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Indybay Feature
CLASS WAR ON THE STREETS OF OAKLAND AFTER THE SUPERBOWL
CLASS WAR ON THE STREETS OF OAKLAND AFTER THE SUPERBOWL
CLASS WAR ON THE STREETS OF OAKLAND AFTER THE SUPERBOWL
After the Oakland Raiders football team lost (48-21) in the Super Bowl yesterday, there was widespread rioting in the streets of Oakland.
Crowds gathered on International Boulevard in East Oakland, taking over intersections and blocking the street. People danced to hip hop music, hopped on cars, and waived Raiders flags.
Police, who had pre-emptively shut down dozens of blocks of downtown Oakland, were quick to respond. Hundreds of police in riot gear moved in, firing volleys of tear gas and wooden bullets in an attempt to disperse the crowds. What had been a party turned into a pitched battle. As one man put it, “Hey we’re all cool here. It’s when the fucking pigs come down and start shooting at us that the shit starts.”
People threw bottles and rocks at police, frequently forcing them to retreat. When groups were dispersed, they reformed several blocks away. A MacDonalds was trashed and set on fire. Several cars were tipped over and burned. A number of police cars had their windows smashed. Benches, dumpsters and debris were placed in the street and set on fire. One police car that attempted to drive through an intersection filled with people was pelted with projectiles as people chanted “Fuck the police!”
The rioters came from a diverse cross-section of Oakland’s working class. Black and white, Asian and Latino, joined together against the universally hated Oakland Police Department. Children as young as eight could be seen hurling rocks toward police lines. “It’s like fucking Bethlehem!” said one man.
The corporate media were there as well. The following was a dialogue between a journalist from the San Francisco Chronicle and a man on the street.
Man: “Can you believe this police brutality bullshit. You guys should go down there.” [points to where the action is.]
Journalist: “No. I was walking around before and some guys said I better watch out, they’re beating up white people. The best place to be is right behind the police lines.”
Man: “No fucking way, I fucking hate the police.”
Journalist: “OK Whatever, you go walk up there then white boy.
Man: “Fuck you this isn’t about race, this is about poor people being fucking pissed off at the police. You’re a fucking racist, a motherfucking racist bastard.”
Journalist: “Hey I’m not racist, my wife is black. So fuck you! You’re real working class.”
Man: “Fuck you! I can’t believe you fucking corporate media fucking scumbags. You come down here--you fucking racists--and hide behind the police lines!”
At this point the journalist got in his car and sped away, narrowly avoiding a shower of rocks and bottles.
In today’s San Francisco Chronicle, the rioters are referred to as “troublemakers” who “weren’t from the neighborhood.”
The rioting lasted well into the night moving from place to place in over 50 blocks of East Oakland. At a late night press conference, the police announced that they had arrested over 25 people. But they were outnumbered and outfought for hours. “They thought this was all they shit,” one youth said during the rioting, “but this is our shit now!”
After the Oakland Raiders football team lost (48-21) in the Super Bowl yesterday, there was widespread rioting in the streets of Oakland.
Crowds gathered on International Boulevard in East Oakland, taking over intersections and blocking the street. People danced to hip hop music, hopped on cars, and waived Raiders flags.
Police, who had pre-emptively shut down dozens of blocks of downtown Oakland, were quick to respond. Hundreds of police in riot gear moved in, firing volleys of tear gas and wooden bullets in an attempt to disperse the crowds. What had been a party turned into a pitched battle. As one man put it, “Hey we’re all cool here. It’s when the fucking pigs come down and start shooting at us that the shit starts.”
People threw bottles and rocks at police, frequently forcing them to retreat. When groups were dispersed, they reformed several blocks away. A MacDonalds was trashed and set on fire. Several cars were tipped over and burned. A number of police cars had their windows smashed. Benches, dumpsters and debris were placed in the street and set on fire. One police car that attempted to drive through an intersection filled with people was pelted with projectiles as people chanted “Fuck the police!”
The rioters came from a diverse cross-section of Oakland’s working class. Black and white, Asian and Latino, joined together against the universally hated Oakland Police Department. Children as young as eight could be seen hurling rocks toward police lines. “It’s like fucking Bethlehem!” said one man.
The corporate media were there as well. The following was a dialogue between a journalist from the San Francisco Chronicle and a man on the street.
Man: “Can you believe this police brutality bullshit. You guys should go down there.” [points to where the action is.]
Journalist: “No. I was walking around before and some guys said I better watch out, they’re beating up white people. The best place to be is right behind the police lines.”
Man: “No fucking way, I fucking hate the police.”
Journalist: “OK Whatever, you go walk up there then white boy.
Man: “Fuck you this isn’t about race, this is about poor people being fucking pissed off at the police. You’re a fucking racist, a motherfucking racist bastard.”
Journalist: “Hey I’m not racist, my wife is black. So fuck you! You’re real working class.”
Man: “Fuck you! I can’t believe you fucking corporate media fucking scumbags. You come down here--you fucking racists--and hide behind the police lines!”
At this point the journalist got in his car and sped away, narrowly avoiding a shower of rocks and bottles.
In today’s San Francisco Chronicle, the rioters are referred to as “troublemakers” who “weren’t from the neighborhood.”
The rioting lasted well into the night moving from place to place in over 50 blocks of East Oakland. At a late night press conference, the police announced that they had arrested over 25 people. But they were outnumbered and outfought for hours. “They thought this was all they shit,” one youth said during the rioting, “but this is our shit now!”
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It wasn't a race war. It was a bunch of ignorant savages with hot tempers and greedy little hands.
While the last comment was typical of the right wing crap clogging up this otherwise fine site, I do have some criticisms of the main article. By reading Indymedia, you'd get the idea that post superbowl riots are the key to anti-capitalist, world wide revolution. But you know what? Football riots happen all the time, and they're not always about class war. When white kids in Ann Arbor run through the streets smashing shit up after a game, nobody cares. Certainly nobody refers to the drunk frat boys as insurectionest class warriors. Yet when black folk in Oakland do it, suddenly the kids at Indymedia are all over it. I was down there at the begining of the riots, dropping off a friend at their house off 65th and International. Folks were driving back and forth, doing donuts, people were starting to chuck rocks at passing cars, getting drunk, and in general, acting like rowdy frat boys. It looked like fun, but political? Didn't look that way to me.
I'm glad to hear that a McDonalds were trashed, and its always good for people to see the cracks in the police's might, but lets see things for what they were. The folks out on the street last night weren't thinking about class war. They werre out there partying, and reporting it as anything but is to miss the point.
I'm glad to hear that a McDonalds were trashed, and its always good for people to see the cracks in the police's might, but lets see things for what they were. The folks out on the street last night weren't thinking about class war. They werre out there partying, and reporting it as anything but is to miss the point.
There's not much to think about. It's pretty simple, really. The ruling class has made war upon us. We fight back. It's as simple as that. It doesn't take thought. It takes action. Thinking too much just wastes time. We've wasted too much time already. the time for class war is now. Stop thinking about it. Just do it. It's better to do it wrong than to do nothing.
"A stumble drives us forward." -- Guimarães Rosa
"REVOLUTION IS THE ONLY FORM OF WAR WHICH IS PREPARED BY A SERIES OF DEFEATS."
I agree that this goes a bit much into seeing what you want to see. Violent people in streets is not always class war. But, there are interesting things about this situation which make it markedly different from a fratboy party gone wild at UM. The historic relationship of Oakland police to poor neighborhoods, for instance. The political relevancy of riots against police brutality in California history. And a lot of other things. But either way, this article puts unnecessary classification on something which doesn't need it. If you are going to get analytic about it, you should go all the way which is beyond the scope of a short article.
This is a really stupid article as a riot is not a class war. Sure, working class people threw rocks at the pigs and businesses but were they participating as conscious members of a class? From my observations, I would say no.
Unfortunately, in the US "race" tends to trump class i.e. when you ask folks about their identity they tend to identify as black, white, asian, Latin, etc. as opposed to lumpenproletariat, working class, bourgie, etc. This was clear in the LA riots when poor blacks attacked slightly less poor Koreans.
Unfortunately, in the US "race" tends to trump class i.e. when you ask folks about their identity they tend to identify as black, white, asian, Latin, etc. as opposed to lumpenproletariat, working class, bourgie, etc. This was clear in the LA riots when poor blacks attacked slightly less poor Koreans.
>>When i was sixteen, I got hit in the head with a brick by a guy who thought I was someone else.<<
So that's what happened.
So that's what happened.
I can't take advantage of someone who got hit in the head with a brick. I really didn't know that happened to you. I'll try to type more slowly since you probably can't read as fast as others. And for your sake, I'll use smaller words.
Other than that, I'll do what I damn well please.
Other than that, I'll do what I damn well please.
Here, you are our guests and you *will* behave according to our customs. you will behave, show respect and not annoy or offend our other guests. Otherwise, you're out of here. And yeah, we can do that
First, look at the arrest statistics. Around15,000 people were arrested. Almost 12,000 were Latino. Most of the rest were Black, but over 1,000 whites and a couple hundred Asians were too.
And at its most intense it began at Florence and Normandie. Koreatown is about 6 miles aways--and in a city so horizontally spread out like LA, that's like the difference between San Leandro and El Cerrito. And before the insurgents reached Koreatown, which they did on while moving as far north as Hollywood Blvd., yes, lots of Korean shops were trashed. But these were in the predominately Latino South Central where there are almost no Korean. And yes, lots of Koreans live in Koreatown, but most of the shop owners have the typical wealth of the petit bourgeios and live in the surburbs, like the Valley. Koreatown is more immigrant and definitely working class. So it wasn't most Blacks and they weren't really attacking poor Koreans. Everyone was attacking everything smacking of class privilege. Even shops putting up sign saying: "Black Owned" were trashed.
Even Newsweek wrote in an article in an issue in the first week of May, 1992: "These aren't race riots, they are class riots." People, like in East-O were fighting against their impoverishment and brutal oppression at the hands of OPD.
Get your facts straight.
Big Bill H.
And at its most intense it began at Florence and Normandie. Koreatown is about 6 miles aways--and in a city so horizontally spread out like LA, that's like the difference between San Leandro and El Cerrito. And before the insurgents reached Koreatown, which they did on while moving as far north as Hollywood Blvd., yes, lots of Korean shops were trashed. But these were in the predominately Latino South Central where there are almost no Korean. And yes, lots of Koreans live in Koreatown, but most of the shop owners have the typical wealth of the petit bourgeios and live in the surburbs, like the Valley. Koreatown is more immigrant and definitely working class. So it wasn't most Blacks and they weren't really attacking poor Koreans. Everyone was attacking everything smacking of class privilege. Even shops putting up sign saying: "Black Owned" were trashed.
Even Newsweek wrote in an article in an issue in the first week of May, 1992: "These aren't race riots, they are class riots." People, like in East-O were fighting against their impoverishment and brutal oppression at the hands of OPD.
Get your facts straight.
Big Bill H.
>>When i was sixteen, I got hit in the head with a brick by a guy who thought I was someone else.<<
That does explain a lot.
That does explain a lot.
too many cops are writing dumb insults and pro war crap. they are distracting activists from organizing on your website. you are not obligated to give "free speech" to people calling for world war 3. they have plenty of outlets already (in the corporate media).
>>What it doesn't explain is why your even dumber than I am. Why is that, do you suppose? Would you care to speculate.
Of course you see it that way. It's understandable. You got hit in the head with a brick.
Of course you see it that way. It's understandable. You got hit in the head with a brick.
Of course you see it that way. It's understandable. You got hit in the head with a brick.
hi-- I'm a white guy who works with a lot of blue collar black people, many of whom live in the flatlands of Oakland. The Raiders were an obvious subject of conversation yesterday. Not one working class black person blamed the police for the riot-- they almost all saw the drunken rioters as well-- drunken idiots. Those dimwits here who see this a "class war" are deeply deeply out of touch with people who WORK FOR A LIVING. Others posting here like nessie who may have a job are to brain damaged with idealogy to realize their point of view represents about 1% of public opinion.
Yet another racist comment by "fresca" was hidden.
That's two today. Come on, fresca, make it three, and I'll hide everything you've ever written. Is that what you want? If so, be my guest. I've been waiting for an excuse to throw you out. Make my day.
That's two today. Come on, fresca, make it three, and I'll hide everything you've ever written. Is that what you want? If so, be my guest. I've been waiting for an excuse to throw you out. Make my day.
``one of the editors``
Playing ``good cop, bad cop``..
Playing ``good cop, bad cop``..
The best way to get around having all of your comments hidden is to just post under a different name every time. Then you can say whatever you feel without reprisal from the editor.
I've been doing this for a long long time. I'm getting pretty good at coming up with names.
I've been doing this for a long long time. I'm getting pretty good at coming up with names.
Annoy us enough, and we'll block your IP. Jump IPs and we'll block your new one. Use an anonymizer, and we'll block it, too. You can't win. You're beaten. Show some class and some sportsmanship and resign now. Don't make me have to humiliate you.
And yeah, I can do that. Want to see how? Give me a reason.
My job here is a lot like shooting skeet. I miss a few, now and then, but not many. But even when I miss one, it's still a hella fun way to pass time. It's even constructive. I'm making the world a better place, one screenful at a time. And of all the things I could be doing right now, to make the world a better place, it's sure beats living heck out of sweating and bleeding.
And yeah, I can do that. Want to see how? Give me a reason.
My job here is a lot like shooting skeet. I miss a few, now and then, but not many. But even when I miss one, it's still a hella fun way to pass time. It's even constructive. I'm making the world a better place, one screenful at a time. And of all the things I could be doing right now, to make the world a better place, it's sure beats living heck out of sweating and bleeding.
>>I see it that way because I have seen no evidence to the contrary.
There's plenty of evidence to the contrary. It's been pointed out to you over and over again. Just because you refuse to see it doesn't mean it's not there. Besides, it's understandable that you refuse to see it. You got hit in the head with a brick.
There's plenty of evidence to the contrary. It's been pointed out to you over and over again. Just because you refuse to see it doesn't mean it's not there. Besides, it's understandable that you refuse to see it. You got hit in the head with a brick.
Right, I'll do you for that.
Actually, it's the International Communist Jewish Bankers Cabal Inc.® They pay me, just annoy you. Plus, I get a bonus every time I every time I convince you to impurify your bodily fluids. So keep drinking that Fresca, and don't read the ingredient list too closely. You might strain your eyes.
you should get a promotion.
To even remotely suggest that the Super Bowl Riots was a “Class War” defies all sense of logic and reason and shows more about the author attempting to push a political agenda, a lack of understanding human nature, and complete negligence on reporting the truth.
The Super Bowl Riot occurred because you had a large young crowd of over zealous people in which the “street party” got out of hand (more likely because of the rioters than OPD). The ransacking of the McDonald’s has nothing to do with “Evils of Capitalism” rather than some people thinking that trashing a McDonald’s would be fun, cool, and an easy mark to steal something. Don’t forget that a Kelly Moore Paint Store was broken in which the paint was used in sideshows and vandalism and Gomes Tire & Service Center was broken into and several rims and tires were stolen.
To suggest the Oakland Riot was “Class War” is an excuse to justify immoral behavior and to use disgraceful behavior to push your own political agenda.
The Super Bowl Riot occurred because you had a large young crowd of over zealous people in which the “street party” got out of hand (more likely because of the rioters than OPD). The ransacking of the McDonald’s has nothing to do with “Evils of Capitalism” rather than some people thinking that trashing a McDonald’s would be fun, cool, and an easy mark to steal something. Don’t forget that a Kelly Moore Paint Store was broken in which the paint was used in sideshows and vandalism and Gomes Tire & Service Center was broken into and several rims and tires were stolen.
To suggest the Oakland Riot was “Class War” is an excuse to justify immoral behavior and to use disgraceful behavior to push your own political agenda.
It was the line about the trees.
Don't push it, fresca. You're a couple of words short getting 86ed. Is that what you want? Bring it on. Make my day.
Don't push it, fresca. You're a couple of words short getting 86ed. Is that what you want? Bring it on. Make my day.
If someone were to “loot” your house or business, they are not stealing. They are recovering the fruits of working class labor, which have been stolen from them by the ruling class.
Thinkl globally riot locally!
Piece of cake. Made in the shade. No problem at all. There’s a bunch of us. We take turns. Elegant, isn't it?
How do you do it?
How do you do it?
and open it up to the world?
OAKLAND (KRON) -- The post-Super Bowl mayhem
not only affected some Oakland store owners: some
of the men and women protecting the streets were
also hurt.
Oakland’s Fire Department sustained $50,000 dollars
in damage and three firefighters were hurt.
There were scores of rocks that were tossed at
Oakland fire rigs and firefighters on Sunday night. One
hit the firefighter who sits in the wide open seat of a
fire truck and steers the back end of Ladder Truck 6.
Only his helmet saved him from serious injury.
Now, when Engine 18 patrols past the looted tire store
its windshield is partially obscured by a spider web of
cracks from tossed rocks.
Back at the station house, a chief's rig shows the
gouges and scratches of being peppered with heavy
rocks, bottles and worse. They were hit by blocks of
concrete, broken bottles and chunks of rebar.
not only affected some Oakland store owners: some
of the men and women protecting the streets were
also hurt.
Oakland’s Fire Department sustained $50,000 dollars
in damage and three firefighters were hurt.
There were scores of rocks that were tossed at
Oakland fire rigs and firefighters on Sunday night. One
hit the firefighter who sits in the wide open seat of a
fire truck and steers the back end of Ladder Truck 6.
Only his helmet saved him from serious injury.
Now, when Engine 18 patrols past the looted tire store
its windshield is partially obscured by a spider web of
cracks from tossed rocks.
Back at the station house, a chief's rig shows the
gouges and scratches of being peppered with heavy
rocks, bottles and worse. They were hit by blocks of
concrete, broken bottles and chunks of rebar.
For more information:
http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=11...
dear editors please kick people like frsca off the site immediately. giving someone three chances to say racist shit is weak. people who post on indymedia are GUESTS on your webpage. kicking them off the site is like kicking someone out of your house for offending other guests (ie it is boring to delve into self righteous right wing chatter). noone wants to hear from these warmonger/amillioniraqibabykillers anymore than we want to hear hitler calling for the extermination of jews and gypsies.
"Back at the station house, a chief's rig shows the
gouges and scratches of being peppered with heavy
rocks, bottles and worse. They were hit by blocks of
concrete, broken bottles and chunks of rebar."
Did anyone rip a flag off one of these rigs? How unamerican of them!
gouges and scratches of being peppered with heavy
rocks, bottles and worse. They were hit by blocks of
concrete, broken bottles and chunks of rebar."
Did anyone rip a flag off one of these rigs? How unamerican of them!
shouldn't that un-unamerican?
The riots in Oakland after the Superbowl were an expression of class war. I can't believe you people who some of you people. i was down at the riots. I expected to see what most anarchists/communists/leftists probably expect to see after a football game: a bunch of random drunk men being assholes. I was completely wrong. As the article makes clear, it was a very racially diverse crowd. What the article doesn't make clear is that it was diverse along age lines and gender lines as well. The kind of shit that was going on was far more advanced class war than anything I have seen in a long time.
True, it may not have had the well-thought-out and well-researched anarchist communist platformist politics that were on some of the flyers handed out at the anti-war breakaway march last week (the last thing I was extremely inspired by). But I was astounded at how articulate people were about the politics of the riots. People talking about taking back communities from the cops. People talking about running their own lives. People discussing together the best way to slow a police advance with burning barricades. People saying how this wasn't about race. I think that some of you lefties who are all down on such forms of rioting should take a good long look at yourselves. Do you really want the working class to emancipate themselves, or do you want to be the official interpreter of the working class, where only when the working class defines itself in terms that are politically correct to you, is it really class war. I got some news for you... the class war is only going to heat up, and if you don't rethink your politics, you are going to be on the wrong side of the barricades some day.
-Revolutionary Anarchist
True, it may not have had the well-thought-out and well-researched anarchist communist platformist politics that were on some of the flyers handed out at the anti-war breakaway march last week (the last thing I was extremely inspired by). But I was astounded at how articulate people were about the politics of the riots. People talking about taking back communities from the cops. People talking about running their own lives. People discussing together the best way to slow a police advance with burning barricades. People saying how this wasn't about race. I think that some of you lefties who are all down on such forms of rioting should take a good long look at yourselves. Do you really want the working class to emancipate themselves, or do you want to be the official interpreter of the working class, where only when the working class defines itself in terms that are politically correct to you, is it really class war. I got some news for you... the class war is only going to heat up, and if you don't rethink your politics, you are going to be on the wrong side of the barricades some day.
-Revolutionary Anarchist
Fresca and One of the editors work for the same goal...
For more information:
http://Fresca and One of the editors work ...
Adam in the Garden of Eden who said “I got more ribs; you got more Broads?”, never got hit in the head with a brick.
Cain, whose wife divorced him because he wasn't Able, never got hit in the head with a brick.
St. Francis whose own father called him a sissy, never got hit in the head with a brick.
Mohatma Ghandi’s mother who said to Mohatma “Eat a cookie. Who’s gonna know”, never got hit in the head with a brick.
King Henry VIII who said to his lawyer “Forget the alimony. I got a better idea”, never got hit in the head with a brick.
Abraham Lincoln who said “A house divided is a condominium”, never got hit in the head with a brick.
Santa Claus’ mother who said “Since he got into the toy business he’s never home for Hanukkah”, never got hit in the head with a brick.
Cain, whose wife divorced him because he wasn't Able, never got hit in the head with a brick.
St. Francis whose own father called him a sissy, never got hit in the head with a brick.
Mohatma Ghandi’s mother who said to Mohatma “Eat a cookie. Who’s gonna know”, never got hit in the head with a brick.
King Henry VIII who said to his lawyer “Forget the alimony. I got a better idea”, never got hit in the head with a brick.
Abraham Lincoln who said “A house divided is a condominium”, never got hit in the head with a brick.
Santa Claus’ mother who said “Since he got into the toy business he’s never home for Hanukkah”, never got hit in the head with a brick.
Class War Class War Class War
Passenger Ignites Seat on Jet at Dulles
By Petula Dvorak
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 29, 2003; Page B02
A 64-year-old United Airlines passenger who had argued with the crew on his flight set his seat on fire at Dulles International Airport last night, officials said.
The incident was one of two unusual events at Washington area airports within about 15 minutes, on an evening of increased overall security because of the president's State of the Union address. A small plane coming from Atlanta reported smoke in its lavatory as it approached Reagan National Airport, but the flight landed without incident.
The Dulles passenger, who spoke Russian and little English, was belligerent at the gate before boarding Flight 383 for Chicago, said Transportation Security Administration spokeswoman Heather Rosenker.
Shortly after arriving at his seat, the man argued with a flight attendant, she said. Tom Sullivan, a spokesman for the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority, said the man then used a lighter to set his seat aflame.
By Petula Dvorak
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 29, 2003; Page B02
A 64-year-old United Airlines passenger who had argued with the crew on his flight set his seat on fire at Dulles International Airport last night, officials said.
The incident was one of two unusual events at Washington area airports within about 15 minutes, on an evening of increased overall security because of the president's State of the Union address. A small plane coming from Atlanta reported smoke in its lavatory as it approached Reagan National Airport, but the flight landed without incident.
The Dulles passenger, who spoke Russian and little English, was belligerent at the gate before boarding Flight 383 for Chicago, said Transportation Security Administration spokeswoman Heather Rosenker.
Shortly after arriving at his seat, the man argued with a flight attendant, she said. Tom Sullivan, a spokesman for the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority, said the man then used a lighter to set his seat aflame.
> When workers "loot,"
>by nessie • Tuesday January 28, 2003 at 11:39 PM
> they are not stealing. They are recovering the fruits of working class labor, which have been stolen from them by the ruling class.
No, they were stealing, Nessie. Don't pretend otherwise.
Anyway, the myth of "class" constructs never held up to rational examination so why pretend otherwise?
Unless, of course, there's something you might want to steal.
>by nessie • Tuesday January 28, 2003 at 11:39 PM
> they are not stealing. They are recovering the fruits of working class labor, which have been stolen from them by the ruling class.
No, they were stealing, Nessie. Don't pretend otherwise.
Anyway, the myth of "class" constructs never held up to rational examination so why pretend otherwise?
Unless, of course, there's something you might want to steal.
Nessie,
I think your observation that the oaktown rioters should have picked "more politcally correct flaws ", has one flaw. WHEN YOU ARE DRUNK OUT OF YOUR SKULL AND COMMITTING RANDOM ACTS OF VIOLENCE. THE CONCEPT OF ORGANIZING A POLITICAL ACTION IS A SKING A BIT MUCH. DO NOT TRY TO MAKE A FOOTBALL, THUG RIOT A CALL TO ACTION.
I think your observation that the oaktown rioters should have picked "more politcally correct flaws ", has one flaw. WHEN YOU ARE DRUNK OUT OF YOUR SKULL AND COMMITTING RANDOM ACTS OF VIOLENCE. THE CONCEPT OF ORGANIZING A POLITICAL ACTION IS A SKING A BIT MUCH. DO NOT TRY TO MAKE A FOOTBALL, THUG RIOT A CALL TO ACTION.
Tell that to the jewish thieves
who Stole real estate from a defensless Population
in Palestine
who Stole real estate from a defensless Population
in Palestine
zero tolerance for racism
by one strike and your out • Wednesday January 29, 2003 at 03:15 AM
dear editors please kick people like frsca off the site immediately. giving someone three chances to say racist shit is weak. people who post on indymedia are GUESTS on your webpage. kicking them off the site is like kicking someone out of your house for offending other guests (ie it is boring to delve into self righteous right wing chatter). noone wants to hear from these warmonger/amillioniraqibabykillers anymore than we want to hear hitler calling for the extermination of jews and gypsies.
Unless of course, your name is "crackerkilla" or you hate Jews, in which case it's perfectly acceptable.
and you say it here, your comment will be removed as soon as we notice it. I, personally, spend at least half an hour a day doing this. I only comment on a tiny fraction of them, but if you want to read my comments on the subject, do a search on my name.
"Cracker" is a difficult term to deal with. Sometimes it is used to mean all white people. Sometimes it is used to mean racist white people. If you're going to use the term, make it clear in the text who you mean, so we'll know whether or not it should be removed.
Personally, I don't take offense, but some people do. If enough of our friends and allies complain about it, we'll adjust our policy accordingly.
"Cracker" is a difficult term to deal with. Sometimes it is used to mean all white people. Sometimes it is used to mean racist white people. If you're going to use the term, make it clear in the text who you mean, so we'll know whether or not it should be removed.
Personally, I don't take offense, but some people do. If enough of our friends and allies complain about it, we'll adjust our policy accordingly.
Nope. Nessie I was not talking about Boston I was talking about Oakland after the SuperBowl.
>>> They are recovering the fruits of working class labor, which have been stolen from them by the ruling class. <<<
I hardly think a working guy who owns a paint store in a crappy neighborhood in Oakland is one of the "ruling class"
I hardly think a working guy who owns a paint store in a crappy neighborhood in Oakland is one of the "ruling class"
Israel Must return all of the land it had confisated from the rightful owners ASAP
what the fuck does Israel have to do with super bowl riots?
Israel Must return all of the land it had confisated from the rightful owners ASAP
The Brits and the Turks don't want the land back
The Brits and the Turks don't want the land back
"Annoy us enough, and we'll block your IP. Jump IPs and we'll block your new one. Use an anonymizer, and we'll block it, too. You can't win. You're beaten. Show some class and some sportsmanship and resign now. Don't make me have to humiliate you. "
There will always be a way to beat your system... And by blocking IP's from a dynamic scope, you eventually wind up denying innocent people access and posting privileges should they receive one of the blocked IP's.
"And yeah, I can do that. Want to see how? Give me a reason. "
Don't be so angry - if anything you should allow all posts to remain on the site... Let the stronger argument stand for itself. Racist comments (while distastful) should be left as examples of ignorance and monuments to stupidity. I don't think that any of those comments *ever* swayed anyone's opinion, except in the other direction...
"My job here is a lot like shooting skeet. I miss a few, now and then, but not many. But even when I miss one, it's still a hella fun way to pass time. It's even constructive. I'm making the world a better place, one screenful at a time"
I don't think censorship in any form makes the world a better place...
There will always be a way to beat your system... And by blocking IP's from a dynamic scope, you eventually wind up denying innocent people access and posting privileges should they receive one of the blocked IP's.
"And yeah, I can do that. Want to see how? Give me a reason. "
Don't be so angry - if anything you should allow all posts to remain on the site... Let the stronger argument stand for itself. Racist comments (while distastful) should be left as examples of ignorance and monuments to stupidity. I don't think that any of those comments *ever* swayed anyone's opinion, except in the other direction...
"My job here is a lot like shooting skeet. I miss a few, now and then, but not many. But even when I miss one, it's still a hella fun way to pass time. It's even constructive. I'm making the world a better place, one screenful at a time"
I don't think censorship in any form makes the world a better place...
I second `filters` assertions...
If one uses the term "cracker" in a sentance such as "That Racist Cracker...." and that is okay, is it then conversly allowable to say "nigger" in a sentance denoting one as a "racist nigger?"
Does the same rule apply for gender? How about that "Racist cunt?"
Just curious as
Does the same rule apply for gender? How about that "Racist cunt?"
Just curious as
If one uses the term "cracker" in a sentance such as "That Racist Cracker...." and that is okay, is it then conversly allowable to say "nigger" in a sentance denoting one as a "racist nigger?"
Does the same rule apply for gender? How about that "Racist cunt?"
Just curious
Does the same rule apply for gender? How about that "Racist cunt?"
Just curious
run it anyway he pleases. We, however, refuse to allow our time, energy and money to by hijacked by our enemies and ese them to promote their evil agendas. They are lucky we allow them to post anything at all here. It's certainly more than they do for us. If the post racist, sexist or homophobic slurs and propaganda, or if they spam, or even if they just tick us off, or worse, annoy our other guests, they're out of here. That's how it is. Get used to it.
If you want to discuss it, don't do it in this thread. It's off topic. Instead, do it here:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/08/139500.php
We do pay attention to feedback. Our policy is evolving and adapring in response to that which comes from our friends and allies. The rest of you are SOL. We don't care what you think. We're not going to let you dictate our policy. We don't even let friends dictate policy. But we do listen to what they have to say. What our enemies have to say, we ignore.
If you want to discuss it, don't do it in this thread. It's off topic. Instead, do it here:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/08/139500.php
We do pay attention to feedback. Our policy is evolving and adapring in response to that which comes from our friends and allies. The rest of you are SOL. We don't care what you think. We're not going to let you dictate our policy. We don't even let friends dictate policy. But we do listen to what they have to say. What our enemies have to say, we ignore.
"Annoy us enough, and we'll block your IP. Jump IPs and we'll block your new one. Use an anonymizer, and we'll block it, too. You can't win. You're beaten. Show some class and some sportsmanship and resign now. Don't make me have to humiliate you. "
There will always be a way to beat your system... And by blocking IP's from a dynamic scope, you eventually wind up denying innocent people access and posting privileges should they receive one of the blocked IP's.
"And yeah, I can do that. Want to see how? Give me a reason. "
Don't be so angry - if anything you should allow all posts to remain on the site... Let the stronger argument stand for itself. Racist comments (while distastful) should be left as examples of ignorance and monuments to stupidity. I don't think that any of those comments *ever* swayed anyone's opinion, except in the other direction...
"My job here is a lot like shooting skeet. I miss a few, now and then, but not many. But even when I miss one, it's still a hella fun way to pass time. It's even constructive. I'm making the world a better place, one screenful at a time"
I don't think censorship in any form makes the world a better place...
There will always be a way to beat your system... And by blocking IP's from a dynamic scope, you eventually wind up denying innocent people access and posting privileges should they receive one of the blocked IP's.
"And yeah, I can do that. Want to see how? Give me a reason. "
Don't be so angry - if anything you should allow all posts to remain on the site... Let the stronger argument stand for itself. Racist comments (while distastful) should be left as examples of ignorance and monuments to stupidity. I don't think that any of those comments *ever* swayed anyone's opinion, except in the other direction...
"My job here is a lot like shooting skeet. I miss a few, now and then, but not many. But even when I miss one, it's still a hella fun way to pass time. It's even constructive. I'm making the world a better place, one screenful at a time"
I don't think censorship in any form makes the world a better place...
enuf whining from republicanmorons about not being allowed to post racist comments. they claim that it doesnt sway peoples opinions in the wrong way. as a matter of fact republican racism is at this time convincing america to commit another genocidal war. dont let activist resources be used by neofascists, no matter how innocently moronic they may seem. the US already has mass imprisonment of its minorities. dont let the pigs dominate the rap with their static.
enuf whining from republicanmorons about not being allowed to post racist comments. they claim that it doesnt sway peoples opinions in the wrong way. as a matter of fact republican racism is at this time convincing america to commit another genocidal war. dont let activist resources be used by neofascists, no matter how innocently moronic they may seem. the US already has mass imprisonment of its minorities. dont let the pigs dominate the rap with their static.
filter Is Right on.,.
Sounds suspiciously like "America, Love it or leave it" - which is something else I'm not a fan of...
I'm to trying to antagonize here - it's just that free speech is free speech is free speech... That includes tolerating wackos from *all* points of view.
Most readers on this site are intelligent enough to determine who's an idiot and who's not - regardless of their political bias.
I'm just saying for this to be a truly open discourse medium, let the arguments stand or fall by their merit.
Re: enemies of this site - On a personal note: I *always* want to know what my opponents are thinking and what their thought processes are... This usually takes some work - you have it delivered!
I'm to trying to antagonize here - it's just that free speech is free speech is free speech... That includes tolerating wackos from *all* points of view.
Most readers on this site are intelligent enough to determine who's an idiot and who's not - regardless of their political bias.
I'm just saying for this to be a truly open discourse medium, let the arguments stand or fall by their merit.
Re: enemies of this site - On a personal note: I *always* want to know what my opponents are thinking and what their thought processes are... This usually takes some work - you have it delivered!
As I see it, SF-IMC is a private organization/club. As a private organization/club they have rights to allow membership and to set rules as they see fit. This is no different in concept to the membership rules and regulations as set forth by either the Boy Scouts or Augusta Golf Club. As a private organization, they have the right to set the rules and membership as they see fit, if you don’t like it one can always play in some else’s sand box.
As to the Oakland Riots, that’s what they were – A Riot not a class war. The simple fact of the matter is that you had a large party atmosphere, which got out of hand. The vandalism and theft at the McDonalds, Kelly Moore Paint Store, and Gomes Tire & Service Center were done by miscreants, not by political activists looking to make a statement about evils of classism. It’s almost sad to see how a person’s political leanings can make one believe in something that’s not really there.
As to the Oakland Riots, that’s what they were – A Riot not a class war. The simple fact of the matter is that you had a large party atmosphere, which got out of hand. The vandalism and theft at the McDonalds, Kelly Moore Paint Store, and Gomes Tire & Service Center were done by miscreants, not by political activists looking to make a statement about evils of classism. It’s almost sad to see how a person’s political leanings can make one believe in something that’s not really there.
I am so tired of listening to People condemn the theft and vandalism of a mcdonald franchize store and at the same breath condone Zionims` theft and vandalism of the personal goods and Properties of Palestinians.
The truth of the matter is that one cannot compare the two as the latter is on a much larger scale.
The truth of the matter is that one cannot compare the two as the latter is on a much larger scale.
NAIDAR = RADIAN
spelled backwards
spelled backwards
I checked the above postings and decided Naidar could not be Radian....there was nothing in his message about fusion, his superior education, and Naidar said it in less than 10,000 words.
Speech is free. This site is not. We refuse to allow our time, money and energy to be hijacked by our enemies and used to promote their sick, evil agendas. These sick, twisted villains who love war and racism are perfectly free to go post their bile elsewhere on the net.
Filter, would you mind expanding on your original post?
Your thoughts are highly apprreciated.
Thankyou.
Your thoughts are highly apprreciated.
Thankyou.
> As I see it, SF-IMC is a private organization/club. As a private organization/club they have rights to allow membership and to set rules as they see fit. This is no different in concept to the membership rules and regulations as set forth by either the Boy Scouts or Augusta Golf Club.
One difference: SF-IMC is not a "membership" organization and does not wish to be one.
One difference: SF-IMC is not a "membership" organization and does not wish to be one.
>I hardly think a working guy who owns a paint store in >a crappy neighborhood in Oakland is one of >the "ruling class"
Anyone who has possessions and exploits workers is a member of the oppressing class and not a worker.
Anyone who has possessions and exploits workers is a member of the oppressing class and not a worker.
LOL What a joke!
Whine about oppression, THEN censor the posts of people you don't agree with. That is pathetic.
You should move to iraq and work for saddam, he could use a few more people like you.
Whine about oppression, THEN censor the posts of people you don't agree with. That is pathetic.
You should move to iraq and work for saddam, he could use a few more people like you.
The only posts that should get the boot are the ones submitted by one of them editors...
This is hilarious. You bunch of shit-for-brains couldn't organize a cat fucking. Imagine, communists trying to decide whether or not a bunch of losers rioting after their favorite CAPITALIST PRO FOOTBALL TEAM lost is a class war or not. As long as you people exist, capitalism is saft.
Anyone who has property?........Where did your computer come from? Does that go for mummy and daddy also.............
"Anyone who has possessions and exploits workers is a member of the oppressing class and not a worker. "
If that worker is a married woman, wouldn't that make her a member of the oppressing class?
If that worker is a married woman, wouldn't that make her a member of the oppressing class?
nessie expounded:
> It's not about how much money you make, or what color your collar is. It's about selling your labor to feed yurself [sic] and your family. What kind of labor doesn't matter. Having to sell it does.
In other words, slavery is preferable.
Or did you have some other idea on how one is to provide for one's existence given the unchangeable reality of nature?
> It's not about how much money you make, or what color your collar is. It's about selling your labor to feed yurself [sic] and your family. What kind of labor doesn't matter. Having to sell it does.
In other words, slavery is preferable.
Or did you have some other idea on how one is to provide for one's existence given the unchangeable reality of nature?
You're my new hero. Rock on.
Nessie....working in return for wages is no "slavery." Capitalism is an extremely expanded version of the barter system. I have something my employer's don't: my experiance and my talent. They are willing to exchange goods for my services....Money. I exchange one good for another...My time and effort are traded for money which is traded for things I can not produce on my own.
Also, if the world listened to your drivel and actually "rose up in revolt to the system," people like me would be dead. Due to the wonders that it capitalism and my parents trading goods for that of their employers, I had access to specialists that are found nowhere else in the world who saved my life as a child.
So the country doesn't work the way you want. Cry me a river.
You have three choices:
1. Shut up and live with it.
2. Vote and try to influence others to vote.
3. Leave. Go somewhere else.
As for revolts and riots, you only show the hypocracy of your beliefs. You whine that you are a slave to a system that is put upon you, so in turn, you wish to enslave others to your way of life.
Sad.
Should the day come of anarchist/communist riots and revolts, I'll be waiting patiently in my house, fully embracing my 2nd Amendment rights.
Nessie....working in return for wages is no "slavery." Capitalism is an extremely expanded version of the barter system. I have something my employer's don't: my experiance and my talent. They are willing to exchange goods for my services....Money. I exchange one good for another...My time and effort are traded for money which is traded for things I can not produce on my own.
Also, if the world listened to your drivel and actually "rose up in revolt to the system," people like me would be dead. Due to the wonders that it capitalism and my parents trading goods for that of their employers, I had access to specialists that are found nowhere else in the world who saved my life as a child.
So the country doesn't work the way you want. Cry me a river.
You have three choices:
1. Shut up and live with it.
2. Vote and try to influence others to vote.
3. Leave. Go somewhere else.
As for revolts and riots, you only show the hypocracy of your beliefs. You whine that you are a slave to a system that is put upon you, so in turn, you wish to enslave others to your way of life.
Sad.
Should the day come of anarchist/communist riots and revolts, I'll be waiting patiently in my house, fully embracing my 2nd Amendment rights.
on comments '654321 run'.
keep typing, you're going nowhere.
Summary executions or kneecapping?
> Keep it up Sam B.
> by bov Thursday February 06, 2003 at 11:14 PM
> keep typing, you're going nowhere.
Gosh, bov, I posted in nowhereland. And you popped up.
> by bov Thursday February 06, 2003 at 11:14 PM
> keep typing, you're going nowhere.
Gosh, bov, I posted in nowhereland. And you popped up.
word has gotten back to me that someone or others has been taking my name in vain,,,
please don't envoke me unless you want me...
ok? kuggs &hisses , sweedish dreams<poof>
please don't envoke me unless you want me...
ok? kuggs &hisses , sweedish dreams<poof>
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