Publish to Newswire
Add an EventFrom the Open-Publishing Calendar
From the Open-Publishing Newswire
Indybay Feature
BREAKAWAY MARCH – MARCH 15
.
Their war draws closer. Media pundits gloat, oil companies await in eager anticipation, politicians on all sides trample over each other to use the war for their own ends. But resistance is growing too. Millions or people, in hundreds of cities across the world are taking to the streets.
From here there are many ways we can go. We can fall into the spectacle of respectable protest, where we blindly follow the bureaucrats on the left. We can bear witness to atrocities without doing anything to directly stop them, where make urgent pleas to our governments and exploiters to stop what. Or we can push things further. We can organize ourselves, take initiative, be creative, take militant action. This could be the beginning of a movement that could cause enough trouble for the American empire, that it can’t expand by killing people. This could be the beginning of something much better than the current global capitalist nightmare.
We will start a breakaway march, near the end of the larger demonstration--(exact time and place to be announced). Look for the big black flags.
For more information, contact antiwaraction [at] ziplip.com
From here there are many ways we can go. We can fall into the spectacle of respectable protest, where we blindly follow the bureaucrats on the left. We can bear witness to atrocities without doing anything to directly stop them, where make urgent pleas to our governments and exploiters to stop what. Or we can push things further. We can organize ourselves, take initiative, be creative, take militant action. This could be the beginning of a movement that could cause enough trouble for the American empire, that it can’t expand by killing people. This could be the beginning of something much better than the current global capitalist nightmare.
We will start a breakaway march, near the end of the larger demonstration--(exact time and place to be announced). Look for the big black flags.
For more information, contact antiwaraction [at] ziplip.com
Add Your Comments
Comments
(Hide Comments)
If you're going on the breakaway march, come in black and come prepared!
See: http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/03/1581445.php
See: http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/03/1581445.php
Is there an unpermitted march with some clear guidelines for action? E.g. yes or no property destruction, no throwing things at cops or horses, etc?
First of all watch out for undercover police. Hopefully some people will bring some signs that say something like "COP" with a big bright arrow. Then they can follow the undercover officers around so everyone can easily see who they are.
I would suggest that property destruction be limited to multinational corporations, banks and federal institutions (INS, Military).
Also only defensive actions should be taken against the police. The general rule should be to not throw things at the police under almost any circumstance. Some police are good people believe it or not. Only if the police have begun to engage in violence and are charging the crowd with horses or vehicles, then perhaps throwing something can be seen as defensive. Also only dumb assholes throw anything at the police from back in the crowd. This leads to protesters near the police getting accidentally hit, and alos enraging the police who are more likely to attack the people close to them. If you are going to throw something at a police officer make sure you know what you are doing and are not putting anyone in danger.
Look out for one another, engage in dearresting when you see someone getting snagged. This means physically pulling your fellow protester out of the hand of the police.
All in all, have a good fucking time, be militant but be smart and be peacful when possible and use defenses when necessary. They are our streets we are going to take them and hold them.
I would suggest that property destruction be limited to multinational corporations, banks and federal institutions (INS, Military).
Also only defensive actions should be taken against the police. The general rule should be to not throw things at the police under almost any circumstance. Some police are good people believe it or not. Only if the police have begun to engage in violence and are charging the crowd with horses or vehicles, then perhaps throwing something can be seen as defensive. Also only dumb assholes throw anything at the police from back in the crowd. This leads to protesters near the police getting accidentally hit, and alos enraging the police who are more likely to attack the people close to them. If you are going to throw something at a police officer make sure you know what you are doing and are not putting anyone in danger.
Look out for one another, engage in dearresting when you see someone getting snagged. This means physically pulling your fellow protester out of the hand of the police.
All in all, have a good fucking time, be militant but be smart and be peacful when possible and use defenses when necessary. They are our streets we are going to take them and hold them.
Yeah - last time someone with horrible aim threw a piece of asphalt that went so off course that it hit someone on the leg and they started to scream. an officer who wasn't part of the crowd control troops was polite and gave her medical help. watch where you are throwing things. probably, you wouldn't want to make a horse kick by throwing a plastic bottle either. for unarresting, or 'lynching' - which is a felony, you'd have to make a judgment call. There are lots of cases where it has worked well, but if someone is surrounded by a lot of police already, you could easily just add to the # of people in detention.
Bring lots of gauze bandages for when they police start swinging their batons.
Your reasons for forming a *breakaway* march are suspect, whoever you are.
By breaking away you weaken the main demonstration.
By taking unapproved action for the sake of the *unapproved* aspect of it, you make no point and only invite police action.
I thought the goal was to raise the awareness of the average american couch potato by demonstrating strength in numbers and cohesiveness and, most importantly, the proffering of a reasonable message of peace and rational thought.
If you engage in property destruction, you only harm the cause and cast the whole protest in a bad light.
Your best weapon is video and photo documentation of instances of police instigation and a reasonalbe and articulate voice.
We all hate what the large corporations have done to us, both culturally and financially. But breaking windows and throwing rocks only makes our cause look light a mob without a mind. If you do this, it only provides fodder for the main stream corporate media to cast the whole protest as a pack of rioters.
If you are a *real* protester, then stick with the main movement. Even corporate media cannot ignore tens of thousands of Americans taking to the street. If you are someone else attempting to disrupt the peace by providing a plausible reason for the police to use tear gas and club people over the head, then you are guilty of treason and are the worst kind of swine!
By breaking away you weaken the main demonstration.
By taking unapproved action for the sake of the *unapproved* aspect of it, you make no point and only invite police action.
I thought the goal was to raise the awareness of the average american couch potato by demonstrating strength in numbers and cohesiveness and, most importantly, the proffering of a reasonable message of peace and rational thought.
If you engage in property destruction, you only harm the cause and cast the whole protest in a bad light.
Your best weapon is video and photo documentation of instances of police instigation and a reasonalbe and articulate voice.
We all hate what the large corporations have done to us, both culturally and financially. But breaking windows and throwing rocks only makes our cause look light a mob without a mind. If you do this, it only provides fodder for the main stream corporate media to cast the whole protest as a pack of rioters.
If you are a *real* protester, then stick with the main movement. Even corporate media cannot ignore tens of thousands of Americans taking to the street. If you are someone else attempting to disrupt the peace by providing a plausible reason for the police to use tear gas and club people over the head, then you are guilty of treason and are the worst kind of swine!
yeah, some of us our pissed off about what the corporations have done. While some of us are pissed off enough to spend their saturday holding a sign, others are a little more outraged.
the breakaway march doesn't detract from the main march. Anyone in the entertainment industry will tell you bad press is better than no press.
as for the traitor comments, are we traitorous because you disagree with our tactics? Or are we traitors against the gov. I'm just no following the logic here. Sounds stalinist to me.
Everybody's crying out for peace
I don't want no peace....
....i want equal rights and justice peter tosh
and you can't fight back with posterboard. Put your signs down and pick up a rock.
love and class war!!!
the breakaway march doesn't detract from the main march. Anyone in the entertainment industry will tell you bad press is better than no press.
as for the traitor comments, are we traitorous because you disagree with our tactics? Or are we traitors against the gov. I'm just no following the logic here. Sounds stalinist to me.
Everybody's crying out for peace
I don't want no peace....
....i want equal rights and justice peter tosh
and you can't fight back with posterboard. Put your signs down and pick up a rock.
love and class war!!!
People want to take a step forward, because demonstrations are not stopping the war.
They see that the capitalist companies are the engine behind the war.
But broken windows don't damage the capitalists. Strikes damage the capitalists.
Some industries are important to the war.
Strikes can close them down. Demonstrations can be mass pickets to help strikes.
Strikes can stop the war.
Workers can stop the war.
They see that the capitalist companies are the engine behind the war.
But broken windows don't damage the capitalists. Strikes damage the capitalists.
Some industries are important to the war.
Strikes can close them down. Demonstrations can be mass pickets to help strikes.
Strikes can stop the war.
Workers can stop the war.
Ed,
I'm not a black bloc person, nor have I marched with them recently. Not because of a lack of solidarity, but because I have other things to do at those times.
However, I feel that you're not being realistic about your black or white approach to this. Breakaway marchers are not all provocateurs, but rather they have a different approach to protesting.
Personally I disagree with the tactics of property destruction _at this time_ but that's not to say that those who do are wrong or agents.
As for your idea of "approval" I think its really not applicable. I don't think anyone needs yours or anyone elses approval to protest injustice and war. The reason these things happen on the dates of big marches from my understanding is that people come from all over to gather together to protest as one, and it is only logical that the people who don't want to listen to boring speeches get together and go do something more proactive. I don't think everyone who goes to the breakaways are planning on property destruction.
I would suggest more widely accepted methods of protest such as some cool direct actions rather than vandalization as the more appropriate tactic of the moment. However that is my opinion, and I don't try to hoist that on others.
I too am concerned when I see the entire march being cast as a smaller contingent of vandals. However, I place the blame for this precicely where it belongs: On the media who portrays it incorrectly. Since we cannot control the media, I _ask_ those who would engage in property destruction to rethink your tactics. I don't condemn them however, because we're all just doing what we can to be heard. We all have our different ways of saying things, and the media will continue to exploit our differences.
But we have to stick together because we cannot loose sight of the real enemy: the warmakers.
I'm not a black bloc person, nor have I marched with them recently. Not because of a lack of solidarity, but because I have other things to do at those times.
However, I feel that you're not being realistic about your black or white approach to this. Breakaway marchers are not all provocateurs, but rather they have a different approach to protesting.
Personally I disagree with the tactics of property destruction _at this time_ but that's not to say that those who do are wrong or agents.
As for your idea of "approval" I think its really not applicable. I don't think anyone needs yours or anyone elses approval to protest injustice and war. The reason these things happen on the dates of big marches from my understanding is that people come from all over to gather together to protest as one, and it is only logical that the people who don't want to listen to boring speeches get together and go do something more proactive. I don't think everyone who goes to the breakaways are planning on property destruction.
I would suggest more widely accepted methods of protest such as some cool direct actions rather than vandalization as the more appropriate tactic of the moment. However that is my opinion, and I don't try to hoist that on others.
I too am concerned when I see the entire march being cast as a smaller contingent of vandals. However, I place the blame for this precicely where it belongs: On the media who portrays it incorrectly. Since we cannot control the media, I _ask_ those who would engage in property destruction to rethink your tactics. I don't condemn them however, because we're all just doing what we can to be heard. We all have our different ways of saying things, and the media will continue to exploit our differences.
But we have to stick together because we cannot loose sight of the real enemy: the warmakers.
I want to participate in an unpermitted march that explicitly does NOT have property destruction. Not that I am categorically against PD - the INS hit was righteous - but I'm concerned about a lack of focus and message, among other things.
I understand that when parade marshals are gone, people begin to express their real anger and outrage towards this sick system. That's normal to me. What is troubling are the politicians -- no matter how small or petty they might be -- who think that it is their job to control or direct or take responsiblility for the march. These folks are crying out for a leftist arch-organization who can whip the commoners into shape. All that's happening here is an unpermitted march with few rules besides those which naturally are worked out amongst the participants. Anyone who has a problem with that is a huge suspect in my book.
> All that's happening here is an unpermitted march with few rules besides those which naturally are worked out amongst the participants. Anyone who has a problem with that is a huge suspect in my book.
Ah, but they aren't, are they? There's no procedure during the march to determine which rules are "naturally worked out". There simple are no rules.
I'm worried about the effect of the march will be on public sentiment. I want to be part of an unpermitted march, but I don't want to be seen as supporting whatever happens at the march. You may disagree with my position, or that I am seen as supporting whatever happens, but, nevertheless, that's my position and I'm sticking to it.
You want to have a march without rules, go ahead. I have nothing against you, I just don't want to take part. I want something else, separate, that has some articulated ground rules. No marshals or anything, just voluntary adherence to a simple list of guidelines.
What's so hard to understand about that? Can you accept my wish for this without calling me, in effect, a movement cop?
Ah, but they aren't, are they? There's no procedure during the march to determine which rules are "naturally worked out". There simple are no rules.
I'm worried about the effect of the march will be on public sentiment. I want to be part of an unpermitted march, but I don't want to be seen as supporting whatever happens at the march. You may disagree with my position, or that I am seen as supporting whatever happens, but, nevertheless, that's my position and I'm sticking to it.
You want to have a march without rules, go ahead. I have nothing against you, I just don't want to take part. I want something else, separate, that has some articulated ground rules. No marshals or anything, just voluntary adherence to a simple list of guidelines.
What's so hard to understand about that? Can you accept my wish for this without calling me, in effect, a movement cop?
Aw, that's cute. Welcome to the real world where people don't conform to expectations that any given individual person has in their head. And yes, it is unreasonable and childish to assume that things will ever be different ever, unless maybe you just retreat to some kind of cult farm where everyone is forced to think alike.
Dumbass, I don't want everyone else to do what I think, as I said above "You want to have a march without rules, go ahead. I have nothing against you, I just don't want to take part."
I am also interested in a non-violent breakaway march. I draw from Gandhi's and MLK's non-violent tradition of confrontation, not Joe Rockthrow's.
Dear friends,
I'd like to wish great success on the streets to those courageous enough to oppose not only war but its causes, Capital and State. We would do well to remember the dogmatists attempting to exercise hegemony over our revolutionary spirit as 3-4 million Vietnamese brothers and sisters were being killed or maimed.
It is of course the historic duty of anarchists to take substantive action against injustice with the aim of stopping it, not soothing one's conscience. To our historic responsibility of course, we will respond.
Try this exercise right before you bloc-up, I think you'll find it enjoyable:
Take a deep breath......smile......and visualize corporate collapse
I'd like to wish great success on the streets to those courageous enough to oppose not only war but its causes, Capital and State. We would do well to remember the dogmatists attempting to exercise hegemony over our revolutionary spirit as 3-4 million Vietnamese brothers and sisters were being killed or maimed.
It is of course the historic duty of anarchists to take substantive action against injustice with the aim of stopping it, not soothing one's conscience. To our historic responsibility of course, we will respond.
Try this exercise right before you bloc-up, I think you'll find it enjoyable:
Take a deep breath......smile......and visualize corporate collapse
The way that IAC solves this problem is by cooperating with the police and using parade marshalls. I'd be curious how the "pacifist breakaway" people intend to enforce their "rules" ... and then you realize, oh yeah this isn't a breakaway march at all. On the other hand, an unpermitted march who goes to get arrested doesn't really sound appealing to anyone except arrest martyrs. I just don't get it. Basically, you don't want an IAC march but you want it to act like an IAC march. Weird.
I'm down with the break-away march. I like the idea of a night-time "unpermitted" action as well.
I agree with 'a' when s/he voices a desire to have some basic ground-rules established for these actions. My thought is that the ground-rules should only be stated in negative terms. For instance, the coming demo could be publicized as an action that will not engage in unprovoked violence or property destruction. My guess is that that would make many who otherwise are apprehensive more comfortable attending. To me, that is important.
If there are no ground-rules stated prior to the action it would be right to infer that any and all tactics are fair-game.
If we had a clear agreement going in that unprovoked property destruction was a no-no I think we'd be better prepared as a movement to suppress those few who're too bull-headed and/or selfish to accept some reasonable discipline. Until anarcho-commie identified actions are able to reign in their young bucks they'll be disrespected by the vast majority--and rightly so.
Hard-core fuck-shit-up types may not realize it but they're every bit as moralistic and tactically and strategically brain-dead as the absolutist pacifists.
Let's not be moralistic idiots, okay?
I agree with 'a' when s/he voices a desire to have some basic ground-rules established for these actions. My thought is that the ground-rules should only be stated in negative terms. For instance, the coming demo could be publicized as an action that will not engage in unprovoked violence or property destruction. My guess is that that would make many who otherwise are apprehensive more comfortable attending. To me, that is important.
If there are no ground-rules stated prior to the action it would be right to infer that any and all tactics are fair-game.
If we had a clear agreement going in that unprovoked property destruction was a no-no I think we'd be better prepared as a movement to suppress those few who're too bull-headed and/or selfish to accept some reasonable discipline. Until anarcho-commie identified actions are able to reign in their young bucks they'll be disrespected by the vast majority--and rightly so.
Hard-core fuck-shit-up types may not realize it but they're every bit as moralistic and tactically and strategically brain-dead as the absolutist pacifists.
Let's not be moralistic idiots, okay?
OK....the ground rules have been set.
1) Destroy capitalism and it's state mechanisms by any means neccessary.
2) Don't impose any of your rules on others.
other than that, have fun and be safe and stay free
another thing that should be stated, because there seems to be a lack of understanding, is that there are a lot of politics behind it. A lot of people aren't out there just to stop THIS particular war. i can only speak for myself, but stopping the war is only one of a number of motivations. The vision of a stateless, classless society is another. It just happens that we're all already in the city for the 'planned' marches so why not escalate while we're there.
1) Destroy capitalism and it's state mechanisms by any means neccessary.
2) Don't impose any of your rules on others.
other than that, have fun and be safe and stay free
another thing that should be stated, because there seems to be a lack of understanding, is that there are a lot of politics behind it. A lot of people aren't out there just to stop THIS particular war. i can only speak for myself, but stopping the war is only one of a number of motivations. The vision of a stateless, classless society is another. It just happens that we're all already in the city for the 'planned' marches so why not escalate while we're there.
Protest! But please don't smash windows and try to take over cable cars.
It makes the whole peace movement look like a bunch of idiots.
The right wing factions love it when thugs make the headlines. It takes the real issues off the front page.
Peace out.
It makes the whole peace movement look like a bunch of idiots.
The right wing factions love it when thugs make the headlines. It takes the real issues off the front page.
Peace out.
Tell that to the cops.
>We would do well to remember the dogmatists attempting to exercise hegemony over our revolutionary spirit as 3-4 million Vietnamese brothers and sisters were being killed or maimed. It is of course the historic duty of anarchists to take substantive action against injustice with the aim of stopping it...
I haven't heard lately, but just how well are the anarchists in Vietnam doing at shaking off the injustice of Capital and State rule in their own country?
I haven't heard lately, but just how well are the anarchists in Vietnam doing at shaking off the injustice of Capital and State rule in their own country?
Obviously, what the right-wing loves is when liberals do their jobs for them and sow dissent between factions on the left, like between people who just want to go to the IAC march and people who want to go on a breakaway march. Agree with it or not, none of us should be openly criticizing the breakaway and making it seem like its ok for the cops to go crazy on people. Whose side are you on anyway?
As for the "thugs" getting on the frontpage, can you show me one example of this from the recent demos beginning on Oct 26? I think it is true that the IAC marches got top billing on Indymedia, Chronicle, Examiner, Tribune, and the major local news channels. So stop fucking lying.
As for the "thugs" getting on the frontpage, can you show me one example of this from the recent demos beginning on Oct 26? I think it is true that the IAC marches got top billing on Indymedia, Chronicle, Examiner, Tribune, and the major local news channels. So stop fucking lying.
Is this breakaway plan supposed to be representing those who are out of creative imagination, who lack a clearly stated agenda, who haven't been around long enough to have learned to overcome helpless responses to social injustice and those who would be called warmongers, fueling the fires of war by advocating mindless violence with no particular intention to bring about any lasting positive social change? In short, a clique for the socially powerless fuck-shit-up folks who will latch onto any reason to be anti-peace and pro-destruction with no real vision.
Come on kids, let's be honest now, go deep inside and ask yourself, do you have a real vision for a society changing co-operatively, based in ideals that address and remedy injustices at a root level? Do any of you ever think of what that would be like, or do you really just feel like having a reason, any reason, to just KICK ASS?
If it's the second option you love, then this is just a thanks ... thanks for playing into the existing corrupt media structure and creating fodder for the mind-addling propaganda machine, thanks for giving corrupt law-enforcement agents who FEEL JUST LIKE YOU a good reason to kick ass (some will be amongst you instigating the violence just to get their rocks off and get the action going), thanks for contributing to more unrest and incurring more costs on the public at large - corporations always pass the bill for damages onto the rest of us. I say thanks, because people who really want to see lasting positive change happen will have a lot to learn from you ass-kickers. By learning more about you guys, we all get an up close look at what it must be like among the big planetary destroyers, you know, what they must be going through when they come up with the world policies they do at the expense of everyone else they share this, our one and only family spaceship, planet Earth.
Oh, sorry, I know that some of you are not Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Condoleeza Rice, Gen. Powell wanna-be's - the sad and cut off from humanity, cut off from life and willing to perpetuate destruction types...
To you who have hope for a better world, though I don't know what you dream of when you visualize a different world, I also offer thanks for caring enough to want to make a difference. May you all find a creative project to give your heart and soul to making real. Find your creative allies and get going! Remember, you only strengthen whatever you fight against - so don't waste your energy being against things, show us what you are FOR and don't quit until you make it happen.
Come on kids, let's be honest now, go deep inside and ask yourself, do you have a real vision for a society changing co-operatively, based in ideals that address and remedy injustices at a root level? Do any of you ever think of what that would be like, or do you really just feel like having a reason, any reason, to just KICK ASS?
If it's the second option you love, then this is just a thanks ... thanks for playing into the existing corrupt media structure and creating fodder for the mind-addling propaganda machine, thanks for giving corrupt law-enforcement agents who FEEL JUST LIKE YOU a good reason to kick ass (some will be amongst you instigating the violence just to get their rocks off and get the action going), thanks for contributing to more unrest and incurring more costs on the public at large - corporations always pass the bill for damages onto the rest of us. I say thanks, because people who really want to see lasting positive change happen will have a lot to learn from you ass-kickers. By learning more about you guys, we all get an up close look at what it must be like among the big planetary destroyers, you know, what they must be going through when they come up with the world policies they do at the expense of everyone else they share this, our one and only family spaceship, planet Earth.
Oh, sorry, I know that some of you are not Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Condoleeza Rice, Gen. Powell wanna-be's - the sad and cut off from humanity, cut off from life and willing to perpetuate destruction types...
To you who have hope for a better world, though I don't know what you dream of when you visualize a different world, I also offer thanks for caring enough to want to make a difference. May you all find a creative project to give your heart and soul to making real. Find your creative allies and get going! Remember, you only strengthen whatever you fight against - so don't waste your energy being against things, show us what you are FOR and don't quit until you make it happen.
for the last time.........
property destruction (specifically corporate property) is not violence. Violence is people hitting people (think cops).
and i am for a classless society. sometimes you have to break an egg (or window) to make an omelette. besides, all this window replacement and spray paint removal brings jobs to the community.
PS......remember to march in an orderly fashion with plenty of posterboard and maybe 10 years from now we'll stop this war. this tactic completely derailed the vietnam war so we've got to stick with it. ugh!
property destruction (specifically corporate property) is not violence. Violence is people hitting people (think cops).
and i am for a classless society. sometimes you have to break an egg (or window) to make an omelette. besides, all this window replacement and spray paint removal brings jobs to the community.
PS......remember to march in an orderly fashion with plenty of posterboard and maybe 10 years from now we'll stop this war. this tactic completely derailed the vietnam war so we've got to stick with it. ugh!
anyone who thinks that breaking windows doesn't solve anything is sorely misled. Every window that's been broken so far had a specific reason for why it was targeted. These reasons are easily encountered on the internet (i've seen explanations here on indymedia). If you hold up a sign saying the corporation does this or that, nobody pays attention. If you break their window and give your reasons, you draw more attention.
anyone who thinks that breaking windows doesn't solve anything is sorely misled. Every window that's been broken so far had a specific reason for why it was targeted. These reasons are easily encountered on the internet (i've seen explanations here on indymedia). If you hold up a sign saying the corporation does this or that, nobody pays attention. If you break their window and give your reasons, you draw more attention.
what does that make the bombing of Iraq's water purification plants?
Don't let those capitalist dictate our protests, (our democracy).
Stop being oppressed. Stop being afraid to act because of fear that the media will make us look bad.
Free your minds. Media, the guards of the capitalist system. Push them aside.
Don't let them decide for us. You make the decision, not them.
Don't ask permission from state to protest against state.
We are supposed to resist them not comply with them.
Are we really trying to stop them or are we just playing into their hands?
Don't be afraid of the police. We out number them.
We are on the right path.
Don't stop what you’re doing.
If we stick together and watch out for one another we can win.
Let's stop business as usual. Let's stop the war machine!
Peace
Stop being oppressed. Stop being afraid to act because of fear that the media will make us look bad.
Free your minds. Media, the guards of the capitalist system. Push them aside.
Don't let them decide for us. You make the decision, not them.
Don't ask permission from state to protest against state.
We are supposed to resist them not comply with them.
Are we really trying to stop them or are we just playing into their hands?
Don't be afraid of the police. We out number them.
We are on the right path.
Don't stop what you’re doing.
If we stick together and watch out for one another we can win.
Let's stop business as usual. Let's stop the war machine!
Peace
In my experience, the lefty "community-building" folks are everything the right-wing says about them: pretentious, obnoxious, arrogant, and generally naive clueless kids who went to college and then became a nonprofit careerist.
Let's examine messages:
MARCH IN A PARADE = people cared enough to get off the couch
MARCH IN AN UNPERMITTED PARADE = people cared enough to get off the couch and risk a little bit to stop genocidal bombing campaigns
MARCH IN AN UNPERMITTED PARADE AND REFUSE TO ALLOW THE GOVERNMENT TO DICTATE HOW IT HAPPENS = people cared enough to risk a lot to stop genocidal bombing campaigns
That, my friends, is called REALPOLITIK.
All of your lofty bullshit is saved for your coffee house chats.
Let's examine messages:
MARCH IN A PARADE = people cared enough to get off the couch
MARCH IN AN UNPERMITTED PARADE = people cared enough to get off the couch and risk a little bit to stop genocidal bombing campaigns
MARCH IN AN UNPERMITTED PARADE AND REFUSE TO ALLOW THE GOVERNMENT TO DICTATE HOW IT HAPPENS = people cared enough to risk a lot to stop genocidal bombing campaigns
That, my friends, is called REALPOLITIK.
All of your lofty bullshit is saved for your coffee house chats.
Yeah lets reduce ourselves to vandalism and and instigate a riot. Not. Alot of people bring there kids to these Marches. The numbers at these marches will diminish if they turn in to violent skirmishes. Hatred can only be extinguished by Love. Violence won't and never has solved anything. Peace! is the object.
Tell that to the Jews who survived the Holocaust by killing their guards and burning Treblinka to the ground.
Thats rather spurious logic don't you think?
Are Americans really to be compared to a group of people rounded up, imprisoned and murdered for their religious belief?
Your personal choice to engage in property vandalism or whatever to satisfy your own political ends is just that, a choice, the imprisoned Jews about to die, did not have that choice.
That said:
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr
Are Americans really to be compared to a group of people rounded up, imprisoned and murdered for their religious belief?
Your personal choice to engage in property vandalism or whatever to satisfy your own political ends is just that, a choice, the imprisoned Jews about to die, did not have that choice.
That said:
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr
I stated >We would do well to remember the dogmatists attempting to exercise hegemony over our revolutionary spirit as 3-4 million Vietnamese brothers and sisters were being killed or maimed. It is of course the historic duty of anarchists to take substantive action against injustice with the aim of stopping it...
You asked > I haven't heard lately, but just how well are the anarchists in Vietnam doing at shaking off the injustice of Capital and State rule in their own country?
My response: Thanks for your question, although it doesn't seem to be in a comradely tone.
To cite the shortcomings of the Vietnam regime in justifying the U.S.'s genocidal war there strikes me as completely unjustified. When does anything justify genocide? Further, given over a thousand years of brutal imperial domination by the Chinese, French, Japanese, and the U.S., Vietnam is doing quite well actually. Please consult the situation in Vietnam, including the direction of objective human development indicators, so as not to give aid to Western propagandists.
The issue of course is the appropriateness of serious tactics against this war in Iraq. Unfortunately obedience will not stop this war, and indeed has never stopped any war. To advocate against escalatory tactics given the state of this ruinous world frankly borders on serious naivete.
No one can compete with the eloquence of pacifist slogans. They are truly uplifting in a spiritual sense. Unfortunately, when subjected to the scrutiny of empirical analysis they fall short.
Fellow anarchists, revolutionaries, and insurrectionists, we should appreciate the good-faith efforts of those who attempt to rein us in (I guess). However, we also should get serious about their revolutionary potential or lack there of. Our responsibility, of course, is to the most oppressed elements of this country and the world. Because Iraqi children, women, and men are not abstractions, but beautiful human beings our anti-war actions must be commensurate to the gravity of their plight.
SF Friends: What would you expect of people in the belly of the beast if bombs were about to rip apart your family's bodies?
The good news is we don't need to beg the State to give up war OR kill people. All we have to do is crush their property, plant, and equipment and refuse to do their bidding.
For Anarchy, For Freedom, For the End of Corporate Dictatorship, For Authentic Revolutionary Nonviolence
You asked > I haven't heard lately, but just how well are the anarchists in Vietnam doing at shaking off the injustice of Capital and State rule in their own country?
My response: Thanks for your question, although it doesn't seem to be in a comradely tone.
To cite the shortcomings of the Vietnam regime in justifying the U.S.'s genocidal war there strikes me as completely unjustified. When does anything justify genocide? Further, given over a thousand years of brutal imperial domination by the Chinese, French, Japanese, and the U.S., Vietnam is doing quite well actually. Please consult the situation in Vietnam, including the direction of objective human development indicators, so as not to give aid to Western propagandists.
The issue of course is the appropriateness of serious tactics against this war in Iraq. Unfortunately obedience will not stop this war, and indeed has never stopped any war. To advocate against escalatory tactics given the state of this ruinous world frankly borders on serious naivete.
No one can compete with the eloquence of pacifist slogans. They are truly uplifting in a spiritual sense. Unfortunately, when subjected to the scrutiny of empirical analysis they fall short.
Fellow anarchists, revolutionaries, and insurrectionists, we should appreciate the good-faith efforts of those who attempt to rein us in (I guess). However, we also should get serious about their revolutionary potential or lack there of. Our responsibility, of course, is to the most oppressed elements of this country and the world. Because Iraqi children, women, and men are not abstractions, but beautiful human beings our anti-war actions must be commensurate to the gravity of their plight.
SF Friends: What would you expect of people in the belly of the beast if bombs were about to rip apart your family's bodies?
The good news is we don't need to beg the State to give up war OR kill people. All we have to do is crush their property, plant, and equipment and refuse to do their bidding.
For Anarchy, For Freedom, For the End of Corporate Dictatorship, For Authentic Revolutionary Nonviolence
>No one can compete with the eloquence of pacifist
>slogans. They are truly uplifting in a spiritual sense.
>Unfortunately, when subjected to the scrutiny of >empirical analysis they fall short.
Alas Empirical Analysis is just that, empirical, a luxury bestowed to the educated minority. An "elite", one might argue, embued with their own righteousness.
>Fellow anarchists, revolutionaries, and
>insurrectionists, we should appreciate the good-faith
>efforts of those who attempt to rein us in (I guess).
No attempt needed, clearly you can make up your own mind, free and unfettered from the ideals of the dead an the past.
>However, we also should get serious about their
>revolutionary potential or lack there of.
And we should also be serious about yours. Speaking for the masses in a time of personal responsibility beckons the wrath of a leader? or should we just listen and not ask any questions? Sure "politik rhetoric" comes easy to those with nothing to lose. Look at me.. I'm a one legged disabled old african lesbian with a keyboard........ (did I mention I'm black?)
>Our responsibility, of course, is to the most oppressed >elements of this country and the world. Because Iraqi
>children, women, and men are not abstractions, but \
>beautiful human beings our anti-war actions must be
>commensurate to the gravity of their plight.
Your responsibility is to yourself and your community, the oppressed do not "call-out" for your condescending, self righteousness. You will hear no arguments on the the matter of peace. OUR? Responsibility? Doesn't that require US to decide?
>SF Friends: What would you expect of people in the >belly of the beast if bombs were about to rip apart your >family's bodies?
Poor reasoning, few if any SF residents have ever experienced this. Most would be Vietnam war survivors who live in the Tenderloin. Who wont be reading this anytime soon. (Or will they.....)
>The good news is we don't need to beg the State to
>give up war OR kill people. All we have to do is crush >their property, plant, and equipment and refuse to do >their bidding.
Really? Crush Their Property? - now what exactly does that entail? Windows at the GAP? the INS office on Sansome? What exactly does the "State" own these days anyways? The roads? Traffic lights? Bridges? Runways? Sewer systems? Electricity Plants? Hospitals? Nursing Homes? Orphanages, mortuaries, VA Hospital, The IRS?
Their Plant? Hmmm .....
Hold on, I'm unclear... Do you mean state or federal or local? Should i wreck up the Caltrain? Prehaps I should piss in the water resevoir on top of Twin Peaks, (oh they covered that?) Maybe I should punchout the guy who replaced the traffic cross signals with those count down lights (I knew he was pro-war - that bastard - him with his countdown, telling ME when to cross the road - he was secretly signalling the countdown to invasion...)
No lets see, maybe i won't pay my taxes, or I'll set fire to the Federal Court House, yeah that'll prevent the precedent setting court battles against environmental destruction or deportation of immigants because of their national origin or.....NO wait, that's the State Court (you idiot) - Hold up I'm confused - he said smash the state! didn't he?
>For Anarchy, For Freedom, For the End of Corporate
>Dictatorship, For Authentic Revolutionary Nonviolence
Right on brother! A.R.N. - I've been saying that for years.
>slogans. They are truly uplifting in a spiritual sense.
>Unfortunately, when subjected to the scrutiny of >empirical analysis they fall short.
Alas Empirical Analysis is just that, empirical, a luxury bestowed to the educated minority. An "elite", one might argue, embued with their own righteousness.
>Fellow anarchists, revolutionaries, and
>insurrectionists, we should appreciate the good-faith
>efforts of those who attempt to rein us in (I guess).
No attempt needed, clearly you can make up your own mind, free and unfettered from the ideals of the dead an the past.
>However, we also should get serious about their
>revolutionary potential or lack there of.
And we should also be serious about yours. Speaking for the masses in a time of personal responsibility beckons the wrath of a leader? or should we just listen and not ask any questions? Sure "politik rhetoric" comes easy to those with nothing to lose. Look at me.. I'm a one legged disabled old african lesbian with a keyboard........ (did I mention I'm black?)
>Our responsibility, of course, is to the most oppressed >elements of this country and the world. Because Iraqi
>children, women, and men are not abstractions, but \
>beautiful human beings our anti-war actions must be
>commensurate to the gravity of their plight.
Your responsibility is to yourself and your community, the oppressed do not "call-out" for your condescending, self righteousness. You will hear no arguments on the the matter of peace. OUR? Responsibility? Doesn't that require US to decide?
>SF Friends: What would you expect of people in the >belly of the beast if bombs were about to rip apart your >family's bodies?
Poor reasoning, few if any SF residents have ever experienced this. Most would be Vietnam war survivors who live in the Tenderloin. Who wont be reading this anytime soon. (Or will they.....)
>The good news is we don't need to beg the State to
>give up war OR kill people. All we have to do is crush >their property, plant, and equipment and refuse to do >their bidding.
Really? Crush Their Property? - now what exactly does that entail? Windows at the GAP? the INS office on Sansome? What exactly does the "State" own these days anyways? The roads? Traffic lights? Bridges? Runways? Sewer systems? Electricity Plants? Hospitals? Nursing Homes? Orphanages, mortuaries, VA Hospital, The IRS?
Their Plant? Hmmm .....
Hold on, I'm unclear... Do you mean state or federal or local? Should i wreck up the Caltrain? Prehaps I should piss in the water resevoir on top of Twin Peaks, (oh they covered that?) Maybe I should punchout the guy who replaced the traffic cross signals with those count down lights (I knew he was pro-war - that bastard - him with his countdown, telling ME when to cross the road - he was secretly signalling the countdown to invasion...)
No lets see, maybe i won't pay my taxes, or I'll set fire to the Federal Court House, yeah that'll prevent the precedent setting court battles against environmental destruction or deportation of immigants because of their national origin or.....NO wait, that's the State Court (you idiot) - Hold up I'm confused - he said smash the state! didn't he?
>For Anarchy, For Freedom, For the End of Corporate
>Dictatorship, For Authentic Revolutionary Nonviolence
Right on brother! A.R.N. - I've been saying that for years.
>Vietnam is doing quite well actually.
Yeah, they look it. North Korea's just paradise on Earth, too.
Yeah, they look it. North Korea's just paradise on Earth, too.
> Destroy capitalism and it's state mechanisms by any means neccessary.
Do you honestly think capitalism will be smashed one window at a time?
Do you honestly think capitalism will be smashed one window at a time?
while not living in unspeakable luxury at the expence of others, like America does, are far, far better off than they were as colonies.
I agree. Who wouldn't want to be a citizen of a country where dissent like having potests or posting words on the internet where you don't agree with the powers that be can land you in prison or dead? Where can we all sign up?
BTW, when is the IMC in Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City or Pyongyang going to be up and running?
BTW, when is the IMC in Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City or Pyongyang going to be up and running?
Why unspeakable? Let's speak of them.
Cars, schools, enclosed housing, plenty of clothing, large selection of food, electricity, indoor plumbing, soft beds, pillows, paved roads, ability to be at a hospital/doctor/dentist in a matter of minutes, medicines, air-condition/heat, bridges, buses, ships, planes, trains, TV, radio, computers, internet, librarys, restaurants, fuel, motorcycles, telephone, plurality of sporting events, bad weather forecasts, space exploration, Theme parks, shopping malls, convienence stores,.......
Cars, schools, enclosed housing, plenty of clothing, large selection of food, electricity, indoor plumbing, soft beds, pillows, paved roads, ability to be at a hospital/doctor/dentist in a matter of minutes, medicines, air-condition/heat, bridges, buses, ships, planes, trains, TV, radio, computers, internet, librarys, restaurants, fuel, motorcycles, telephone, plurality of sporting events, bad weather forecasts, space exploration, Theme parks, shopping malls, convienence stores,.......
I have no problem with property destruction necessarily, but PLEASE, don't make this unpermitted march like the last two. If the U.S. goes to war against Iraq, the gravity of this sort of disobience and rebellion will be totally diluted. Instead of, "This is fucked up, and people are PISSED," the message people will come away with is, "So what, a war started, and these kids rioted, like they use anything as an excuse to do."
I hope this post doesn't fall on totally deaf ears and that the strategic importance of anticapitalist protests is contemplated and weighed against the short-term satisfaction of confrontation and sabotage.
I hope this post doesn't fall on totally deaf ears and that the strategic importance of anticapitalist protests is contemplated and weighed against the short-term satisfaction of confrontation and sabotage.
if we start smashing shit now, what will we have left to do to "make a statement" when the war starts? thats the question you are asking? if so, consider that its also the question Bush and co. are asking, and maybe THATS THE FUCKING POINT.
also, maybe you should be asking yourself if this is just about symbolism or perceived "gravity" of protest. and maybe consider that that is also also a question Bush and co. are asking themselves. And maybe, theres a point to asking that question too, OF EVERYBODY IN THE SO-CALLED PEACE MOVEMENT.
wait for war to start to amp up the resistance? are you insane? or just morally bankrupt?
also, maybe you should be asking yourself if this is just about symbolism or perceived "gravity" of protest. and maybe consider that that is also also a question Bush and co. are asking themselves. And maybe, theres a point to asking that question too, OF EVERYBODY IN THE SO-CALLED PEACE MOVEMENT.
wait for war to start to amp up the resistance? are you insane? or just morally bankrupt?
He's the kind of person who thinks that some wingnut strategy he came up with some night in his dorm room after bongrips is supposed to something we all adhere to. The point of the March 15th demo is to keep the momentum going, to show people that we aren't going to back down, etc. I'm amazed at the number of people who don't want to participate in that, but also are going out of their way to discourage people from participating in it. Its absurdity, really.
The real point is that most people will be at work on the "day-of" actions and they just won't be able to skip out of it.
The real point is that most people will be at work on the "day-of" actions and they just won't be able to skip out of it.
you miss that almost all of these fantastic features of modern life carry at their heart certain exploitative maneuvers, certain lies and falsehoods, certain mistakes. there is no question that everyone values the advantages they bring (us) but beneath the veneer of "luxury" there exist ages-old power relationships that are WRONG.
don't succumb to complacency.
there is SO. MUCH. TO. FIGHT. FOR.
don't succumb to complacency.
there is SO. MUCH. TO. FIGHT. FOR.
>at work on the "day-of" actions and they just won't be able to skip out of it.
Anyone who doesn't call in sick will be supporting the war. The blood of scores of thousands will be upon their hands.
Anyone who doesn't call in sick will be supporting the war. The blood of scores of thousands will be upon their hands.
What about the BART train operators. They sure better show up for work.
or if something else (wet tickets, for example) grinds BART to a halt?
Do people have back up plans?
Do people have back up plans?
>>What about the BART train operators. They sure better show up for work
They should do what they want to do. If BART Operators Strike, that would do a whole lot more damage than a few lock downs. It would also be a whole different sector of the population taking an active stance against this capitalist war, rather than always being specialist-activists (not that everyone doing Day After stuff is one).
But, if they DO strike, maybe it could be an opportunity to take it under popular control...does anyone know how to drive a BART train?
They should do what they want to do. If BART Operators Strike, that would do a whole lot more damage than a few lock downs. It would also be a whole different sector of the population taking an active stance against this capitalist war, rather than always being specialist-activists (not that everyone doing Day After stuff is one).
But, if they DO strike, maybe it could be an opportunity to take it under popular control...does anyone know how to drive a BART train?
The fact of the matter is is that there is going to be property damage, not just by us but by others who may not even have the ability to get online tho view the opinions of anti-breakaway property damage... Its going to happen..
We know that it is done out of anger by some... And for Punk Rock Points for others.. But the funny thing is, is that theese major corporations that suffer the loss of a window are just going to replace that window through their insurance plan, Thus - turn the rock throwers into public enemy #1 for however long the NEWS Coverage will last for that segment.
So, what we all need to do is make sure that if this does happen, we need to let the rock throwers know that "THE MEDIA" wont see it that way, But what they will see is a vandalized opinion of "WORDS" Or "WEBSITES" this is why we need organization!
Just Imagine a Breakaway group that totaly exploited the Illuminati... or... "NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM" , Or put exploit pictures of the folowing:
http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/BushGWHorns.jpg
http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/Bush_Devil_Horns.jpg
http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/BushGWHand2.jpg
http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/Qual%20sign%20of%20devil.jpg
You can even litter a bunch of Deception Dollars -> http://deceptiondollar.com
...Or If You HAVE THE MEANS! WE ALL ShOULD BLAST JELLO BIAFRAS NEW SPOKEN WORD (machine gun in the clowns hand [no it is not music]) you can obtain it at any record store... besides i am almost Positive Jello will be there tomarow... Look For Him...
oh and i may copy and post this same post at a later protest so... Dont get mad...
We know that it is done out of anger by some... And for Punk Rock Points for others.. But the funny thing is, is that theese major corporations that suffer the loss of a window are just going to replace that window through their insurance plan, Thus - turn the rock throwers into public enemy #1 for however long the NEWS Coverage will last for that segment.
So, what we all need to do is make sure that if this does happen, we need to let the rock throwers know that "THE MEDIA" wont see it that way, But what they will see is a vandalized opinion of "WORDS" Or "WEBSITES" this is why we need organization!
Just Imagine a Breakaway group that totaly exploited the Illuminati... or... "NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM" , Or put exploit pictures of the folowing:
http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/BushGWHorns.jpg
http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/Bush_Devil_Horns.jpg
http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/BushGWHand2.jpg
http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/Qual%20sign%20of%20devil.jpg
You can even litter a bunch of Deception Dollars -> http://deceptiondollar.com
...Or If You HAVE THE MEANS! WE ALL ShOULD BLAST JELLO BIAFRAS NEW SPOKEN WORD (machine gun in the clowns hand [no it is not music]) you can obtain it at any record store... besides i am almost Positive Jello will be there tomarow... Look For Him...
oh and i may copy and post this same post at a later protest so... Dont get mad...
That's not true. If there is no property damage in Iraq, there will be no property in America. If there is property damage in Iraq, there will property damage in America and to American property overseas, especially embassies and businesses. What's more, no American will ever be safe, anywhere in the world, ever again, least of all in America itself. If there is property damage in Iraq, Americans are going to have to live like Israelis, ie., in constant fear of being murdered by terrorists who can, and will, strike at any time, day or night. That’s how we’re going to have to live. It will damage more than our property, it will damage our spirits. Is that how you want to spend the rest of your life? Afraid?
I didn't think so.
I didn't think so.
There is great power in the masks, as has been shown in Chiapas. It drives the authorities wild and it proclaims a much more basic solidarity. I think having the breakaways at the end of the mainstream marches is wonderfully respectful of that nonviolent tendency, and beyond that nervous liberals should shut the fuck up, and pay the same respect to the black flag folks.
Why isn't having them in a separate location sufficient?
I dunno about that - i haven't seen J'ello biafra on the previous 3 marches. It seems clear to me that they will try a containment move much earlier on this time - i.e. waiting for everyone to be on one block and then forming police lines on both sides. We should take that into account. Why *wouldn't* they try to contain everyone in one place.
so what should we do to avoid this, tomorrow. I know that in the bigger picture everyone should scatter around with their groups of friends, pursuing their own interests, but tomorrow, we couldn't just skip the breakaway, and it's also sort of dangerous to get all spread out, yet it seems automatic that they're going to try to block people from continuing marching where they want tomorrow.
im psyched about tomorow. im looking forwards to all the actions of the day: the permitted march(with micheal franti speaking[or playing with spearhead, hopefully]) of the IAC, not in our name, all the groups that rep legally, their kids and grandparents coming down to protest; the direct action group of the unpermitted march; the black blocers and other revolutionary faction(like the no war but class war contingent); i hope to see puppetistas; and the dude with the GWB mask and the missile-phallus. i hope to see creativity(of new realities) and destruction(of capitalist oppressors). all the groups are necessary to keep the protest safe and effective, and we'll have a good time!
peace, and no more fucking rulers!
peace, and no more fucking rulers!
To the minority bent on property destruction:
Do It On Your Own Time.
I suspect many of you are paid skinhead agents provocateurs unleashed to make headlines and push Middle America back into the Administration's fold.
Where were you on the first two marches?
Do It On Your Own Time.
I suspect many of you are paid skinhead agents provocateurs unleashed to make headlines and push Middle America back into the Administration's fold.
Where were you on the first two marches?
that should generally be a concern, but a provocateur would be someone who actually talks with others in the crowd and tries to encourage them to do the illegal activity too. I haven't observed that so far at any of the 3 breakaways. As far as any illegal activity like chalking on buildings and whatnot, people usually were quickly doing it and running away, and were trying to avoid people focusing on them. I haven't heard anyone say anything encouraging others to join them - at most, people shout out suggestions for turning right or left, or leaving a spot if it is starting to drag on.
Once in Los Angeles, we saw someone who really looked like a provocateur - someone stopped by the activist cooking space and had a garbage can lid and was talking in excited tones, trying to convince everyone to join his group or little army and go do something, and no one recognized him or moved to join him.
Once in Los Angeles, we saw someone who really looked like a provocateur - someone stopped by the activist cooking space and had a garbage can lid and was talking in excited tones, trying to convince everyone to join his group or little army and go do something, and no one recognized him or moved to join him.
The great surge of worldwide protests and their diverse representation have slowed the war hysteria and inspired diplomatic and legal challanges to King G.
We are having an effect. The brakeaways have not , as yet ,added much to the impact of the anti-war movement. You can't stop the war machine with spray paint or by breaking windows. Longterm, revolving occupations: strikes; or focused PD can incapacitate the war machine for a time. All actions should encourage and inspire greated popular participation.
Rise Up!
We are having an effect. The brakeaways have not , as yet ,added much to the impact of the anti-war movement. You can't stop the war machine with spray paint or by breaking windows. Longterm, revolving occupations: strikes; or focused PD can incapacitate the war machine for a time. All actions should encourage and inspire greated popular participation.
Rise Up!
Does Sen Lieberman
Take Us For Fools?
By Brig. Gen. (Ret) James J. David
1-31-3
US President George W. Bush last month accused Baghdad, along with Iran and North Korea, of making up an "axis of evil" bent on backing international terrorism and developing weapons of mass destruction. It seems that Senator Joseph Lieberman has convinced the President that Bagdad is a threat to the United States and launching a military attack seems to be the only alternative. Other close advisors such as Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and the Defense Chairman of the Advisory Board, Richard Perle, are also calling for the bombing of Iraq as the only sure method of destroying this threat.
When Joseph Lieberman says that it's necessary to attack Iraq because Iraq is a threat to the United States, does he really think that smart Americans believe this? Does he really think that Iraq would attack the United States? Senator Lieberman must take you and me for a fool. Let me tell you why this is utter nonsense. No one can launch an intercontinental ballistic missile without the United States instantly knowing its exact location. Therefore, any small country that launches a missile in our direction will know that it is committing national suicide. The warheads on just one of our submarines could cause these small countries literally to cease to exist. How long did it take the United States to defeat Iraq in the Gulf War? The last time I looked it was 38 seconds, and that was with conventional warfare, not nuclear, which the United States has more of than all nations combined times 1000.
If Iraq hit the United States with one or two missiles, despite the loss of life, would strategically be nothing more than a pinprick. It would be like poking a sleeping bear. All you would do is make the bear mad. Therefore, it is extremely unlikely that Iraq or Iran, or for that matter North Korea would trade national suicide for inflicting minimal damage on the United States. And building a force of ICBMs large enough to be [a] real threat is beyond the economic capabilities of those three countries.
So why did Senator Joseph Lieberman convince President Bush to focus on Iraq as a threat? I'll tell you why. It's not the United States that Senator Lieberman is concerned about. We know that Iraq is not a threat to the United States. Iraq is a threat to Israel. Senator Lieberman and other pro-Israelis in Washington don't want anyone else in the Middle East to own Nuclear weapons except Israel. It's Israel, not the United States, that Lieberman is concerned about. And he is willing to risk American lives and American money to insure that Israel is the super power in the Middle East. Isn't it odd that while Lieberman is pushing for a bombing of Iraq, it's the Israelis who are inflicting most of the casualties in Middle East with its current bombing campaign. In just the last 2 days the Israelis have killed 29 Palestinians, and most of them are innocent civilians including children. Iraq hasn't killed anyone since the Gulf War, and that's been 11 years ago. In just the last 17 months the Israelis have killed over 900 Palestinians and have demolished more than 300 homes causing more than 1500 children to become homeless. And the Israelis have been doing this with F-16 fighter jets, M1A1 Abram tanks, 155mm howitzers, Chaparral and Sidewinder missiles, and Apache and Cobra attack helicopters all supplied by the good 'ole United States.
When President Bush talks about the threat of countries with weapons of mass destruction, he always adds ``and our allies.'' Iraq and Iran are not a threat to the United States or to Europe. They are a threat to Israel. North Korea is not a threat to the United States, but the Israelis greatly fear that North Korea will sell missiles to Iran and Iraq. So when Senator Lieberman says that Iraq is a threat to the United States, he really means that Iraq is a threat to Israel. His loyalty isn't so much with the United States; its more with Israel, and that's not right. And you know what? I'll bet most of the people, including President Bush already understands that, but are too scared to challenge him. After all, to challenge or criticize Israel is political suicide. Too many politicians have learned the hard way in that criticizing Israel is like turning the lights off to one's political career. And in the meantime, partly to justify this boondoggle, the United States is embarking on a reckless foreign policy that is more likely to produce war than peace. We should be talking to the Iraqis, the Iranians and the North Koreans rather than making reckless statements on global television that amount to a declaration of war. It can prove to be a deadly mistake to start believing your own deceptions and propaganda.
We are not the Big Daddy Boss of the world, and just because others disagree with our policies or decline to jump when we tell them to jump doesn't mean they are our enemies. And that's why the United States is and will be so vulnerable for more attacks on its own soil. They will be vulnerable and they will be targeted, unless America wakes up. It's time for all of us to know the truth and act accordingly.
James J. David is a retired Brigadier General and a graduate of the US Army's Command and General Staff College, and the National Security Course, National Defense University, Washington DC. He served nearly 3 years of Army active duty in and around the Middle East from 1967-1969.
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=2816
Take Us For Fools?
By Brig. Gen. (Ret) James J. David
1-31-3
US President George W. Bush last month accused Baghdad, along with Iran and North Korea, of making up an "axis of evil" bent on backing international terrorism and developing weapons of mass destruction. It seems that Senator Joseph Lieberman has convinced the President that Bagdad is a threat to the United States and launching a military attack seems to be the only alternative. Other close advisors such as Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and the Defense Chairman of the Advisory Board, Richard Perle, are also calling for the bombing of Iraq as the only sure method of destroying this threat.
When Joseph Lieberman says that it's necessary to attack Iraq because Iraq is a threat to the United States, does he really think that smart Americans believe this? Does he really think that Iraq would attack the United States? Senator Lieberman must take you and me for a fool. Let me tell you why this is utter nonsense. No one can launch an intercontinental ballistic missile without the United States instantly knowing its exact location. Therefore, any small country that launches a missile in our direction will know that it is committing national suicide. The warheads on just one of our submarines could cause these small countries literally to cease to exist. How long did it take the United States to defeat Iraq in the Gulf War? The last time I looked it was 38 seconds, and that was with conventional warfare, not nuclear, which the United States has more of than all nations combined times 1000.
If Iraq hit the United States with one or two missiles, despite the loss of life, would strategically be nothing more than a pinprick. It would be like poking a sleeping bear. All you would do is make the bear mad. Therefore, it is extremely unlikely that Iraq or Iran, or for that matter North Korea would trade national suicide for inflicting minimal damage on the United States. And building a force of ICBMs large enough to be [a] real threat is beyond the economic capabilities of those three countries.
So why did Senator Joseph Lieberman convince President Bush to focus on Iraq as a threat? I'll tell you why. It's not the United States that Senator Lieberman is concerned about. We know that Iraq is not a threat to the United States. Iraq is a threat to Israel. Senator Lieberman and other pro-Israelis in Washington don't want anyone else in the Middle East to own Nuclear weapons except Israel. It's Israel, not the United States, that Lieberman is concerned about. And he is willing to risk American lives and American money to insure that Israel is the super power in the Middle East. Isn't it odd that while Lieberman is pushing for a bombing of Iraq, it's the Israelis who are inflicting most of the casualties in Middle East with its current bombing campaign. In just the last 2 days the Israelis have killed 29 Palestinians, and most of them are innocent civilians including children. Iraq hasn't killed anyone since the Gulf War, and that's been 11 years ago. In just the last 17 months the Israelis have killed over 900 Palestinians and have demolished more than 300 homes causing more than 1500 children to become homeless. And the Israelis have been doing this with F-16 fighter jets, M1A1 Abram tanks, 155mm howitzers, Chaparral and Sidewinder missiles, and Apache and Cobra attack helicopters all supplied by the good 'ole United States.
When President Bush talks about the threat of countries with weapons of mass destruction, he always adds ``and our allies.'' Iraq and Iran are not a threat to the United States or to Europe. They are a threat to Israel. North Korea is not a threat to the United States, but the Israelis greatly fear that North Korea will sell missiles to Iran and Iraq. So when Senator Lieberman says that Iraq is a threat to the United States, he really means that Iraq is a threat to Israel. His loyalty isn't so much with the United States; its more with Israel, and that's not right. And you know what? I'll bet most of the people, including President Bush already understands that, but are too scared to challenge him. After all, to challenge or criticize Israel is political suicide. Too many politicians have learned the hard way in that criticizing Israel is like turning the lights off to one's political career. And in the meantime, partly to justify this boondoggle, the United States is embarking on a reckless foreign policy that is more likely to produce war than peace. We should be talking to the Iraqis, the Iranians and the North Koreans rather than making reckless statements on global television that amount to a declaration of war. It can prove to be a deadly mistake to start believing your own deceptions and propaganda.
We are not the Big Daddy Boss of the world, and just because others disagree with our policies or decline to jump when we tell them to jump doesn't mean they are our enemies. And that's why the United States is and will be so vulnerable for more attacks on its own soil. They will be vulnerable and they will be targeted, unless America wakes up. It's time for all of us to know the truth and act accordingly.
James J. David is a retired Brigadier General and a graduate of the US Army's Command and General Staff College, and the National Security Course, National Defense University, Washington DC. He served nearly 3 years of Army active duty in and around the Middle East from 1967-1969.
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=2816
it would be against the law.
Tweedle-Dumb or Tweedle-Dumber, it makes no difference whatsoever, because the government isn’t in charge. The corporations are in charge.
Tweedle-Dumb or Tweedle-Dumber, it makes no difference whatsoever, because the government isn’t in charge. The corporations are in charge.
Excerpt from: AN OPEN LETTER TO RALPH NADER VOTERS
by Charles Taylor, Salon, March 15, 2003
Dear Nader Voters,
How are you? It's been a long time since we've talked. Almost two-and-a-half years, back during that whole Florida mess. I was pretty nasty to you at the time, complaining about your lack of foresight, your shunning the potential consequences of voting for Nader, your insistence that there would be no difference between a President Bush or a President Gore. I was particularly critical of one Nader voter who, hearing about the Florida voting stalemate, exclaimed "I'm part of history!"
I was wrong. She, and all of you, are indeed part of history. I realized that when I picked up this morning's New York Times. Story after story sang out with examples of the way you've made American history.
Like this one: "Lopsided Vote by Senators Against Type of Abortion." The Senate went and voted against what they call "partial-birth" abortions again. You all know they did it twice before while Bill Clinton was president and he vetoed it. History might not have changed if you didn't help George W. Bush get into the White House. But now, with an anti-choice president, we can count on the bill being signed into law after the House passes it next month. The procedure won't even be allowed when the health of the mother is in danger. If Al Gore had been in the White House, he probably would have upheld Clinton's veto. Thanks to you, history will change.......
by Charles Taylor, Salon, March 15, 2003
Dear Nader Voters,
How are you? It's been a long time since we've talked. Almost two-and-a-half years, back during that whole Florida mess. I was pretty nasty to you at the time, complaining about your lack of foresight, your shunning the potential consequences of voting for Nader, your insistence that there would be no difference between a President Bush or a President Gore. I was particularly critical of one Nader voter who, hearing about the Florida voting stalemate, exclaimed "I'm part of history!"
I was wrong. She, and all of you, are indeed part of history. I realized that when I picked up this morning's New York Times. Story after story sang out with examples of the way you've made American history.
Like this one: "Lopsided Vote by Senators Against Type of Abortion." The Senate went and voted against what they call "partial-birth" abortions again. You all know they did it twice before while Bill Clinton was president and he vetoed it. History might not have changed if you didn't help George W. Bush get into the White House. But now, with an anti-choice president, we can count on the bill being signed into law after the House passes it next month. The procedure won't even be allowed when the health of the mother is in danger. If Al Gore had been in the White House, he probably would have upheld Clinton's veto. Thanks to you, history will change.......
Half of the population didn't vote for a reason. It's a waste of time. The government is a front. The real power is the corporations. They control the food, the water, the power, the land, most means of communication, a big chunk of your time, and the governments, all of them.
100,000 people will be taking public transit...
Boy, that's brilliant. Really.
We are 100% volunteer and depend on your participation to sustain our efforts!
Donate
$210.00 donated
in the past month
Get Involved
If you'd like to help with maintaining or developing the website, contact us.
Publish
Publish your stories and upcoming events on Indybay.
Topics
More
Search Indybay's Archives
Advanced Search
►
▼
IMC Network