Flashpoints Dec 10, 2003: Chomsky on Israel and Iraq; INS protest, Barbara Lubin

Friday, Jan 10, 2003 - Start Audio
-00:00 Dennis Bernstein: interviews today: with Ai Mara, from the anti-INS protest and press conference today.. with Barbara Lubin just back from Palestine where children are now digging graves for children.. and with Noam Chomsky on the growing alliance between the U.S., Israel and Turkey, and the impending war on Iraq
-01:12 Dennis: Ashcroft issued an order for Middle Eastern and other immigrants to report to the INS.. many are being arrested when they comply.. civil rights groups opposed.. now w Ai Mara of the Not In Our Name project from the protest and press conference at the San Francisco INS offices today.. the big protest in LA last month, 3000 people came out, and the protests all around the country today, and the media that came out, really make a difference.. I encourage you to come out January 18.. and the 27th.. other dates.. more info
-06:35 Dennis: now w Barbara Lubin of the Middle East Childrens Alliance, just back from illegally occupied Palestine.. Dennis: Incredibly disturbing how Israeli soldiers are dressing up as Palestinians and attacking.. Barbara: we watched out the windows as cars with Palestinian license plates pulled up.. out jumped these guys dressed as Palestinians.. knocked on doors, the people inside opened thinking they were Arabs.. then the undercover agents arrested many young men.. also in Ramallah, three disguised men jumped out of a car, pulled out guns, shot three Palestinians, said two were *wanted*, but they weren't, the other an innocent bystander.. this is not really new, ten years ago in Gaza.. undercover agents jumped out of a car, and killed 25 Palestinian workers coming home.. Dennis: Israelis also stealing Palestinian ambulances, hiding in them, and setting up ambushes.. Barbara: about the new graveyard for Pal kids in Dheishah.. one child buried there, a friend of mine, murdered by soldiers.. about the kids digging new graves for each other.. an extremely sad experience.. Dennis: about the children's drawings, depicting the horrors of occupation.. being destroyed emotionally.. and a building militancy.. Barbara: Dheishah as prime example, I would look out in the morning and see dozens of kids breaking stones, getting ready for *battle*.. one afternoon a jeep pulled up, and a hundred kids ran out and held the doors shut and wouldn't let the soldiers out.. a tank roared up and kids jumped off a roof onto the tank.. no fear at all.. a horrific massacre could happen to them.. other kids coming down with 'mutism'.. seeing their families harrassed, beaten up, killed.. they've just stopped talking.. we met with Terry Greenblatt, Allegra Pacheco, the soldiers came to her house two months ago and took her husband away (see Flashpoints Nov 27, 2002).. an Israeli election coming up, Sharon going down in the polls, and Mitzna is going up.. I asked Allegra what she thought.. she said I'm not buying into this again.. remembers when Barak promised peace.. Mitzna supports about the new security wall.. Dennis: longer than the Berlin War.. Barbara: 20 feet high, it is huge.. taking all the fertile Palestinian farmland and putting it on the Israeli side.. taking all wells from one village.. all of their greenhouses.. creating a disaster for the farmers, and they are all farmers.. and this is what Mitzna supports.. the Ibdaa dance troop supposed to come here next month.. they danced here three years ago.. they can't come, under curfew, missed so much school.. and because of the curfew, we couldn't get the visas.. we hope for next June.. but three kids are coming here in next week, will stay with me, and go to SF State to study English.. but one of us has to fly to Amsterdam and see them through customs.. and it was an amazing experience to be with Halibi family, a Palestinian American family, and go back with them to their family homes after 50+ years absence.. (see Flashpoints.net: January 2, 2003).. and I went to Jenin.. more difficult, two new roadblocks.. kept at one by soldiers for an hour and a half.. all the homes leveled.. everytime I go it looks different.. now very eerie, a huge mound of brown dirt, all the broken rubble taken out, like a graveyard.. 78 people buried in a new graveyard.. per capita like thousands of people in Berkeley.. all are depressed, but not a Palestinian we met, that did not say, it is horrible, we have to beg for help, but we are not leaving.. one bride to be sent out invitations.. but if there is a curfew on the appointed day, the wedding will be the first day curfew lifts.. I happened to run into a group of Italians, a theater group.. performed in Ramallah.. three people in the group were disabled.. life was going on.. people find a way in all the nightmare.. we met with peace groups inside Nazareth, Jews and Arabs together.. the fear of transfer, of internal transfer.. great conversation.. can a Jewish state be a democratic state?.. Dennis: a hardening of attitudes?.. about an email I got from a right wing Rabbinical student in Israel.. I asked him what about the young Israeli soldiers refusing to serve in the occupied territories?, what about the Holocaust survivors saying end the occupation?.. he answered that the refusniks should be shot, and that the Holocaust survivors were pathetic old people that should be *set aside*.. Barbara: well, shame on him.. Dennis: Barbara, you'll be speaking at the big anti-war protest next Saturday in San Francisco.. Barbara: I'll talk about the children, and about the reverberating fear.. the horrible implications for the Iraqis, for the Palestinians, and for the Israelis as well.. war does not bode well for anyone.. Dennis: to support Barbara's work, call 510-548-0542 or visit the Middle East Childrens Alliance.. Barbara: we have many supporters from Houston as well as from California.. marches, protests, and demonstrations beginning 11AM in downtown SF, January 18.. and events in Houston as well..
-30:55 music break
-31:40 Dennis: now w Noam Chomsky biting critic of US policy, about the war planned against Iraq.. Noam: nothing is inevitible, and many forces opposed to war.. nothing remotely like these building protests before a war even starts.. and furthermore, it is worldwide.. even polls in Turkey, show 80% against.. the only state lined up is Britain, and their people do not support.. opposition from the Academy of Arts and Sciences.. Dennis: about the collaboration growing between Turkey and Israel.. Noam: 10% of Israel's forces based in southern Turkey.. at US bases.. Israel has a very powerful military.. larger and more advanced than any NATO state except the U.S.. and flying reconissance on the Turkey - Iranian border.. Iraq is regardes as a pushover, but Iran is a big powerful state.. possibly Turkey could take major counterinsurgency operations against the Kurds.. Dennis: about Turkey's genocide against the Armenians.. Noam: never been a problem for Israel.. Israel was directly involved in genocide in Central America.. and in East Timor.. U.S. was restrained by Congress, turned to Israel to provide Indonesia with U.S. jets.. Dennis: is it about oil?.. Noam: if this were happening in central Africa, I doubt the US would be saying anything.. millions of people killed in the Congo war the last decade, is the US doing anything about that?.. US domination of Iraqi would ensure that wealth keeps flowing into white Western hands.. and US military bases in Iraq are coveted.. oil a major issue, but not discussed in the media.. when Iraq broke out of the Western cartel in 1958, Marines send to Lebanon, almost a major war.. a long standing issue, so the timing is primarily domestic.. Bush distracting attention, keeping people in a panic.. during the 2000 election campaign, Iraq not an issue.. but in the 2002 elections, concern suppressed about the economy by talk about Saddam.. this administration has roots in Reagan's.. tax cuts for the rich, a deep deficit, assault on the public, kept in a state of constant panic in the 80's and now (gives details).. states often use this device to control their own population.. second nature to Bush administration officials.. Dennis: Sharon in a bribe scandal, but conditions for Palestinians have never been worse.. Noam: Pals in a desparate situation.. but astonishingly, a feeling among them that they are gaining the upper hand.. for the first 35 years of occupation, Israel almost immune from retalitation for their atrocities in the occupied territories.. but the two societies in an awful ugly terrifying spiral of violence.. they are both in profound trouble.. to Bush, what happens to the Palestinians just does not matter.. the Israeli army new estimates of what happened the first month of the intifada.. fired a million bullets.. casualties 20-1 in favor of Israel.. US didn't care.. when Bush called Sharon a Man of Peace.. even Israelis were shocked, even people that like Sharon.. he has a horrible terrorist record.. (Chomsky details many gruesome war crimes commanded).. and it goes on..
-51:50 Dennis: we're featuring various essays and writings on our website.. I wrote a piece published today in the Baltimore Sun, Justice Twisted In Terror Fight.. about two Maryland citizens.. one a law abiding Arab American Air Force veteran cleric.. the other a felonius ex-Admiral convicted of lying to Congress.. please help circulate this article, thank you..
-54:20 Dennis Bernstein: wrapup - EVENT: anti-Zionist scholar tonight at 390 27th Street, at Broadway in Oakland
-56:15 End today's show. today's review by john lionheart