Does anyone know this photographer?

I've had a similar experience with another person decked out in an 'ordinary' outfit that also looked a bit like a costume, as does the guy above. I asked *that* person if he worked for the gov't after he snapped *my* photo w/out asking permission at one of the breakaways at Powell on the first day of protests after the invasion started. This other guy dresses like a construction worker, complete with hard hat, plaid shirt etc.. He told me he was with some union that didn't sound real either. He seemed to be targeting various ppl, in my case because I was making a cell phone call from the sidelines to ECR. When I asked him if he wanted to talk to the independent media about his views on the 'war' in Iraq, he laughed & told me he was 'too busy'- apparently working for the Feds taking photos ;) It was obvious from his tone that he was pro-war/Bush. Remember: the feds aren't very bright. If someone looks obviously fake/undercover, they probably are. Besides, when's the last time you've seen a union worker from a non-existent union in a hard hat & lumberjack shirt randomly 'show up' at a little-known protest in full gear, but convienently with an expensive digital camera that they actually seem to be able to use? I rest my case ;)

This is a good place to mention the idea of reviving the old 80s/90s activists' secession movement ideas.. California/the Bay Area + select outlying regions/San Francisco.. each/all would make viable self-governing entities rich in diversity- of people, industry etc.. With a little cleverness, also self-sustaining in terms of agriculture, trade, etc.. In other words: political secession from the United States is something intelligent we can work towards, & is the last thing the Feds want us to talk openly about. This is why you don't hear in the media about the ongoing Hawaiian secessionist movement, the anti-US voices in Puerto Rico, etc.. Let's learn from the USSR & start to fall apart at the edges folks! ;) Remember: NO MORE INJUSTICE! NO MORE GREED! CALIFORNIA MUST SECEDE! Now go give em hell! :)

Probably the best thing is if he photographs you or near you, tell him you don't appreciate being photographed without permission and ask what paper he works for. It could just be some wingnut, but I think if he got asked every time he went out, he might not come out anymore. If he legitimately works for even independent press, he wouldn't have a problem tellingn you what press it was.

what law is he breaking? i thought it was legal to photograph people in public places. but i'm not a lawyer.

If this guy is working as an "agent", and taking pics to add to some nefarious database........SO WHAT. ifr you've been attending demonstrations for any period of time, you should know by now it's a given that there are going to be govt scumbags trying to gather data. If you're that worried about it, wear a mask and sunglasses to prevent getting added to their photo album.
The breakaway marches ALWAYS are under surveilance....and they usually don't worry about using "undercover" photographers......(we've all seen that bald cop with his video cam, as well as uniformed photographers)..... look at the roof tops at gatherings....you got more cameras aimed at you when you go to a demonstration than you would if you were a fashion runway model.
There's a dangerous trend on this site that's leaning towards witch hunting with trying to "out" the undercovers. my friends and i, while still remaining active within our AG, have stopped attending the marches after a group pulled my freind's masks off and starting screaming "cop" at them until they left. Chalk up 6 people that will no longer be adding to your numbers because of concern for our safety (its pretty sad we had to worry about our safety from the group we were there to support, and not from the cops).....
if the guy you photographed....(did you ask his permission to take his pic first, or should you be thrown into your arena of potential "agents")....really does work for the govt, it doesnt matter.....you show up at a demonstration with your face exposed, assume your pic is getting taken, and will be kept by someone...if this guy isnt one of "them"....then all you have done now is publicly try and convict him, and perhaps run off another supporter....

This guy DOES NOT work for the "government". Just because he's older and does not fit the profile of protester, does not make him a spy. There is enough news feed and photos protesters take themselves for the gov to use, if that is what they are doing.

This guy does not even look like someone the government would use to infiltrate the peace movement. There is no reverse psychology here.

My advice is to welcome all to a protest. Even if the person has "I love King Bush" tattooed on his forehead.
There is no room for petty paranoia in times as volatile as these. If he is a "spy", try winning him over to your side rather than alienating and threatening him with accusations.

And the proof of this is?

If you only knew...........!

> yo
> by peeps Sunday April 06, 2003 at 01:06 PM
>
> what law is he breaking? i thought it was legal to
> photograph people in public places. but i'm not a
> lawyer.

The problem is that the same hippies who denounce copyright law and declare that "all information should be free", will do a total 180 and start threatening lawsuits in civil court if they decide later that they don't like your politics, story angle, or purpose. (And of course they're always willing to "settle" out of court for a hefty cash prize directly proportional to the depth of your pockets.)

The basis for these lawsuits? Their contention that they their "image" is personal intellectual property covered by implicit copyright - nevermind that the camera and film are yours.

It's bullshit, but when every commercial media outlet in the state has been successfully terrorized into shoving media release forms into your face just for merely straying across the background of their camera's field of view, apparently the courts have chosen to back that bullshit. (Which is no surprise, considering how much other nonsense they also enforce.)

All I can say is - welcome to "liberal" California. Pay no mind to the suspicious lack of liberty.

-Van

p.s. Think Im exagerating? I had an old hippy women literally walk through the background of my camera's field of vision while I was filming a Santa Cruz City Council meeting last year, and then intercept me on the sidewalk, ask if I'd filmed her, and start in about how she "charges for the use of her image, you know". And she wasn't even a speaker!

When I informed her that my camera had been off the moment she walked past (I was waiting for a certain speaker), she seemed genuinely disappointed.
Fuckin' vultures!

And the proof that he is? Because he's older and his clothes aren't hip enough for you, or subversive enough for you?

Even if he is, so what. I guess what I'm trying to say is that this paranoid kneejerk reaction of some Bay area protesters takes away from the real issue. Let's pretend he does work for the government...oh my, he's taking photos!! Oh my, he could be taking names as well!! If there is a list, you are probably already on it.

Stop trying to play the victim. You have work to do and trying to scout out every "spy" at protests in the Bay Area just detracts from what you should be doing. And that is fighting against this fucking awful administration.

Picking on old men with cameras at protests is pathetic. It saddens me that some protesters feel that they are above others and therefore can choose who is "active" enough to stand on public property with them.

Now is not the time to be divided. In New York, I have seen at protests all walks of life. Including well dressed older gentlemen and straight laced looking younger men as well. I suppose they could be cops but from where I was marching, they looked like friends.

I have both studied the history of COINTELPRO, and suffered personally as one of its victims. So I know what I'm talking about. You don't. Yeah, this stuff really happens. Trust no one who comes unvouched for, and not all of them, either, not by a long chalk. If you do, it could very easily cost you your freedom, or even your life.

If you get involved in illegal activity or even permitted marches, and don't wear a mask, chances are the police already have your photograph, and anyone who has been involved in these actions probably knows this as well, since the cops don't hide their spying. It is pointless to try and guess which photographers are "under cover cops" or not because you simply cannot know. If you don't want the government tracking you, DISGUISE YOURSELF or simply don't get involved in subversive activites, simple as that. I am saying this as someone who has participated in multiple direct actions.

yea yea yea, im sure most of the people reading and submitting in regards to this post have been involved with direct action at least a time or two in the past, and most of us are aware that it is not just paranoia that we know we're being photographed.......however, the idea in the post where you say not to trust anyone that isnt "vouched for"....etc etc...intruigues me......ive met several very cool people at direct action marches, and while yes, i take great care in sharing personal details with anyone, there have been a few very good freindships struck at these events......
now, after that post though...im wondering, do i need to ask these people for a list of references from previous demonstrations, etc....to make sure theyre not undercovers? who would i talk to to get these references double checked? how do i make sure that any info on myself stored by this "vouching-for cartel" would be accurate? (i gotta stop tirading now for fear of laughing myself outta my seat.....)
get a grip....yes, there is surveilance....we all damn well know it going into the game....be careful who you trust....no kidding........yes there is cointel b.s. floating around, but if theyre nearly as nefarious as you give them credit for, youre already screwed.....most likely you'd find the "agents" already in leadership positions, having the best "referneces", etc,,,,or EVEN cointel could start working on creating a divisive, paranoid attitude that permeated the movement so far that people began suspecting everyone around them, publicly accusing those they dont know as AGENTS.....posting their pictures on the internet to keep them from attending future demonstrations for fear of being lynched for being an UNDERCOVER....oh wait....i'm staying away from people like you from now on after 2 of my freinds had their masks pulled off (trying to prevent from being photographed) and being accused of being cops by your damn lynch mob mentality...and with the b.s. i been reading on posts lately, until i find out who has the ego big enough to provide the OK on who can attend these direct actions without having shitheads turn on each other like stray dogs......

The real danger is the government's use of plausibly deniable irregulars. On a daily basis, Freeper vigilantes threaten kill, rape and maim us. Most of it is, of course, a bunch of impotent cowards, spouting hot air.

But it only takes one.