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Indybay Feature

Florida Men Strip for Peace

by FSN
Inspired by the brave women of Marine County, California, who created an image of the word "Peace," with their nude bodies, Florida men gathered to create their own male statement for peace.
peacemen.gif
On December 21,2002, near Gainesville, Florida, 22 men posed naked to send a stunning Peace message to the American people and the war administration. Braving the cold, these men from Fort Myers to Gainesville, gathered together on a hillside to do the unthinkable: To Bare it all for Peace.

Deeply troubled by the looming war against Iraq, these serious peace advocates determined to express their heartfelt desire for peace, by crafting the word "PEACE" and the Peace Sign with their nude bodies. These images were captured on film by renowned photojournalist and nature photographer, John Moran.

The statement of this photo moment was enriched by the fact that many of the men who came together to create these images were previously unknown to each other. They were bound together by only one thing; their united desire to stop the American war machine. " What we did was outrageous, because war is outrageous," exclaimed Bob Ellenberg. "All the peace loving people in the world need to see what we have done." This depth of passion was echoed by Frank Gubasta, who said, "I'd die for a better/peaceful world for my sons to grow up in." These men intended for their act to be a dramatic statement and they want the chance to express themselves about war and peace. A candidate for Tampa City Council, Kelly Benjamin, says, "I'd love to talk with anyone about peaceful alternatives to this stupid war."

As the photo session took place, the act took on a somber aspect. One of the participants, Jim Cameron, describes the scene as the men moved to take up their assigned positions. "As we walked in a broken group through the tall grass, I was deeply touched at the sight of everyone against the hills, trees, sunlight and blue sky. The group was composed of young college students, old hippies, alternative culture folks and Viet Nam vets. But the sight of everyone wading through the tall grass was so archetypical and I guess reminiscent of the tragedy of war." Once the men were posed for the photograph, Mark Kamleiter, an attorney and peace activist, was struck by the same symbolism. "These bodies, pale and white, laid out, exposed on the ground resembled, symbolically, the dead that the pending war with Iraq will most certainly produce."

This peace action was organized by Diane Cardin-Kamleiter and Linda Pollini, two Green Party peace activists. It sprang from a growing sense of urgency as this country rushes to war. Despite at large peace demonstrations around the country, the media has largely ignored the steadily growing peace movement. Even the most conservative polls show that almost half of the citizens in this county do not want a war with Iraq, yet the mainstream media has neglected serious treatment of the anti-war sentiment in this country.

Peace activists have been left wondering what will it take to make the press stop, look and listen to their earnest peace message. Maybe the media can ignore 200,000 demonstrating in Washington, D.C., but would they be able to ignore a group of naked men, willing to set aside their modesty in order to get their message out? Once the idea was seized upon there was no stopping it.

What is sought from this daring act? That all those who see these photographs stop and reflect on their meaning and hear the message of Peace.
Add Your Comments

Comments (Hide Comments)
by Peacenik
First we had the female striptease show and now the male striptease show, demonstrating that some in the peace movement seem to think their brains are between their legs. Both are demeaning to all and do not advance the cause of peace. Some of us really prefer private matters be kept private. What is desperately needed in this country is that people read and think more. We are assaulted by this striptease garbage eveywhere; it is called advertising, and it is very anti-intellectual.
by Peacenik
The stupid striptease shows will not stop any war. What will certainly stop this war is a general strike of labor. General strikes for political purposes are commonly used around the world but in the US, any kind of strike is practically unknown. Wars are a political act and have a direct impact on the economy. The workingclass suffers when money is spent on guns instead of butter. That is why a general strike works well and if the ruling class does not stop their wars when confronted with a general strike, the workingclass can and should take state power to put an end to the private profit system that makes war possible. If you would read more and watch less advertising, you would know all this. These ideas have appeared on this website many times.
by ziggy
...there's something to be said for being a little light hearted from time to time. Might I suggest you're being a bit dogmatic? Furthermore, advertising methods should be exploited. That part of your argument doesn't really make much sense. Be dogmatic if you wish, but you'd be better off lightening up.
by Wm Leslie Howard (webmaster [at] lmno47p.org)
The living peace sign is strikingly beautiful to me.

Any and every action for peace works toward peace. All action against peace works against peace.

Spread peace. It's up to you.
by Pasquale Giovanni
Marine(?) County California, Sheesh, get it right.
by Justin Case (jcase [at] msn.com)
Lotta good this'll do !! ??
by Robert Strauss
A pathetic display of narcissism, naiveté, and nonsense. Vote Democrat and we will get more of the same.
by TA
Their buts are REALLY huge! I mean, a LOT bigger than mine.

Whew! I thought I was going to have to put a picture of my butt on this site to disprove how big my "friend" thought it was.
by Theresa Smith
Call me cwazy, but I fail to see how getting nude and forming a peace sign, or the word peace, is an act of courage, Oh, I guess maybe if everybody fought wars in the nude, they'd all be laughing so hard they just couldn't kill each other ! In that case - Bravo, brave men!

Theresa Smith
by Dark Seraph
Primarily for "disturbing the peace" ;).
by Ken
I want to seee close-ups!
by Ken
I want to see close-ups!
by Ken
I want to see close-ups!
by Keith Thompson
I think that it is an artistic statement. More often than not, artistic statements have significant impact. I don't believe there is anything wrong with it.

Of course, there are some who believe that there is something immoral about being naked, but they are just hillbillies or rag heads, and their opinion doesn't really matter anyway.
by Daniel Johnson (gonaked [at] bodyfreedom.org)

What a great idea! Using our bodies to protest and to deliver a unified message is a great way to get attention in a time when we are transitioning from the old world of body-negative values to one of greater body-awareness and greater freedom of expression.

It is interesting to hear other peoples' comments on this simple action. What could be more innocent than the human body in its most natural state? Its kinda scary to see how open people are about their negative views of the body. It is clear that there is such a great need for body-postive outreach.

For more info on how people are using their bodies in positive ways in your community visit b o d y f r e e d o m . o r g and get involved!

by Xen
"A pathetic display of narcissism, naiveté, and nonsense. Vote Democrat and we will get more of the same." said one reply.

Vote Republican and re-elect a president who wouldn't know narcissism if he smoked it and who, if he could spell, would spell both naiveté, and nonsense with capital letters.

These guys me be a bunch of nuts but they're nuts in a green field in Florida not in the White House.
by david
hello everyone,
although it seems to be by a small minority of people, it appears that there is a direct opposite reaction to the republican war machine. the peaceful individuals within america are pushing for freedom from repression. most of the individuals pursuing freedom and peace are doing so in ways that ONLY freak out the establishment or those that created the establishment. i think regular folks in the middle do not care either way about a couple naked men in gainesville. it is good that people protest in ways that they are comfortable with and that do not harm others that might not share their views. this is the new peace movement.

if nudity offends you, than you are an individual who is not at peace with the laws of nature. search and read information available to you throught the internet and you too will discover that it is prudish, closed-minded beliefs that hold you back from enjoying the laws of nature. or maybe you were born with a suit and tie?

i guess people need to feel repressed by their "elected" officials before they start to demonstrate. thanks to all the thoughts shared on this site (pro and con) - i only wish i new about the g-ville peace rally, i would have loved to join in.
by Irene in Ohio
Nice artistic statement of desire for Peace. "Thoughts are things, " and this photograph does present a modern symbol which should prompt the viewer to think about peace. I view the nakedness of the people involved as symbolic of the honesty and vulnerability required for peace within oneself, and, perhaps, also on a different level for world peace. Each and every one of us can send out thoughts of peace and healing to ourselves, others around us, and the whole world. The collective energy of all those thoughts CAN build to make a difference. Think about it!! God bless you all.
by Howard Stern
I suppose it's beautiful when I fart in a microphone.
by Titanus
"this photograph does present a modern symbol which should prompt the viewer to think about peace."

All I can think about when I see this photo is how tight my sphincter gets. These guys are homos of the highest order. Very scary.
by Keith Thompson
Your nom de guerre, Titanus, and your statement suggest that you have a self-loathing for your own homosexual feelings. You need help.
by TA
Something I noticed
by TA • Monday December 30, 2002 at 02:22 PM

that's a different TA, not me.
by Titanus
Oooooo, touchy-touchy. I have a loathing of homosexuality whether it be self-generated thoughts or externally induced. I am disgusted by it. Why does that mean that I need help? It's unnatural behavior.

So is a bunch of guys stripping down and posing for a a photo shoot our in the gardens.
by Baphomet
Hey TightAnus,
Obsessing about what other people do with their pee-pees is unnatural behavior.

Seriously, you should seek therapy.
by Titanus
Who's obsessing? I merely stumbled onto a page where a bunch of gays got a hair up their a-holes (no pun intended) and decided to use the peace movement to shove their blatant homosexuality in my face. It disturbed me and I said so. I don't think I need help for that. I think those queers at the top of this page need the therapy.
by biology 101
Not true. It's extremely common in nature:

See:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?E2B0462F2
by bov
It's sort of funny because at first I saw these and thought, 'cool,' but didn't expect anything. Right wingers will attack it and make jokes, even though its sort of a wonderful thing. And naturally one tends to think - well so what? It was just a gimmick. But now, some time has passed, and it seems to be getting bigger, and just judging from the comments on here, it's bothering a lot of idiots, which means it must be doing something good!

When I saw the even larger one, now with both men and women, and how it's getting better and better, I started to wonder if this might really turn into something . .. . excellent. Will the moron media sideshow decide to frenzy at the sight of the response to this much flesh, and even bite?

You know what would be cool, is if somehow this image could have been constructed from fractals, so that anyone trying to zoom in, would only see the same thing over and over, only smaller and smaller . . .
by Titanus
Someone trying to zoom in on that pic should just be shot. But since that wouldn't be PC, the pic should prob just become like one of those single point singularities, an event horizon on the verge of become a black hole (again no pun) and suck right in on itself until it collapses and disappears from existence completely.

At least that way, the next unsuspecting heterosexual male wouldn't have to be bombarded with this gay orgy.

And I'm pretty tired of the gays claiming animals to be homosexual. That is nothing more than tired, old queer propaganda, none of which can be reasonably proven. Hell, my dog likes to lick. I'm sure if I put my nut sack up to his mouth he'd lick my balls, does that mean he likes performing oral sex on humans?

You perverts need to repent before you all burn in hell.
by Nude
Now you've made it all perfectly clear to us. You are one of those bible thumping hypocrites. Your type of people are the very reason that we almost have a world war on our planet. You preach religous nonsense over logic. You don't believe one book and your enemies don't belive your book so now you try and send each other to hell. Silly asshole. Why don't you get your quick ticket to heaven or hell or where ever the heck it is you believe exists, and go blow yourself up. Just do us nature lovers and life lovers a favor and do it in a field all by yourself. I'll even give you the matches to light the fuse.
by Titanus
is not a rebuttal.

I want you to enlighten me on the scientific methods and logic used to prove an animal is "gay". Even Pavlov trained dogs to salivate at the ringing of a bell.

Maybe with the proper stimulus we can train you to like pussy. Whadaya think?
by Eric
Nessie calling someone else "a hateful, sniveling coward" and "beneath contempt", because the fellow used the anonymity of the internet to speak his mind.

His duplicitous nature knows no bounds!
by Eric
I was just pointing out your obvious duplicity in the hopes you might accept a little constructive criticism and do a little self-reflection.

My bad. I forgot. Next time I wanna insult you, I'll do it on the appropriate thread:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/11/1546540.php

Wouldn't want to be accused of being rude. But obsessed? Paaaleaze. Huge ego ya got there ness.

So far you've accused tightanus of being a sniveling coward that uses the internet for protection (which is exactly what YOU do) and ME of being obsessed with YOU (which we all know that it's the other way around).

So let's add to the list:
Presumptuous
Bitter
Egotistical
and now we've got Duplicitous.

Sound like anyone you know?

But as for this thread, tite-butt-hole is right. Those guys are obviously gay. No big deal, nothing to be ashamed of. Just tell it like it is. So what?
by Des Pros
It is good that war frightens people in this country. Isn't it wonderful that we have the freedom to express our opinions anyway we want here in the U.S.? Even nude? In Iraq, the people there can't do that. They can't even vote as we know it. Saddam Hussein is the only person on the ballot. My fellow members of the Armed Forces are not sitting around salivating at the prospect of killing people. Actually, we who have to do the job are the most reluctant! We do what we must, however, because we cannot afford to let terrorists or rogue governments have access to nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. The world is a nasty place and unfortunately, holding hands and singing has never stopped dictators.

Thanks for letting me express my views. Continue to speak your minds. This is a free country-because of the sacrifice of soldiers from the War of Independence to the War against Terrorism.
by a
And the War on Drugs! Don't forget the War on Drugs! We're all freer because of the US's use of biological and chemical weapons on coca fields and its helping other governments shoot down missionaries.
by Mr. John Stansfield
I'm proud to be an American Standing for Freedom!

It's because of War, that you better than thou peace lovers, have your freedom to express your views.

Personally I think the military ought to use human peace symbols for target practice, since that's what they look like!

I challenge anyone to go tell it to the families that lost loved ones, when Bin Laden sent planes into the Twin Towers, that terrorism should go unpunished.

If your against war, than take your yellow belly asses and get the hell out of America! Because cowards like you don't belong here.
by         
51688-peas.gif"
by bov
Probably Eric is gay and he needs a father figure. Or just one of those. Either way, he only knows how to get close in a destructive way, so he ends up running into problems. It's amazing how when the parent is missing, that we simply seek them out in everyone around us, and often aren't aware that we're doing it. Lot's of the right wingers on here are so transparent that my heart goes out to them. Occassionally I just get furious . . . when they've hit some topic that's important to me, or are attacking me directly, but sometimes it's obvious what's going on that I just feel sad for them.

There's some, though, that are beyond anything I can imagine. STL was one of those. BA used to be, but he's becoming more fleshed out on the portland site. They seem to be on the verge of banning him because he basically lives on there. Poor guy - probably paid to be there and has no other life. And the nazis with their own sites are also unfathomable.

But this thread is amazing, just to see people's real reactions to the nakedness, to the complete vulnerability of these activists - and yet, also out of reach.
by fetal environment

UC Berkeley psychologist finds evidence that male hormones in the womb affect sexual orientation

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2000/03/03-29-2000a.html

Homosexuality in men and number of older brothers AUTHORBlanchard R, Bogaert AF REFERENCEAm J Psychiatry 1996; 153: 27-31 PLACE OF STUDY Canada ABSTRACT This study investigated whether homosexual men have a lighter mean birth order than heterosexual men primarily because they have more older brothers or because they have more older siblings of both sexes. 302 homosexual men were individually matched on years of birth with an equal number of heterosexual men. Each completed an anonymous questionnaire concerning family background and other biodemographic information. Homosexuality was positively correlated with the proband's number of older brothers but not with older sisters, younger brothers, younger sisters, or paternal age at the time of the proband's birth. Each additional older brother increased the odds of homosexuality by 33%. These results restrict the range of possible theories of the birth order phenomenon. The point is to explain not only why older brothers increase the probability of homosexuality in later born males but also why older sisters neither enhance this effect nor counteract it.
by Sheepdog
Mr. John Stansfield...
-”I challenge anyone to go tell it to the families that lost loved ones, when Bin Laden sent planes into the Twin Towers, that terrorism should go unpunished.”-
This is tiresome.
Also rather pathetic in it’s incipient stupidity. Prove the above statement. The U.S. government hasn’t. What they have proven is
their ability to smother any kind of investigation into this event.
by Eric
I don't know who is gay or who isn't. Frankly, I couldn't care less. Gays are as insignificant as anarchists. No one really cares about them and their silly little insignificant agendas, except of course for themselves.

That's why they have to squeak so loud to get any attention. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I do know that stripping down with a bunch of other guys for a photo of a peace symbol is a gay action. I'd bet a thousand dollars that the majority of those guys are gay or bi-sexual. There might be one idiotic liberal in the bunch that is straight, having been unsuspectingly duped into posing for the camera by his queer friends so that could size up his pee-pee. But like I said, I couldn't care less.

by Eric
And as for "thanking" sf imc goes, that's a laugh and half! You guys should be thanking *me* for all the work I do around here. Hours and hours of tedious research and efforts go into my every post. Like Wesley Snipes said in 'White Men Can't Jump':

"It's hard god-damned work to make you look so bad!"

So, c'mon now. All at once. Repeat after me,

"THANKS ERIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Thank sf imc. HAR! Funny.

The checks in the mail.
by a
Mr. John Stansfield said "I challenge anyone to go tell it to the families that lost loved ones, when Bin Laden sent planes into the Twin Towers, that terrorism should go unpunished. If your [sic] against war...."

Has it occurred to you that there is a position between these; that one can be for punishing terrorists but against war?
by bov
"for punishing terrorists"

You mean like the moron regime in DC? Yeah, I hear ya. And I'm against war, too.

I say impeachment is as good a punishment as any. But it would have to be the whole lot of them, not just Bushmoron. Otherwise we get Cheneymoron, and that's even worse.
by bov
"The only presidents in history to ever have been impeached were both Democrats."

Impeachment or resignation, dems or repubs, out with the lot of them.
by bov
"offer no reasonable alternatives"

I don't offer alternatives, I work to make them happen.

Only one party is growing significatnly in membership in this country, and it ain't the republicrats.
by bov
Thanks for this! I think it's wonderful that all the independent and alternative parties are busting at the seams as people switch.

In NJ they were starting to team up to get stuff done, and it worked, for getting into the debates, etc. One of the things they talked about was boycotting all the sponsors of stations that wouldn't cover them in televised debates. Those types of ideas will grow and grow, as more and more flee the parties that are looting and attacking the world as fast as they can.
by bov
Thanks then, I won't. So what's on TV?
by Waterany1@aol.com (Waterany1 [at] aol.com)
I live near Gainesville, and would be interested in participating, should the group decide to stage another artistic expression. Please email me at Waterany1 [at] aol.com
by Ffutal
"A group of Marin County women plan to march naked through San Francisco on Jan. 18 to protest the possibility of war with Iraq," the Associated Press reports from San Rafael, Calif., the county seat:

"One hundred thousand women and men will strip on Jan. 18 in Washington D.C. and San Francisco for the huge national peace march in protest of the stripping of constitutional rights by a government intent on war," said Donna Sheehan, founder of Unreasonable Women Baring Witness in Point Reyes Station.

"Our message to women all over the world is be bold, be courageous, be vulnerable for peace."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/a/2003/01/03/marin.DTL

It would be easy to scoff at Donna Sheehan and her fellow bare-naked ladies, but it would be wrong. Not only do I applaud her courageous vulnerability, but from now on I won't take anyone seriously who expresses "antiwar" sentiments without getting naked.
by bov
"from now on I won't take anyone seriously who expresses "antiwar" sentiments without getting naked."

So you'll be joining the march then?
by warm coat
I know I won't, but I, too, won't take you or any other war protesters seriously unless you are protesting naked. Clothed protesters will be disregarded as not truly committed to the cause.
by Dirk McGirk
But I will be there with my camcorder! I'm planning on making a video like that "Girls Gone Wild!" tape that's making those guys millions.

I'll call it "Liberals Gone Wild!" Oh Yeah! I'm gonna be rich baby!
by oh joy
Another mental giant joins the chat.
by lisa
your extreme homophobia is showing - did you just come by for a look??
by lisa
you are a sad, sad person, titanus. I hope somebody somewhere loves you, because you are definitely in need of a little love. Especially with a name like that.
by lisa
mr stansfield, i lost my father to war. You have absolutely no right to call peace-loving people cowards. He volunteered for and fought in a war that was misguided, but he didn't die in vain and he left a beautiful family behind. I miss my father every day. I am not a pacifist, but this war is WRONG. Fighting for oil is WRONG - no discussion necessary. My nephew is now in the Persian Gulf - is my family to lose him, too, in some misguided conflagration? I pray God not -he also has a wife and two children, just like my father did. War has a very human price, Mr. Stansfield. All the rhetoric in the world doesn't replace a missing father or mother. And I found your little "cartoon" very disturbing. Is killing really a joke to you? Do you teach your children this, too? No wonder the world is such a hateful place.
by Starwind
Each of us finds our own way to make a statement about those things we feel passionate about. For some, the statement of these "men for peace" is outrageous, unacceptable, disgusting. For others, it is artistic, moving, uplifting.

The conservative way teaches that the human form should be hidden from view, kept in dark rooms. Yet those who are in tune with nature understand that nudity is a part of the natural world.

The "men of peace" have made a statement, one which is essentially telling us that the physical baring of their bodies represents a baring of their soul to stand for that which they believe. To stand naked before the world is to expose all of self, to strip away the conventions of society. It touches the essential person, unhidden. These men have essentially told us there is nothing more important to them than peace.

To bring homosexual and homophobic commentary into this discussion is to reduce it to the mores of society as they are put forth by those who are in seats of power. It is a travesty to attempt to censor this statement with those mores.

When it comes down to it, we are all naked beneath those clothes we wear each day. Some have the courage to step forward and reveal all to make a statement. The rest continue to hide behind their garments and their words.
by Titanus
You're just heterophobic.

Everybody gets in such an uproar when I say that these guys are just being "in your face" queers, but no one disputes the obvious truth of it.

Only homos would get together and strip down for something like this. Period. End of story. I don't want to hear another word about it. So shut up already. Unless you casn prove otherwise then you're just smaking off at the lips and saying nothing.

So just quit making yourselves look stupid.
by Bob from Florida
Hi. My name is Bob, from Gainesville Florida. I'm the third guy from the top in the middle row. And yes, I'm gay. So what? In fact, most of us in that picture are gay. We're all good friends and we've all decided to come out against the war. Who care's what you people think anyway.
by PEOPLE THINK
"who cares what people think."

Exactly. Go ahead and say and do whatever you will. It will make you feel better, but it won't change a thing, because who cares what you think. etc., etc.,etc.
by OH, BROTHER
I have nothing against gays. Live and let live. But for crying out loud, what the hell good toward protesting anything is taking your clothes off? Do you think that when Bush hears about this, he is going to see some light, and call back the troops, and end hostilities?How about picking up litter for peace? How about changing spark plugs for peace? How about working algebra problems for peace? How about cleaning a carpet for peace?
There are a million good reasons to take clothes off, but this kind of peace isn't one of them. Go ahead and do it if you want to, It makes you look like some kind of surrealist idiot when you attack a problem with a means nowhere nearly connected to the problem. Do something constructive or destructive, but, for crying out loud, make it relate. Sheesh!
by like what?
Tear down defense plants and build day care centers, schools and affordable housing where they stood?

Hey, maybe your onto something here. When do we start?
by Friedrich (dmthieme [at] prodigy.net)
This probably will not change any minds in Washington. But that is a lost cause at this point anyway. At least it is making the world press pay attention to what the American people really want. And our own press will eventually cover it because of the sex.
by SGT Jeffery damon Monroe-ALNG (jdmonroe99 [at] hotmail.com)
These Peace protest are just typical liberal symbolism. Just a bunch of old hippies from the 60,s reliving their youth and just cant get over vietnam. You guys call GWB a terrorist and a bully. But I bet you cant protest in Iraq,Iran, Libiya,syria,North Korea, shall I go on. So what if it is about oil. Oil drives the economy and military might of this country and the world. These are not war protestors,but anti-american anti-capitalism protestors.
by Observer
Looks like a big circle jerk to me.
by born naked
'Observer" looks like a little square jerk to me.
by ALASTAIR BERRY (scotof8 [at] hotmail.com)

I am an old gay guy -- I have seen many things -- but it is obvious that WE ARE WINNING !!
Kiltie
by Tailspin
If only Saddam would quietly go into retirement (and take his ideotic sons with him), there would be no need to go to war with Iraq. The issue is not if Tyrant for Life Hussain has weapons of mass destruction, because the world knows he does, the issue is Saddam himself, who absolutley must be removed so that democracy can be established in the region. Viva la revolucion!
If you believe that, I have a great deal on a bridge for you. You're gonna love it.
by bushisright
Does anyone really think that President Bush will look at these naked people and think "Hmm, they're right, we should just ignore Saddam's chemical and biological weapons. After all, they spelled a word in the grass, they must know more than I do." Get real! If the U.S. does not act soon, it is the world that will be coming to us for help when Saddam uses the weapons that everyone knows he has.
by dave
i'm certainly willing to concede that naked people in a peace sign doesnt have a chance in hell of influencing the warmongers in washington, but i'd rather be associated with the folks in the peace sign (be they gay, straight, whatever) than the kind of folks that i see in support of going to war on iraq. to wit: i observed a mini-pickup with the classy and intellectual "bomb saddam" bumpersticker clearly visible in the rear window--AND AN UPSIDE DOWN CRUCIFIX CLEARLY VISIBLE HANGING FROM THE REARVIEW! i mean, c'mon, everybody can believe what they want, but satanists are all for war as far as i can see. no wonder the middle east slanders the mostly decent folks of america by calling our country "the great satan." with friends like that and the sheer ignorance neccessary to remain blind to the facts, why not be pro-war?
by Nolan
Innocent people have been dying in Iraq for years and they are dying now. People are dying. Kids are dying. Bush and Carlyle, soon the oil companies etc. are profiting:

1. Saddam's CIA supported rise to power and gassing of Kurds.

2. Ten years of sanctions (1 million+ dead)

3. Our two "wars" against Iraq. There is no such thing as a surgical strike expecially when you're bombing an urban area.

Saddam Hussein: The US has continued to supply him with weapons of mass destruction (chemical and biological) up until the day before the first Gulf War. WE pulled the weapons inspectors out of his country right before the first Gulf War. Bush Sr.'s Secretary of State essentially gave him permission to invade Kuwait eight or nine days before the first Gulf War thruogh a press conference during which she said the US has no stake in the fate of Kuwait. And on top of all that there was The Highway of Death. Look into it.
by Alastair Berry (SCOTof8 [at] hotmail.com)


Today(Jan6 2006) Bush surrounded himself, in the White House,for a 'photo-op' with about 30 superannuated Secretaries of State and executives to discuss Iraq policy.

Rule#1 in Management is concentrate responsibility when rewards and medals are on the table BUT DELEGATE FAR AND WIDE WHEN THE SHIT IS ABOUT TO HIT THE FAN.

It is obvious that the WhiteHouse now considers the IRAQ debacle to be 'unwinable'!
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