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In Rachel Corrie's Own Words
..."if the Israeli military should break with
their racist tendency not to injure white people, please pin the reason
squarely on the fact that I am in the midst of a genocide which I am
also indirectly supporting, and for which my government is largely
responsible."
their racist tendency not to injure white people, please pin the reason
squarely on the fact that I am in the midst of a genocide which I am
also indirectly supporting, and for which my government is largely
responsible."
February 27 2003
(To her mother)
Love you. Really miss you. I have bad nightmares about tanks and
bulldozers outside our house and you and me inside. Sometimes the
adrenaline acts as an anesthetic for weeks and then in the evening or at
night it just hits me again - a little bit of the reality of the
situation. I am really scared for the people here. Yesterday, I watched
a father lead his two tiny children, holding his hands, out into the
sight of tanks and a sniper tower and bulldozers and Jeeps because he
thought his house was going to be exploded. Jenny and I stayed in the
house with several women and two small babies. It was our mistake in
translation that caused him to think it was his house that was being
exploded. In fact, the Israeli army was in the process of detonating an
explosive in the ground nearby - one that appears to have been planted
by Palestinian resistance.
This is in the area where Sunday about 150 men were rounded up and
contained outside the settlement with gunfire over their heads and
around them, while tanks and bulldozers destroyed 25 greenhouses - the
livelihoods for 300 people. The explosive was right in front of the
greenhouses - right in the point of entry for tanks that might come back
again. I was terrified to think that this man felt it was less of a risk
to walk out in view of the tanks with his kids than to stay in his
house. I was really scared that they were all going to be shot and I
tried to stand between them and the tank. This happens every day, but
just this father walking out with his two little kids just looking very
sad, just happened to get my attention more at this particular moment,
probably because I felt it was our translation problems that made him leave.
I thought a lot about what you said on the phone about Palestinian
violence not helping the situation. Sixty thousand workers from Rafah
worked in Israel two years ago. Now only 600 can go to Israel for jobs.
Of these 600, many have moved, because the three checkpoints between
here and Ashkelon (the closest city in Israel) make what used to be a
40-minute drive, now a 12-hour or impassible journey. In addition, what
Rafah identified in 1999 as sources of economic growth are all
completely destroyed - the Gaza international airport (runways
demolished, totally closed); the border for trade with Egypt (now with a
giant Israeli sniper tower in the middle of the crossing); access to the
ocean (completely cut off in the last two years by a checkpoint and the
Gush Katif settlement). The count of homes destroyed in Rafah since the
beginning of this intifada is up around 600, by and large people with no
connection to the resistance but who happen to live along the border. I
think it is maybe official now that Rafah is the poorest place in the
world. There used to be a middle class here - recently. We also get
reports that in the past, Gazan flower shipments to Europe were delayed
for two weeks at the Erez crossing for security inspections. You can
imagine the value of two-week-old cut flowers in the European market, so
that market dried up. And then the bulldozers come and take out people's
vegetable farms and gardens. What is left for people? Tell me if you can
think of anything. I can't.
If any of us had our lives and welfare completely strangled, lived
with children in a shrinking place where we knew, because of previous
experience, that soldiers and tanks and bulldozers could come for us at
any moment and destroy all the greenhouses that we had been cultivating
for however long, and did this while some of us were beaten and held
captive with 149 other people for several hours - do you think we might
try to use somewhat violent means to protect whatever fragments
remained? I think about this especially when I see orchards and
greenhouses and fruit trees destroyed - just years of care and
cultivation. I think about you and how long it takes to make things grow
and what a labour of love it is. I really think, in a similar situation,
most people would defend themselves as best they could. I think Uncle
Craig would. I think probably Grandma would. I think I would.
You asked me about non-violent resistance.
When that explosive detonated yesterday it broke all the windows in
the family's house. I was in the process of being served tea and playing
with the two small babies. I'm having a hard time right now. Just feel
sick to my stomach a lot from being doted on all the time, very sweetly,
by people who are facing doom. I know that from the United States, it
all sounds like hyperbole. Honestly, a lot of the time the sheer
kindness of the people here, coupled with the overwhelming evidence of
the wilful destruction of their lives, makes it seem unreal to me. I
really can't believe that something like this can happen in the world
without a bigger outcry about it. It really hurts me, again, like it has
hurt me in the past, to witness how awful we can allow the world to be.
I felt after talking to you that maybe you didn't completely believe me.
I think it's actually good if you don't, because I do believe pretty
much above all else in the importance of independent critical thinking.
And I also realise that with you I'm much less careful than usual about
trying to source every assertion that I make. A lot of the reason for
that is I know that you actually do go and do your own research. But it
makes me worry about the job I'm doing. All of the situation that I
tried to enumerate above - and a lot of other things - constitutes a
somewhat gradual - often hidden, but nevertheless massive - removal and
destruction of the ability of a particular group of people to survive.
This is what I am seeing here. The assassinations, rocket attacks and
shooting of children are atrocities - but in focusing on them I'm
terrified of missing their context. The vast majority of people here -
even if they had the economic means to escape, even if they actually
wanted to give up resisting on their land and just leave (which appears
to be maybe the less nefarious of Sharon's possible goals), can't leave.
Because they can't even get into Israel to apply for visas, and because
their destination countries won't let them in (both our country and Arab
countries). So I think when all means of survival is cut off in a pen
(Gaza) which people can't get out of, I think that qualifies as
genocide. Even if they could get out, I think it would still qualify as
genocide. Maybe you could look up the definition of genocide according
to international law. I don't remember it right now. I'm going to get
better at illustrating this, hopefully. I don't like to use those
charged words. I think you know this about me. I really value words. I
really try to illustrate and let people draw their own conclusions.
Anyway, I'm rambling. Just want to write to my Mom and tell her
that I'm witnessing this chronic, insidious genocide and I'm really
scared, and questioning my fundamental belief in the goodness of human
nature. This has to stop. I think it is a good idea for us all to drop
everything and devote our lives to making this stop. I don't think it's
an extremist thing to do anymore. I still really want to dance around to
Pat Benatar and have boyfriends and make comics for my coworkers. But I
also want this to stop. Disbelief and horror is what I feel.
Disappointment. I am disappointed that this is the base reality of our
world and that we, in fact, participate in it. This is not at all what I
asked for when I came into this world. This is not at all what the
people here asked for when they came into this world. This is not the
world you and Dad wanted me to come into when you decided to have me.
This is not what I meant when I looked at Capital Lake and said: "This
is the wide world and I'm coming to it." I did not mean that I was
coming into a world where I could live a comfortable life and possibly,
with no effort at all, exist in complete unawareness of my participation
in genocide. More big explosions somewhere in the distance outside.
When I come back from Palestine, I probably will have nightmares
and constantly feel guilty for not being here, but I can channel that
into more work. Coming here is one of the better things I've ever done.
So when I sound crazy, or if the Israeli military should break with
their racist tendency not to injure white people, please pin the reason
squarely on the fact that I am in the midst of a genocide which I am
also indirectly supporting, and for which my government is largely
responsible.
I love you and Dad. Sorry for the diatribe. OK, some strange men
next to me just gave me some peas, so I need to eat and thank them.
Rachel
(To her mother)
Love you. Really miss you. I have bad nightmares about tanks and
bulldozers outside our house and you and me inside. Sometimes the
adrenaline acts as an anesthetic for weeks and then in the evening or at
night it just hits me again - a little bit of the reality of the
situation. I am really scared for the people here. Yesterday, I watched
a father lead his two tiny children, holding his hands, out into the
sight of tanks and a sniper tower and bulldozers and Jeeps because he
thought his house was going to be exploded. Jenny and I stayed in the
house with several women and two small babies. It was our mistake in
translation that caused him to think it was his house that was being
exploded. In fact, the Israeli army was in the process of detonating an
explosive in the ground nearby - one that appears to have been planted
by Palestinian resistance.
This is in the area where Sunday about 150 men were rounded up and
contained outside the settlement with gunfire over their heads and
around them, while tanks and bulldozers destroyed 25 greenhouses - the
livelihoods for 300 people. The explosive was right in front of the
greenhouses - right in the point of entry for tanks that might come back
again. I was terrified to think that this man felt it was less of a risk
to walk out in view of the tanks with his kids than to stay in his
house. I was really scared that they were all going to be shot and I
tried to stand between them and the tank. This happens every day, but
just this father walking out with his two little kids just looking very
sad, just happened to get my attention more at this particular moment,
probably because I felt it was our translation problems that made him leave.
I thought a lot about what you said on the phone about Palestinian
violence not helping the situation. Sixty thousand workers from Rafah
worked in Israel two years ago. Now only 600 can go to Israel for jobs.
Of these 600, many have moved, because the three checkpoints between
here and Ashkelon (the closest city in Israel) make what used to be a
40-minute drive, now a 12-hour or impassible journey. In addition, what
Rafah identified in 1999 as sources of economic growth are all
completely destroyed - the Gaza international airport (runways
demolished, totally closed); the border for trade with Egypt (now with a
giant Israeli sniper tower in the middle of the crossing); access to the
ocean (completely cut off in the last two years by a checkpoint and the
Gush Katif settlement). The count of homes destroyed in Rafah since the
beginning of this intifada is up around 600, by and large people with no
connection to the resistance but who happen to live along the border. I
think it is maybe official now that Rafah is the poorest place in the
world. There used to be a middle class here - recently. We also get
reports that in the past, Gazan flower shipments to Europe were delayed
for two weeks at the Erez crossing for security inspections. You can
imagine the value of two-week-old cut flowers in the European market, so
that market dried up. And then the bulldozers come and take out people's
vegetable farms and gardens. What is left for people? Tell me if you can
think of anything. I can't.
If any of us had our lives and welfare completely strangled, lived
with children in a shrinking place where we knew, because of previous
experience, that soldiers and tanks and bulldozers could come for us at
any moment and destroy all the greenhouses that we had been cultivating
for however long, and did this while some of us were beaten and held
captive with 149 other people for several hours - do you think we might
try to use somewhat violent means to protect whatever fragments
remained? I think about this especially when I see orchards and
greenhouses and fruit trees destroyed - just years of care and
cultivation. I think about you and how long it takes to make things grow
and what a labour of love it is. I really think, in a similar situation,
most people would defend themselves as best they could. I think Uncle
Craig would. I think probably Grandma would. I think I would.
You asked me about non-violent resistance.
When that explosive detonated yesterday it broke all the windows in
the family's house. I was in the process of being served tea and playing
with the two small babies. I'm having a hard time right now. Just feel
sick to my stomach a lot from being doted on all the time, very sweetly,
by people who are facing doom. I know that from the United States, it
all sounds like hyperbole. Honestly, a lot of the time the sheer
kindness of the people here, coupled with the overwhelming evidence of
the wilful destruction of their lives, makes it seem unreal to me. I
really can't believe that something like this can happen in the world
without a bigger outcry about it. It really hurts me, again, like it has
hurt me in the past, to witness how awful we can allow the world to be.
I felt after talking to you that maybe you didn't completely believe me.
I think it's actually good if you don't, because I do believe pretty
much above all else in the importance of independent critical thinking.
And I also realise that with you I'm much less careful than usual about
trying to source every assertion that I make. A lot of the reason for
that is I know that you actually do go and do your own research. But it
makes me worry about the job I'm doing. All of the situation that I
tried to enumerate above - and a lot of other things - constitutes a
somewhat gradual - often hidden, but nevertheless massive - removal and
destruction of the ability of a particular group of people to survive.
This is what I am seeing here. The assassinations, rocket attacks and
shooting of children are atrocities - but in focusing on them I'm
terrified of missing their context. The vast majority of people here -
even if they had the economic means to escape, even if they actually
wanted to give up resisting on their land and just leave (which appears
to be maybe the less nefarious of Sharon's possible goals), can't leave.
Because they can't even get into Israel to apply for visas, and because
their destination countries won't let them in (both our country and Arab
countries). So I think when all means of survival is cut off in a pen
(Gaza) which people can't get out of, I think that qualifies as
genocide. Even if they could get out, I think it would still qualify as
genocide. Maybe you could look up the definition of genocide according
to international law. I don't remember it right now. I'm going to get
better at illustrating this, hopefully. I don't like to use those
charged words. I think you know this about me. I really value words. I
really try to illustrate and let people draw their own conclusions.
Anyway, I'm rambling. Just want to write to my Mom and tell her
that I'm witnessing this chronic, insidious genocide and I'm really
scared, and questioning my fundamental belief in the goodness of human
nature. This has to stop. I think it is a good idea for us all to drop
everything and devote our lives to making this stop. I don't think it's
an extremist thing to do anymore. I still really want to dance around to
Pat Benatar and have boyfriends and make comics for my coworkers. But I
also want this to stop. Disbelief and horror is what I feel.
Disappointment. I am disappointed that this is the base reality of our
world and that we, in fact, participate in it. This is not at all what I
asked for when I came into this world. This is not at all what the
people here asked for when they came into this world. This is not the
world you and Dad wanted me to come into when you decided to have me.
This is not what I meant when I looked at Capital Lake and said: "This
is the wide world and I'm coming to it." I did not mean that I was
coming into a world where I could live a comfortable life and possibly,
with no effort at all, exist in complete unawareness of my participation
in genocide. More big explosions somewhere in the distance outside.
When I come back from Palestine, I probably will have nightmares
and constantly feel guilty for not being here, but I can channel that
into more work. Coming here is one of the better things I've ever done.
So when I sound crazy, or if the Israeli military should break with
their racist tendency not to injure white people, please pin the reason
squarely on the fact that I am in the midst of a genocide which I am
also indirectly supporting, and for which my government is largely
responsible.
I love you and Dad. Sorry for the diatribe. OK, some strange men
next to me just gave me some peas, so I need to eat and thank them.
Rachel
Add Your Comments
Comments
(Hide Comments)
And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.
And he looked this way
and that way
and when he saw that there was no man
he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand."
Exodus 2:11-12
==========================
just another dead goy - nothing to see here folks!
move along.....
"You people will support any dictator or terrorist"
=====================================
Yitzak Shamir - ordered the assassination Count Folke Bernadotte
-- went on to became Prime Minister of Israel
=====================================
Arik Sharon - instigated the massacre of refugees at Sabra and Shatilla by the Lebanaese phalange
-- went on to become Prime Minister of Israel.
====================================
Mossad - by deception thou SHALT wage war
====================================
=====================================
Yitzak Shamir - ordered the assassination Count Folke Bernadotte
-- went on to became Prime Minister of Israel
=====================================
Arik Sharon - instigated the massacre of refugees at Sabra and Shatilla by the Lebanaese phalange
-- went on to become Prime Minister of Israel.
====================================
Mossad - by deception thou SHALT wage war
====================================
uh....Dude, by your own numbers, your saying the Arabs there far outnumbered the Jews who were there.......that's pretty much ownership to me.
"Dude, by your own numbers, your saying the Arabs there far outnumbered the Jews."
===============================
Umm...dude...please read the entire anti-zionist post of mine before jumping to silly conclusions.
Yes - the Arabs FAR OUTWEIGHED Jews - but if you read the Jewish Virtual LIE-BRARY, you can see how zionists abuse language:
FEWER THAN 250,000 Arabs!
but MORE THAN 10,000 Jews!
The virtual lie-brary is a handy tool for deciphering Israelese (a language designed to de-humanize the victim eg: a Palestinian community =a "NEST of terror" = insects/goyim)
capice?
===============================
Umm...dude...please read the entire anti-zionist post of mine before jumping to silly conclusions.
Yes - the Arabs FAR OUTWEIGHED Jews - but if you read the Jewish Virtual LIE-BRARY, you can see how zionists abuse language:
FEWER THAN 250,000 Arabs!
but MORE THAN 10,000 Jews!
The virtual lie-brary is a handy tool for deciphering Israelese (a language designed to de-humanize the victim eg: a Palestinian community =a "NEST of terror" = insects/goyim)
capice?
And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.
And he looked this way
and that way
and when he saw that there was no man
he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand."
Exodus 2:11-12
just another dead goy - nothing to see here folks!
move along.....
This crazy anti-zionism ranting is lunacy.
Jews bought the land they moved to. No one got kicked out of palestinian/israeli land until the 1948 war. Arab countries teamed up to try to kill off the jews there and take over the land that jews had spend the last 100 years buying and moving to, and many arabs who were in israel supported the death of israel.
For all the hundreds of thousands of arab refugees from that and future wars, there were hundreds of thousands of jewish refguees from arab countries.
Israel accepted jewish refugees into it.
arab countries rejected most arab refugees.
instead, arab countries just kept waging war on israel. and finally they stopped, but palestinian leaders kept right on attacking.
As for your insane summary of zionism, jews had been discriminated against in many countries around the world, and were becoming extremely desperate. Country after country proved to be unsafe for jews at one time or another for a very long time, and finally, some powerful jews tried to figure out where the hell on earth jews could be safe from that happening. Zionism was founded by non-religious jews. It was about finding a safe home for jews. Have you studied history at all? Jews were horribly discriminated against in a HUGE number of countries. Zionism was a response, it was about finding a home SOMEWHERE, ANYWHERE, wehre jews could be safe. Many places were considered for this home, it wasn't necessarily going to be israel. At one point, UGANDA was considered. But israel made sense, since (1) it was where jews came from in the first place and (2) it wasn't an actual established country yet, palestine was a "land territory" and (3) in the late 1800's, when zionism began, there were very few people living in palestine/israel. Mass immigration of jews ANd arabs began in the early 1900's, though arab immigration was unlimited, and jewish immigration was limited. Even during the holocaust, britain often rejected jews trying to flee and enter israel, and forced many of them to go back to europe to die.
Zionism was a response to the world's treatement of jews. IT was about a safe home for jews. Some jews already lived in israel/palestine, and others from the late 1800's and all through the 1900's bought land and bought homes there, and moved there. It had nothing to do with "jewish supremecy" and the LIES some of you people want to make up. How the hell can any educated person look at the history of the world's treatement of the jews in the 1700's, 1800's, and 1900's, and not understand a simple desire to have SOME PLACE on this planet where jews living in europe and in hostile middle east countries could try to be safe?
Zionism was about finding a safe home for jews. Buying land in that place. Establishing a nation. When there's war, bad things happen and refugees occur, but the goal was not "war" or "supremecy" or any sort of crazy bad stuff. Take all your horrible lies about the motivations behind zionism and shove them.
As for some bad things some people who happen to believe that israel should exist have done, not every human being of any race, religion or movement is always going to be a good person, obviously some people suck, obviously some people do the wrong thing, and obviously not all elected (or non-elected) governments always do the right thing.
So, ponting out some bad things the israeli govt may or may not have done does not affect the big picture, that (1) zionism was a response to the world's treatement of jews and the recognition that jews needed some sort of safe haven, and (2) israel's main goal is to exist and be safe.
Jews bought the land they moved to. No one got kicked out of palestinian/israeli land until the 1948 war. Arab countries teamed up to try to kill off the jews there and take over the land that jews had spend the last 100 years buying and moving to, and many arabs who were in israel supported the death of israel.
For all the hundreds of thousands of arab refugees from that and future wars, there were hundreds of thousands of jewish refguees from arab countries.
Israel accepted jewish refugees into it.
arab countries rejected most arab refugees.
instead, arab countries just kept waging war on israel. and finally they stopped, but palestinian leaders kept right on attacking.
As for your insane summary of zionism, jews had been discriminated against in many countries around the world, and were becoming extremely desperate. Country after country proved to be unsafe for jews at one time or another for a very long time, and finally, some powerful jews tried to figure out where the hell on earth jews could be safe from that happening. Zionism was founded by non-religious jews. It was about finding a safe home for jews. Have you studied history at all? Jews were horribly discriminated against in a HUGE number of countries. Zionism was a response, it was about finding a home SOMEWHERE, ANYWHERE, wehre jews could be safe. Many places were considered for this home, it wasn't necessarily going to be israel. At one point, UGANDA was considered. But israel made sense, since (1) it was where jews came from in the first place and (2) it wasn't an actual established country yet, palestine was a "land territory" and (3) in the late 1800's, when zionism began, there were very few people living in palestine/israel. Mass immigration of jews ANd arabs began in the early 1900's, though arab immigration was unlimited, and jewish immigration was limited. Even during the holocaust, britain often rejected jews trying to flee and enter israel, and forced many of them to go back to europe to die.
Zionism was a response to the world's treatement of jews. IT was about a safe home for jews. Some jews already lived in israel/palestine, and others from the late 1800's and all through the 1900's bought land and bought homes there, and moved there. It had nothing to do with "jewish supremecy" and the LIES some of you people want to make up. How the hell can any educated person look at the history of the world's treatement of the jews in the 1700's, 1800's, and 1900's, and not understand a simple desire to have SOME PLACE on this planet where jews living in europe and in hostile middle east countries could try to be safe?
Zionism was about finding a safe home for jews. Buying land in that place. Establishing a nation. When there's war, bad things happen and refugees occur, but the goal was not "war" or "supremecy" or any sort of crazy bad stuff. Take all your horrible lies about the motivations behind zionism and shove them.
As for some bad things some people who happen to believe that israel should exist have done, not every human being of any race, religion or movement is always going to be a good person, obviously some people suck, obviously some people do the wrong thing, and obviously not all elected (or non-elected) governments always do the right thing.
So, ponting out some bad things the israeli govt may or may not have done does not affect the big picture, that (1) zionism was a response to the world's treatement of jews and the recognition that jews needed some sort of safe haven, and (2) israel's main goal is to exist and be safe.
stop lying about zionism: GOOD ADVICE -- WITH YOUR LIES, HALF LIES, TWISTED LIES, SPECIOUS JUSTIFICATIONS, AND MORAL SELF-DELUSIONS.
ALL YOUR ZIONIST ARGUMENTS ARE OLLLD AROUND HERE AND HAVE ALREADY BEEN DEBUNKED ON SF.INDYMEDIA AND ELSEWHERE IN THE BAY AREA.
Go try the hinterland.
ALL YOUR ZIONIST ARGUMENTS ARE OLLLD AROUND HERE AND HAVE ALREADY BEEN DEBUNKED ON SF.INDYMEDIA AND ELSEWHERE IN THE BAY AREA.
Go try the hinterland.
What a sick map that is. Palestinian and "zionist?"
Why are "Jews" not listed? Why "Palestinian" and "zionist?"
Britain ruled the land. Britain handed control to the UN, who agreed to give control to the Jews that had currently built the nation up there. It was Jews who built up cities there. How did Israel managed to become advanced so quickly back then, think it was palestinians?
You're such a fucking sick, disgusting piece of shit, that words can't describe it.
WHta do you want to happen there, anyway? Are you rooting for the death of the millions of jews who now live there?
Why are "Jews" not listed? Why "Palestinian" and "zionist?"
Britain ruled the land. Britain handed control to the UN, who agreed to give control to the Jews that had currently built the nation up there. It was Jews who built up cities there. How did Israel managed to become advanced so quickly back then, think it was palestinians?
You're such a fucking sick, disgusting piece of shit, that words can't describe it.
WHta do you want to happen there, anyway? Are you rooting for the death of the millions of jews who now live there?
<p>dilute, polute and smear - it's the eugenically motivated ZIONAZI WAY. <p>
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p>dilute, polute and smear - it's the eugenically motivated ZIONAZI WAY.
stop lying about zionism -- A GOOD IDEA!, (Mar 19, 12:47am)
Go try the hinterland.
"Jews bought the land they moved to.", (Mar 19, 1:02am)
Response: And if your map is to try to morally justify Zionist Israel's existence (which it really doesn't), you can take your map with you [to the hinterland].
Go try the hinterland.
"Jews bought the land they moved to.", (Mar 19, 1:02am)
Response: And if your map is to try to morally justify Zionist Israel's existence (which it really doesn't), you can take your map with you [to the hinterland].
I spent over an hour cleaning pixelry mossaic from the original 200KB scan of the PALESTINE GOVERNMENT MAP of land ownership so it would shrink to 30K /16color convenience.
Thanks for rescuing thousands of Jews from concentration camps too, Count Bernadotte. We're going to kill you now....
Thanks for rescuing thousands of Jews from concentration camps too, Count Bernadotte. We're going to kill you now....
" And if your map is to try to morally justify Zionist Israel's existence (which it really doesn't), "
It was not MY map - it was from the government of PALESTINE - and NO -
IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY Der Judenstaat.
That was THE POINT. READ the map.
It was not MY map - it was from the government of PALESTINE - and NO -
IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY Der Judenstaat.
That was THE POINT. READ the map.
Thank you for the correction.
Your point was confusing to me (that's why I said "if"), especially with the old Zionist argument: "Jews bought the land they moved to."
I'm glad that indeed that was your point in showing the map--that it does NOT justify a Zionist state.
I was confused because once an arch-Zionist actually showed me an old Mideast Jewish population distribution map trying to justify--by Jewish population numbers--a Zionist state in Palestine.
I told him, "Look here, in Palestine: there is only a very small percentage of Mideast Sephardic Jews (who the "white" European Ashkenazi Jews disdained, if not hated, anyway). And look over here in *Iraq*!: there are some 250,000 Mideast Jews! [A *very* large population for the time.] And there are even *more* in Morocco! By your map 'justification' you Zionists should have colonized Iraq or rather Morocco!!"
He couldn't explain his justification for the imposed colonization, Zionist state, by European Jews of Palestine, then. Hoist by his own petard!
Your point was confusing to me (that's why I said "if"), especially with the old Zionist argument: "Jews bought the land they moved to."
I'm glad that indeed that was your point in showing the map--that it does NOT justify a Zionist state.
I was confused because once an arch-Zionist actually showed me an old Mideast Jewish population distribution map trying to justify--by Jewish population numbers--a Zionist state in Palestine.
I told him, "Look here, in Palestine: there is only a very small percentage of Mideast Sephardic Jews (who the "white" European Ashkenazi Jews disdained, if not hated, anyway). And look over here in *Iraq*!: there are some 250,000 Mideast Jews! [A *very* large population for the time.] And there are even *more* in Morocco! By your map 'justification' you Zionists should have colonized Iraq or rather Morocco!!"
He couldn't explain his justification for the imposed colonization, Zionist state, by European Jews of Palestine, then. Hoist by his own petard!
and sorry for shouting. - multinyms probably don't help my case for clarity. ;)
you can find the original map , plus an exquisitely detailed 4.2meg (.jpg) map of Palestine embellished with Moshe Dayan's signature at palestineremembered.com.
and you might like this - it should be mandatory:
The Trouble with Beliefs: Confusing the Map with the Territory
http://www.nobeliefs.com/MapandTerritory.htm
you can find the original map , plus an exquisitely detailed 4.2meg (.jpg) map of Palestine embellished with Moshe Dayan's signature at palestineremembered.com.
and you might like this - it should be mandatory:
The Trouble with Beliefs: Confusing the Map with the Territory
http://www.nobeliefs.com/MapandTerritory.htm
You're a sick, crazed lunatic. If you did things this way you could undo most nations on earth. Do you live in America? Why don't you post "Before and After" photos of Native Americans here and colonialists busting in and settling here? Why don't you point out how middle east nations were all carved up? And how regimes were installed there against the will of the people that should be overturned? Why don't you also show maps of European nations? Why don't you also discuss the kurds?
Why do you and your sick fucking friends focus all your venom on Israel, and ignore that this is how nations get built, people settle, and they gain control of the nation, and in this case the actual land owners (britain, then the UN) agreed to make it a nation...
What is your point exactly? What do you want? This is year 2003, Israel isn't leaving, and while I know you respect every hamas member who tries to kill every jew in israel that they can, hamas aren't going to succeed, and they aren't helping their own people. Neither has Arafat.
Why do you and your sick fucking friends focus all your venom on Israel, and ignore that this is how nations get built, people settle, and they gain control of the nation, and in this case the actual land owners (britain, then the UN) agreed to make it a nation...
What is your point exactly? What do you want? This is year 2003, Israel isn't leaving, and while I know you respect every hamas member who tries to kill every jew in israel that they can, hamas aren't going to succeed, and they aren't helping their own people. Neither has Arafat.
In loving memory of Rachel Corrie
The Palestinian children are asking where did our Rachel go? Where did our real Superwoman go? Who is going to protect us now? There was no answer. Rachel, I have never met you before, I have never heard about you before But it is as though I have known you all my life, as though I went with you to school. That we used to hang out together. Rachel you have left your country, a thousand miles away. You traveled to a foreign land, dangerous land, to protect people unrelated to you. People, you realized, are just human beings like you. People who could not protect themselves. You died defending other innocent human beings. You died in line of duty ( a peace and a justice duty) You are a martyr of peace, What a noble way to leave this earth. Rachel, now that you are up there, do not think for a second that your job has ceased here on earth. You can still pray for the Palestinian children, that one day they may forget About tanks, bomb shells, rubber bullets, snipers, explosions, demolitions of houses, check points, and death, That one day they will go back to school, that one day they will not see the fear on their fathers eyes, on their mothers eyes, that one day they will stop considering suicide bombers, as their idols, that one day they will be like... the children in your home town, Olympia, that they can wake up on the morning and find breakfast ready on the kitchen table, a bole of cereal, may be a glass of orange juice, some water from the tap not from the well miles away, the school bus waiting, yes Rachel, the Palestinian children miss you and still need you, we all miss you. The Palestinian children are proud of you, your parents are proud of you, we are all proud of you, and this earth is grateful for the short time you spent here with us, always doing what you beleived was right. In the region you loved most, people do not cry when a martyr dies, rather they sing, your parent should also sing when they think of you. Fly in the sky, rest in peace, peace that you so much loved.
A fellow human being Amezzane
The Palestinian children are asking where did our Rachel go? Where did our real Superwoman go? Who is going to protect us now? There was no answer. Rachel, I have never met you before, I have never heard about you before But it is as though I have known you all my life, as though I went with you to school. That we used to hang out together. Rachel you have left your country, a thousand miles away. You traveled to a foreign land, dangerous land, to protect people unrelated to you. People, you realized, are just human beings like you. People who could not protect themselves. You died defending other innocent human beings. You died in line of duty ( a peace and a justice duty) You are a martyr of peace, What a noble way to leave this earth. Rachel, now that you are up there, do not think for a second that your job has ceased here on earth. You can still pray for the Palestinian children, that one day they may forget About tanks, bomb shells, rubber bullets, snipers, explosions, demolitions of houses, check points, and death, That one day they will go back to school, that one day they will not see the fear on their fathers eyes, on their mothers eyes, that one day they will stop considering suicide bombers, as their idols, that one day they will be like... the children in your home town, Olympia, that they can wake up on the morning and find breakfast ready on the kitchen table, a bole of cereal, may be a glass of orange juice, some water from the tap not from the well miles away, the school bus waiting, yes Rachel, the Palestinian children miss you and still need you, we all miss you. The Palestinian children are proud of you, your parents are proud of you, we are all proud of you, and this earth is grateful for the short time you spent here with us, always doing what you beleived was right. In the region you loved most, people do not cry when a martyr dies, rather they sing, your parent should also sing when they think of you. Fly in the sky, rest in peace, peace that you so much loved.
A fellow human being Amezzane
Rachel describes Israel's attempt to destroy the very *existence* of the Palestinians. All the while, the Israeli's incessantly tell us that their existence is threatened.
Apparently Rachel's own mother did not believe what she was telling her. It's such a shame that it took Rachel's death to drive what she was saying home.
The above letter written by Rachel to her mother is so eloquent and describes a reality that is completely censored from our media in order to keep Israel rich in our tax dollars and weapons.
It is so, so sad that such an eloquent voice for justice and humanity was so cruelly and horrendously silenced.
At the very least I think we owe it to her to read what she had to say about the facts as she described them and to act appropriately with that knowledge.
PLEASE, Please read the above letter from her in which she so prophetically predicted her own murder at the hands of the Israelis.
Apparently Rachel's own mother did not believe what she was telling her. It's such a shame that it took Rachel's death to drive what she was saying home.
The above letter written by Rachel to her mother is so eloquent and describes a reality that is completely censored from our media in order to keep Israel rich in our tax dollars and weapons.
It is so, so sad that such an eloquent voice for justice and humanity was so cruelly and horrendously silenced.
At the very least I think we owe it to her to read what she had to say about the facts as she described them and to act appropriately with that knowledge.
PLEASE, Please read the above letter from her in which she so prophetically predicted her own murder at the hands of the Israelis.
Hi. I'm a zionist. A zionist is some who believes that the Jewish people deserve a safe homeland on this planet. It has nothing to do with anything other than that. Safety for a people. Political means to make that happen are a different story.
I feel badly about Rachel Corrie. That's really horrible.
I know that her organization also protected actual Hamas militant palestinians in the past, and I don't approve of that, but that does not excuse what occured the other day.
It should be noted that saying "The Israeli army" killed her isn't really accurate. One Israeli Army bulldozer driver killed her. It is not policy to do such a thing. Such an event does not benefit Israel in any way.
I feel badly that the leaders of the Palestinian people, for about 40 years now, cared more about destroying Israel, one Jew at a time if necessary, than the well-being of their own people. And I feel badly that the Israeli army, when hunting for terrorists, manages to also sometimes kill innocent people. I'm also sorry that Arab countries that made war with Israel didn't accept Palestinian refugees, like Israel accepted Jewish refugees from arab countries.
I believe the #1 goal of Israel is to continue to exist. It will do just that. THe only question is whether Palestinians get their own state or not. Unfortunately, regardless of how innocent some are, or some aren't, Arafat has been a horrible, horrible leader, and Hamas are only making Israel to respond more strongly.
When JOrdan fought with Palestinians (see "BLack September, 1970's,) King Hussein didn't do what Israel does (hunt specific individuals, occasionally hurting innocents in the process). King Hussein of Jordan just said "screw this, the palestinians have pissed me off" and he went and killed tens of thousands of them in the span of a month or two. Perhaps Israel's biggest mistake was not taking the same approach long ago. Maybe the problem would be solved by now. Beause Palestinians stopped messing with Jordan after King Hussein did that.
War is ugly.
I want a safe Israel, and I would like the Palestinians to get their own state, but only if it's run by responsible leaders who really, really want peace. There is no way anyone familiar with the lifetime history of Arafat can believe that he is that man. And Hamas are the most extreme of them all.
When Palestinians are better represented, and Hamas are destroyed or broken up, and there is less terrorism, Israelis will vote for moderate leaders, as they have just a few years ago, and things will progress.
I feel badly about Rachel Corrie. That's really horrible.
I know that her organization also protected actual Hamas militant palestinians in the past, and I don't approve of that, but that does not excuse what occured the other day.
It should be noted that saying "The Israeli army" killed her isn't really accurate. One Israeli Army bulldozer driver killed her. It is not policy to do such a thing. Such an event does not benefit Israel in any way.
I feel badly that the leaders of the Palestinian people, for about 40 years now, cared more about destroying Israel, one Jew at a time if necessary, than the well-being of their own people. And I feel badly that the Israeli army, when hunting for terrorists, manages to also sometimes kill innocent people. I'm also sorry that Arab countries that made war with Israel didn't accept Palestinian refugees, like Israel accepted Jewish refugees from arab countries.
I believe the #1 goal of Israel is to continue to exist. It will do just that. THe only question is whether Palestinians get their own state or not. Unfortunately, regardless of how innocent some are, or some aren't, Arafat has been a horrible, horrible leader, and Hamas are only making Israel to respond more strongly.
When JOrdan fought with Palestinians (see "BLack September, 1970's,) King Hussein didn't do what Israel does (hunt specific individuals, occasionally hurting innocents in the process). King Hussein of Jordan just said "screw this, the palestinians have pissed me off" and he went and killed tens of thousands of them in the span of a month or two. Perhaps Israel's biggest mistake was not taking the same approach long ago. Maybe the problem would be solved by now. Beause Palestinians stopped messing with Jordan after King Hussein did that.
War is ugly.
I want a safe Israel, and I would like the Palestinians to get their own state, but only if it's run by responsible leaders who really, really want peace. There is no way anyone familiar with the lifetime history of Arafat can believe that he is that man. And Hamas are the most extreme of them all.
When Palestinians are better represented, and Hamas are destroyed or broken up, and there is less terrorism, Israelis will vote for moderate leaders, as they have just a few years ago, and things will progress.
Israel isn't fighting for its existence. Palestinians are.
Israel is trying to end the Palestinians' existence in order to steal the remaining land from them. Israel is committing daily war crimes against Palestinians -- like settlers continuously and shooting into their homes with impunity.
That is the crux of the conflict. And its not a conflict between equals. We here in America have made sure of that -- we give Israel all its weapons, help keep the Palestinians defenseless, and block the UN and the rest of the world from helping them.
Rachel Corrie was over there because of the US government's blocking of UN Resolutions.
This is a race war that Israel is conducting (and has been since 1948) in order to "purify" the land for themselves.
Israel isn't finished stealing more land, expanding its borders that it has never officially defined, and ethnically cleansing the region of its local inhabitants.
All we need to do here is cut off all our aid to this despicable country and allow all the UN Resolutions meant to bring justice to the Palestinians a chance to work (like evicting Israel from the Occupied Territories and forcing Israel to compensate those who lost their homes or allow them to return to those homes). In addition, UN Resolutions designed to disarm Israel of its weapons of mass destruction should be implemented. Israel, let the UN INSPECTORS in.
AND Israel must give *equal* rights to Palestinians living in Israel -- not just second class citizenship with separate and inferior schools, hospitals and neighborhoods.
This is pure racism that we are supporting and we wonder why anyone hates us.
Once this is done, there will be peace in the Middle East and no more threat of terror against us because we would no longer be wholeheartedly supporting Israel's *daily* terrorism against Palestinian civilians.
Israel is trying to end the Palestinians' existence in order to steal the remaining land from them. Israel is committing daily war crimes against Palestinians -- like settlers continuously and shooting into their homes with impunity.
That is the crux of the conflict. And its not a conflict between equals. We here in America have made sure of that -- we give Israel all its weapons, help keep the Palestinians defenseless, and block the UN and the rest of the world from helping them.
Rachel Corrie was over there because of the US government's blocking of UN Resolutions.
This is a race war that Israel is conducting (and has been since 1948) in order to "purify" the land for themselves.
Israel isn't finished stealing more land, expanding its borders that it has never officially defined, and ethnically cleansing the region of its local inhabitants.
All we need to do here is cut off all our aid to this despicable country and allow all the UN Resolutions meant to bring justice to the Palestinians a chance to work (like evicting Israel from the Occupied Territories and forcing Israel to compensate those who lost their homes or allow them to return to those homes). In addition, UN Resolutions designed to disarm Israel of its weapons of mass destruction should be implemented. Israel, let the UN INSPECTORS in.
AND Israel must give *equal* rights to Palestinians living in Israel -- not just second class citizenship with separate and inferior schools, hospitals and neighborhoods.
This is pure racism that we are supporting and we wonder why anyone hates us.
Once this is done, there will be peace in the Middle East and no more threat of terror against us because we would no longer be wholeheartedly supporting Israel's *daily* terrorism against Palestinian civilians.
You're amazingly backwards in your analysis.
And as an aside, it's not a "race" war. Almost 20% of Israeli citizens are arab and/or muslim. Israel is not fighting with them. Israel is fighting with a group of people who for 40 years have been led by Arafat, a man who wanted to get rid of Israel. Palestinians are not a separate "race" of people from hundreds of thousands of people who are current israeli citizens and not being attacked. Israel is not fighting with the Arabs in Jordan, who are mostly the same race as the palestinians.
It's not a "race" war. It's a war between Israel's government and Arafat/Hamas/Islamic Jihad and their supporters.
And as an aside, it's not a "race" war. Almost 20% of Israeli citizens are arab and/or muslim. Israel is not fighting with them. Israel is fighting with a group of people who for 40 years have been led by Arafat, a man who wanted to get rid of Israel. Palestinians are not a separate "race" of people from hundreds of thousands of people who are current israeli citizens and not being attacked. Israel is not fighting with the Arabs in Jordan, who are mostly the same race as the palestinians.
It's not a "race" war. It's a war between Israel's government and Arafat/Hamas/Islamic Jihad and their supporters.
And that 20% Palestinian population in Israel is discriminated against and even attacked and killed in non-violent demonstrations by racist Israeli police.
Just read what Rachel Corrie says above.
The Palestinians' existence is being destroyed by Israel.
Israel daily destroys their wells, greenhouses, homes, and shoots their children in the head. If Palestinians did even 1/10th to Israelis what Israel does to the Palestinians *daily*, everyone would be speaking of a resurgence of Nazism.
Just read the letter she wrote to her mother if you have the guts.
The Palestinians' existence is being destroyed by Israel.
Israel daily destroys their wells, greenhouses, homes, and shoots their children in the head. If Palestinians did even 1/10th to Israelis what Israel does to the Palestinians *daily*, everyone would be speaking of a resurgence of Nazism.
Just read the letter she wrote to her mother if you have the guts.
In the above letter that she wrote to her mother, Rachel describes Israel's attempt to destroy the very *existence* of the Palestinians. All the while, the Israeli's incessantly tell us that their existence is threatened.
Apparently Rachel's own mother did not believe what she was telling her (Rachel even admitted that to us here in the US what she says must seem like hyperbole). It's such a shame that it took Rachel's death to drive home what she was saying.
Rachel is very eloquent and describes a reality that is completely censored from our media in order to keep Israel rich in our tax dollars and weapons.
It is so, so sad that such an eloquent voice for justice, *real* peace and human rights was so cruelly and hideously silenced.
At the very least I think we owe it to her to listen to what she had to say about the facts as she saw them and to act appropriately with that knowledge.
PLEASE, Please read the following letter from her in which she so prophetically predicted her own murder at the hands of the Israelis.
Apparently Rachel's own mother did not believe what she was telling her (Rachel even admitted that to us here in the US what she says must seem like hyperbole). It's such a shame that it took Rachel's death to drive home what she was saying.
Rachel is very eloquent and describes a reality that is completely censored from our media in order to keep Israel rich in our tax dollars and weapons.
It is so, so sad that such an eloquent voice for justice, *real* peace and human rights was so cruelly and hideously silenced.
At the very least I think we owe it to her to listen to what she had to say about the facts as she saw them and to act appropriately with that knowledge.
PLEASE, Please read the following letter from her in which she so prophetically predicted her own murder at the hands of the Israelis.
RE: cheers
by Folke Bernadotte of the UN Wednesday March 19, 2003 at 04:11 AM.
Reply: Thanks! And thanks for the references!
I trust you have seen/read Gandhi's 1938 statement on Palestine, called, "The Jews in Palestine, 1938". You can see a copy by doing a Google search. Eloquent reading. More Zionists need to read it--as though it would change, or give pause to, their minds.
I think that Palestine would have been one of the safest place in the world for Jews--they, a small percentage of Sephardic Jews, had already lived there, in Palestine, in peace (as they had in most of the Arab world, as you undoubtedly know)--if European Jews had gone there in, as Gandhi said, the spirit of peace and cooperation, and developed and advanced a society and a country together with the Palestinians, instead of trying to first systematically or, later, brutally dispossess and oppress them.
(I'm up way too late watching news about the war. I'm sure Israel will try to use that as media cover to take giant measures to brutalize and dispossess even more Palestinians.)
Take care.
by Folke Bernadotte of the UN Wednesday March 19, 2003 at 04:11 AM.
Reply: Thanks! And thanks for the references!
I trust you have seen/read Gandhi's 1938 statement on Palestine, called, "The Jews in Palestine, 1938". You can see a copy by doing a Google search. Eloquent reading. More Zionists need to read it--as though it would change, or give pause to, their minds.
I think that Palestine would have been one of the safest place in the world for Jews--they, a small percentage of Sephardic Jews, had already lived there, in Palestine, in peace (as they had in most of the Arab world, as you undoubtedly know)--if European Jews had gone there in, as Gandhi said, the spirit of peace and cooperation, and developed and advanced a society and a country together with the Palestinians, instead of trying to first systematically or, later, brutally dispossess and oppress them.
(I'm up way too late watching news about the war. I'm sure Israel will try to use that as media cover to take giant measures to brutalize and dispossess even more Palestinians.)
Take care.
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