to the conflict?
"I think opportunities have currently been created that did not exist before. The Arab world in general and the Palestinians in particular have been shaken. There is therefore a chance to reach an agreement faster than people think."
The Israeli public chose you twice by a large majority because it wants you to repulse Yasser Arafat and beat him. Have you done that?
"I think that one of our successes is that we opened many people's eyes to the true nature of the Palestinian Authority and the nature of the person who heads it, making him irrelevant. When I used that phrase in the past it shocked many of our supporters, mainly those who write and express themselves. But in the end, Arafat became irrelevant."
…Is your willingness to recognize a Palestinian state conditional on the Palestinians backing down from their demand for the right of return?
"If there is ever to be an end to the conflict the Palestinians must recognize the Jewish people's right to a homeland and the existence of an independent Jewish state in the homeland of the Jewish people. I feel that this is a condition for what is called an end to the conflict. This is not a simple thing. Even in the agreements we signed with Egypt and Jordan this was impossible. That is why they did bring about an end to the conflict. They are important agreements, very important, but they did not bring about an end to the conflict. The end of the conflict will come only with the arrival of the recognition of the Jewish people's right to its homeland.”
…Do you feel that the dark and violent period of the past three years is ending?
"I will make every effort to make it end. I do not intend to be passive. The moment a Palestinian state forms I plan to begin working with it. I will not wait for the telephone to ring."
psychopathic personality - 1a. an individual with a clear perception of reality except for the individual's social and moral obligations, whose behavior is largely amoral and asocial and who is characterized by irresponsibility, lack of remorse or shame, perverse or impulsive (often criminal) behavior, and other serious personality defects, generally without psychotic attacks or symptoms.
lets find a current interview with arafat that show cases him in a flattering light.
Arafat is a pathological liar; we signed 72 ceasefires with him in a span of 18 months in 1975-1976, and he broke each and every one of them, whenever he felt that the balance of power was shifting to his advantage.
To refresh the memory, he is quoted to have said: "I am ready to kill for the sake of my cause; wouldn't I lie for it?"
To refresh the memory, he is quoted to have said: "I am ready to kill for the sake of my cause; wouldn't I lie for it?"
But so what? Nothing arafat, or anybody else, did can justify the crimes of the Zionist aggressors.
Stalin was a scumbag, too. Did that justify what Hitler did to the people of the Soviet Union, Jews included?
Stalin was a scumbag, too. Did that justify what Hitler did to the people of the Soviet Union, Jews included?
The Zionists were not the aggressors.
The aggressors were the Arabs who didn't wish to see the Jews equally coexist with them.
See:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/07/1624607.php
The aggressors were the Arabs who didn't wish to see the Jews equally coexist with them.
See:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/07/1624607.php
no excuse for the settlements.
No excuse.
it's against international law, and the setters are just as crazy as the islamists.
Freedom is never voluntarily given by the Oppressor. It must be demanded by the Oppressed.
MLK jr.
No excuse.
it's against international law, and the setters are just as crazy as the islamists.
Freedom is never voluntarily given by the Oppressor. It must be demanded by the Oppressed.
MLK jr.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/3016
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/3024
EDITOR'S COMMENT:
A quick follow up to the article I sent out yesterday by Holger Jensen [fired for not doing some basic fact checking on this story] that attributed a scathing anti-Arab quote to Ariel Sharon:
1. The English magazine, The Spectator, published a letter from Amos Oz, the
reporter who supposedly heard Sharon utter the flagrant anti-Arab
sentiments, and Oz says he has never met or interviewed Sharon.
2. Another Spectator reader indicated that the interview took place, but it was with "a nameless extremist" that Oz has never identified. According to this reader, Oz "has yet to produce any evidence that his anonymous fanatic ever existed".
3. The paper that reportedly published the interview on Dec. 17, 1982 -- "the daily Davar" -- apparently folded many years ago and, as far as I can tell, there are no online archives of past issues (if anyone knows where an original version of this article can be viewed, drop me a line).
Thanks to Garth Godsman for pointing me in the direction of this
information.
--- David Sunfellow
------------
LETTERS FROM READERS
The Spectator
April 13, 2002
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=back&issue=2002-04
-13&id=1768
Readers respond to recent articles published in The Spectator and pose
questions to the editor of The Spectator.co.uk:
STRANGE MEETING
From Mr. Amos Oz
Sir: Concerning Paul Gottfried's article ('Extremism in the defence of
liberty', 6 April) about my 'interview with Ariel Sharon', I have one
important thing to say to Mr Gottfried. I have never interviewed Ariel
Sharon. I have never met Ariel Sharon.
Amos Oz
Arad, Israel
...........
From Mr Paul Bogdanor
Sir: The vile terrorist statements which Paul Gottfried attributes to Ariel
Sharon were never uttered by him. They were made by a nameless extremist
interviewed by the left-wing Israeli novelist Amos Oz, though Oz has yet to
produce any evidence that his anonymous fanatic ever existed.
There are, however, many authentic examples of murderous rhetoric in the
ArabIsraeli conflict. For example, as the Arab armies invaded Israel in
1948, the secretary-general of the Arab League declared, 'This will be a war
of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the
Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.' More recently, Syria has looked
forward to the day when 'the unjust, criminal Israeli terrorists breathe
their last by Arab bullets or Arab knives' (Radio Damascus, 23 March 1995).
Iraq has warned that 'the idea of throwing the Israelis into the sea is not
good enough, since the Jews know how to swim and will survive' (Babel, Iraq,
4 June 1995).
Meanwhile, Hamas proclaims, 'The time will not come until Muslims will fight
the Jews and kill them; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which
will cry: "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!"'
(Hamas charter, Article 7).
Now that Israelis are the victims of daily massacres as a result of their
concessions to the PLO, it is especially important to identify the true
advocates of genocide in the Middle East.
Paul Bogdanor
London EC1
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/3024
EDITOR'S COMMENT:
A quick follow up to the article I sent out yesterday by Holger Jensen [fired for not doing some basic fact checking on this story] that attributed a scathing anti-Arab quote to Ariel Sharon:
1. The English magazine, The Spectator, published a letter from Amos Oz, the
reporter who supposedly heard Sharon utter the flagrant anti-Arab
sentiments, and Oz says he has never met or interviewed Sharon.
2. Another Spectator reader indicated that the interview took place, but it was with "a nameless extremist" that Oz has never identified. According to this reader, Oz "has yet to produce any evidence that his anonymous fanatic ever existed".
3. The paper that reportedly published the interview on Dec. 17, 1982 -- "the daily Davar" -- apparently folded many years ago and, as far as I can tell, there are no online archives of past issues (if anyone knows where an original version of this article can be viewed, drop me a line).
Thanks to Garth Godsman for pointing me in the direction of this
information.
--- David Sunfellow
------------
LETTERS FROM READERS
The Spectator
April 13, 2002
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=back&issue=2002-04
-13&id=1768
Readers respond to recent articles published in The Spectator and pose
questions to the editor of The Spectator.co.uk:
STRANGE MEETING
From Mr. Amos Oz
Sir: Concerning Paul Gottfried's article ('Extremism in the defence of
liberty', 6 April) about my 'interview with Ariel Sharon', I have one
important thing to say to Mr Gottfried. I have never interviewed Ariel
Sharon. I have never met Ariel Sharon.
Amos Oz
Arad, Israel
...........
From Mr Paul Bogdanor
Sir: The vile terrorist statements which Paul Gottfried attributes to Ariel
Sharon were never uttered by him. They were made by a nameless extremist
interviewed by the left-wing Israeli novelist Amos Oz, though Oz has yet to
produce any evidence that his anonymous fanatic ever existed.
There are, however, many authentic examples of murderous rhetoric in the
ArabIsraeli conflict. For example, as the Arab armies invaded Israel in
1948, the secretary-general of the Arab League declared, 'This will be a war
of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the
Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.' More recently, Syria has looked
forward to the day when 'the unjust, criminal Israeli terrorists breathe
their last by Arab bullets or Arab knives' (Radio Damascus, 23 March 1995).
Iraq has warned that 'the idea of throwing the Israelis into the sea is not
good enough, since the Jews know how to swim and will survive' (Babel, Iraq,
4 June 1995).
Meanwhile, Hamas proclaims, 'The time will not come until Muslims will fight
the Jews and kill them; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which
will cry: "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!"'
(Hamas charter, Article 7).
Now that Israelis are the victims of daily massacres as a result of their
concessions to the PLO, it is especially important to identify the true
advocates of genocide in the Middle East.
Paul Bogdanor
London EC1
thank you for doing your part on behalf of the Zionist entity.
lies are justified when you are defending the cause, you will be rewarded with a noble peace prize as long and only as long as you follow orders.
sincerely-
zionazi elite
lies are justified when you are defending the cause, you will be rewarded with a noble peace prize as long and only as long as you follow orders.
sincerely-
zionazi elite
Oh shut up, you retarded freak.
hamas and their like are the scum of the earth. they're sick, crazed jew-hating bastards who actually consider it an honor to die while taking jews off earth. That's why israel needs to keep everyone under control. When hamas and islamic jihad and the other scumbag sick lunatic groups are dead, or under control, or broken up, israel can be nice.
Israel does not have to be nice, Israel just has to be fair, there by removing the reason the Palestinian People have to fight..
There are some 5,000,000 Israelis...
There are millions of Palestinians (I cannot seem to find an acurate number, (DOES ANYONE KNOW, PLEASE POST)...
Many Arab Nations have said they would recognize Israel if they allowed the Palestinian People to have their State in the West Bank and Gaza.
But how can the Palestinian People have their state with their land being a carved up mess because of the Israeli Settlements.
Gaza and West Bank is 22% of what is TODAY Israel West Bank and Gaza, this is not to much to ask for millions of Palestinian People, so that they may live in peace and freedom from oppression and occupation.
A Picture is worth a thousand words:
CLICK HERE > http://mondediplo.com/maps/IMG/artoff3260.jpg
For a Possible Solution where both side win:
CLICK HERE > http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/06/1618616.php
There are some 5,000,000 Israelis...
There are millions of Palestinians (I cannot seem to find an acurate number, (DOES ANYONE KNOW, PLEASE POST)...
Many Arab Nations have said they would recognize Israel if they allowed the Palestinian People to have their State in the West Bank and Gaza.
But how can the Palestinian People have their state with their land being a carved up mess because of the Israeli Settlements.
Gaza and West Bank is 22% of what is TODAY Israel West Bank and Gaza, this is not to much to ask for millions of Palestinian People, so that they may live in peace and freedom from oppression and occupation.
A Picture is worth a thousand words:
CLICK HERE > http://mondediplo.com/maps/IMG/artoff3260.jpg
For a Possible Solution where both side win:
CLICK HERE > http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/06/1618616.php
after Turkey's defeat in World War I. At that time, thousands of Arabs, from Egypt, Syria and Saudi Arabia flooded into Palestine to work on the new factories and cooperative farms that the Jewsish settlers had created. Those new Arab immigrants are the "s," the grandchildren of farm laborers who came from Egypt, Jordan and Syria, where they were not wanted...not, as they would have the western media believe, people who have lived in the region "for generations."
Some Arabs had resided in this region for several hundred years (and the nomadic Bedouin, who are not considered "Palestinian Arabs", may have been in the Sinai/Negev deserts for a few hundred years more). But in the 19th century this already small population was in steady decline. See:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/06/1623475.php
As the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica notes, there were many different Arab and Muslim communities present, many of the recent immigrants still easily distinguishable from each other. Just as in the US there were Irish Americans, German Americans and Italian Americans (amongst others) and they lived in separate and easily distinguishable communities.
There was tremendous growth in the Arab population of Mandate Palestine between the world wars, and primarily in the areas being developed by Jews (290% in Haifa, but 42% in Nablus). Whereas Jewish immigration was limited and restricted, ARAB IMMIGRANTS entered the country at will across long and unpatrolled borders. In fact, until 1939 the British didn't even keep statistics of Arabs entering western Palestine from eastern (Trans-Jordanian) Palestine.
This makes it easy to understand why 90% of "illegal immigrants" caught by the British Police were not Jews but Arabs.
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/06/1623475.php
As the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica notes, there were many different Arab and Muslim communities present, many of the recent immigrants still easily distinguishable from each other. Just as in the US there were Irish Americans, German Americans and Italian Americans (amongst others) and they lived in separate and easily distinguishable communities.
There was tremendous growth in the Arab population of Mandate Palestine between the world wars, and primarily in the areas being developed by Jews (290% in Haifa, but 42% in Nablus). Whereas Jewish immigration was limited and restricted, ARAB IMMIGRANTS entered the country at will across long and unpatrolled borders. In fact, until 1939 the British didn't even keep statistics of Arabs entering western Palestine from eastern (Trans-Jordanian) Palestine.
This makes it easy to understand why 90% of "illegal immigrants" caught by the British Police were not Jews but Arabs.
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