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Anti-G8 Revolt in Geneva
by Anti-G8
Friday May 30th, 2003 10:56 AM
An International Trade Centre (ITC) building housing the offices of WTO, UNCTAD and CCI had its windows smashed by some protestors. This took place just after some people attacked the premises of an Audi garage. One protestor used the Audi signpost on a wooden stick to attack the ITC's windows.
geneva_may30.jpg
Uk Indymedia:
Friday 30th

17:00pm - The Anti-repression and Legal Team confirms that 3 french citizens have been arrested in Geneva.

1:20pm - The demo has now arrived at Geneva's central station where it is due to finish. Athmosphere is still very festive, although there have been reports of some windows having been broken along the way.

1:00pm - An International Trade Centre (ITC) building housing the offices of WTO, UNCTAD and CCI had its windows smashed by some protestors. This took place just after some people attacked the premises of an Audi garage. One protestor used the Audi signpost on a wooden stick to attack the ITC's windows.

12:50pm - The demo stopped outside the headquarters of the World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) and now it is heading back into town.

12:35pm - The demo is now very loud and festive. People are carrying many banners, incluiding a big one that reads "Open Source!". Many people are dancing to the rhythms of a big Samba Band.

12:25pm - The situation outside the IOM building has calmed down and the demo is marching on. People returned police tear gas with confetti.
12:00pm - The demo has arrived at the headquarters of the International Organisation of Migration (IOM) Reports are coming in of police using tear gas against protesters gathered there.

11:40am - The demo is mainly peaceful and festive, although some cans and stones have been thrown into different buildings , including the Russian embassy.

11:15am - A 4,000 strong demo has stopped outside the headquarters of the WTO. Speeches about Open Source, against repression of information and for the freedom of movement are being made. The gates to the compound have been opened and bangers have been thrown into the courtyard. Before leaving the WTO, protesters tore down the 144-nation organisation's sign at the front gate and daubed walls with the slogan "Smash the WTO.

Demonstrators warm up for mass cross-border anti-G8 rally
May 30, 2003

GENEVA (AFP) - Some 3,000 demonstrators joined a "warm-up" protest outside the United Nations building in Geneva as tens of thousands began gathering for huge anti-G8 rallies set to straddle France and Switzerland.

Activists from Britain, Switzerland and Germany took part in Friday's largely peaceful protest march here under the banner "No Borders", shouting slogans such as "No Border, No Deportation" and "No to the Occupation of Iraq".

"We are here to defend asylum-seekers. Why can money pass through borders but not asylum-seekers," said one British demonstrator, who declined to be named.

According to an Internet site of the anti-G8 movement, the demonstration was organised by 'No Borders', a group campaigning for the free movement of people.

But Friday's demonstration could be just a taste of things to come with tens of thousands of people gathering in Geneva and in the nearby French town of Annemasse to join a huge protest on the opening day of the summit of the world's richest nations in the French town of Evian.

The first anti-G8 demonstration took place late Thursday in the Swiss city of Lausanne, which faces Evian across Lake Geneva and which will host leaders of 11 developing countries from Saturday, attending on the sidelines of the G8.

The Lausanne rally was largely peacefully and in a party-like atmosphere, with just a small group dressed in black among the some 5,000 participants having tried to provoke police by throwing cans.

A huge security operation has been put into place in a bid to minimise the violence which has marred other international summits. Two years ago in Genoa a young activist was killed when demonstrations at the G8 summit there degenerated into clashes with police.

Barricades, barbed wire, boarded-up shop windows and a heavy police and military presence shut down this corner of Switzerland for a long weekend.

Many banks, shops and businesses in Geneva's chic downtown have been boarded up for several days as a precaution and many intend to remain closed until early next week.

Germany has sent 900 police to help out their Swiss colleagues by standing guard over Geneva's airport, where most of the heads of state are due to arrive over the weekend.

The area where the United Nations and international organisations such as the WTO are situated will be off-limits Sunday when an estimated 50,000-100,000 people are expected to take part in the dual protests.

Swiss French-language newspapers expressed relief Friday at the peaceful nature of the first rally, with Le Matin newspaper calling it a "victory against hysteria" which has taken agrip of Geneva.

"It's a victory against the small idiots who believe you can resolve things by smashing everything up," said Aristides Pedreza, one of the anti-G8 organisers from the Vaud region where Lausanne is located.

The demonstrators are staying in "alternative" villages and will be marching simultaneously on either side of the French-Swiss border and meeting up at a border-crossing.

The initial estimates had spoken of about 300,000 people, but have gradually been adjusted downwards in recent weeks.

"The trade unions, who normally contribute, will be less present than planned," said Bernard Pinaud, of the non-governmental organisation, the Centre of Research and Information for Development.

Sunday's action is expected to begin with symbolic blockades of bridges in Geneva and across roads in Annemasse to try to hold up delegates headed for Evian.

"The social struggles underway are the outcome of the application of liberal directives advocated by the G8 in the areas of public services or education," Sophie Zafari, of the French FSU trade union.

About 200 protestors on bicycles meanwhile Friday blocked a roundabout in front of the Swiss-based headquarters at Vevey of food giant Nestle to demonstrate against the meeting of leaders of the world's eight leading industrialised nations.

More photos at:

http://germany.indymedia.org/2003/05/52809.shtml
§Smash the G8
by Anti-G8 Friday May 30th, 2003 10:56 AM
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§Smash the G8
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§Smash the G8
by Anti-G8 Friday May 30th, 2003 10:57 AM
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Comments  (Hide Comments)

by rev
Friday May 30th, 2003 11:40 AM
excellent excellent excellent
now wheres the north american counterpart?
by SACRAMENTO
Friday May 30th, 2003 12:28 PM
WTO in SACRAMENTO THIS SUMMER
MONSANTO EXECS, GM COMPANIES, and THE WTO

ACE OF SPADES
by jose
Friday May 30th, 2003 1:34 PM
yeah, its all about june 23-25 in sacramento california.
the wto and the biotech industry together.
this is a super important meeting too, the US is putting tons of pressure on the rest of the world to start eating US biotech foods.
by you DO nothing!
Friday May 30th, 2003 1:58 PM
yeah,yeah yeah yeah yeah its all about june 24-25in sacramento california.

the only thing that these protests have done is to extend the cocktail hour for the guests!

it's all about nothing!,
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by anon
Friday May 30th, 2003 4:13 PM
As it stands, these international trade organization meetings have to take place in a bunker-like facitility surrounded by large numbers of police just to function at all.

We most certainly "do something". These sustained anti-"free"-trade protests have brought opposition to the policies of these organizations to the attention of the entire world and kept that attention going for years now.
by anonymous
Friday May 30th, 2003 5:00 PM

"You are plague, a cancer of this planet, and we are the cure".

Capitalism is the cancer this time that only knows how the feed and spread consuming everything in its path. It takes and takes and never gives.

We must stop it before it is to late.


by Wow.
Friday May 30th, 2003 8:11 PM
Destroy the internet. It was designed by folks who worked for money, to make money.

Destroy your computer. Every step of the way, capitalism was involved. Someone wanted to make a profit, from the case to the keyboard and all parts inbetween.

Destroy your transportation. Anything other than barefoot and someone got paid.

Destroy your dwelling. The people who built it got paid to do so - same with the people who designed it, and made all the componets.

Got a cd player? radio? TV? Tape player? Any musical instrument, except something you handmade? Capitalism was involved. If you bartered with someone else for a handmade instrument - capitalism was involved.

Stores? A wonderful example of capitalism in action. Your local grocery has food year-around because of capitalism.

Destroy capitalism? You'd better have something as good or better to replace it with - and the old "From each according to his abilities to each according to his needs" doesn't cut it.

Who decides the abilities? Who decides the needs?

Who decides who decides?

Question authority - because what's smooth going down can be good for you, or poison.
by anarchist
Friday May 30th, 2003 8:39 PM
None of those things are the product of capitalism. They are the product of labor. We the workers make all that stuff. Capitalism produces nothing. It diverts the fruits of our labor from us to the capitalists. Capitalists are parasites who suck on our neck.
by or egg?
Friday May 30th, 2003 9:39 PM
Where does the money come from to build an airplane, to pay the labor to build it? For the engineers to design it?

Or a train? Or a computer?

A guy's got some land. Think he's gonna plant it in corn without an expectation he's gonna get paid a fair price for that corn? That's capitalism, not labor. He's working to make money.

That corn gets harvested. A combine's an expensive piece of machinery, with a lot of engineering behind it. Where did the company come from that makes it? It employs a lot of workers - but the workers didn't start the company to make combines. Someone thought they could make a good harvester, went to a bank, got a loan, hired engineers and other workers - and produced a combine they could sell. If the combine doesn't work well enough or costs too much, then it won't sell and the company will go out of business. If it sells well, the company can pay back the loan to the bank, and increase the pay of the workers and turn a profit.

That's being an entrepreneur, and a Capitalist. That he hires a couple hundred people who wouldn't otherwise be employed, that's a side benefit.

The corn gets sold to a cannery. Again - someone went to the bank, got a loan, and bought processing machinery to cook and can the corn. That machinery is made by someone looking to make money on the deal. Same with the cans. And, of course, the workers at the plant are looking forward to their pay too.

Same thing with the electric company that supplied the power to cook the corn. Where did the money come from to build the power plants and provide an infrastructure that virtually guarantees when you flip the switch you'll have power? That pays the crews? That pays for the coal for the boilers for the turbine?

You parrot the idea, anarchist - but you do not think it through. "Labor" doesn't exist in a vacuum. "We the workers make all that stuff." is technically true as a stand-alone statement, but not true at all when looked at as part of a much larger picture.

A tree can't function without leaves - but the tree is more than the leaves, and the leaves without a tree to support them would quickly die. And you're concentrating on a single leaf and missing a much larger tree.

You might not like it, but Capitalism works a lot better than anything else that's been tried over the centuries. It's not perfect - but it pretty mcuh works. Without it, you'd end up with a rural agrarian economy with no electricity, running water and sewers, gas, transportation aside from horses - and a life expectancy of maybe 40 years if you were real lucky.

Want to be a serf? I don't. And I don't want that future for my son.
by scottie
Friday May 30th, 2003 9:48 PM
haha you say "capitalism produces nothing"
you have accepted the logical fallicy that everything has a unique cause. (clearly you are an idealogue.)
the fact that a person made a computer or a part of the internet does not in itself fully answer the question of why it exists.
capitalism individual humans individual resources and various other things came together to create all of this - (moves his arm around in a sweeping motion)
....voluntary in nature,

where property is not ABUSED, the interacted amongst more that one person, in resources that involve more than one person is determined inter-dependently

YES, it is much more subtle in its cause and effectual inter-relationships, and I will agree that Marx had made some logically incomplete arguements in his model illustrating the ideal way to approach and counter corruption and abuse of property, through excessive ownership in areas in which it should NOT be owned, EXCLUSIVELY.... (yet (in BALANCE) private liberty must, (AND CAN QUITE EASILY)....

I get SO ANGRY with having to repeat this OVER and OVER again..... (That the public and private necessities can be in BALANCE,

that a LIBERTARIAN SOCIALISM (of individualism, rational anarchism, "open source"-type ideas, etc. etc. etc..... mutualism......

rational anarchism......)

CAN EXIST integrally.


The corruption today is in abuse of "property", and co-ersion through military colonialism, .....it is in the "theft" of PUBLIC necessities for ABUSE and SUBJUGATION OF BILLIONS OF people in the world....



for petty games.....

------(As though these neo-conservative "BLACK AND WHITE" thinking (individuals who believe that a NON-COERCIVE (small, independent businesses, diversity...., sustainability, etc. etc. etc......) capitalism, cannot exist alongside socialism...



DO NOT ETHICALLY defend capitalism.!! (Sure, one can say, that for practical purposes, individuals need their independent property./..... (YES....!! I certainly LOVE have certain things be 100% decentralized, private, constructed



P.S. ALL MONEY is, is a RATIO, a ratio, potential for the exchange of either 1. labor, 2. time, 3. ideas, or 4. materials.....


THERE ARE MANY SYSTEMS in which these things can construct computers, airports, complex systems of information........
The use of "private" property as COERSION is NOT NECESSARY.
and I
....voluntary in nature,

where property is not ABUSED, the interacted amongst more that one person, in resources that involve more than one person is determined inter-dependently

YES, it is much more subtle in its cause and effectual inter-relationships, and I will agree that Marx had made some logically incomplete arguements in his model illustrating the ideal way to approach and counter corruption and abuse of property, through excessive ownership in areas in which it should NOT be owned, EXCLUSIVELY.... (yet (in BALANCE) private liberty must, (AND CAN QUITE EASILY)....

I get SO ANGRY with having to repeat this OVER and OVER again..... (That the public and private necessities can be in BALANCE,

that a LIBERTARIAN SOCIALISM (of individualism, rational anarchism, "open source"-type ideas, etc. etc. etc..... mutualism......

rational anarchism......)

CAN EXIST integrally.


The corruption today is in abuse of "property", and co-ersion through military colonialism, .....it is in the "theft" of PUBLIC necessities for ABUSE and SUBJUGATION OF BILLIONS OF people in the world....



for petty games.....

------(As though these neo-conservative "BLACK AND WHITE" thinking (individuals who believe that a NON-COERCIVE (small, independent businesses, diversity...., sustainability, etc. etc. etc......) capitalism, cannot exist alongside socialism...



DO NOT ETHICALLY defend capitalism.!! (Sure, one can say, that for practical purposes, individuals need their independent property./..... (YES....!! I certainly LOVE have certain things be 100% decentralized, private, constructed



P.S. ALL MONEY is, is a RATIO, a ratio, potential for the exchange of either 1. labor, 2. time, 3. ideas, or 4. materials.....


THERE ARE MANY SYSTEMS in which these things can construct computers, airports, complex systems of information........
The use of "private" property as COERSION is NOT NECESSARY.
and I
....voluntary in nature,

where property is not ABUSED, the interacted amongst more that one person, in resources that involve more than one person is determined inter-dependently

YES, it is much more subtle in its cause and effectual inter-relationships, and I will agree that Marx had made some logically incomplete arguements in his model illustrating the ideal way to approach and counter corruption and abuse of property, through excessive ownership in areas in which it should NOT be owned, EXCLUSIVELY.... (yet (in BALANCE) private liberty must, (AND CAN QUITE EASILY)....

I get SO ANGRY with having to repeat this OVER and OVER again..... (That the public and private necessities can be in BALANCE,

that a LIBERTARIAN SOCIALISM (of individualism, rational anarchism, "open source"-type ideas, etc. etc. etc..... mutualism......

rational anarchism......)

CAN EXIST integrally.


The corruption today is in abuse of "property", and co-ersion through military colonialism, .....it is in the "theft" of PUBLIC necessities for ABUSE and SUBJUGATION OF BILLIONS OF people in the world....



for petty games.....

------(As though these neo-conservative "BLACK AND WHITE" thinking (individuals who believe that a NON-COERCIVE (small, independent businesses, diversity...., sustainability, etc. etc. etc......) capitalism, cannot exist alongside socialism...



DO NOT ETHICALLY defend capitalism.!! (Sure, one can say, that for practical purposes, individuals need their independent property./..... (YES....!! I certainly LOVE have certain things be 100% decentralized, private, constructed



P.S. ALL MONEY is, is a RATIO, a ratio, potential for the exchange of either 1. labor, 2. time, 3. ideas, or 4. materials.....


THERE ARE MANY SYSTEMS in which these things can construct computers, airports, complex systems of information........
The use of "private" property as COERSION is NOT NECESSARY.
and I
by ......___not necessary for organization....
Friday May 30th, 2003 10:43 PM
Money and private ownership is NOT necessary for complex creativity.


I consider myself an independent libertarian socialist,... who is FOR public assistance and programs, education....., ....socialism........., standards........

to assist to a level of equality where diversity, (TRUE competition, and a "true" "FREE" market can exist......)... NOT what we hear about and call "capitalism".

This model, the actions of the U.S., reflect co-ersion through material power..... (Closer, and akin, to

yes,

Agrairian serfdom, and feudalism, fascism for most of the world, co-erced through economic blackmail for cheap labor.....




It is the "American" imperial PRO-capital EMPIRE policies that are 100% divisive, genocial
earth-human species threatening


human---choice-- democratic personal choice threatening actions which are

threatening, corrupt...... and must be brought into balance.... (We need MORE awareness of the social needs of the world, and social policies........!!


We need MORE socialism,,............ (in BALANCE with individualism......)



not more abuse of the world by BUSHFELLA, mafia-fascist neo-conservatives, who CALL themselves "right-ist" and small government (or DEREGULATION to the ELITes ONLY...... while police state and imposition of fewer necessities meant to protect the poor from their ABUSE.....

, but are in fact PRO-POLICE-state,
pro-----large government, to subsidize wealthy ABUSE AND THEFT of public resources for "private" GREED....
Calling these "deregulations" on corporate greed and ownership over WHAT SHOULD NOT BE OWNED, "rights..."



nationalism-blind-patriotic FASCISM...



http://www.rationalanarchism.org



P.S. I agree with Steven DeVoy's views regarding economics. I consider myself a proponent of voluntary socialism.
by .......
Friday May 30th, 2003 10:44 PM
.....Another thing,: a certain amount of equality is necessary for competition, and monopolic models fail to address this issue.

When a person disagrees with the corruption of PRO-ELITE economic military blackmail, cloacked as a "free-market",

they/he/she is speaking from the VERY REAL URGENCY facing most of the world, outside of the elite circle of corrupt interests, monopolizing and attempting to remain "on top", by increasing restrictions to the movement of public necessities, such as water and education, homes, land, self-determination, while calling it,

ironically "property rights", (or the RIGHTS of the elite to exercise and restrict the rights of the "have nots")....


------------The emergency, currently resides in the abuse of "private power" DESTROYING, reducing "liberty", propagating elitism

Now, I am not saying everyone should be exactly the same. Diversity is beautiful, decentralization is essential, and in order to create autoletic, self-determined individuals who have reached their full potential, and acheive a level of "aristocracy" in their independent fields of thought and self-awareness
(while simultaneously seeing that all people are equal.... These simply means that these people are leading themselves, and continually learning, with independent respect, not held back by their surroundings or environment.....

THOUGH, the first step towards this level of ascension beyond one's environment in an equal world, is to have

1. food, water,
2. work, education (or self-education and access to information, or tools to communicate, construct and create, EVOLVE within one's environment in some way that is impactual.......

etc. etc. etc.......

-----The arrogance, the greed, the disgusting assault on human potential resides with the poor education systems, poor COMMERCIAL corporate media, concerned with destroying any other sort of power balance and independent music (etc....) constructed by creative individuals,

"aristocratic" in their presence, in that they are INDEPEDENT, creative and excell in their are of music, etc......



NOT BECAUSE they co-erce the rest of the world, other views, competition, into into non-existence. ......Or use the music industry to increase their share-holding position, destroy whole populations of other people around the world
by voluntary socialism??
Saturday May 31st, 2003 2:11 AM
. I consider myself a proponent of voluntary socialism.

(MUAHAHAHHAHAHA! ) - that made my day (MUAHAH!)

in reality there is no such a thing as "voluntary socialism"
is a great concept on paper..but in reality "it sucks!"
why do you think there are so many people wanting to immigrate??
by ...
Saturday May 31st, 2003 8:42 AM
Isn't that a lot like voluntary castration? Putting everyone else's needs in front of your own?

At what point do you go "Hey, I've got needs and wants and desires too?" and ask for someone to toss you a bone? And why should they give it to you?

Read "Animal Farm" - and wonder about people who urge you to voluntarily emulate Boxer the horse - the loyal worker (Labor) who got sold off for glue for the good of the Farm.
by ghostmeat
Saturday May 31st, 2003 8:44 AM
... is a good idea on paper too. But if you really believe our economy is based solely on the free exchange of goods and services in a laissez-faire, non-coercive sense, maybe you should take a look at our military spending and corporate welfare. You see, when groups like the WTO advocate unfettered capitalism, what they mean is "market discipline for you, but not for us." It's a system of exploitation, backed by violence. It's no different from the feudalism of the past, or the communism of the USSR. The guise of capitalism is just used for the leaders of the world to masquerade behind. So, when someone wants to smash capitalism, it isn't rubbing shit in adam smith's face - it's against the real-world manifestation of capitalism, symbolizing privelege and injustice.
by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Saturday May 31st, 2003 1:46 PM
ya,ya,ya...whatever..

goat-meat
you have a talent, you should work for the pentagon.
in cast of an invading army, we send out goat-meat
to give this speech and promptly he would boor the enemy to sleep!
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
by so - what would replace it?
Saturday May 31st, 2003 1:58 PM
Socialism? That's not viable. Neither is Communism.

Better have a replace ready and tested and operational for something that kind of works before you smash it.
by Scottie
Saturday May 31st, 2003 2:42 PM
----------DO NOT ETHICALLY defend capitalism.!!
- you trying to use mind control or somthing? we have basic proof.. compare the USSR etc with japan and sweeden and whatever other capitalist countries you might like to mention capitalism was just better. I am finding it hard to see how you can ethically oppose capitalism on results.

---------P.S. ALL MONEY is, is a RATIO
-- Money is a useful method of arranging efficient (or fairly efficient) distribution of labour. most other methods have been a failure since it requires someone to be smart enough to know exactly who should be doing what in society and how much of it. It is possible within a corporation for example where people are not paid for individual tasks they are just told what to do - but when it gets the size of a country it is no longer plausible.

---------Money and private ownership is NOT necessary for complex creativity.

- we are not saying they are necessary just that there will be alot more of it under capitalism than in your animal farm.

----------Agrairian serfdom, and feudalism, fascism for most of the world, co-erced through economic blackmail for cheap labor.....

- I note that facism blew the other systems of the world away when it rose in germany we came within a hair's bredth of being destroyed by a not so big previously crippled country in europe. I am happy we stoped it but bringing it up just disproves your own point.

---------------It is the "American" imperial PRO-capital EMPIRE policies that are 100% divisive, genocial
earth-human species threatening

- No that would be NAZI german policies.. we were on the other side remember? well I was anyway.

------------We need MORE awareness of the social needs of the world, and social policies........!!

That is meningless unless you have a "one world governemnt" and that same government is willing to crush individual countries that break the rules, otherwise your "problem" just emerges as ccapitalism between countries.. hmm we are back to EMPIRE again arent we?

-------.....Another thing,: a certain amount of equality is necessary for competition, and monopolic models fail to address this issue.

- there are efficient ways to improve this but they are not found in the socialist tool box.

----------- food etc

- haha here is your classic all people have a right to live and have a million children but we have too many people in the world argument.. hmm nice... how do you get around that paradox?
by chris cavers
Saturday May 31st, 2003 3:32 PM
These protests are surely proof that ordinary people world-wide are thinking. How many of us will it take to cause G8 leaders to modify their stance regarding the use of the planet's resourses? The young who are giving their energies to the protests are much admired and hugely thanked.
by Scottie
Saturday May 31st, 2003 3:47 PM
Stupid G8 organizers..
they should stop wasting money keeping these protestors under control. either hold the summit in singapore or some country that will just stop the protestors or on an island that the protestors cant get to (privately owned or somthing).
by Ovich
Saturday May 31st, 2003 4:20 PM
Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, Anarchy, all little words that summarize systems of billions of daily exchanges that are far too complicated for anyone to understand. Should you gain from your endevours, why not? Should you live with concern for your community, why not? Should you be treated equally under the law, why not? Should you have the freedom to access resources to pursue your goals, why not. All these questions are easily answered and yet the things done in the guise of our own good are very questionable. All this banter of what it should be is fairly irelevant. It is what it is. Expose it as it is. The truth will lead to the amendments that must occur. There will be a global government on this planet. It is inevitable, and not undesirable. The question that remains is will it be truthful, and therefore just. I hope so.
by Frank Lee
Saturday May 31st, 2003 6:14 PM
To all Wannabes,

Better yet. Read nothing. Think about nothing. Just be a sycophant-consumer. And don't forget the whiney national chant, "Why Do They Hate Us?"
by dumb and dumber go to g-8
Saturday May 31st, 2003 8:48 PM
How many of us will it take to cause G8 leaders to modify their stance regarding the use of the planet's resourses?

do you really think this silly little childish display will change anything? (no...) if you do you are as deluded as the nonthinking protesters that come out for a day to play "hippie" your whole "movement" (appropriately named) is laughable
by e
Saturday May 31st, 2003 9:07 PM
would morons please keep to your christian/nazi sites or wherever you like to hang out.

die, tools
by Anarchocommunist
Saturday May 31st, 2003 9:09 PM
The fact is, if these protesters can shut down this G8 summit, it will have enormous repercussions. Anyone who says differently is just afraid that we'll actually do it. Support your anti-capitalist troops!
by greenrose
Saturday May 31st, 2003 10:05 PM
You are supported by millions who can't be with you on the streets. Shut it down for good. We have just, safe alternatives available.
You're right. Protest is not enough. So what will it take?
by Hitomi26
(petitcitronvert [at] bluewin.ch) Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 1:28 AM
Really? What alternative? To kill the Kapital, as I saw written on several walls? Honestly, without the capital money, where do you hope to go? Because that's the money that allows an enterprise to begin its activities and to keep it afloat, which means it will be able to give work to people and keep these people employed! Without capital, there is no work and without work, there is only unemployement and poverty! And don't tell me the state is a better manager than private entreprenors! There are too many examples that show the contrary. And the problem with state management of all economic activities (like in former USSR or in present-day socialist countries), is that, when it makes a mistake, its usually a huge one that affects everyone, poors and riches, but it's true, the poors get more affected!
As for the WTO, someone has to regulate international trade or it will turn into a chaotic zoo. Many third-world country are member of it and want to stay as such because it is their only way to make their voice heard at the international level. It's also their only way to pressurize our government into lowering the protective barriers they have arisen in order to keep our over-producting agriculture and textil industries in business, thus denying millions of other producers around the world a fair access to the Western markets. And naturally, the first one to fight against the lowering of these protections, are, well, you guys and your accomplices from the left-wings parties, because you think that rich people and multinational just have to pay so that everyone can keep producing at the rate they want without taking into account the real needs of consummers! So, please, stop shouting slogans and come up with real, implementable solutions!
by miss trixie
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 2:07 AM
"The fact is, if these protesters can shut down this G8 summit, it will have enormous repercussions. Anyone who says differently is just afraid that we'll actually do it. Support your anti-capitalist troops! "

You actually believe that even a sizable percentage of these fools protesting are anti-capitalist or even know what capatilism is. That's absurd. Your anti-capitalist trrops are virtually all bored kids who want a chance to go around wearing masks and breaking windows.
Big fuckin' deal.

Capitalism is OBVIOUSLY the only economic sytem that works. It will OBVIOUSLY be around forever and all the inane blatherings from such an insignificant minority as yourselves won't change that.

You're all the same bunch of dummies who protested against the war in Iraq. You did NOTHING. The war came and went. It was a glowing success and you all have been shown to be morons.

Keep up the good work.


by anti-capitalist
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 3:19 AM
The fact is, the Iraq War was a disgusting and homicidal display which is now leading to almost daily murders of US troops. The fact is, almost all of the people protesting are anti-capitalist, and everyone said we would go away after September 11th. Now we are showing you that we will never go away. We will disrupt your shit and we will continue to do so, with more and more effectiveness. We will sabotage the occupation of Iraq. We will sabotage the occupation of Palestine. We will sabotage this entire system until we have room to develop a society based in equity and fairness. And there's nothing you can do about it, pig.
by a
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 6:48 AM
> the internet

Military (government) funded, developed in academia.

> your computer

Ditto.

> your transportation

Originally a byproduct of the military-industrial complex. Includes state-funded roads, bridges, freeways, public transit, etc.

> Got a cd player? radio? TV? Tape player? Any musical instrument, except something you handmade? Capitalism was involved.

And so was the government, especially in R&D.
by just wondering
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 8:41 AM
Then why are American soldiers still being killed?
by gramsci
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 9:06 AM
One day folks like miss Dixie will take their patriotic paper bag off their head to discover that the bullshit the american media feeds them is so far out side of the truth that any one from another country wonders how they conjure up these fairy tales and get the public to by it.

News flash america YOU DIDN'T LIBERATE IRAQ. Read some foreign news sources, learn of the popular rebellion against the US occupation that kills american soldiers almost daily. They don't want you there. They, like the rest of the world don't trust america as far as they can throw them. Read how oil companies with ties to the white house were awarded contracts worth billions to clean up Iraqi oil feilds. Read how months after the war the US is still trying to figure out why they went to war, it couldn't of been WMD because like the number of votes needed to make George W. Bush officialy winner of the 2000 election, they wern't there. Ah Democracy...

I know they don't like emphasizing history in the american classroom, but any basic understanding of the world yeilds this: NOTHING STAYS THE SAME DUMBASS. Sure you like capitalism and it seems in control for the time being but are you so stupid to think it is going to be around for ever? You must be a christian, blind faith like that can only brainwashed into someone. But seriously take a look at history to find clues to what our future may look like. Read about revolutions and why they happened, what systems they have brought in and why they worked or didn't work. You will also learn of people who were terribley disapointed to learn that the system they thought would last forever was tossed away like garbage in a matter of years. If you don't like Socialism, Communism or Anarchy you at least better get used to the idea of some form of a socialized organization of society one day being the dominent system on the planet because its coming and Globalization is bringing it faster. Maybe you should go protest.

Trixie you will be one of those people if you don't pull your head out of your ass and take a look around.

I'm not a radical of any kind but I am a political science major and I'll tell you its time to wake up.
by worker
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 9:39 AM
>Got a cd player? radio? TV? Tape player? Any musical instrument, except something you handmade? Capitalism was involved.

Every one of thise things was produced by workers, not capitalism. Capitalism's involvement was/is limited to enabling a small class of parasites to profit from work done by others.
by bqe
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 10:26 AM
millions protested Bush's war. there's no mistaking that. but as far as a revolution against "globalization" - - there is no cohesive movement. i think there will have to be adjustments to corporate power in the new economic world order. people won't stand for wars that are waged merely to profit large corporations. other than that.. no all-encompasing revolution on the horizon.
by yo know
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 12:14 PM
Protests may not appear to WORK the way some might think but they do serve a greater purpose. To demonstrate to those who feel misrepresented, frustrated, used, and abused so the greedy can dice up this world in smaller bits and putting that burden on the poor and working class, that they are not alone. Demenstrations may not change the minds of the powerful elite that are trying to control the world for their own personal gain, but it does liberate those who feel isolated in their belief that something has got to change for the good of all the planets people not just the people who reside in countries that have money and security(however false that sense of security is). When are these victims of Western propaganda going to realize that the majority of the planet are sick of being walked on so these rich, energy wasting, war mongers can have more money and more power. Capatalism is not a sustainable econmic system. It can only work if it is constantly expanding, growing, consuming. How much can it consume? How far can it go before it's all gone?
For those of you who see protests as a bunch of kids smashing shit are only kidding yourself. The destruction may be counterproductive, but focusing on frustated people smashing a starbucks or a car dealership is smallbrained. Seeeing that tens upon tens of thousands of people(old and young) gathering to show disgust is not a fad, it is as real as your ignorance. The world is pissed and it's just going to get worse unless the west takes the boot off the poor of the world's throat.
Poor in the U.S.-
ps- Captalism may have produced my guitar but in my vision of a better world there will still be guitars.
by thombanjo
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 1:21 PM
Yeah, maybe the protests won't cause the dictators to drop their suspenders and head for the hills, but it's a hell of a lot better than just sitting around jerking off. Protesting is like exercising a muscle: if you don't flex it now and then, it atrophies. Sometimes the higher ups and their personal bodyguards (la policia) have to be reminded that if the people really wanted to, they could rise up and tear down anything they desired. You think a few hundred cops with handguns are going to keep a crowd of tens of thousands from laying waste to that which they please or, if threatened, tear their opponents limb from limb?
But a protest should not be taken as a direct threat. We still want peace, above all. We always have and always will. We just need to remind them (and sometimes ourselves) that the power really is in our hands, if only we choose to exercise it.
by And that's why
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 2:36 PM
<blockquote><i>

Give credit where credit is due.
by worker Sunday June 01, 2003 at 09:39 AM

>Got a cd player? radio? TV? Tape player? Any musical instrument, except something you handmade? Capitalism was involved.
Every one of thise things was produced by workers, not capitalism. Capitalism's involvement was/is limited to enabling a small class of parasites to profit from work done by others.
add your comments</i></blockquote>

Which explains why the USSR in it's prime was the leading exporter of electronic equipment and consumer goods worldwide, and why China, who is experimenting with capitalism, is currently failing miserably in the world markets.

Or -

From the Princess Bride -

A giant, a swordsman and their ring leader kidnap the Princess Buttercup to take her to the foreign land of Gilder. As they are sailing along, the giant announces that he thinks they're being followed. "Inconceivable" the ring leader says. But sure enough, a boat appears behind them on the horizon. So they quickly sail to some huge, rocky cliffs, called the Cliffs of Insanity, which the ring leader says only the Giant will be able to climb. But as the Giant, carrying everybody, climbs the mile-high rope up the cliff, the pursuer also begins climbing. "Inconceivable" the ring leader says, "climb faster!" They reach the top and quickly cut the rope. But when they look over the edge of the cliff, the pursuer is still climbing, now on the face of the rock. "He's still alive. Inconceivable!" cries the ringleader. And the Giant looks at him and says, "I don't think that word means what you think it means."

Same thing with labor, and capitalism. You see labor as the source of all good, and capitalism as the source of all evil. Very Marxist, very 19th century, very binary. Things have changed a bit since he wrote it 156 years ago, ESPECIALLY the way businesses and government treat their workers. If things were as they were then, I'd agree with you. Even up until the Unions started and got a good foothold in the US, I'd agree.

But not now.

And not now ESPECIALLY after we've seen some full-scale experiments in Communism. There hasn't been a one of them that didn't cannibalize itself, fail economically, or start shifting to a Capitalist way of thinking. (And yes, I'm including China. Mao's "Great Leap Forward" damn near dropped them back to a pre-industrial economy, and it's only been since they started allowing company owners to KEEP some of the profits they made that they're prospering.)

Which brings up an interesitng little bit...

<blockquote>"There can be no doubt that China's reorientation in agricultural policy had a massive impact on the farmers' capacity to feed the population. <b>China's political reforms have greatly boosted food production since 1978. The introduction of family farming on land rented from the state on a long-term basis has released the long-suppressed entrepreneurial spirit among Chinese farmers. </b>Although the land is still legally owned by the state, the farmers now consider it as similar to private property. They are more motivated to increase its productivity and maintain its fertility. The introduction and liberalization of food markets and the gradual decline of the subsidized food distribution system run by the state, have opened up new possibilities for farmers. <b>Those in close proximity to urban areas can sell their products on the free market. This has promoted greater market orientation in agricultural cultivation, which is a precondition for a commercial agricultural sector. This trend is clearly mirrored in the greater diversity of food production since 1978, which now includes more vegetables, fruits, tobacco, tea, meat, and fish.</b> Although China's agricultural reforms since 1978 have also had some negative side effects, these are far outweighed by the benefits."</blockquote>

http://www.iiasa.ac.at/Research/LUC/ChinaFood/argu/impact/imp_71.htm

And this...

Economic Issues 8 -- Why Is China Growing So Fast? <blockquote>
Why Is China Growing So Fast?
Zuliu Hu
Mohsin S. Khan

©1997 International Monetary Fund
June 1997
PDF File (122k) also available. Use the free Adobe Acrobat Reader to view pdf files.


[Preface] [Why Is China Growing So Fast?] [Measuring Growth]
[A Surprising Find] [Why the Productivity Boom?] [A More In-Depth Look][Conclusion] [Author Information]



Preface
The Economic Issues series aims to make available to a broad readership of nonspecialists some of the economic research being produced in the International Monetary Fund on topical issues. The raw material of the series is drawn mainly from IMF Working Papers, technical papers produced by Fund staff members and visiting scholars, as well as from policy-related research papers. This material is refined for the general readership by editing and partial redrafting.

The following paper draws on material originally contained in IMF Working Paper 96/75, "Why Is China Growing So Fast?" by Zuliu Hu and Mohsin S. Khan of the IMF's Research Department. Rozlyn Coleman prepared the present version. Readers interested in the original Working Paper may purchase a copy from IMF Publication Services ($7.00).

Why Is China Growing So Fast?
In 1978, after years of state control of all productive assets, the government of China embarked on a major program of economic reform. In an effort to awaken a dormant economic giant, it encouraged the formation of rural enterprises and private businesses, liberalized foreign trade and investment, relaxed state control over some prices, and invested in industrial production and the education of its workforce. By nearly all accounts, the strategy has worked spectacularly.

While pre-1978 China had seen annual growth of 6 percent a year (with some painful ups and downs along the way), post-1978 China saw average real growth of more than 9 percent a year with fewer and less painful ups and downs. In several peak years, the economy grew more than 13 percent. Per capita income has nearly quadrupled in the last 15 years, and a few analysts are even predicting that the Chinese economy will be larger than that of the United States in about 20 years. Such growth compares very favorably to that of the "Asian tigers"--Hong Kong, Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan Province of China--which, as a group, had an average growth rate of 7-8 percent over the last 15 years.

Curious about why China has done so well, an IMF research team recently examined the sources of that nation's growth and arrived at a surprising conclusion. Although capital accumulation--the growth in the country's stock of capital assets, such as new factories, manufacturing machinery, and communications systems--was important, as were the number of Chinese workers, a sharp, sustained increase in productivity (that is, increased worker efficiency) was the driving force behind the economic boom. During 1979-94 productivity gains accounted for more than 42 percent of China's growth and by the early 1990s had overtaken capital as the most significant source of that growth. This marks a departure from the traditional view of development in which capital investment takes the lead. This jump in productivity originated in the economic reforms begun in 1978. </blockquote>Capitalism works. And China's copying it.

They discard what doesn't work. They aren't fools.
by Scottie
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 2:45 PM
Capatalism is not a sustainable econmic system.

- what is a better system? remember you dont just have to point out flaws you have to actually show us you have a viable alternative.

by mike
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 4:24 PM
It's not about having a detailed plan for "a viable alternative to capitalism"; it's about creating new structures of power within the ones that exist now. That's what libertarian Marxism or anarchism or whatever you want to call it is all about. Dude.

Capitalism didn't emerge because a bunch of capitalists came up with a detailed plan for a new society. It rose out of the struggle between groups in society for control of culture and production.

No one loved capitalism more than Marx. He was wrong about most things, but he was correct that it's the struggle between classes that helps set the stage for what follows.

Unlike Marx and Lenin, today's new social movements understand that the institutions that challenge power have to be as democratic and liberatory as possible, or else despotic workers' states will replace despotic capitalist states.

That's Professor Mike's lesson in political theory for today. Now back to the barricades, everyone!
by Scottie
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 4:40 PM
Well it seems to me that capitalism works OK in a far as you and I have a higher standard of living than we would have 100 years ago. we are relitively free to do what we want etc etc.
Most other systems involve us haveing minimal freedoms and a much lower standard of living. (look around at them) let alone the system of "true anarchy" (the result of not having any viable plan) which is even worse than anything that is here now.

Unlike Marx and Lenin, today's new social movements understand that the institutions that challenge power have to be as democratic and liberatory as possible, or else despotic workers' states will replace despotic capitalist states.

- hmmm ok that sounds alright except I dont know how you can prevent capitalism emerging as it appears you would be finghting against nature in a way here.

I am willing to accept other possibilities than capitalism but I just dont think any of the idealistic ones suggested by the left would work in practice
by mike
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 5:30 PM
But again, my point is that capitalism is not a self-enclosed system that excludes all alternatives. Many (not enough) workers in the U.S. enjoy 40 hour weeks, 8 hour days, health insurance, and weekends off. Each of these benefits was won by unions and the left, often after violent struggle.

Such struggles were not successful in, say, Brazil, and so few workers there enjoy the beneftis of their own labor. It's capitalism, but it's nothing anyone would volunteer for.

One of the many reasons the U.S. has staved off some of the social problems that plague societies like Brazil and Venezuala is the distribution of land. In South America, large estates emerged quickly after the Spanish arrived, forcing peasants into tenancy. In the U.S., the founders--the government--intervened aggressively to insure that the West didn't follow the same path. Small plots of land were given out for free and settlement was encouraged. By today's standards, it was "socialism," but it worked.

An exception was the South, where large plantations thrived, choking commerce and democracy.



by richy rich
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 8:24 PM
G8's going forward.

Me and mine get what we want. We always have. We always will. Others much stronger and much more organized than you can ever hope to be have tried to stop us for millions of years. They didn't.

Your desires are not worth consideration.
by The aliens
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 8:53 PM
are out tonight.

Probably selling "To Serve Man".

Gah, I hate those cookbook salesmen...
by Scottie
Sunday Jun 1st, 2003 11:25 PM
I agree that there is a role for government in legislation for work and also as a guiding hand (i mean in a singapore sort of a way).
but just as giving all the control to large plantation owners might stifle development (particularly by putting too much power in the agriculture sector) so too can giving too much power to workers.
anyway some balance is OK but there is never a perfect solution.
by Dannyboy
Monday Jun 2nd, 2003 5:01 AM
The rebellion is grassroots and it is growing.

Individuals have an astonishing amount of power to limit / destroy capitalist institutions simply by choosing where they spend their money.

I for one refuse to buy anything that is not fairly produced and traded. This means, local producers or non-profit NGO-supported industry. It is easy if you know how.

Want to know why the dollar is failing? Because people are refusing to buy into the phony "American Dream" any more. All across Europe and the rest of the world, US products are sitting on the shelves as your average consumers finding buying goods from the largest arms-exporter / polluter on the planet leaves a bad taste in their mouth.

In a capitalist world the shit rises to the top, because it takes a truly heartless person to live a multi-million dollar lifestyle in the face of widespread poverty, disease and death.

Wake up, think globally, act locally.

There is no need to confront the machine head on. Just develop and support alternatives to by-pass the beast.

The sit back and watch it crumble...

Peace people,
no borders, no fear!
by Communism failed.
Monday Jun 2nd, 2003 7:41 PM
You place your faith in ideas printed in 1856, and ignore the changes since then.

Your privelege - but you might wonder why you're living in crappy circumstances ten years from now. You'll rail against the machine, but ignore the fact you've been in near-minimum wage jobs (those of you who's parents don't support you) for the last decade, yet thinking you're making progress when you have demonstrations against what you'd privately like to have for yourselves.

I spent a couple years where you are now, twenty years back. It was fun - but I woke up one day and realized that I was one paycheck away from eviction. And that there wasn't anyone to bail me out - if I wanted to do better, I had to quit the bookstore and get a real job. Luckily, that was at the beginning of the computer revolution, and I found I had a talent for making sense of Microsoft products.

So, I became a filthy money-grubbing bastard. Inside of two years, I had a down-payment for a house. I shaved - and about a year later I found I could afford a NEW car that got better mileage than my old Toyota. And didn't leak oil nearly as badly.

This stuff is something to toy with. Don't make the mistake of thinking you've got a future in it. All the folks I saw who tried it... well, consider this.

Folks like the Raging Grannies are celebrated, right?

Because there's damn few people over 30 who still believe. And, in my experience, those who believe would still believe if St. Marx came down and confirmed that his theories were shit and caused the deaths of hundreds of millions worldwide. Not to mention the idea of not bathing or shaving as a social protest gets really old when you get past 30.

But hey, have fun while you can. One day you'll get tired of it.
by Fred
Monday Jun 2nd, 2003 9:27 PM
Had to quit the bookstore job and become a raging capitalist - beautiful.

It's obvious you yearn for power, most likely for reasons from your childhood. But many people don't, and will be happy with not being defined by a job and being able to shop at Ikea.

It's not easy - our culture rewards empty shells of humans who simly accumulate wealth, no different than a computer program - but some people can connect to other people, and to nature, and to ideas, and if you've ever stayed all night at a drumming circle, or even just until the moon comes up, you get a feeling of what that is, the huge world beyond capital, beyond feelings of power, and before all that. Even just for a moment, you know, all of a sudden, what's really wrong about our whole culture.

And breaking out of it only happens in fleeting instances, when you're least expecting.

Good luck to you - you're still at the stage where your projecting all your own needs onto everyone else, rather than just seeing people as thier own selves, with their own autonomy and ability to make choices as adults. You're still angry that no one stood up for you, or was there for you. But they will be, when you let go of the power, and take the chances. Good luck to you.

Remember, being evicted is scary, but being without a soul . . . priceless.
by The folks I left want 'power'
Tuesday Jun 3rd, 2003 5:34 AM
in being able to tell others (and, with luck, FORCE them) to do what we thought was best.

I gave up seeking 'power' like that. Because there's very little difference between Earth First and the Greens - and a dictatorship like Saddam or (dare I invoke it, knowing Godwin's Law?) Hitler.

Both knew what was best. I decided I needed to decide what was best for me, not let someone else decide it for me - which is what you do if you adhere to the 'movements'.

But hey, if you like conforming to nonconformity - more 'power' to you.

(Never set foot in an Ikea store, btw. I prefer Mission style...)
by communist individualist
Tuesday Jun 3rd, 2003 12:04 PM

<Because there's very little difference between Earth First and the Greens - and a dictatorship like Saddam or (dare I invoke it, knowing Godwin's Law?) Hitler. >

bullshit.

is that how you justify your self-serving complacency?
how pathetic.

you may fashion yourself a self-possessed, free-willed individual.

but in truth, you're a small-spirited, self-seeking coward (with Bohemian pretensions).

in other words: you're a dime a dozen mothafucka. nothing more.
by I tell you I chose against
Tuesday Jun 3rd, 2003 4:29 PM
the stupidity in the movement, and you get all hostile.

That's another reason I left. Freedom of choice - but that's only as long as it's the right choice, isn't it? Choose the wrong way, and the real personality of the movements come out. Capitalists don't care if you disagree - but Communists do. Look at your reply.

You can't imagine that someone could look at what you embrace, and having embraced it realized what a lie it was?

Oh, don't you dare question things and think for yourself, Communist Individualist. When you do, you'll find answers - and you'll be shunned for even thinking about asking the questions. You conform as bad as any wage slave ever did.
by communist individualist
Wednesday Jun 4th, 2003 8:27 AM
<That's the reason I left.>

So, you left the "movement"? I don't hold that there is ONE movement at this moment in history, so, pray tell: what movement did you belong to? If we're going to bother with this back-and-forth it's time for you to get a bit more specific.

<Freedom of choice - but that's only as long as it's the right choice, isn't it?>

You don't know me. I relish debate (and am quite sure i could whip your ass if we were to go tete a tete). What I can't stand are sanctimonious whiners.

<Capitalists don't care if you disagree...>

so long as you're a servile little toad who doesn't get in their way, yes.

<but Communists do. Look at your reply.>

This is a debate forum. You sounded like a simplistic, whining jerk and I responded accordingly.

<You can't imagine that someone could look at what you embrace, and having embraced it realized what a lie it was?>

Now, you're souding like a former member of a Leninist sect. True? All I can say to you is don't project your syndromes and insecurities onto me.

<Oh, don't you dare question things and think for yourself, Communist Individualist. When you do, you'll find answers - and you'll be shunned for even thinking about asking the questions. You conform as bad as any wage slave ever did.>

You're awfully comfortable assuming things about me. Since all your assumptions are wrong, and can more aptly be inferred as projection, I ask you to step back and ask yourself what questions do you now fear asking lest your new "comrades" (the scientologists?) shun you forever.


by It's all about the force, isn't it?
Wednesday Jun 4th, 2003 8:39 AM
Not about choice - can't have choice.

"I relish debate (and am quite sure i could whip your ass if we were to go tete a tete). "

Yep. Communism in action. Ain't it great?

"All I can say to you is don't project your syndromes and insecurities onto me. "

He doesn't have to. Look at it. He puts up questions, and you... well. You know what you do. Who's insecure - the guy who was secure enough in his own ideas to go "This is bullshit" and leave, or the guy who's blasting him for leaving?

Communism was NEVER about choice - it was about force. Look at Czechoslovakia.

"Towards the end of the 1960's the strict regime of Communist Czechoslovakia began to relax a little. In January 1968, Alexander Dubcek, a Slovak born in Uhrovec, became the first secretary of the Communist Party. Dubcek was one of the truly great men of the C20th, under his leadership Czechoslovakia entered a period of liberalization.

For about half a year Dubcek's Czechoslovakia, and his 'socialism with a human face' was the focus of Central Europe, as well as the rest of the world. Censorship was abolished, which was unheard of before in a Communist State, and Czechoslovakia enjoyed a limited Democracy.

Meanwhile, Moscow frowned upon Dubcek's actions, scared that his liberalization Policy may spread throughout the Warsaw Pact countries. Their reaction was one of force, sending in tanks from the Soviet Union, as well as from Hungary, to restore 'order' back to the hard-line communists.

In the seventies and eighties, to ensure there would never be a repeat of the Prague Spring, the Communists adopted a policy of Normalization - a modern version of Stalinism - which meant that in the 70's Czechoslovakia now had the most severe regime of all the Communist countries, including the Soviet Union."

Dissent will not be tolerated. Frredom of Choice? Not acceptable! Someone left? UNACCEPTABLE! It's GOTTA be a fake!

Nobody leaves, unless it's feet-first!
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