Open letter to Direct Action to Stop the War...from a disillusioned community

You don't see the hypocrisy of you invocation of Martin Luther King, as if he would "shut this city down" as you attempt to do. I'm all for peaceful marches, in accord with my generally peaceful attitude. I"m not for screaming and harassing innocent workers in the streets, and neither was Martin Luther King. You are thugs. Martin Luther King was no thug. You are No Martin Luther King.

i agree with this letter. i was with the hordes on thursday, happy to *PEACEFULLY* shut down the city. as the tension has escalated, i have bowed out of the protests. i respect the black bloc and applaud their dedication, but i cannot agree with the violence and vandalism. we should be making it hard for our congresspeople and senators to exist right now, and making it impossible for corporate slaves to ignore the war they chose through their own complicity. i feel that we can do that without setting fires in trash cans, throwing rocks at cops, torching cars, etc. let's try and remain calm. i know it can be hard. in many ways the protests feel like a battle cry at home, and getting caught up in that is easy and exhilirating. but, if we are for peace, let's show peace.

i support all peaceful direct action - sitting down in the street, blocking the federal building, praying or chanting in front of news media buildings, etc.

ultimately this isn't about changing minds of the conservative, especially when the news media will always report the 5 people who threw rocks at cops instead of the hundreds who sat praying or doing yoga in front of buildings. this is about directly affecting the many people who live and work in the city with the power of our dissention. be poignant, memorable, and sincere. cut to the heart of passersby with your signs, performances, tears, and prayer.

i hate to say it, but the violent actions of my family in the streets are borne from the same hatred and narcissism that is the seed of the war we oppose. don't feed it.

i'd like to see more coverage of truly peaceful anti war actions on indymedia. pray-ins, vigils, sit-ins, die-ins, whatever-ins.

thanks for listening.

i agree with this letter. i was with the hordes on thursday, happy to *PEACEFULLY* shut down the city. as the tension has escalated, i have bowed out of the protests. i respect the black bloc and applaud their dedication, but i cannot agree with the violence and vandalism. we should be making it hard for our congresspeople and senators to exist right now, and making it impossible for corporate slaves to ignore the war they chose through their own complicity. i feel that we can do that without setting fires in trash cans, throwing rocks at cops, torching cars, etc. let's try and remain calm. i know it can be hard. in many ways the protests feel like a battle cry at home, and getting caught up in that is easy and exhilirating. but, if we are for peace, let's show peace.

i support all peaceful direct action - sitting down in the street, blocking the federal building, praying or chanting in front of news media buildings, etc.

ultimately this isn't about changing minds of the conservative, especially when the news media will always report the 5 people who threw rocks at cops instead of the hundreds who sat praying or doing yoga in front of buildings. this is about directly affecting the many people who live and work in the city with the power of our dissention. be poignant, memorable, and sincere. cut to the heart of passersby with your signs, performances, tears, and prayer.

i hate to say it, but the violent actions of my family in the streets are borne from the same hatred and narcissism that is the seed of the war we oppose. don't feed it.

i'd like to see more coverage of truly peaceful anti war actions on indymedia. pray-ins, vigils, sit-ins, die-ins, whatever-ins.

thanks for listening.

KTVU-2 is now reporting that total costs (for CHP, sales tax, tourism loss in addition to SFPD costs) is estimated at $15-20M.

Your thoughts and opinion are not restrained by others. But it's your job to articulate those thoughts, and to make those opinions persuasive to others. Organizing your mind doesn't require fucking other people over.

Me, I don't care -- the Left is radicalizing the middle here, and I'm hopeful for San Francisco's future. But there might be some bright young person reading this, trying to get out from under a university education, who needs some encouragement to not join the mindless mob. We need you -- we need you to use your heart and your brain together. Question the Left's Authority, and please think for yourself.

Is this a peace movement or is this an anti-war movement?
There is a difference.

This war that we are trying to stop is a direct result of a government held hostage by big business and capitalism run amok. To be against this war is to be inherently anti-capitalist and anti-government.

Instead of criticizing the efforts of those of us working to stop the war we need to come up with new and even more effective tactics. Not an easy task. If we're going to criticize people, let's criticize those who are supporting the fascist regime - be they Willie Brown, the mostly invisible Board of Supervisors, MUNI drivers who drive the cops, the mainstream media and flag waving yahoos.

I think our next step of action should be to join the efforts of those trying to get a ballot measure in San Francisco that calls for our city's independence from the United States (yes, this effort is already underway).

its the cops who are becoming more and more violent.

im especialy worried about those federal (not sfpd) people. and the FBI is in town too.

but dont worry, ill be out in the streets monday, and as many days as i can, untill the war is over. we need to make this war so costly, that they think twice before starting the next one.

i think even screaming at the cops is counterproductive, as much as they might deserve. i've got to say i've seen tons of news coverage in the last 100 hours and on all TV stations they inevitably pick out the crowds who are literally screaming at the police. people are pissed off. Unfortunately, this doesnt make for half as powerful an image as would that of a group of people in silence or chanting or whatever. I don't like the pigs either, but I don't think Gandhi would have screamed "PIG PIG PIG"--and he won.

To: Anonymous...
Your concerns over violence in the street are justified, although only so by yourself. Direct Action to Stop the War is not a "organization" in the sense that it holds sway over demonstrators actions. Direct Action to Stop the War is a vehcle (website to be exact) used to co-ordinate the varied responses to the disgusting invasion of Iraq (and the oncoming occupation of the Middle East by US interests).
You are correct to note the violation of civil rights occuring in the streets-but your underlying pacifist convictions lead us nowhere in how to confront the police state assembled in our fair city this week.
The rage i've seen on the streets since wednesday has manifested itself in violence for a number of reasons. Foremost ,i think, because Willie Brown has called in the calvary to squash the legitimate aspirations of the majority of bay area residents. Are mass illegal arrests, restriction of freedom of assembly, protection of war profiteers like Bechtel and Carlysle Group(not to mention the media/corporate complex) the way a city "opposed" to war should be conducting itself? The violation of our rights(mass arrests with no dispersal orders,targeted beatings)is handy for squashing dissent for the time being,Brown will let the courts settle it later, but what does this mean for our resistance?
The country is watching SF because we have used a variety of direct action tactics (overwhelmingly non-violent but when necessary,yes violence) to tell the war makers "No business as Usual". Our sisters and brothers across the country (and yes the world) are watching and drawing inspiration from our efforts. The time is not to divide those in the streets but to work to broaden the scope,bring more folks in...the larger our numbers grow the less the police can brutalize us (and subsequently the less we will need to turn to violence to protect ourselves and stay on course).
Things have gotten really heavy lately with the police but we have grown more determined to make our city one free of war profiteers, politicians and the pigs who serve them both.
Stay on course and use whatever tactics you see fit to make San Francisco a city you are proud to live in!

Everyone has a different perspective and way of expressing themselves over this war. I myself won't contribute to violence but that's my own opinion. Other's feel differently, but that's their right. People ARE angry! And hurt, scared, etc. It is a complex situation.

Most of all, we need to NOT let this break us apart. Although we may use diffirent tactics, we all want the war stopped! Don't forget this. Let's try to have more patience with each other, it's hard enough fighting the war-mongers than to also be fighting amongst ourselves...

Don't buy into the corporate media's slander and lies.

There are bigger crimes to fight.

This is brief. I am undecided on the validity of the black block tactics. I am, however, tired of people always reverting to the myths of Gandhi and MLK. Firstly, we are living in a very different era than Gandhi and MLK did. I would say that capitalism manifests itself in a very different way now than it did in the middle 20th century. Moreover, the way culture is produced is very different. Thus, to say that Gandhi did something and that makes it right is wrong, because it does not take into account that we do not live in the world that Gandhi lived in. Secondly, I think that we all need to carefully consider the myths that have been created around historical figures. These myths often conceal important information. This probably isn't the space to go into this point further, but if anyone is interested in looking at a more complex discussion of power in the context of the development of the nationalist movement in colonial India, I suggest reading Dominance Without Hegemony by Ranajit Guha and "Gandhi as Mahatma" by Shahid Amin, which was published in one of the issues of Subaltern Studies, but I forget which one.

Go to the meeting and voice your concerns there!

Spokescouncil Meeting Sunday March 23rd
7pm. St Boniface Church, 133 Golden Gate Ave, SF

It has been a crazy few days and maybe your confusion could rest in not being prepared and so I am going to the meeting tonight to see what is going on in person. I realize now more than ever that we need to become more active and united in order to see the changes we all want to see happen in the world!

Please go to the meeting, everyone!

Help direct the movement with YOUR heart! This is our world!

We need to communicate to each other!

Thanks to all who have been out on the streets! We need each other!

Lots of love to my fellow revolutionaries,

your friend,

Jeremiah

Go to the meeting and voice your concerns there!

Spokescouncil Meeting Sunday March 23rd
7pm. St Boniface Church, 133 Golden Gate Ave, SF

It has been a crazy few days and maybe your confusion (like mine) could rest in not being prepared and so I am going to the meeting tonight to see what is going on in person. I realize now more than ever that we need to become more active and united in order to see the changes we all want to see happen in the world!

Please go to the meeting, everyone!

Help direct the movement with YOUR heart! This is our world!

We need to communicate to each other!

Thanks to all who have been out on the streets! We need each other!

Lots of love to my fellow revolutionaries,

your friend,

Jeremiah

have no idea how to reach out to the mainstream. With your self-aggrandizing and rhetorical posturing, yells of "revolution" and "fuck", are in no way going to "radicalize" regular people who are against the war but do not see the problem as being capitalism. The movement needs to meet people where they are at. That is, rebuild people's confidence to fight back and explain patiently why it's important to do so and how all of that is tied to the profit system. That means debate and accountability and not doing the "most radical" thing all the time. Course, you anarchists don't favor that cause you're a bunch of sectarian assholes who think anyone who isn't on the streets with you is a "reformist." I have news for you. A lot of those people in the streets with you are hard core liberals who work for NGOs and are at best Keynesians. They love capitalism, in other words.

Showing a child damaged by some nameless asshole persuades you to fuck over the working class in what way, precisely?

"fuck over the working class"?

The working class is fighting and paying for this war...and will be for generations.

Your callousness towards real victims of war belies the selfishness that is Amerika the Apathetic.

Anyone who has been on the street has seen the overwhelming support for peace protestors.

I'm opposed to tactics that consign the average working person to a position as an object of the struggle instead of making them see that they can be a subject of history (these are history making times, after all). It is for this reason that I have qualms about blocking traffic as a central tactic. And I am definitely against shrilly screaming at people, assuming they are stupid sheep instead of seeing them as potential insurgents.

Our rulers need to know that business-as-usual comes to a halt when they embark on their killing crusades. Mass strikes, blockades, and creative direct action are our weapons in this fight.

I am suspicious of people that post anonymous slanders of the militant movement against this imperial slaughter. The above poster writes:

"I am witholding my name not out of cowardice, but because I represent many who have expressed these sentiments, many who are confused..."

That's an utterly bogus reason to withhold your name. Totally bogus. You have put yourself at no risk making these criticism's, get it?

I concur with much of what you say, but I think maybe you need to
look more at the broader context.

There is no peace when you are throwing your body into the gears
of the Machine. Gandhi didn't fast until there was vast carnage and genocide in the streets. We've not reached that point, yet.

You can wait it out on the sidelines if you aren't comfortable with
the level of confrontation, but when it comes to people who are
putting their own bodies and freedom at risk, I think they are
entitled to decide on the appropriate level of resistance.

I don't "support our troops." I hope no "peace loving" person would
claim to do that. I do, however, support the freedom fighters everywhere. I even support those who take up arms in self defense
as a last resort. I hope we don't see that soon on US streets.

In the meantime, rolling a car into the barricade is not equivalent to
bombing civilians from 50000 ft. Let's keep things in perspective please.

Dear Anonymous:

I agree with much of the sentiment in your letter. I too do not want to terrorize people at night or set fires or break windows. I'm even polite to the police (most of the time).

But, DirectActionToStopTheWar is an umbrella group and cannot silence the more "violent" in the group without risking dividing our movement. And while I myself will not participate in destruction of physical property, I am not ready to condemn it wholesale because it sometimes takes extreme meausures to fight extreme problems.

If you don't want to be associated with the more "violent" behaviors, perhaps you can form one or more affinity groups of non-violent protestors within Direct Action. I think many people--perhaps more than half in the movement--agree with you and don't want to be associated with destruction of physical property. If this is the case, maybe you can coordinate within Direct Action to keep strictly peaceful protests in different locations from the ones that are open to doing "whatever it takes" to get their message across.

I hope that you and others that share your views stay in the movement. It takes all kinds of approaches to fight a regime such as ours, so I sincerely hope that voices for non-violent forms of protest remain strong and persistent thoughout the resistance movement.

Peace for All
-Mitch

Please let us know the source of the photo showing
"another girl liberated from her legs".

I'm not familiar with Focus and would appreciate the URL.

Thanks,
Mitch

My take.

Corporate media, like the Chron and local news, is working like crazy to demonize the protestors, showing their extreme bias and corporate backing.

Similarly, the Chronicle is working to crush Instant Runoff Voting, which was voted in by the people.

Media is now spending inordinate amounts of time on the patriot protests of a dozen or so, or even as little as TWO PEOPLE, having them go on and on and on about their point of view. But during a march of over 50,000, they have far LESS or NO coverage of viewpoints and issues.

I see the tactics that are naturally occurring in SF as a taste of what our future holds. Our laws are subverted or suddenly changed and our democracy is dissapearing. These are happening with lightening speed. The response is directly related to these changes and their speed.

One important difference between Ghandi and now, is that there was no internet. Now we see the news immediately, communicate immediately, etc., and the need to act quickly is huge in a response to the speed with which the government is moving to destroy democracy. If you listened to KPFA this morning you know that already US troops have entered Turkey illegally and are taking over port towns with guns brandished. The world knows what the people of Turkey feel. But now the US is planning on allowing Turkey to invade Northern Iraq in turn for the use of it's airspace.

Every day that passes is more lost, huge invaluable things - lives, laws, sanity.

The media, we can now assume, will simply sit on a price calculator for the protests - their main coverage will be on how much the protests are costing. Similarly, they aren't covering what the war is costing.

How to cope with this? What is the next strategy? How will we adapt to the corporate monster?

I'll be at the spokes tonight if only to experience that directly democratic process, and to see where things go, hopefully to participate.

We've accomplished something incredible - we've stopped business as usual, and in the process we allowed the birth of something unstoppable, something indescribable . . . I have no words for it.

Yesterday, headed home from the march - another massive display with little or no coverage of any issues at all, and yet also vitally important for all of us and the rest of the world - and I came upon the intersection at UN Plaza being taken. The music was blasting and everyone was dancing in the middle of the road. I saw an older man - not a protestor, probably a resident of the UN plaza - turn to the woman he was with and offer his hand to lead her into the street to dance.

And for those few minutes, before the sirens came again, we were all smiling and yelling and dancing and being a city of regular people, not buying things, not rushing to work, not waiting for buses endlessly, not silently sitting on BART, not marching in our mass which has no effect, not following the lights of the street signals, but dancing together, spontaneously.

This is what we've started.

And for my part, I thank the Direct Action folks for birthing something amazing, something I don't think any of us ever imagined would come into existance.

We will adapt, we will learn, and we will grow.

And if this means completely changing our tactics, we will show we have the power and the organizational tools to do that.

The Black Bloc seems to have already begun to adapt - they weren't out on Saturday in their typical block formation (although I may have missed them) while stores like Starbucks were completely boarded up - a victory with no effort on our part.

Thanks for posting your thoughts. I hope everyone does, and that everyone keeps on speaking up. We are far more powerful than anyone realized. Now we need to adapt, either in continuing the same process, or changing it.

I strongly support the continued cd in downtown until war is over. I also strongly support a class action lawsuit against the cops who have brutalized people.

Cracking heads by the cops a display of thier inability to adapt. Rather than actually figure out a legal way to handle the situation, they chose to try to intimidate in a variety of ways. They were seen hiding in alleys in the Mission last night, lights off, to catch bicyclists. They are frantic to protect corporate interests and businessmen.

Similarly, corporate rule-breaking has virtually no consequences. No news coverage of the costs to taxpayers.

I look forward to the next street action, whatever it may be.

It's not easy, but don't get disillusioned so easily. We have a long struggle. While I don't always agree with some of the tactics I see in the street, I feel this is not the time to get sucked into the divisive debate over tactics. I think this is the time for various kinds expressions. There is a lot of anger and rage out there that is very real; there is also some that is testosterone fueled. We shouldn’t run around denouncing other tactics, we need to keep on message. Our values will come out in our message. Also, I think that "peaceful" and "non-violent" are very culturally relative terms.

Check out this link to the Z magazine web site. They have a list of articles on Violence and Non-violence, Trashing and not trashing, mostly from the time of the Seattle WTO actions, but others that are newer. There is lots of other info out there on this debate too. Seek it out and read it.

quetzy

http://www.zmag.org/stratvision.htm#Violence%20and%20Non-violence,%20Trashing%20and%20not-Trashing

It's not easy, but don't get disillusioned so easily. We have a long struggle. While I don't always agree with some of the tactics I see in the street, I feel this is not the time to get sucked into the divisive debate over tactics. I think this is the time for various kinds expressions. There is a lot of anger and rage out there that is very real; there is also some that is testosterone fueled. We shouldn’t run around denouncing other tactics, we need to keep on message. Our values will come out in our message. Also, I think that "peaceful" and "non-violent" are very culturally relative terms.

Check out this link to the Z magazine web site. They have a list of articles on Violence and Non-violence, Trashing and not trashing, mostly from the time of the Seattle WTO actions, but others that are newer. There is lots of other info out there on this debate too. Seek it out and read it.

quetzy

http://www.zmag.org/stratvision.htm#Violence%20and%20Non-violence,%20Trashing%20and%20not-Trashing

To the original poster -

To say "...marches after dark snake through the city and terrorize people" is both wrong and silly. What the hell is terrorizing about people walking down the street at night??? Wake up...

that you have a moment to spare to complain about broken windows and tired cops while bombs you paid for are dropping on children is sickening.

that you cry "non-violence!" while marching in demonstrations organized by fucking murderous monsters from ANSWER/IAC/WWP (see: tiannamen sq., kim il sung, and, oh yeah, joseph stalin) is the height of hypocrisy.

that you invoke the name of gandhi just shows the depth of your fucking delusion. he didn't free india, you propaganda-fed zombies! the most violent event in human history, called world war two, "freed" india to pursue capitalism on their own. according to nobel-prize winning economist sen, the choice to maintain capitalism in india cost at least 100 million lives!

that you bemoan a pause in business as usual while your government tests its latest array of death machines on innocent people (as well as a tiny minority of guilty people) is disgusting.

that you would invoke the name of MLK shows that you cannot see with your own eyes what has happened to the black community in the 35 years since his death. implicit in king's demands was the idea that if the establishment didnt deal with him, they would have to deal with violence. king himself admitted this repeatedly! and i don't care who you fuck, but if you fuck someone besides your wife and you lie about it, you are a fucking liar. did malcom x need to tell those kind of lies? hell no, he exposed those kinds of lies, and yet today you invoke the name of the liar in the name of peace. by the time MLK finally realized his mistake -- that he had been used as a tool in the cold war -- and started to do the respectable and honorable thing -- namely, oppose american imperialism -- he was dead within months.

as the bombs fall on baghdad and all the other towns and cities in iraq, anyone who wants to complain about the inconvenience of people in a country that consumes 40% of the world's resources while they simultaneously rain down death ought to be told to shut the fuck up. you fucking racists don't give a DAMN about iraqis. you care more about your fucking latte's and you'd probably be fucking pissed to find the whole city TRULY shut down as a response to this fucking genocidal mass murder.

we should applaud ANYONE who comes out against the war, but there is this peacenik sector that is so utterly distrubed by the truths unveiled by block bloc actions.

i can only ask you: close you eyes for a moment. think of those pictures of 'shock and awe' -- can you for even one moment imagine what that is like? can you put yourselves in their shoes? what if you are in the gaza strip or basra or anywhere the american taxpayer/voter sends its death machines. can you imagine the screams of the people?

and should these people have a way to find out, what do you think they would rather hear? that people marched in peaceful circles? or that people stood up and resisted? what IS solidarity? what does it mean, REALLY?

again, if you came out against the war in any fashion i applaud and salute you! if you sat down peacefully in the street and got arrested i think you rock, seriously. if you created spectacle with puppets and theatre, i commend you. even if you marched in an obedient circle, i thank you.

but if you want to criticize the tactics that you find distasteful while mass murder is being committed on brown people once again, all i can say is fuck you. your racism and your delusions will continue to be exposed each and every day.

that you have a moment to spare to complain about broken windows and tired cops while bombs you paid for are dropping on children is sickening.

that you cry "non-violence!" while marching in demonstrations organized by fucking murderous monsters from ANSWER/IAC/WWP (see: tiannamen sq., kim il sung, and, oh yeah, joseph stalin) is the height of hypocrisy.

that you invoke the name of gandhi just shows the depth of your fucking delusion. he didn't free india, you propaganda-fed zombies! the most violent event in human history, called world war two, "freed" india to pursue capitalism on their own. according to nobel-prize winning economist sen, the choice to maintain capitalism in india cost at least 100 million lives!

that you bemoan a pause in business as usual while your government tests its latest array of death machines on innocent people (as well as a tiny minority of guilty people) is disgusting.

that you would invoke the name of MLK shows that you cannot see with your own eyes what has happened to the black community in the 35 years since his death. implicit in king's demands was the idea that if the establishment didnt deal with him, they would have to deal with violence. king himself admitted this repeatedly! and i don't care who you fuck, but if you fuck someone besides your wife and you lie about it, you are a fucking liar. did malcom x need to tell those kind of lies? hell no, he exposed those kinds of lies, and yet today you invoke the name of the liar in the name of peace. by the time MLK finally realized his mistake -- that he had been used as a tool in the cold war -- and started to do the respectable and honorable thing -- namely, oppose american imperialism -- he was dead within months.

as the bombs fall on baghdad and all the other towns and cities in iraq, anyone who wants to complain about the inconvenience of people in a country that consumes 40% of the world's resources while they simultaneously rain down death ought to be told to shut the fuck up. you fucking racists don't give a DAMN about iraqis. you care more about your fucking latte's and you'd probably be fucking pissed to find the whole city TRULY shut down as a response to this fucking genocidal mass murder.

we should applaud ANYONE who comes out against the war, but there is this peacenik sector that is so utterly distrubed by the truths unveiled by block bloc actions.

i can only ask you: close you eyes for a moment. think of those pictures of 'shock and awe' -- can you for even one moment imagine what that is like? can you put yourselves in their shoes? what if you are in the gaza strip or basra or anywhere the american taxpayer/voter sends its death machines. can you imagine the screams of the people?

and should these people have a way to find out, what do you think they would rather hear? that people marched in peaceful circles? or that people stood up and resisted? what IS solidarity? what does it mean, REALLY?

again, if you came out against the war in any fashion i applaud and salute you! if you sat down peacefully in the street and got arrested i think you rock, seriously. if you created spectacle with puppets and theatre, i commend you. even if you marched in an obedient circle, i thank you.

but if you want to criticize the tactics that you find distasteful while mass murder is being committed on brown people once again, all i can say is fuck you. your racism and your delusions will continue to be exposed each and every day.

that you have a moment to spare to complain about broken windows and tired cops while bombs you paid for are dropping on children is sickening.

that you cry "non-violence!" while marching in demonstrations organized by fucking murderous monsters from ANSWER/IAC/WWP (see: tiannamen sq., kim il sung, and, oh yeah, joseph stalin) is the height of hypocrisy.

that you invoke the name of gandhi just shows the depth of your fucking delusion. he didn't free india, you propaganda-fed zombies! the most violent event in human history, called world war two, "freed" india to pursue capitalism on their own. according to nobel-prize winning economist sen, the choice to maintain capitalism in india cost at least 100 million lives!

that you bemoan a pause in business as usual while your government tests its latest array of death machines on innocent people (as well as a tiny minority of guilty people) is disgusting.

that you would invoke the name of MLK shows that you cannot see with your own eyes what has happened to the black community in the 35 years since his death. implicit in king's demands was the idea that if the establishment didnt deal with him, they would have to deal with violence. king himself admitted this repeatedly! and i don't care who you fuck, but if you fuck someone besides your wife and you lie about it, you are a fucking liar. did malcom x need to tell those kind of lies? hell no, he exposed those kinds of lies, and yet today you invoke the name of the liar in the name of peace. by the time MLK finally realized his mistake -- that he had been used as a tool in the cold war -- and started to do the respectable and honorable thing -- namely, oppose american imperialism -- he was dead within months.

as the bombs fall on baghdad and all the other towns and cities in iraq, anyone who wants to complain about the inconvenience of people in a country that consumes 40% of the world's resources while they simultaneously rain down death ought to be told to shut the fuck up. you fucking racists don't give a DAMN about iraqis. you care more about your fucking latte's and you'd probably be fucking pissed to find the whole city TRULY shut down as a response to this fucking genocidal mass murder.

we should applaud ANYONE who comes out against the war, but there is this peacenik sector that is so utterly distrubed by the truths unveiled by block bloc actions.

i can only ask you: close you eyes for a moment. think of those pictures of 'shock and awe' -- can you for even one moment imagine what that is like? can you put yourselves in their shoes? what if you are in the gaza strip or basra or anywhere the american taxpayer/voter sends its death machines. can you imagine the screams of the people?

and should these people have a way to find out, what do you think they would rather hear? that people marched in peaceful circles? or that people stood up and resisted? what IS solidarity? what does it mean, REALLY?

again, if you came out against the war in any fashion i applaud and salute you! if you sat down peacefully in the street and got arrested i think you rock, seriously. if you created spectacle with puppets and theatre, i commend you. even if you marched in an obedient circle, i thank you.

but if you want to criticize the tactics that you find distasteful while mass murder is being committed on brown people once again, all i can say is fuck you. your racism and your delusions will continue to be exposed each and every day.

that you have a moment to spare to complain about broken windows and tired cops while bombs you paid for are dropping on children is sickening.

that you cry "non-violence!" while marching in demonstrations organized by fucking murderous monsters from ANSWER/IAC/WWP (see: tiannamen sq., kim il sung, and, oh yeah, joseph stalin) is the height of hypocrisy.

that you invoke the name of gandhi just shows the depth of your fucking delusion. he didn't free india, you propaganda-fed zombies! the most violent event in human history, called world war two, "freed" india to pursue capitalism on their own. according to nobel-prize winning economist sen, the choice to maintain capitalism in india cost at least 100 million lives!

that you bemoan a pause in business as usual while your government tests its latest array of death machines on innocent people (as well as a tiny minority of guilty people) is disgusting.

that you would invoke the name of MLK shows that you cannot see with your own eyes what has happened to the black community in the 35 years since his death. implicit in king's demands was the idea that if the establishment didnt deal with him, they would have to deal with violence. king himself admitted this repeatedly! and i don't care who you fuck, but if you fuck someone besides your wife and you lie about it, you are a fucking liar. did malcom x need to tell those kind of lies? hell no, he exposed those kinds of lies, and yet today you invoke the name of the liar in the name of peace. by the time MLK finally realized his mistake -- that he had been used as a tool in the cold war -- and started to do the respectable and honorable thing -- namely, oppose american imperialism -- he was dead within months.

as the bombs fall on baghdad and all the other towns and cities in iraq, anyone who wants to complain about the inconvenience of people in a country that consumes 40% of the world's resources while they simultaneously rain down death ought to be told to shut the fuck up. you fucking racists don't give a DAMN about iraqis. you care more about your fucking latte's and you'd probably be fucking pissed to find the whole city TRULY shut down as a response to this fucking genocidal mass murder.

we should applaud ANYONE who comes out against the war, but there is this peacenik sector that is so utterly distrubed by the truths unveiled by block bloc actions.

i can only ask you: close you eyes for a moment. think of those pictures of 'shock and awe' -- can you for even one moment imagine what that is like? can you put yourselves in their shoes? what if you are in the gaza strip or basra or anywhere the american taxpayer/voter sends its death machines. can you imagine the screams of the people?

and should these people have a way to find out, what do you think they would rather hear? that people marched in peaceful circles? or that people stood up and resisted? what IS solidarity? what does it mean, REALLY?

again, if you came out against the war in any fashion i applaud and salute you! if you sat down peacefully in the street and got arrested i think you rock, seriously. if you created spectacle with puppets and theatre, i commend you. even if you marched in an obedient circle, i thank you.

but if you want to criticize the tactics that you find distasteful while mass murder is being committed on brown people once again, all i can say is fuck you. your racism and your delusions will continue to be exposed each and every day.

that you have a moment to spare to complain about broken windows and tired cops while bombs you paid for are dropping on children is sickening.

that you cry "non-violence!" while marching in demonstrations organized by fucking murderous monsters from ANSWER/IAC/WWP (see: tiannamen sq., kim il sung, and, oh yeah, joseph stalin) is the height of hypocrisy.

that you invoke the name of gandhi just shows the depth of your fucking delusion. he didn't free india, you propaganda-fed zombies! the most violent event in human history, called world war two, "freed" india to pursue capitalism on their own. according to nobel-prize winning economist sen, the choice to maintain capitalism in india cost at least 100 million lives!

that you bemoan a pause in business as usual while your government tests its latest array of death machines on innocent people (as well as a tiny minority of guilty people) is disgusting.

that you would invoke the name of MLK shows that you cannot see with your own eyes what has happened to the black community in the 35 years since his death. implicit in king's demands was the idea that if the establishment didnt deal with him, they would have to deal with violence. king himself admitted this repeatedly! and i don't care who you fuck, but if you fuck someone besides your wife and you lie about it, you are a fucking liar. did malcom x need to tell those kind of lies? hell no, he exposed those kinds of lies, and yet today you invoke the name of the liar in the name of peace. by the time MLK finally realized his mistake -- that he had been used as a tool in the cold war -- and started to do the respectable and honorable thing -- namely, oppose american imperialism -- he was dead within months.

as the bombs fall on baghdad and all the other towns and cities in iraq, anyone who wants to complain about the inconvenience of people in a country that consumes 40% of the world's resources while they simultaneously rain down death ought to be told to shut the fuck up. you fucking racists don't give a DAMN about iraqis. you care more about your fucking latte's and you'd probably be fucking pissed to find the whole city TRULY shut down as a response to this fucking genocidal mass murder.

we should applaud ANYONE who comes out against the war, but there is this peacenik sector that is so utterly distrubed by the truths unveiled by block bloc actions.

i can only ask you: close you eyes for a moment. think of those pictures of 'shock and awe' -- can you for even one moment imagine what that is like? can you put yourselves in their shoes? what if you are in the gaza strip or basra or anywhere the american taxpayer/voter sends its death machines. can you imagine the screams of the people?

and should these people have a way to find out, what do you think they would rather hear? that people marched in peaceful circles? or that people stood up and resisted? what IS solidarity? what does it mean, REALLY?

again, if you came out against the war in any fashion i applaud and salute you! if you sat down peacefully in the street and got arrested i think you rock, seriously. if you created spectacle with puppets and theatre, i commend you. even if you marched in an obedient circle, i thank you.

but if you want to criticize the tactics that you find distasteful while mass murder is being committed on brown people once again, all i can say is fuck you. your racism and your delusions will continue to be exposed each and every day.

You cannot stop a fascist regime by being a nail. You must be a hammer.

Someone said here that DASW isn't an organization, but a web site and a meeting of spokes. True, but it has members who are frequently put out as spokespeople to the media, and the larger activist community respects them a lot.

The same few people are quoted in the media as being organizers, the same people are running around coordinating with megaphones at the protests. You all know who these folks are.... even the police know.

These people can speak up and people will listen, and lay down the violence.

If we are not violent, violence will not be brought against us. I know this will take time, I don't live in fantasy land, but violence only continues to feed itself.

Yeah, let's be the ones to STOP all wars, here, there, internal and external, and demand that the lying greedy politicians, heavyhanded poilce, and exploitating corporate looters do the same.

Peace out,

that you have a moment to spare to complain about broken windows and tired cops while bombs you paid for are dropping on children is sickening.

that you cry "non-violence!" while marching in demonstrations organized by fucking murderous monsters from ANSWER/IAC/WWP (see: tiannamen sq., kim il sung, and, oh yeah, joseph stalin) is the height of hypocrisy.

that you invoke the name of gandhi just shows the depth of your fucking delusion. he didn't free india, you propaganda-fed zombies! the most violent event in human history, called world war two, "freed" india to pursue capitalism on their own. according to nobel-prize winning economist sen, the choice to maintain capitalism in india cost at least 100 million lives!

that you bemoan a pause in business as usual while your government tests its latest array of death machines on innocent people (as well as a tiny minority of guilty people) is disgusting.

that you would invoke the name of MLK shows that you cannot see with your own eyes what has happened to the black community in the 35 years since his death. implicit in king's demands was the idea that if the establishment didnt deal with him, they would have to deal with violence. king himself admitted this repeatedly! and i don't care who you fuck, but if you fuck someone besides your wife and you lie about it, you are a fucking liar. did malcom x need to tell those kind of lies? hell no, he exposed those kinds of lies, and yet today you invoke the name of the liar in the name of peace. by the time MLK finally realized his mistake -- that he had been used as a tool in the cold war -- and started to do the respectable and honorable thing -- namely, oppose american imperialism -- he was dead within months.

as the bombs fall on baghdad and all the other towns and cities in iraq, anyone who wants to complain about the inconvenience of people in a country that consumes 40% of the world's resources while they simultaneously rain down death ought to be told to shut the fuck up. you fucking racists don't give a DAMN about iraqis. you care more about your fucking latte's and you'd probably be fucking pissed to find the whole city TRULY shut down as a response to this fucking genocidal mass murder.

we should applaud ANYONE who comes out against the war, but there is this peacenik sector that is so utterly distrubed by the truths unveiled by block bloc actions.

i can only ask you: close you eyes for a moment. think of those pictures of 'shock and awe' -- can you for even one moment imagine what that is like? can you put yourselves in their shoes? what if you are in the gaza strip or basra or anywhere the american taxpayer/voter sends its death machines. can you imagine the screams of the people?

and should these people have a way to find out, what do you think they would rather hear? that people marched in peaceful circles? or that people stood up and resisted? what IS solidarity? what does it mean, REALLY?

again, if you came out against the war in any fashion i applaud and salute you! if you sat down peacefully in the street and got arrested i think you rock, seriously. if you created spectacle with puppets and theatre, i commend you. even if you marched in an obedient circle, i thank you.

but if you want to criticize the tactics that you find distasteful while mass murder is being committed on brown people once again, all i can say is fuck you. your racism and your delusions will continue to be exposed each and every day.

To Ambivalent, the author of the original post, I offer these comments with respect.

I think we should make sure we have things in perspective here.

I have been on the streets every day since Wednesday, although I haven't seen everything, as no one person could have.

I have seen no violence on the part of protesters. In the case of the last week's protests, we don't even need to get into a how-do-we-define-violence debate, because I've seen almost no property destruction (other than grafitti and some relatively innocuous newspaper box blockades) and definitely no personal violence. I have seen no black bloc activity (there was a march on Thursday by people dressed in black, but that is different from black bloc tactics, a point illustrated by the fact that the whole march was arrested, which probably wouldn't have happened if true black bloc tactics -- small groups doing hit and run actions, blending in and out of the crowd -- had been used).

Perhaps a few windows have been broken, but nothing approaching the level of Seattle. I've seen at least two Starbucks boarded up, but I understand that they boarded up to *preempt* window smashing, not because anyone attacked them.

The only violence I have seen has been on the part of the police. I am not a person given to melodramatic exaggeration, and I can honestly say that I have seen several of the worst police beatings of my life this week. On Thursday, Officer A. Nelson severely beat three people for no reason, including a neatly dressed court reporter who looked to me like she probably had her arm broken. I also saw two motorcycle cops mercilessly beat a man on the ground during the mass arrest of the "black block" at 7th and Mission.

So, we should be clear that the anti-war protests of the last days have been overwhelmingly non-violent.

HOWEVER, our non-violent tactics of stopping "business as usual" have been very effective, especially on Thursday. This has made a lot of people angry at us. The media, especially the Chron, have gone out of their way to point this out, even in an exaggerated way. It's difficult to tell how widespread the resentment is, but it is real.

Does this mean we have been wrong to do what we have done? I don't think so. If ever there was a time to place our bodies on the gears and the levers, it is now.

However, even if we think we are right, we don't want to piss of the citizenry if we can avoid it. That's basic. What can we do? We need to think about this a lot. I certainly don't have all the answers. I know that in the early days of Critical Mass (don't miss the ride this Friday, BTW) people made a point of going up the lines of blocked cars and explaining themselves to drivers, which often helped a lot. A friend told me that he did the same this week and felt like he defused a lot of anger.

Perhaps, instead of trying to shut down the entire financial district (which is becoming increasingly unsustainable anyway, because we can't bring out the necessary numbers day after day), we should start focusing on individual corporate war-related criminals. Even with relatively small numbers of people, we could be visiting targeted corporations day after day, which would continue to get our message out and slow down the war business, without ruining everyone's day.

This is a longer discussion than we can have here, but we must find a way to continue to challenge the war machine, every single day. At the same time, we must acknowledge that we have been incredibly well-behaved. Smashing all of downtown on Thursday would have been entirely justified, in my opinion, but nobody did that. I think it is wrong to say that our nighttime marches have "terrorized" anyone. On Saturday night, several hundred protesters just kept moving up and down Market, creating a fun and rebellious atmosphere (which even a lot of tourists enjoyed), and the police looked like complete buzzkill assholes for trying to stop it.

So, we need to be creative and work on evolving our tactics. This requires ideas from everyone. The bottom line is that we need to continue inflicting real economic damage where we can (to the people who deserve it) and make clear that millions of people in this country (not to mention the world) oppose this war.

In closing, we should remember that we have, so far, been very kind to the powers that soon-won't-be, and we have to keep up the fight.

To Ambivalent, the author of the original post, I offer these comments with respect.

I think we should make sure we have things in perspective here.

I have been on the streets every day since Wednesday, although I haven't seen everything, as no one person could have.

I have seen no violence on the part of protesters. In the case of the last week's protests, we don't even need to get into a how-do-we-define-violence debate, because I've seen almost no property destruction (other than grafitti and some relatively innocuous newspaper box blockades) and definitely no personal violence. I have seen no black bloc activity (there was a march on Thursday by people dressed in black, but that is different from black bloc tactics, a point illustrated by the fact that the whole march was arrested, which probably wouldn't have happened if true black bloc tactics -- small groups doing hit and run actions, blending in and out of the crowd -- had been used).

Perhaps a few windows have been broken, but nothing approaching the level of Seattle. I've seen at least two Starbucks boarded up, but I understand that they boarded up to *preempt* window smashing, not because anyone attacked them.

The only violence I have seen has been on the part of the police. I am not a person given to melodramatic exaggeration, and I can honestly say that I have seen several of the worst police beatings of my life this week. On Thursday, Officer A. Nelson severely beat three people for no reason, including a neatly dressed court reporter who looked to me like she probably had her arm broken. I also saw two motorcycle cops mercilessly beat a man on the ground during the mass arrest of the "black block" at 7th and Mission.

So, we should be clear that the anti-war protests of the last days have been overwhelmingly non-violent.

HOWEVER, our non-violent tactics of stopping "business as usual" have been very effective, especially on Thursday. This has made a lot of people angry at us. The media, especially the Chron, have gone out of their way to point this out, even in an exaggerated way. It's difficult to tell how widespread the resentment is, but it is real.

Does this mean we have been wrong to do what we have done? I don't think so. If ever there was a time to place our bodies on the gears and the levers, it is now.

However, even if we think we are right, we don't want to piss of the citizenry if we can avoid it. That's basic. What can we do? We need to think about this a lot. I certainly don't have all the answers. I know that in the early days of Critical Mass (don't miss the ride this Friday, BTW) people made a point of going up the lines of blocked cars and explaining themselves to drivers, which often helped a lot. A friend told me that he did the same this week and felt like he defused a lot of anger.

Perhaps, instead of trying to shut down the entire financial district (which is becoming increasingly unsustainable anyway, because we can't bring out the necessary numbers day after day), we should start focusing on individual corporate war-related criminals. Even with relatively small numbers of people, we could be visiting targeted corporations day after day, which would continue to get our message out and slow down the war business, without ruining everyone's day.

This is a longer discussion than we can have here, but we must find a way to continue to challenge the war machine, every single day. At the same time, we must acknowledge that we have been incredibly well-behaved. Smashing all of downtown on Thursday would have been entirely justified, in my opinion, but nobody did that. I think it is wrong to say that our nighttime marches have "terrorized" anyone. On Saturday night, several hundred protesters just kept moving up and down Market, creating a fun and rebellious atmosphere (which even a lot of tourists enjoyed), and the police looked like complete buzzkill assholes for trying to stop it.

So, we need to be creative and work on evolving our tactics. This requires ideas from everyone. The bottom line is that we need to continue inflicting real economic damage where we can (to the people who deserve it) and make clear that millions of people in this country (not to mention the world) oppose this war.

In closing, we should remember that we have, so far, been very kind to the powers that soon-won't-be, and we have to keep up the fight.

You cannot stop a fascist regime by being a nail. You must be a hammer.

The hypocracy of ANSWER and other so-called "marxist" organizations is astounding. They ostensibly stand for class war, yet they get their panties in a wad if someone breaks a window or overturns a dumpster.

I was disgusted by the so-called "mainstream" demonstrators who actually took the time to replace dumpsters that had been thrown into the streets by the more militant protestors. I bet these were the same kids in elementary school who always volunteered to "take names" when the teacher left the classroom. These people were either unaware that they were participating in a march organized by self-proclaimed "revolutionary Marxists" or they were IAC'ers who were more concerned about making their sect appealing to liberal democrats than actually taking a stance against the war.

I've had just about enough of the myriad socialist groups out there who like to huff and pufff about how they are the vanguard that will lead the people in class warfare, but then they start crying over a broken window at the INS building (which does not constitute 'violence' because no person or animal was hurt). Newsflash: A real class war will be much more violent, and most of the capitalist masters will have to be killed. Do you think they will relinquish power just because ANSWER organizes llong marches down Market street.

Something that is being skipped over in the responses to the original "Open Letter" is a longer term strategic thinking for and about our movement.

Think back a few weeks to the weekend of Feb. 14-16. In that weekend, and particularly on Saturday the 15th, we pulled 12-15 million people into the streets world wide, and hundreds upon hundreds of thousands in this country alone, in every nook and cranny of every state. That weekend shook the establishment to its bones and drove the self-confident smirks from the commentators and the politicians' faces. It revealed the isolation of
Tony Blair and Aznar, and put Chirac on notice that he'd better not cut any last-minute minute deals with the U.S. and start backing the war. The stock market dropped, city councils passed anti-war resolutions, and the news could no longer ignore the dissenting voices. Within a week the major capitalist newspaper in the US had reversed itself and was calling for no war.

True, those actions did not stop the war, but by revealing the fragility of the positions of the UK, Spanish, and Turkish, administrations viz a viz the stated anti-war majority opinion amongst their electorates, they were forced to pursue the United Nations diplomatic road a few days longer (as long as Bush would permit them). That delayed the start of the invasion and bombing by several days if not weeks. Time enough for shelters
to be strengthened, for people to stock up on supplies, and for thousands of families to get out of town, and hopefully to safety. With our actions we may have saved countless lives in Iraq, energized our own movement in a way that is carrying us forward still, and opened the debate on the war so widely that the corporate media cannot shut that door, try as they might.

However, we only did that because we, as a movement, were able to involve ordinary, run-of-the-mill, people of every age, ethnicity, and description. How many times did we not come acrosss multitudes for whom "this" --whether Jan 18, Feb. 16, or whichever-- was their first
march, rally, or political demonstration? Their presence gave the movement strength, legitimacy, depth and breadth that it would not have otherwise attained. The multitudes who turned out for the Jan 18 actions fanned out and built hundreds of local actions the following month.

That was the product of patient outreach work done with a long-haul view of the movement. By contrast, what we have been observing in the streets of San Francisco not only lacks a long-haul view of the movement, but undermines the gains that have been made into gaining
the support and participation of sectors of the population not normally associated with political action of any sort.

I had no problem with the shut-down of the financial district on Thursday, but carrying the blockading actions into the night and then into the next day, demonstrated that one sector of the movement has begun to supplant strategic thinking with tactical thinking, and indeed to hold a particular set of tactics paramount. Militancy has replaced the anti-war message and become an end in itself. How little time did it not take for anti-war chants and slogans to be replaced with "Whose streets? Our streets!"?

In the meantime, and in their wake, we have:

a) the irony --not lost on many, believe me-- that the most anti-war city in the nation is being subjected to day after day of anti-war shutdowns; that a movement that criticizes the government for spending money on warfare instead of human needs, is forcing the city
of SF to divert sity services and funds to coping with its actions.

b) thousands of irate workers, who might have been fine with being inconvenienced for one day, but get legitimately pissed when it stretches to two days or more of being made late to work (which many can't risk in these times), late to pick up kids from daycare
(which costs parents money --$1-5 per minute!), appointments, etc., potential allies now turned away.

c) a hare-brained attempt to block the Bay Bridge at evening rush hour, when just about the only people on it would have been workers going home, now off-the-clock and thus of no consequence to the corporations;

d) a growing and manipulable image of the Bay Area anti-war events as violence-prone and likely to incite strong repressive moves by the authorities.

I wonder how much bigger Saturday's march would have been, how many more thousands would have taken BART into the city from other counties if the Friday blockades and day-long cat-and-mouse with the cops hadn't happened? If every march or rally is followed up by vandalism or blockades, how many cities will grant permits for marches or rallies in the
future? How much longer will San Francisco do so?

This is not about legality --I applaud and cheer the Thursday morning blockaders who chained themselves together with their arms inside the pipes-- but about keeping open the political spaces necessary for ongoing organizing and a movement culture that will
facilitate winning the majority of the population to our side.

We did not prevent this war, we likely won't be able to stop it. But we need to start working on the next one, and you know there WILL be one, whether in Korea, Iran, the Philipines, or Pakistan. To do so we will need to stop prioritizing tactics over strategy, or immediate feel-good actions over less-flashy outreach and networking.

In solidarity,

Juan

i would have to agree, mostly.
being in the streets IS important. confronting people, opening eyes IS important. alienating "normal" people and pissing people off is counterproductive.
by far bikes not bombs, and the individual, relatively small scale and scattered marches were MOST effective. enough people to take an intersection, but enough marches to spread the police thin is definately effective.
getting arrested, taunting civilians, pissing off the police to the point of brutality is NOT effective. its only effective in discreditiing everything you stand for.

bikes not bombs and critical mass recieve alot of insults from abstructing peoples movement in cars. perfect. the point is to make bikes noticeable, acceptable as a viable means of alt. transport, and to bring to light the absurdity of sitting in a car in traffic. (and hopefully drawing the connection of car use and the oil war)...
brandishing locks and tools only happens when we feel that our safety is being threatened by crucially pissed off motorists. but never with the intent on using, mostly.
brandishing tools while marching in groups makes no sense unless for similar effect. terrorizing civilians and destoying personal property only alienates possible sympathizers.
we want people to join, not consider anti war demonstraters to be hooligans.
we are not hooligans, we are not outlaws (although we are treated as such)... we voice concerns loudly and peacefully. please try not to cause more havoc than needed. sometimes appeasing the police and avoiding injury passively is the quickest way to get back to being effective.

rock on all of you. the world is listening.

mike

I do not know the source of the photo precisely but I think I do recognize the man holding the girl as the same man who is shown in the Monday 3/24/03 Mercury 'News', front section, bottom of page 13A. There he is shown handing a wounded child to a soldier from the back of a truck in Basra. The photographer there is listed as "Nabil Mounzer" with the AP.

the power of NV is not just in acting non-violently
but also in being willing to suffer for the convictions.

Until we as a movement are able to accept the
consequences and suffering heaped on us by
the opposition, we get no where.

(this means not striking back when struck, not yelling at cops, no grafitti, no property damage, no hidden faces, no false names, no blocked intersections - while consciously hilighting and educating the cost of violence to the american people - connecting militarism abroad with oppression at home in visible ways)

(it also means intervening and interpositioning
between our people who use violent tactics and
protecting the integrity of the nv movement, so many
times I saw people picking up the newsracks and
putting them back)


this is a complicated and marginal position within a
movement that is angry, as we can see from many posts, and still it has to be.

it's US, the MIDDLE and THEM, with about a 5%, 90%, 5% split, and THEM control the media that MIDDLE reads and sees. MIDDLE believes that THEM have MIDDLE's interest at heart (US knows it ain't so).
Until MIDDLE sees that THEM don't give a shit, US are
going no where.

Whiile THEM control the media and make US look bad, MIDDLE figures US isn't concerned about MIDDLE so MIDDLE aligns with THEM instead of US. Blocking intersections gives THEM fuel for their propoganda (not to mention carrying pipes, covering your identity, etc.).

If you are against this war, show your face, say your name and be proud about your position and
your opposition. Now is not the time to hide, hit and run.

Two parts to NV - the commitment to actual physical
and deeper spiritual nonviolence (yes - LOVE your
enemy) AND taking consequences and suffering
oppression so that MIDDLE can see that THEM are
violent madmen.

we're not there yet, but we're getting there.

There are plenty of people that will dismiss this
out of hand and stay with the way of violence,
avoiding the commitment to suffer, playing
cat and mouse, attacking the MIDDLE, and playing
into THEMs hands, and until US are ready to stand
up for nonviolence, real nonviolence, we get
more violence.

Of course some of this is a position of privilege, that
I as a white man won't be killed or whatever, and so it is that I have privilege and it is my OBLIGATION to use that privilege in alliance with targeted people. This war is representative of a westernized, european culture of dominance, a white man's war - and it's up to white people to respond to OUR OWN as best we can.


In civil rights movements great lengths were taken to demonstrate the willingness of blacks to suffer to other blacks, who were absolutely not convinced that suffering was worthwhile. People actually volunteered to be struck and beaten by their own people to show their commitment. That's where were headed people if we are to surely overcome.

We did the big one, we showed the world, now we shift gears, or we stall.


Now of course this needs to be balanced with Frederic Douglas and MLKs assertions that power concedes nothing without struggle and we must make the cost for THEM of capitulating lower than the cost of maintaining the status quo, cost measured in many ways, economically, through electioneering, and also, importantly, a moral and spiritual cost.

go for it.

You compare yourselves in editorials to Martin Luther King. But he was no thug. He did not assault people. He did not scream at people driving to work. He did not destroy and litter the streets he protested in.

But you know this already. I have posted these comments before. I have seen them posted, and then I have seen them removed.

It appears that your approach to free comment, to open mindedness, to open discussion, rivals that of Saddam.

"you fucking racist pacifists make me sick that you have a moment to spare to complain about broken windows and tired cops while bombs you paid for are dropping on children is sickening."

Sounds like you haven't been paying attention. Coalition bombs are pretty damn precisely targeted at the structures and thugs of the man who gasses babies, who puts children in front of his out-of-uniform troops, who pays people to blow up children on busses just because they're jewish.

We're stopping the babykiller. And you're trying to stop this? No wonder you're lecturing other people so harsh, the internal pain you're projecting must be paralyzing.

Please clear up your delusions, because the planet needs you to think better.

<the power of NV is not just in acting non-violently
but also in being willing to suffer for the convictions.>

cut the Christian crap. taking risks for ones' convictions is exemplary. to eagerly embrace suffering for ones' convictions is asinine.

<Until we as a movement are able to accept the
consequences and suffering heaped on us by
the opposition, we get no where.>

prove it.

<this means not striking back when struck, not yelling at cops, no grafitti, no property damage, no hidden faces, no false names, no blocked intersections>

sounds like Sunday school

<while consciously hilighting and educating the cost of violence to the american people>

coming from a no-fun-allowed pious lad like you, methinks few will listen.

<it also means intervening and interpositioning
between our people who use violent tactics and
protecting the integrity of the nv movement, so many
times I saw people picking up the newsracks and
putting them back>

yes, the newsrack retrievers struck a decisive blow in the global struggle against cruelty to metal objects. but andrew, did they follow your dictum that NV crusaders must suffer for their beliefs?

<this is a complicated and marginal position within a
movement that is angry>

you, of course, have found NV religion and will never again experience that earthly emotion, but thank you for ministering to those of us who've yet to be saved.

<it's US, the MIDDLE and THEM, with about a 5%, 90%, 5% split, and THEM control the media that MIDDLE reads and sees. MIDDLE believes that THEM have MIDDLE's interest at heart (US knows it ain't so).
Until MIDDLE sees that THEM don't give a shit, US are
going no where. Whiile THEM control the media and make US look bad, MIDDLE figures US isn't concerned about MIDDLE so MIDDLE aligns with THEM instead of US.>

so the MIDDLE are stupid as rocks. is that what you're saying?

<Blocking intersections gives THEM fuel for their propoganda>

I agree. Blocking intersections is a bad tactic overall.

Now is not the time to hide, hit and run.>

but of course--our rulers consider sitting-ducks far more threatening to their plans.

<Two parts to NV - the commitment to actual physical
and deeper spiritual nonviolence (yes - LOVE your
enemy) AND taking consequences and suffering
oppression so that MIDDLE can see that THEM are
violent madmen.>

and if the MIDDLE is unmoved by the oppression you experience, at least you're absolved of guilt for all of eternity.

<we're not there yet, but we're getting there.>

there's no there there, andrew.

<There are plenty of people that will dismiss this
out of hand>

no, really?

<and stay with the way of violence>

since you consider all expressions of anger and disrespect for private property violence, you're probably right.

<Of course some of this is a position of privilege, that
I as a white man won't be killed or whatever, and so it is that I have privilege and it is my OBLIGATION to use that privilege in alliance with targeted people. This war is representative of a westernized, european culture of dominance, a white man's war - and it's up to white people to respond to OUR OWN as best we can.>

time to develop class anaylsis, andrew.

<In civil rights movements great lengths were taken to demonstrate the willingness of blacks to suffer to other blacks, who were absolutely not convinced that suffering was worthwhile.>

huh? so when we're educating the ignorant MIDDLE we should try convincing them that suffering is worthwhile? "hi, i'm with the movement, and i'd like you to suffer"--wow, that'll be a real crowd-pleaser, i'm sure.

<People actually volunteered to be struck and beaten by their own people to show their commitment. That's where were headed people if we are to surely overcome.>

time to pull out the crucifix.

<We did the big one, we showed the world, now we shift gears, or we stall.>

but stalling seems to be your goal, andrew.