BBC accused by Israel of AntiSemitism

The gassing of Palestinians is corroborated by the below video and testimony from a French physician (Dr. Helen Bruzau) and an American filmographer (James B. Longley).

According to James B. Longley those affected reeled in excruciating, unending agony for days, some as long as a month.

This was not reported in the US media which, if it were Arabs doing this to Israelis, you can just imagine the reaction.

VIDEO:

RealAudio metafile

---

French Physician on the scene describes the symptoms:
"The people we saw in the hospital, were mainly young people, exhibiting neurological manifestations: with hypertonic and choreoathetotic crisis in their limbs, spasms causing the body to stiffen, or worse: to go rigid in an arc position. This was followed by episodes of muscle relaxation: Nearly complete paralysis of the limbs, with hypertonia and also digestive pains like cramps and colics, and behavioral distresses; periods of extreme excitation, that kind of trouble."
-Dr. Helen Bruzau
Medecins Sans Frontieres

---

"As I made my way through the wards of Amal and Nasser Hospitals that day and for many days afterward, I observed many patients that had been brought to the hospitals suffering from these symptoms [from tear gas laced with poison gas]. Room after room, women, children, men. Some were vomiting. Some alternated between a coma-like state and violent convulsions, their entire bodies twisting and arching, members of their families struggling to hold them down on the beds. On and on, for days. One boy, who had inhaled a large amount of the gas in question, suffered in the hospital for an entire month with recurrent convulsions. It is difficult to describe the sensation of sitting in a room for hours and days with people suffering so terribly, and knowing that this was done by human beings."

"The incident went largely unreported. No articles were written in major US newspapers. Fox News and 60 Minutes did not produce special reports. The story gradually grew old and fell through the cracks. Out of sight and out of mind – and who would believe that the Israeli military would do such a thing to civilians in a refugee camp? Olivier Rafowicz, an Israeli Army spokesman, was furious that I even dared to ask him about the gas when I interviewed him in Tel Aviv on April 10, and he repeated the same angry denials. I did not tell him what I had witnessed and filmed. I make these transcripts available in order to set the record straight. I filmed many other interviews with patients, doctors, etc., but the accounts tend to vary only in the details."
-James B. Longley
212-898-0472
james@littleredbutton.com

This was of course totally ignored by our media. Now imagine the reaction if Arabs had done this to Israelis.

www.littleredbutton.com/gas_interviews/

www.littleredbutton.com/gas_interviews/interviews.pdf

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Athens, Oct 29, IRNA -- Israeli occupation troops on Sunday shot tear gas canisters into classrooms at a West Bank village, seriously suffocating scores of children, said a dispatch from al-Qods.

Palestinian sources said heavily armed Israeli soldiers raided the primary school at the village of T'ku, near Bethlehem, and shot several tear-gas shells inside class rooms in the school yard.

The sources said over 24 children suffered from gas inhalation and required hospitalization. Palestinian medical sources said the type of tear-gas used by Israeli occupation troops against Palestinian children differs from the standard tear-gas used around the world in dispersing demonstrations.

A spokesman for the Palestinian Health Ministry said the type used by Israel is a semi-poisonous gas that leaves strong aftereffects, including spasmodic reactions, nervous reactions as well as strong abdominal pains. Moreover, the use of the tear-gas in closed areas, such as classrooms, exacerbates its effect and could result in death. KA/NK/HR END ::irna 29/10/2000 21:45

---

Article by James Brooks on gassing of Palestinians:
Part I
Part II

Dragging out the old "anti semitic" bit again, hmm? That's worked in the past to cover up the misdeeds of the "little terrorisrt state that does"!

"All Israeli governments have exploited the memory of the holocaust to gain sympathy in their fight against the Palestinians", says Uri Avnery.

"Even today the holcaust is being used to prevent any criticism of Israel in Europe".

(See "Take Your Bag and Get Out", 01-04-01)
http:\\http://www.gush-shalom.org

Evidence? Who needs evidence! Some arabs who absolutely hate israel's guts SAYING IT with no evidence, more than good enough for me! I'm a dumbass!!!!!

Did you guys hear? Israelis also eat the blood of babies! It's true, some other arabs said that, too!

Perhaps this the correct one for anyone who wishes to read the entire article.

http:\\http://www.avnery.news.co.il/English

There are Photographic and live footage evidence which captured Israeli Soldiers spraying Palestinian Civilians with a gas agent.
The civilians had later experienced physical hardships that are associated with exposure to the gas agent the BBC news outlet had accused Israel of spraying on none armed Civilians.

Where is this evidence?

Sorry, word of mouth from palestinians who hate israel and will make up anything the moment the media asks them something isn't "evidence."

do your home work- ''where.''

you sound like bill clinton, denying that he ever got head from monica until he couldn't deny the evidence on her large blue dress.

what did he instruct monica to do?
"deny, deny, deny"...

she didn't but you definitely internilized this message.

(drumroll...) Attention, Ladies and Gentlemen! From the people who brought you WW1 AND WW2: A German newspaper has something negative to say about the Jews!

Oh, but wait folks, that's not all! A French organization is claiming that the Jews are involved in a poison gas conspiracy! It shouldn't suprise any of you in the audience, since the French know all about the uses of poisonous gas after the war, when they found out what had happened to their Jewish neighbors who had been taken away while they passively watched on. Oops!

The Palestinian People had nothing to do with the Holocaust...
So why are they being Punished by having their land confiscated and Homes demolished???
Being against the atrocities that Israel is committing against the Palestinian People has nothing to do with being anti Semitic, There are good Jewish people both outside Israel and Inside Israel (for instance the Refuseniks) who are against the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and the oppression of the Palestinian People. So a person would be anti Semitic only if they were against every Jewish Person instead of being just against the Jews who are oppressing the Palestinian People. I sure would not call a person who is against Ariel Sharon an anti Semite.
Why does Hamas and Fatah exist anyway?
Because the Palestinian do not have a superior army like that of the Israelis.
They need something for defense..
Defense from what you might ask????

If you care at all about this terrible situation take the time to read the following:
Click Here > http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=329333&group=webcast

Preview:
The Separation Wall - A Report from Yedioth Ahronot (english)
Michael McGehee 9:31am Sat Jun 28 '03 (Modified on 1:56am Sun Jun 29 '03)
article#329333
""See, not all Jews are bad! This was taken from the Yesh Gvul website, a group of brave jewish soldiers who refuse to serve in the "occupied territories.”"
"“The Separation Wall - A Report from Yedioth Ahronot”"

“”On the face of it, the logic hasn't changed: this fence is meant purely to prevent suicide bombers from infiltrating, not to set the country's borders. In practice, the fence's course has been changed over and over, each time biting off more of the West Bank. The settlers, who feared that the fence would be made on the Green Line and leave them outside the camp, can be pleased. Judging by the work already done and the Defense Ministry's maps, for a long time now the fence has not been along the Green Line but is a system of fences that will imprison hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in barbed wire-enclosed enclaves. The first stage of the fence already threatens to make extinct the livelihood of tens of thousands of Palestinians, after the fence swallowed up their land.””

To make this hideous fence worthless,
we must set the borders to the Palestinian State to pre 1967.

I would like to clarify for all you non-Hebrew speakers that the word "refusenik" in Hebrew refers specifically to Soviet-era Russian Jews who resisted the Soviet regime. In Israel, if you use the word "refusenik" in reference to soldiers who refuse to serve, no one will know what you are talking about.

http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp

http://oznik.com/

Take a look at the second post from the top.

In it you'll find a video preview of the movie "Gaza Strip" by James B. Longley. There is video footage of people reeling in agony from the gas attacks and even testimony from a French physician on the scene.

Somehow, though, I doubt that will be enough "evidence" for those who love Israel.

It should be noted that the current poison gas charge originated with -- Yasir Arafat. A month after his false charge that Israel was using radioactive materials against Palestinian Arabs. In CNN's story at the time, Nabil Shaath claimed that the PA is sending samples to an "international center for analysis".
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/02/15/arafat.gas/

Had the results shown that Israel was indeed using a poison gas, wouldn't the PA have made it widely known? But the power of the lie lives only as an allegation.

It's even possible that the PA didn't send the poison gas for analysis. Just like they don't want to test their claim that the "settlements" are illegal. The International Court of Justice could rule on this in short order, but it's not taken to court because the Arabs know they don't have a legal case. Thus the Arab argument is limited to the political parade and charade.

This story is just another falsehood that has been placed in the public domain, for the propagandists to pick up and repeat. And for the "useful idiots" to believe and regurgitate.

Just like the story about the Arab who was allegedly tortured to death and burned, except that 2 international forensics teams independently concluded that the man died in an auto accident (what a coincidence, this is what Israel said!). Oh, it should be noted that one of the forensic teams was hired by a Palestian Arab group, which promptly disregarded the findings and continued to parade their lies and allegations.

Curious that James Brooks thinly hides that Arafat is the source of this rumor, saying "Three days after the attacks began, the leader of the targeted people publicly alleged...". Arafat's name is never mentioned in the entire article. Hmmm.

If you track this story further, it didn't originate in 2001. Already in 1999 (before the intifada!) Suha Arafat had leveled this charge (followers of events in the mideast may recall that she did so with a silent Mrs. Clinton next to her). Mrs. Arafat went on to allege that the Jews were poisoning Arab wells, too....
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/hillary991112.html

The "poison gas" allegations lack any truth, just as "eyewitness" claims that 500-3000 civilians were executed in Jenin (where the death toll turned out to be 52, mostly fighters, and some of the civilians were killed by terrorist bombs, not the IDF). As confirmed by HRW, Amnesty International, and ultimately even the UN.

why should i give any creedence to your explanation of what the videos show?

I'm a self-employed person who works hard to make ends meet. Why?

Now tell us why the Iranian News agency quoting PLO sources and the Arafats is more objective than CNN or ABC news.

Tell us why the PA announced that it had sent samples of "poison" to an "international center for analysis" but 1) didn't name the center and 2) never announced positive results?

The only logical conclusion, as I already stated, is that A) either there was no poison or it wasn't sent to an unspecified lab or B) the result was negative.

That's a racist analysis. The people who brought you WWI AND WWII are dead. These Germans are different individuals. Blaming them for WWI and WWII is like blaming Jerry Seinfeld for the murder of Bobby Franks.

Nessie-nym: 'who do you work for "KL"?'

Congratulations, KL -- you've gotten to the point where, rather than answer your points, they just start insinuating you're a paid agent.

It's really despressing, sometimes, just how small their conceptual vocabulary is.

@%<

... sure, you have the time to come up with these kind of responses (on this thread and others), seemingly using inside information that other people do not have, all the while working hard doing whatever you do.

everybody on the IMC has an agenda. this is not the question, nor is there anything wrong with it. however, it's easy to tell those who present agenda's professionally and defend agenda's professionally and refute other agenda's professionally from those who simply have opinions, emotion, and some knowledge and facts.

so this is why i asked you who you "seemed" to work for. namely various pro-israel groups or lobbies. not that there's anything wrong with working for any of these groups. it's just that it would be nice if people would acknowledge where they're coming from sometimes, rather than pretending to be just some joe-schmoe posting some comments. and this would apply for the pro-palestinian groups as well.

but perhaps you're just an average person, such as myself.

anyways, as for the assertions in this thread, the gas used by the israeli's, even if it was just normal everyday tear gas, caused serious medical problems for a lot of people. i don't think it is unreasonable or unfair to investigate and ask why.

events like these are just one more reason for peace in that region, peace for both palestinians and israeli's. to continue to force the failed status quo of occupation and terrorist bombings to keep on failing will be a disaster for both palestinians and israeli's.

"And how about you, Gehrig. Who do you work for?"

According to this site, so far I work for the Mossad, the ADL, the SPLC, the IDF, the Jewish Mind Control Conspiracy, and the Zionist Thought Police.

@%<

"And how about you, Gehrig. Who do you work for?"

Sorry, I left one out: I also work for Satan.

@%<

thing: "however, it's easy to tell those who present agenda's professionally and defend agenda's professionally and refute other agenda's professionally from those who simply have opinions, emotion, and some knowledge and facts. "

"Good" doesn't mean "professional." It means "good." Some people are more eloquent than others, or better able to shape an argument. But those aren't exactly trade secrets; they're something anyone can develop with a little practice and a little discipline.

thing: " so this is why i asked you who you "seemed" to work for. namely various pro-israel groups or lobbies."

Sorry, but now you're just rewriting history. Your question was _not_ "Who do you seem to be working for, KL?"

@%<

> you have the time to come up with these kind of responses (on this thread and others)

I have academic training (some of which is in this field) and I don't just post trash off the top off my head (or mind-numbingly cut-and-paste propaganda from other sources). If only others would do so, instead of spending time incessantly posting the latest anti-Israel rumors found on the net, this could be a good site.

> seemingly using inside information that other people do not have

I have posted my sources, many of which have been of Arab origin (e.g. Malley & Agha, the PA's web-site) and other sites such as the UN and Yale University, As often as possible, I attempt to gather information from primary sources.

Unlike others here, I haven't pulled any rabbits out of a hat nor argued that "this one source" (unlike all others) tells you the real truth.

The problem "other people" have isn't a lack of access to this information, it's a lack of a rebuttal. It turns out that at the highest levels many Arab sources concede that which the agenda of the "anti-Zionist" posters here is to deny, convolute and obfuscate.

to gehrig:

fuck off. i wasn't talking to you.

- - - - - -

to "KL":

fine.

but there's enough obfuscation to go around for both sides.

as for the charge that the palestinians haven't produced any conclusive lab results, i'm sure that is probably true. why do i say this? because i can't figure out HOW the palestinians would even do this. gas dissipates and disappears into thin air. so i think their boast that they would get "a sample and analyze it" is simply that, just a heat of the moment boast that they should not have made, because there's no way they could get actually get a sample of gas that had already dissapeared into "the ether".

now, this does not mean that the event never happened. nor does it mean that people did not get very, very serious medical problems from this gas, which could have been simply tear gas, or maybe something else, used in this one situation for a reason, or perhaps as a mistake.

even if it was simply tear gas, the reactions are very severe. as i said before, it is not unreasonable to ask why people were convulsing upon exposure, rather than just coughing and tearing, as would be expected.

i think to assert that this event is bogus, that it never happened, that the serious medical problems never occurred, is just as obfuscatory as the palestinians saying they will "get a sample" of a poison gas they could not get.

In my opinion, Israel's supporters' denials (even when confronted with video evidence and eyewitness testimony) reeks of the same sort of fascism as Holocaust denial.

One of Israel's supporters main propaganda methods is obfuscation of something that would otherwise be clear cut especially had this been conducted by Indonesia or Apartheid South Africa.

Transcript of BBC documentary

00.33.21
Olenka Frenkiel
The Israeli army has used new unidentified weapons. In February 2001 a new gas was used in Gaza. A hundred and eighty patients were admitted to hospitals with severe convulsions.

00.33.41
Voiceover
The Israelis say this is tear gas. But this is not tear gas. We have never seen this gas before. We need some medicine for treatment. But it must be the right medicine.

00.33.56
Aston
Dr MOHAMMED SALAMA
Director, Palestinian Health Ministry We asked, what kind of gas? But nobody verified for us the type of gas to give the antidote at that moment. Also we don't know how to check, how to examine, how to send this. We are in occupied area. We are surrounded. It is impossible to send these samples to international lab to test.

00.34.27
Olenka Frenkiel
Israel is outside chemical and biological weapons treaties and still refuses to say what the new gas was.

The people who brought you the Holocaust are certainly not dead. Many, many of them are still alive. While the war generation is older, it is still very much alive. They are the parents and grandparents of the young Germans.

> gas dissipates and disappears into thin air. so i think their boast that they would get "a sample and analyze it"

That wasn't what they said. Top PA officials claimed to have aquired a substance and to have already sent it in for testing.

If this was a lie it doesn't really support your argument. That you concede it likely is a lie (and not in the "heat of the moment") supports what I just said.

This lie was made to "sell" the propaganda of poison, an oft-repeated canard.

> it is not unreasonable to ask why people were convulsing upon exposure

Why should I or anyone else believe that this is true? The source was PA officials quoted by the Iranian news agency (IRNA). Hmmmm.

> i think to assert that this event is bogus, that it never happened, that the serious medical problems never occurred, is just as obfuscatory

This is where you err. The BURDEN OF PROOF is on the accusor. If the accusor is found to be lying, the witness is considered discredited and the accused is acquitted.

At least that's the western standard of justice.
Your milage may vary.

> Israel's supporters' denials (even when confronted with video evidence and eyewitness testimony) reeks

You mean like the "eyewitness testimony" of 500-3000 people executed in Jenin?

You mean like the "video evidence" of the murder of 12-year old Mohammed Al-Dura by Arab gunmen, an event which may even have been staged to frame Israel?

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/06/fallows.htm

The BBC clip isn't particularly helpful, because the reporter is only regurgitating the information being fed to her by others. Yet examine what was said:

|| we don't know how to check, how to examine, how to send this.... It is impossible to send these samples to international lab to test.

Look how the lie was reversed. Now they have a sample but they can't send it out for testing....

There is visual evidence of the gas's effect in the film documentry called "Gaza Strip" and it included the interview of the French doctor about the side effects, interviews of victims, and video shots of victims convulsing in hospital beds.

13-year old Sliman Salah, one of many recent victims of a new Israeli "tear" gas
photo: Antonio Olmos

Vale of tears

Tear or poison gas?

Jonathan Cook, in the West Bank, investigates evidence of a new war crime

The school playground in the village of Al-Khader, near Bethlehem, has been a children's battleground for the past six months: pupils finish classes at midday and congregate to throw stones at the Israeli soldiers stationed in the hills around their homes. The confrontation was relatively trouble-free until last month when soldiers fired tear gas into the playground. One canister landed only a few feet from 13-year-old Sliman Salah, enveloping him in a cloud of gas described by witnesses as an unfamiliar, yellow colour. Within a minute he was unconscious.

By the time Salah arrived at the private Yamamah hospital, his body was racked by violent spasms and convulsions, his breathing was sporadic and his pupils tightly constricted. The French doctor who admitted him was baffled. Annie Dudin, a paediatrician who has worked in the West Bank for 15 years, has treated dozens of victims of gas inhalation, including many between 1987 and 1993, during the first Intifada, but had never seen symptoms like Salah's before.

Normally, victims recover after a few minutes away from tear gas. In more severe cases, oxygen and an injection of glucose may be needed to stop coughing fits and dry up streaming eyes. Neither treatment worked with Salah. His seizures continued until he was given large doses of anti-convulsants and only slowly did he regain consciousness.

"I have seen nothing like this before," Dudin said. "I would have expected these sorts of symptoms in a case of severe poisoning. But to treat him properly, I needed to know what chemicals he had been exposed to." Later that day, Salah was transferred to Hussein Hospital in nearby Beit Jala, to be put under the care of neurologist Nabir Musleh. Tests suggested that the boy had been poisoned, but doctors again had no idea how to treat him. They told him to shower regularly to wash away any chemical traces on his skin.

Within 24 hours of his release, Salah was having convulsions and had to be readmitted to the Hussein. His symptoms were finally brought under control five days after his exposure to the gas. But Salah's father says the boy is still suffering from stomach pains, vomiting, dizziness and breathing problems.

Salah is just one of a spate of such cases in the Bethlehem area in the past month. Another tear gas victim recently arrived unconscious at the Yamamah having convulsive fits and Hussein Hospital has reported a rapid increase in untreatable patients since the first such case was admitted in late February.

Peter Qumri, the hospital's director, said: "Until a few weeks ago it was simple to help tear gas victims. We gave them oxygen for 10 minutes and then discharged them. Now they arrive having fits, dizzy, sometimes unconscious, having severe problems breathing. Something has definitely changed."

The new cases in Bethlehem follow a pattern first seen in the Gaza Strip in mid-February, when a large crowd was tear-gassed near Khan Younis refugee camp. Ten men were admitted to Nasser Hospital suffering from seizures that doctors could not treat. Many other patients vomited for days afterwards.

Because of Israel's strict blockade of Gaza, the cases were difficult to verify at the time. But local Palestinian doctors raised concerns that Israel might have started using a new, concentrated form of tear gas or combining different gases.

The Israeli Defence Force says it uses only standard CS gas, although it admits that in some clashes it has also used smoke screen gases to protect its soldiers. It believes the victims' complaints are caused by "anxiety." That conclusion has been dismissed by doctors, including one of the few Western medics in the Gaza Strip. Helen Brisco of Médecins Sans Frontières, says the Khan Younis patients she treated were clinically ill and that in the more serious cases, patients had severe muscle paralysis.

Brisco's and Dudin's observations are supported by an investigation carried out by the Palestinian Ministry of Health, which took air samples at Khan Younis as well as blood samples of patients. Its preliminary findings suggest that Israel used a cocktail of gases in much higher concentrations than before.

Dudin is also sceptical of Israel's explanations. "Sliman's condition was certainly not one of anxiety. It is very difficult for me to say what he was exposed to. Without knowing the chemicals involved, I cannot run the necessary tests, but his symptoms were compatible with exposure to a strong poison. This suggests to me that the gas being used by Israel is no longer safe."

James B. Longley, the filmographer who directed the documentary "Gaza Strip" (of which a small preview of it appears in the second post from the top), wrote in once in another thread here on SF Indymedia to state emphatically that the victims he saw were not suffering from ANY signs of tear gas -- that the gas used was unknown but left the people he saw in agony for days some as long as a month.

I tried to locate that article, but Google, it appears, has started excluding pages on SF Indymedia which has content on it that might meet with the disapproval of Israel's supporters.

I suspect that Israel's supporters undertook a letter writing campaign to Google to get them to hide legitimate information on Israel. This would not be the first time they've done this as they are highly organized and well funded.

My guess is they gave Google a list of offending pages and Google now excludes those pages from their searches.

I found this to be the case with Google on other sites as well. So I don't know how much information is being censored now through search engines which are basically the only windows to the web.

The PA claims it sent samples of the "poison" to an international lab for testing.

Was this a lie?

If it's true, why haven't they released the results?

As I've documented above, this is a regurgitation of earlier lies that have already been discredited.

Evidently the "anti-Zionists" hope that by repeating these lies (and conspiracy theories) some people will eventually believe it, a propaganda tactic known as the "Big Lie".

Watch. They'll do it again.....

Run along and play, children. God has spoken.

gee someone is paranoid. If they are blocking it they arent doing a very good job the article seems to turn up all over the place on google.
use hotbot or something instead if you think google is controled by the man.

I suggest you explain this remark if you're able??

If it wasn't Israeli gas, then what was causing it KL?

Were all the international observers lying? Were all the Palestinian victims? Was it a giant Palestinian organized anti-semitic conspiracy against the pure and noble state of Israel?

Give us a break, KL, we do not subscribe to your dellusions.

""The BBC always questions and doubts Israel's integrity," Seaman said. "It is always putting it in some demonic context, not as a democracy fighting for survival.""


More typical Israeli propoganda about "survival." How long do they think they can maintain this lie? Israel is in no danger of being destroyed, it can be easily argued that it never has been. This hysterical grand standing by Israeli representitives, that it is in mortal danger from an impoverished occupied people, is absolutely revolting and insulting to the intelligence.

This kind of pathetic propoganda by Israel however should bring joy, since it can be understood for what it really means, that the occupation and zionist colonist project of the Gaza strip and West Bank is in danger of coming to an end!

As opposed to terrorists "going out"? Guess you never heard of state terrorism, hmm?

Israel does not teach its children that muslims must be pushed into the sea and destroyed. Palestinian textbooks, on the other hand, refer to Jews being another species and call for Israel's destruction.

Israel shows tremendous restraint in their firm responses to palestinian terrorism. If they so desired, they are the ones who could push the enemy into the sea.

Israel is clearly on the side of morality in this conflict.

Have you ever read anything beyond Israel, the good? Or is it the moral you stated?

There is all kinds of documentation wherein people associated with Israeal, the good and moral, including rabbis, have come out with some very extreme hate comments about the Palestinians. If you get time, why don't you check it out, then come back and we'll talk.

Incidentally, I assume you are aware that Arab children in Israeli schools are segragated from Israeli children? Or is that another lie put forth by those awful wretches who want to "push Israel into the sea".

Whatever else is going on or otherwise, Dave, that line sure has gotten a lot of mileage.

> I assume you are aware that Arab children in Israeli schools are segragated from Israeli children? Or is that another lie put forth by those awful wretches who want to "push Israel into the sea".

Yup, it's another lie. What's true is that there is no forced bussing. Arab children who live in Arab villages go to Arab schools, where they are taught in Arabic. Arabs who live in cities may choose to go to an Arab school or the local public school.

The curious thing here is that "humanitarians" have pushed for this in the US, wanting Spanish-speaking schools available for Hispanic children.


http://www.un.org/law/cod/terroris.htm

Israel's response to half a century of Arab terrorism has been within the confines of the Geneva Conventions and Article 51 of the UN Charter.

Had the Arabs been willing to compromise and make peace with Israel, in 1937, 1947, 1949, 1956, 1967, 1973.... there could have been peace rather than war for generations.

Isn't it about time to choose peace?
Hopefully Abbas, unlike Arafat, has done so.

Palestinians want israeli jews dead and israel eliminated. So some israeli jews hate them for it. Go figure.

Other Palestinians do not. Tarring them all with the same brush is racist.

No. Palestinians are not their own "race," they are the mostly the same race as jordanians, syrians, and others.

No. Palestinians are not their own "race," they are the mostly the same race as jordanians, syrians, and others.

And, going by polls, the vast, vasty majority of palestinians do want israel to disappear. True, you're right that the vast majority may not actually want to do something about it themselves.

It seems that KL has avoided my question so let me ask it again.

"If it wasn't Israeli gas, then what was causing it KL?

Were all the international observers lying? Were all the Palestinian victims? Was it a giant Palestinian organized anti-semitic conspiracy against the pure and noble state of Israel?

Give us a break, KL, we do not subscribe to your dellusions."

Check out this link about a liberal elitist professor at Oxford - Anti-Semetic fever - catch it!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now - Where is the palestinian peace movement? Until a majority of them steps up and calls off this terror b.s., there will never be peace.

Speaking of palestinians - what is that? I've been checking old maps and, as far as I can tell, the 'occupied territory' was previously owned by syria, jordan, and egypt. How is it that a bunch of guys calling themselves "palestinians" now show up and pretend the land is theirs? Hell, even yasser araffat is an egyptian - so what gives?

International law says land exchanged in a peace agreement ending armed conflict rightfully belongs to the receiver. Egypt, syria, and jordan are the ones who lost the 'occupied lands' because they decided to start wars with Israel. Let them give the 'palestinians' a new home.

I haven't heard many Austrians crying lately about Italy 'occupying' the territories Austria lost in WW I.

"including rabbis, have come out with some very extreme hate comments about the Palestinians. "

I expect they have and that should , probably (balanced against a right of free speach), be discouraged. But that problem is small next to the hate that the mullas are spreading together with their inciting of racial violence.

After checking ancient maps, I was surprised to find out that "Israel" never existed prior to 1948.

In fact, during Biblical times, the jews and people of other religions lived within the roman empire.

There was never an Israeli country within what is acknowledged to be a Palestinian borders, ever!

Lots of countries didn't exist prior to the early or mid 1900's. What a newsflash!

As for the "Palestinian territory," 80% of it was taken in the early 1900's and made into transjordan, which became Jordan.

The remaining 20% was to be Israel and an official state called Palestine.

Unfortunately, Jordan, the palestinians, iraq, iran, egypt, jordan, syria and lebanon all decided to try to wipe out the jews and get rid of israel. They failed. And, angry about their failure, they took their anger out on their own jewish citizens, who had nothing to do with israel at all. As for destrying israel, the attempts failed, but some palestinians kept trying all this time as best they could. If they ever stop, there will be a palestinian state (other than Jordan, that is). If they don't stop, there won't be one.

That's it. Have a good day.

"We must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not going to sell them anything back."
-Theodore Herzl, founder of zionism, 1895

---

from President Woodrow Wilson's 1919 King-Crane Commission Report:

ZIONISM

E. We recommend, in the fifth place, serious modification of the extreme Zionist program for Palestine of unlimited immigration of Jews, looking finally to making Palestine distinctly a Jewish State.

(1) The Commissioners began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in its favor, but the actual facts in Palestine, coupled with the force of the general principles proclaimed by the Allies and accepted by the Syrians have driven them to the recommendation here made.

(2) The commission was abundantly supplied with literature on the Zionist program by the Zionist Commission to Palestine; heard in conferences much concerning the Zionist colonies and their claims; and personally saw something of what had been accomplished. They found much to approve in the aspirations and plans of the Zionists, and had warm appreciation for the devotion of many of the colonists and for their success, by modern methods, in overcoming natural obstacles.

(3) The Commission recognized also that definite encouragement had been given to the Zionists by the Allies in Mr. Balfour's often quoted statement in its approval by other representatives of the Allies. If, however, the strict terms of the Balfour Statement are adhered to -favoring "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people," "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights existing in non-Jewish communities in Palestine"-it can hardly be doubted that the extreme Zionist Program must be greatly modified.

For "a national home for the Jewish people" is not equivalent to making Palestine into a Jewish State; nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the "civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine." The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase.

In his address of July 4, 1918, President Wilson laid down the following principle as one of the four great "ends for which the associated peoples of the world were fighting"; "The settlement of every question, whether of territory, of sovereignty, of economic arrangement, or of political relationship upon the basis of the free acceptance of that settlement by the people immediately concerned and not upon the basis of the material interest or advantage of any other nation or people which may desire a different settlement for the sake of its own exterior influence or mastery." If that principle is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine's population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine-nearly nine tenths of the whole-are emphatically against the entire Zionist program. The tables show that there was no one thing upon which the population of Palestine were more agreed than upon this. To subject a people so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social pressure to surrenderthe land, would be a gross violation of the principle just quoted, and of the people's rights, though it kept within the forms of law.

It is to be noted also that the feeling against the Zionist program is not confined to Palestine, but shared very generally by the people throughout Syria as our conferences clearly showed. More than 72 per cent-1,350 in all-of all the petitions in the whole of Syria were directed against the Zionist program. Only two requests-those for a united Syria and for independence-had a larger support This genera] feeling was only voiced by the "General Syrian Congress," in the seventh, eighth and tenth resolutions of the statement. (Already quoted in the report.)

The Peace Conference should not shut its eyes to the fact that the anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria is intense and not lightly to be flouted. No British officer, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than 50,000 soldiers would be required even to initiate the program. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense of the injustice of the Zionist program, on the part of the non-Jewish populations of Palestine and Syria. Decisions, requiring armies to carry out, are sometimes necessary, but they are surely not gratuitously to be taken in the interests of a serious injustice. For the initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a "right" to Palestine, based on an occupation of 2,000 years ago, can hardly be seriously considered.

There is a further consideration that cannot justly be ignored, if the world is to look forward to Palestine becoming a definitely Jewish state, however gradually that may take place. That consideration grows out of the fact that Palestine is "the Holy Land" for Jews, Christians, and Moslems alike. Millions of Christians and Moslems all over the world are quite as much concerned as the Jews with conditions in Palestine especially with those conditions which touch upon religious feeling and rights. The relations in these matters in Palestine are most delicate and difficult. With the best possible intentions, it may be doubted whether the Jews could possibly seem to either Christians or Moslems proper guardians of the holy places, or custodians of the Holy Land as a whole.

The reason is this: The places which are most sacred to Christians-those having to do with Jesus-and which are also sacred to Moslems, are not only not sacred to Jews, but abhorrent to them. It is simply impossible, under those circumstances, for Moslems and Christians to feel satisfied to have these places in Jewish hands, or under the custody of Jews. There are still other places about which Moslems must have the same feeling. In fact, from this point of view, the Moslems, just because the sacred places of all three religions are sacred to them have made very naturally much more satisfactory custodians of the holy places than the Jews could be. It must be believed that the precise meaning, in this respect, of the complete Jewish occupation of Palestine has not been fully sensed by those who urge the extreme Zionist program. For it would intensify, with a certainty like fate, the anti-Jewish feeling both in Palestine and in all other portions of the world which look to Palestine as "the Holy Land."

In view of all these considerations, and with a deep sense of sympathy for the Jewish cause, the Commissioners feel bound to recommend that only a greatly reduced Zionist program be attempted by the Peace Conference, and even that, only very gradually initiated. This would have to mean that Jewish immigration should be definitely limited, and that the project for making Palestine distinctly a Jewish commonwealth should be given up.

---

The Faithful are Allowed to Carry the Cornerstone to the Area of the Hulda Gates of the Temple Mount
The Israeli Supreme Court Decides on the Faithful Movement Petition

[...] I want to bring a word from G–d to the enemies of Israel and to all the nations in the world. Do not even try to prevent this godly event and process. The purification of the Temple Mount from the foreigners and enemies of Israel and their desecration of the holy site of G–d and the rebuilding of the temple cannot be prevented. This is a major historical, prophetic, end-time event which the G–d of Israel and the Universe will soon bring to completion in our lifetime. G–d anointed Israel to rebuild this house and to serve Him in this great house not only for the people of Israel but for all the nations as the prophet Isaiah stated - “... for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.” (Isaiah56:7)

Temple Mount Faithful

 

Lots of Jews!	But only a few Arabs!
MYTH “The Jews have no claim to the land they call Israel.” FACT: "By the early 19th century-years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement, more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel. The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State." - Jewish Virtual Library	MYTH “Palestine was always an Arab country.” FACT "When Jews began to immigrate to Palestine in large numbers in 1882, fewer than 250,000 Arabs lived there, and the majority of them had arrived in recent decades" -Jewish Virtual Library

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin at the funeral of mass murderer Baruch Goldstein.
(Feb. 27, 1994)

---

The Palestinians(Jews among them) lived on a 100% percent of historical Palestine.
The UN, after much pressure conceded to dividing historical palestine into two distinct states.
They assigned the Jewish folks 55% and the rest was to be the official Palestinian state.
The Jews knew they could win a war (as many weapons were smuggled illeagaly into Palestine with the help of a few mafia bosses from the U>S>)
They provoked the war and expanded the territory to include another chunk of historical Palestine( another 33% to be specific).
After the six day war, the Jews expanded the land to include the remaining 22% of Palestine,which is now what most Palestinians have accepted as the offer for their official state.
They will get 23% less than what the united nations had previously assigned them, but at least they will not have to answer to an occupier...

There most certainly was a Kingdom of Israel, as recorded in historical and archeological texts.

What is "historic Palestine"? It is a EUROPEAN concept which was defined on the basis of the JEWISH HOMELAND:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/palaestina_1849.jpg

Conder & Kitchener's "Survey of Western Palestine" helped establish Palestine as a meaningful geographical area in western politics and scholarship. Yet, in a letter date 7 March 1875, Kitchener wrote "what a glorious land this is when one can see it through the spectacles of imagination." Again we see that the land was not self-defined, and that it was glorious only in their imagination (based on Biblical stories). Indeed, Keith W. Whitelam of the University of Sheffield writes "The British fixed the scope and character of the region in dialogue with the Bible." As such, Palestine "was being defined by Jewish history.

For more about the LAND HISTORY, see:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/06/1623475.php

In the late 1800s' there were less than 10 percent of Palestinian Jews in historical Palestine.

Despite this the UN granted zionists the best agricultural land and over half of it, the remianing being left to the indeginous people.

The struggle EVER since has been the official recognition and granting by the Jews the Palestinian a state on only twenty two percent of their ancestral home land.
That is what the current conflict is based on.
Will the Israeli government cease their occupation of the land that legitimately belongs to the Palestinian folks.
Lets Pray, that the israeli government will do the right thing, amen!

Note how new lies are entered in lieu of the old lies which I just discredited.

My previous response made two points:

1. There was in history a Kingdom of Israel in this territory, as proven by historical texts and archeological evidence.

2. The reference for "Palestine" was the Jewish Homeland, the Land of Israel. It was not based on an Arab concept or location.

Unable to respond to these facts, we get this:

> In the late 1800s' there were less than 10 percent of Palestinian Jews in historical Palestine. Despite this the UN granted zionists the best agricultural land and over half of it, the remianing being left to the indeginous people

3. The 1947 UN compromise allocated territory where Jews were a majority to a Jewish state and territory where Arabs were a majority to an Arab state.

4. In 1923, Trans-Jordanian Palestine was severed from the Mandate of Palestine and created into an Arab-only monarchy (no Jews allowed). This accounted for 80% of "historic Palestine".

5. The 20% west of the Jordan River was designated as the Jewish Homeland.

6. The 1947 partition was of this 20%. Jews ended up with 54% of 20% (or 11% of "historic Palestine"). 80% of this territory was the Negev desert.

7. So, excluding the Negev, Israel ended up with only 3% of "historic Palestine". Are we to believe that these were the best lands? The 1936 Peel Commission wrote:

|| much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased.... there was at the time... little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land.

8. Jews bought, dried and developed swampland and irrigated sand-dunes and desert to make it bloom. I'll have to dig up the source, but I recall a figure from this period that Jews only held 11% of the land defined as arable.

9. Jews are the indigenous people. The Arabs present today came in the last few centuries, many between the world wars.

> The struggle EVER since has been the official recognition and granting by the Jews the Palestinian a state on only twenty two percent of their ancestral home land.

10. Not exactly their "ancestral homeland" given that many were recent arrivals.

11. The UNRPR initially wished to define an "Arab refugee" as an Arab who had lived in Mandate Palestine for a minimum of 10 years. Wanting as many people as possible to qualify for international assistance, the Arab League vehemently objected, lowering the number not to 5 but to a mere 2 years. Why? Because it was well known that scores of thousands of Arabs were recent arrivals.

12. In 1947, Israel was willing to recognize an Arab state on 45% of the Jewish homeland. The Arabs rejected the UN compromise and opted for war. Why?

13. Between 1948-1967 the disputed territories (22% of the Jewish Homeland) were under Arab rule. Why wasn't a Palestinian Arab state created then?

What new lies and accusations will now be thrown by those who cannot respond to the above?

You forgot to mention that Jews had lived there for ages and have the olive tress to prove it,

It was those Palestinians who emigrated from europe a few decades ago and proceeded to settle on the land of the Jews.

Most of the Palestinian leaders were not even Palestinains but eastern europeans.

And now they claim our land is theres,,, the adopted history that is ours as theirs... damn gentiles.

"They will get 23 percent less than what the United Nations had previously assigned them, but at least they wil not have to answer to an occupier".

My friend, I would not be too sure of that!!! However, I hope I'm wrong.

Some scholars argue if Jews really established a nation and if the Canaan was really destroyed. Some evidence support the theory that the Jews simply co-existed with other tribes.

The other thing is that the Roman renamed to Palestine.

I think the claim for an ancient land that once was is a bit weak.

KL wrote on Thursday July 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM

Where to begin... nearly each and every point stinks of revisionism or is a blatant lie.

>Note how new lies are entered in lieu of the old lies which I just discredited.

>My previous response made two points:

>1. There was in history a Kingdom of Israel in this territory, as proven by historical texts and archeological evidence.

Jesus link called a fake
An inscription on an ancient burial box is a modern forgery, experts say
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0306190270jun19,0,7152537.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed
By Joel Greenberg
Special to the Tribune
Published June 19, 2003

Historical accuracy of Bible called into question
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/bible/bible_authenticity.html
By ABRAHAM RABINOVICH
The Straits Times, Singapore
Pg. 18 of WORLD News
Monday Nov. 1st 1999

Also stated by archaeologists is the wanton destruction of non-hebrew archaeological finds, often with heavy equipment often found above and below hebrew layers.

> 2. The reference for "Palestine" was the Jewish Homeland, the Land of Israel. It was not based on an Arab concept or location.

whatever this is supposed to mean...

>Unable to respond to these facts, we get this:

>> In the late 1800s' there were less than 10 percent of Palestinian Jews in historical Palestine. Despite this the UN granted zionists the best agricultural land and over half of it, the remianing being left to the indeginous people

Palestine's Population During The Ottoman And The British Mandate Periods
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story559.html

It bears noting, the the Ottoman Empire kept well documented records (similar to inventory), of nearly aspect of their realm, to include census and production figures among others.

>3. The 1947 UN compromise allocated territory where Jews were a majority to a Jewish state and territory where Arabs were a majority to an Arab state.

Palestine's Population Distribution Per District In 1946
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story574.html

Jewish Owned Land In Palestine As Of 1947
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story571.html

4. In 1923, Trans-Jordanian Palestine was severed from the Mandate of Palestine and created into an Arab-only monarchy (no Jews allowed). This accounted for 80% of "historic Palestine".

Not entirely true, as Transjordan was partitioned in 1921 - officially designated in 1923 - and received autonomy in 1928. Untill 1928 the administration was mainly British.

Transjordan
http://www.btinternet.com/~britishempire/empire/maproom/transjordan.htm

>5. The 20% west of the Jordan River was designated as the Jewish Homeland.

Incorrect!

7 July 1937 - Royal (Peel) Commission report recommends partitioning Palestine into Jewish state comprising 33% of country including Haifa, Galilee, and coastal plain north of Isdud; Arab state in rest of country (to become part of Transjordan); and British mandatory enclaves including Jerusalem. Part of Palestinian population to be forcibly transferred, if necessary, from Jewish state...
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story564.html#1932%20-%201938
It should be mentioned that the zionist organization rejected this plan - though they later accepted the 1947 partition as a temporary solution only.
On July 12, 1937 David Ben-Gurion wrote in his diary commenting on the partition plan proposed by the British Peel Commission
"The compulsory transfer of the [Palestinian] Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own during the days of the first and second Temples. . . We are given an opportunity which we never dared to dream of in our wildest imaginings. This is MORE than a state, government and sovereignty----this is national consolidation in a free homeland." (Righteous Victims, p. 142)
and in August 7, 1937 he also stated to the Zionist Assembly during their debate of the Peel Commission
". . . In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the [Palestinian] Arab fellahin. . . it is important that this plan comes from the [British Peel] Commission and not from us. . . . Jewish power, which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out the transfer on a large scale. You must remember, that this system embodies an important humane and Zionist idea, to transfer parts of a people to their country and to settle empty lands. We believe that this action will also bring us closer to an agreement with the Arabs." (Righteous Victims, p. 143)
In 1937 David Ben-Gurion wrote about the compulsory population transfer, or ethnic cleansing, proposed by the Peel Commission
"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement] .... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it." (Righteous Victims, p. 144)
Soon after the U.N. Proposed Partitioning Palestinian in November 1947, Ben-Gurion urged his party to accept the partition because it will never be final,
"not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements." (Simha Falpan, p. 32)
To evacuate as much of Palestinian Arabs as possible, Ben-Gurion explained that their strategic objective was to destroy the urban Palestinian population since it was the most organized, he articulated this plan in his diary on December 11, 1947:
"Arabs are fleeing from Jaffa and Haifa. Bedouin are fleeing from the Sharon. Most are seeking with members of their family. Villagers are returning to their villages. Leaders are also in flight, most of them are taking their families to Nablus, Nazareth. The Bedouins are moving to Arab areas. According to our 'friends' [advisors], every response to our dealing a hard blow at the [Palestinian] Arabs with many casualties is a blessing. This will increase the Arabs' fear and external help for the Arabs will be ineffective. To what extent will stopping transportation cramp the Arabs? The fellahin [peasants] won't suffer, but city dwellers will. The country dwellers don't want to join the disturbances, unless dragged in by force. A vigorous response will strengthen the refusal of the peasants to participate in the battle. Josh Palmon [an advisor to Ben-Gurion on Arab affairs] thinks that Haifa and Jaffa will be evacuated [by the Palestinians] because of hunger. There was almost famine in Jaffa during the disturbances of 1936-1939." (Simha Falpan, p. 90-91)

>6. The 1947 partition was of this 20%. Jews ended up with 54% of 20% (or 11% of "historic Palestine"). 80% of this territory was the Negev desert.

Palestine UN GA Partition Plan, November 29th 1947
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story580.html

>7. So, excluding the Negev, Israel ended up with only 3% of "historic Palestine". Are we to believe that these were the best lands? The 1936 Peel Commission wrote:

>|| much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased.... there was at the time... little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land.

Funny that they would write and sign such a report, given the very short time given between assignment of the task and the report's closure (less than eleven months).

REPORT of the PALESTINE ROYAL COMMISSION (Peel Commission)
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/peel1.html

>8. Jews bought, dried and developed swampland and irrigated sand-dunes and desert to make it bloom. I'll have to dig up the source, but I recall a figure from this period that Jews only held 11% of the land defined as arable.

It is often claimed that Palestine was empty until Zionists Jews made Palestinian desert bloom...
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story665.html

>9. Jews are the indigenous people. The Arabs present today came in the last few centuries, many between the world wars.

Shades of Golda! Try again!

"Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants." Ben-Gurion often returned to this point, emphasizing that Palestinian Arabs had "the full right" to an independent economic, cultural, and communal life, but not political. (Shabtai Teveth, p. 37-38)

Palestine was empty and mostly inhabited by nomads who immigrated to the region from neighboring countries
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story414.html

Palestine's Population During The Ottoman And The British Mandate Periods
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story559.html

1878
First modern Zionist agricultural settlement of Petach Tiqwa established

1904-1914
Second wave of about 40,000 Zionist immigrants increases Jewish population in Palestine to about 6% of total. Since the inception of Zionism in claimed that Palestinian was an empty country...

1919-1923
Third wave of over 35,000 Zionist immigrants increases Jewish population in Palestine to 12% of total. Registered Jewish landownership (1923) totals 3% of area of country.

October 1922
First British census of Palestine shows population of 757,182 -78% Muslim Arab, 11% Jewish, 9.6% Christian Arab.

1924-1928
Fourth wave of 67,000 Zionist immigrants, over 50% from Poland, increases Jewish population of Palestine to 16% of total. Registered Jewish landownership (1928) totals 4.2% of area of country

1929-1939
Fifth wave of over 250,000 Zionist immigrants increases Jewish population in Palestine to 30% of total. Registered Jewish landownership (1939) totals 5.7% of area of country.

>> The struggle EVER since has been the official recognition and granting by the Jews the Palestinian a state on only twenty two percent of their ancestral home land.

>10. Not exactly their "ancestral homeland" given that many were recent arrivals.

is this an example of denial?

>11. The UNRPR initially wished to define an "Arab refugee" as an Arab who had lived in Mandate Palestine for a minimum of 10 years. Wanting as many people as possible to qualify for international assistance, the Arab League vehemently objected, lowering the number not to 5 but to a mere 2 years. Why? Because it was well known that scores of thousands of Arabs were recent arrivals.

Blatant propaganda!

>12. In 1947, Israel was willing to recognize an Arab state on 45% of the Jewish homeland. The Arabs rejected the UN compromise and opted for war. Why?
The Arabs did not opt for war! The agreement with the British Mandate was for forces from the Arab Nations to secure the areas designated as non-jewish and to provide security. At no time did any of the Arab forces set foot outside the 'Palestinian area', in fact due to the fact that the Arab units were only lightly armed with insufficient munition stocks, they never even performed their assigned task of security - instead folded and retreated often without firing a single shot.
The rejection of the 1947 Partition Plan was simple: due to the fact that multiple religions enjoyed a peaceful life for centuries sharing an entire region - why should they support partition.

>13. Between 1948-1967 the disputed territories (22% of the Jewish Homeland) were under Arab rule. Why wasn't a Palestinian Arab state created then?

Gaza was designated as part of Egypt, And the West Bank part of Jordan. A separate state was not necessary.

For millenia the people of the Middle East found borders unnecessary. It was only after WWI that many parts of the world received political boundries, often arbitrarily - creating problems to this day (ex. Chekoslovakia, Jugoslavia, Afganistan, Iraq and many others that still are unresolved)

>What new lies and accusations will now be thrown by those who cannot respond to the above?

Apparently no worse than your own!

Why is it that any exposure of Israel's sordid nature is immediately met with mud-slinging?

The reason I've set my question in the present is due alone to the fact that Israel (like the present Bush regime) can't seem to learn from the past. One would think in regards to history, that Israel, knowing the results of the 'dark-side' would at least attempt some form of responsible behaviour...


Traces of poison
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1750.htm

The reason they respond with mud-slinging is because they cannot answer your arguments and have learned through experience that even perceived anti-Semitism is enough to extinguish all logical debate.

BTW, thanks for that link. Very interesting.

What is unfortunate, is that even evidence like this (from released UN records) is typically met with screams of "blood libel" because Israel's supporters have come to realize that such accusations always allow Israel to get away with its worst crimes.

The next form of mud-slinging will probably come in the form of someone posting something anti-Semitic and using your handle to do it. This has happened to me on a couple occasions so I no longer stick with one handle.

My hat's off to SoL for at least trying to make a substantive response. Let's analyse it:

KL> 1. There was in history a Kingdom of Israel in this territory, as proven by historical texts and archeological evidence

SL> Jesus link called a fake
SL> Historical accuracy of Bible called into question

That a recent find was ruled a fake is of no relevance, and if some sections of the Bible (mostly of books/legends older than Samuel) are called into question, so what? Because George Washington did or didn't chop down the Cherry Tree does that prove that he did or didn't exist? Of course not.

There is no scientific debate on this issue. There is plenty of historic and archeological evidence proving that the Kingdoms of Israel and Judea existed.

KL> 2. The reference for "Palestine" was the Jewish Homeland, the Land of Israel. It was not based on an Arab concept or location

SL> whatever this is supposed to mean...

That there was no Arab concept known as "Palestine". They took that name from the land on which they squatted. If I settle in the "midwest" and call myself a "midwesterner", does that make me indigenous? Or does it actually prove the opposite, that the land on which I settled was already named by someone else?

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/palaestina_1849.jpg

Conder & Kitchener's "Survey of Western Palestine" helped establish Palestine as a meaningful geographical area in western politics and scholarship. Yet, in a letter date 7 March 1875, Kitchener wrote "what a glorious land this is when one can see it through the spectacles of imagination." Again we see that the land was not self-defined, and that it was glorious only in their imagination (based on Biblical stories). Indeed, Keith W. Whitelam of the University of Sheffield writes "The British fixed the scope and character of the region in dialogue with the Bible." As such, Palestine "was being defined by Jewish history.

SL> Palestine's Population During The Ottoman And The British Mandate Periods....
[source]
SL> It bears noting, the the Ottoman Empire kept well documented records (similar to inventory), of nearly aspect of their realm, to include census and production figures among others.

Now let's see what SL's [subjective] source actually states:

|| There are scant Ottoman data on important statistics, such as age of marriage, fertility, and mortality, although mortality and fertility rates have been estimated through the use of demographic techniques.

Mr. "Sick of Lies" has misrepresented his own source.

KL> 3. The 1947 UN compromise allocated territory where Jews were a majority to a Jewish state and territory where Arabs were a majority to an Arab state.

SL> Jewish Owned Land In Palestine As Of 1947...

The map is a false representation, for it is black and white without gray, as if land that wasn't privately owned by Jews was (as if by default) Arab land. Why don't you show us an honest map, depicting individually owned Arab land? Perhaps also distinguish between land that was owned by foreign land owners and not the people who lived there?

What would such a map show? That the vast majority of the land (~80%) was not individually owned.

KL> 4. In 1923, Trans-Jordanian Palestine was severed from the Mandate of Palestine and created into an Arab-only monarchy (no Jews allowed). This accounted for 80% of "historic Palestine".

SL> Not entirely true, as Transjordan was partitioned in 1921 - officially designated in 1923 - and received autonomy in 1928. Untill 1928 the administration was mainly British.

Your nit-picking doesn't refute my point. 80% of "historic Palestine" was made into an Arab-only state in the 1920s.

KL> 5. The 20% west of the Jordan River was designated as the Jewish Homeland.

SL> Incorrect! ...1937 - Royal (Peel) Commission report recommends partitioning [western] Palestine

In 1923, in the Treaty of Sevres, when Trans-Jordan was formally severed from the Mandate of Palestine, the standing order of business was that the remaining 20% of western Palestine would be the Jewish homeland.

SL> It should be mentioned that the zionist organization rejected this plan

Not exactly. The Jewish Agency accepted the principle of partition but rejected the specifics of the Peel plan.

You mention the debate between Jewish leaders, but mention nothing about the Arab response -- which was total rejection.

> transfer

While today we find this notion distasteful, the idea of a "transfer" originated with (I think) the British. Keep in mind that this was in a different period of time. Scores of millions of people had recently been transferred in Europe following WW I, and would be again following WW II, as would about 10 million Hindus and Muslims between India and Pakistan.

KL> 6. The 1947 partition was of this 20%. Jews ended up with 54% of 20% (or 11% of "historic Palestine"). 80% of this territory was the Negev desert

SL> Palestine UN GA Partition Plan, November 29th 1947

Thanks for the map, but are we to understand that you don't dispute this point?

KL> 7. So, excluding the Negev, Israel ended up with only 3% of "historic Palestine". Are we to believe that these were the best lands? The 1936 Peel Commission wrote:

|| much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased.... there was at the time... little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land.

SL> Funny that they would write and sign such a report, given the very short time given between assignment of the task and the report's closure (less than eleven months).

Eleven months seems a sufficient time for such research, and this wasn't the first such commission, either. In addition, the commissioners could rely upon the help of local British officials, many of whom saw this development and progress on a daily basis.

KL> 8. Jews bought, dried and developed swampland and irrigated sand-dunes and desert to make it bloom. I'll have to dig up the source, but I recall a figure from this period that Jews only held 11% of the land defined as arable.

> It is often claimed that Palestine was empty until Zionists Jews made Palestinian desert bloom...

Sorry, but your source is a non-sequitor. Agriculture was the main Arab product. I suspect that if you compared Arab produce then and compared it with the US at the time it would also be favorable. So what?

Even today nearly 2/3rds of Israel is desert. Arguing that it wasn't so 100+ years ago is silly, especially given the numerous reports by travellers in the region.
This is documented in the article below. I invite you to comment there:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/06/1623475.php

KL> 9. Jews are the indigenous people. The Arabs present today came in the last few centuries, many between the world wars.

> "Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants." Ben-Gurion often returned to this point...

Neither I (nor Golda) said that the land was empty.
I explicitly said that Arabs had migrated there in recent centuries.
But that does not make them any more "indigenous" than the white man in America.

Jews, on the other hand, had been living in that land CONTINUOUSLY for 3300+ years.

Since there is no record of the Exodus other than in biblical sources, some scholars believe that the ancient Hebrews may have been the Habiru who may well have even predated the Canaanites in this land. (My theory is that the Habiru were enslaved in Canaan which was then under Egyptian dominion).

>> The struggle EVER since has been the official recognition and granting by the Jews the Palestinian a state on only twenty two percent of their ancestral home land.

KL> 10. Not exactly their "ancestral homeland" given that many were recent arrivals.

SL> is this an example of denial?

No, it's a statement of fact. No serious comment from you?

If by "ancestral homeland" one means that they had been living there for a few hundred years, then that would be true for the Arabs who had lived there prior to the advent of the 20th century. For many others (e.g. including the mothers of Arafat and Edward Said, and Sheik Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam [after whom Hamas' armed wing is named]), their "ancestral lands" were in surrounding Arab countries: Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq -- and even as far as Algeria and Morocco.

KL> 11. The UNRPR initially wished to define an "Arab refugee" as an Arab who had lived in Mandate Palestine for a minimum of 10 years. Wanting as many people as possible to qualify for international assistance, the Arab League vehemently objected, lowering the number not to 5 but to a mere 2 years. Why? Because it was well known that scores of thousands of Arabs were recent arrivals.

SL> Blatant propaganda!

You wish. From the Arab web-site devoted to the "refugees":
http://www.badil.org/Assistance/Publications/1997/ref1b.htm

|| A Palestine refugee is a person whose normal residence was in Palestine for a MINIMUM OF TWO YEARS preceding the conflict in 1948

[This is the UNRWA's definition. It replaced UNRPR in late 1948. Perhaps I erred in naming UNRPR instead of UNRWA, but I believe the UNRWA simply adopted UNRPR's definition.]

KL> 12. In 1947, Israel was willing to recognize an Arab state on 45% of the Jewish homeland. The Arabs rejected the UN compromise and opted for war. Why?
The Arabs did not opt for war! The agreement with the British Mandate was for forces from the Arab Nations to secure the areas designated as non-jewish and to provide security. At no time did any of the Arab forces set foot outside the 'Palestinian area', in fact due to the fact that the Arab units were only lightly armed with insufficient munition stocks, they never even performed their assigned task of security - instead folded and retreated often without firing a single shot.
The rejection of the 1947 Partition Plan was simple: due to the fact that multiple religions enjoyed a peaceful life for centuries sharing an entire region - why should they support partition.

KL> 13. Between 1948-1967 the disputed territories (22% of the Jewish Homeland) were under Arab rule. Why wasn't a Palestinian Arab state created then?

SL> Gaza was designated as part of Egypt, And the West Bank part of Jordan. A separate state was not necessary.

QED. For you have forgotten what I was addressing this comment:

Ophra> The struggle EVER since has been the official recognition and granting by the Jews the Palestinian a state... That is what the current conflict is based on.

So despite even what you have said above, that wasn't the reason for the Arab rejection of the UN compromise.

The reason, as you way, wasn't to create yet another Arab state. There was no need or real desire for it.

The purpose was to destroy the Jewish state.

Traces of poison
Israel's Dark History revealed.

Israel, not Iraq, holds that distinction of being the first country in the region to use weapons of mass destruction with genocidal intent.
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At a time when TV screens are filled with images of perceived weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in Iraq among people who are on the verge of starvation, the West turns a blind eye to the first biological terrorist in the Middle East, Israel, where the largest depot of WMD between London and Peking is located.

When confronted with the anomaly, the United States ambassador to the UN, John Negroponti, responds with typical cynicism, "Israel did not use these weapons against its people or its neighbours." Assuming that the ambassador is well-informed, this statement is a patent lie. Israel used biological weapons even before it was created on Arab soil in 1948 and ever since. The purpose, according to Ben Gurion, is genocide, and if not complete, the purpose is not to allow the dispossessed Palestinians to return to their homes.

POISONING ACRE WATER SUPPLY: In the wake of Haifa's occupation on 23 April 1948 by the Zionists, under the nose of the British Mandate forces commended by General Stockwell, a man still historically discredited for this failure, thousands converged on Acre, a nearby city, which was still Arab under the "protection" of the British forces.

Acre was to be the next Zionist target. The Zionists besieged the city from the land side, and started showering the population with a hail of mortar bombs day and night. Famous for its historical walls, Acre could stand the siege for a long time. The city water supply comes from a nearby village, Kabri, about 10kms to the north, through an aqueduct. The Zionists injected typhoid in the aqueduct at some intermediate point which passes through Zionist settlements. (see map)

The story can now be told, thanks to the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) files which have now become available, 50 years after the event. A series of reports, under the reference G59/1/GC, G3/82, sent by ICRC delegate de Meuron from 6 May to about 19 May 1948 describe the conditions of the city population, struck by a sudden typhoid epidemic, and the efforts to combat it.

Of particular importance are the minutes of an emergency conference held at the Lebanese Red Cross Hospital in Acre on 6 May, to deal with the typhoid epidemic. The meeting was attended by: Brigadier Beveridge, Chief of British Medical Services and Colonel Bonnet of the British Army, Dr Maclean of the Medical Services, Mr de Meuron, ICRC delegate in addition to other officials of the city. The minutes stated that there are at least 70 known civilian casualties, others may not be reported. It was determined that the infection is "water borne", not due to crowded or unhygienic conditions as claimed by the Israelis. It was decided that a substitute water supply should now come from artesian wells or from the agricultural station, just north of Acre (see map), not from the aqueduct. Water chlorine solution was applied, inoculation of civil population started, movement of civil population was controlled (lest refugees heading north towards Lebanon will carry the typhoid epidemic with them, as intended by the Zionists).

In his other reports, de Meuron mentioned 55 casualties among British soldiers, who were spirited away to Port Said for hospitalisation. General Stockwell arranged for de Meuron to fly on a military plane to Jerusalem to fetch medicine. The British, who left Palestine in the hands of the Jews, did not want another embarrassing incident to delay their departure.

Brigadier Beveridge told de Meuron that this is "the first time this happened in Palestine". This belies the Israeli story, including that of the Israeli historian Benny Morris, that the epidemic is due to "unhygienic conditions" of the refugees. If that was so, how come there was an almost equal number of casualties among British soldiers? Why did such conditions not cause epidemic in such other concentrations of refugees, under far worse conditions, in Jaffa, Lydda, Nazareth and Gaza?

ICRC delegate, de Meuron admired greatly the heroic efforts of Arab doctors, Al-Dahhan and Al-Araj from the Lebanese Red Cross hospital in Acre, Dr Dabbas from Haifa and Mrs Bahai from Haifa.

The city of Acre, now burdened by the epidemic, fell easy prey to the Zionists. They intensified their bombardment. Trucks carrying loudspeakers proclaimed, "Surrender or commit suicide. We will destroy you to the last man." That was not a figure of speech. Palumbo, in The Palestinian Catastrophe, notes the "typical" case of Mohamed Fayez Soufi. Soufi with friends went to get food from their homes in a new Acre suburb. They were caught by Zionist soldiers and forced at gun point to drink cyanide. Soufi faked swallowing the poison. The others were not so lucky, they died in half an hour.

Lieutenant Petite, a French UN observer, reported that looting was being conducted in a systematic manner by the army, carrying off furniture, clothes and anything useful for the new Jewish immigrants and also part of "a Jewish plan to prevent the return of the refugees." Lieutenant Petite also reported that the Jews had murdered 100 Arab civilians in Acre, particularly those who refused to leave.

More horrors have been reported by de Meuron. He spoke of "a reign of terror" and the case of the rape of a girl by several soldiers and killing her father. He also wrote that all male civilians were taken to concentration camps and considered "prisoners of war" although they were not soldiers. This left many women and children homeless, without protection, subject to many acts of violence. He also notes the absence of water and electricity. He demanded from the Zionists a list of civilians detained as "prisoners of war", demanded to know their whereabouts and permission to visit them. More importantly he asked that Acre be placed under ICRC protection and care. Anyone who reads the familiar dry and matter-of-fact language of ICRC would not fail to notice the tone of abhorrence of Zionist actions in de Meuron reports from Acre.

This episode, which started with poisoning Acre water supply and ended with the collapse of the city, the depopulation of its inhabitants, and its occupation by the Jews, whetted their appetite to try this crime again.

GAZA POISONING: Two weeks later, after their "success" in Acre, the Zionists struck again. This time in Gaza, where hundreds of thousands of refugees had gathered after their villages in southern Palestine were occupied. The end however was different.

The following cable was sent from the commander of the Egyptian Forces in Palestine to General Headquarters in Cairo:

"15.20 hrs, 24 May [1948] Our Intelligence forces captured two Jews, David Horeen and David Mizrahi, loitering around army positions. They were interrogated and confessed they had been sent by Officer Moshe to poison the army [and the peoples'] water supply. They carried with them water bottles divided in the middle. The top part has potable water and the bottom part has a liquid contaminated with typhoid and dysentery, equipped with a rear opening from which the liquid can be released. They confessed they were members of a 20-strong team sent from Rehovot for the same purpose. Both have written their confession in Hebrew and signed it. We have taken the necessary medical precautions."

In Ben Gurion's War Diary, the following entry is found on 27 May 1948:

"[Chief of Staff Yigel Yadin] picked up a cable from Gaza saying they captured Jews carrying malaria germs and gave instructions not to drink water". This is typical of Ben Gurion's oblique writing of history. He was fully aware of the weight of history when such crimes are discovered. Nuremberg trials were held only three years before. More on the background of this cable was given in Yeruham Cohen's book, In Daylight and Night Darkness, Tel Aviv, 1969, pp66-68 (in Hebrew).

The criminals were executed three months later. On 22 July 1948, the [Palestinian] Higher Arab Committee (AHC) submitted a 13-page report to the United Nations accusing the Jews of using "inhuman" weapons and waging a genocide war against the Arabs through the use of bacteria and germs, developed in specially-built laboratories. The report also accuses the Jews (the word Israel was not used) of spreading cholera in Egypt and Syria in 1947/48. The story was picked up by the award-winning journalist, Thomas J Hamilton of the New York Times and published on 24 July 1948. The story now has a new twist- adding Egypt and Syria to the Jewish field of operations.

CHOLERA IN EGYPT AND SYRIA: The summer of 1947 was hot with diplomatic activity. The United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) was busy touring Palestine and Arab countries in order to propose the partition of Palestine such that the new Jewish immigrants to Palestine, who controlled only six per cent of Palestine under the British Mandate, be given a big chunk of Palestine (turned out to be 54 per cent) in order to establish a foreign state in the midst of Arab land.

The Arabs, still under the tutelage of Britain, were debating how to resist the Western-supported scheme to take away their land. The forces to reckon with were neighbouring countries with common borders with Palestine. Lebanon was weak. Trans-Jordan was still controlled directly by the British and King Abdullah was conciliatory to the Jews. This left Egypt, the stronger Arab country and Syria, recently freed from the clutches of the French Mandate. Syria was the centre of Arab resistance to the foreign occupation of Palestine. Training centres were established in Qatana to prepare Arab volunteers to enter Palestine under the banner of "The Arab Rescue Army". Egypt and Palestine were thus the most important targets.

In his 220-page continually updated report, entitled: Bioterrorism and Biocrimes: The Illicit Use of Biological Agents since 1900, dated February 2001, Dr W Seth Carus of the Center for Counterproliferation Research, National Defence University, Washington, DC, lists the following subtitle, p.87: Case 1947-01: "Zionist" Terrorists 1947-1948.

Under this section, he mentions that the cholera outbreaks in Syria and Egypt received extensive attention in the international press. The first report about the cholera in Egypt was published in the Times of London on 26 September, 1947, p4. By the time the final cases appeared in January 1948, 10,262 people died.

He also states that the outbreak in Syria is much smaller. It was limited to two towns, about 60 kilometres south of Damascus, i.e. close to Palestine border. The first report appeared in the New York Times on 22 December, 1947, p5.

The Syrian army formed a cordon sanitaire and the casualties were limited to 44, including 18 deaths. Soon after, the Beirut French-language newspaper, Orient, reported that several Zionist agents, who employed cholera to disrupt the mobilisation of the volunteers' army, were arrested. Their destiny is unknown.

These incidents, together with Gaza poisoning, Carus states, were described in the AHC complaint to the UN and quotes the report in saying that:

"The Jews plan to use this inhuman weapon against the Arabs in the Middle East in their war of extermination."

Carus adds information from other sources about the Gaza poisoning. Rachel Katzman, Horeen's sister, Carus stated, said: "I met one of [my brother's] commanders in a lecture in Jerusalem. I asked him whether my brother had really attempted to poison wells. 'These were the weapons we had', he said, 'and that's that.'"

Carus also adds another source about Acre poisoning: This source sates, "This account also claims that the Israelis poisoned the water supply of the Arab town of Acre, causing a major outbreak, and other Arab villages to prevent the villagers from returning, citing military historian Uri Milstein as a source" [Wendy Barnaby, The Plague Makers: The Secret World of Biological Warfare, London, Vision Paperbacks, 1997, pp114-116].

The writer has obtained a copy of an e-mail in which an Israeli peace activist asked Uri Milstein about Acre poisoning story. Milstein, the military historian, is described in the e-mail as "very knowledgeable, intelligent, courageous, original, honest" -- although his views belong to the Israeli far-right (!). Milstein replied:

"I am sorry to say it, but the story is true and the name of the operation was "Shlach Lachmecha" -- that is "donate your bread", which is a part of Hebrew saying: donate your bread because sooner or later you will get it back, meaning you have to be generous and one day, you will profit from it yourself. Is this not a cute name for an operation to use biological weapons?"

HOW DID BEN GURION START ALL THIS? On the fourth of March 1948, Ben Gurion wrote a letter to Ehud Avriel, one of the Jewish Agency operatives in Europe, ordering him to recruit East European Jewish scientists who could "either increase [our] capacity to kill masses or to cure masses; both are important". This truncated quotation is given by Avner Cohen who cited an author in Ben Gurion Research Centre at Sdeh Boker.

To understand the meaning of this quotation we must recall Ben Gurion's doctrine: the destruction of the Palestinian Society in Palestine is a necessary condition for the establishment of the state of Israel on its ruins. As a corollary to this doctrine, ethnic cleansing became an integral part of Zionism. If Palestinians cannot be removed by massacres and expulsion, they shall be removed by "extermination". Such words were specifically used in AHC letter mentioned above. The significance of this word is that it was rarely used by Arabs regarding their fate. Europe's horrors were either remote or not widely known then.

The caveat by Ben Gurion as "to cure the masses" is yet another twist by Ben Gurion with an eye on history. For it is inconceivable that the Arabs have the ability or the will in 1948 to cause "mass killing" of the Jews using biological weapons. As it happened, Ben Gurion was the first to use such weapons. His legacy, much more refined and expanded, remains true till today.

Avner Cohen, a senior fellow at the Center for International and Security Studies, and the Program on Security and Disarmaments at the University of Maryland, wrote a comprehensive paper on Israel's chemical and biological weapons, which was published in the Non-Proliferation Review, Autumn 2001. Notwithstanding his background, which furnishes a sympathetic understanding of Israel's motives, his paper traces in 50 pages of detail, from open sources and few interviews, the establishment and development of Israel's centre for biological terrorism.

Thrusting Israel in the heart of the Arab world, Ben Gurion was determined to achieve this extraordinary objective against all odds. "We are inferior to other peoples in our number, but no other people is superior to us in intellectual prowess," Ben Gurion remarked.

In the 1940s, he gathered around him Ernst David Bergmann, Avraham Marcus (Marek) Klingberg (from the Red Army) and the brothers Aharon and Ephraim Katachalsky (Katzir) -- all experts in microbiology. They formed the nucleus of the Science Corps in the Haganah during the British Mandate. Ephraim Katachalsky was named commander of this new unit, renamed HEMED, in May 1948. A dispute arose between Chaim Weizmann who wished to establish a scientific institute for "clean" science, while Ben Gurion insisted on building a "dirty" centre for biological weapons. Both got their wishes realised. Weizmann Institute for scientific research was built in Rehovot. A new unit within HEMED, devoted to biological weapons and named HEMED BEIT, was formed as a branch of the Israeli Army. Its head was Alexander Keynan, a microbiologist from the medical school at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

With the depopulation of 530 Palestinian towns and villages in Al-Nakba of 1948, many buildings and homes became vacant and over half of the Jewish immigrants in the 1950s were housed in them. The Chief of Staff Yigal Yadin selected a home for the new biological weapons development unit in a mansion located within a large orange grove west of Nes Ziona. This unit, publicly known as Israel Institute for Biological Research (IIBR), is still there today. The building was expanded, surrounded by a three metre wall, movement sensors and watch towers.

While IIBR represents the front of a scientific institution, producing a "clean" papers and receiving invitations to scientific conferences, the real biological weapons developed is carried within IIBR in a highly classified centre (Machon 2, one of four) funded and controlled directly by the Ministry of Defence.

IIBR Web site states that the institute's staff comprises 300 employees, 120 of them PhD holders, in addition to 100 certified technicians. But these figures are misleading because there are many other scientists who hold positions in microbiology departments in faculties of medicine in Tel Aviv University and the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

Ephraim Katzir was rewarded for his service to the state by being elected as president of Israel in 1973. Aharon Katzir was killed in the Japanese attack on Lydda airport on 30 May, 1972.

Soon after the poisoning of Acre and Gaza, Ben Gurion launched a crash project to develop "a cheap non-conventional capability" in 1955. Why the rush? As Cohen reports, Munya Mardor, the founder of Israel's Weapons Development Authority (RAFAEL), says that Ben Gurion was "evidently concerned that we would not meet the deadline he had set, worrying that the enemy would have such capability and we would have nothing to deter or retaliate". It turned out that the rush was to meet the deadline for the Suez Tripartite Aggression of 1956. Ben Gurion was prepared to bomb Egypt with biological weapons if his campaign failed. As if that was not enough, Israel signed an agreement with France to build a nuclear programme in the same year. Ben Gurion's emissary to France was none other than the peace-loving diplomat Shimon Pensky (Perez).

Anver Cohen says that the location of IIBR is classified and not shown on maps or aerial photographs. It is still possible, however, to determine its location with accuracy.

WHERE IS IIBR? In the 1930s, the road from Ramleh to Nabi Rubin, a popular religious site visited annually, passes through Wadi Hunein, a good sandy soil with spots of marshes. The wealthy Al-Taji Al-Farouki family from Ramleh purchased large tracts of this land and developed it into successful citrus groves which exported hundreds of thousands of Jaffa orange boxes to Europe. Shukri Al-Taji built for himself a beautiful mansion (photo) -- a two-storey rectangular building on top of a hill, on a plot of land, 134,029 m2 in area. The plot number is 549/32 and the property deed is entered in the Land Registry under E42/260 on 16 March 1932. He also built a mosque on the asphalt road from Jaffa to Qubeiba. On another hill, one kilometre to the west, his cousin Abdel-Rahman Hamed Al-Taji built a house which consists of several buildings. The mansions in the midst of vast orange groves depicted an idyllic scene in quiet surroundings.

This is the location chosen by Yigal Yadin for his biological weapons research. Shukri Al Taji mansion became the home of IIBR. The IIBR Web site (http://www.iibr.gov.il) proudly shows on the opening page its building entrance, which is nothing but Shukri's mansion with its arched façade and tall lush trees (compare with photo). Shukri died broken hearted in Cairo some ten years later.

If you drive from Nes Ziona going west on road 4303, then turn left at road 42 heading south, you will find IIBR at your right at a distance of 500 metres. (see photo of the location). The coordinates of IIBR are:

According to Palestine/ Israel grid : 128.263 E, 147.022 N

New Israel grid : 178.263 E, 647.022 N

Geographical coordinates : E 34D 46' 27 N 31D 55' 7

The area is called "Ayalon" in Hebrew. Directly to the west on the sea coast is the missile launching pad of Palmahim.

Other Al-Taji buildings were expropriated and used. The mosque is transformed into a synagogue, named "gulat Israel". Abdel-Rahman's house became a mental hospital.

CHASING THE CULPRITS: Sara Leibovitz-Dar is a persistent investigative journalist. The trauma experienced by her parents in their native Lithuania left an indelible mark on her. She abhorred injustice and, particularly, the meek acceptance of it. She investigated the Gaza and Acre poisoning and shooting down of the civilian Libyan aircraft. The Israeli military historian, Uri Milstein, identified for her the names of the officers responsible for biological crimes.

In 1993, Sara tried to interview the commander who was responsible for Acre poisoning. He refused to talk. "Why do you look for troubles that took place 45 years ago?" he asked. "I know nothing about this. What would you gain by publishing?"

Again, Sara interviewed the officer responsible for Gaza poisoning. He refused to respond, "You will not get answers on these questions. Not from me and not from anyone." Sara was persistent. She asked Colonel Shlomo Gur, former HEMED chief, whether he was aware of the secret operations in 1948. "We heard about the typhoid epidemics in Acre and about the Gaza operations. There were many rumours but I did not know whether they were true or not," he responded.

Sara published her findings in Hadashot under the title "Microbes in State Service", on 13 August, 1993, pp6-10. Sara, who now moved to Ha'aretz, concluded with the following comment,

"What was done then with deep conviction and zealotry is now concealed with shame." True to the Israeli tradition, Sara declined twice to respond by e-mail to an enquiry from the writer.

Not all are afraid to talk. Naeim Giladi is an Iraqi Jew who was lured to Israel by Mossad agents in the early 1950s. Working with the zealotry and dedication of a new Zionist, he soon found out that within the Ashkenazi establishment "there was not much opportunity for those of us who were second class citizens", he told the editor of The Link in New York where he immigrated after leaving Israel. "I began to find out about the barbaric methods to rid the fledgling state of as many Palestinians as possible. The world recoils today at the thought of bacteriological warfare, but Israel was probably the first to actually use it in the Middle East. Jewish forces would empty Arab villages of their population often by threats, sometimes by gunning down a half-dozen young men so that the Arabs could not return. The Israelis put typhus and dysentery bacteria in the water wells to prevent the refugees from returning". [The Link, Vol. 31 Issue 2, April-May 1998].

Another witness who spoke, former Mossad agent, Victor Ostrovsky, claims that lethal tests have been performed on Arab prisoners inside the IIBR compound.

THE DUTCH INVESTIGATION: On 4 October, 1992 at 6.21pm, El Al Flight 1862 left Amsterdam's Schiphol airport on route to Tel Aviv, carrying three crewmen, one passenger and 114 tons of freight. Seven minutes later, it crashed in a high-rise apartment complex in Bijlmer. El Al Flight 1862 became the worst air disaster in Dutch history, killing at least 47 (the actual number is unknown because many victims were immigrants) and destroyed the health of 3000 Dutch residents. Cases of mysterious illnesses, rashes, difficulty in breathing, nervous disorders and cancer began to sprout in that neighbourhood and beyond.

The Dutch government, in collusion with Israel, lied to its citizens saying the plane was carrying perfumes and flowers. Some flowers! It took the energetic and persistent science editor in the Dutch daily NRC Handelsblad, Karel Knip, several years to discover the facts. Knip published on 27 November 1999 the most detailed and factual published investigation about the workings of biological terrorism housed in IIBR.

First he found out that the plane was carrying 50 gallons, among other things, of DMMP a substance used to make a quarter ton of the deadly nerve gas Sarin, 20 times as lethal as cyanide. It was carrying a shipment from Solkatronic Chemicals of Morrisville, Pennsylvania to IIBR in Israel, under a US Department of Commerce licence. This is contrary to the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) to which the US, but not Israel, is party.

With dogged determination, Knip reviewed the scientific literature produced by IIBR and the microbiology departments of the Faculty of Medicine in the University of Tel Aviv and the Hebrew University since 1950. He was able to identify 140 scientists involved in biological weapons (BW) research. The number could be more as scientists have dual positions or they move around. Many take their sabbaticals invariably in the United States. There are strong links with Walter Reed Army Institute, the Uniformed Services University, the American Chemical and Biological Weapons (CBW) Center in Edgewood and the University of Utah.

Remarkably, Knip was able to identify three categories of IIBR production: diseases, toxins and convulsants, and their development in each decade of the five past decades. (See table)

The research moved from virus and bacteria to toxins because they are many times more poisonous. Nerve gases known as Tabun, Soman, Sarin, VX, Cyclo-Sarin, RVX and Amiton are all deadly gases and function in the same way.

Knip went further. He sought the assistance of experts in this field such as Professor Julian Perry Robinson, University of Sussex, Brighton, Dr Jean Pascal Zanders of SIPRI, Stockholm and Professor Malcolm Dando, University of Bradford. They guided his research and explained his findings.

Knip also discovered close cooperation between IIBR and the British-American BW programme. This programme deals with viruses and bacteria spread by rodents and insects and covers smallpox, fungal diseases and Legionnaires disease. It is to be noted that there was a breakout of this disease in Philadelphia some years ago, and, surprisingly, in an Eilat hotel in mid- January this year.

The interest in the plant poison Elate-Ricin is confined to very few institutions beside IIBR. It will be recalled that amateur biologists were arrested in UK in January attempting to prepare Ricin.

The novel and dangerous trend in BW research in IIBR is the development of incapacitants which paralyse, disorient, cause uncontrollable movements and severe pain in the stomach. Most of these incapacitants have antidotes to repair the damage done. These incapacitants have been and are used against the Palestinians in the Intifada.

There is also extensive collaboration on BW research with Germany and Holland. That is probably the reason for the Dutch official silence over the deadly crash over Amsterdam.

The cooperation with the US is quite open. The Congress "Joint Medical, Biological and Nuclear Defence Research Programs" openly lists cooperation with Israel on nerve agents and convulsants under the guise of finding antidotes. It is plainly simple to realise that in order to develop the antidote it is necessary to identify the poison itself. Dr Avigdor Shafferman, IIBR director, is a frequent contributor to this programme. (see http://www.acq.osd.mil/cp/nbc98/annexd.pdf)- Annex D.

The Preparatory Commission for the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) in The Hague turns a blind eye to the Israeli criminal activities. Ironically, Israeli researchers guide OPCW on methods to detect Chemical Weapons. Israeli researchers R Barak, A Lorber and Z Boger of IIBR, CHEMO Solutions and Rotem Industries respectively propose methods to detect chemical warfare agents. No international body seems to be willing to apply these methods on Israel.

The mechanism to do this monitoring is available. The American Armed Forces Medical Intelligence Center has the wherewithal to inspect suspect laboratories. But it is unlikely to see a team of inspectors headed by an American Blix searching the secret chambers of IIBR.

This may, however, not apply to conscientious scientists. Professor Keith Yamamoto, of the University of California and Dr Jonathan King of MIT criticised the American BW research and showed that attempting to modify toxins (as IIBR does) can hardly be considered "defensive" research. But Israel's turn in such criticism seems far-off at present.

THE PALESTINIAN VICTIMS: The biological crimes perpetrated against the Palestinians in Acre and Gaza in 1948 are still being enacted today.

In 1997, Mossad agents tried to assassinate Khaled Mish'al, Hamas Political Bureau's director in Amman. King Hussein was furious at the blatant violation of Jordan's sovereignty and of the Peace Treaty with Israel. As the attempt failed, thanks to Mish'al's bodyguard, Israel sent a lady doctor with the antidote. The toxin used is likely to be SEB applied through a special gun which has a range of 50 metres. and could inject the toxin in the neck.

The stories about nerve gas applied against school children abound. So are the cases in which CBW are used. Neil Sammonds lists these cases:

ï Chemical defoliants against Palestinian crops in Ain Al- Beida in 1968, Aqraba in 1972, Mejdel Beni Fadil in 1978 and Negev in 2002.

ï Chemical Weapons, including hydrogen cyanide, nerve gas and phosphorous shells in the 1982 war on Lebanon.

ï Lethal gas against Palestinian and Lebanese prisoners.

But the case which was widely publicised all over the world and fully documented by several international NGOs is the application of incapacitants, particularly in Khan Younis, in February 2001. The pictures of victims twisting with severe pain and uncontrollable convulsions were splashed on TV screens everywhere.

James Brooks of "Just Peace in Palestine/Israel" gave a detailed account of this BW attack on civilians day by day as it happened. First, the victims thought it was tear gas. It had a faint odour like mint. It smelled "like sugar", one victim reported. It changed colour "like a rainbow". Fifteen minutes later, the victim felt that his "stomach was torn apart, with burning sensation in [his] chest, could not breathe". Soon convulsions started. The victim would jump up and down, left and right, thrashing limbs around, with a kind of hysteria. Some victims were unconscious. The victim would vomit incessantly and then pain would return. This would go on for days or, for some, weeks.

In addition to the numerous press and human rights reports, convulsing poison gas victims in Khan Younis were filmed by the American filmmaker James Longley, in a documentary that "pushes the viewer headlong into the tumult of the Israeli- occupied Gaza". Longley compiled a 43-page document of interviews with 19 gas victims, their relatives, nurses and doctors.

These devilish incapacitants drew the protest of some NGOs but little else. No international investigation or censureship of any kind, even though this was repeatedly used in March in Al- Birch, Nablus and West Bank and yet again in Gaza later that month.

Just the contrary. There was a wide-spread Zionist- orchestrated condemnation and disapproval when, in November 1999, Suha Arafat, the president's wife, charged the Israelis with the use of "poison gas" in the presence of the aspiring politician Hillary Clinton. The height of hypocrisy and cynicism was attained when the incensed Israeli authorities declared that Suha's factual statement is "a violation of the peace process"!

There are as yet unseen and long-term effects of toxins and incapacitants. On 3 February, 2003, Dr Khamis Al-Najjar, director of Cancer Research Centre of the Ministry of Health in Ramallah reported an alarming increase in cancer cases, especially among women and children. The report covers the period 1995-2000 and shows 3646 cases, with more than half among females. The cases in Gaza are more than the West Bank. The report, citing the rate of increase, predicts that cases will triple in the near future. Taking note of the Israelis' paranoia about Palestinian demography and judging by their previous record, it is possible that the accumulative effect of the Israeli application of toxins and incapacitants has produced the increased incidence of cancer cases. A similar study is yet to be made on fetus and newborn babies.

WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? Israel has signed but not ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention and is not a party to the Biological Weapons Convention. Israel does not recognise the application of the Fourth Geneva Convention on the Occupied Palestinian Territories of the West Bank and Gaza, as the rest of the world does. This is not surprising. Israel violates every rule in the book.

Article 147 of the Geneva Convention stipulates that to "willingly cause [civilians] great suffering or serious injury to body or health" is a "grave breach", which, according to Article 146, requires all High Contracting Parties to "search for persons alleged to have committed or to have ordered to commit such grave breaches" and must "bring such person regardless of their nationality before their own courts". If this is applied, Sharon and his officers will stand behind bars in a Belgian court for a long time.

There is a plethora of conventions which Israel constantly violated, starting with Geneva Protocol of 1925 on Poisonous Gas to the 1993 Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling and Use of Chemical Weapons.

With this background, it seems a mockery of justice to despatch hundreds of inspectors to destroyed workshops and private homes in Iraq, while huge tons of weapons of mass destruction are staring them in the eye in Israel. Perhaps the 10 million people in 600 cities around the world who demonstrated against the war on Iraq on 15 and 16 February were trying to point out this irony in refusing this war. Some placards said so in clear terms.

Perhaps the domestic voice in Israel may be listened to more attentively. The Mayor of Nes Ziona, located a mere 10 kilometres away from Tel Aviv centre, complained that the proximity of IIBR to his city poses a great danger to the population, in case of accident. He is right. The Science Committee in the Knesset reported 22 casualties including three fatal cases in the last 15 years. But these were mild cases.

What would be the situation if a big accident happens on a windy day, causing explosion of tons of toxics and its evaporation in the sky, in a congested neighbourhood, where three million people live in an area of barely 1000sqkms, that is 35X35 km? Ben Gurion, while cooking his evil plans to "exterminate" the Arabs, did not envisage this scenario in his wildest dreams.

The writer is president of Palestine Land Society, London.

professional zionists routinely shift the guilt of their actions onto their victims.
It is a tactic used by a lot of guilty folks as a way to deflect the blame.
here zionists are busy accusing the Palestinians of rejecting the UN appropriation of their territorial ownership.
the arabs were provoked quite violently into a struggle with the early zionists who used all unconventional means avaliable to them to kick them out of their land.
The Palestinians who were fighting in self defense did flee in fear for their lives, and the original UN distribution of land was expanded to include an additional twenty three percent.

I'm beginning to realize now why Israel's supporters devote so much time and energy (and occasionally careers) to forcing everyone within earshot to listen to their version of events.

When one rationally examines the facts, it becomes all too clear who the aggressors and who the victims are in this conflict. Thus, the necessity to constantly propagandize and obfuscate a situation which could be understood by a twelve year old child.

Simply put, how could it ever have come to be that the Palestinians (the ones driven from their homes and brutally murdered in countless massacres through the decades) are seen as the "terrorists" while the Israelis are seen as victims of terror?

It is through an immense propaganda campaign that such simple facts could be turned on their head and the victims seen as the aggressors.

That was certainly true decades ago when Palestinians were seen as somewhere between Hitler and Satan. That's changed a little now with the advent of the internet and the dissemination of information which would normally be kept safely out of the American public's eyes.

What is disappointing is that, until only recently, this has been true of the Left in America as well. This is evidenced in the fact that there was hardly a peep out of the left as Israel massacred tens of thousands of Lebanese and Palestinian civilians in their indiscriminate bombardment of Beirut in 1982 with our weapons.

Another disappointing fact is that the media (and apparently search engines like Google now) take Zionist charges seriously and literally censor their stories (or exclude certain pages from their search engines) because Israel's supporters might claim such material is anti-Semitic in organized letter writing or call-in campaigns.

As an example, consider how the good folks at Rainbow Groceries dropped their bid to boycott Israeli products after the immense lobbying effort by hundreds of Israel's supporters (calling in and writing to the management -- they do the same with the news media and PBS.).

Israel's supporters have every right to conduct such campaigns if they so desire.

The problem is that normally intelligent and decent minded people take these charges (like "stop singling out Israel") seriously instead of dismissing them with the disdain they deserve.

"necessity to constantly propagandize and obfuscate a situation which could be understood by a twelve year old child"

Those who spend their time defending the Israelis nation, believe in its inherent victimhood.

They are not pretending, they are telling you what they think is reality according to their experience.

--"Those who spend their time defending the Israelis nation, believe in its inherent victimhood. They are not pretending, they are telling you what they think is reality according to their experience."

Undoubtedly, some of them sincerely believe that. But some of the others do know the truth and are professional propagandists for the state of Israel -- lying for it or spreading half-truths.

--"Israel's motive was to exist"

But that motive meant the destruction of the Palestinians' existence...

So the Israelis stole the Palestinians' homes and land for themselves so that they could exist. Is that alright? If not, why has Israel never made reparations to those robbed and killed?

I think the Zionists' advantage in this type of forum is that they experience no qualms about fabricating informations as they deem fit.

If Truth gets in the way, they just come up with more lies to cover for their last one... and so the ones who are interested in getting to the truth are instead busy debunking the latest fabrication.

It is a futile attempt to debate liars who'se sole purpose is to avoid the TRUTH.

Your exactly right. Not only that, it's exhausting business debunking the lies in their posts (which contain more than one).

The problem is, much of the same information is being offered up in the mainstream media which many people in this country depend on for their news -- believing it to be impartial and balanced.

If the American people were shown the daily brutality the Palestinians undergo under Israel's jackboot, the Occupation would end overnight because few would stand for it. Instead, such imagery is forbidden and all we're allowed to see is the rare Israeli victim, rehashed over and over for effect.

Can't we establish a truly independent video media that is not afraid to show much of the journalistic footage (like from Arab satellite channels) being captured in the Occupied Territories and in Iraq?

To save precious time in the future, dont give zionists the benefit of the doubt.
just assume they are actively deceiving those who criticize 'em.
They are always on the look out for scapegoats, so if they dread eing held accountable, they'll shift the blame on to the critic or their victim.
They never admit to their guilt, because they are always in self defense.mode...

Suddenly, in a matter of hours, we are to believe that half-a-dozen posters entered essentially the same post? Is this the "me too" cheerleading article? Not an original independent thought in the bunch? Or is it all being entered by one or two people (one who tends to use the same text for both "Title" and "Author"). Hmmm.

Anyhow, while the "message" is "don't believe the Zionists who must lie for their cause", the discussion here showed just the opposite.

I made a substantive response, SoL attempted to rebutt it (but dishonestly misrepresented his own source in point 2) and then I made a point-by-point rebuttal.

This was immediately followed by an extremely lengthy cut&paste spam-propaganda article (which has also been spammed as a new article) and then the "attack the messenger" syndrome.

What's been left out? An honest response to my 13 points. Scroll up to:

point-by-point
by KL Thursday July 03, 2003 at 04:36 PM

Let's give SoL a chance to respond, OK?

"I think the Zionists' advantage in this type of forum is that they experience no qualms about fabricating informations as they deem fit. "

Er... you must be a little slow. There is a huge amout of pro palistinian untruths and myths said on this board. then someone comes and proves them wrong with good references often back to palistinian sources. and then the pro-palistinian crowd ignores it and then brings it up again later.

It is the disadvantage of the pro israeli people on this board that most of them are ethical in their debating. But at the same time our advantage in that we are familiar with looking for good quality sorces and not quoting some hate site or whatever.

Zionists are always going to claim the moral highground even as they break every commandment issued by the rabbai moses.

Have fun arguing with the "evil zionist" in your head.

ZIONISTS ARE COMPASSIONATE AND DEMOCRATIC TYPE PEEP.

THEY ARE NORMAL LIKE EVRYBODY ELSE, JUST FIGHTING FOR THEIR SURVIVAL.

That's what the Nazis said. They weren't "aggressing." They were "defending themselves" against a Polish invasion.

>Israel was attacked repeatedly with attempts to destroy it by multiple countries,

So was Germany. They weren't just attacked, but defeated and looted.


>and that is over with,

That's what the Nazis said. A "thousand years" the Reich would last, they said. But it didn't. The world got fed up with them and that was that. Sooner or later, the world will get fed up with Zionism, too. The only difference between Zionists and Nazis is the ethnic group. The ideology is the same. Zionists are to Jews what Nazis are to Germans, and embarrassment to an otherwise admirable people.

It is clearly recognized that Germany attacked Poland (and others). Germany was the aggressor in WW II.

Similarly, it was the Arabs who rejected peaceful compromise and were the aggressors in the wars of 1948, 1956. 1967 and 1973.

> The only difference between Zionists and Nazis is the ethnic group.

Are you truly so blinded by your hatred or are you ignorant?

Zionism is the belief that Jews have the right to self-determination in the homeland where Jews have lived continuously for 3300+ years.

There is no supremacist ideology, no theology of removing "cancers". The State of Israel proves this, affording full citizenship with equal rights under the law to its citizens.


Still waiting for SoL's response to:

point-by-point
by KL Thursday July 03, 2003 at 04:36 PM

Zionism is the belief that Jews have the right to self-determination in the homeland where Jews have lived continuously for 3300+ years at the expanse of the Palestinians!

>It is clearly recognized that Germany attacked Poland (and others). Germany was the aggressor in WW II.

I was talking about WWI. The Nazis used the resentment of how they were treated by the allies after WWI, to gain support. The Zionists do the same with the Holocaust, and before that, the pogroms.

>Similarly, it was the Arabs who rejected peaceful compromise and were the aggressors in the wars of 1948, 1956. 1967 and 1973.

In all those cases, what Zionists call “peaceful compromise” would have been shameful and cravenly acquiescence to the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people by the racist, Zionist aggressors.

A *true* peaceful compromise would be a single, secular, democratic society in which one ethnic group did not dominate another.



>Are you truly so blinded by your hatred

My hatred does not blind, but enlighten me. I hate all racists, even if they are Jews. Zionists only hate racists who are not Jews.


> Zionism is the belief that Jews have the right to self-determination in the homeland where Jews have lived continuously for 3300+ years.

And how it this different from Nazism? Self determination by ethnic groups is racism, plain and simple. Jewish racist are no different than German racists, just better armed.



“There is no supremacist ideology, no theology of removing "cancers".

That’s a bald faced lie. That Jews should run a country, no matter who else lives there, is supremacist by definition. The Zionist leadership continually talks about “removal” and “transfer” and puts thier words into action whenever they can get away with it.

It’s no wonder that Zionists act so much like Nazis. They learned from their masters first hand, while they were actively collaborating:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/04/120352_comment.php#120573

http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/05/127448_comment.php#127704


>The State of Israel proves this, affording full citizenship with equal rights under the law to its citizens.

In name only.

False. In 1923, the Jewish Agency accepted the first partition of "historic Palestine", creating an exclusive Arab-only (no Jews allowed) Kingdom of Trans-Jordanian Palestine (eastern Palestine, across the river Jordan) on 80% of the territory.

As early as 1937, the Jewish Agency accepted the principle of partition of western Palestine which in 1923 had been designated as the Jewish homeland.

In 1947, Israel-to-be accepted the UN compromise. It was the Arabs who violently rejected UNGAR 181 and opted for war.

If not, there would have already been a (2nd) Palestinian Arab state and 56 years of peace.

See also:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/06/1623475.php

And if you think that the ethnic cleansing of non Jews from the land is anything new, read:

JS 6:21-27 With the Lord's approval, Joshua destroys the city of Jericho men, women, and children with the edge of the sword.

JS 7:19-26 Achan, his children and his cattle are stoned to death because Achan had taken a taboo thing.

JS 8:22-25 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped.

JS 10:10-27 With the help of the Lord, Joshua utterly destroys the Gibeonites.

JS 10:28 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Makkedah.

JS 10:30 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Libnahites.

JS 10:32-33 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Lachish.

JS 10:34-35 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Eglonites.

JS 10:36-37 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Hebronites.

JS 10:38-39 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Debirites.

JS 10:40 (A summary statement.) "So Joshua defeated the whole land ...; he left none remaining, but destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."

JS 11:8-15 "And the lord gave them into the hand of Israel, ...utterly destroying them; there was none left that breathed ...."

JS 11:21-23 Joshua utterly destroys the Anakim.

JG 1:4 With the Lord's support, Judah defeats 10,000 Canaanites at Bezek.

JG 1:6 With the Lord's approval, Judah pursues Adoni-bezek, catches him, and cuts off his thumbs and big toes.

JG 1:8 With the Lord's approval, Judah smites Jerusalem.

JG 1:17 With the Lord's approval, Judah and Simeon utterly destroy the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath.

JG 3:29 The Israelites kill about 10,000 Moabites.

JG 3:31 (A restatement.) Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an oxgoad.

JG 7:19-25 The Gideons defeat the Midianites, slay their princes, cut off their heads, and bring the heads back to Gideon.

JG 8:15-21 The Gideons slaughter the men of Penuel.

JG 18:27 The Danites slay the quiet and unsuspecting people of Laish.

1SA 7:7-11 Samuel and his men smite the Philistines.

1SA 11:11 With the Lord's blessing, Saul and his men cut down the Ammonites.

1SA 14:31 Jonathan and his men strike down the Philistines.

1SA 14:48 Saul smites the Amalekites.

1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

1SA 15:33 "Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord ...."

1SA 18:7 The women sing as they make merry: "Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands."

1SA 18:27 David murders 200 Philistines, then cuts off their foreskins.

1SA 30:17 David smites the Amalekites

2SA 8:5 David slew 22,000 Syrians.

2SA 8:6, 14 "The Lord gave victory to David wherever he went."

2SA 8:13 David slew 18,000 Edomites in the valley of salt and made the rest slaves.

2SA 10:18 David slew 47,000+ Syrians.

2SA 18:6 -7 20,000 men are slaughtered at the battle in the forest of Ephraim.

IS 13:15 "Everyone who is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their ... wives will be ravished."

IS 13:18 "Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children."

IS 14:21-22 "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."

Etc.

For more, if you can stomach it, click here:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.shtml

the zionists accepted to romove all palestinians from their homes to Jordan, that remains the generous offer...

In 1923, the Jewish Agency accepted the first partition of "historic Palestine", creating an exclusive Arab-only (no Jews allowed) Kingdom of Trans-Jordanian Palestine (eastern Palestine, across the river Jordan) on 80% of the territory.

As early as 1937, the Jewish Agency accepted the principle of partition of western Palestine which in 1923 had been designated as the Jewish homeland.

In 1947, Israel-to-be accepted the UN compromise. It was the Arabs who violently rejected UNGAR 181 and opted for war.

If not, there would have already been a (2nd) Palestinian Arab state and 56 years of peace.

See also:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/06/1623475.php