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Indybay Feature

Israeli Historian tells truth about Israel's creation and possible solutions for peace

by Ilan Pappe -- Israeli Historian
Dr. Ilan Pappe is a Profesor of History at Haifa University. This article is based upon the transcript of a lecture presented by Dr. Pappe to the Right To Return Coalition - Al Awda UK, held at the School for Oriental and African Studies in London Monday 16th September 2002. It is hereby published after receiving Dr. Pappe's consent and editorial remarks.
I have come here to present the comprehensive story of the history of the expulsion and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians in 1948 and its relevance to the present and future agenda to peace in Palestine.

For Israelis, 1948 is a year in which two things happened which contradict each other: On the one hand, it was the climax of Jewish aspirations to have a state or to fulfill a long dream of returning to a homeland after what they regarded as 2000 years of exile. In other words, it was considered a miraculous event that only positive adjectives could be attached to, and that you could only talk about and remember as a very elated kind of event. On the other hand, it was the worst chapter in Jewish history. Jews did in 1948 in Palestine what Jews had not done anywhere for 2000 years prior. The most evil and most glorious moment converged into one. What Israeli collective memory did was to erase one side of the story in order to co-exist or to live with only the glorious chapter. It was a mechanism for solving an impossible tension between two collective memories.

Because so many of the people who live in Israel lived through 1948, this is not a distant memory. It is not the genocide of the Native Americans in the United States. People know exactly what they did, and they know what others did. Yet they still succeed in erasing it totally from their own memory while struggling rigorously against anyone trying to present the other, unpleasant, story of 1948, in and outside Israel. If you look at Israeli textbooks, curricula, media, and political discourse you see how this chapter in Jewish history - the chapter of expulsion, colonization, massacres, rape, and the burning of villages - is totally absent. It is not there. It is replaced by a chapter of heroism, glorious campaigns and amazing stories of moral courage and superiority unheard of in any other histories of people's liberation in the 20th century. So whenever I speak of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948, we must remember that not just the very terms of "ethnic cleansing" and "expulsion" are totally alien to the community and society from which I come and from where I grew up; the very history of that chapter is either distorted in the recollection of people, or totally absent.


Zionist Leaders' Strategy:
Settlement and Expulsion

Now, when you start reading the diaries of the leaders of Zionism, and researching their ideologies and ideological trends since the movement's conception in the late 19th century, you see that from the very beginning there had been the realization that the aspiration for a Jewish state in Palestine contradicts the fact that an indigenous people had been living on the land of Palestine for centuries and that their aspirations contradicted the Zionist schema for the country and its people. The presence of a local society and culture had been known to the founding fathers of Zionism even before the first settlers set foot on the land.

Two means were used in order to change the reality in Palestine, and impose the Zionist interpretation on the local reality: the dispossession of the indigenous population from the land and its re-populating with newcomers - i.e. settlement and expulsion. The colonization effort was pushed forward by a movement that had not yet won regional or international legitimacy and therefore had to buy land, and create enclaves within the indigenous population. The British Empire was very helpful in bringing this scheme into reality. Yet from the very beginning of Zionist strategy, the leaders of Zionism knew that settlement is a very long and measured process, which may not be sufficient if you want to revolutionize the reality on the ground and impose your own interpretation. For that, you needed something more powerful. David Ben-Gurion, the leader of the Jewish community in the 1930s and later the first Prime Minister of Israel, mentioned more than once, that for that [imposing your interpretation on the ground] you need what he called "revolutionary conditions". He meant a situation of war - a situation of change of government, a twilight zone between an old era and the beginning of a new one. It is not surprising to read in the Israeli press today that Ariel Sharon thinks that he is the new Ben Gurion who is about to lead his people into yet another revolutionary moment - the war with Iraq - in which expulsion, and not a political settlement, can be used to further, indeed, to complete the process of de-Arabizing Palestine and Judaizing it, which had begun in 1882.

Towards the end of the British Mandate, there was a need to make these more theoretical and abstract ideas about expulsion into a concrete plan. I have been writing about 1948 since 1980, and for much of that time have been concerned with the question of whether there had or hadn't been a Zionist master plan to expel the Palestinians in 1948. Then I realized, (largely as a result of what I have learned in the last two years), that this was not the right track: neither for academic research nor from more popular ideological research of what has happened in the past. Far more important for ethnic cleansing is the formulation of an ideological community, in which every member, whether a newcomer or a veteran, knows only too well that they have to contribute to a recognized formula: the only way to fulfill the dream of Zionism is to empty the land of its indigenous population.


Mass Ideological Indoctrination
Behind '48 Nakba

Master plans are not the most important component in preparing yourself for that time of a revolutionary juncture or for the contingency plans of how to practically make the idea of expulsion a reality. You need something else: you need an atmosphere, you need people who are indoctrinated, you need commanders in every link of the chain of command who would know what to do even if they don't have explicit orders when the time comes. Most of the preparations before the '48 War were less about a master plan (although I do think there was one). The commanders were busy compiling intelligence files for each Palestinian village for the use of Jewish commanders on all levels, so they would know how wealthy and how important each particular village was as a military unit etc. Armed with such intelligence, they were also aware of what was expected from them by the man who stood at the top of the Jewish pyramid in Palestine, David Ben Gurion and his colleagues. These leaders wanted only to know how each operation contributed to the Judaization of Palestine, and they made it perfectly clear that they did not care how it was done. The expulsion plan worked very smoothly exactly because there was no need for a systematic chain of command that had to check whether a master plan was fully implemented. Anyone who has done any research on ethnic cleansing operations in the second half of the 20th century knows that this is exactly how ethnic cleansing is achieved: by creating the kind of education and indoctrination systems that ensures that every soldier and every commander, and everyone with his individual responsibility, knows exactly what to do when they enter a village, even if they haven't received any specific orders to expel its inhabitants.

Just recently, as a result of reading testimonies not only of Palestinians but also of Israeli soldiers, it became clear to me that the master plan, although significant in itself, pales in comparison to the whole machinery of indoctrination of a community. In 1948, the Yishuv's [the pre-'48 Zionist community] population was a little more than half a million, and before 1948 was even less. Those who had an active role in the military aspects of their community knew precisely what to do when the moment came and not one moment too soon.

But it should be remembered that the plan was successful not only because of the ideological indoctrination. It was done under the eyes of the UN, which had been committed ever since its General Assembly adopted Resolution 181 to the safety and welfare of those 'cleansed'. The UN was obliged to protect the life of the Palestinian people who were supposed to live in the areas allocated to the Jewish State (they were meant to make up almost half of the population of the prospective state). Out of 900,000 Palestinians living both in these areas and additional areas occupied by Israel from the designated Arab states, only 100,000 remained. Within a very short period during the time in which the UN was already responsible for Palestine, a massive expulsion operation took place within a very short period of time.

We have yet to be told the most horrific stories of 1948, although so many of us have been working as professional historians on that. We haven't talked about the rape. We haven't talked about the more than 30 or 40 massacres which popular historiography mentions. We haven't yet decided how to define the systematic killing of several individuals that took place in each and every village in order to create the panic that should produce the exodus. Is this a massacre or not when it is systematically repeated in every village? It is quite possible that some chapters will never be revealed, and many of them do not depend on archives, but rather on the memory of people whom we are loosing each day as vital witnesses. There were not specific orders written, only an atmosphere that has to be reconstructed. A glimpse into that atmosphere can be found on the bookshelves of almost every house in Israel - in the official books that glorify the Israeli army in its activity in 1948. If you know how to read them, you can see how the Palestinians were de-humanized to such a degree that you could rely on the troops, and that they would know what to do.


Israeli and Palestinian Leaders
Accept the American Game:
Shrinking Palestine Physically & Morally

Noam Chomsky was correct in his analysis that we in Palestine/ Israel and the Middle East as a whole were eagerly playing the American game ever since they decided to take an active role in the peace process, beginning in 1969 with the Rogers Plan, and then with the Kissinger initiatives. Ever since then, the peace agenda has been an American game. The Americans invented the concept of the peace process, whereby the process is far more important than peace. America has contradictory interests in the Middle East, which include protecting certain regimes in the area that preserve American interests (therefore entailing paying lip service to the Palestinian cause) while also has a commitment to Israel. In order not to find itself facing these two contradictory agendas, it is best to have an ongoing process which is not war and not peace but something which you can describe as a genuine American effort to reconcile between the two sides - and God forbid if this reconciliation works.

We were playing this game not only because the Americans invented it, but also because the replacement of peace with a "peace process" became the main strategy of the Israeli peace camp. When the peace camp of the stronger party in the local balance of power accepts this interpretation then the world at large follows suit.

Such a process, which can and should go on forever, coached by the only superpower and supported by the peace camp of the stronger party in the conflict, is presented as peace. One of the best ways of safeguarding the process from being successful is to evade all the outstanding issues at the heart of the problem. In such a way it was possible to erase the events of 1948 from the peace agenda and focus on what happened in 1967. The outstanding issue became the territories Israel occupied in the 1967 war. The concept of "territories for peace" was invented simultaneously in Tel Aviv, London, Paris and New York for United Nations Resolution 242. It presents a very concrete variable, in fact about 20% of Palestine, while wiping out the remainder 80% from the formula and juxtaposes it against "peace", which is in fact the never-ending peace process. A process that was not meant to bring a solution, let alone reconciliation. In return for a peace process, the Palestinians would be allowed to talk about and maybe gradually build something of a political entity on 20% of Palestine.

In 1988 [after the PNC accepted UN 242 in Algiers] and 1993 [at the Oslo Accords] even the Palestinian leadership joined this game. No wonder then that after Oslo, the American policy makers felt that they could round up the whole story. They had Palestinian and Israeli leaderships that accepted the name of the American game. This was the beginning of the process, which culminated with the "the most generous Israeli offer ever made about peace" in the Camp David summit in the summer of 2000. Had this process been successful, history would have witnessed not only the expulsion of the Palestinians from their homeland in 1948 but the eradication of the refugees, as well as of the Palestinian minority in Israel, and maybe even Palestine, from our collective memory.

It was a process of elimination that succeeded to a certain extent, were it not for the second uprising. I wonder what would have happened had the second Intifada not broken out. If the Palestinian leadership continued to partake in the ploy to shrink Palestine, physically and morally, it would have succeeded. The second Intifada was trying to stop this. Whether or not it will succeed, we do not know.


Agenda for Peace Activists
in the Shadow of Transfer Scheme

The problem for us as peace activists, is that any coordinated pressure on Israel to stop its plans, can in an absurd way lead the Israelis to accelerate their plans for wiping out Palestine, namely to feel that the revolutionary circumstances have arrived. This is my greatest fear for the second Intifada. I fully support it and regard it as a popular movement determined to stop a peace process which would have destroyed Palestine once and for all. The uprising, and certainly on top of it the coming war against Iraq, have produced in the minds of Israelis - of all walks of life not only within the circles of the Right-wing camp - the idea that "we have reached yet another fortuitous juncture in history where revolutionary conditions have developed for solving the Palestine question once and for all." You can see this new assertion talked about in Israel: the discourse of transfer and expulsion which had been employed by the extreme Right, is now the bon ton of the center. Established academics talk and write about it, politicians in the center preach it, and army officers are only too happy to hint in interviews that indeed should a war against Iraq begin, transfer should be on the agenda.

This brings me to chart what I think are three agendas of peace, for anyone involved in supporting peacemaking in Israel and Palestine, otherwise we may miss the train, so to speak.

The first agenda is the most urgent one: we must all take the danger of a recurrence of the 1948 ethnic cleansing very seriously. This is not just paranoia when I directly - not indirectly - link the war against Iraq with the possibility of another Nakba.

Take it seriously, believe me. There is a serious Israeli conceptualization of the situation in which Israeli leaders say to themselves, "we have a carte blanche from the Americans. The Americans will not only allow us to cleanse Palestine once and for all, they even will help create the window of opportunity for implementing our scheme. We will be condemned by the world, but this will be short-lived and eventually forgotten. This is a rare opportunity to 'solve' the problem."

The second agenda is the immediate one, and that is ending the occupation. We should be very careful in adopting the American, the Israeli Peace Now, and I'm sorry to say, the Palestinian Authority discourse about a two-state solution. Because the two-state solution nowadays is not the end of the occupation but continuing it in a different way. It is meant to be the end of the conflict with no solution to the refugee problem and the complete abandonment of the Palestinian minority in Israel. Anybody who has not learned this after the Oslo Accords has a problem of understanding and interpreting reality. We have to make sure that the idea of peace is not hijacked by people who are seeking indirect ways of continuing the present situation in Palestine. This is not easy because the western media has already adopted within its main vocabulary that anyone who wants to present himself as a peacemaker or as a supporter of peace, must talk about a two-state solution.

Only after the occupation ends can we talk about what it entails. Then it is possible to discuss the political structure best needed to prevent a reoccupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. But it should be clear that the political structure needed to end the conflict is a different one. It has to be one that enables us to end refugeehood and the apartheid policies against the Palestinians inside Israel. We have to be sure not to get caught in the same cul de sac that Yassir Arafat found himself in Camp David when he was asked to equate the end of occupation (when it wasn't even the end of occupation) with the end of the conflict.

Finally, and this is our third agenda, we have to keep on thinking about how to devise concrete plans for making the Right of Return feasible and for making possible the end of discrimination against Palestinians in Israel. These are the two pillars of a comprehensive settlement and they have to be specified. I think it is quite clear that we haven't done that job yet: we are still stuck with slogans of the 1960's, of a secular democratic state. These slogans have to be updated according to the reality of 2002. What was meant in the 1960's by a secular democratic state is a possible vision for the distant future. Our focus on the urgent and immediate agenda should not absolve us from long-term strategies. What people need to hear from us are concrete plans, even if they sound utopian given the situation on the ground. This is a delicate enterprise which entails not only creating a political culture and structure that would rectify past evils, and prevent another catastrophe, but also one which would not inflict another evil, or replace the past evil with a new one. We are not calling for the expulsion of the Jews. We do want the Right of Return. We do want equal rights for the Palestinian citizens.

I think many of us who think in such a long-term span would like to see one state or a political structure which has one state in it. But you cannot disseminate these ideas by just giving highlights, nuggets or slogans. There needs to be a very serious and detailed presentation of such a solution, to convince people of its feasibility.

Finally I want to come back to where I started. In the collective Israeli memory there are two 1948s: one is totally erased, and one is totally glorified. But there is a young generation in Israel - and I have ample opportunities to meet with young audiences - who may prove to have a potential to look differently at the reality in the future. The fact that you have generations of young people who are basically willing to listen to universal principles, provides the opportunity to break the mirror and show them what really happened in 1948, and what is going on in 2002. I think we shall eventually find partners, even to our wildest dreams, on how a solution should look like.

The problem is of course, that while we do this - educate, disseminate information etc. - the government of Israel is preparing a very swift and bloody operation. If it succeeds, even our best dreams and energies would be wasted.
by thanks
We need more articles like these...ie. the truth!
by INDEED
What is really interesting is Ali Khan's obfuscations.
He doesn't address the facts or issues, just tries to present the article as an uneven representation.

20% of the population of Israel is Palestinian. How many of those are Christian not Muslim... huh?

The political "leaders" (butchers like bulldozer Sharon) are scared shitless of an inclusive nation state incorporating all of Canaan. In fact that is why they keep talking about a Jewish State. Meaning a state for Jews and run by Jews exclusively.

A 20% minority does not make a "democracy" either, especially when, as in a recent event, the Palestinian rep is not allowed to be seated.

Lack of Jews in Jordan? That's because they don't want to live there. As regards the lack of Jews in Iraq, they left because of an Israeli propaganda campaign many years ago, and when they did get to Israel, they discovered that they were considered second class citizens. Kushim - a word that has the same connotation as "nigger".

And maybe the Jew hating behavior is a consequence of the remembrance of the massacres of Dar Yassin, Qibyum (1948 the day after UN recognised Israel) as well as Shabra and Shatilla, not to mention the ongoing hatred, campaign of ethnic cleansing and dispossession carried out by Israel against the semitic (Palestinian) population.

Jews don't have a monopoly on "remembrance" and a century old tradition of hate and vengance.
by Norm Schwalm
Re: Ilan Pappe's article, you should be advised that Ilan Pappe is NOT a Professor. His academic rank is Dr, as shown by his particulars on our U of Haifa website, which you are welcome to visit.

Moreover, he is also not a faculty member of the U of Haifa's History department, neither General nor Middle Eastern. Rather he is a faculty member of the Political Science department.

Dr. Pappe's apparent self-adoption of the titles Professor and historian par excellence is apparently not without precedent; in fact, it appears to be a recurring event at conferences and other academic gatherings, where he is presumably not very exact about his title and academic association.

To maintain the integrity of your magazine, you should correct his biography, as it is seems not in tune with reality, as do the views he expresses.

Your readers should consider the possibility that Dr. Pappe's apparently false assumption of an advanced title and academic association, purely of his own volition, may be an attempt to bolster his generally unacceptable rhetoric. Further insight into his behavior should provide some indication as to the 'color' of Dr. Pappe's opinions, the motivation behind his writings, and the veracity of his comments.

NDS
by P. BOWMAN (bowies [at] sent.com.au)
You should send this to the Australian Government. We travelled by bicycle through Israel for over three months in 1986. We stayed and circulated amongst the people from all backgrounds and religions and saw what was developing and were horrified. We even stayed in Jericho by cycling in the back way and we toured Bethlehem and wondered why we were the only western tourists to visit that day. All we could wonder was, "Why, is the Israeli suppressing the Arab like they themselves were suppressed during Hitler's rein? "
by Whatever
A moron above said this:

"Lack of Jews in Jordan? That's because they don't want to live there."

I suppose the fact that it's against JORDANIAN LAW for Jews to live in Jordan has nothing to do with it, right?
by Fighter of scumbags
An misguided fool above said: 20% of the population of Israel is Palestinian. How many of those are Christian not Muslim... huh?

EDUCATED RESPONSE: What's your point?

A misguided fool above said: The political "leaders" (butchers like bulldozer Sharon) are scared shitless of an inclusive nation state incorporating all of Canaan. In fact that is why they keep talking about a Jewish State. Meaning a state for Jews and run by Jews exclusively.

EDUCATED RESPONSE: Indians should run india, muslims should run saudia arabia, americans should run america, catholics should run vatican city, italians should run italy, jews should run israel, correct. What's the problem?

A misguided fool above said: A 20% minority does not make a "democracy" either, especially when, as in a recent event, the Palestinian rep is not allowed to be seated.

EDUCATED RESPONSE: What kind of ridiculous nonsense are you spewing? 100% of the citizens of Israel, regardless of religion, have an equal vote. That makes it a democracy.

A misguided fool above said: Lack of Jews in Jordan? That's because they don't want to live there.

EDUCATED RESPONSE: What? Jordan was created as a "new jews" state. That's kind of why Jews generally don't want to live there, you idiot.

A misguided fool said: As regards the lack of Jews in Iraq, they left because of an Israeli propaganda campaign many years ago,

EDUCATED RESPONSE: Bullshit, I'm related to jews who were from iraq. Jews lost their citizenship, lost their jobs, lost everything, and were given the choice of leaving provided they agreed to leave their possessions behind.

A misguided fool said: and when they did get to Israel, they discovered that they were considered second class citizens. Kushim - a word that has the same connotation as "nigger"

EDUCATED RESPONSE: They were given citizenship, and protected under the law, which is a huge upgrade.

A misguided fool who is now quickly becoming an evil scumbag said: And maybe the Jew hating behavior is a consequence of the remembrance of the massacres of Dar Yassin, Qibyum (1948 the day after UN recognised Israel) as well as Shabra and Shatilla,

EDUCATED RESPONSE: You're really revealing yourself to be a scumbag here. Are you saying it's ok to hate "the jews" as a group today because 50 years ago some jews killed a few hundred people?

A scumbag said: Jews don't have a monopoly on "remembrance" and a century old tradition of hate and vengance.

EDUCATED RESPONSE: No shit, asshole. But you blatantly have issues, and should probably seek some therapy. And get a damn educated, because you're spewing utter bullshit.



by Donnie
An misguided fool above said: 20% of the population of Israel is Palestinian. How many of those are Christian not Muslim... huh?

EDUCATED RESPONSE: What's your point?

A misguided fool above said: The political "leaders" (butchers like bulldozer Sharon) are scared shitless of an inclusive nation state incorporating all of Canaan. In fact that is why they keep talking about a Jewish State. Meaning a state for Jews and run by Jews exclusively.

EDUCATED RESPONSE: Indians should run india, muslims should run saudia arabia, americans should run america, catholics should run vatican city, italians should run italy, jews should run israel, correct. What's the problem?

A misguided fool above said: A 20% minority does not make a "democracy" either, especially when, as in a recent event, the Palestinian rep is not allowed to be seated.

EDUCATED RESPONSE: What kind of ridiculous nonsense are you spewing? 100% of the citizens of Israel, regardless of religion, have an equal vote. That makes it a democracy.

A misguided fool above said: Lack of Jews in Jordan? That's because they don't want to live there.

EDUCATED RESPONSE: What? Jordan was created as a "new jews" state. That's kind of why Jews generally don't want to live there, you idiot.

A misguided fool said: As regards the lack of Jews in Iraq, they left because of an Israeli propaganda campaign many years ago,

EDUCATED RESPONSE: Bullshit, I'm related to jews who were from iraq. Jews lost their citizenship, lost their jobs, lost everything, and were given the choice of leaving provided they agreed to leave their possessions behind.

A misguided fool said: and when they did get to Israel, they discovered that they were considered second class citizens. Kushim - a word that has the same connotation as "nigger"

EDUCATED RESPONSE: They were given citizenship, and protected under the law, which is a huge upgrade.

A misguided fool who is now quickly becoming an evil scumbag said: And maybe the Jew hating behavior is a consequence of the remembrance of the massacres of Dar Yassin, Qibyum (1948 the day after UN recognised Israel) as well as Shabra and Shatilla,

EDUCATED RESPONSE: You're really revealing yourself to be a scumbag here. Are you saying it's ok to hate "the jews" as a group today because 50 years ago some jews killed a few hundred people?

A scumbag said: Jews don't have a monopoly on "remembrance" and a century old tradition of hate and vengance.

EDUCATED RESPONSE: No shit, asshole. But you blatantly have issues, and should probably seek some therapy. And get a damn educated, because you're spewing utter bullshit.



by one democratic state solution
including the right to return for all the Palestinian refugees.

http://www.one-democratic-state.org
by Scottie
>> "Why, is the Israeli suppressing the Arab like they themselves were suppressed during Hitler's rein? "

A person who would say this demonstrates a depressing lack of understanding of history and what hitler did.
by Scottie is in denial like typical Zionist
Everyone recognizes that Israel has been treating the indigenous non-Jewish Palestinian people of Palestine-Israel in the same abusive and racist manner as the Nazis treated Jews, and what's happening in Israel has been going on since 1948, so this is even worse! It's simply unbelievable how many people in America have been hoodwinked by our Zionist-controlled media about the atrocities that our US tax dollars are enabling Israel to commit. Thank God for the internet!
by anti idiot
What a crock of horseshit you show us.
You're a brainwashed idiot with about 40 IQ, Get a life and a job, sucker.

by gehrig
WIndy Out Wendy: "Everyone recognizes that Israel has been treating the indigenous non-Jewish Palestinian people of Palestine-Israel in the same abusive and racist manner as the Nazis treated Jews"

Really, Windy Out Wendy? Then show us the Israeli gas chambers. And then explain to us how the Palestinian population is increasing, not decreasing -- do the Israelis have their Genocidotron switched into reverse?

@%<
by ANGEL
If you remove the faults in the Road Map a Two-State Solution can be Reached....
The Israelis can live in Peace in Israel and the Palestinians can Live in Peace in the West Bank and Gaza if they are allowed to have a State with Reasonable Borders...

For there to be Peace and for there to be a reason for the Palestinian People to stop their fight for Freedom:
We need a Palestinian State with Reasonable Border NOW, If the Road Map that is backed by the U.S., U.N., E.U., and Russia is to work...
Send in a Joint, U.S., U.N. Peace keeping Force to the West Bank and Gaza for the sole purpose of trying to avoid conflicts between the Palestinian and the settlers..
Then have the Biased (biased because they will always be on the side of the settlers) Israeli Military retreat to the pre 1967 Israeli Borders, They can then concentrate their effort on guarding this Border..

Example of a possible solution:
SET THE BORDERS BACK TO 1967...
In return the Refugees have no Right of Return inside the 1967 Israeli Borders..
One complaint that Israel has is that the Right of Return will result in two Palestinian States, (The Right of return is almost impossible any way because the land and homes they lost are now built up with Jewish homes businesses etc…)
The Refugees can be helped to settle somewhere in the new Palestinian State..
The Settlements are now part of Palestine...
If the some 300,000 Israeli Settlers living in Palestine do not like living there, they can move to Israel...
If the 1,000,000 or so Palestinians who now live in Israel do not like living in Israel, they can move to Palestine...
If 1,000,000 or so Palestinians can live in Israel, then some 300,000 Israeli Settlers can live in Palestine if they choose to stay..
If you take Israel, West Bank and Gaza, West Bank and Gaza is only 22% of the total area in Question, This small amount is not too much to ask for millions of Palestinians who must have their freedom to have a peaceful life.
If this solution was implemented there is a good chance the so called terrorist (seen as freedom fighters by the oppressed Palestinian People) would stop their fight, if not they would be very foolish because then Israel would have a just cause to fight back and the U.S. would have a just cause to help Israel fight back.
Otherwise we will continue to have:
Israel: We have to confiscate Palestinian land and demolish Palestinian homes because there are suicide bombers???
Palestine: We have to defend ourselves because Israel is slowly confiscating all our land and demolishing our homes. We have no military to defend ourselves and our land. If we do nothing, we will soon have nothing at all???
The era of colonization is past,. We can not expect to oppress millions of Palestinian People and still have peace.
West Bank and Gaza are only 22% of what is TODAY, Israel, West Bank and Gaza.
PLEASE LOOK AT THE MAP IN THE FOLLOWING WEB PAGE:
The Orange areas are Israeli settlements in the already small 22% that is West Bank and Gaza. What kind of carved up mess will the Palestinian State be unless all the settlements are removed (which will probably never happen) or just make the settlements part of the New Palestinian State (which can happen right now)??
CLICK HERE > http://mondediplo.com/maps/IMG/artoff3260.jpg

Who has died since the Intifada Began:
CLICK HERE > http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

If you ratio the numbers out and compare them to the U.S. Population the numbers of Palestinians who have died would equal over 160,000 when compared to the U.S. Population...
The U.S. went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq because some 3000 or so People were killed in WTC 9-11, Why do we expect the Palestinians to just sit there and do nothing while their land is confiscated and their homes are demolished, leaving countless people homeless.....


by Facts
Some useful facts:

FOr hundreds of years there was a Palestine, a territory, ruled over by Syria and the ottomans and others. It was not a distinct people, it was Arabs, same race and culture as syrians.

In the early 1920's, 80% of Palestine, the territory, became what is now JORDAN.

In the 1940's, around half (give or take) of the REMAINING 20% became Israel. The rest is the west bank and gaza.

For you to go and claim that the "Palestinian people" have been robbed of their homeland is an INACCURATE statement. The fact is, 80% of the "Palestinian homeland" became JORDAN. There's the VAST MAJORITY of your "historical homeland." That is a FACT.

To say that Israel is knocking down some homes is one thing, but to be flat-out WRONG and claim that the "Palestinian people" are losing their "homeland of hundreds of years" is dishonest.

Jews are the people who had no homeland at all. Now they have a sliver of land that is under 1% of the middle east. ARabs control over 99%. The human beings who are currently called Palestinians deserve a safe home and existence like everyone else, but to pretend they had an established country as an established people and Israel came and "stole" it is bullshit. The Palestinian "homeland" is JORDAN, if you want to be educated about this. A second Palestinian country, which I guess will be named Palestine, will someday exist, but not as long as people like Arafat and Hamas are the main leaders and main influence representing the palestinians.

by just wondering
How wuld you feel if I broke into your house, killed a couple of your children, moved into their room and told you I had a right to it because it was only one room?
by Well
To "just wondering"

That happened to just about everyone on both sides in multiple countries over there. It happened to some of the arabs in israel, it happened to almost all of the jews in the west bank, gaza strip, east jerusalem, jordan, iraq, iran, kuwait, egypt, lebanon, syria and yemen. One group of people (the jews) have adapted and gotten over it and moved on with their lives. The other has for decade after decade after decade insisted on just waging a war of terrorism against israel, during periods when they were not occupied (1948 to 1967) and periods when they have been, and in periods when they were given peace offers, and in periods when their intifadas were doing nothing but hurting themselves.


by Well
To "just wondering"

That happened to just about everyone on both sides in multiple countries over there. It happened to some of the arabs in israel, it happened to almost all of the jews in the west bank, gaza strip, east jerusalem, jordan, iraq, iran, kuwait, egypt, lebanon, syria and yemen. One group of people (the jews) have adapted and gotten over it and moved on with their lives. The other has for decade after decade after decade insisted on just waging a war of terrorism against israel, during periods when they were not occupied (1948 to 1967) and periods when they have been, and in periods when they were given peace offers, and in periods when their intifadas were doing nothing but hurting themselves.


by Well
To "just wondering"

That happened to just about everyone on both sides in multiple countries over there. It happened to some of the arabs in israel, it happened to almost all of the jews in the west bank, gaza strip, east jerusalem, jordan, iraq, iran, kuwait, egypt, lebanon, syria and yemen. One group of people (the jews) have adapted and gotten over it and moved on with their lives. The other has for decade after decade after decade insisted on just waging a war of terrorism against israel, during periods when they were not occupied (1948 to 1967) and periods when they have been, and in periods when they were given peace offers, and in periods when their intifadas were doing nothing but hurting themselves.


by Learning
What difference does it make if there was an oganized Palestinian state before Israel's creation? Being a citizen of an organized state is not a prerequisite for owning land and housing. What right did Jews have to go into what is now Israel and take others land? What difference does the size of the land taken make? It was still someone else's land.
by Harding
Show us the beef! Proof!
To equate "the" Jews with "Israelis" is a racist lie.

"The" Jews have not adapted. Israelis have adapted. They adapted by becoming like Nazis.

by more bones
In 1921 when the 'original' Trans-Jordan charter was written by the British, the exclusion of Jews was incorporated. The present Jordanian Charter was re-written in 1953. Can anyone, given the history of the region see any reason why Jordan would want to change this item?

So just what is the point of constantly bringing up this non-issue? If not to distract from Israel's record of being the "only democracy in the middle-east".
by and another 'bone'
I suppose to some of the 'apologists' who continue to post their ignorant and often racist comments in these threads - to 'qualify' an action or behaviour as a genocide - one must first prove the existance of KZs and gas chambers... and not the obviously apparent intent of the oppressors.

by ANGEL
You do not need gas chambers for proof...
You just have to know that Israeli Military drops bombs from the safety of the cockpit of Apache Helicopters on Building and kill innocent children (accidently) because one so called terrorist was known to be there....
by not an angel
Way to go, ANGEL!

You admit innocent children have been killed *accidentally* in bombing missions.
But you still lied calling the Palestinian terrorists "so-called". Let there be no ambiguity about this, they are terrorists. And, more often than not there is more than one being assassinated.

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