Looting = Freedom! Call for SF Solidarity Looting on Saturday

Are you with the govt? Cause I have a hard time believing anyone else would write this on a website that the govt. is definitely monitoring. So please take your propaganda to another site. I don't support the govt. and I won't support people emulating their worst behaviour. If you need to act out, please do it in a way that is creative and more pointed, and doesn't engender the safety of others.

This is totally UN-Funny, more clearly put, STUPID. Please do not undermine the splendid efforts of so many by publishing this trashy stuff....it is not even anywhere near humorous...it is just what the conservative press would love to publish as headlines...in fact I predict that in less than 24 hours, we will see just that.

If there is a monitor here, delete this rubbish.

It shows the absurdity of our government, once again. Every rule is broken, laws don't matter, judges are bought, representatives are MIA.

Why contain the looting to Iraq?

I say we loot our government of it's occupants.

ANYONE who thinks that ripping off other people's things and breaking them and causing mayhem is "freedom" is someone needing a LOBOTOMY because your brain fails to work with any form of sense, and the rest of the people in the CIVILIZED world don't need you or your genetic material to remain within our species. Perhaps the rest of us can come to your places and rip you off and deface your property and cost you money, you faceless pantywaist jackasses with no sense of what is right. And if you don't like what I have to say, too bad, I have freedom of speech. It isn't just for the jackasses of the world.

... what fun could looting be?
All the stuff in those stores on Market St. is useless crap.
No value to anybody but a consumer.
There's places to get free food, so no need to loot Theftway.
We can get free music, so leave that Virgin alone.
OK, what's left to loot? Antiques? Nah.
The only useful booty could be otc meds and first aid supplies, which might become neccessary in the ensuing iron-fisted repression.

No, Amy is right. This is Naughtyspeak.
(Someone who thinks he's) God is watching. And his punishment will be swift and terrible.

Besides, the Real Villains would welcome looting. It doen't affect their war-profit businesses and gives them more power. And it WILL give them more power. Let's not do that.

z-m

Kate,
I thought it was the major corporations destroying the world, keeping us too tired and fucked to care and think, that were the people we didn't want in our species. After all, the US government declared they are people. I have no problem breaking and stealing their things and costing them money.

<3 one of those crazy anarchists

We're just having a little conversation over toast and coffee.

Hell, we haven't even gotten into arson, bombing or snipering - the favorite tools of right-wing domestic terrorists.

Wake up first, then start typing.

jaNa

ps. I've spent a lot of time with jackasses (we call 'em 'burros') in the Sierra. They're a lot nicer than pro-war supporters. Smarter, too.

CIVILIZED? Your choice of words is frightening..it is notions such as civilized that have fueled the flames of racism throughout the world for centuries.

First of all the guy at the top had a point about freedom=looting...the rest of you need to take a serious chill pill and meet together later for another rendition of Blowing in the Wind...

Action does not stop with the end of this war...Action continues for what is to become a revolution against the New World Order.

For those of you who had no sense of humor maybe you should not get up so early!!!!

All testosteroned up, being paid a pittance dieing and killing to make rich men richer, and the rest of us poorer. . .How much money are you going to make my man? Not much, I'm sure. The same can't be said for the millionaires running the Bush Administration. Get a grip on your sentimentalism, it won't feed your babies.

Thanks for protecting us from the wooden bullets, assholes. It's government paid hitmen like you, "just following orders", that come home and fill jobs in Bush's Homeland Security ("SS").

As a previous poster put it: "Every rule is broken, laws don't matter, judges are bought, representatives are MIA."

As a previous group of Americans put it: "...that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

This is surely the posting of a cop!

Don't be fooled by it. Cops have a history of inciting illegal behavior to criminalize protesters. Be smart, keep cool, and don't loot! It's a set-up, and besides, we're not living in Iraq. Big difference here.

This is the WORST thing I've seen posted on this site, and I suspect it's the work of the POLICE or something because it's just so completely FUCKED UP.

This is a NON-VIOLENT movement. Don't DISCREDIT us with this BULLSHIT and don't be so SELFISH. You'll just be fucking us ALL. Thanks a lot!

For you people to even consider looting as a sign of protest just shows your true colors. You will make the majority of Americans who are PROUD of their country and their president, look even better by your actions!

If you want to make a difference, become a human shield.

The whole point of this is that looting is NOT violent, it is an expression of freedom.

How can you say George Bush is right about such and such but not about this?

THE WHITE HOUSE SAID LOOTING IS FREEDOM

If all we you want to do is march in a permitted march, then do it. If you care at all about stopping our government, then consider that your self-righteous attitude isn't needed in the struggle.

You are morans. Morans Morans Morans.
Let me be more clear: YOU ARE MORANS.

If you actually believe ANY of the nonsense that this site proclaims as fact than you can only hope to someday become a moran after years of study.

I used to wonder where all those people lived who can't find Mexico on a map. Now I know they're all right here in good old SF.

morans.


my god you people are so dumb.

Aren't you pro-war types paying attention? The only person who seem to think this is a good idea is the original poster. The rest of us - who are actually interested in speaking out for PEACE - think the idea of looting in protest is a dispicable idea.

It's also probably a setup. Or at the very least an unimaginative hoax.

No one here is really interested in following through with this incredibly stupid idea. Stop looking for reasons to villify an otherwise peaceful group, ok?

It's spelled moron. Maybe you should ask your Conservative buddies to proofread your indymedia rants before you post 'em next time.

Mr. Moron

To the individual calling us "morans":

Are you trying to be witty by using the French spelling of moron?
Or are you calling us anti-semites such as Congressman James Moran?

Or do you just not know how to spell moron?

What a crap idea. Must be a COP! Oh, they'd love to see some looting. Gives them, and the gov't, just what it's been hoping for: the chance to portray the peace movement as one full of degenerate punks, which we are not. Be more creative than that.

It's NOT a non-violent movement. Maybe YOUR movement is non-violent. Maybe even MY movement is non-violent, but the movement on the whole, is not.

Theres no reason to wonder if you are going to discredit the "movement" with your actions, honestly the mainstream doesn't give a shit how "reputable" we are, so do something that will actually cause a response. Marching down a pre-ordained path isn't going to accomplish this. Blocking an intersection then calmly going off to jail when asking isn't either. Blocking the flow of goods from the Oakland docks, will. Shutting down Bechtel, will. Destroying records in the INS, will.

<3 Part of the VIOLENT anti-war but the class war movement.

ha ha! i had a good laugh over the "call for looting" this morning. uh, does anyone else get sacasm? guess not... that's too bad.

Everybody knows to target the chain stores and corporations, and to leave any Mom and Pop stores (the few that are left in SF) alone, right?

I say go for it.

To the people who are going ballistic over the idea of it: Try breaking a few rules now and then. It would be therapeutic for you. You're obviously stressed out. It's time to relax the bunghole, unbunch the panties, put your head between your knees if you need to, shake it out, whatever you do to release tension. All together, now, exhale...inhale...repeat...

That is some funny stuff.
This was obviously written by someone who doesn't understand anarchism.
People who practice anarchism don't recruit. Anarchism spreads by attraction not promotion. People who practice anarchism get together with their affinity groups. They decide what to do by concensus and do it. They don't try and coherse the unwilling. That is a fascist tool not an anarchist.
This person is obviously someone who has fascism so deeply engrained into his being that he doesn't even notice his similarity to the "men" of the Bush regime.
I find it funny that most people who categorize themselves as anarchists these days have no idea how to practice anarchism.
Anarchism goes much deeper than just "fighting the man."

It is astounding that some fools would actually ask what people are so afraid of. Do you think the cops will just stand around and watch while some punks loot?

Historically, one of the tactics used to suppress the left (including by the FBIs COINTELPRO program in the 60s that murdered many Black Panthers) has been to covertly place provocateurs in the midst to provoke looting or violence so that cops have a pretext to bash heads, make mass arrests, or even commit murder. The government is already equipped with the USA Patriot Act that will permit it to label demonstrators as "terrorists" and hold them indefinitely without trial, and there are many conservatives itching for the crackdown and trying to drum up the necessary political support (check out http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31827, for example). This is not the time for people to have illusions about their "democratic rights" or restraint on the part of the capitalist state.

I do not know if those calling for this are provocateurs or just reckless idiots. But the effect is the same, and it is not just they who will be caught up in the net of repression; it will anyone in the vicinity, and possibly many who were not. Whether they are consciously provocateurs or not, the effect is the same, and this is sinister. Demonstrators must not permit this provocation in their midst. They must confront them and prevent them from endangering the whole demonstration with the provocations. Let them go off on their own, in their own splinter group if they like. But we must beware of the tactics of the police state; we must harbor no illusions and have no tolerance for those who wish to sabotage -- consciously or otherwise -- the attempt to build a movement with a real base and real social power.

People lets not dellude ourselves. Peaceful demonstrations are not going to persuade the government all of a sudden give up its class rule against the proletariat, at most they can help spread our message to other possible militants, but unlikely considering these marches are mostly filled with pacifist hippies with no class consciousness or clear solution to global oppression and war.

Those condeming violence against the state and capitalism are nothing but pacifist , pro-capitalist reformists, if they realize it or not.

So wait.

I thought looting was good because when the Iraqis did it the whole corporate media celebrated.

Sooo I'm confused.

Should we loot or not?

Do Iraqis now have more freedom than we do?!!??

It's a simple concept, what's so confussing.

These people have had nothing for many many years. There are very few in this country who can say that. Well let me restate ...... There are very few people in this country who have not been rewarded for hard work. The Iraqie people have been taken advantage of by a hateful dictator.

It's funny to me to think that your upset because you can't loot. Well, you can't. So get over it. Thank your lucky stars that your not walking around tons of rubble looking for scraps.... What a looser you are. It's obvious that you have been born into money you haven't earned or you wouldn't be so keen on taken things away from hard working citizens.

One of the beauties of this anti war movement has been the fact that people from all walks of life come to them, people with children, old folks, the disabled. We are going to LOSE THOSE PEOPLE if you guys are going to act like thugs and punks. I am not a pacifist, I believe that stuff has it's place, but only when it is strategically to our advantage. In this case it will not be.
Why not go to Pacific Heights or Tiburon and do it? We've already been discredited by what some have done thus far. I don't want to lose the soccer moms, etc, THAT is what gives us credibility.

And those who can't spell the word MORON are where?

Nice try. Some of us are familiar with COINTELPRO and won't fall for it.

In this political climate I'm sure this won't be considered entrapment or inciting to riot. But it's still a rotten, illegal thing to do.

(BTW, I used to think that COINTELPRO was something paranoid hippies made up, but no, it's a matter of historical record. See the link below.)

I think the devils in the white house are far worse than the devils of J. Edgar Hoover's day and it is hard to beleive that they are not doing even worse here. They have a license to kill they abuse to the maximum extent and all of the Iran/Contra traitor/terrorists are back with this administration and Henry "the Butcher" Kissinger is in good favor as well.

Personally I think the post is a "food for thought" prank and may better have been presented as such, or a frustrated reaction to the unprecedented suppression of free speech here in bush's 'murka. Intelligible speech for that matter. This US regime and it's propaganda machine may be unstoppable. Germany was only stopped by two superpowers many times it's size when they used these identical tactics in ww2.

This is not to say I advocate looting San Francisco. Or Iraq. I do not share Bush Incorporated's empathy with looters.

You have been protesting this war for how long now? Have you really accomplished anything for you cause other than a total loss of respect?

I'll list your accomplishments thus far.

1. You shut down traffic in major cities and succeeded in pissing off thousand of people trying to get to their jobs? But, YOU DIDN't STOP THE WAR!

2. You've vandalized a few SUV's, pissed off their owners and insurance companies. Thanks to the actions of people like you, everyone's pocket books will suffer when insurance rates go through the roof. I'm sure most of you don't even own a car, hold down jobs, so why should you care? Oh, and in case you hadn't noticed? YOU DIDN'T STOP THE WAR!

3. You tried to shut down docks, but instead you pissed off the cops and ended up getting shot with wooden bullets. YOU STILL DIDN't STOP THE WAR!

I have to ask why you continue to protest?

Did COINTELPRO also orchestrate black blocs in Quebec, Genoa, Seattle, Washington DC, Los Angeles, Gothenburg, Greece, Turkey, etc etc etc?

Grow up. The reality is that 20,000 people marching from Civic Center to Delores Park changes NOTHING besides making a few people in San Francisco feel good about themselves. Now, you may be ok with this because you really don't give a fuck and you want to go back to being a soccer mom and protect your precious lifestyle which is paid for in blood by innocent people around the world, but don't go so far as to copbait a movement which has barely proved itself.

I thought wow, finally some levity, some creativity in the anti war/capitalism movement. Oh, I realize that those two movements have nothing in comon ;) . It is about peace bruuther and seeestar
Looting totally equals freedom, hasn't anyone here ever seen the Simpsons. I know life is about more than the Simpsons, but like every episode where the world is about to end or civil society starts crumbling or the power goes out, people go directly to looting. And yeah it is funny as shit, deal with it. It might not be politically correct or even intelligent, but who cares we are people and have a right to be stupid, but not aggressively stupid like our "leaders".
Imagine potlatch, there is an essay somewhere about looting as modern potlatch. Sure it is nuts, but can anyone point to sanity as something that is prevailing.
for the sake of the world keep laughing and keep fighting.

There is no such thing. There is and anti-war movement. There is an anti-capitalism movement. They overlap. That overlap is not a movement.

Yet.

I doubt this "call for looting" was written by a real anarchist, because an anarchist would not call themselves a "san francisco fedayeen." For those who don't know the fedayeen are or were a militia/death squad loyal to saddam hussein. A real anarchist would not identify with a totalitarian goon squad (the fedayeen).

As for looting, why in san francisco? I'm no pacifist (I consider myself an anarchist) , but I believe more would be achieved by attacking those that profit from the war, the petro companies, haliburton, bechtel, defense contractors, fox news, cnn, the chronicle, etc. . In what way should the war profiteers be attacked? That is entirely up to people to decide.

A great way to start would be to expose the investors in these companies that hold an interest. Expose these investors and their ties to the current government.

Spread the word, inform the public- perhaps the families of soldiers do not know why their sons and daughters are risking their lives. Keeping the public informed will keep the current movement alive- and perhaps lead to radical changes at home. Think about it, as long as the corporate media control and censor information, there will be no informed public- and that's what this lovely site is all about-- making information, that is not found in the mainstream corporate media, available to the public. An informed public is a THREAT to the interests and order of the state- why do you think the foreign journalists were targeted by the US/UK in iraq???

The state with its power can quell any riot in due time but never our inquisitive minds! A public informed of the crimes (mass murder, rape, torture, intimidation, beatings, police brutality, the peddling of drugs to urban minorities, evictions, pollution) committed by their state(s) will DEMAND change- perhaps even radical change. Just keep that in mind in these coming days.

I wrote this to counter any misconception people have of what anarchists want and do- we are not the nihilistic monsters that the corporate media and some academics (stephen zunes) portray us to be. We are working for a world free of corrupt murderous states.

-Darksyde straight to you from the heart of the Mission ;)

I suggest you don't do it in Burlingame......LOL LOL

I didn't say I was against black bloc tactics, and I certainly don't think the police coordinate them. I didn't say I was particularly thrilled by the permitted marches, though I think they have their place. What I don't think has a place, even in the anarchist strategy, is indiscriminate looting. I appreciate the possible satire in the original post, but I am expressing my concern that the poster is presenting an inaccurate (possibly dangerously inaccurate) idea of anarchist tactics. ("looting is a valid expression of freedom. As anarchists, we couldn't agree more.")

If you have some idea of what anarchist tactics and philosophy are really about, great, this post looks like satire. If you don't (as I would guess most readers here don't, including myself until recently), it just adds to your misunderstanding and makes for a great justification to dismiss the anti-war and anti-capitalist movements (which is what made me think COINTELPRO, though I admit that might have been an overreaction). I appreciate the responses here by people who know more about actual anarchist beliefs than I do. Your posts are educational.

Darksyde, before you decide to act like you know, you should check your facts. Fedayeen is a generic term, used by Saddam's police force, but originally used in other contexts. My suggestion? Get off your ass, go to google, and search for "fedayeen" and then talk. Its a little rough to accuse someone of being illegitimate without even getting your facts straight first.

I took your suggestion and did a search for the term. I found two uses for the term, one that applies to palestinian guerilla fighters in the 1950s, and the other one applies to the irregular unit of hussein loyalists. currently the term is used to describe the irregular unit of hussein loyalists.

The first use of the term:

Fedayeen
The Palestinian refugees displaced by the Israelis in the Palestinian war were not content to go quietly into the night. In the Sinai and Gaza Strip, some refugees organised themselves into a group of guerrilla fighters, the Fedayeen. This group continually raided Israel from across the border throughout the 1950s.

source: http://www.dingwall.bc.ca/history/main.php3?cat=terminology&listing=Fedayeen

Current use of the term:

Saddam's Martyrs ["Men of Sacrifice"]
Fedayeen Saddam
The paramilitary Fedayeen Saddam (Saddam's `Men of Sacrifice') was founded by Saddam's son Uday in 1995. In September 1996 Uday was removed from command of the Fedayeen. Uday's removal may have stemmed from an incident in March 1996 when Uday transfered sophisticated weapons from Republican Guards to the Saddam Fedayeen without Saddam's knowledge. Control passed to Qusay, further consolidating his responsibility for the Iraqi security apparatus. The deputy commander is Staff Lieutenant General Mezahem Saab Al Hassan Al-Tikriti.
The Fedayeen, with a total strength reportedly between 30,000 and 40,000 troops, is composed of young soldiers recruited from regions loyal to Saddam. The unit reports directly to the Presidential Palace, rather than through the army command, and is responsible for patrol and anti-smuggling duties. Though at times improperly termed an "elite" unit, the Fedayeen is a politically reliable force that can be counted on to support Saddam against domestic opponents.

Sources and Methods
"Inside Iraq's security network - Parts One and Two" Sean Boyne JANE'S INTELLIGENCE REVIEW Volume 9, numbers 7 & 8, July and August 1997
IRAQ Middle East Security Report Vol 1 No 9 - 5 March 1997

source url: http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/fedayeen/