Open Meeting about January 18th Anti-War Protests

We are from UTAH and we will be coming to the SF Protests!!
Solidarity!

I bet the police are an interested group. That is a great idea though, especially if you keep the above fact in mind. So many people just show up and accept that some others did all the organization. The Bush inaugural protest was a great example - lots and lots of people, liberals and democrats etc., showed up at that, but didn't really question who was running the stage or why everyone was taking a route through the Western addition where no one with power lives, to get to a park where more speeches would be broadcast. If the big group of democrats had just had the ability to vote by voice or feet on what the group should do, I bet a bunch would have supported a different route or different activities.

i'll be working that evening (damn wage slavery,) but that wont stop me from engagin in some of my own direct action on the 18th.
remeber kids, there is more you can do than just attending a march. in fact, you can probably do a lot more by not attending the march, but having a little fun near by.

we had a fun reclaim the streets break-off march at the anti-bush inaugural protests here in sf. maybe 100-200 (?) of us were dancing in the streets, then moved down the block because we were blocking the rest of the march from getting into the park. then we took off down van ness, had the police stop the sound system, then went around the police and continued in the street to market, then left on market downtown, and somehow our #s swelled to like 500(?) and we blocked market and people were coming off the sidewalks and dancing in the street, chanting "down w/ bush!" (i still get excited when i see the video of that.) it was awesome. we wound up playing merry go 'round on the cable car turnaround and disrupting business at the gap. it was all pretty spontaneous. one thing that could've gone better, though, was gathering more people from the park where the speeches were before we took off, since a lot of our friends and other folks who would've enjoyed the action missed out.

anyway, i don't know that there's anything like this planned for the 18th, but i just put it up there as an example of something people can do. you don't necessarily need a sound system - drums are great, other noisemakers - why not run off around town? and you don't have to stay in shopping areas, either - can always hit the neighborhoods, connect w/ people (it helps to have some kind of flyer to hand out and have people willing to talk to people, so you're not just some spectacle)...

(and again, this kind of thing is just one example of what folks can do. creativity is only limited by our imagination and energy!)

we had a fun reclaim the streets break-off march at the anti-bush inaugural protests here in sf. maybe 100-200 (?) of us were dancing in the streets, then moved down the block because we were blocking the rest of the march from getting into the park. then we took off down van ness, had the police stop the sound system, then went around the police and continued in the street to market, then left on market downtown, and somehow our #s swelled to like 500(?) and we blocked market and people were coming off the sidewalks and dancing in the street, chanting "down w/ bush!" (i still get excited when i see the video of that.) it was awesome. we wound up playing merry go 'round on the cable car turnaround and disrupting business at the gap. it was all pretty spontaneous. one thing that could've gone better, though, was gathering more people from the park where the speeches were before we took off, since a lot of our friends and other folks who would've enjoyed the action missed out.

anyway, i don't know that there's anything like this planned for the 18th, but i just put it up there as an example of something people can do. you don't necessarily need a sound system - drums are great, other noisemakers - why not run off around town? and you don't have to stay in shopping areas, either - can always hit the neighborhoods, connect w/ people (it helps to have some kind of flyer to hand out and have people willing to talk to people, so you're not just some spectacle)...

(and again, this kind of thing is just one example of what folks can do. creativity is only limited by our imagination and energy!)

who's calling the above meeting, anyway?

and of course we should all remember - even if we can't make it to a meeting like this we can plan something affinity-group style w/ our friends..

I won't be there, but a Lord of the Rings/fantasy themed bloc would probably get a hell of a lot of attention.

It's extremely popular right now, and so many people sympathized with the Ents and what not.

Hobbits, Ents, Wizards, dwarves, elves fighting back or just another black bloc marching around?

Plus people's identities can still be protected, it won't be so cliche, and it'll probably be a hell of a lot more fun.

If you're concerned about being taken seriously, a lot of people see the "black bloc" (at least in the US) as a huge joke, although most people (non-activists) could care less about it anymore.

How are we going to get taken seriously, if we turn this into a Halloween party/ Hobbit, Star Trek, nude, etc. It makes us look like a bunch of misbehaving juveniles. This is serious business. The important message lets lost in the theatrics. Let's just do business and not get cute.

Halloween party/ Hobbit, Star Trek, nude, etc.

Now wait a mintue, Star Trek can't be just thrown in there like that . . .

Aren't the liberals and the old "left" everyone wants to avoid so much the ones who are so boring and predictable? Militancy is a joke if it isn't militant.

It's just as much of a costume, but only made to look more ridiculous because it comes off trying to be something it isn't. "Look, it's people dressed in black marching around again looking angry and shouting 'Whose streets, our streets!' They must be serious, we should pay attention!"

We're trying to win over the hearts of the public and make a disruption (sometimes). Dressing all in black or just marching around are not the only ways or even the best ways of achieving that.

Silly and useless would be something like, playing in the mud or something.

http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/12/1552852_comment.php#1553028

then, then, you should carry swords and bows and arrows and shit. That was a idea that some people I know had, a million person march against the war with swords. It would be totally bad ass. I think there would be alot less random police harassment amd yeah alot more swords and maybe a few enema combatants thrown in for good measure.
But seriously, taking to the streets and shutting them down is really important, fucking with cars is really important, it is for them that this is happening. Disruption is always really important, cause permits and permitted marches are a great way to contain disent, and they let groups feel like they are owners of a movement cause they bought the permits.

just a little ramble, I personally think that the black bloc and communists are both a bit played out in the imagination/creativity department, but something, I would rather not see anarchist reinacting "deep space 9" episodes. I personally like the pink blocs of Europe that have all the ambiguous ethics & tactics of the black bloc and a hell of alot more style and pizazz. And I think we all know that pizazz is what bring people in, well I think it is better to be a wolf in sheeps clothing than a sheep in wolf's clothing.
Besides how many undercover cops will wear a tu tu?

"fucking with cars is really important"-- tkat

this is the typical middle class moralism of what passes for anarchism. As though some random wage-slave (or even a yuppie) in a car is to blame for the war.

Fuck with cars? This oil thing is insanity. Let us hope that the narcotics-addled amongst us do not forget that oil is competing with DRUGS as the #1 cause of war and violence in the world, including Afghanistan, including Colombia.

Hell, the violence shed over a year's worth of ecstasy trafficking through eastern europe is probably worth at least as many people killed in the world trade center.

If drivers are responsible, druggies are responsible.

The pink bloc is militant? The ones I heard about from Genova and Prague did not seem to be. More like a party and dancing thing. Which is alright, but I dont know if its militant.

great, you've got the mainstream ANSWER march to do it. knock yourself out.

the clothes one wears in a black bloc are a TACTICAL consideration. they arent for the purposes of being cool or stylish or appealing to bystanders or changing the minds of the unenlightened public.

Also, SF protesters are creative to a fault. and the media eats it up, and it cheapens us. they highlight the protesters who baked bread in peace signs and stuck it on a pole, or the dork who dressed his dog in an antiwar shirt. i guess they think when bush sees that, hes gonna laugh so hard he'll back off this war for sure!

I've heard it all before and I've been there. You're preaching to the choir.

I personally think the black bloc has shown little effectiveness within the US as of late and has lost the mystique of militancy it once had, here in the US at least. It seems to have become more of a flag for police to target, harrass, and contain certain individuals, rather than a useful strategy for more aggressive tactics during protests.

But I could be wrong.

There is more than one way to avoid surveillence and protect a person or group's identity. We don't have to steal ideas from Europe (Germany specifically) and incorrectly over exagerrate their importance and usefulness.

But again, maybe that's all we can really do.

"the clothes one wears in a black bloc are a TACTICAL consideration. they arent for the purposes of being cool or stylish or appealing to bystanders or changing the minds of the unenlightened public. "

that is awesome, perhaps you missed the issue of Vice magazine with the fashion dos and don't from Quebec. It was brilliant, anarchist never looked so good. Talk about elitist perspectives though, jeez, shouldn't you be out there guarding your van.
But seriously, if people are thinking tactically, then maybe cultivating more radical tendancies from within the budding piece movement, by say appealling to people and getting them to think about raising the stakes would be a strategic move. People who know me know that I don't have a prolblem with diversity of tactics, but I do have a problem with knee jerk dependance on particular tactics and people with reactionary defense mechanisms to critical thinking.

It might feel oh so cool to bloc up and roll as a single organism, not a bad experience to have per se. But it becomes painfully apparent to those in bloc, the special attention that they garner from the blue bloc and the weird /bad energy they can get from joe protestor. But some of that doesn't matter, given joe protestor may be one of the "courageous middle of the road americans" who are finally able to be out in the streets against this war. blah, people are really using desciptions like that for the moderate outpouring of antiwar sentiment. I don't think that those people are going to jump to the baracades or suddenly have a breakthrough and go home and smash their tvs or the state. But I do think that by intentionally seperating yourselve from other poeple, you just never know what your potential as organizers can be.
I think the bloc makes very good sense for during the war actions, especially at night. But only use the cross walks, cause it is harder for cars to see you at night when you are wearing black, so maybe you should all have bike lights on.
But i also think that doing the bloc is a good practise excercise in building good street decision making and getting comfortable in being the center of police attention.
As for Cars... Cities should be car free. 70% of roadways should be depaved, and used for farming. Basically if you cannot deal with the future, you need to get the hell off the planet.
From the oil industry, oil is only expected to last for the next 90 years. It is a finite resource. Some dreams die hard, but they still die.

Roads will probably go away one day, just like trains went away.

The problem is people who advocate attacking cars because of this. Its clearly ridiculous.

These are strange times when smoking a joint means you support terrorists. Driving a car means you support terrorists. Protesting means you support terrorists.

We are getting it from the right-wing, the left-wing, everywhere.

What the fuck is wrong with these delusional people?

You're getting it from the right, left and everywhere, and THEY are the delusional people? When 10 people tell you you're drunk, you'd better lie down.

means you're supporting terrorism.

Seems to me that outlawing a native,naturally growing plant and driving it into criminal distribution is more supportive of terrorism than using. BTW, most marijuana is grown domestically, so I don't see the connection anyway

Click here:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/01/1556661_comment.php#1560518

The problem with demonstrations is that they are now a part of the landscape. Everytime a new war is initation, part of the contingency planning is for domestic opposition. If our lords and masters can portray that opposition as the "looney Left", then they score points.

We want workers and their families marching against this war. Hence we do not want to alienate them. We want our representatives to vote against this war, hence we do not want to embarrass them. Finally, we want to build a coalition that includes people who are far to our Right, yet who are appalled by this administration's war-mongering. We want them to take us seriously as co-belligerents.

If we dress and act as if we are caught in a juvenile quasi-60's time-warp, we will not be taken seriously. Personally I think that all attendees should dress as if they were going to an IRS hearing or to court. As I doubt that will happen, at least I recommend that there be a minimum of music. no puppets, and no costumes. This is not Mardi Gras.

We are a bunch of pissed off Americans who want their country back from an illegal junta, who is trying to wage a war for profit. We should act the part.

I say we stop looking to the 60's for inspiration, and reconsider the militant struggles and attitudes of the 30's. Those struggles and tactics are far more relevant to our situation.

Here is my ideal demonstration:

Thousands of people march silently down Market Street, dressed in funereal attire - not Goth - but actual black suits and so forth. And by march, I mean march-in-step. The only sound heard is thousands of feet marching.

There are no placards, no signs, no chants, but the marchers are carrying coffins for each Iraqi child killed by sanctions. The average person has a hard time with the number 500,000. Hence the sight of 500,000 child-size coffins would be an unforgettable image.

This would not be a fun. It would however be powerful. This is the direction that we need to go.

I agree with the last comment *mostly*. The part about music is where you show how you go down a path of idiocy when you start thinking like a bureaucrat. Normal people don't like music? The point is *you* don't like music and you think that everyone thinks like you.

They just don't like the incessant beating of drums througout the march.

They just don't like the incessant beating of drums througout the march.

They just don't like the incessant beating of drums througout the march.

I am a freelance journalist writing an article on how Jews fit into the anti-war movement when rallies often contain pro-Palestinian sentiment. I am trying to answer the question, "Can someone be pro-Israeli and against the war with Iraq at the same time?"

Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail me at dan_freed [at] hotmail.com with your comments.

Daniel Freed is a correspondent for the neo-conservative Jewish Bulletin of San Francisco. Understand that your words to him may well be used to disparage the anti-war movement and the anti-zionist left.

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk021108/sf28.shtml

Go to Mea Shearim. Everbody there is opposed to Zionism and the Zionist wars. If you can't afford a ticket, or if you are prejudiced against orthodox Jews or anti-semite, visit the Kehila synagogue in Berkeley. Everyone there is opposed to the war. Need more? Check out the Tikkun Comunity in SF.

Not enuf you say? Go talk to the JVP people.

http://www.netureikartauk.org/
http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/50/act/bg/bg3.htm
http://www.tikkun.org/community
http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

Apparent Zionist agent Daniel Freed asks, "Can someone be pro-Israeli and against the war with Iraq at the same time?"

There are two ways this can happen:

1) The person hasn't a clue about what Israel is about.

2) The person, supports Zionism and Israeli aparthied, but thinks that a war against Iraq isn't in the interests of Israel. This would be similar to the many supporters of AmeriKKKan imperialism who think that this particular war is not going to be good for the empire.

The people in group 1 can be educated, but no political concessions should be made to them. The people in group 2 are our enemies. We shouldn't waste our time with them, except to expose them.

Well that was refreshing. The meeting was just sort of an orientation as to...well, as to...

sort of about the demo, sort of about what demos in the bay area can be expected to be like...

The one good thing about IAC/Answer/NPC/Workers World events/meetings is that at least when you leave you have flyers, a sense of purpose- you will go spread their word! The only thing we got from this meeting was that we could show up and help flyer at the demo. No decision making, nothing to really see if we had any sense of unity about anything...

I'd wished I had more time . . . . but now I'm glad I don't. I went to a sign-painting party / open mic tonight, but never got around to painting any signs, just socializing. Even though it is important to have signs and do all the stuff, it also feels overwhelming at these huge demos for me. Our little Bush Did It! marches were a lot of fun because there was a small group of people I mostly knew or had seen around, people with instruments showed up who we didn't know, we had original 9/11 literature created by a 9/11 researcher, people on the sidewalks were dumbstruck (some standing like statues on Haight St, it was hilarious), and we had such a good time making those props. But with these huge Answer marches it's like prop mania, like overdosing on props, like prop-opium, like sign heaven . . . but, yes, of course, necessary. I just feel sort of nauseous afterwards . ..

But too bad to hear about this meeting. It's a learning process, and we're often feeling around in the dark. Everyone who is doing the work right now deserves huge credit and breaks. On the news tonight they showed answer people passing the boxes from person to person. It's a huge job so thanks to everyone taking it on.

"All for one, and one for all, and me for you and three for five, and six for a dollar." -- Marx

"The only thing we got from this meeting was that we could show up and help flyer at the demo. No decision making, nothing to really see if we had any sense of unity about anything..."

Decision making and unity? To me, this wasn't the point of the meeting. It was only to create an infrastructure for networking, announcements, etc for people or groups of people doing something besides only the IAC march tomorrow.

To that extent, I think it worked really well. For whatever reason in 2003 SF Bay Area, a lot of local groups who have some things in common have expressed a general distaste for formal organization, membership, whatever. Like it or not, that is the situation.

And so to have a general networking/information meeting, if only to facilitate networking and relevant information sharing, I think that is great.

The slightly more formal version of that would be the spokescouncil, which does have mechanisms for making decisions and things like that. But, I think that would have been overkill given what people had to say. They weren't forming some kind of broad strategy or something, they were just networking, checking out the situation, etc. Spokescouncils seem to be most useful when there are more groups, and you are planning for something which is definitely going to be strange (like quebec).

I liked it. If tomorrow's protests give us sufficient momentum or optimism in what is going on right now, we could really be a part of a historic loss to the almost-extinct Nixon-era military industrialists. That's not everything, but its a lot.