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Sacramento Protest (A personal account)
This is my personal account of what happened at the Sacramento Anti-War rally, Feb 15th. I should note that there's a lot of personal opinion in here, so bear with me. =) This is more a thinking out loud than a proper news article.
So, today I went to my first large-scale demonstration. For those who are interested but never have gone (like me up until today), because you didn't know what to expect, allow me to give my impressions of the day.
First thing's first. I found out that the protest was going on by finding a randomly-placed flyer posted on the walls of my College a few days ago. Yes, sometimes it pays to read those things. I thought "hell, I've got to show my support for the anti-war movement, I might as well." So I decided I would go.
Anyways, I got to the town: Sacramento, California. The streets were dotted with people walking to the Capital building: it was already a larger crowd than I had expected, even though I only saw about half a dozen people on the streets as I drove past.
I had looked up one of the meeting sites the day before on http://www.sacpeace.org, and found out that they were meeting in Old Sacramento. Good thing, because that's the only place in Downtown sacramento that I knew where to find (I'm new to the area). I got there, and saw a good 40-50 people from the Modesto Peace Activists branch standing alongside the road. Some were carrying signs, some makeshift caskets to symbolize the dead who would surely come from a war. Others were handing out leaflets, and one woman was holding a loudspeaker and listed off statistics.
I parked the car, and joined the group. They were very friendly in welcoming me even though I didn't know them, and even let me carry one of the caskets. =) We marched out of Old Sacramento and were beginning to walk into the Downtown Plaza when we had our first run-in with the police.
I should note that the reason why we were going through the downtown Plaza is because, for those who don't know Sacramento, it's an outdoor mall of sorts that has a direct path through it to the Capital building and accompanying park. Anyways, 3 cops stopped us at the entrance - they knew we were coming - and asked us to turn away. The woman with the loudspeaker bartered with them, and they agreed to let us pass through if we lowered our signs. So we lowered them, but marched through holding up our fingers as peace symbols. I guess this didn't appease them, because halfway through we ran into more police who said that we had to exit immediately and find another way through. Some people became irate, but a few other calm-headed people talked to them and we agreed to head out and find another path.
Along the way, we met a variety of people. Some honked their horns at us as they drove by. Some cheered and even clapped. Some told us that we should "Remember 9:11" and that we were fools and didn't know what we were doing. Those same irate people I mentioned tended to make snide comments back, but I simply smiled in reply when they came my way. You're not going to win any respect by reproaching those who criticize you, that's what I think. We need to win people over, and we won't do it by mocking them back when they mock us.
Anyways, as we got closer to the Capital I could see that this was far, far bigger than I had ever imagined. We met up with another group, but I'm not sure where they were from, and marched with them to the Capital park. Upon turning the corner, I saw the greatest gathering of people that I have perhaps ever witnessed in person. An ocean of faces, of signs, of flags, of banners and of crosses, stretched from end to end of the two-block long park. The people crowded all the way up the steps to the very doors of the Capital building, and still more poured in from every direction to reach the destination. A great swelling of music - the rhythm of drumbeats - began to fill my ears, slowly growing to an overpowering crecendo of packed noise as we came closer.
From the distance, the drums of protesters were heard louder than the muffled voice of whomever was speaking at the main podium, but you could still discern some sort of voice. On occasion, the voice would stop and everyone in the crowd would erupt into cheers and applause.
I was asked to help hold the Modesto Branch's green banner, and I was glad to oblige. Me and the other flag-holder decided we wanted a better look, so with him and a third person we made our way through the swelling mass to get as close as possible. We ended up about 50 feet away from the main speaker's podium, on the raised area of the stairs, in the dead center of the park. The sight of so many people devoted to one cause left me breathless. I turned, and below me was the great mass of humanity, even larger now than I had imagined it from my entering view. They cheered and applauded. They waved their flags and banners. They shouted protest slogans, and brought the others into a fevered eruption.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing. There must have been ten, perhaps twenty thousand people standing in this place. Standing for peace. It made me proud. I looked closer at the signs, and saw that groups who seemingly should be enemies were standing right next to each other, perhaps silently accepting that their greater goal was the same. A group of Atheists stood next to the podium (as their banner stated), besides people holding up signs about turning "Swords into Plowshares" and that "God doesn't want War." Anarchists stood next to Communists. The Green Party raised the flag over Egalitarians and Buddhists. Palastinians (who, above all the other groups, seemed to want their presence known: they had erected what had to be a 40 foot high Cross, draped in the American flag. I'm not absolutely certain if it was theirs, but that was what I was told by someone in the crowd) stood next to Jewish people (Can you IMAGINE that? But it's true! I saw it with my own eyes), and chanted peace in the same language.
I turned back to hear the speaker. She seemed enraged, and all of her comments were directed more against Bush than against war and the concept in general. I felt like she might have been missing the greater picture, but I supported her nonetheless. I just wish she had seen the greater scope of it all though.
I looked up at the Capital Building. It towered over us all, even over the giant cross. Someone inside was taking pictures: I saw him/her on the top floor, pointing a small camera out the window. I couldn't see the person, but whoever it was had stretched their hand up so that the camera pointed out the window but they were beneath view. I wish I could have that picture that they took, it must've been glorious. They'll probably just use it to start a blacklist or something though, seeing as how only officials were probably in there.
There were many speakers who came up over the next few hours, from many different realms of the peace movement. Some stressed peace as a whole, some stressed individual peace movements. The one I thought was most moving was a Reverend who came to speak. He got the crowd moving like nobody else, and his message was a simple one: God doesn't want us to kill each other. Makes sense to me.
It was then that the Anarchists decided to start making some trouble, and ruin what hope I had built up that day for humanity. They were standing very close to the front, and one of them began to chant "Yes Bush! No Peace!" Which is pretty much the opposite of what everyone was there for. I can't think of why they did it at the time, except later I realized that they're Anarchists: the whole reason why they EXIST is to cause chaos and confusion. Anyways, she got the other Anarchists to start doing it, and that's when the stupidity began. Other people, who were obviously either far too occupied or far too stupid to realize just WHAT it was that they were chanting, began to chant along. About half the crowd chanted "Yes Bush! No Peace!" for about 3 or 4 times before they FINALLY realized what they were saying and shut up. I felt like a tool for even witnessing it, and while it was going on I was telling people around me "stop saying that! Don't you realize what you're saying?". I mean, if they took like 5 seconds to think about what they were chanting before they chanted it, then at least they wouldn't look like total tools. Man, that was the stupidist thing I'd ever seen. It was like when Bugs Bunny got Daffy to say "Duck Season, FIRE!" in those stupid freaking cartoons. I bet the Anarchists got a big fucking kick out of it.
Anyways, so after that I left, more than a bit dissipointed in the stupidity of even the seemingly enlightened masses. I greeted the large (and I do mean LARGE. There must have been 30 or more) police force that was standing across the street as I passed them by. Some in the peace movement think they're the enemy, but in reality they're not. They're members of the Proletariat, just like you and I. Their job is just a lot more dangerous and puts them into unpopular positions. So I figured I'd give them a break and be pleasant to them unlike some of the others. I'd like to think that, if we approach them the right way, they would join OUR side when the class war comes. It happened in Yugoslavia, in Argentina and Peru, it can happen here.
So I went home dissapointed, and then to work. But when I got to work, someone brought something up that made a lot of sense, and in fact restored the faith in humanity that I'd built up by seeing the large group of protesters. "People are stupid sheep no matter what side they're on," he said, "But at least the sheep on the side of peace are TRYING. That's what counts, numbers is what counts. You can't expect people on any side of any conflict to be intelligent. If there was a lot of people there, that's something. That's a start." He was totally right. How could I expect that just because they're on the side of peace, they're any more intelligent or independantly thinking? The important thing is that they were there, and that there was numbers of them. Numbers is important, numbers is what matters most. Intelligence is important, but that can be learned later. At least they're here, they're ready to recieve information.
So, in conclusion, I learned these things for those who want the summary:
1) There really ARE a large amount of people against war.
2) Those people aren't automatically intelligent just for being against war.
3) That's okay, because at least they're trying and they exist to form a group, which in our society is more important than collective intelligence anyways.
4) Anarchists can really ruin a good thing. (Come on, even Anarchists must realize that this is a good thing we're trying to do! I mean, seriously!)
5) No matter how many people around you are chanting something, think for a good 2-3 seconds about what they're chanting before you start chanting it too. They could be chanting that they want to rectally probe anteaters, for all you know, and by the time you start chanting it it's too late to retract it.
6) Yes, in spite of everything I said that was negative, the postive was far better. Please, if you can, join the anti-war protests going on in your area. It's an amazing thing to participate in: you can meet people who have the same thoughts as you, and join them in one cause. And hell, since you're intelligent enough to think before chanting, perhaps you'll help prevent people from looking like idiots when the Anarchists start having their fun.
First thing's first. I found out that the protest was going on by finding a randomly-placed flyer posted on the walls of my College a few days ago. Yes, sometimes it pays to read those things. I thought "hell, I've got to show my support for the anti-war movement, I might as well." So I decided I would go.
Anyways, I got to the town: Sacramento, California. The streets were dotted with people walking to the Capital building: it was already a larger crowd than I had expected, even though I only saw about half a dozen people on the streets as I drove past.
I had looked up one of the meeting sites the day before on http://www.sacpeace.org, and found out that they were meeting in Old Sacramento. Good thing, because that's the only place in Downtown sacramento that I knew where to find (I'm new to the area). I got there, and saw a good 40-50 people from the Modesto Peace Activists branch standing alongside the road. Some were carrying signs, some makeshift caskets to symbolize the dead who would surely come from a war. Others were handing out leaflets, and one woman was holding a loudspeaker and listed off statistics.
I parked the car, and joined the group. They were very friendly in welcoming me even though I didn't know them, and even let me carry one of the caskets. =) We marched out of Old Sacramento and were beginning to walk into the Downtown Plaza when we had our first run-in with the police.
I should note that the reason why we were going through the downtown Plaza is because, for those who don't know Sacramento, it's an outdoor mall of sorts that has a direct path through it to the Capital building and accompanying park. Anyways, 3 cops stopped us at the entrance - they knew we were coming - and asked us to turn away. The woman with the loudspeaker bartered with them, and they agreed to let us pass through if we lowered our signs. So we lowered them, but marched through holding up our fingers as peace symbols. I guess this didn't appease them, because halfway through we ran into more police who said that we had to exit immediately and find another way through. Some people became irate, but a few other calm-headed people talked to them and we agreed to head out and find another path.
Along the way, we met a variety of people. Some honked their horns at us as they drove by. Some cheered and even clapped. Some told us that we should "Remember 9:11" and that we were fools and didn't know what we were doing. Those same irate people I mentioned tended to make snide comments back, but I simply smiled in reply when they came my way. You're not going to win any respect by reproaching those who criticize you, that's what I think. We need to win people over, and we won't do it by mocking them back when they mock us.
Anyways, as we got closer to the Capital I could see that this was far, far bigger than I had ever imagined. We met up with another group, but I'm not sure where they were from, and marched with them to the Capital park. Upon turning the corner, I saw the greatest gathering of people that I have perhaps ever witnessed in person. An ocean of faces, of signs, of flags, of banners and of crosses, stretched from end to end of the two-block long park. The people crowded all the way up the steps to the very doors of the Capital building, and still more poured in from every direction to reach the destination. A great swelling of music - the rhythm of drumbeats - began to fill my ears, slowly growing to an overpowering crecendo of packed noise as we came closer.
From the distance, the drums of protesters were heard louder than the muffled voice of whomever was speaking at the main podium, but you could still discern some sort of voice. On occasion, the voice would stop and everyone in the crowd would erupt into cheers and applause.
I was asked to help hold the Modesto Branch's green banner, and I was glad to oblige. Me and the other flag-holder decided we wanted a better look, so with him and a third person we made our way through the swelling mass to get as close as possible. We ended up about 50 feet away from the main speaker's podium, on the raised area of the stairs, in the dead center of the park. The sight of so many people devoted to one cause left me breathless. I turned, and below me was the great mass of humanity, even larger now than I had imagined it from my entering view. They cheered and applauded. They waved their flags and banners. They shouted protest slogans, and brought the others into a fevered eruption.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing. There must have been ten, perhaps twenty thousand people standing in this place. Standing for peace. It made me proud. I looked closer at the signs, and saw that groups who seemingly should be enemies were standing right next to each other, perhaps silently accepting that their greater goal was the same. A group of Atheists stood next to the podium (as their banner stated), besides people holding up signs about turning "Swords into Plowshares" and that "God doesn't want War." Anarchists stood next to Communists. The Green Party raised the flag over Egalitarians and Buddhists. Palastinians (who, above all the other groups, seemed to want their presence known: they had erected what had to be a 40 foot high Cross, draped in the American flag. I'm not absolutely certain if it was theirs, but that was what I was told by someone in the crowd) stood next to Jewish people (Can you IMAGINE that? But it's true! I saw it with my own eyes), and chanted peace in the same language.
I turned back to hear the speaker. She seemed enraged, and all of her comments were directed more against Bush than against war and the concept in general. I felt like she might have been missing the greater picture, but I supported her nonetheless. I just wish she had seen the greater scope of it all though.
I looked up at the Capital Building. It towered over us all, even over the giant cross. Someone inside was taking pictures: I saw him/her on the top floor, pointing a small camera out the window. I couldn't see the person, but whoever it was had stretched their hand up so that the camera pointed out the window but they were beneath view. I wish I could have that picture that they took, it must've been glorious. They'll probably just use it to start a blacklist or something though, seeing as how only officials were probably in there.
There were many speakers who came up over the next few hours, from many different realms of the peace movement. Some stressed peace as a whole, some stressed individual peace movements. The one I thought was most moving was a Reverend who came to speak. He got the crowd moving like nobody else, and his message was a simple one: God doesn't want us to kill each other. Makes sense to me.
It was then that the Anarchists decided to start making some trouble, and ruin what hope I had built up that day for humanity. They were standing very close to the front, and one of them began to chant "Yes Bush! No Peace!" Which is pretty much the opposite of what everyone was there for. I can't think of why they did it at the time, except later I realized that they're Anarchists: the whole reason why they EXIST is to cause chaos and confusion. Anyways, she got the other Anarchists to start doing it, and that's when the stupidity began. Other people, who were obviously either far too occupied or far too stupid to realize just WHAT it was that they were chanting, began to chant along. About half the crowd chanted "Yes Bush! No Peace!" for about 3 or 4 times before they FINALLY realized what they were saying and shut up. I felt like a tool for even witnessing it, and while it was going on I was telling people around me "stop saying that! Don't you realize what you're saying?". I mean, if they took like 5 seconds to think about what they were chanting before they chanted it, then at least they wouldn't look like total tools. Man, that was the stupidist thing I'd ever seen. It was like when Bugs Bunny got Daffy to say "Duck Season, FIRE!" in those stupid freaking cartoons. I bet the Anarchists got a big fucking kick out of it.
Anyways, so after that I left, more than a bit dissipointed in the stupidity of even the seemingly enlightened masses. I greeted the large (and I do mean LARGE. There must have been 30 or more) police force that was standing across the street as I passed them by. Some in the peace movement think they're the enemy, but in reality they're not. They're members of the Proletariat, just like you and I. Their job is just a lot more dangerous and puts them into unpopular positions. So I figured I'd give them a break and be pleasant to them unlike some of the others. I'd like to think that, if we approach them the right way, they would join OUR side when the class war comes. It happened in Yugoslavia, in Argentina and Peru, it can happen here.
So I went home dissapointed, and then to work. But when I got to work, someone brought something up that made a lot of sense, and in fact restored the faith in humanity that I'd built up by seeing the large group of protesters. "People are stupid sheep no matter what side they're on," he said, "But at least the sheep on the side of peace are TRYING. That's what counts, numbers is what counts. You can't expect people on any side of any conflict to be intelligent. If there was a lot of people there, that's something. That's a start." He was totally right. How could I expect that just because they're on the side of peace, they're any more intelligent or independantly thinking? The important thing is that they were there, and that there was numbers of them. Numbers is important, numbers is what matters most. Intelligence is important, but that can be learned later. At least they're here, they're ready to recieve information.
So, in conclusion, I learned these things for those who want the summary:
1) There really ARE a large amount of people against war.
2) Those people aren't automatically intelligent just for being against war.
3) That's okay, because at least they're trying and they exist to form a group, which in our society is more important than collective intelligence anyways.
4) Anarchists can really ruin a good thing. (Come on, even Anarchists must realize that this is a good thing we're trying to do! I mean, seriously!)
5) No matter how many people around you are chanting something, think for a good 2-3 seconds about what they're chanting before you start chanting it too. They could be chanting that they want to rectally probe anteaters, for all you know, and by the time you start chanting it it's too late to retract it.
6) Yes, in spite of everything I said that was negative, the postive was far better. Please, if you can, join the anti-war protests going on in your area. It's an amazing thing to participate in: you can meet people who have the same thoughts as you, and join them in one cause. And hell, since you're intelligent enough to think before chanting, perhaps you'll help prevent people from looking like idiots when the Anarchists start having their fun.
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Actually, I am curious about who it was that brought the giant cross. I mean, I have my doubt that it really was the Palastinians... I mean, the cross is generally regarded as a Christan symbol. Anyone happen to know who really brought it, or if the person who told me they brought it was right? Either way, it was an impressive display at the least...
So yeah, my apologies in advance if anything isn't perfectly accurate. It's all from where I saw it from and what I heard from the crowd about what was going on.
So yeah, my apologies in advance if anything isn't perfectly accurate. It's all from where I saw it from and what I heard from the crowd about what was going on.
"It was then that the Anarchists decided to start making some trouble, and ruin what hope I had built up that day for humanity. They were standing very close to the front, and one of them began to chant "Yes Bush! No Peace!" Which is pretty much the opposite of what everyone was there for. I can't think of why they did it at the time, except later I realized that they're Anarchists: the whole reason why they EXIST is to cause chaos and confusion. Anyways, she got the other Anarchists to start doing it, and that's when the stupidity began. Other people, who were obviously either far too occupied or far too stupid to realize just WHAT it was that they were chanting, began to chant along. About half the crowd chanted "Yes Bush! No Peace!" for about 3 or 4 times before they FINALLY realized what they were saying and shut up. I felt like a tool for even witnessing it, and while it was going on I was telling people around me "stop saying that! Don't you realize what you're saying?". I mean, if they took like 5 seconds to think about what they were chanting before they chanted it, then at least they wouldn't look like total tools. Man, that was the stupidist thing I'd ever seen. It was like when Bugs Bunny got Daffy to say "Duck Season, FIRE!" in those stupid freaking cartoons. I bet the Anarchists got a big fucking kick out of it. "
I would be shocked if the people that were shouting "Bush Yes, Peace No" were actual Anarchists. There is no way that any Anarchist who has any actual political agenda at all would be saying that. NO Way. Most likely what you saw were some kids who were there not to protest war but to watch as onlookers. These people have nothing to do with Anarchism or Anarchists. They are punks looking to start trouble, nothing more. Just because a group of kids dresses in a "certain way" does not make them Anarchists.
I would be shocked if the people that were shouting "Bush Yes, Peace No" were actual Anarchists. There is no way that any Anarchist who has any actual political agenda at all would be saying that. NO Way. Most likely what you saw were some kids who were there not to protest war but to watch as onlookers. These people have nothing to do with Anarchism or Anarchists. They are punks looking to start trouble, nothing more. Just because a group of kids dresses in a "certain way" does not make them Anarchists.
how do you know they were anarchists?
anarchists do not exist to cause chaos-
they exist to rid society of all forms of authority-
many belive in pacificist means to do this-
anarchists oppose all war and i'm sure most support your efforts to protest.
thanks for the account but please take some time to learn about anarchism.
anarchists do not exist to cause chaos-
they exist to rid society of all forms of authority-
many belive in pacificist means to do this-
anarchists oppose all war and i'm sure most support your efforts to protest.
thanks for the account but please take some time to learn about anarchism.
In Dolores Park, but not on TV. Why weren't we on TV?
How come you're so concerned about the Iraqi Kurds, but not about the Turkish Kurds?
Anyways, she got the other Anarchists to start doing it, and that's when the stupidity began. Other people, who were obviously either far too occupied or far too stupid to realize just WHAT it was that they were chanting, began to chant along. About half the crowd chanted "Yes Bush! No Peace!" for about 3 or 4 times before they FINALLY realized what they were saying and shut up. I felt like a tool for even witnessing it, and while it was going on I was telling people around me "stop saying that! Don't you realize what you're saying?". I mean, if they took like 5 seconds to think about what they were chanting before they chanted it, then at least they wouldn't look like total tools. Man, that was the stupidist thing I'd ever seen
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That is totally funny.
I've been as so many rallies that really required a poet to be along because they kept dredging up unoriginal old chants. So many people seem to write amateur poetry or raps that you'd think that someone could come up with intelligent lines.
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That is totally funny.
I've been as so many rallies that really required a poet to be along because they kept dredging up unoriginal old chants. So many people seem to write amateur poetry or raps that you'd think that someone could come up with intelligent lines.
I was very proud to be part of Sacramento World History. My town made a stand and we represented ourself with many cities country and worldwide.
You're right about that, it was more of a guess that they were anarchists than anything. They were sitting pretty close to a sign that mentioned Anarchists, so I made an association. But they could've just been trouble-makers or general bungholes. =)
"You're right about that, it was more of a guess that they were anarchists than anything. They were sitting pretty close to a sign that mentioned Anarchists, so I made an association. But they could've just been trouble-makers or general bungholes. =)"
how can you write something like this and bash a group of people numerous times throughout your article based on an assumption you made? if it was just a guess that they were anarchists because they were sitting near a sign, couldn't you have just called them a 'group of people' instead of going off about something you obviously do not know much about? since this is published in a place where anyone can read it, dont you think it would be appropriate to revise it?
i mean, in your summary, one of the main points you made was that:
4) Anarchists can really ruin a good thing.
how can you still leave this up now that you know its possible that they were just random people causing trouble?
it's irresponsible and i, for one, am disgusted.
i was enjoying the article (minus the anarchist assumptions) up until the last paragraph where you were basically calling everyone there unintelligent sheep and the only important thing was that they were there. how could you turn an event that was so uplifting and inspiring to so many people into something to be ridiculed?
how can you write something like this and bash a group of people numerous times throughout your article based on an assumption you made? if it was just a guess that they were anarchists because they were sitting near a sign, couldn't you have just called them a 'group of people' instead of going off about something you obviously do not know much about? since this is published in a place where anyone can read it, dont you think it would be appropriate to revise it?
i mean, in your summary, one of the main points you made was that:
4) Anarchists can really ruin a good thing.
how can you still leave this up now that you know its possible that they were just random people causing trouble?
it's irresponsible and i, for one, am disgusted.
i was enjoying the article (minus the anarchist assumptions) up until the last paragraph where you were basically calling everyone there unintelligent sheep and the only important thing was that they were there. how could you turn an event that was so uplifting and inspiring to so many people into something to be ridiculed?
Now, first thing's first. I stated my disclaimer from the beginning. This isn't an article, this was my "off the top of my head" reflections as to what happened from my persepective and the (perhaps flawed) information I recieved from the people around me while I was there.
From what I had heard from people, along with the fact that the ones who had begun the aforementioned chant were at least standing so that they could be considered as under the banner of an Anarchist sign, I drew a conclusion that they were Anarchists. Was I wrong? Maybe. Was I assuming based on the evidence thrown my way? Yes. You're right, that was wrong of me to assume. I mentioned that before, however, and I also mentioned from the very beginning that this was taken entirely from what I was told by those around me and what I could discern by interpreting what was going on. In order to give a portrayal of the events, I had to draw conclusions from what I was seeing/hearing. I think that only makes logical sense.
Second thing, I wouldn't leave that there except for the fact that I seem to be unable to edit it. I had posted this on Saturday, and I still can't figure out if editing it is even POSSIBLE. I had originally posted it as local news too, someone seems to have put it on this front page thing. It's definately not a "news article" though, so it probably doesn't have a place here. It's more of something suited for a forum post. It somehow ended up here, and I can't figure out how to edit it, so don't blame me for that. But here, since I can't edit it, I'll unofficially retract it. "I retract the statement, modifying it to '4) a bunch of crazy a$$holes can really ruin a good time'." Hopefully that works.
Now, about the whole thing of 'unintelligent sheep'. I wouldn't call them unintelligent 'sheep', but I WOULD say that they needed to think for a few seconds before repeating what someone around them says. The fact that they didn't do that, and ended up chanting something contrary to their beliefs several times over, would lead anyone to the same conclusion that I came to. [quote]1) There really ARE a large amount of people against war.
2) Those people aren't automatically intelligent just for being against war. [/quote] Yes, I did say unintelligent. And now that you put in the adjective, one outside of it might have considered them to be 'sheep'. I'm glad the mainstream media didn't cover that little chanting blunder, it would have been quite unfortunate.
However, it cannot be denied that allowing that to happen WAS unintelligent. We need to think before we chant something, no matter how psyched we are about the situation. Just taking a few seconds to think is all I'm asking for, and I only brought it up in hopes that all of us WILL give that few seconds of thought in the future to prevent it from occurring again. See what I mean?
And in regards to your question of if numbers is the most important thing: Yes, of course that's the important thing! The numbers ARE what matters. People aren't impressed when someone says that 50 people protested for some cause. If the number is 10,000, then the general populace begins to listen. I'm sure that the numbers generated in London and Rome turned more than a few heads. That is what it's all about. Of course, that's not to say that the people are unimportant: they are the ones that make up those numbers. That's why the very last point I make is so important: that people SHOULD go to protests. People are what make up those numbers, and every tally in that number is a person who decided to take time out of their life to go to the cause. Granted, putting it into this perspective does seem impersonal, but I feel it's a good way to put it. Statistics, numbers, and such are concrete, and those numbers generated by protests are concrete. Concrete is what we need.
And lastly, if the post here made you feel like I was ridiculing the movement or the protest, then for that I really am genuinely sorry and I apologize. That protest got me pumped: it got me excited about the peace movement again, and on top of that it showed me that there were people locally who were allied to the same cause as I am. My intent wasn't at all to make it look like something to be ridiculed: I just wanted to give a portrayal of events as I saw them unfold, through the information I was given and the access I had as a first time protester. I didn't have the slightest desire to cause ridicule of the protest: I was just telling it as I saw it, both the things that were great and the things that I thought people should really be looking out for. I used colorful description, perhaps, but it was to hammer the point home: especially on the fact that we need to make sure that we don't let troublemakers do the things that they did at this rally.
Anyways, I've said my peace on it all. 1) If I can figure out how, I'll get rid of the Anarchist references because I do agree that they were made with ill-gotten information and assumption on my own part. 2) My comment about intelligence was meant to show that what happened WAS unintelligent of us, and we need to make sure it doesn't happen again if at all possible. 3) Numbers are important, and in my opinion more important than anything else in a protest because numbers are a concrete fact. 4) I had absolutely no intent of ridiculing the event, and it's my hope that it isn't interpreted as such. The parts that did criticize strongly were there as an honest reflection of what I saw and a warning so that others wouldn't make the same mistakes.
From what I had heard from people, along with the fact that the ones who had begun the aforementioned chant were at least standing so that they could be considered as under the banner of an Anarchist sign, I drew a conclusion that they were Anarchists. Was I wrong? Maybe. Was I assuming based on the evidence thrown my way? Yes. You're right, that was wrong of me to assume. I mentioned that before, however, and I also mentioned from the very beginning that this was taken entirely from what I was told by those around me and what I could discern by interpreting what was going on. In order to give a portrayal of the events, I had to draw conclusions from what I was seeing/hearing. I think that only makes logical sense.
Second thing, I wouldn't leave that there except for the fact that I seem to be unable to edit it. I had posted this on Saturday, and I still can't figure out if editing it is even POSSIBLE. I had originally posted it as local news too, someone seems to have put it on this front page thing. It's definately not a "news article" though, so it probably doesn't have a place here. It's more of something suited for a forum post. It somehow ended up here, and I can't figure out how to edit it, so don't blame me for that. But here, since I can't edit it, I'll unofficially retract it. "I retract the statement, modifying it to '4) a bunch of crazy a$$holes can really ruin a good time'." Hopefully that works.
Now, about the whole thing of 'unintelligent sheep'. I wouldn't call them unintelligent 'sheep', but I WOULD say that they needed to think for a few seconds before repeating what someone around them says. The fact that they didn't do that, and ended up chanting something contrary to their beliefs several times over, would lead anyone to the same conclusion that I came to. [quote]1) There really ARE a large amount of people against war.
2) Those people aren't automatically intelligent just for being against war. [/quote] Yes, I did say unintelligent. And now that you put in the adjective, one outside of it might have considered them to be 'sheep'. I'm glad the mainstream media didn't cover that little chanting blunder, it would have been quite unfortunate.
However, it cannot be denied that allowing that to happen WAS unintelligent. We need to think before we chant something, no matter how psyched we are about the situation. Just taking a few seconds to think is all I'm asking for, and I only brought it up in hopes that all of us WILL give that few seconds of thought in the future to prevent it from occurring again. See what I mean?
And in regards to your question of if numbers is the most important thing: Yes, of course that's the important thing! The numbers ARE what matters. People aren't impressed when someone says that 50 people protested for some cause. If the number is 10,000, then the general populace begins to listen. I'm sure that the numbers generated in London and Rome turned more than a few heads. That is what it's all about. Of course, that's not to say that the people are unimportant: they are the ones that make up those numbers. That's why the very last point I make is so important: that people SHOULD go to protests. People are what make up those numbers, and every tally in that number is a person who decided to take time out of their life to go to the cause. Granted, putting it into this perspective does seem impersonal, but I feel it's a good way to put it. Statistics, numbers, and such are concrete, and those numbers generated by protests are concrete. Concrete is what we need.
And lastly, if the post here made you feel like I was ridiculing the movement or the protest, then for that I really am genuinely sorry and I apologize. That protest got me pumped: it got me excited about the peace movement again, and on top of that it showed me that there were people locally who were allied to the same cause as I am. My intent wasn't at all to make it look like something to be ridiculed: I just wanted to give a portrayal of events as I saw them unfold, through the information I was given and the access I had as a first time protester. I didn't have the slightest desire to cause ridicule of the protest: I was just telling it as I saw it, both the things that were great and the things that I thought people should really be looking out for. I used colorful description, perhaps, but it was to hammer the point home: especially on the fact that we need to make sure that we don't let troublemakers do the things that they did at this rally.
Anyways, I've said my peace on it all. 1) If I can figure out how, I'll get rid of the Anarchist references because I do agree that they were made with ill-gotten information and assumption on my own part. 2) My comment about intelligence was meant to show that what happened WAS unintelligent of us, and we need to make sure it doesn't happen again if at all possible. 3) Numbers are important, and in my opinion more important than anything else in a protest because numbers are a concrete fact. 4) I had absolutely no intent of ridiculing the event, and it's my hope that it isn't interpreted as such. The parts that did criticize strongly were there as an honest reflection of what I saw and a warning so that others wouldn't make the same mistakes.
I should add something that, up until now, I haven't been clear enough about I think, so let me clear it up.
Yes, I was completely wrong to assume it was Anarchists, and yes I don't know much about them. I'm still new to this whole game. I'm not going to deny the comment's incorrectness however, because I'm not one of those people who defend themselves as being right even when they know they're wrong. I was wrong.
That being said, let's put the whole Anarchist thing to rest. I didn't come here to pick a fight, I came to share my perspective as a first time protester and give some input as to what I thought people needed to be careful of.
Yes, I was completely wrong to assume it was Anarchists, and yes I don't know much about them. I'm still new to this whole game. I'm not going to deny the comment's incorrectness however, because I'm not one of those people who defend themselves as being right even when they know they're wrong. I was wrong.
That being said, let's put the whole Anarchist thing to rest. I didn't come here to pick a fight, I came to share my perspective as a first time protester and give some input as to what I thought people needed to be careful of.
Okay, so I want to fix this post up and remove the erronious Anarchist remarks. How do I do it? Is it even possible? Does anyone know how?
Colorado, thanks for contributing. People tend to be really touchy about assumptions made about anarchists and anarchism because the media tends to smear anarchists as "violent".
There's no way for you to edit your post. On occasion, the editors will alter a post (for example, if a date or time is wrong and it's important that it be correct and not confuse people), but on the whole, if you need to correct it, just add comments like you did.
There's no way for you to edit your post. On occasion, the editors will alter a post (for example, if a date or time is wrong and it's important that it be correct and not confuse people), but on the whole, if you need to correct it, just add comments like you did.
Oh, okay, good dealin'. And sorry again guys: I've still got a lot of learnin' to do. =)
"From what I had heard from people, along with the fact that the ones who had begun the aforementioned chant were at least standing so that they could be considered as under the banner of an Anarchist sign, I drew a conclusion that they were Anarchists."
"Now, about the whole thing of 'unintelligent sheep'. I wouldn't call them unintelligent 'sheep', but I WOULD say that they needed to think for a few seconds before repeating what someone around them says"
So what youre trying to say is: you wrote that they were anarchists because thats what the people around you said, and that people who repeat things people tell them without thinking about it for a few seconds arent the brightests of folks. hmmm
"Now, about the whole thing of 'unintelligent sheep'. I wouldn't call them unintelligent 'sheep', but I WOULD say that they needed to think for a few seconds before repeating what someone around them says"
So what youre trying to say is: you wrote that they were anarchists because thats what the people around you said, and that people who repeat things people tell them without thinking about it for a few seconds arent the brightests of folks. hmmm
Yes, I said that those who repeat things they hear without thinking about it are doing something unintelligent.
Did I ever say *I* was intelligent? ;)
Did I ever say *I* was intelligent? ;)
Not that I don't deserve some degree of flack for the assumptions I made... but I've posted my corrections and apologized to those offended. Can we all get over this now? Yes, I didn't know what I was talking about. Yes, my "article" that *wasn't even meant to be an article* was wildly inaccurate. Yes, I fully understand now exactly what my inaccurate statements were, and have posted corrections on them.
Can we just leave it at that?
Can we just leave it at that?
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