SF Gate poll on OPD use of force.

People have already explained on here how they can easily repost their vote over and over and over if they have the knowledge on these fake polls. What we need to do is get rid of these polls, since they're not real and have disclaimers.

They're like beacons of our future - false polls with disclaimers that an uninformed (and soon, a highly uneducated population) will assume is real. Saves them a lot of money and they get to fix them however they want.

Your time would be better spent asking the Chron to get rid of these polls that are easily manipulated and thus show false information.

How long before the Iraqi people win against their new occupiers? Indymedia hasn't lost a thing with the end of Saddam Hussein's regime. Heck, I love seeing a good statue-toppling as much as the next leftist, especially if the statue is of a living (?) dictator. The Iraqis are right to celebrate the end of the previous regime. But I really doubt any of them are celebrating the arrival of the new Bush dictatorship.

"The Iraqi people have won against Saddam Hussein." The Iraqi people did not fight Saddam Hussein and have lost their autonomy, oil reserves and much civilian life.
The American people have lost against G.W. Bush and his fascism. We have lost our democracy and the constitution it was based on, respect in the entire rest of the world and the relative national security it brought to us. We have lost all semblance of fairness in legal matters both domestic and international with kangaroo courts here and utter contempt for international law .
No one should be "proud" to be an illegal invader of defenseless 3rd world countries, even if they believe that these murderous "compassionate conservatives" are there out of humanitarian concerns for the people of Iraq. Look how we have left Afghanistan. Look. All we have accomplished since the "war" in Afghanistan is to build the oil pipeline that the Taliban refused permission for in August 2001, a couple of weeks prior to the leisurly attacks via passenger planes on the Trade center and Pentagon. Little else has changed there. People are still starving, rape gangs roam the country in numbers and more.
Being a rogue nation with weapons of mass destruction who invades other's countries at will is nothing to be proud of. Lying to the electorate for is treason.

As most of you may know, the hate filled ring wing idiots at Free Republic flood every poll. This is no exception it was listed on their site. i suggest everyone go to every poll they cite and anti-freep them! Peace!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/search?s=FReep+poll&m=all&o=time

"If we kill 1,000 innocent Iraqis, it is a huge improvement over a typical year under Saddam"
UN/US sanctions have killed many more Iraqis than that and left many malnourished children with no medicine. The sanctions didn't hurt Bush's Dad's old buddy, Saddam, much at all.

"Totalitarianism is Totalitarianism, whether on the right or on the left." Or in the USA today.
"Actually, Saddam's ruling Ba'ath Party was, by its own description, a Socialist regime. Al Qaida criticized it as such. Sure, you can say that it was fascist like Nazi Germany, but remember that Nazi was the nickname for the "National Socialist" party.
Hitler was not a socialist, Saddam Hussein was/is not a socialist and I am not a socialist. I would not say Saddam is/was a fascist either but I will say loud and clear that Bush Incorporated are fascists and have hijacked our democracy for their personal desire. ;
fas-cism (fash-is-em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with a belligerent nationalism. [from-It fascio, bundle, group.} fas-cist n. & adj. -The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language
Oh, and Stalin, under the banner of the Communist Party, killed over 20 million of his own people. Not to mention Kim Jong Il.....
I don't think anyone thinks of them as liberal. You are correct and it is wrong to equate liberal with left. wonder where that idea came from?

To Mr. Reality, who previously posted photos of Iraqis showing support for Americans:

There is no question that people who have been oppressed would rejoice at the ousting of a dictator. If someone came and liberated us from Bush, I'd wave their flag, hand them flowers, and kiss their picture, too.

Hussein is a villain, but that doesn't make Bush the hero. Bush will clear the way for a kind of oppression that is even more difficult to fight than what they've experienced before. Bush will put Iraqis in charge who will sell their own people out to international corporations. Those corporations will put in more roads and cars to pollute their land, take over basic services like water and electricity and make them pay three times what they paid before, open factories in their country and employ them at slave wages, and create a dependence on foreign products that they won't be able to afford. They will simultaneously be employed by and be forced to purchase what they need from corporations. No matter who they work for and who they buy from, the same people who own numerous corporations will profit. The Iraqi people will go into debt. They will try to pay off their debt with oil, with labor, and with their lives. It will be very difficult to notice how they are slowly becoming slaves to corporations. There are a lot of curtains and smoke and mirrors. It will take them a long time to figure out that the same people who liberated them are the same people who profit from their misery. Is Bush a liberator, or a slave master in disguise?

Actually, Noel, the people who gained most with UN (not US) sanctions were the oil-producing states in the region -- Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, etc. Not coincidentally, these states argued for continued sanctions. They have real economic interests in limiting Iraq's oil output, much greater than any Haliburton (et al) contract work. The French also have a huge economic interest in Iraq, as arms dealers.

Remember, sanctions were a part of the "containment" policy. After 12 years we needed to decide if Iraq was a) in clear violation of the armistice (a trigger for war), or b) fully in compliance, thus lifting all sanctions and resuming full international cooperation (and arms dealing) with the Saddam regime.

Anyway, that's the way I see it.

Where did the "Totalitarianism is totalitarianism" quote come from? Who were you responding to?

"Afghanistan is looking to go along to be something good too"

Depends on your point of view.

excerpt from

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ED10Ak03.html

"The only militants who have been able to seize the moment are those in Afghanistan, whose concerted campaign against foreign forces in the country began when US President George W Bush issued Saddam Hussein a 48-hour ultimatum to step down or face war.

Afghan guerrilla troops are now attacking US and allied forces across Afghanistan and Afghan President Hamid Karzai has virtually become a prisoner in his palace in the capital Kabul. The most daring raids have taken place in Zabul, Paktika, Paktia and Hilmand, where Afghan official troops surrendered to Taliban forces. Their weapons were confiscated, and they were set free with a warning not to cooperate with US and allied forces.

Reports emerging from Afghanistan indicate that much of eastern and southeastern Afghanistan has been recaptured by Taliban and Hizb-e-Islami forces led by Gulbuddin Hikmatyar, even though the Kabul-appointed provincial governors remain nominally in charge. The situation is expected to further deteriorate in the coming weeks. "

KS

the white house took all the money for rebuilding or restructuring Afghanistan out of the budget.

By your logic, should we proceed to take over all the dictatorships in the world? There are dozens, most of which the US helped create in the first place. Should taxpayers fund the takeover of Burma, North Korea, Pakistan, Cuba, China, Syria, Iran - a dozen countries in Africa?

"Where did the "Totalitarianism is totalitarianism" quote come from? Who were you responding to?"
There were a lot of Propaganda Machine victims posting in here earlier and that is a reference to our own totalitarianists, Bush Inc., and his internet brown shirts. There was also mention of Stalin and other "left wingers". These spam posts have been deleted and I am probably a fool to waste my time with them, but it is hard to resist and I feel sorry for them. I think setting up deprogramming stations on as many street corners in America as possible would be an appropriate evolution of 60s style demonstrations also...

fas-cism (fash-is-em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with a belligerent nationalism. [from-It fascio, bundle, group.} fas-cist n. & adj. -The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language You can call people names all you want but the word fascism actually has a definition and when I have used it is appropriate. As with most Bush supporters you argue with yourselves along the lines of your brainwashing and launch crude personal attacks on all who would dissent while saying you are "spreading freedom".
Indymedia may have some faults but I see no hint of fascism as defined above. The deleted posts were many, graphic intensive and just a lot of Propaganda Machine photo-ops. I am happy for any alternative to the far right wing propaganda machine and you should consider the possibility that, in the most imprisoned country on earth with only 6 far right, aggressive and monopolistic corporations now tightly controlling all "mainstream" programming. And "war" reporting is very strictly controlled by the pentagon for purposes of control of the electorate first and reasonable military secrecy second. The fact that the Propaganda Machine victims feel a need to go out and harrass little indymedia operations is right out of Stalin or Hitler's play book. Totalitarian crap. I notice you guy's posts are not deleted as I write this.
I also have not advanced support for the civil disobedience, but criticized the way in which it was handled in Oakland.

"There is no need to argue with the masses, slogans are much more effective. Slogans are like strong drinks to people. The crowd doesn't react like men but like women, who rely on their feelings, rather on their intelligence, if any. Propaganda is a great, difficult and noble art, therefore it calls for a genius. The most successful propagandist in history were Christ, Mohammed and Buddha." -Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda minister and most valued team member.

"And "war" reporting is very strictly controlled by the pentagon for purposes of control of the electorate first and reasonable military secrecy second. " says Noel.

Where is ANY evidence of the above assertion? How does the Pentagon control the BBC? Or Al-Jazeera?

Slogans? You don't like slogans, noel? How about "Bikes, Not Bombs"? I guess Saddam quaked when he saw that sign.

Look at the results of the current Chron poll. Average San Franciscan (over 50%) sayiing let the locals go wild, blow of steam?

hmm........ maybe.

but then, maybe Freepers are having fun

"And "war" reporting is very strictly controlled by the pentagon for purposes of control of the electorate first and reasonable military secrecy second. " says Noel. Where is ANY evidence of the above assertion?" My own experience and the obvious fact that all media in Iraq is controlled by the U.S. Military including Iraqi state TV now I think. All you see on Fox and the rest is spoon fed and censored to the max.
How does the Pentagon control the BBC?
The BBC is the State controlled media of Great Britain, the ally.
Or Al-Jazeera? "
They bomb them killing their reporters. In Iraq, Afghanistan and wherever they can. I doubt the people who hacked their website will be rounded up on terrorist charges either. They also killed un-embedded journalists in a Hotel where they were known to be with blasts from a tank.
"Slogans? You don't like slogans, noel? How about "Bikes, Not Bombs"? I think Bikes not bombs are inviting you to look closer and think, the mass media is geared to reducing your "thought" to animal level slogans. I don't own a bike and you should note that a very large spectrum of people are opposed to our militant Empire building.
" I guess Saddam quaked when he saw that sign."
I don't think "Bikes not Bombs" was intended to intimidate Saddam Hussein. I don't think they expected to intimidate people like you either. What I do suppose they are trying to do is point out their belief that the oil barons in the White house are simply robbing Iraq's second largest oil reserve on earth and will leave it as they have Afghanistan where the main post war construction has been the oil pipeline the Taliban refused to let them build just before the unopposed attacks on the Trade center and Heart of our military. I share this belief though I use gasoline in my vehicle.
"noel coward"
I have no argument; I bombed the populated areas of North Vietnam. (actually was with forward air traffic control) They told us it was secret from the folks back home as they "wouldn't understand"...