Pictures From First Half Of Breakaway March

Someone dropped a smoke bomb near the police. It was a VERY small smoke bomb. The police kicked it toward the protestors and this guy picked it up and threw it - underhanded - away from the crowd. It bounced off the ground and hit a cop in the shoe. They rushed the crowd, tackled him, and arrested him... he's being charged with Felony Assault.

That's a sweet banner. We support our troops, fucking right.

Vote to Impeach bu$h,cheney--Info, Link

The U.S. Constitution provides the means for preventing George W. Bush from engaging in a war of aggression against Iraq, and from advancing a first strike potentially nuclear preemptive war. It's called impeachment.

High Crimes and Misdemeanors
Impeachment is the direct constitutional means for removing a President, Vice President or other civil officers of the United States who has acted or threatened acts that are serious offenses against the Constitution, its system of government, or the rule of law, or that are conventional crimes of such a serious nature that they would injure the Presidency if there was no removal.

A Constitutional Imperative
Impeachment appears six times in the U.S. Constitution. The Founders weren't concerned with anything more than with impeachment because they had lived under King George III and had in 1776 accused the king of all the things that George W. Bush wants to do: Usurpation of the power of the people; Being above the law; Criminal abuse of authority.

Power Remains in the Hands of the People
Impeachment is the means by which We The People of the United States and our elected representatives in Congress can prevent further crimes by the President and the human catastrophe they threaten and force accountability for crimes committed.

Save the Constitution, the U.N., and Countless Human Lives
Congressional proceedings for impeachment can bring about open, fearless consideration of the most dangerous acts and threats ever committed by an American President. If courageously pursued, they can save our Constitution, the United Nations, the rule of law, the lives of countless people and leave open the possibility of peace on earth.

The Time for Action is Now
Each of us must take a stand on impeachment now, or bear the burden of having failed to speak in this hour of maximum peril.

Vote to Impeach Here:
http://www.votetoimpeach.org

So, this directly implies that you're a monarchist, Patrick?

Well, please consider moving to a kingdom, then. There are plenty around - for instance, our allies Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

>divine right

This refers to a comment that was removed because it contained a link to a warmongering website.

No, you cannot advertise that crap here.

The man, smitty, was arrested for felony battery, and delaying(any one know what that is?) he was held on $6000 bail. The gilman street coop managed to raisse the $600 needed to post a bond and he was released at about 3am.

How pathetic.

There are many well-reasoned pts to make when arguing for/against military means for addressing the Iraq situation. When I saw this, I was convinced the pro-war camp must have infiltrated the demonstration to show Americans how reflexively antagonistic the anti-war camp is to mainstream American values.

Thanks guys. With signs like this you just made our task of gaining mindshare impossible.

hey, if you have video or saw me getting arrested (the last picture, the smoke bomb incident) you should give me an email at cotosiestalo @ yahoo . com
thanks.

That assumes that everyone thinks like you, acts like you, etc. Quit being so egotistical. Fact is, the stupid peace love and hippiness shit turns off 80% of normal Americans.

You can see any opinion you want. Our opinion, you can see on our site. Other people's opinions, you can see on their sites. That's how it is on the internet. Get used to it. Or log off. Either way is fine with us.

But do not expect us to use our personal time, skills and money to facilitate the distribution of enemy propaganda. We opt out of that. Speech is free. Hosting is not. It costs money, our money. We have no intention of spending for the benefit of our enemies. This place is for our community, our friends and our allies. The rest of you are wasting your time here. Wise up. Get over it. Leave. You’ll be glad you did.

sf.indymedia.org considers zionists "the enemy," it seems. So, people who believe in the right of Jews to have a safe homeland on this planet, after 1500 years of discrimination and death, are considered "the enemy" by the editors here.

So, are hamas, who are trying to kill every israeli jew they can, the good guys?

Adolf Hitler would have loved this website.

You take it way beyond political. You don't just criticize the israeli government, or the IDF, you demonize every aspect of israel and israeli jews, and you intentionally ignore what arabs did and continue to do that should be considered wrong.

sf.indymedia.org doesn't appear to object to arab countries destroying their jewish communities. they only care about how israel handles their terrorist neighbors.

what gives zionists the right to throw people off of land that they have been living off on for 2000 years?

you fucking zionist trash can't answer that question with resorting to either 'might makes right' or 'the bible says so.' that's why we rightly describe you as fascists.

hamas? are you aware of the FACT that hamas was funded, aided, and supported by the israeli government, through the shin bet, in order to create an alternative to the PLO, which represented a secular faction?

what the fuck do you know about adolf hitler? your zionist heroes COLLABORATED WITH HITLER to move jews out of europe and into isreal. not to mention that your good zionist buddy bush's granddaddy was a major nazi financier and his daddy has actual real life nzis on his 1988 campaign.

so take your zionist lies and choke on them. please, either educate yourself or shott yourself. NOW.

By "sf.indymedia.org", do you mean the people who post to the site or do you mean the people who maintain it?

Jews bought homes and land and immigrated further and further into israel/palestine for decades, and land ownership was handed to them by the current owners (britain, who turned it to the UN, who agreed to recognize israel.)

Everyone of every religion currently living in Israel was made an Israeli citizen. When, at the same time, arab countries started revoking the citizenship of jews.

No one got kicked out or lost their homes in israel until arabs began the 1948 war. war is ugly stuff. and there were refugees on both sides, not just one.

'zionists didn't throw anyone off land until the actual war began against israel"

THIS IS A LIE. thousands upon thousands of palestinians were rounded up, massacred, threatened, expelled, and murdered by the zionist regime before and after 1948.

notice how the zionist scumbag didn't have anything to say about hamas and the shin bet. notice how there was no refutation of the FACT that zionists collaborated with ADOLF HITLER.

well guess what, there are courageous and astute jews IN ISRAEL who have found out and told the whole world that the mossad and its precursors were responsible for the terrorism against jews in arab countries. jews had lived in peace side by side with arabs until the zionists came around.

face the facts, you fucking piece of zionist filth. zionism is the single most anti-semetic ideology on the planet. zionists hate real jews AND they hate real semites.

you can only support zionism with lies.

What are you saying here?

Are you admiting that people "got kicked out or lost their homes," and saying it was an OK thing to do because there was a war on, and when there's a war on, it's OK to kick people out of their homes? Is that what you're saying?

Or are you denying that people got kicked out of their homes?

I do not believe shooting officers is within the philosophy of the peace movement. Completely irresponsible and hypocritical message.

Mr. More Truth for you; I see it so clearly now. Some guys buy big trucks and other buy fast cars, but your way of compensating is by talking about zionists.

So I suppose if we use the normal equation, your penis size is inversely proportional to the number of palestinians that you think zionists kill... right?

this picture does not do your cause any good

I had the the pleasure of riding BART this morning with a very passionate, post-teen protester who got on at the Lafayette station. She expounded ad-nauseum about the "brutality" of the police during the previous days protests. What could this papered suburbanite woman-child possibly know about brutality? I at least commend her for taking public transport to the protests unlike the hundreds of Oakland residents I see on the streets every day that are curiously absent from BART in the early mornings. Unfortunately I think this is pretty much the rule for a lot of protesters out there. Is the hypocrisy of driving to San Francisco in a gas guzzling, punk rock, econoline van lost on these folks? Maybe the fact that a war of sorts has been waged on the poor brown and black folks of Oakland for the last 2 decades has been lost on the majority of East Bay protesters as well? Why is it so much more appealling to make entirely symbolic protest in San Francisco than to do something real in one's own community? I guess the answer is it's just not as much fun as chasing and being chased by a bunch of cops (when they aren't standing around with their dicks in their hands) through the streets on a work day. But that's okay, drive your cars to the protest, stand around drinking coffee with a sign in your hand, what ever makes you happy or feel like you are making a difference in a world so completely controled the idea of 6000 people changing anything about global politics is completely laughable.
p.s. I used to believe in some thing before I moved here and did politics for a couple of years with you wankers

You poor fuckers. You have just made yourselves completely irrelevant with your message and youre tactics. I am amazed at the antagonistic actions towards the only mouthpiece you pathetic nimtards had - the local media.

The comments I read hear are very disturbing. Since when did the progressives embrace the ideals of the Nazi fascist ideologue?

I have been looking at some of the anti-Zionist retoric here. I must say that you guys are sounding more and more like the far right group like the Spectator and Pat Buchanan. Sorry about the spelling I'm from New Zealand. I'm against this war, but you blokes have gone way to far. I don't see any arguments here just pure hatred. Here the left doesn't embrace the type of violant hatred that you have. I think this may have alot to do with the slide to the right that the U.S. is going through.

You think that's funny that we carry signs that promote what our ENEMY is ALREADY DOING? Who's better here now, the supposed peacekeepers or the army, or sadaam hussein?? Whether you are for the war or not, this sign is an outrage. Maybe the people carrying it should be shot. I can't believe that someone wanting to promote PEACE is talking about shooting thier own, and that you guys are promoting it!!!

The sign "We support our troops when they shoot their officers" does your cause no good, nor does the photo of the idiot with Teutonic crosses that look suspiciously like Nazi regalia. All in all, this looks like the same organized gang of criminals who disruped the WTO meetings a while back ... and not peace protestors.

Looks like the wrong people got the message:

Conscripts shoot their own officers rather than fight
From Tom Newton Dunn with 40 Commando near al-Faw, southern Iraq

IRAQI conscripts shot their own officers in the chest yesterday to avoid a fruitless fight over the oil terminals at al-Faw. British soldiers from 40 Commando’s Charlie Company found a bunker full of the dead officers, with spent shells from an AK47 rifle around them.

This act was a display of true civil disobedience of Iraqi working class people against there "socialist" (i.e., state capitalist) officers. Similarly, in the Vietnam War, "Amerikkkan" soldiers wisened up about the capitalist war and the killing of innocent people (on both sides) for oil, dominance, etc. when they fought the centralised military machine of the State by refusing to fight anymore. Hopefully, if the gruesome, horrible, mass slaughter of not only brainwashed soldiers on both sides, but also Iraqi civilians (including men not fighting, as well as wimmin and children) continues, a similar act of defiance against this horrible capitalist war will be carried out. That being said, I'd like to close with some age old phrases:
ALL POWER TO THE PEOPLE, NOT THE STATE!!!!!!
NO WAR FOR OIL!!!!!!!!!
1-2-3-4--STOP THE WAR AGAINST THE POOR!
5-6-7-8--ORGANISE AND SMASH THE STATE!
HELL, NO!!!! WE WON'T GO!!!!!!!!
OFF THE PIGS!!!!!!!!!
FIGHT THE STATE, NOT ITS WARS!!!!!!!!!!
NO BUSINESS AS USUAL!!!!!!!!!

...and of course.... NO WAR BUT THE CLASS WAR!!!!!!!!

The anti-war movement HATES the liberation of Iraqis.

The Iraqis, not subject to the authoritairianism of the anti-war movement, love their new-found freedom.

The Iraqi's are thanking us. The idiots protesting in NY and elsewhere are naive, immature, closed minded, and dis-respectful of their freedom.

Here is a picture of an Iraqui citizen HUGGING a U.S. soldier. These activists who are blindly anti-war just because all the other college kids are doing it should take a look and do some reading. Removing Sadam is bold, brave, and a wise move by the U.S.

I invite one and all to add their comments on and experiences in the war on SF's poor and working class by the protester wienies in the last few days. Please go to
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/03/1587472.php
Positive suggestions as to how protest might actually DO SOMETHING, intelligently, would be most welcome.

Many people want to see a change in our country and want to stop the rich getting richer while the poor get poorer. The behavior and signs I saw are alienating the very people many of you claim to advocate for.

I've participated in my share of marches, sit-ins, etc.. and am not against these as a form of social change.

You have to keep your goal in mind and not allow yourselves to be used by people who may actually like violence and inequality, only they want it under their control and on their terms. Same problems, different set of masters.

I assume you want change? If you do, the violence has to go. You can't claim to be for peace and equality when your behavior takes peace and equality away from people during your demonstrations.

I work with some elderly poor and physically-challenged poor people. These people have the right to be treated with dignity and respect and go about whatever business that needs attending. Some of them have needs that can't wait, even when a group of people has determined to shut down businesses.

The elderly and physically-challenged poor don't have the luxury of avoiding some of the protest areas. They can't just hop into their SUVs and go someplace else.

The violence frightens them. It does not convince them you are trying to change things so their lives are better.

If you care about what you claim, please change your tactics. You are losing support among people. Your message is coming across as the opposite of what you want.

Peace to all,
Rachel

Hey, I got home and I looked at ABC news, and they were showing an on-site reporter who went to Baghdad that same picture of the guy dancing, and he said that in contrast, he hadn't seen anything like that, and showed his own translated footage of Iraqi men coming out and not attacking him, but asking harsh questions about why they were there, and whether and for how long the US is taking over the country. Iraqis hate Hussein, but they don't want another dictator either. This segment really influenced me... and I think it will become clear whether the anecdotal picture of the dancing guy, and the reporter encountering the angry men, is more accurate. It will only take a couple weeks to see whether everyone will come running out of their doors in Baghdad and shower them with flower petals.

You're like a bad character out of one of those dumb Austin Powers movies. Think of some phrases that are a little more original, or at least applicable to this decade, or maybe move someplace where you'll be happier like Cuba or North Korea.

You're like a bad character out of one of those dumb Austin Powers movies. Think of some phrases that are a little more original, or at least applicable to this decade, or maybe move someplace where you'll be happier like Cuba or North Korea.

Hate to say it, but this first picture has been making the rounds of the right-wing sites.

Especially in the wake of the deaths at Camp Pennsylvannia by the guy who lobbed grenades into the tents of his officers.

The war is immoral, but this pic isn't helping the cause in light of these events. There's no need to give them anything legitimate to complain about. Take down the picture.

This top pic is making the rounds, especially in light of what happened to the officers in the 101st airborne.

This isn't helping things. It's a little too topical, and a little too callous. For the sake of the credibility of the anti-war movement, take this pic down.

The protest is against war, but advocates violence?

The protest is against war, but advocates violence?

You really should take that first image down. You know, whether you wish to admit it or not, it is the folks in the military who ultimately protect YOUR right to make asinine and stupid comments like this. If you want America to listen to you, posting and cheering images of dumbasses with signs exhorting violence is never going to work.

Get relevant or you guys will only succeed in hardening American opinion against your legitimate protests.

God, I am so disgusted.

You really should take that first image down. You know, whether you wish to admit it or not, it is the folks in the military who ultimately protect YOUR right to make asinine and stupid comments like this. If you want America to listen to you, posting and cheering images of dumbasses with signs exhorting violence is never going to work.

Get relevant or you guys will only succeed in hardening American opinion against your legitimate protests.

God, I am so disgusted.

who do you mean by "you guys?" the collective that runs the site? the person that actually took the pictures and posted them on the open publishing newswire? read this if you're confused: http://www.indybay.org/process/disclaimer.php

You are a bunch of morons for the first picture. Go live in Iraq and then see how you feel about it. I have yet to hear an Iraqi that has been exiled to the US be against the war. Usually because Saddam was killing their families. You're all idiots. You have you're free speech, I have mine and you are a bunch of scum douchebags. At least support the troops.

You are a bunch of morons for the first picture. Go live in Iraq and then see how you feel about it. I have yet to hear an Iraqi that has been exiled to the US be against the war. Usually because Saddam was killing their families. You're all idiots. You have you're free speech, I have mine and you are a bunch of scum douchebags. At least support the troops.

Why is everyone against Hussain??
It has been proven that Hussain did not gas the villagers. The gassers was indeed Iran. The gas being used is not in the hands of Hussain.

Now dont get me wront, I am no way a friend of hussain - he must answer for his actions taken - no lies just the actions he took.

In the world there are 2 different type of people - those who dont like war, and those who just cant get enough.
If Bush is so correct in his thinking that this war is legal then why dont the rest of the countries in the UN back it???
Because Europe has got something against USA?? Or just because the USA didnt have 1 little bit of evidence against Iraq???

This war was started with the majority of people against it. Its being ended withcivilians once being being bombarded with ATOm bombs - (DU bombs enriched...)

Sounds like loads of you forgot how you were brought up.... When you were hit as a kid in school, u go home , tell your parents. They tell you to avoid in getting in a fight -or did they tell go beat the shit out of all the others??

America wake up.....

Wen you read this you now why. I wanted to join the human shields in Baghdad because it was direct action which had a chance of bringing the anti-war movement to the forefront of world attention. It was inspiring: the human shield volunteers were making a sacrifice for their political views - much more of a personal investment than going to a demonstration in Washington or London. It was simple - you get on the bus and you represent yourself. So that is exactly what I did on the morning of Saturday, January 25. I am a 23-year-old Jewish-American photographer living in Islington, north London. I had travelled in the Middle East before: as a student, I went to the Palestinian West Bank during the intifada. I also went to Afghanistan as a photographer for Newsweek. The human shields appealed to my anti-war stance, but by the time I had left Baghdad five weeks later my views had changed drastically. I wouldn't say that I was exactly pro-war - no, I am ambivalent - but I have a strong desire to see Saddam removed. We on the bus felt that we were sympathetic to the views of the Iraqi civilians, even though we didn't actually know any. The group was less interested in standing up for their rights than protesting against the US and UK governments. I was shocked when I first met a pro-war Iraqi in Baghdad - a taxi driver taking me back to my hotel late at night. I explained that I was American and said, as we shields always did, "Bush bad, war bad, Iraq good". He looked at me with an expression of incredulity. As he realised I was serious, he slowed down and started to speak in broken English about the evils of Saddam's regime. Until then I had only heard the President spoken of with respect, but now this guy was telling me how all of Iraq's oil money went into Saddam's pocket and that if you opposed him politically he would kill your whole family. It scared the hell out of me. First I was thinking that maybe it was the secret police trying to trick me but later I got the impression that he wanted me to help him escape. I felt so bad. I told him: "Listen, I am just a schmuck from the United States, I am not with the UN, I'm not with the CIA - I just can't help you." Of course I had read reports that Iraqis hated Saddam Hussein, but this was the real thing. Someone had explained it to me face to face. I told a few journalists who I knew. They said that this sort of thing often happened - spontaneous, emotional, and secretive outbursts imploring visitors to free them from Saddam's tyrannical Iraq. I became increasingly concerned about the way the Iraqi regime was restricting the movement of the shields, so a few days later I left Baghdad for Jordan by taxi with five others. Once over the border we felt comfortable enough to ask our driver what he felt about the regime and the threat of an aerial bombardment. "Don't you listen to Powell on Voice of America radio?" he said. "Of course the Americans don't want to bomb civilians. They want to bomb government and Saddam's palaces. We want America to bomb Saddam." We just sat, listening, our mouths open wide. Jake, one of the others, just kept saying, "Oh my God" as the driver described the horrors of the regime. Jake was so shocked at how naive he had been. We all were. It hadn't occurred to anyone that the Iraqis might actually be pro-war. The driver's most emphatic statement was: "All Iraqi people want this war." He seemed convinced that civilian casualties would be small; he had such enormous faith in the American war machine to follow through on its promises. Certainly more faith than any of us had. Perhaps the most crushing thing we learned was that most ordinary Iraqis thought Saddam Hussein had paid us to come to protest in Iraq. Although we explained that this was categorically not the case, I don't think he believed us. Later he asked me: "Really, how much did Saddam pay you to come?" It hit me on visceral and emotional levels: this was a real portrayal of Iraq life. After the first conversation, I completely rethought my view of the Iraqi situation. My understanding changed on intellectual, emotional, psychological levels. I remembered the experience of seeing Saddam's egomaniacal portraits everywhere for the past two weeks and tried to place myself in the shoes of someone who had been subjected to seeing them every day for the last 20 or so years. Last Thursday night I went to photograph the anti-war rally in Parliament Square. Thousands of people were shouting "No war" but without thinking about the implications for Iraqis. Some of them were drinking, dancing to Samba music and sparring with the police. It was as if the protesters were talking about a different country where the ruling government is perfectly acceptable. It really upset me. Anyone with half a brain must see that Saddam has to be taken out. It is extraordinarily ironic that the anti-war protesters are marching to defend a government which stops its people exercising that freedom.

So the makers and holders of this banner support the actions of the US soldier in Kuwait who threw a grenade into a tent, killing Christopher Seifert (27 years old) and injuring 15 others?

The photo of the sign saying "shoot thier officer" is insightful. I now am quite certain that the people participating on these "peace" demonstrations are either just missfits or anarchists. In either case, they're taking the very low road expressing their views.

Also, what's the deal with the masks? Not sure enough in your cause to show your face?! More interesting insight into the thought process of the "peace" demonstrators.

Peace activists calling for the death of our troops (like the one Mr. Allah-ho-Akhbar killed in this weekend's "fragging"), and garden variety irrational loathing of the Jewish State with capitalized invocation of Hitler no less. You Indymedia goons are constantly showing why your are so far outside of the mainstream. Normal Americans don't share your hate for our fighting men and women, we don't share your consuming anti-Semitism, and we don't share your irrationality or lack of decent hygiene.

You are a pox on the human race. You ought to pull a Rachel Corrie and go dive under an IDF bulldozer.

Peace activists calling for the death of our troops (like the one Mr. Allah-ho-Akhbar killed in this weekend's "fragging"), and garden variety irrational loathing of the Jewish State with capitalized invocation of Hitler no less. You Indymedia goons are constantly showing why your are so far outside of the mainstream. Normal Americans don't share your hate for our fighting men and women, we don't share your consuming anti-Semitism, and we don't share your irrationality or lack of decent hygiene.

You are a pox on the human race. You ought to pull a Rachel Corrie and go dive under an IDF bulldozer.

Peace activists calling for the death of our troops (like the one Mr. Allah-ho-Akhbar killed in this weekend's "fragging"), and garden variety irrational loathing of the Jewish State with capitalized invocation of Hitler no less. You Indymedia goons are constantly showing why your are so far outside of the mainstream. Normal Americans don't share your hate for our fighting men and women, we don't share your consuming anti-Semitism, and we don't share your irrationality or lack of decent hygiene.

You are a pox on the human race. You ought to pull a Rachel Corrie and go dive under an IDF bulldozer.

What a sick, demonic display. No wonder the anti-war protests failed, failed, failed, and failed again . . .miserably. These folks are worse than the Christian fundamentalists they mock.

I appreciate seeing the pictures of protesters in SF. If it weren't for free speech, we'd be in a worse mess now.

I have to half-agree with Senator Jim Moran, who pointed out that if the US were less interested in Israeli issues and oil (my input), we wouldn't be fighting this war. War is stupid. And so are most fundamentalists whom I've met, in over 50 countries now.

Peace,

John

I appreciate seeing the pictures of protesters in SF. If it weren't for free speech, we'd be in a worse mess now.

I have to half-agree with Senator Jim Moran, who pointed out that if the US were less interested in Israeli issues and oil (my input), we wouldn't be fighting this war. War is stupid. And so are most fundamentalists whom I've met, in over 50 countries now.

Peace,

John

I only have one thing to say about the protest in SF..........."BRAVO"....."BRAVO".........

All you protesters who wear your masks as you protest indicate that you are embarassed to be acknowledged along with your message and or actions. You should be ashamed to be associated with the messages that you display and ashamed that you apparently have no regards for the Iraqi people who want Saddam out of power. Your ideas of finding another way of ousting Saddam in rediculous at best, force is the only thing he understands. You should all be tried and convicted of sedition.

What a horrible photo and and even worse attitude ... I am ashamed that you and I live in the same country and both call ourselves Americans. Why did I serve 20 years in the military for people such as you?

You compare yourselves in editorials to Martin Luther King. But he was no thug. He did not assault people. He did not scream at people driving to work. He did not destroy and litter the streets he protested in.

But you know this already. I have posted these comments before. I have seen them posted, and then I have seen them removed.

It appears that your approach to free comment, to open mindedness, to open discussion, rivals that of Saddam.

What a bunch of disgusting losers. Thank god I don't live in San Francisco

I can respect someone for speaking out on an issue they feel important.

I can't respect someone who will not stand behind what they say. They protest in the name of peace and urge soldiers to kill their officers? Not the kind of peace I want nor the kind of people I would share it with. Now we know why they hide their faces.

you sick fucks.

Bring that banner to Pittsburgh so I can kick your fucking ass.

It is interesting to see the "peace movement" advocates murder when it suits their needs. Your credibility & hippocracy have been exposed by signs like this. Good luck getting anyone to join your cause.

I applaude your article. You allowed your opinion to be "changed" based upon real life experiences. So many persons on either side, will not look at the opposite side of their argument. Therefore, the stance that they took in the very beginning, is all they will ever know.

It's nice to see that it's a nice day in San Francisco, my favorite city, and that the winds of freedom still blow there. But, advocating the murder of military officers by our troops, is beneath the lowest and the worst among us. I served as an officer for nearly 30 years, my father as an enlisted soldier and officer for 38 years, and my brother for 191/2 years (he died on active service in 2001). We have commanded soldiers and been commanded by officers from across this country, from every race, from many religions, and with many political viewpoints. We have trained and been trained to respect our cherished freedoms and the human rights of our adversaries. Why? Because we're working-class Americans, just like our soldiers. These masked scum, like the KKK, need not urge our soldiers to murder; they can shed their cowardice at any time. I'm right here, and I won't let our troops interfere.

It's nice to see that it's a nice day in San Francisco, my favorite city, and that the winds of freedom still blow there. But, advocating the murder of military officers by our troops, is beneath the lowest and the worst among us. I served as an officer for nearly 30 years, my father as an enlisted soldier and officer for 38 years, and my brother for 191/2 years (he died on active service in 2001). We have commanded soldiers and been commanded by officers from across this country, from every race, from many religions, and with many political viewpoints. We have trained and been trained to respect our cherished freedoms and the human rights of our adversaries. Why? Because we're working-class Americans, just like our soldiers. These masked scum, like the KKK, need not urge our soldiers to murder; they can shed their cowardice at any time. I'm right here, and I won't let our troops interfere.

It's nice to see that it's a nice day in San Francisco, my favorite city, and that the winds of freedom still blow there. But, advocating the murder of military officers by our troops, is beneath the lowest and the worst among us. I served as an officer for nearly 30 years, my father as an enlisted soldier and officer for 38 years, and my brother for 191/2 years (he died on active service in 2001). We have commanded soldiers and been commanded by officers from across this country, from every race, from many religions, and with many political viewpoints. We have trained and been trained to respect our cherished freedoms and the human rights of our adversaries. Why? Because we're working-class Americans, just like our soldiers. These masked scum, like the KKK, need not urge our soldiers to murder; they can shed their cowardice at any time. I'm right here, and I won't let our troops interfere.

Still not a wise choice for a banner.

"But if you are ferocious in battle, remember to be magnanimous in victory. It is a big step to take another human life. It is not to be done lightly. I know of men who have taken life needlessly in other conflicts. I can assure you they live with the mark of Cain upon them. If someone surrenders to you, then remember they have that right in international law and ensure that one day they can go home to their family. The ones who wish to fight, well, we aim to please. If you harm the regiment or its history by over-enthusiasm in killing or in cowardice, know it is your family who will suffer . . . .
We go to liberate, not to conquer. We will not fly our flags in their country. ... Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood and the birthplace of Abraham. Tread lightly there."
LT. Col Tim Collins, 1st Bn, Royal Irish Regt.

"You will see things that no man could pay to see and you will have to go a long way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the Iraqis," he told his troops. "You will be embarrassed by their hospitality even though they have nothing."
Few talk of the "mark of Cain" and of respect for a people who live in "the birthplace of Abraham." But Collins is from Belfast, and most of his men are from Northern Ireland, where strong oratory and the use of strong historical and biblical images are common.
Again-this sort of man takes a lot of killing.

Shoot the officers? Expressing a little violence, are we? What the hell do you people stand for?

I would like to officially invite you to Cincinnati, and bring that banner.

In fact I dare you.

You protesters did a great job this last week. Now not only the rest of the Country thinks your idiots, the people who live in San Francisco do too.. The media now sees you for what you really are, and the police actually like you (they made a lot of easy money off you).

WTF? cant you guys do anything right?...LOL>>>LOL>>LOL

Pretty Disgusting.

My father is stationed at Ft Campbell... home of the 101st and the ignorant ass that fragged his command tents. I am all about freedom of speech... blah blah blah. Those soldiers... several of my friends... are doing their jobs. They know the sacrifice that is war... those of you protesting go to the comfort of your homes at the end of the day... they don't. Even if you don't support the war... support the troops. These young men and women don't have a choice, they don't get to pick and choose their battles. So continue on with your protests if it makes you feel good... but hiding behind masks holding signs promoting fratricide isn't anything to be proud of.

throw down their arms, and embrace each other as the comrades they are.

While I find the "shoot their officers" banner to be vicious, out-of-place, and ill-conceived, I find the comments here about it to be equally alarming. The generalizations of "that's what you people are like" is absurd. Out of the hundreds of signs I've seen among the millions who have carried them, that's the only one like this I've seen. The overwhelming message of the protests is peace and nonviolence--the people against the war do not want to see our military people die any more than they want to see Iraqis die. I also find it alarming that people visiting this site seem to think that indymedia endorses the banner--this site is reporting and showing images. They didn't make the banner, guys, and they're not saying they condone it. If they showed only noncontroversial images--ones that failed to provoke even a peace advocate such as myself, wouldn't they then be accused of being "that slanted, liberal media"?

As for why people covered their faces, I've been told by SF friends that they've been torn about this question, for they live in fear of some sort of retaliation. I'm not talking retaliation by the average citizen, although there are certainly a lot of "I'll kick your ass" remarks here by average citizenry. No, they're afraid of retaliation of an official sort. And to me, this is terribly sad and deeply ironic. We're supposedly bringing freedom to Iraq, and yet our own citizens live in fear of exercising their constitutional rights. Are we to be proud of our constitutional freedoms and yet never use them? That seems to be the message. Take a look at what has happened domestically under John Ashcroft since September of 2001, and remember what protecting the American way of life is really about. If we want it so much for others, we'd best be sure first that we are also keeping it for ourselves.

To the Fuckwit who had the sign:
"We support our troops when they shoot their officers"
Good thing your wearing a skimask as it's the only thing that will hold your skull together after I'm finished with you .
You Fucktard

To the Fuckwit who had the sign:
"We support our troops when they shoot their officers"
Good thing your wearing a skimask as it's the only thing that will hold your skull together after I'm finished with you .
You Fucktard

Other than fostering revolution for revolution's sake, I am not sure what these protesters are advocating in this sign. If they are protesting the war because it is wrong, why would they wish to perpetuate the violence?

Then again, perhaps they just didn't think through what they were saying. So much for their attempt at showing how much smarter their course of action would be....

Reasonable people may differ on important issues, but that difference in thought does not necessarily make the other evil. However, taunts like the one on the sign reading, "We support our troops if they shoot their officers," are not harmless and they do cause pain and divisiveness. I knew and worked with CPT Chris Seifert, who happened to be murdered by that soldier who threw grenades into tents of the officers and soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division in Iraq. He was a good, honest, hardworking man who would never have put his life on the line for an immoral cause. We may have been soldiers, but we were not automatons--we did have principled stands.

I happen to strongly believe that peace is not the answer for the Iraqi people and it is indisputable that any attempt at 'self-determination' by the Iraqi people will lead to a violent death at the hands the Baathist regime--so what good is 'peace' for them? What recourse do they have other than the violent removal of their persecutors. I agree that peace should be our long-term goal, and that day shall arrive the instant the world is rid of dictatorships and totalitarian regimes. However, the world cannot exist halve slave and halve free and simultaneously demand that there be peace.

As Americans we are bound by a basic philosophical assumption that we have a natural right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Moreover, we are protected from tyranny by the very fact other Americans share this same basic philosophy, and to assume otherwise only erodes the ties that bind us together. This type of cynicism leads only to alienation from your own country and once you are isolated from your own homeland how can you expect others to hear your voice? If the level of alienation reaches this fervent level, we won't even be speaking the same language and there will no longer be hope for unity and understanding.

One can still express dissent over the war, that's what America is all about--no citizen has been executed or sent to a concentration camp for their dissent. However, after the war we will still be neighbors, so lets not make it impossible for us to be brothers and sisters later.


Pat Wallis

RE: Troops (Banner)
The left is in it's gurgling death throes as the true nature of it's malignant culture is revealed . The discredited philosophy of Marxism no longer has any brains behind the organization as the leadership has been given to drug damaged boomers who dont know what the fuck is going on.

Bring your fraging poster to D.C. and keep your mask on.... you'll need it as a bandage.

Your attitude is what makes Americans so darn popular in the world! And if it wasn't for Canada, your country would lose its major supplier of oil. After Paul Celucci (the US ambassador to Canada) yesterday hinted at economic consequences for Canada's lack of support - as a Canadian, I say, turn off the taps and see how the States gets along without our resources.

The US is turning itself into an outlaw, barbarian state thanks to Bush's temper tantrums. As he plunges your country into economic depression, I hope you don't get one red cent out of the rest of the world to rebuild the lives and the infrastructure you are destroying overseas.

Enjoy your empire, you casears of destruction.

Lovely use of exclamation points!!!!!!!!!

You don't feel strongly, do you???????

The US is the agrressor and you're blaming Iraq? Where is the evidence of links to al-Qaeda? None. Where is the evidence of sponsorship of terrorism? None. Where is the evidence of weapons of mass destrcution? None. Face it. This is about naked pursuit of political power in the region, and control over the second largest supplier of oil. I can't believe you Americans are so blind, so easily pursuaded by your corporate-sponsored propaganda.

No wonder the world has grown to despise your international bullying and barabrity. Amazing how quickly the goodwill after 9/11 has evaporated.

Enjoy your empire.

A Canadian

To exercise ones right of free speech in defense of noble principle is a noble thing.

Peace is a noble principle.

Shooting one's officer is not a noble principle.

So in other words, all that's wrong with the sign about shooting officers is that its not "TACTFUL"???? That it gives your opponents ammo? NOT that its WRONG? NOT that its CRIMINAL to REVEL in MURDER?

The people who made and paraded that sign are morally bankrupt and without any value.
The people who say the only thing WRONG with it is a matter of tactics and strategy, not its CONTENT, are worse by 100fold. Hypocrits, hardly for "peace" except the peace of the death of their enemies. Shills for those who LIKE the murder of others, and pals of the torturers, rapists, and murderers on the payroll of Sadaam and his sons, who'd be marching with that sign if they could.

http://www.BigBoots.US has the answer. You people don't even know the question.

Disgusting--and a WORSE crime that you DARE stain the memory of honest anti-war protests of the 1960's with your bullshit. We knew better. Too bad you don't...or wont.

Turn off the taps, eh? Yes, some of us realize that the U.S. purchases it's largest percentage of oil from Canada (and none from Iraq -- so much for that blood for oil shit). But here's the trick -- Oil is what we grownups call a "fungible commodity". So Canada quits selling oil to the good ol' U.S. of A. What are they gonna do with it now? Drink it? No! They're gonna sell it on the open market, which will slightly depress global prices overall. Then, the remarketer will give it a slight markup and sell it to U.S. companies at about the same price we'd have given the Canukiaks if they'd sold it to us directly. U.S. goes on with life as usual, Soviet Canuckistan takes it in the shorts on the sale price of their oil. 'Nuff said...

This is why "planned economies" never succeed in the end, and market economies ALWAYS ultimately succeed. Another good example is the Canadian "Health Care" System, but we'll save that object lesson for later.

As a officer in the United States Marine Corps I cannot even begin to express the disgust at the picture of the "shoot officers" banner. You should be ashamed, but I know that you lack the moral fortitude to be so inclined. Someday you will understand what this is all truly about....it is quite clear you are unable to read!

I agree that banners like "we support troops if they shoot their commanding officers" is disgraceful, hypocritical, and completely uncalled for. there are indeed some protestors who are missing the point of the peace movement. but keep in mind anti-war protestors cannot be held responsible for the actions of ignorant/hostile protestors, just as the soldiers with their heart in the right place cannot do anything about the war-mongering bush adminstration or the few crazy soldiers that really do enjoy shooting people. I am against the war, but I certainly don't want our soldiers to die anymore than I want Iraqui civilians to. It is all too easy for someone who isn't in the military to sit and judge those who are- I get the impression lots of them were 18 y/os who joined b4 the war started thinking they'd earn money for college and never go off to war. most soldiers are probably concerned not only with the lives of americans but also welfare of iraqui people. However, supporting US troops does not mean anyone should feel obligated to support a war they don't believe in.

I am against the war because I don't think Bush is very concerned with terrorist threat or the lives of Iraquis, but mostly about getting oil. the war also distracts americans from the budget deficit created by his tax cuts, even while the wars adds to it. btw, bush has been taking from welfare programs, including Veteran's benefits. The media has lots of us convinced that protesting the war is going against our troops, it is not. the media says all the protestors are uneducated and will protest anything. with the exception of the fools in the pictures they are not. the media you must understand is owned by the very companies that stand to gain $ from the war. Iraqui people don't like Hussein, but that doesn't mean they want us blowing up their home either. If you read british, german, or iraqui newspapers you will find out that many iraqui civilians think americans are just their to take over and they are afraid and some have even been shot at by US soldiers.

we also have to own up to the fact that much of the Iraqui people's suffering is due to past american actions. economic sanctions after the gulf war prevented them from getting food. there have been a lot of short US attacks on Iraq since the gulf war. not only by bush sr., but a few by clinton, too. and george w bush wasn't willing to give peace a chance. iraq agreed to destroy missiles and that wasn't good enough. the un disagreed bush didn't care. bush set an ultimatum Hussein couldn't have met if he wanted to, because bush wants this war. There is no proof Iraq is connected with 9/11. If Hussein has "weapons of mass destruction" they were probably sold to him by america. How is attacking an already ravaged country going to help the people? bush has failed to even deliver the huminatarian aid he promised them in his speech. bush doesn't care about anything but his money. and his approval rating is still high because the media has convinced many of us that going against bush is treason. its not. neither is protesting the war. for all we know, this protestor with his "support troops who shoot their commanding officers" may have actually been hired by our government. just consider it. it would make everyone think badly about protestors. but real or not, he is not a reflection of all protestors. most of us love americans soldiers/ civilians. war should only be a last resort and bush hasn't given peaceful diplomacy a chance. support our troops not the war.

Thanks for this -- sanest thing I've seen here yet. Chris spent his life doing good, he's still with us.

-------

Mr.
by Pat Wallis Wednesday March 26, 2003 at 10:18 AM
p.wallis [at] attbi.com 5108729041

Reasonable people may differ on important issues, but that difference in thought does not necessarily make the other evil. However, taunts like the one on the sign reading, "We support our troops if they shoot their officers," are not harmless and they do cause pain and divisiveness. I knew and worked with CPT Chris Seifert, who happened to be murdered by that soldier who threw grenades into tents of the officers and soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division in Iraq. He was a good, honest, hardworking man who would never have put his life on the line for an immoral cause. We may have been soldiers, but we were not automatons--we did have principled stands.

I happen to strongly believe that peace is not the answer for the Iraqi people and it is indisputable that any attempt at 'self-determination' by the Iraqi people will lead to a violent death at the hands the Baathist regime--so what good is 'peace' for them? What recourse do they have other than the violent removal of their persecutors. I agree that peace should be our long-term goal, and that day shall arrive the instant the world is rid of dictatorships and totalitarian regimes. However, the world cannot exist halve slave and halve free and simultaneously demand that there be peace.

As Americans we are bound by a basic philosophical assumption that we have a natural right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Moreover, we are protected from tyranny by the very fact other Americans share this same basic philosophy, and to assume otherwise only erodes the ties that bind us together. This type of cynicism leads only to alienation from your own country and once you are isolated from your own homeland how can you expect others to hear your voice? If the level of alienation reaches this fervent level, we won't even be speaking the same language and there will no longer be hope for unity and understanding.

One can still express dissent over the war, that's what America is all about--no citizen has been executed or sent to a concentration camp for their dissent. However, after the war we will still be neighbors, so lets not make it impossible for us to be brothers and sisters later.

---------

Hey Mr. - Here's another thought. Canuckistan nationalizes it's oil industry so that the entire population benefits from the riches of the resource rather than the usual handful of profiteers who cash in off the backs of working people. They continue selling this fungible substance for the pleasure of the gluttonous energy sluts of the military complex as they continue their ravenous capitalist ambitions, mass productions and the making of a few thousand more billionaires. Flush, yet sickened psychologically, emotionally and spiritually by their lust for "stuff", and awash in the roadkill of the bottom 80 percentile, the Canuckistanis watch with sadness as the Empire collapses under the weight it's capital obesity - existentially exhausted, morally bankrupt and huddling like pack dogs over the spoils. Fortunately, the Canuckistanis, used wisely their oil revenues to provide universal education, health care and sustainable economic development initiatives for the entire populous. This, in turn, allowed them to become much more highly evolved in their pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. Seeing the the Empire now so frightened and alone in the world, the Canuckistanis take pity on the sorrowful state of their brothers and sisters of the USA. From a kinder and gentler place, the Canuckistanis offer compassion to the fallen Empire - helping them finally understand the true meaning of life, liberty and happiness that is never fully satisfied by delusion, attachement ot Hollywood.

More of the same sentiment at Columbia Univeristy

I HAVE SERVED ALL MY LIFE AS A PEACE KEEPER...BEEN SHOT, STABED RUN UP RUN ON RUN OVER AND BLOWN UP AT A COURT ORDERED EVICTION. SERVED IN VIET-NAM CAME HOME AND WAS SPIT ON. WENT ON TO SPEND MY LIFE PROTECTING PEOPLE FROM CRIMINALS ..........YOUR '' WE SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WHEN THEY SHOOT THEIR OFFICERS '' REMARK SHOULD EARN YOU A SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL RESERVED FOR COWARDS. YOU DO NOT LIVE IN AMERICA..... A LITTLE OF IT LIVES IN EACH OF US......WELL , PRESENT COMPANY OF COURSE EXCLUDED. WHEN YOU GET OLDER , YOU MIGHT NEED EVEN MORE DRUGS TO DULL WHAT GROWING REGRETS MAY EMERGE. YOU ARE TRUELY A GRABASTIC WASTE OF PROTOPLASMA.

This is a great disrespect for what our country stands for , and for the great men and women through the decades who are willing to fight for the right to dissent. I have wondered about our next generation, and what will happen when we are gone. I know now because of the caliber of men and women who believe in our country and will work within the system to make needed changes , it will not be turned over to the cowards on the streets. To all our troops, to all our leaders...God bless you and keep you all, and thank you for making our country and world a safer place,

All of you Patriotic American fascists on this site who are crying and whining about "supporting the troops" should be sent back to hell where you and your evil American Empire were spawned.

Your troops are nothing more than hired thugs, mercenary and killers who try to masquerade as Humanitarians and Liberators as all Western Coloniaists have .

All of your propaganada rhetoric and staged Photo-ops hailings Iraqis 'welcoming' your Imperialist troops as liberators are being ripped to shreds by the ferocious resistance that your Evil troops are facing now from the Iraqi people.

No amount of your spoon-fed Propangada and in-bed Media spin doctors can hide this truth. Every one of you fascist Mainstream cocksuckers spewing your lies about America stands for "freedom and democracy" are morally and politically equivalent to the Good Germans who "supported the troops" of Nazi Germany.

Your Stormtroopers don't deserve to be supported. They deserved to be hunted down as the War Criminals which they. The recent incident of Fragging against your Imperialist Stormtroopers was fully deserved--and won't be the last by any means.

All these fascistic American patriots who support the troops are the essence of evil, and are a complete and utter waste of skin that deserved to be burned with the flag which you wave and sent back to your Judeo Christian Hell.

Let there be a Million Mogadishus. A million Jerusalems. And a Million Lebanons coming for you Whitebread asses now and forever.

Please do not get me wrong I have absolutely no support for the illegal war being waged in Iraq, but your comments asking for the proof of Saddam's backing terrorism can be found in the cheques being given to the families of suicide bombers. Is that answer unsatisfactory because it's not directly related to your own safety? And to those who shout that it's not the politicians children being sent to war, did their children enlist? If not, then they are not required to send them. Today's military is volunteer. Unless there are people enlisting that have no understanding of military or history, they enlisted knowing that they could be sent to war, it is part and parcel of being a soldier. I am a Canadian, my brother is an American and an American soldier to boot. Did he knowingly join the military, being of sound mind and body and enter into a contract that may require him to enter into military conflict? Absolutely. Do I believe he should go to Iraq? Do I believe his life is worth wasting in the name of Capitalist America's insatiable greed? Absolutley not. But do not vilify a solidier for being proud in the same breath you applaud a man for being a murderer. I believe that the voice of oppsition must be heard, I truly do. It is unfortunate that the people who show such disgust with the mainstream media, ( I use that term loosely) discredit themselves with uninformed arguements, their own personal extremist rhetoric and shameful displays of uneducated vulgarity as shown with this horrific banner. If you are protesting war for peace, your message is lost in your own need for the media attention you so despise.

I certainly supported Hitler's troops when they tried (or succeeded) killing their officers to stop brutality and destruction.

But then, these are not my troops.

Cut off the head and the feet don't move :P

People complain about the banner pic - in fact, it becomes a raison d'etre for the thread - they call on it to be removed from the site. It is removed, then the self-same people repost it so they can thump their tubs again. Say wha?

The picture of "1_shoot_officers" is og terrorist detainees being brought to Cuba to be held. I don't see why anyone should have a problem with these people trained to kill us being detained like that.

Gee, I was under the impression that China was part communist, part capitalist. Thanks for the "lesson."

Let them continue to display banners with idiotic messages as shown above. It tells the world how shallow their ideals really are and, how self serving their motives continue to be. The message being put forth here is not for peace. The message is one of intolerance and violence.

anti-imperialism.

How does any of that solve the problem of overproduction?

I hope you fucking morons DIE! Jesus Fucking Christ guys why do you think this country is free? Because the US Forces fought people like Saddam, not from bitching and moaning about how we should stand up for others.

"NO ONE IS FREE WHEN OTHERS ARE OPRESSED!"

You remove a photo that shows 'peace' protesters as what they are, scum but then to cover it up you remove the picture leaving the title and you post a picture of a group of US soldiers with a prisoner which is hardly likely to be 'from the first half of the breakaway march (before the mass arrests)'.

Now that's just inept but what crowns this exercise is Lefty stupidity is that a poster called 'Frag' (amongst others) reposts the photo with the most hateful rant I've ever seen.

And you wonder why people see you are racist scum and Google acted like it did.

I can't believe you are the same genes let alone species as me.

This used to be a photo of a banner from a march protest in sanfran that read, "We Support Our Troops When They Shoot Their Officers".

Indymedia decided to revise the issue. Here's so you know.

Funny how all the fascists here cry and whine about the "hypocrisy" of the "peace movement" (of which the makers of that banner are not a part, they're part of the anarchist and anti-imperialist movements) when people carry a banner reading "we support our troops when they shoot their officers."

These enraged responses all assume that they understand why the folks pictured carry that banner, but obviously avoid understanding.

These are americans who refuse to support the empire, and choose to fight fascism.

Fighting fascism in the USA might take violence. This is a point that one might assume is understood by all the veterans and pro-war responses posted here. You are all advocates of violence, so long as it happens in Iraq.

If you have the "courage" to advocate bombs raining on cities on the other side of the planet, killing defenseless children, don't come crying when some of the people resisting your warmongering, fascist empire-building fight back, or voice their support for those who fight back.

If you choose the side of empire, don't cry to me when others choose the side of the victims of your empire.

If the Iraqis love american troops so much, why are they still killing them? Saddam is gone.

Lovely how all these people are so outraged about this banner and its supposed "hypocrisy," but not about all their threats to smash the heads in, throw under a bulldozer, beat the shit out of, and kill the people who carried that banner. Not to mention the repeated calls for their suicide and eternal burning in hell (what a superstitious, backward, ignorant group).

So much for your "nonviolence." Oh, right, you never claimed to be nonviolent. Neither did the people carrying that banner. Thus, no hypocrisy, just opposition. The folks with this banner are anti-fascists, and you rabid right-wing militarists are fascists.

I would have supported the anti-Nazi resistance in Poland, France, Greece, or Germany. It would be inconsistent to abandon the anti-fascist struggle in 2003 in the USA.

One of those banner carriers was wearing a mask, the other wasn't - so enough with the "masks = invalid" bullshit... By the way, what about the boston tea party? What about your beloved fascist SWAT team member who wears a mask, or your beloved special forces in your imperialist military? They're all masked.

The only good fascist is a dead one.

To review the logic of your nationalist bloodthirst:

1. Murdering people in a thrid world country at the command of the US government is heroic.

2. Murdering the officers coordinating this mass murder is vile and evil.

3. Murdering the dictator who committed mass murder with your weapons and support (the USA armed and supported Saddam throughout his worst atrocities) is necessary to liberate a people, and heroic.

4. Support of people fighting back against your invading army in their own country is vile and evil.

5. Murdering those who hold signs in support of murdering the officers in charge of your invasion and mass murder is heroic, because those people are voicing an evil opinion.

6. War is Peace.

7. Ignorance is Strength.

8. Freedom is Slavery.

9. 2 + 2 = 5

10. Bush is President.

if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking.

I do not understand. The US is so bad, so evil, so (fill in derogatory blank here) yet the internet was developed there, the freedom of speech you have to develop and host sites like Indymeda.

Why dont we have that?

Do the secret police ever visit you? Kill your family? Torture you? Rape your wifes in front of you?

Oh, how evil the US is. I hope to one day move to that evil place from here and become evil myself.

Freedom to express yourselfs is not evil.

If America and the Bush administration is as bad as you make it out to be...then why are you not dead yet?

if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking.

"best thing to do is to encourage Samuel"

We are dead.

you liberal scum are full of it when it comes to the zionist stuff.

first of all "palestine" comes from a greek word, meaning divider. It was used for a group of nomads from the Aegean Sea who raided the israel coast. The romans used it for israel to further humiliate the jews, who had lost the rebellion in 77ad.

there have always been jewish communities in israel, although the area had been near uninhabited until it became palestine under the british forces after they conquered the ottoman empire. british immigration policies then allowed a swarm of arabs in, while keeping jews out until ben gurions arrival in 1948.

when 1948 came, arabs fled from palestine even though gurion promised those who stayed would recieve israeli citizenship. those who stayed, did. the ones who fled to neigboring countries were quickly rounded up and put in refugee camps.

this is the history of the "palestinian state." i cant force you to change your mind, but i can give you the facts.

kyoto comes from a greek word meaning "half baked meatball sandwich." You take a sprinkling of bad history, add in some stale zionist apologetics, and cover it all with a thick layer of foul right wing rhetoric--and voila! You've got a simplistic apology for Israeli apartheid. Ready to serve in minutes!

Sounds good. Sure beats "crow".

chafe, you ask, "Do the secret police ever visit you? ... Torture you?" In fact, they have done both to me for my political activities. Just this last weekend I was awakened at 3am by police asking about a conference I was about to protest, on the property of someone I was the guest of, without a warrant. I was beaten in jail a few years ago, twice, after being arrested for speech and assembly. They have done worse to others.

Joachim, you ask, "If America and the Bush administration is as bad as you make it out to be...then why are you not dead yet?"

I don't make America out to be bad. I love this country. I despise fascism, and I am disgusted by the wave of it sweeping this country. America as a whole is not fascist, but the government, corporations, and their empire are herding the people of this country down that path. It is sickening. If I didn't love America, I would not care so much about the direction it is headed, and I would move to a country with greater freedom, free health care, a shorter work week, higher average wages, lower or no homelessness and starvation... somewhere like Sweden or France. Instead, I stay here and try to improve conditions precisely because I care about it.

As for why I am not dead yet, it is because I have not become enough of a threat to the system to kill. Look at Fred Hampton, the MOVE family, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King Jr., Ana Mae Aquash, George Jackson, Judi Bari, and countless other dissidents who have been killed in the US in recent decades. Many were killed directly by the police with the assistance of the FBI (like Hampton and MOVE), while others were "targeted for neutralizations" by the FBI and just happened to be shot or bombed under highly suspicious circumstances (like King, X, and Bari).

It is obvious that you have no cle what true fascism is. It is deplorable that you compare our form of government to another who was responsible for bringing the entire world to war and killing people in the face of a having a pure race. Though it is unfortunate that going to war will cause some casualties of innocent civilians, the same happens in all wars, but look what the alternate would be. Saddam still in power and ruling his country by fear by repressing and killing those people he does not see fit to live as well as offerering haven to WMD and terrorists (hmmm - 1939 Germany). The only way freedom is gained is fighting for it, not rolling over for the enemy. It is not the reporter or the demonstrator that gives us freedom of speech, but the 1,005,000 fallen soldiers' blood.

>Saddam still in power and ruling his country by fear by repressing and killing those people he does not see fit to live

So what? No threat to us = none of our business.


>as well as offerering haven to WMD and terrorists

These were lies, since disproven. We went to war over lies, just like we did in Viet Nam over the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, just like Germany did when Hitler told them that Poland had invaded Germany. Lies, all lies.

Now we’re stuck to the mother of tar babies, and every day that goes by, more people hate us. We’re less safe now, not more.

your whole site is a joke ... your whole ASSEMBLY is complete ignorance fueled by 60's hippie Cowards .. that couldnt handle RESPONSABILITY ... ever hear of Dieing?well if it was up to our enemies YOU, yes you ENEMY LOVING bastages would be dead already. You spit in the face of the men that earn your freedom ... you make me sick ... open your eyes .... damn kids so weak you believe everything your told ... i earned your freedom ... give us the respect of acting american ... or do us a favor ... go hardcore and torch yourselves as the buddists did in nam, MAN YOU LOVE THE ONES THAT WOULD OBLIVERATE YOU ... OR YOU JUST DONT WANT WAR ... in that case COWARDS go to Yemen,Pakistan,Philliphines,or iran ... anywhere you think the ENEMY is with you ... well watch you beheading video too!!

That includes the right to free speech. Even for angry thugs like yourself. So make sure you get the most of you GI loan and finish your education. You could obviously use it.

Yeah, liberals are pussies, they would just run off to Canada if America came under attack. That's why they outnumber us now, their seed keep multiplying while our boys are out dying for our country. BUSH FOR 4 MORE YEARS!!!! CAN'T WAIT!

that you would like to um... you know...

i see this picture but this not represent the truth in iraq .iwant to ask every one (one of them the leader of war Bush)what do you think about some one every body in his familly killed by american soldiers?did you think he will smile with your soldiers ?
american make a big mistake when saddam fall they imagine that iraqi people will be like slaves?no Mr.Bush you are wrong ,we are not fighting with saddam because he make iraqi like slave to his familly.
i want to advice (Mr.Bush):
first you can kill thousands of men,women,children but you cannot kill all iraqi.
second if you want peace in iraq you must depend on onest men not those come with you when usa army enter iraq because iraqi people dont give ane respect to them.
peace upon to any one follow the peace way.

How many of your ancestors fought for American freedom? How would they feel about you now? Why do you hide your proud faces?

SUPPORT OUR STORMTROOPERS AND MERCENARIES

BE A GOOD GERMAN LIKE GEORGE BUSH'S GRANDFATHER, PRESCOTT, WHOSE BANK FINANCED HITLER'S RISE TO POWER.

IT'S ADMITTEDLY A SMALL THING THAT THIS MONEY WAS USED TO KILL 6 MILLION JEWS.

NEVER MIND THAT THE EVIL LEFTIST, FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT, SHUT THE BANK DOWN AND CONFISCATED ITS ASSETS.

NEVER MIND THAT RONALD REAGAN'S FATHER COULD NOT HAVE SURVIVED THE DEPRESSION AND FED HIS FASCIST SON RONNIE WITHOUT THE ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS OF FDR.

SUPPORT OUR STORM TROOPERS

SUPPORT OUR MERCENARIES

SUPPORT OUR SADISTIC, MASS MURDERING AND TORTURING EVANGILICAL LOONEY GEORGE BUSH WHO TALKS TO GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is quite ironic that the lunatic left (NOTE the distinction, not all liberals) is so afraid of fascism in a country that lets indymedia post? You have the balls to think the first picture would fly in a dictatorship? Tiananmen square anyone?
CARL ROVE WAS RIGHT, you are the gift that keeps on giving. Thanks guys, for deflecting the resonable centrists who could have tipped this election.




FUCK! YOU MADE US LOSE KERRY DAMNIT, STOP THIS SHIT!
....Enough of my frustrations...

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Where were you during the years and years of protest against the Vnam mistake? Good gracious this mistake is the result of either entirely poor intelligence, Or a contrivance of those erroneous reports. To protest is a patriotic duty when the Government is 'doing wrong.' It took 30+ years for me to change my mind about Vnam; this time it has not taken as long.

those who write only in upper case letters are interested only in shouting at the rest of us. ignore such cretins!